New Version of Tasman Variometer Firmware Available

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

Tasman has released a new version of the firmware that runs in the V1000
variometer. The new version has a different sink tone than previous
versions. The sink tone now gets lower in pitch with lower sink rates. The
climb tone remains the same as it has always been with increasing pitch with
higher climb rates. The previous versions had a sink tone that increased in
pitch with higher sink rates. I found the old sink tone to be less than
intuitive while flying so I requested the change. They made the change
quickly. I was very impressed with the support from Tasman! All the units
in my stock now have the new sink tone. Upgrades to the new version are
also available. You can see details or order the upgrade from my web site.

http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/tasman.htm

I'm sure that someone will feel that I'm posting a commercial post here -
which I've been told is a no no. I believe that most owners of Tasman
variometers will be glad that I announced the availability of this new
version.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

[Tim Mara]

then why do you continue to do it....
why don't you simply contact your customers directly
tim

Wings & Wheels
www.wingsandwheels.com

"Paul Remde" > wrote in message
news:9A83f.479895$xm3.290374@attbi_s21...

> I'm sure that someone will feel that I'm posting a commercial post here -
> which I've been told is a no no. I believe that most owners of Tasman
> variometers will be glad that I announced the availability of this new
> version.
>
> Good Soaring,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

[Martin Gregorie]

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:15:53 -0400, Tim Mara wrote:

I for one am pleased to know this. I'm thinking about fitting either a B40
or a Tasmin as secondary vario and this is useful input for me.

> then why do you continue to do it.... why don't you simply contact your
> customers directly tim
>
> Wings & Wheels
> www.wingsandwheels.com
>
> "Paul Remde" > wrote in message
> news:9A83f.479895$xm3.290374@attbi_s21...
>
>> I'm sure that someone will feel that I'm posting a commercial post here
>> - which I've been told is a no no. I believe that most owners of
>> Tasman variometers will be glad that I announced the availability of
>> this new version.
>>
>> Good Soaring,
>>
>> Paul Remde
>> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Pete Brown]

Boys:

I am not a customer of Paul's but I appreciate his
announcement. If he limited the announcement to his
customers, I wouldn't the information as quickly or at all.

Announcements like this are not an annoyance, they are
public service. Its a good example of why the free flow of
information on the net is so important.


Pete



Tim Mara wrote:
> then why do you continue to do it....
> why don't you simply contact your customers directly
> tim
>
> Wings & Wheels
> www.wingsandwheels.com
>
> "Paul Remde" > wrote in message
> news:9A83f.479895$xm3.290374@attbi_s21...
>
>
>>I'm sure that someone will feel that I'm posting a commercial post here -
>>which I've been told is a no no. I believe that most owners of Tasman
>>variometers will be glad that I announced the availability of this new
>>version.
>>
>>Good Soaring,
>>
>>Paul Remde
>>Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
>
>

--

Peter D. Brown
http://home.gci.net/~pdb/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/

[Greg Arnold]

Yes, except for postings like Paul's on RAS, there really is no way to
learn about new soaring products. Rather than muzzling Paul, I think
other vendors (such as Tim) should feel free to also start posting this
type of information, as long as it is posted once for information,
rather than repeatedly as a commercial.

Also, say that I had been looking for a vario, I had just talked to
Paul, and as a result posted "Hey, guess what, I just talked to Paul,
and the Tasman vario now has a new sink sound." I am guessing that post
would be OK. Why is the same post not OK when Paul is the one to post it?



Pete Brown wrote:
> Boys:
>
> I am not a customer of Paul's but I appreciate his announcement. If he
> limited the announcement to his customers, I wouldn't the information as
> quickly or at all.
>
> Announcements like this are not an annoyance, they are public service.
> Its a good example of why the free flow of information on the net is so
> important.
>
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> Tim Mara wrote:
>
>> then why do you continue to do it....
>> why don't you simply contact your customers directly
>> tim
>>
>> Wings & Wheels
>> www.wingsandwheels.com
>>
>> "Paul Remde" > wrote in message
>> news:9A83f.479895$xm3.290374@attbi_s21...
>>
>>
>>> I'm sure that someone will feel that I'm posting a commercial post
>>> here - which I've been told is a no no. I believe that most owners
>>> of Tasman variometers will be glad that I announced the availability
>>> of this new version.
>>>
>>> Good Soaring,
>>>
>>> Paul Remde
>>> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

[[email protected]]

I always find this type of advertising thread rather amusing. Almost
all businesses in the Soaring Industry respect the charter of the RAS.
How would you like all commercial businesses associated with Soaring to
post on the RAS with the disclaimer that ?

I'm sure that someone will feel that I'm posting a commercial post here
which I've been told is a no no. I believe that most owners or users
of My Special Soaring Product or service will be glad that I announced
the availability of this new version of my product or service.

Advertiser in:

Soaring Magazine 36

Soaring Australia 15

Glidding Kiwi 7

Sailplane & Gliding 59

Maybe my count is not exactly correct but that would be approximately
117 posts. Then lets add the

Manufactures 50 maybe more just a guess.

Now let get even more ridiculous!

Real Estate Agents in soaring areas 150 Maybe multilply this by 10
for all new listings and the agents I forgot to count. 1500. We could
have our own RAS multiple listing service just for soaring areas.

Total number ??????? approximately maybe many more!

I am sure that several people that frequent the RAS would find
something that is informative and a service in a post by each of the
above.

Many of us don't.

Now the question. Should I really click the post button?

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

Greg Arnold wrote:
> Yes, except for postings like Paul's on RAS, there really is no way to
> learn about new soaring products. Rather than muzzling Paul, I think
> other vendors (such as Tim) should feel free to also start posting this
> type of information, as long as it is posted once for information,
> rather than repeatedly as a commercial.
>
> Also, say that I had been looking for a vario, I had just talked to
> Paul, and as a result posted "Hey, guess what, I just talked to Paul,
> and the Tasman vario now has a new sink sound." I am guessing that post
> would be OK. Why is the same post not OK when Paul is the one to post it?
>
>
>
> Pete Brown wrote:
> > Boys:
> >
> > I am not a customer of Paul's but I appreciate his announcement. If he
> > limited the announcement to his customers, I wouldn't the information as
> > quickly or at all.
> >
> > Announcements like this are not an annoyance, they are public service.
> > Its a good example of why the free flow of information on the net is so
> > important.
> >
> >
> > Pete
> >
> >
> >
> > Tim Mara wrote:
> >
> >> then why do you continue to do it....
> >> why don't you simply contact your customers directly
> >> tim
> >>
> >> Wings & Wheels
> >> www.wingsandwheels.com
> >>
> >> "Paul Remde" > wrote in message
> >> news:9A83f.479895$xm3.290374@attbi_s21...
> >>
> >>
> >>> I'm sure that someone will feel that I'm posting a commercial post
> >>> here - which I've been told is a no no. I believe that most owners
> >>> of Tasman variometers will be glad that I announced the availability
> >>> of this new version.
> >>>
> >>> Good Soaring,
> >>>
> >>> Paul Remde
> >>> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

What cracks me up about all this is that I did one simple note which has
prompted many, many more notes. Which is more annoying, the original note,
or the many negative notes afterward? I would guess that the ratio of
negative notes to my original post is 10 to 1. The negative posts impact
the readability of this newsgroup much more than the single post I did.

Now I'm sure there will be many negative posts knocking this note. I dare
you all to not post anything in response. I just dare you. But I guess
that would be impossible for those with strong opinions who feel the need to
post those opinions every time I make an informational posting to this
group. In case you haven't figured it out yet, the negative notes will not
change me from doing occasional informational/commercial notes. I do them
pretty rarely so the impact is extremely small. So fire away, but all you
are doing is impacting this newsgroup negatively to a greater extent than I
am.

I have a suggestion that I know you can't and won't follow - Ignore my rare
notes and don't post negative notes after them. I know, that would be
impossible to do. "But Paul, I must post negative comments about your
notes. I just can't help it. It's for the greater good... What you're
doing is wrong according to some obscure rule that most people don't care
about."

I guess we are all entitled to our opinions. You know mine and I know
yours. So let's stop messing up this newsgroup with them.

Oops... now I guess this note makes it a total of 2 notes from me on this
thread...

Paul Remde

"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
>>all businesses in the Soaring Industry respect the charter of the RAS.
>>How would you like all commercial businesses associated with Soaring to
>>post on the RAS with the disclaimer that ?
>
> Why limit it to soaring? There are lots of non-soaring
> related businesses that would love to post. Or how about
> those who sell diapers to glider pilots for those long
> flights - the semi-related products?
>
> The charter prohibits commercial posts - that's true of all
> rec.* groups except those with charters that explicitly
> permit them. The terms of service of all ISP's prohibit
> such posts, or they are denied a Usenet feed.
>
>
>
> T o d d P a t t i s t - "WH" Ventus C
> (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

[Bruce]

Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:15:53 -0400, Tim Mara wrote:
>
> I for one am pleased to know this. I'm thinking about fitting either a B40
> or a Tasmin as secondary vario and this is useful input for me.
>
>
>>then why do you continue to do it.... why don't you simply contact your
>>customers directly tim
>>
>>Wings & Wheels
>>www.wingsandwheels.com
>>
>>"Paul Remde" > wrote in message
>>news:9A83f.479895$xm3.290374@attbi_s21...
>>
>>
>>>I'm sure that someone will feel that I'm posting a commercial post here
>>>- which I've been told is a no no. I believe that most owners of
>>>Tasman variometers will be glad that I announced the availability of
>>>this new version.
>>>
>>>Good Soaring,
>>>
>>>Paul Remde
>>>Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
>
Hi Martin

We looked at the B40 vs Tasman recently for our club ships. In the end we
decided on the Tasman because it has no moving parts, and has the built in
averager.

So far we are extremely happy with the Tasmans, and I can recommend them and
their service. They contacted us directly about the firmware upgrades, and
shipped the chips to us at their cost to upgrade the varios we have.

The Borgelts are also outstanding instruments, and I may consider moving up to a
B50 in my single seater. For now the V1000M gives me such good information I
doubt I would benefit from the B50. If I ever get my PDA installed this might
change.
For now my setup is a winter mechanical vario - no power needed to soar. +
V1000M set to rapid response + 20s average. It is worth having just for the
average. No problems with legibility on the LCD screen, in bright sunlight, and
with/without polarising glasses.

By the way - the firmware upgrades are one of the things that decided us on the
Tasman rather than the B40. You get an instrument with virtually unlimited
development capability. No mechanical stuff you can't change.

--
Bruce Greeff
Std Cirrus #57
I'm no-T at the address above.

[Martin Gregorie]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:54:22 +0200, Bruce wrote:

......

> We looked at the B40 vs Tasman recently for our club ships. In the end we
> decided on the Tasman because it has no moving parts, and has the built in
> averager.
>
I've flown with a Tasmin once and liked it: the new vario down noise
sounds like an improvement.

The major advantage of the B.40 is its backup 9v battery: I think its
really important that a backup vario can operate with a dead main battery.
The Tasman literature mentions the possibility of using a backup battery
too, but its either well-hidden or absent from the installation and user
manual. I couldn't find a clear reference in the price list either despite
it being quoted as an option.

Do you use backup batteries with your Tasmans?

BTW, I have an SDI C4 that I intend to retain as my main vario.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Paul Remde]

Hi Martin,

The use of a 9 V battery for backup power for the Tasman is shown in the
installation manual here:
http://www.tasmaninstruments.com/documents/v1000_installation_b.PDF

I have recently asked the manufacturer to verify as what voltage the audio
stops functioning. That point is a little unclear in the manuals.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
dress...
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:54:22 +0200, Bruce wrote:
>
> .....
>
>> We looked at the B40 vs Tasman recently for our club ships. In the end we
>> decided on the Tasman because it has no moving parts, and has the built
>> in
>> averager.
>>
> I've flown with a Tasmin once and liked it: the new vario down noise
> sounds like an improvement.
>
> The major advantage of the B.40 is its backup 9v battery: I think its
> really important that a backup vario can operate with a dead main battery.
> The Tasman literature mentions the possibility of using a backup battery
> too, but its either well-hidden or absent from the installation and user
> manual. I couldn't find a clear reference in the price list either despite
> it being quoted as an option.
>
> Do you use backup batteries with your Tasmans?
>
> BTW, I have an SDI C4 that I intend to retain as my main vario.
>
> --
> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org |
>

[Martin Gregorie]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:21:50 +0000, Paul Remde wrote:

Hi Paul,

Here's what I find confusing:

- the PK312 aux. power supply still doesn't appear on the mfr's web site
other than as a block on the installation diagram. No web site, not even
yours, has any details of its internal functions, battery type or price.

- the specs. refer to different 'battery low' alarm points: as the PK312
apparently connects to the vario by the same two wires as the main battery
I'd like to know just how the Vario knows which battery it is being
supplied by.

I very much like the idea of a solid state device without a mechanical
display; I just wish I knew more about the PK312.


> Hi Martin,
>
> The use of a 9 V battery for backup power for the Tasman is shown in the
> installation manual here:
> http://www.tasmaninstruments.com/documents/v1000_installation_b.PDF
>
> I have recently asked the manufacturer to verify as what voltage the
> audio stops functioning. That point is a little unclear in the manuals.
>
> Good Soaring,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>
> "Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
> dress...
>> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:54:22 +0200, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> .....
>>
>>> We looked at the B40 vs Tasman recently for our club ships. In the end
>>> we decided on the Tasman because it has no moving parts, and has the
>>> built in
>>> averager.
>>>
>> I've flown with a Tasmin once and liked it: the new vario down noise
>> sounds like an improvement.
>>
>> The major advantage of the B.40 is its backup 9v battery: I think its
>> really important that a backup vario can operate with a dead main
>> battery. The Tasman literature mentions the possibility of using a
>> backup battery too, but its either well-hidden or absent from the
>> installation and user manual. I couldn't find a clear reference in the
>> price list either despite it being quoted as an option.
>>
>> Do you use backup batteries with your Tasmans?
>>
>> BTW, I have an SDI C4 that I intend to retain as my main vario.
>>
>> --
>> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
>> gregorie. | Essex, UK
>> org |
>>
>>

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Paul Remde]

Hi Martin,

Those are very good questions. Your timing is impeccable. Just this
morning I e-mailed similar questions to the manufacturer, added the PK312
power pack to my web site, and ordered some of the units for my stock. I'll
know more about it soon and will respond to this better at that time.

It is my understanding that the PK312 is a battery box for a single 9V
alkaline battery. I'm assuming that it must connect to the vario using a
different + wire than is used for the 12V battery. A single 4-wire phone
style cable is used for 12V power and common, 9V power and the speaker. If
they didn't use separate wires for 9V and 12V power the 9V battery would be
damaged by 12+ volts.

The biggest question I have is at what voltage the audio stops functioning.
It is unclear to me in the manual.

The Tasman has been a very popular product. I have not received any
complaints about the units I've sold. I also like that it has an averager
display on the face of the unit.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com



"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
dress...
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:21:50 +0000, Paul Remde wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Here's what I find confusing:
>
> - the PK312 aux. power supply still doesn't appear on the mfr's web site
> other than as a block on the installation diagram. No web site, not even
> yours, has any details of its internal functions, battery type or price.
>
> - the specs. refer to different 'battery low' alarm points: as the PK312
> apparently connects to the vario by the same two wires as the main battery
> I'd like to know just how the Vario knows which battery it is being
> supplied by.
>
> I very much like the idea of a solid state device without a mechanical
> display; I just wish I knew more about the PK312.
>
>
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> The use of a 9 V battery for backup power for the Tasman is shown in the
>> installation manual here:
>> http://www.tasmaninstruments.com/documents/v1000_installation_b.PDF
>>
>> I have recently asked the manufacturer to verify as what voltage the
>> audio stops functioning. That point is a little unclear in the manuals.
>>
>> Good Soaring,
>>
>> Paul Remde
>> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>>
>> "Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
>> dress...
>>> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:54:22 +0200, Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>> .....
>>>
>>>> We looked at the B40 vs Tasman recently for our club ships. In the end
>>>> we decided on the Tasman because it has no moving parts, and has the
>>>> built in
>>>> averager.
>>>>
>>> I've flown with a Tasmin once and liked it: the new vario down noise
>>> sounds like an improvement.
>>>
>>> The major advantage of the B.40 is its backup 9v battery: I think its
>>> really important that a backup vario can operate with a dead main
>>> battery. The Tasman literature mentions the possibility of using a
>>> backup battery too, but its either well-hidden or absent from the
>>> installation and user manual. I couldn't find a clear reference in the
>>> price list either despite it being quoted as an option.
>>>
>>> Do you use backup batteries with your Tasmans?
>>>
>>> BTW, I have an SDI C4 that I intend to retain as my main vario.
>>>
>>> --
>>> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
>>> gregorie. | Essex, UK
>>> org |
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org |
>

[Mike Borgelt]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:54:22 +0200, Bruce > wrote:


>Hi Martin
>
>We looked at the B40 vs Tasman recently for our club ships. In the end we
>decided on the Tasman because it has no moving parts, and has the built in
>averager.

The B40 has always had a built in averager. Just push the button on
the front. The button even has a remote circuit you can use to to
mount it on the stick etc. Digital averager also available and you can
put that up close to your line of sight or just above the ASI.
>
>So far we are extremely happy with the Tasmans, and I can recommend them and
>their service. They contacted us directly about the firmware upgrades, and
>shipped the chips to us at their cost to upgrade the varios we have.
>
>The Borgelts are also outstanding instruments, and I may consider moving up to a
>B50 in my single seater. For now the V1000M gives me such good information I
>doubt I would benefit from the B50. If I ever get my PDA installed this might
>change.


Just to clear up any confusion , the B50 and Tasman are not
comparable. The B40 and Tasman are somewhat comparable as neither has
an airspeed sensor, unlike the B50 which does.

Having an airspeed sensor lets you compute the expected sink rate at
any given airspeed for display of netto(airmass) vario or relative
netto (see our website for article on Basic Sailplane Instruments
which explains these terms for anyone not familiar with them and tells
you why they are advantageous) as well as Macready speed to fly
information in simplified "fly faster/fly slower" format and also
provides True Air Speed(TAS) information to glide computers which
gives useful information like real time wind component when used with
the GPS groundspeed.

I am surprised that the Tasman audio was the way it was for so long.
We had that in the B10 vario in 1978 and changed it at customer
request within a few months to the present system and have kept that
ever since for climb/sink mode.


>For now my setup is a winter mechanical vario - no power needed to soar.

Given the proliferation of electronic equipment in sailplane
cockpits(computers/GPS/loggers, electronic varios) you really want an
assured 12 volt power supply anyway. This is easy to achieve with two
batteries used intelligently and for the paranoid a back up supply for
the standby vario. (it isn't bad to be paranoid about this)

Putting capacity flasks and mechanical vane type varios in the TE
system is a bad idea for many reasons particularly the effect on
responses of any electronic pressure sensor based instruments. These
effects can be mitigated by splitting the TE line back at the back of
the seat pan or further aft and running two TE lines to the instrument
panel. I still see installations where this has not been done. The
only time you can do without this is with two pressure sensor type
instruments. Getting rid of mechanical instruments makes installation
easier. I haven't had a mechanical vario since 1979 or a capacity
flask since 1983. I've never run out of vario (except when I've had to
pull mine out of the panel to sell to someone in a hurry - one B40
lasted exactly 30 minutes after installation).


+
>V1000M set to rapid response + 20s average. It is worth having just for the
>average. No problems with legibility on the LCD screen, in bright sunlight, and
>with/without polarising glasses.

We looked at this for the planned B30 system in 1986. That never got
beyond the planning stage. as I considered a display resolution for
the vario pointer of 0.4 knots was just too terrible. The Tasman has 1
knot I believe.

LCD's do make for a cheap display though.

The automotive industry has come to our aid with the stepper motor
driven pointer. These are used in all the BMW's, Rolls Royce etc cars.
Interesting that the auto industry hasn't embraced LCD pointers.
>
>By the way - the firmware upgrades are one of the things that decided us on the
>Tasman rather than the B40. You get an instrument with virtually unlimited
>development capability. No mechanical stuff you can't change.

You are very restricted by the crude resolution of the display and the
lack of airspeed sensor. The Tasman, like the B40, is just a simple
TE vario with audio and averager. There isn't really much you can do
with that which is why we have continued that in to the new B400 which
is shorter than the B40 it replaces, uses a stepper driven pointer
with extremely high resolution, has the same kind of averager as the
B40 with remote push button and optional remotely mounted full time
digital averager display now available in two sizes and a new optional
"competition " climb audio (you can still select classic B40 style)
and a green LED to tell you when you are climbing faster than the
current running average i.e. "things are getting better" which is also
given by the audio in "competition" mode.
We expect to ship the first B400's next week.

The B50 has been replaced by the B500 which is now shipping in small
quantities (and many thanks to our beta testers for your faith and
patience) and we're ramping up the production rate.

The B500 is an advanced vario system with airspeed sensor and has
plenty of room for later expansion as it was designed that way.
Software upgrades will be by download from our website and
customisation is by hooking it to a PC.

Check it out (and the Basic Instruments article and others) on the
website.
www.borgeltinstruments.com

Mike Borgelt

[Bruce]

From unfortunate personal experience the audio cuts out at around 9.5V, and the
whole plot dies somewhere <8V. Quite outstanding - my .

Note to self - NEVER fly with a suspect battery again.

Cheers
Bruce

Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> The use of a 9 V battery for backup power for the Tasman is shown in the
> installation manual here:
> http://www.tasmaninstruments.com/documents/v1000_installation_b.PDF
>
> I have recently asked the manufacturer to verify as what voltage the audio
> stops functioning. That point is a little unclear in the manuals.
>
> Good Soaring,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>
> "Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
> dress...
>
>>On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:54:22 +0200, Bruce wrote:
>>
>>.....
>>
>>
>>>We looked at the B40 vs Tasman recently for our club ships. In the end we
>>>decided on the Tasman because it has no moving parts, and has the built
>>>in
>>>averager.
>>>
>>
>>I've flown with a Tasmin once and liked it: the new vario down noise
>>sounds like an improvement.
>>
>>The major advantage of the B.40 is its backup 9v battery: I think its
>>really important that a backup vario can operate with a dead main battery.
>>The Tasman literature mentions the possibility of using a backup battery
>>too, but its either well-hidden or absent from the installation and user
>>manual. I couldn't find a clear reference in the price list either despite
>>it being quoted as an option.
>>
>>Do you use backup batteries with your Tasmans?
>>
>>BTW, I have an SDI C4 that I intend to retain as my main vario.
>>
>>--
>>martin@ | Martin Gregorie
>>gregorie. | Essex, UK
>>org |
>>
>
>
>


--
Bruce Greeff
Std Cirrus #57
I'm no-T at the address above.

[Bruce]

Hi Mike

I have the highest respect for your knowledge and the products you make. My
apologies if I was not clear in my explanation of our reasoning.

Mike Borgelt wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:54:22 +0200, Bruce > wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hi Martin
>>
>>We looked at the B40 vs Tasman recently for our club ships. In the end we
>>decided on the Tasman because it has no moving parts, and has the built in
>>averager.
>
>
> The B40 has always had a built in averager. Just push the button on
> the front. The button even has a remote circuit you can use to to
> mount it on the stick etc. Digital averager also available and you can
> put that up close to your line of sight or just above the ASI.
>
No argument, we just like the always on averager. And that we can thus see both
instantaneous and average. This is particularly useful with the second seat
repeater. (With the Tasman we know that both pilots are seeing the same
information) Also had a safety consideration , in that there is no need to get a
finger on a remote button - therefore less time with eyes in the cockpit.

>>So far we are extremely happy with the Tasmans, and I can recommend them and
>>their service. They contacted us directly about the firmware upgrades, and
>>shipped the chips to us at their cost to upgrade the varios we have.
>>
>>The Borgelts are also outstanding instruments, and I may consider moving up to a
>>B50 in my single seater. For now the V1000M gives me such good information I
>>doubt I would benefit from the B50. If I ever get my PDA installed this might
>>change.
>
>
>
> Just to clear up any confusion , the B50 and Tasman are not
> comparable. The B40 and Tasman are somewhat comparable as neither has
> an airspeed sensor, unlike the B50 which does.
>
My apologies if I was unclear. The B50 is clearly in a different class - and
provides things that the Tasman cannot. I did consider the two for my own
installation, and decided on the Tasman for the sake of simplicity and
commonality with the club trainer.

Conversely, having just flown a contest for the first time I can see the
advantage of a more advanced vario like the B50. The reason I would probably not
benefit from the more advanced instrument is due to lack of ability to exploit it.


> Having an airspeed sensor lets you compute the expected sink rate at
> any given airspeed for display of netto(airmass) vario or relative
> netto (see our website for article on Basic Sailplane Instruments
> which explains these terms for anyone not familiar with them and tells
> you why they are advantageous) as well as Macready speed to fly
> information in simplified "fly faster/fly slower" format and also
> provides True Air Speed(TAS) information to glide computers which
> gives useful information like real time wind component when used with
> the GPS groundspeed.
>

> I am surprised that the Tasman audio was the way it was for so long.
> We had that in the B10 vario in 1978 and changed it at customer
> request within a few months to the present system and have kept that
> ever since for climb/sink mode.
>
>
Second thing we did with the Tasman's was to turn the "down" sound off...
>
>>For now my setup is a winter mechanical vario - no power needed to soar.
>
>
> Given the proliferation of electronic equipment in sailplane
> cockpits(computers/GPS/loggers, electronic varios) you really want an
> assured 12 volt power supply anyway. This is easy to achieve with two
> batteries used intelligently and for the paranoid a back up supply for
> the standby vario. (it isn't bad to be paranoid about this)
>
> Putting capacity flasks and mechanical vane type varios in the TE
> system is a bad idea for many reasons particularly the effect on
> responses of any electronic pressure sensor based instruments. These
> effects can be mitigated by splitting the TE line back at the back of
> the seat pan or further aft and running two TE lines to the instrument
> panel. I still see installations where this has not been done. The
> only time you can do without this is with two pressure sensor type
> instruments. Getting rid of mechanical instruments makes installation
> easier. I haven't had a mechanical vario since 1979 or a capacity
> flask since 1983. I've never run out of vario (except when I've had to
> pull mine out of the panel to sell to someone in a hurry - one B40
> lasted exactly 30 minutes after installation).
>
>
I agree it is not ideal, but with my TE pipes seperated under the seat the
Tasman and Winter work very well together.
> +
>
>>V1000M set to rapid response + 20s average. It is worth having just for the
>>average. No problems with legibility on the LCD screen, in bright sunlight, and
>>with/without polarising glasses.
>
>
> We looked at this for the planned B30 system in 1986. That never got
> beyond the planning stage. as I considered a display resolution for
> the vario pointer of 0.4 knots was just too terrible. The Tasman has 1
> knot I believe.
>
> LCD's do make for a cheap display though.
>
> The automotive industry has come to our aid with the stepper motor
> driven pointer. These are used in all the BMW's, Rolls Royce etc cars.
> Interesting that the auto industry hasn't embraced LCD pointers.
>
LCD Pointers no - but LCD information panels are popular. For the obvious
reasons, flexibility (what you display), economy, reliability and low
maintenance. The only serious restriction in the Tasman's design to me is that
there is no USB connector. Standardising on USB for power and data in glider
cockpits would be really good. The simplicity of operation and flexibility would
be outstanding. To my knowledge only LX Navigation have done this so far.

>>By the way - the firmware upgrades are one of the things that decided us on the
>>Tasman rather than the B40. You get an instrument with virtually unlimited
>>development capability. No mechanical stuff you can't change.
>
>
> You are very restricted by the crude resolution of the display and the
> lack of airspeed sensor. The Tasman, like the B40, is just a simple
> TE vario with audio and averager. There isn't really much you can do
> with that which is why we have continued that in to the new B400 which
> is shorter than the B40 it replaces, uses a stepper driven pointer
> with extremely high resolution, has the same kind of averager as the
> B40 with remote push button and optional remotely mounted full time
> digital averager display now available in two sizes and a new optional
> "competition " climb audio (you can still select classic B40 style)
> and a green LED to tell you when you are climbing faster than the
> current running average i.e. "things are getting better" which is also
> given by the audio in "competition" mode.
> We expect to ship the first B400's next week.
>
Now that is an interesting one - I also find the coarse visual resolution of the
Tasman less useful than the winter's precise sweep needle. However, we actually
chose this intentionally as we wanted to teach the student to stop looking at
the needle. The audio is set to 1/10 m/s discrimination, and that works - look
out and listen - a glance at the average every now and again is all you need.

> The B50 has been replaced by the B500 which is now shipping in small
> quantities (and many thanks to our beta testers for your faith and
> patience) and we're ramping up the production rate.
>
> The B500 is an advanced vario system with airspeed sensor and has
> plenty of room for later expansion as it was designed that way.
> Software upgrades will be by download from our website and
> customisation is by hooking it to a PC.
>
> Check it out (and the Basic Instruments article and others) on the
> website.
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
>
> Mike Borgelt
>
>
>
As I commented, which instrument you choose is partly personal prefference,
partly the use you would want to put it to. As a primary vario for training use
the Tasman works very well and we anticipate many years of solid state
reliability. Now that my single seater is getting to do some more serious cross
country work, the appropriate instrumentation may change. At the moment I simply
use what the Tasman and LX20 are telling me to make decisions on how fast to
fly. Great to hear about the B500 - more options.

--
Bruce Greeff
Std Cirrus #57
I'm no-T at the address above.

[309]

Paul,

Thanks for posting the availability of the new firmware...I'm not sure
I would have discovered it otherwise, and I do intend to perform the
upgrade.

I also appreciate the informative thread that was inspired by your
post, despite the protestations of the evangelists. I believe I've
learned a limitation of my relatively new Tasman vario, but am pleased
with it nonetheless (not a paid endoresement...and I bought my Tasman
from someplace other than Cumulus, Craggy, or W&W, so there! BTW, I AM
a customer of all three...I share my wealth, just ask the tow pilots).
I think the Tasman IS an improvement over my Cambridge Mk II (which
works, and I'd ship it to the highest bidder...oops, that's not
allowed, is it???).

I will say -- at the risk of inviting a serious flaming -- keep up the
good work! ;-)

-Pete