ATC visit questions?? (Operation rain check)

[[email protected]]

I was wondering if has anyone visited ATC facilities recently and had
to prove US citizenship. I have heard some people that visited Potomac
Approach were not asked for this, but Seattle Approach keeps blocking
non-citizens including permanent residents.

Thanks..

Baha Acuner
www.AcuWings.com

[buttman]

I visited Columbus Tower/TRACON last spring and they never asked us for
any citizenship papers. We all looked american so they ptobably didn't
care.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"buttman" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> I visited Columbus Tower/TRACON last spring and they never asked us for
> any citizenship papers. We all looked american so they ptobably didn't
> care.
>

How does one look American?

[Montblack]

("Steven P. McNicoll" wrote)
> How does one look American?


Look like an out of work roofer.


Montblack

[Ben Hallert]

Shouldn't showing your pilot certificate be adequete? Either way, it
seems kinda sad. Trading an insignificant amount of added safety for a
significant hassle that'll just discourage more and more people from
aviation.

Ben Hallert
PP-ASEL

[Michelle P]

I did an operation rain check last January at Potomac Tracon. They asked
for Pilot certificate number. Over 120 attended.
Michelle

wrote:

>I was wondering if has anyone visited ATC facilities recently and had
>to prove US citizenship. I have heard some people that visited Potomac
>Approach were not asked for this, but Seattle Approach keeps blocking
>non-citizens including permanent residents.
>
>Thanks..
>
>Baha Acuner
>www.AcuWings.com
>
>
>

[Jimmy B.]

wrote:
> I was wondering if has anyone visited ATC facilities recently and had
> to prove US citizenship. I have heard some people that visited Potomac
> Approach were not asked for this, but Seattle Approach keeps blocking
> non-citizens including permanent residents.
>
> Thanks..
>
> Baha Acuner
> www.AcuWings.com
>
I attended an Operation Raincheck last week at Potomac. They asked for
the citizenship in the initial e-mail and they checked IDs on entrance.

[[email protected]]

This is sad.. I am a permanent resident flight school owner (Part 61).
We have non citizen pilots, students. Obviously they all went through
the TSA process. Yet we cannot go to tracon..

I guess it is OK for me to train people but I am considered terrorist
when I want to go to the facility.

[A Guy Called Tyketto]

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wrote:
> I was wondering if has anyone visited ATC facilities recently and had
> to prove US citizenship. I have heard some people that visited Potomac
> Approach were not asked for this, but Seattle Approach keeps blocking
> non-citizens including permanent residents.
>
> Thanks..
>

A group of friends of mine visited LAX Tower, and had no
problems. One of them was Canadian, and a student at Rutgers
University. He showed them his identification, and was allowed in.

One thing I haven't liked for a long while, is the lack of
continuity amongst the facilities regarding operation Rain Check. ZLA
and LAX definitely were friendly enough to allow visits, where L30 and
KLAS wouldn't give you the time of day (even said that Operation Rain
Check ended/doesn't exist anymore). Either has to be all, or none. And
since Rain check is in consistent use, it should be all.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
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[[email protected]]

A Guy Called Tyketto > wrote:
> A group of friends of mine visited LAX Tower, and had no
> problems.

A friend and I visited our tower last week. No identification required.
We have been flying there for over a year, and they know the airplane is
hangared/home there. It's nice to have *a little* familiar rapport with
the controllers if you have time to meet with them outside of the calls
themselves. Our tower encourages that among tenants of the airport, they
even have BBQs to facilitate it. Makes for a more friendly, cooperative
environment, IMO.

[Morgans]

> ("Steven P. McNicoll" wrote)
> > How does one look American?

"Montblack" wrote
> Look like an out of work roofer.

Hey I resemble that remark. I are one! (kinda) ;^)
--
Jim in NC

[BTIZ]

a pilot certificate in and of itself is not.. it does not have a photo
based on that I could call my self Ben and use your certificate to get into
the tower

"Ben Hallert" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Shouldn't showing your pilot certificate be adequete? Either way, it
> seems kinda sad. Trading an insignificant amount of added safety for a
> significant hassle that'll just discourage more and more people from
> aviation.
>
> Ben Hallert
> PP-ASEL
>

[Jimmy B.]

wrote:
> This is sad.. I am a permanent resident flight school owner (Part 61).
> We have non citizen pilots, students. Obviously they all went through
> the TSA process. Yet we cannot go to tracon..
>
> I guess it is OK for me to train people but I am considered terrorist
> when I want to go to the facility.
>
Well, they didn't say that they wouldn't let non-citizens in, they just
asked for my country of citizenship. Being a Yankee, I don't know what
extra the non-citizens had to do.

[Gerald Sylvester]

Do you have a link on information on a Operation Rain Check in the
San Francisco (probably Norcal) area? I called around and didn't
get anywhere.

Thanks in advance.

Gerald



wrote:
> I was wondering if has anyone visited ATC facilities recently and had
> to prove US citizenship. I have heard some people that visited Potomac
> Approach were not asked for this, but Seattle Approach keeps blocking
> non-citizens including permanent residents.
>
> Thanks..
>
> Baha Acuner
> www.AcuWings.com
>

[Gerald Sylvester]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "buttman" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
>>I visited Columbus Tower/TRACON last spring and they never asked us for
>>any citizenship papers. We all looked american so they ptobably didn't
>>care.
> How does one look American?

if anyone replies, please provide references.


<grin>

Gerald

[Mike W.]

He didn't say he was a pilot.

"Ben Hallert" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Shouldn't showing your pilot certificate be adequete? Either way, it
> seems kinda sad. Trading an insignificant amount of added safety for a
> significant hassle that'll just discourage more and more people from
> aviation.
>
> Ben Hallert
> PP-ASEL
>

[tony roberts]

Seattle Center told me that Canadians were not allowed to tour their
tower.

Y'all come over here, you can even take over for 10 minutes while the
controller goes out for a smoke :)

Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

In article om>,
wrote:

> I was wondering if has anyone visited ATC facilities recently and had
> to prove US citizenship. I have heard some people that visited Potomac
> Approach were not asked for this, but Seattle Approach keeps blocking
> non-citizens including permanent residents.
>
> Thanks..
>
> Baha Acuner
> www.AcuWings.com

[Al Gilson]

So...what's the problem Tony? You're a Brit!

- - - -

Al

tony roberts wrote:
> Seattle Center told me that Canadians were not allowed to tour their
> tower.
>
> Y'all come over here, you can even take over for 10 minutes while the
> controller goes out for a smoke :)
>
> Tony

[Andrew Sarangan]

We do regular ATC tours here in Dayton, OH and all noncitizens are
barred from attending, including the chief flight instructor who
organizes the tour.




"Jimmy B." > wrote in news:e_b7f.881$AS6.3
@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

> wrote:
>> I was wondering if has anyone visited ATC facilities recently and had
>> to prove US citizenship. I have heard some people that visited
Potomac
>> Approach were not asked for this, but Seattle Approach keeps blocking
>> non-citizens including permanent residents.
>>
>> Thanks..
>>
>> Baha Acuner
>> www.AcuWings.com
>>
> I attended an Operation Raincheck last week at Potomac. They asked
for
> the citizenship in the initial e-mail and they checked IDs on
entrance.
>



--
Andrew Sarangan
CFII
http://www.sarangan.org/aviation/

[Jose]

> We do regular ATC tours here in Dayton, OH and all noncitizens are
> barred from attending, including the chief flight instructor who
> organizes the tour.

Are noncitizens barred from =working= at ATC?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Newps]

Jose wrote:
>> We do regular ATC tours here in Dayton, OH and all noncitizens are
>> barred from attending, including the chief flight instructor who
>> organizes the tour.
>
>
> Are noncitizens barred from =working= at ATC?

All controllers are citizens.

[Sylvain]

Newps wrote:
>> We do regular ATC tours here in Dayton, OH and all noncitizens are
>>> barred from attending, including the chief flight instructor who
>>> organizes the tour.
>> Are noncitizens barred from =working= at ATC?
> All controllers are citizens.

the funny thing though is that the soldiers or national
guards who sometimes guard these sensitive installations
and airports, in full battle gear, armed to the teeth,
do not have to be citizen...

--Sylvain

[W P Dixon]

A very valid point Slyvain!,
Maybe if we could get more of the left wing radicals to serve their
country we would not have to depend on foreign folks defending it? It's sad
that it happens, and it does. Most governements have no worry at all about
someone from another country fighting for them. I guess it goes to " let
some other sucker die for my country why should I" mentality.
And a local CFI was not allowed to tour the tower at TRI either, not a
citizen. Yep he could enlist in our military , as he probably could in about
any countries military.

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
...
> Newps wrote:
>>> We do regular ATC tours here in Dayton, OH and all noncitizens are
>>>> barred from attending, including the chief flight instructor who
>>>> organizes the tour.
>>> Are noncitizens barred from =working= at ATC?
>> All controllers are citizens.
>
> the funny thing though is that the soldiers or national
> guards who sometimes guard these sensitive installations
> and airports, in full battle gear, armed to the teeth,
> do not have to be citizen...
>
> --Sylvain

[Cub Driver]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:11:15 -0400, "W P Dixon"
> wrote:

> Maybe if we could get more of the left wing radicals to serve their
>country we would not have to depend on foreign folks defending it? It's sad
>that it happens, and it does. Most governements have no worry at all about
>someone from another country fighting for them. I guess it goes to " let
>some other sucker die for my country why should I" mentality.

The U.S. generally has taken the position that citizenship can be
earned, and what better way to earn it than to served in the armed
forces? At one time indeed, in order to attract more foreign-language
specialists into the army, while at the same time providing a haven
for Iron Curtain escapees, you could join the U.S. Army for five years
and at the end of your service, assuming you'd behaved yourself and
mastered the (very minimal) knowledge requirement, get your
citizenship along with the discharge papers. They were called "Lodge
Act enlistees." I served with a bunch of them in Special Warfare at
Fort Bragg, both in PsyWar and in Special Forces.

At that time, too, Puero Ricans made up a disproportionate number of
NCOs in the army. I suspect that Mexicans provide that filler today.

Then there was the case of the German merchant sailor who thought New
York looked pretty, so he jumped ship, got a job, driver's license,
registered for the draft ... oops! got drafted, was stationed in
Germany. Somehow the word got out, and the State Dept had to issue him
a passport so he could come home (i.e., to New York).

I think it's pretty neat.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Darrel Toepfer]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Steven P. McNicoll" wrote)
>
>> How does one look American?
>
> Look like an out of work roofer.

In the south? Hardly...

[Andrew Sarangan]

You are describing our own politicians. Very few have children in the
military, and even fewer have served in prior wars. Their attitude is
"let the average American die for my country, and for my mistakes". No
wonder the same attitude prevails among the public as well.

[[email protected]]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "buttman" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > I visited Columbus Tower/TRACON last spring and they never asked us for
> > any citizenship papers. We all looked american so they ptobably didn't
> > care.
> >
>
> How does one look American?

More than 20 pounds overweight in shorts and a Hawaiian shirt is a
surer sign than a passport for me.

-cwk.

[[email protected]]

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
> You are describing our own politicians. Very few have children in the
> military, and even fewer have served in prior wars. Their attitude is
> "let the average American die for my country, and for my mistakes". No
> wonder the same attitude prevails among the public as well.

There is some truth to that but there's also a lot of misrepresentation
going on out there. To put things in perspective, the military is 69%
white and 17% black, according to a report commissioned by NY
congressman Chuack Rangel. According to the latest DoD report on Iraq
war casualties it shows whites accounting for 73.82% of deaths versus
10.65% for blacks.

The reason for this is that blacks are more represented in support
roles where they can learn trade skills useful for a civilian life.
Whites meanwhile are more likely to be looking for adventure and
volunteer specifically for front-line combat units like the 3ID, 82nd
and 101st Airborne, Rangers, or the USMC. It's also important to point
out that the Army, which is taking the lion's share of casualties, has
a significantly higher % of minority servicemen than the USN or USAF.

So there's a lot of things you ca call this war but racist ain't one of
them.

[W P Dixon]

Dan,
In the Marines the group tended to be Central Americans more than
anything. Even knew a few Jamacians! ;)

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Cub Driver" <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:11:15 -0400, "W P Dixon"
> > wrote:
>
>> Maybe if we could get more of the left wing radicals to serve their
>>country we would not have to depend on foreign folks defending it? It's
>>sad
>>that it happens, and it does. Most governements have no worry at all about
>>someone from another country fighting for them. I guess it goes to " let
>>some other sucker die for my country why should I" mentality.
>
> The U.S. generally has taken the position that citizenship can be
> earned, and what better way to earn it than to served in the armed
> forces? At one time indeed, in order to attract more foreign-language
> specialists into the army, while at the same time providing a haven
> for Iron Curtain escapees, you could join the U.S. Army for five years
> and at the end of your service, assuming you'd behaved yourself and
> mastered the (very minimal) knowledge requirement, get your
> citizenship along with the discharge papers. They were called "Lodge
> Act enlistees." I served with a bunch of them in Special Warfare at
> Fort Bragg, both in PsyWar and in Special Forces.
>
> At that time, too, Puero Ricans made up a disproportionate number of
> NCOs in the army. I suspect that Mexicans provide that filler today.
>
> Then there was the case of the German merchant sailor who thought New
> York looked pretty, so he jumped ship, got a job, driver's license,
> registered for the draft ... oops! got drafted, was stationed in
> Germany. Somehow the word got out, and the State Dept had to issue him
> a passport so he could come home (i.e., to New York).
>
> I think it's pretty neat.
>
>
>
> -- all the best, Dan Ford
>
> email: usenet AT danford DOT net
>
> Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
> Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
> the blog: www.danford.net
> In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com