61.153(c)

[buttman]

What exactly do they mean by this? Has anyone ever been denied their
ATP because they weren't in "good moral character"? What do they use as
a metric?

[The Visitor]

I heard one person lost it once. Something about mooning someone on a
ramp. I think I read it in Flying Magazine. Anybody??

buttman wrote:

> What exactly do they mean by this? Has anyone ever been denied their
> ATP because they weren't in "good moral character"? What do they use as
> a metric?
>

[Bob Gardner]

The Visitor is right. It wasn't a case of being denied an ATP, it was a case
of a pilot losing his ATP for mooning airline passengers as his DC-3 taxied
by.

Hard to think of a "moral character" issue that wouldn't be caught by the
regs about lying on an application, alcohol use, drug use, etc.

Bob Gardner

"buttman" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> What exactly do they mean by this? Has anyone ever been denied their
> ATP because they weren't in "good moral character"? What do they use as
> a metric?
>

[Greg Farris]

In article >,
says...
>
>
>The Visitor is right. It wasn't a case of being denied an ATP, it was a case
>of a pilot losing his ATP for mooning airline passengers as his DC-3 taxied
>by.
>
>Hard to think of a "moral character" issue that wouldn't be caught by the
>regs about lying on an application, alcohol use, drug use, etc.
>
>Bob Gardner


Not so sure about that, in this day and age. What about the pilot recently,
just back from Bible Camp or whatever, who decided to turn his 767 into a
preaching forum? Granted this would again be a question of challenging and
existing ATP - but what if a Scientologist applicant shows up, announcing his
intention to capitalize on his 200-member strong captive audience? You'd think
he wouldn't be stupid enough to admit to such an intention, but if he did,
or it came to be known, shouldn't there be some regulatory clause to honor the
fact that safe operation of the aircraft is not first and foremost in this
individual's mind . . .

UMM - not to mention applicants who only wanted to learn how to make turns . .
..

GF

[Sylvain]

Bob Gardner wrote:
> The Visitor is right. It wasn't a case of being denied an ATP, it was a case
> of a pilot losing his ATP for mooning airline passengers as his DC-3 taxied
> by.

darn, another one I have to scratch off my
'fun-things-to-do-before-I-did' list... (eventually
getting an ATP being on that list too)

:-)

--Sylvain

[Michelle P]

There are a lot of people out there who flunk the good moral character
who still have pilot and mechanic ratings.
Bad moral character is hard to prove. It is subjective.
Michelle

buttman wrote:

>What exactly do they mean by this? Has anyone ever been denied their
>ATP because they weren't in "good moral character"? What do they use as
>a metric?
>
>
>

[Andrew Sarangan]

I once heard that anyone with a criminal record won't be able to get an
ATP.


"buttman" > wrote in news:1130100649.076403.70760
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> What exactly do they mean by this? Has anyone ever been denied their
> ATP because they weren't in "good moral character"? What do they use
as
> a metric?
>



--
Andrew Sarangan
CFII
http://www.sarangan.org/aviation/

[George Patterson]

Greg Farris wrote:

> Not so sure about that, in this day and age. What about the pilot recently,
> just back from Bible Camp or whatever, who decided to turn his 767 into a
> preaching forum? Granted this would again be a question of challenging and
> existing ATP - but what if a Scientologist applicant shows up, announcing his
> intention to capitalize on his 200-member strong captive audience? You'd think
> he wouldn't be stupid enough to admit to such an intention, but if he did,
> or it came to be known, shouldn't there be some regulatory clause to honor the
> fact that safe operation of the aircraft is not first and foremost in this
> individual's mind . . .

I think we can count on the industry to deny people like that a second audience.
No need for the government to get involved and an excellent argument that the
Constitution forbids such a regulation.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[zatatime]

On 23 Oct 2005 13:50:49 -0700, "buttman" > wrote:

>What exactly do they mean by this? Has anyone ever been denied their
>ATP because they weren't in "good moral character"? What do they use as
>a metric?

Yep. The girl gave an FAA inspector the finger as she was flying
away.

z

[[email protected]]

Yes. A conviction of a felony involving certain kinds of intent or
fraud or intent to deceive has been used to deny a person an ATP.
There are a couple of cases in which pilots were caught with forged
logbooks when presenting them for review for the ATP and the FAA found
that was grounds for denial on the basis of good moral character.
There have been revocations in which the pilot was found to have
engaged in a violation of an FAR that was of the sort that the FAA felt
reflected adversely on good moral character and when the pilot went to
reapply for his ratings, the highest he could get was a commercial
ticket.

It would be interesting to research the history of the requirement.
I've always wondered if it went back to the original "transport" rating
with the Dept of Commerce and the public concern that airline captains
should be something more than just physical and mental ability to fly
the airplane.

All the best,
Rick

[Robert M. Gary]

I think its an old 1950's common phrase used in any job description.

[[email protected]]

Robert,

The good moral character requirement seems to have been in place well
before the '50s.

All the best,
Rick