Bullying desguised (badly) as precaution

[AJ]

I took my daughter to Linden Airport (that's in New Jersey). We stood
with a small crowd at the fence on the shopping mall side as planes
took off and landed. (This is where I got my interest in flying many
years ago.)

Presently a mall security truck drove up and the guard told us to
disperse because we were breaking the law. When one woman asked what
law, he seemed at a loss for a moment, then muttered "national
security." He then said he was calling the police. He drove away,
glaring at us.

The police never came, but the guard came back, more belligerent than
before. Now he started shouting at the crowd and reaching for his
baton. I told him, "You hit me, and my lawyer will eat you for
breakfast." The rest of the crowd stood nearby, watching as he stared
hard at me. The "guard" put the baton away and backed up to his truck.
He said "I'm calling the police" again and drove away.

I wonder how many kids who could have grown up into pilots have been
chased away by this slug and others like him.

AJ

[Skylune]

Threats of being beaten by a mall security guard with a baton have
undoubtably scared thousands and thousands of would-be pilots off.

This urgent issue should be addressed promptly by the AOPA.

[Ben Hallert]

It was Mall security, not airport security? Did you complain to the
Mall management?

Ben Hallert
PP-ASEL

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"AJ" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> I took my daughter to Linden Airport (that's in New Jersey). We stood
> with a small crowd at the fence on the shopping mall side as planes
> took off and landed. (This is where I got my interest in flying many
> years ago.)
>
> Presently a mall security truck drove up and the guard told us to
> disperse because we were breaking the law. When one woman asked what
> law, he seemed at a loss for a moment, then muttered "national
> security." He then said he was calling the police. He drove away,
> glaring at us.
>
> The police never came, but the guard came back, more belligerent than
> before. Now he started shouting at the crowd and reaching for his
> baton. I told him, "You hit me, and my lawyer will eat you for
> breakfast." The rest of the crowd stood nearby, watching as he stared
> hard at me. The "guard" put the baton away and backed up to his truck.
> He said "I'm calling the police" again and drove away.
>
> I wonder how many kids who could have grown up into pilots have been
> chased away by this slug and others like him.
>

Did you advise mall management that there was an idiot posing as mall
security?

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article om>,
"AJ" > wrote:
> I wonder how many kids who could have grown up into pilots have been
> chased away by this slug and others like him.

Shopping mall security seems to have a superiority complex, though if I
had to deal with some of the roving "packs" of kids I see in and around
some of these malls, I'd probably be bent out of shape all the time
also... mostly at the parents.

I suspect that most malls are privately owned, so if you are on mall
property, you can be asked to leave or risk trespass.

My wife and I were once harassed by two Chicago Police officers when we
approached the Meigs Field terminal several years ago... this was in the
late 1990s, after the police had "confiscated" the second floor of the
terminal to use as office space. We were asked about our business at
the airport, to which we responded that we were pilots who had never
been to Meigs and wanted to look inside the terminal. At that point, we
were promptly told to leave the property because the airport "isn't open
to the public." We came back later, when we encountered no police and
were able to enter the terminal and observation deck. We all know how
that book eventually ended.



JKG

[Jay Honeck]

> My wife and I were once harassed by two Chicago Police officers when we
> approached the Meigs Field terminal several years ago... this was in the
> late 1990s, after the police had "confiscated" the second floor of the
> terminal to use as office space. We were asked about our business at
> the airport, to which we responded that we were pilots who had never
> been to Meigs and wanted to look inside the terminal. At that point, we
> were promptly told to leave the property because the airport "isn't open
> to the public." We came back later, when we encountered no police and
> were able to enter the terminal and observation deck. We all know how
> that book eventually ended.

When Mary and I landed at Meigs, shortly after the airspace re-opened
in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, we were appalled at the way we were
treated.

My then-8 year old daughter was "wanded" by a "security officer" (who,
at well over 300 pounds, certainly could not have provided much
security). We were not permitted to walk off the peninsula to get into
downtown -- we were REQUIRED to take a cab. We were treated
contemptuously by people who were being paid to guard US.

Our cab driver, a middle-eastern-looking guy, didn't understand the
added security road blocks, and blithely drove right past a bunch of
Chicago cops waving their hands around wildly. I thought we were going
to be shot, right there.

Chicago was paying probably 15 of these Keystone Cops to "secure"
Meigs. What a bunch of morons. (Perhaps one of them has found a new
job, "guarding" your mall?)

If any mall "security" officer treated me the way you described, I'd
march his sorry cop-wannabee ass into the mall office. Mall management
needs to know what's going on with this doofus.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article
utaviation.com>,
"Skylune" > wrote:

> At least you take some responsibility for tresspassing and the result:
> ultimate closure of the airport.
>
> Has the line, "We are pilots" worked in other situations, like when you
> are pulled over in your car?


You know, I was just thinking about how appropriate your online moniker
is while I was reading some of your other moronic postings... or should
I say, trolls.



JKG

[Dave Stadt]

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> In article om>,
> "AJ" > wrote:
> > I wonder how many kids who could have grown up into pilots have been
> > chased away by this slug and others like him.
>
> Shopping mall security seems to have a superiority complex, though if I
> had to deal with some of the roving "packs" of kids I see in and around
> some of these malls, I'd probably be bent out of shape all the time
> also... mostly at the parents.
>
> I suspect that most malls are privately owned, so if you are on mall
> property, you can be asked to leave or risk trespass.
>
> My wife and I were once harassed by two Chicago Police officers when we
> approached the Meigs Field terminal several years ago... this was in the
> late 1990s, after the police had "confiscated" the second floor of the
> terminal to use as office space. We were asked about our business at
> the airport, to which we responded that we were pilots who had never
> been to Meigs and wanted to look inside the terminal. At that point, we
> were promptly told to leave the property because the airport "isn't open
> to the public." We came back later, when we encountered no police and
> were able to enter the terminal and observation deck. We all know how
> that book eventually ended.
>
> JKG

In Chicago a cop being sent to airport duty is worse than being fired. It's
where they send all the screw-ups. It's cheaper and easier than fighting
the union to get them fired.

[Skylune]

Why thank you, Jonathan. I chose the moniker quite carefully. After
rejecting several, I chose Skylune as my screen name.

(Its actually a takeoff on my longtime Yahoo screen name, Skilune -- you
can visit me on Yahoo chess where I like to practice.)

This forum is a great source of information and, yes!, entertainment for
me in my quest to SAVE THE WORLD from GA.

[Jay Honeck]

> This forum is a great source of information and, yes!, entertainment for
> me in my quest to SAVE THE WORLD from GA.

Thus proving that there really *is* one born every minute.

Wouldn't it be nice if all the nut jobs restricted themselves to saving
the world for snail darters, red tailed owls, and hump-back whales?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Burns]

"AJ" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>snip<
> I wonder how many kids who could have grown up into pilots have been
> chased away by this slug and others like him.
>
> AJ

Even worse, I wonder how many kids watched him, admired him, and want to
grow up to be like HIM? Grand Theft Auto meet baton wielding Trailer Trash
Mall Cop

Jim

[Skylune]

Jay: I hope you are right about anti GA activists being born every minute.
Where did you get the statistics to verify this statement? I would like
it for future reference.

In answer to your (rhetorical) question, it would be nice if GA pilots
pursued these misguided attempts at enviornmentalism, rather than
polluting the skies and wasting gas in a desperate attempt to obtain a
hamburger.

[Sylvain]

Skylune wrote:
> At least you take some responsibility for tresspassing and the result:
> ultimate closure of the airport.

latest scoop! Meigs was closed because Johnathan once tried to
enter the terminal


>
> Has the line, "We are pilots" worked in other situations, like when you
> are pulled over in your car?

when asked while driving my car on airport property (to get to
an aircraft) it kind of work pretty well actually.

--Sylvain

[Sylvain]

Dave Stadt wrote:
> In Chicago a cop being sent to airport duty is worse than being fired. It's
> where they send all the screw-ups. It's cheaper and easier than fighting
> the union to get them fired.

whaow, they really do care about airport security over there! :-)

--Sylvain

[Allen]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> This forum is a great source of information and, yes!, entertainment for
>> me in my quest to SAVE THE WORLD from GA.
>
> Thus proving that there really *is* one born every minute.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice if all the nut jobs restricted themselves to saving
> the world for snail darters, red tailed owls, and hump-back whales?

Hey Jay, I thought you were going to draw him out using understanding,
and kindness............... I, like you, have little tolerance for
ignorance. I see you gave it a shot though :)

Allen

[Skylune]

That midwest sissy crap will never work on Skylune. I am from New Yawk,
and think everything east of the Hudson is an intellectual and
environmental wasteland, best relegated to small planes, crappy little
hotels, farmers whose John Deere caps are curved from peering into their
mailboxes each morning to see if their government subsidy checks to keep
corn out of production have arrived, etc.

[Steve Foley]

How do you feel about west of the Hudson?

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> That midwest sissy crap will never work on Skylune. I am from New Yawk,
> and think everything east of the Hudson is an intellectual and
> environmental wasteland, best relegated to small planes, crappy little
> hotels, farmers whose John Deere caps are curved from peering into their
> mailboxes each morning to see if their government subsidy checks to keep
> corn out of production have arrived, etc.
>

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article
utaviation.com>,
"Skylune" > plucked another fig (He is the
Fig Plucker's son), pulled a booger from his nose and scrawled:

> That midwest sissy crap will never work on Skylune. I am from New Yawk,
> and think everything east of the Hudson is an intellectual and
> environmental wasteland, best relegated to small planes, crappy little
> hotels, farmers whose John Deere caps are curved from peering into their
> mailboxes each morning to see if their government subsidy checks to keep
> corn out of production have arrived, etc.


Scrawled the way we would expect from a truly arrogant, selfish, fatuous
ignoramus!

The "'Loon" reminds me of an ant floating down the river, yelling, "Open
the drawbridge!"

He has already admitted his aspiration of becoming an "Oscar Meyer"
wiener, but, sadly, is not good enough to be one; neither is he good
enough to finish pilot training. Instead, he chooses to disparage and
harm the pilots whom he could never hope to equal. The term
"schadenfreude" fits him perfectly.

[Skylune]

LOL. West, WEST!!! I meant west!!! Anyway, you know I'm in the process
of being "outta dare" to move to Cow Hampshire, where lots of corn is
grown. Did you know that cornfields provide an excellent alternative for
"off runway" landings? I only found this out today!

[Jim Burns]

No John Deere's here... not a single one.
And the government doesn't pay us NOT to produce corn.
They pay us the difference between the daily market price and the government
posted price up to a maximum of $40,000 per year total. They also pay a
loan deficiency payment based on the per bushel price of corn that they
would loan using your corn as collateral vs. the actual market price, up to
a maximum of $65,000 total for the crop year.

So, in fact, they pay us TO produce corn, so much so, that the real market
for corn is an abysmal $1.35 per bushel. Add the $105,000 we'll get from
Uncle Sam for the 180,000 bushels we grew, and we get an average price of
$1.93 per bushel. Cost of production is over $2.00, so because of Uncle Sam
we only loose $0.07 per bu or about $12,600 on our corn crop. Why grow it
to loose money you ask? It's like insurance for your land. Good crop
rotation demands that you sometimes grow worthless crops to preserve and
improve your land for the crops that you can make a living growing.

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with government subsidies, they just make
the national market worse. The government subsidizes corn for several
reasons. Primary is the vote. #2 is to supply the nation with cheap food.
#3 is to have a sufficient commodity base available for export (if this
country ever decides to export anything again). #4 to keep the land values
and the tax base up.

So much for the intellectual view point of a New Yawker about midwest corn
farming.

Jim

[Skylune]

Orville: You are right, as usual. Next time you see the ant floating down
the river yelling, "Open the drawbridge," just think of your favorite
little ditty:

"Oh I wish I were an Oscar Meyer Wiener...."

[Jay Honeck]

> >> This forum is a great source of information and, yes!, entertainment for
> >> me in my quest to SAVE THE WORLD from GA.
> >
> > Thus proving that there really *is* one born every minute.
> >
> > Wouldn't it be nice if all the nut jobs restricted themselves to saving
> > the world for snail darters, red tailed owls, and hump-back whales?
>
> Hey Jay, I thought you were going to draw him out using understanding,
> and kindness...............

Jester: "He won't engage."

Viper: "Keep sending him up..."

Jay: "Nah..."

I tried engaging him, and got...no answer. It's clear that Skylune is
not interested in an intelligent conversation, but prefers to roll the
proverbial hand grenade down the church pew...

It's too bad, cuz he/she's (occasionally) got a good sense of humor.
I suspect we'd probably all like him/her well enough, over a beer.

> I, like you, have little tolerance for
> ignorance. I see you gave it a shot though :)

Oh, well. This is Usenet, so we've got to be thick-skinned enough to
put up with the occasional troll. Eventually we (or he/she) will tire
of the game, and no one will respond anymore.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> So much for the intellectual view point of a New Yawker about midwest corn
> farming.

"Intellectual" and "New Yorker" don't belong in the same sentence, Jim.
You should know that by now...

;-)

(Wow -- 9/11 really *must* be becoming ancient history, if it feels
okay to make fun of New Yorkers again...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Skylune]

Thank you for the correction, and I apologize for the vast
oversimplification of farming subsidies.

Your take on government subsidies (opposed to) does raise some interesting
issues though....

;-)

[Montblack]

("Jim Burns" wrote)
[snip]
> So much for the intellectual view point of a New Yawker about midwest corn
> farming.


Plus S-lune has recently taken to speaking of himself in the third person.


Montblack

[Skylune]

I like most of the pilots too. Really. For once I am not kidding
around....

I appreciate the maverick streak, stubborness, sticktoitiveness, etc. that
you guys have. All good traits IMO. Also, your willingness to manage risk
to pursue what you love.

Ironically, all this "trolling" here has made me think seriously about
re-starting my training for PPL. Now that I have time, I might just do
it!! Maybe I'll see you in Oshkosh. I'll be the guy with the "Alcohol,
Tobacco and Firearms - should be a convenience store" T-shirt on.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> That midwest sissy crap will never work on Skylune. I am from New Yawk,
> and think everything east of the Hudson is an intellectual and
> environmental wasteland, best relegated to small planes, crappy little
> hotels, farmers whose John Deere caps are curved from peering into their
> mailboxes each morning to see if their government subsidy checks to keep
> corn out of production have arrived, etc.
>

New York.... Isn't that the city that had to be bailed out like a Kennedy
several years back?

[Skylune]

He has? That Skylune is a real jerk, a total loser who is too cowardly
and unskilled to get his PPL. But maybe that's his impostor doing the
posting. Who can be sure of anything these days?

And, what's with his disdain of Phil Boyer? What has Boyer ever done to
hurt him? I just don't get it...

[Jim Burns]

On a large scale, they have made it impossible to raise corn and not take
the subsidy. Not taking the subsidy would guarantee bankruptcy for
individual farmers, they simply couldn't afford to loose that much money per
acre. If ALL the farmers could refuse it, once the over supply of corn was
consumed, it would be a different story. But trying to organize farmers is
about what I think it would be like to organize New Yorkers.
Jim

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> Thank you for the correction, and I apologize for the vast
> oversimplification of farming subsidies.
>
> Your take on government subsidies (opposed to) does raise some interesting
> issues though....
>
> ;-)
>

[Allen]

"Steve Foley" > wrote in message
news:Mdb7f.4254$c%.335@trndny02...
> How do you feel about west of the Hudson?

Haha, Skylune's crack is showing. He had better reach down and pull up his
pants before his brains fall out.

Allen

> "Skylune" > wrote in message
> lkaboutaviation.com...
>> That midwest sissy crap will never work on Skylune. I am from New Yawk,
>> and think everything east of the Hudson is an intellectual and
>> environmental wasteland, best relegated to small planes, crappy little
>> hotels, farmers whose John Deere caps are curved from peering into their
>> mailboxes each morning to see if their government subsidy checks to keep
>> corn out of production have arrived, etc.
>>
>
>

[Dave Stadt]

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> Jay: I hope you are right about anti GA activists being born every
minute.
> Where did you get the statistics to verify this statement? I would like
> it for future reference.
>
> In answer to your (rhetorical) question, it would be nice if GA pilots
> pursued these misguided attempts at enviornmentalism, rather than
> polluting the skies and wasting gas in a desperate attempt to obtain a
> hamburger.

At least half the time it's breakfast. Once again you prove you know not
what you are talking about.

[Skylune]

Well actually just the opposite happened. Google on "Ford to City: Drop
dead." There was no federal bailout.

NY State created MAC to "bail out" the city. Of course, the bonds for
that bail-out are still outstanding, and the city's tax structure is
absolutely frightening. Thats why Skylune (talking in the third person
again, like some stupid athlete....) is moving to Cow Hampshire.

My Mossberg and I are no longer welcome in NY.


ERROR!

Due to recent spam and abuse on our forums we have implemented a post
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[Dave Stadt]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
...
> Skylune wrote:
> > At least you take some responsibility for tresspassing and the result:
> > ultimate closure of the airport.
>
> latest scoop! Meigs was closed because Johnathan once tried to
> enter the terminal
>
>
> >
> > Has the line, "We are pilots" worked in other situations, like when you
> > are pulled over in your car?
>
> when asked while driving my car on airport property (to get to
> an aircraft) it kind of work pretty well actually.
>
> --Sylvain

It worked at OSH to get some free Simple Green Extreme.

[Skylune]

Interesting....

IMO the only thing that keeps NYC "organized" is a very heavy and public
police presence. If they had cops like those in New Orleans, the city
would be reduced to a smoldering pile of rubbish within a week.

[Peter R.]

Montblack > wrote:

> Plus S-lune has recently taken to speaking of himself in the third person.

He has become accustomed to the pedestal on which all you responders have
placed him.


--
Peter
























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[Jim Burns]

I'm always willing to try to explain the government subsidy program to
someone ONCE. It's so complicated that we can barely figure it out, so I
don't expect non-farmers to understand it, thus there are many
misconceptions. The main thing to remember is that the government wants the
farmer to over produce. This drives basic food prices below the cost of
production (remember, everything else costs more each year). Then the
government attempts to make up the difference, but in a complicated
governmental way.
Jim

[Dave Stadt]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Montblack > wrote:
>
> > Plus S-lune has recently taken to speaking of himself in the third
person.
>
> He has become accustomed to the pedestal on which all you responders have
> placed him.
>
>
> --
> Peter

In a way I guess you could call a toilet a pedestal.

[Jay Honeck]

> > He has become accustomed to the pedestal on which all you responders have
> > placed him.

> In a way I guess you could call a toilet a pedestal.

Gawd, Dave, warn me when you're gonna do that, will ya? I snorted pop
all over my desk!

Peter has a good point. But, as usual with pilots, we *all* love an
argument!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Ironically, all this "trolling" here has made me think seriously about
> re-starting my training for PPL. Now that I have time, I might just do
> it!! Maybe I'll see you in Oshkosh. I'll be the guy with the "Alcohol,
> Tobacco and Firearms - should be a convenience store" T-shirt on.

Stop the presses!

(Better yet, stop *me*, as I'm about to wander into the Valley of the
Shadow of Death...but here goes...)

Well, Sky, Oshkosh (OSH) -- the biggest fly-in/airshow in the world --
is always held the last week of July. On the Sunday before OSH, Mary
and I host a Fly-In Pool Party at our little Inn, where we provide our
guests with free food, beer, wine, soft drinks, and plenty of
hangar-flying. (Not unlike what you see here, just verbal instead of
written...) It's our way of saying "thanks!" for another good year.

You'd be more than welcome to join our little band of regulars, and a
growing number of "transients" who stop by every year on their way to
(and from) The Big One in Oshkosh. It's a fun way to spend a day!

Then, on Wednesday during the show, Montblack, Jim Burns and I host a
cookout/party at our campsite in the North 40 campground, next to our
aircraft. It's an annual thing, where folks from the aviation
newsgroups can meet and greet each other face to face. This year we
had 50+ (?) people on that little campsite, and consumed an AWFUL lot
of potato salad and beer!

I think you'd find the group to your liking, even though you'd
(naturally) receive some good-natured ribbing. :-)

Might be best to keep your identity quiet for a while...

;-)

And if you haven't found it yet, here is a picture webpage showing many
of the aviation newsgroup regulars and the planes they fly:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/rec_aviation.htm

We call it the "Rogues Gallery" -- and I suspect you'd fit right in.

Finally, I urge you to get your ticket. There is simply nothing else
like it. Don't waste another minute on the ground, looking up!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Ironically, all this "trolling" here has made me think seriously about
> re-starting my training for PPL. Now that I have time, I might just do
> it!! Maybe I'll see you in Oshkosh. I'll be the guy with the "Alcohol,
> Tobacco and Firearms - should be a convenience store" T-shirt on.

Stop the presses!

(Better yet, stop *me*, as I'm about to wander into the Valley of the
Shadow of Death...but here goes...)

Well, Sky, Oshkosh (OSH) -- the biggest fly-in/airshow in the world --
is always held the last week of July. On the Sunday before OSH, Mary
and I host a Fly-In Pool Party at our little Inn, where we provide our
guests with free food, beer, wine, soft drinks, and plenty of
hangar-flying. (Not unlike what you see here, just verbal instead of
written...) It's our way of saying "thanks!" for another good year.

You'd be more than welcome to join our little band of regulars, and a
growing number of "transients" who stop by every year on their way to
(and from) The Big One in Oshkosh. It's a fun way to spend a day!

Then, on Wednesday during the show, Montblack, Jim Burns and I host a
cookout/party at our campsite in the North 40 campground, next to our
aircraft. It's an annual thing, where folks from the aviation
newsgroups can meet and greet each other face to face. This year we
had 50+ (?) people on that little campsite, and consumed an AWFUL lot
of potato salad and beer!

I think you'd find the group to your liking, even though you'd
(naturally) receive some good-natured ribbing. :-)

Might be best to keep your identity quiet for a while...

;-)

And if you haven't found it yet, here is a picture webpage showing many
of the aviation newsgroup regulars and the planes they fly:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/rec_aviation.htm

We call it the "Rogues Gallery" -- and I suspect you'd fit right in.

Finally, I urge you to get your ticket. There is simply nothing else
like it. Don't waste another minute on the ground, looking up!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Skylune]

Jay said..
Stop the presses!

(Better yet, stop *me*, as I'm about to wander into the Valley of the
Shadow of Death...but here goes...)

Well, Sky, Oshkosh (OSH) -- the biggest fly-in/airshow in the world --
is always held the last week of July. On the Sunday before OSH, Mary
and I host a Fly-In Pool Party at our little Inn, where we provide our
guests with free food, beer, wine, soft drinks, and plenty of
hangar-flying. (Not unlike what you see here, just verbal instead of
written...) It's our way of saying "thanks!" for another good year.

You'd be more than welcome to join our little band of regulars, and a
growing number of "transients" who stop by every year on their way to
(and from) The Big One in Oshkosh. It's a fun way to spend a day!

Then, on Wednesday during the show, Montblack, Jim Burns and I host a
cookout/party at our campsite in the North 40 campground, next to our
aircraft. It's an annual thing, where folks from the aviation
newsgroups can meet and greet each other face to face. This year we
had 50+ (?) people on that little campsite, and consumed an AWFUL lot
of potato salad and beer!

I think you'd find the group to your liking, even though you'd
(naturally) receive some good-natured ribbing. :-)

Might be best to keep your identity quiet for a while...

;-)

And if you haven't found it yet, here is a picture webpage showing many
of the aviation newsgroup regulars and the planes they fly:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/rec_aviation.htm

We call it the "Rogues Gallery" -- and I suspect you'd fit right in.

Finally, I urge you to get your ticket. There is simply nothing else
like it. Don't waste another minute on the ground, looking up!"


Jay: Its not really the first time that I talked about restarting the
training that I quit when I lived near FRG. And I do go up with my buddy
(you know, the tired old GPS story....)in the C-172 once in a while. I
even fly the plane sometimes after he has lifted off and is clear of
traffic.

In my shortlived life as a student pilot, I found flying the damned thing
to be the easiest part. Initially, I had alot of trouble taxi-ing, even
with the sit on the hands trick. Then, lining up the runway was tough.
And the radio chatter at FRG.... As they say in New Yawk, fuhgeddaboudit.
Trouble was, I'd take a lesson, then not have time for another week or two.
I decided I needed to devote some SERIOUS time to what really is a life or
death proposition. Then I got too busy making a living.

If I ever do come to OSH, I'd obviously have to conceal my true identity.
(I'm not sure I could do it with a straight face, though.) That business
about the land developer/pilot in NJ who crashed under mysterious
circumstances (some suspect sabotage) is a little disconcerting. And by
"good natured ribbing" I expect that include some broken ribs?

If I take the plunge, I will probably enroll in one of those accelerated
programs in New Mexico or Arizona, and then keep up training locally.
(But I would try to keep it quiet -- not buy a damned Mooney and haul ass
all over the place at all hours raising hell!).

I'm not sure yet. But ski season is here, so I must revert to my other
persona, Skilune.

Take care and fly safely.

[Matt Whiting]

Skylune wrote:

> That midwest sissy crap will never work on Skylune. I am from New Yawk,


That explains it.


Matt

[Skylune]

Oh, I don't know. That sounds easy enough.

[Morgans]

"Jim Burns" > wrote

> So much for the intellectual view point of a New Yawker about midwest corn
> farming.

Skylune isn't smart enough to pour **** out of a boot, if the directions
were written on the heel. 'Nuff said.
--
Jim in NC

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article om>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

.......
> It's too bad, cuz he/she's (occasionally) got a good sense of humor.
> I suspect we'd probably all like him/her well enough, over a beer.

"Skylune" over an open fire, basted with the beer might be more
appropriate -- IF you could ever clean him! ;>)

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
>
> And the government doesn't pay us NOT to produce corn.
> They pay us the difference between the daily market price and the
> government
> posted price up to a maximum of $40,000 per year total. They also pay a
> loan deficiency payment based on the per bushel price of corn that they
> would loan using your corn as collateral vs. the actual market price, up
> to
> a maximum of $65,000 total for the crop year.
>

Where does the Constitution give the government the power to do that?

[W P Dixon]

Probably there right under the sentence where it says the Federal Gov.
controls the school systems. Which is right under the sentence that says
Congress must declare war..unless the UN says we can. ;)

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> And the government doesn't pay us NOT to produce corn.
>> They pay us the difference between the daily market price and the
>> government
>> posted price up to a maximum of $40,000 per year total. They also pay a
>> loan deficiency payment based on the per bushel price of corn that they
>> would loan using your corn as collateral vs. the actual market price, up
>> to
>> a maximum of $65,000 total for the crop year.
>>
>
> Where does the Constitution give the government the power to do that?
>

[Jay Honeck]

> If I ever do come to OSH, I'd obviously have to conceal my true identity.
> (I'm not sure I could do it with a straight face, though.)

Ah, hell. You'd be fine. I've met guys at the Inn that I've gone toe-to-toe
with here, and we've always come out friends.

There' something about communicating in writing that just sounds far harsher
than it really is. If we were SAYING half the stuff we were TYPING, it
would come out sounding a lot friendlier. A little intonation here, a
little chuckle at the end of a sentence there, and you can say just about
anything -- and get away with it!

But type it, and BANG -- people are in your face.

> If I take the plunge, I will probably enroll in one of those accelerated
> programs in New Mexico or Arizona, and then keep up training locally.

I don't think an accelerated program is the way to go, but that's just me.
Personally, I'd recommend that you find a nice local CFI, at a nice,
quiet(er), smaller airport, and go fly the pants off a little C-150. You'll
have that certificate in your back pocket inside of 4 months, and you'll
never be prouder of anything you ever achieve in life.

In my life, flying IS life. Sadly, I wasted the first 35 years of my life
standing on the ground, trying to figure out how to get UP there. Since
then, though, I've spent as much time in the air as possible -- and I simply
can't imagine my life without flying.

It's a wonderful thing, flight -- as I'm starting to understand you already
know...

> (But I would try to keep it quiet -- not buy a damned Mooney and haul ass
> all over the place at all hours raising hell!).

Is that what this is all about? Some dickhead in a Mooney keeping you up
all night?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[tony roberts]

> I wonder how many kids who could have grown up into pilots have been
> chased away by this slug and others like him.

Lots - and from reading your post, as nobody took steps to report him,
probably lots more in the future.

Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Dave Stadt]

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> Oh, I don't know. That sounds easy enough.

Only one way to find out.......we await the results.

[newsgroups.comcast.net]

If I was there with my daughter, and he started coming at me and my daughter
with a baton, I would have to consider doing a double tap, and one. Although
your way was for the best.

"AJ" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I took my daughter to Linden Airport (that's in New Jersey). We stood
> with a small crowd at the fence on the shopping mall side as planes
> took off and landed. (This is where I got my interest in flying many
> years ago.)
....
> The police never came, but the guard came back, more belligerent than
> before. Now he started shouting at the crowd and reaching for his
> baton. I told him, "You hit me, and my lawyer will eat you for
>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> And the government doesn't pay us NOT to produce corn.
>> They pay us the difference between the daily market price and the
>> government
>> posted price up to a maximum of $40,000 per year total. They also pay a
>> loan deficiency payment based on the per bushel price of corn that they
>> would loan using your corn as collateral vs. the actual market price, up
>> to
>> a maximum of $65,000 total for the crop year.
>>
>
> Where does the Constitution give the government the power to do that?
>

Not that I agree but I'd bet they would use an interstate commerce argument
if they had to defend it in court. They use it for just about everything
else.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
news:iKr7f.12$0M1.11@dukeread12...
>
> Not that I agree but I'd bet they would use an interstate commerce
> argument if they had to defend it in court. They use it for just about
> everything else.

Yup. That's not a valid argument.

[Skylune]

I'll think about the C-150 thing. That's the little plane I did some
training in about 15 years back (or was it a 152, i don't recall). I'm
going on 49: is that to late to pick up where I left off? I think not,
especially since I did training and can probably progress to the stall
stuff pretty fast. Anyway, what's to lose?

What this is all about: I and my family have owned properties in a
certain area of southern New Hampshire for years, with intent to retire
there. Over the years, the local airport (about five miles away) has
gotten busier and busier. Last summer, the noise was just out of control.
Low flights all hours of the day and night. A certain Mooney and Bonanza
were the worst offenders: low (well under 1000 feet), loud, and frequent
(constant on sunny weekends). I called the airport manager two or three
times, and got push back, so I stopped calling. Calling people at the FAA
was a complete waste of time, even when I spotted the N-number, which is
damned hard from the ground. They demand "proof," which they make
impossible to provide, and they refuse to investigate.

Then, to make matters worse, I find out the local airport, which is purely
GA and already has a 5000 ft runway, towered, the works, wants to do
"saftey improvements." Well, the "improvements" involve building another
runway and/or lengthening the existing runway to 5500 feet. All in the
name of "safety." Well, I may be crazy, but I am not stupid. No GA prop
plane needs that much asphalt to land safely. I know an expansion plan
disguised as safety project (to make it seem more politically palitable)
when I see it.

I attended the public info session on the "safety improvements". It was
obvious that the meeting was really just another bum rush. The only
people there were the presenters, interested (financially) parties, and
people upset about the noise. Armed with my research, I asked many
specific questions that they were not ready to answer. It was quite clear
that they simply wanted to check off the box required to get the 95% FAA
grant. Since the FAA and the airport gave us the bum rush already, I did
a bunch of additional research, and went the political/editorial route.

Then I uncovered dirt (admitted EPA violations by an FBO, a long expired
Part 150 study, key parts of which were never implemented and simply
shelved, requests to the sponsoring city for operating subsidies when the
city was already experiencing a budget crunch, etc.) I publicized it to
elected officials, government agencies (e.g EPA) and the press.

This used to be a pretty quiet area, but the airport has turned into a
major nuisance. Now, we are thinking of selling a property we recently
acquired and seriously thinking about moving somewhere else. To be honest
the noise levels have dropped considerably -- just a few a-holes now. Not
sure why: I don't bother calling the stupid airport anymore. Their
credibility registers as zero on my meter.

Anyway, the expansion project is on hold way due to environmental issues
(mainly water, as the airport unfortunately sits directly atop the
acquifer for the entire area). All we want is the airport to make a
better effort to enforce its existing noise abatement procedures, which
are routinely ignored by a small minority of fliers.

[Jim Burns]

Actually it's in the USDA Ag budget. Congress says the USDA can have a
budget, then approves an amount. The USDA decides how it doles it out.
They can also go back to Congress and ask for emergency funds.... watch what
happens to the orange growers in FL this winter. Disaster assistance money
will flow through the USDA to them.

Jim

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
>
> I'm always willing to try to explain the government subsidy program to
> someone ONCE.
>

Can you explain where the Constitution gives the government the power to
create the subsidy program?

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
>
> Actually it's in the USDA Ag budget. Congress says the USDA can have a
> budget, then approves an amount. The USDA decides how it doles it out.
> They can also go back to Congress and ask for emergency funds.... watch
> what
> happens to the orange growers in FL this winter. Disaster assistance
> money
> will flow through the USDA to them.
>

Where does the Constitution give the government the power to create the
USDA?

[John T]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>
> Where does the Constitution give the government the power to create
> the USDA?

As with other branches of the Executive, Congress didn't create the USDA -
they just fund it. In this case, Lincoln created the USDA in 1862.

The part I find myself scratching my head over is this (from
<http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navtype=MA&navid=ABOUT_USDA>):

"USDA brings housing, modern telecommunications, and safe drinking water to
rural America."

What do housing, telecommunications and drinking water have to do with
agriculture??

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"John T" > wrote in message
m...
>
> As with other branches of the Executive, Congress didn't create the USDA -
> they just fund it. In this case, Lincoln created the USDA in 1862.
>

But under what Constitutional authority?

[Jim Burns]

"John T" > wrote in message
m...
> As with other branches of the Executive, Congress didn't create the USDA -
> they just fund it. In this case, Lincoln created the USDA in 1862.
>snip<
> --
> John T

and before that versions of it were part of the Patents Department, then the
Department of Interior. Strange beginnings, but based around preserving and
improving seed genetics.
Jim

[John T]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>
> But under what Constitutional authority?

The same authority that allowed creation of the Department of State, the
Department of Defense, etc. My guess is it's within the realm of Article 2,
Section 2. There's also Article 1, Section 8, Clause 18.

But I'm not a Constitutional lawyer.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
> news:iKr7f.12$0M1.11@dukeread12...
>>
>> Not that I agree but I'd bet they would use an interstate commerce
>> argument if they had to defend it in court. They use it for just about
>> everything else.
>
> Yup. That's not a valid argument.
>

There are really very few federal laws currently in place that would have
stood up to the Supreme Court for the first 100 years we were a nation.

The US Constitution is a little over 4600 words long. I wonder how many
words the average law passed by congress today has in it?

[Montblack]

("Steven P. McNicoll" wrote)
> But under what Constitutional authority?


My guess ...The Electoral College :-)


Montblack

[Jay Honeck]

>Skylune opined:
> I'll think about the C-150 thing. That's the little plane I did some
> training in about 15 years back (or was it a 152, i don't recall). I'm
> going on 49: is that to late to pick up where I left off? I think not,
> especially since I did training and can probably progress to the stall
> stuff pretty fast. Anyway, what's to lose?

Absolutely nothing. Mary and I have become the "Pied Pipers" of GA in
our neck of the river, and we know many people WAY older than 48 who
are just starting flight lessons.

Personally, I'd learn in a Cherokee myself, but that's a personal
preference. The 150/152 is just too danged small for a 6' guy (me) and
an instructor, IMHO.

Whichever way you go, you'll never regret it.

<Big Snip>

> Anyway, the expansion project is on hold way due to environmental issues
> (mainly water, as the airport unfortunately sits directly atop the
> acquifer for the entire area). All we want is the airport to make a
> better effort to enforce its existing noise abatement procedures, which
> are routinely ignored by a small minority of fliers.

Ah, I understand now. Isn't it a shame when a few inconsiderate folks
ruin a good thing? Of course, I'm not there, and I don't know what
happened, but (judging by your response) it must've been pretty bad.

Did you try contacting the offending pilot(s)? (Nicely of course.) If
you spotted an "N" number, you can easily obtain the pilot's name and
address off the internet. Go to www.Landings.com and look at their
database section to see what I mean.

You might have better luck contacting the pilot to see if he will
voluntarily divert his usual flight path a bit, just to avoid
over-flying your place.

A good example of this working in our area is our local hospitals.
With three medical centers in town, we've got a LOT of very ill people
nearby -- and the airport is less than a mile south of ALL three of
them.

Needless to say, we local pilots know the location of those hospitals,
and avoid flying over them as best we can. There's nothing worse than
hearing annoyingly loud noises when you're really sick, so we do our
best to keep away. (Transient pilots, of course, couldn't know this,
so occasionally I'll hear/see one go over with the prop pitch and
throttle full-forward, and I just cringe...)

Anyway, it's just a thought. It might be more effective than beating
up all GA pilots on the internet, day after day? :-)

As for dealing with airport authorities and the FAA, I can sympathize.
Hell, dealing with those bureaucracies sucks as an airport SUPPORTER --
I can't *imagine* how bad it must be as an airport opponent.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Steven P. McNicoll" wrote)
>> But under what Constitutional authority?
>
>
> My guess ...The Electoral College :-)
>
>
> Montblack

The way it really works is based on a number of previous rulings by the
Supreme and lower courts. It looks like this.

A. Is spelled out in the US Constitution.
B. Gets Ok'd by the court.
C.
..
..
..
..
..
..
Z. Something that if the founding fathers had thought of they would have
been laughed out of the room.

[gatt]

"Skylune" > wrote in message

> This forum is a great source of information and, yes!, entertainment for
> me in my quest to SAVE THE WORLD from GA.

HAHAHAHAAA!

Here's the deal, troll. You can quest all you want. When GA wants to lure
people toward itself, it gives rides or holds airshows

Until your trolling can equal the thrill of a plane ride or an aerobatic
demonstration, you might as well **** in the ocean.

But keep trying. It's entertaining for us too.
-c

[Morgans]

"newsgroups.comcast.net" > wrote

> If I was there with my daughter, and he started coming at me and my
daughter
> with a baton, I would have to consider doing a double tap, and one.
Although
> your way was for the best.

Enlighten the group, as to what a "double tap" is, please?
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Beckman]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "newsgroups.comcast.net" > wrote
>
>> If I was there with my daughter, and he started coming at me and my
> daughter
>> with a baton, I would have to consider doing a double tap, and one.
> Although
>> your way was for the best.
>
> Enlighten the group, as to what a "double tap" is, please?
> --
> Jim in NC
>

Double Tap: To fire two rounds in quick succession.

Jay B

[tony roberts]

> Enlighten the group, as to what a "double tap" is, please?

Bijesus and Begorra,
tis obvious that yerself was never a member of the IRA!

Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Beckman wrote:
> "Morgans" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"newsgroups.comcast.net" > wrote
>>
>>
>>>If I was there with my daughter, and he started coming at me and my
>>
>>daughter
>>
>>>with a baton, I would have to consider doing a double tap, and one.
>>
>>Although
>>
>>>your way was for the best.
>>
>>Enlighten the group, as to what a "double tap" is, please?
>>--
>>Jim in NC
>>
>
>
> Double Tap: To fire two rounds in quick succession.

.... at the same target.

Matt

[newsgroups.comcast.net]

As others have indicated, double tap refers to two shots fired body center
mass in rapid succession, followed up by one shot to the head (in case there
is body armor in play). This is standard defensive shooting methodology.
I've carried concealed for over thirty years, and fortunately have never had
to draw a weapon in defense, and hope I never have to. I have had several
times that I have had to "consider" it. If I was confronted with an enraged
man with a club (technically assault), coming at my daughter and myself, I
would have to "consider" my options, before battery resulted from the
assailant.

It doesn't sound like it got close to that point, only pointing out that if
the mall cop, (who I don't "believe" has any more legal standing than any
one else), kept coming with a club, then someone who could defend
themselves, may just do that.

A couple other points, it could be that he was just following orders from
his management. It could be that he really thought he was doing good for his
country; just misguided. It could be, like many sheeple, he lives in fear of
the boogeyman. Or he could just be a dickhead.


"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "newsgroups.comcast.net" > wrote
>
> > If I was there with my daughter, and he started coming at me and my
> daughter
> > with a baton, I would have to consider doing a double tap, and one.
> Although
> > your way was for the best.
>
> Enlighten the group, as to what a "double tap" is, please?
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"newsgroups.comcast.net" > wrote in message
...
> As others have indicated, double tap refers to two shots fired body center
> mass in rapid succession, followed up by one shot to the head (in case
> there
> is body armor in play).

No, when a double tap is followed by a shot to the head it is a Mozambique.

[George Patterson]

newsgroups.comcast.net wrote:

> A couple other points, it could be that he was just following orders from
> his management.

The fact that he left and then returned indicates to me that he was. I suspect
he headed over to the office to ask management what to do.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Peter Clark]

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:19:43 -0400, "newsgroups.comcast.net"
> wrote:

>As others have indicated, double tap refers to two shots fired body center
>mass in rapid succession, followed up by one shot to the head (in case there
>is body armor in play). This is standard defensive shooting methodology.
>I've carried concealed for over thirty years, and fortunately have never had
>to draw a weapon in defense, and hope I never have to. I have had several
>times that I have had to "consider" it. If I was confronted with an enraged
>man with a club (technically assault), coming at my daughter and myself, I
>would have to "consider" my options, before battery resulted from the
>assailant.

Including evaluating your options regarding fleeing the scene before
producing your weapon, right?

>It doesn't sound like it got close to that point, only pointing out that if
>the mall cop, (who I don't "believe" has any more legal standing than any
>one else), kept coming with a club, then someone who could defend
>themselves, may just do that.

The way I understand it, at least in the jurisdictions I'm familiar
with, you're only legally allowed to use the bare minimum force
necessary to deal with the oncoming assailant and escape, and if you
have the option to run, you're required to do that before shooting at
them, unless they also have a weapon with some range (a-la they have a
gun themselves). I don't think that shooting someone with a club who
is out of range of using it, who is not pursuing you, taking place in
an open area where you can run away would be justified homicide in
these parts.

[Skylune]

Jay wrote:
" Anyway, it's just a thought. It might be more effective than beating
up all GA pilots on the internet, day after day? :-)"

You're right. After getting the bum rush from the airport, the airport
consultant, the FAA etc., I vented a few times on this forum. But I've
said repeatedly that its a shame that 10% or so are the ones giving GA a
bad name.... The Mooney guy seems to have cut it out, at least the 4:55 am
stuff-- wondering if the other people complaining finally got the airports
(which has noise abatement procedures, theoretically) attention.

On the flight training biz: Thanx for the advice. One of the local
schools trains on Pipers, another Cessnas. I'm over 6' too, and the old
152 i trained in years back doesn't leave an awful lot of head room or leg
room. I've never been in a Piper before. Cessna bills its Skylane as a
"stable, easy to fly" machine. Do you think that's true, and how would
the Piper compare?

(I'll be good (not that I won't ever go after the nefarious Phil Boyer
anymore); the rest of the group can thank Jay!)

[newsgroups.comcast.net]

I agree with everything you said. My options are, walk (or whatever to
leave), talk, defend (with the least amount of force required). I never
meant to advocate shooting someone with a club from a distance, and never
would. My point was that if someone comes at my daughter and/or me, and
"KEEPS" coming, enraged/angered with a club, then I would have to weigh my
options to defend myself, "IF" I was unable to get my daughter, and me away
safely, and not able to talk the situation down. Like I said, it doesn't
seem like the original situation got to that point. I do think that the mall
cop could have been charged with assault, if he did indicate that he was
going to use his baton, just as much as if you or I went after someone with
a club.

I don't believe that fleeing or "minimum force" are requirements everywhere,
but I agree that people should definitely know any regulations that apply to
them, per their location. You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stop the
threat to your life.

This is my last posting on this part of the thread, as I think it's totally
OT for an aviation newsgroup.



"Peter Clark" > wrote in message
...
>
> Including evaluating your options regarding fleeing the scene before
> producing your weapon, right?
, may just do that.
>
> The way I understand it, at least in the jurisdictions I'm familiar
> with, you're only legally allowed to use the bare minimum force
> necessary to deal with the oncoming assailant and escape, and if you
> have the option to run, you're required to do that before shooting at
> them, unless they also have a weapon with some range (a-la they have a
> gun themselves). I don't think that shooting someone with a club who
> is out of range of using it, who is not pursuing you, taking place in
> an open area where you can run away would be justified homicide in
> these parts.

[Bill]

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:36:53 -0400, "Skylune"
> wrote:

>Jay wrote:
> " Anyway, it's just a thought. It might be more effective than beating
>up all GA pilots on the internet, day after day? :-)"
>
>You're right. After getting the bum rush from the airport, the airport
>consultant, the FAA etc., I vented a few times on this forum. But I've
>said repeatedly that its a shame that 10% or so are the ones giving GA a
>bad name.... The Mooney guy seems to have cut it out, at least the 4:55 am
>stuff-- wondering if the other people complaining finally got the airports
>(which has noise abatement procedures, theoretically) attention.
>
>On the flight training biz: Thanx for the advice. One of the local
>schools trains on Pipers, another Cessnas. I'm over 6' too, and the old
>152 i trained in years back doesn't leave an awful lot of head room or leg
>room. I've never been in a Piper before. Cessna bills its Skylane as a
>"stable, easy to fly" machine. Do you think that's true, and how would
>the Piper compare?
>
>(I'll be good (not that I won't ever go after the nefarious Phil Boyer
>anymore); the rest of the group can thank Jay!)
>
>

This just warms my heart! I hope you do go get your license, and I
hope you keep us posted. Let us know about your training, and tell us
when you solo!


Bill Strahan
------------
Find a new reason to fly
www.adventurepilot.com

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[Jim Burns]

"Skylune" >snip<
> What this is all about: <snipped>

Nothing is more frustrating than being frustrated. I can understand your
frustration of not getting any satisfaction. I can also understand your
frustration of owning a property and then not being able to enjoy it due to
the actions of others, especially if those actions were not evident prior to
your purchase. Granted, you knew the property was near an airport, but like
you said, the actions of a few, not the majority, is what spoiled it. I
think, unfortunately, that it is human nature for those that you have
complained to, to protect the insiders and shun the outsiders, for it is the
insiders with who they associate. I think that another way to skin that cat
would be to resume your flight training while learning who the offenders
are, then approach them individually. You may have more success as an
"insider approaching another insider". Just an idea, it may work and you
may enjoy your training, or it may not work and you may find that the
offender is just a jerk and nothing will sway him from his ways.

I personally can not tolerate neighbors. Not that I do not enjoy people,
but I am a rather private person. I do not like unannounced visitors,
salesmen, or even phone calls. When I'm at home, I want to be left alone.
A neighbors repetitive barking dog, leaf blower, or loud muffler would
simply drive me crazy. I feel fortunate that I can live in a rather
isolated area and own all of the surrounding property. I feel sorry for
those who wish they could but can not.

best of luck,

Jim

[Skylune]

Thanks, Jim.

After I tried to be reasonable with the airport, then the FAA, then the
airport's paid consultant, by asking that the noise abatement procedures
be adhered to (safety permitting, obviously), and that the airport
actually implement the processes they themselves agreed to in a 1990 Part
150 study. No one ever asked for total silence, or that the airport be
shut down, etc. Nonetheless, I got nothing but grief and push back. Not
the best way to maintain good relations with the surrounding community,
IMO. It certainly set me off after a time. So I began my counterassault.


My research eventually led me to various news groups, including this one.
Great source of information as to what the pilots are thinking. I'll admit
that some of my earlier posts were over-the-top and inappropriately
attacked the GA community as a whole.

The really ironic thing is, as I mentioned to Jay H, all this aviation
talk has helped reignite my interest in restarting my long-ago abandoned
training. If I do it, I'll find myself in the position of actually
patronizing the airport I was attacking. LOL.

[Sylvain]

Skylune wrote:
> training. If I do it, I'll find myself in the position of actually
> patronizing the airport I was attacking. LOL.

....and in no time you'll be thinking, geeez, I really wish we had
these extra 500' of runway to play with :-)

--Sylvain

[Jim Burns]

One favorite saying that I repeat to students at our airport: "If you hang
around here long enough, you'll see something stupid happen every single
day." It's meant to keep students alert to what's going on around them and
to observe and learn from the mistakes of others. Hopefully, the student
will keep that in the back of his head and he'll ask himself "Is what I'm
about to do going to look stupid to another pilot? Is it stupid?" If the
noise abatement procedures are clearly posted and a pilot repeatedly ignores
the procedures for no good reason, then I would classify his actions as
described above and I can all but guarantee you that the well respected
pilots at the airport do not approve of it either. Should you resume your
training, your complaint may be met with more understanding by the other
pilots than by the airport management or the other officials. Peer pressure
can be stronger than official notices.

Good luck
Jim

[Skylune]

I hope I won't need 5500 feet to land a C-172 or Piper! But...you never
know. As the saying goes, "Where you stand depends upon where you sit."

[Montblack]

("Jim Burns" wrote)
[snip]
> I personally can not tolerate neighbors. Not that I do not enjoy people,
> but I am a rather private person. I do not like unannounced visitors,
> salesmen, or even phone calls. When I'm at home, I want to be left alone.


Note to group - Jim's surprise Birthday Party is off indefinitely.


Montblack :-)

[Jim Burns]

LMAO! Now Paul, I think I would at least know the date of it!!! So, you
really wouldn't suprise me... however you may be suprised if I just happened
to be out of town! :))
Jim

[Jay Honeck]

> On the flight training biz: Thanx for the advice. One of the local
> schools trains on Pipers, another Cessnas. I'm over 6' too, and the old
> 152 i trained in years back doesn't leave an awful lot of head room or leg
> room. I've never been in a Piper before. Cessna bills its Skylane as a
> "stable, easy to fly" machine. Do you think that's true, and how would
> the Piper compare?

The Skylane (Cessna 182) is a fine bird, but it's also a high-performance
plane, not generally used for primary training. Not to say that it can't be
done, but the per-hour rate on a Skylane is much higher than a 150/152.

Unless, by chance, did you mean a Skyhawk? That's a 172, and is often used
as a primary flight trainer. Good plane, very stable, low-powered, but
that's okay -- you can't get into too much trouble that way. It's a lot
roomier inside than a 152, being a 4-seater, and is more along the lines of
the Pipers I was recommending.

I trained in a Piper Cherokee 140, which they don't make anymore. Many
people train in a Piper Warrior (a "stretched" Cherokee 140), which is still
in production and is basically a Cessna 172 with the wing on the bottom.
Personally, I like riding on TOP of the wing, rather than hanging beneath
it -- but that's just a personal preference.

Either plane will give you more head/shoulder room than a 150/152, but will
cost commensurately more per hour to operate. I think the few extra bucks
per hour are worth not having to lay on top of your instructor -- unless
she's good looking... ;-)

> (I'll be good (not that I won't ever go after the nefarious Phil Boyer
> anymore); the rest of the group can thank Jay!)

Jeez, don't be too good -- who will we have to abuse? ;-) Seriously, over
time I think you will find pilots to be an outstanding group of people, for
the most part. Not to say that every group doesn't have bad apples, but
they are few and far between at airports, in my experience. Not only are
pilots my best friends, but I've built a business plan around them -- and
haven't been disappointed yet.

In closing, getting your pilot's certificate will be unlike anything you've
ever accomplished before -- I urge you to do it! That certificate, for me,
is far more significant and meaningful than my high school diploma, my
college degree, or any award or title of won, before or since.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Sylvain]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Either plane will give you more head/shoulder room than a 150/152, but will
> cost commensurately more per hour to operate. I think the few extra bucks
> per hour are worth not having to lay on top of your instructor -- unless
> she's good looking... ;-)


another advantage of the warrior or C172, is that once you have
your ticket, you are already flying an aircraft that is a lot
more capable than a C152; these are neat cross country aircraft
(well, at least for a while, some people are never satisfied),
i.e., you won't have to transition into a more capable aircraft
soon after the checkride.

--Sylvain

[Jay Beckman]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>> Either plane will give you more head/shoulder room than a 150/152, but
>> will cost commensurately more per hour to operate. I think the few extra
>> bucks per hour are worth not having to lay on top of your instructor --
>> unless she's good looking... ;-)
>
>
> another advantage of the warrior or C172, is that once you have
> your ticket, you are already flying an aircraft that is a lot
> more capable than a C152; these are neat cross country aircraft
> (well, at least for a while, some people are never satisfied),
> i.e., you won't have to transition into a more capable aircraft
> soon after the checkride.
>
> --Sylvain

Your local geography can play a part in this process too. Here in Arizona,
one must be very aware of density altitude issues. Some places are just not
reachable when it's hot and/or the destination is "high." I opted to train
in 180hp 172s for this very reason. Doesn't mean that I can discount
density altiude (far from it), but I don't run out of performance chart as
fast as I would with a 150/152 or lower powered Piper.

Just my $0.02 worth...

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[Jay Honeck]

>> another advantage of the warrior or C172, is that once you have
>> your ticket, you are already flying an aircraft that is a lot
>> more capable than a C152; these are neat cross country aircraft

Absolutely. I trained in a Cherokee 140, transitioned seamlessly to renting
Warriors after I got my ticket, and made the Warrior the first plane I
bought.

If my kids didn't get so danged big, I'd STILL be flying that Warrior. It's
a great plane -- just a bit underpowered if you have to fly with four real
people all the time.

> Your local geography can play a part in this process too. Here in
> Arizona, one must be very aware of density altitude issues.

Well, since Skylune is a New Yorker, I don't think he'll have to worry too
much about density altitude.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Whiting]

Peter Clark wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:19:43 -0400, "newsgroups.comcast.net"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>As others have indicated, double tap refers to two shots fired body center
>>mass in rapid succession, followed up by one shot to the head (in case there
>>is body armor in play). This is standard defensive shooting methodology.
>>I've carried concealed for over thirty years, and fortunately have never had
>>to draw a weapon in defense, and hope I never have to. I have had several
>>times that I have had to "consider" it. If I was confronted with an enraged
>>man with a club (technically assault), coming at my daughter and myself, I
>>would have to "consider" my options, before battery resulted from the
>>assailant.
>
>
> Including evaluating your options regarding fleeing the scene before
> producing your weapon, right?
>
>
>>It doesn't sound like it got close to that point, only pointing out that if
>>the mall cop, (who I don't "believe" has any more legal standing than any
>>one else), kept coming with a club, then someone who could defend
>>themselves, may just do that.
>
>
> The way I understand it, at least in the jurisdictions I'm familiar
> with, you're only legally allowed to use the bare minimum force
> necessary to deal with the oncoming assailant and escape, and if you
> have the option to run, you're required to do that before shooting at
> them, unless they also have a weapon with some range (a-la they have a
> gun themselves). I don't think that shooting someone with a club who
> is out of range of using it, who is not pursuing you, taking place in
> an open area where you can run away would be justified homicide in
> these parts.

I believe this is correct in most states, but, fortunately, no longer
true in Florida. I'm hoping other states will follow suit in the near
future as many did with the concealed carry laws. It is insane that I
should be expected to flee from somewhere that I have a right to be,
just because some perp is around.

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Skylune wrote:

> On the flight training biz: Thanx for the advice. One of the local
> schools trains on Pipers, another Cessnas. I'm over 6' too, and the old
> 152 i trained in years back doesn't leave an awful lot of head room or leg
> room. I've never been in a Piper before. Cessna bills its Skylane as a
> "stable, easy to fly" machine. Do you think that's true, and how would
> the Piper compare?

Consider then a 172 for training rather than a 150. It likely isn't
much more costly than a Cherokee.

Pipers are as easy to fly as the 1xx Cessnas, probably easier as they
don't really stall and you can see the runway while flying the pattern.
Some people seem to need to be able to do that, but I never could
figure out why as the runway isn't moving so when I roll out of my turn
it will be right where I expect it to be based on where I started my turn.

I'd much rather be able to easily see down while flying so that I can
keep an eye on emergency landing sites, than be able to see the runway
during a normal approach. I find emergency landing site selection much
more difficult in the Arrow I now fly as compared to the 182 I formerly
owned. The 182 also had a much better glide ratio, landed more easily,
took off more easily (the Arrow will over rotate, so you have to relax
pitch as soon as the wheels break ground), and was more responsive in
all axes of control. It also had much more rudder authority for forward
slips and side slips for cross wind landings. I rarely had to use full
rudder on the Skylane, but it isn't hard to run out of rudder on the
Arrow. I think a lot of the issue with the Arrow is that it seems to
have a lot more friction in the control system than the Cessnas, so if
you don't keep things lubed up often, the control column gets pretty
sticky, especially in pitch.

Having said that, the Arrow is much better than not flying at all, but
I'll take a Cessna any day ... especially a rainy day. :-)

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Jim Burns wrote:

> I personally can not tolerate neighbors. Not that I do not enjoy people,
> but I am a rather private person. I do not like unannounced visitors,
> salesmen, or even phone calls. When I'm at home, I want to be left alone.
> A neighbors repetitive barking dog, leaf blower, or loud muffler would
> simply drive me crazy. I feel fortunate that I can live in a rather
> isolated area and own all of the surrounding property. I feel sorry for
> those who wish they could but can not.

I'm with you, Jim. I bought a former 88 acre farm and built my log
house just about in the center! My driveway is a little bit of a pain
to plow in the winter (1700' long), but my nearest neighbor is more than
a quarter mile away and that suits me just fine. :-)

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Skylune wrote:

> I hope I won't need 5500 feet to land a C-172 or Piper! But...you never
> know. As the saying goes, "Where you stand depends upon where you sit."
>

I would hope so also! If you do, get yourself a new instructor who is
competent.

Although, it is funny how different people learn to fly. I learned at
N38 which is in mountainous northern PA and has an east/west runway
(10/28) and the north end of a north/south valley (called the PA Grand
Canyon). This nearly guarantees a crosswind out of the south almost all
of the time that the wind is blowing. Back then, the runway was
something like 1899' feet of asphalt with a couple hundred feet of
grass/gravel on each end before the trees began (runway 28) or the road
crossed (runway 10). This is plenty of room for pretty much any GA
single, however, almost every day we had somebody fly an approach or two
and then decide they couldn't land. One day the pilot who did this was
flying a Cherokee and was a commercial pilot. The wind was about 14
knots directly across the runway. I remember the airport owner having a
good laugh as at the time one of his students was flying the pattern in
a 150. :-)


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Sylvain wrote:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> Either plane will give you more head/shoulder room than a 150/152, but
>> will cost commensurately more per hour to operate. I think the few
>> extra bucks per hour are worth not having to lay on top of your
>> instructor -- unless she's good looking... ;-)
>
>
>
> another advantage of the warrior or C172, is that once you have
> your ticket, you are already flying an aircraft that is a lot
> more capable than a C152; these are neat cross country aircraft
> (well, at least for a while, some people are never satisfied),
> i.e., you won't have to transition into a more capable aircraft
> soon after the checkride.


That is true, but the transition is pretty painless. I transitioned
from 150 to 172 in one circuit of the pattern. I transitioned from the
172 to the 182 in two ciruits. The second circuit was due to me not
remembering to reduce the prop RPM before reducing the MP on takeoff as
I hadn't flown behind a CS before. I landed both the 172 and the 182
unassisted the first time with no problem at all.

I think it depends on how you were taught. Some folks are taught to fly
"by the numbers" and some are taught to make the airplane do what you
want it to do. I was taught by a crusty old instructor who taught the
latter. He expected you to do what was required to make the airplane do
what you wanted it to do. Sure, the 172 requires more pull to flare
than does the 150, and the 182 requires yet more, however, so what? You
keep pulling harder on the yoke until you get the pitch attitude you
desire for the flare. It really is as simple as that. You fly by the
pull required on the yoke, you fly to the attitude required for the
flare. Whether it takes 5 lbs of pull or 25 lbs shouldn't be a factor.
Unless, of course, you aren't physically capable of providing the
force required. However, I've seen some very small people fly Skylanes,
so I don't think that is a factor unless you are physically handicapped.


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Well, since Skylune is a New Yorker, I don't think he'll have to worry too
> much about density altitude.

Wrong. There is a LOT of hot air in NY City. :-)

Matt

[Allen]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Sylvain wrote:
>
> > Jay Honeck wrote:
> >
> >> Either plane will give you more head/shoulder room than a 150/152, but
> >> will cost commensurately more per hour to operate. I think the few
> >> extra bucks per hour are worth not having to lay on top of your
> >> instructor -- unless she's good looking... ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> > another advantage of the warrior or C172, is that once you have
> > your ticket, you are already flying an aircraft that is a lot
> > more capable than a C152; these are neat cross country aircraft
> > (well, at least for a while, some people are never satisfied),
> > i.e., you won't have to transition into a more capable aircraft
> > soon after the checkride.
>
>
> That is true, but the transition is pretty painless. I transitioned
> from 150 to 172 in one circuit of the pattern. I transitioned from the
> 172 to the 182 in two ciruits. The second circuit was due to me not
> remembering to reduce the prop RPM before reducing the MP on takeoff as
> I hadn't flown behind a CS before.

What is the reasoning behind reducing the prop RPM before reducing MP? I've
always been taught the exact opposite.

Allen

[Matt Whiting]

Allen wrote:

> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Sylvain wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Jay Honeck wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Either plane will give you more head/shoulder room than a 150/152, but
>>>>will cost commensurately more per hour to operate. I think the few
>>>>extra bucks per hour are worth not having to lay on top of your
>>>>instructor -- unless she's good looking... ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>another advantage of the warrior or C172, is that once you have
>>>your ticket, you are already flying an aircraft that is a lot
>>>more capable than a C152; these are neat cross country aircraft
>>>(well, at least for a while, some people are never satisfied),
>>> i.e., you won't have to transition into a more capable aircraft
>>>soon after the checkride.
>>
>>
>>That is true, but the transition is pretty painless. I transitioned
>>from 150 to 172 in one circuit of the pattern. I transitioned from the
>>172 to the 182 in two ciruits. The second circuit was due to me not
>>remembering to reduce the prop RPM before reducing the MP on takeoff as
>>I hadn't flown behind a CS before.
>
>
> What is the reasoning behind reducing the prop RPM before reducing MP? I've
> always been taught the exact opposite.

There is none, I simply wrote it backwards. What I wrote is what I did
the first time! What you were taught is generally considered to be correct.

Matt

[W P Dixon]

I envy you Jim! The guy who owns the house next door has trash living there.
Usually requires a monthly visit by the Sheriff's Dept. Love where I live
and loathe my trashy neighbors! ;)

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech


"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Nearest neighbors here are 1/2 mile north and 1/2 mile south, and one of
> those houses we actually own and rent out, so we can control who that
> neighbor is, east it's over a mile, west it's 2 miles to another house
> that
> we own and rent out. Directly across the road from our house is a third
> house that we own but I refuse to rent it out because I simply don't want
> a
> neighbor that close, I've learned my lesson the hard way, it simply wasn't
> worth it.
>
> Jim
>
> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Jim Burns wrote:
>>
>> > I personally can not tolerate neighbors. Not that I do not enjoy
> people,
>> > but I am a rather private person. I do not like unannounced visitors,
>> > salesmen, or even phone calls. When I'm at home, I want to be left
> alone.
>> > A neighbors repetitive barking dog, leaf blower, or loud muffler would
>> > simply drive me crazy. I feel fortunate that I can live in a rather
>> > isolated area and own all of the surrounding property. I feel sorry
>> > for
>> > those who wish they could but can not.
>>
>> I'm with you, Jim. I bought a former 88 acre farm and built my log
>> house just about in the center! My driveway is a little bit of a pain
>> to plow in the winter (1700' long), but my nearest neighbor is more than
>> a quarter mile away and that suits me just fine. :-)
>>
>> Matt
>
>

[George Patterson]

Montblack wrote:

> Note to group - Jim's surprise Birthday Party is off indefinitely.

Shoot! I already rented the gorilla costume.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Judah]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
oups.com:

>> So much for the intellectual view point of a New Yawker about midwest
>> corn farming.
>
> "Intellectual" and "New Yorker" don't belong in the same sentence,
> Jim.
> You should know that by now...

Hey! I resemble that remark!

[Judah]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in
:

> On a large scale, they have made it impossible to raise corn and not
> take the subsidy. Not taking the subsidy would guarantee bankruptcy
> for individual farmers, they simply couldn't afford to loose that much
> money per acre. If ALL the farmers could refuse it, once the over
> supply of corn was consumed, it would be a different story. But
> trying to organize farmers is about what I think it would be like to
> organize New Yorkers. Jim
>

Are you saying we should be voting more Sicilians into office? Or just to
run the Dept of Agriculture?

[Judah]

First, I'd say if you are a Skiier, you may find flying a very exciting
way to cut a white-knuckled drive to Killington or Mount Snow or
Butternut in half.. I haven't done it yet personally, but I somehow
manage to talk about doing it every year, and several of the ski resorts
in New England seem have airports nearby or in some cases on site...

Second, calling airport operations to complain about a rude bonanza or
mooney pilot flying too low off airport is like calling a hotel manager
to complain that one of his hotel guests is drunk and boisterous in a
bar down the block... You know what I mean? The hotel operator is
unlikely to take action against someone who is probably a customer for
doing something off property... Not sure what might be better (probably
calling the pilot directly) but your tactic would surely be pretty
futile.

Get your ticket, and the noise will stop bugging you as you look up
every time you hear it. Besides, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

:)

Good luck!

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> In closing, getting your pilot's certificate will be unlike anything
you've
> ever accomplished before -- I urge you to do it! That certificate, for
me,
> is far more significant and meaningful than my high school diploma, my
> college degree, or any award or title of won, before or since.

How does it compare to the title of Husband? (just on the off chance that
Mary is looking in <g> )
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> Well, since Skylune is a New Yorker, I don't think he'll have to worry too
> much about density altitude.

No, just the denseness of New Yorkers! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Jim Burns]

Nearest neighbors here are 1/2 mile north and 1/2 mile south, and one of
those houses we actually own and rent out, so we can control who that
neighbor is, east it's over a mile, west it's 2 miles to another house that
we own and rent out. Directly across the road from our house is a third
house that we own but I refuse to rent it out because I simply don't want a
neighbor that close, I've learned my lesson the hard way, it simply wasn't
worth it.

Jim

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Jim Burns wrote:
>
> > I personally can not tolerate neighbors. Not that I do not enjoy
people,
> > but I am a rather private person. I do not like unannounced visitors,
> > salesmen, or even phone calls. When I'm at home, I want to be left
alone.
> > A neighbors repetitive barking dog, leaf blower, or loud muffler would
> > simply drive me crazy. I feel fortunate that I can live in a rather
> > isolated area and own all of the surrounding property. I feel sorry for
> > those who wish they could but can not.
>
> I'm with you, Jim. I bought a former 88 acre farm and built my log
> house just about in the center! My driveway is a little bit of a pain
> to plow in the winter (1700' long), but my nearest neighbor is more than
> a quarter mile away and that suits me just fine. :-)
>
> Matt

[Montblack]

("Jim Burns" wrote)
[snip]
> ....west it's 2 miles to another house that we own and rent out. Directly
> across the road from our house is a third house that we own but I refuse
> to rent it out...


Jeez Jim, that town of yours only has 8 houses, and you own half of them.
<g>

http://www.burnsvillemn.com/visitorsinfo-bcvb/index.php
The name is already taken in the Twin Cities, but I think it's still
available in Wisconsin :-)


Montblack

[Tom]

Maybe AOPA could send a "stern letter of caution" to the airport security
director.

Skylune, get a clue.

Tom

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> Threats of being beaten by a mall security guard with a baton have
> undoubtably scared thousands and thousands of would-be pilots off.
>
> This urgent issue should be addressed promptly by the AOPA.
>

[Tom]

Trouble is Jay, sometimes you come off as just as big a whack-job as Skylune
is.
The difference is though, you actually are a pilot and Skylune is a wash-out
from Embry-Riddle.

Tom

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> This forum is a great source of information and, yes!, entertainment for
>> me in my quest to SAVE THE WORLD from GA.
>
> Thus proving that there really *is* one born every minute.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice if all the nut jobs restricted themselves to saving
> the world for snail darters, red tailed owls, and hump-back whales?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Skylune]

And don't forget, I am Skylune, a big fat greasy turd.



"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> He has? That Skylune is a real jerk, a total loser who is too cowardly
> and unskilled to get his PPL. But maybe that's his impostor doing the
> posting. Who can be sure of anything these days?
>
> And, what's with his disdain of Phil Boyer? What has Boyer ever done to
> hurt him? I just don't get it...
>

[Tom]

You are 49 years old? Aren't you just a tad mature (in years) to be acting
like a whack-job?

Tom

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> I'll think about the C-150 thing. That's the little plane I did some
> training in about 15 years back (or was it a 152, i don't recall). I'm
> going on 49: is that to late to pick up where I left off? I think not,
> especially since I did training and can probably progress to the stall
> stuff pretty fast. Anyway, what's to lose?
>
> What this is all about: I and my family have owned properties in a
> certain area of southern New Hampshire for years, with intent to retire
> there. Over the years, the local airport (about five miles away) has
> gotten busier and busier. Last summer, the noise was just out of control.
> Low flights all hours of the day and night. A certain Mooney and Bonanza
> were the worst offenders: low (well under 1000 feet), loud, and frequent
> (constant on sunny weekends). I called the airport manager two or three
> times, and got push back, so I stopped calling. Calling people at the FAA
> was a complete waste of time, even when I spotted the N-number, which is
> damned hard from the ground. They demand "proof," which they make
> impossible to provide, and they refuse to investigate.
>
> Then, to make matters worse, I find out the local airport, which is purely
> GA and already has a 5000 ft runway, towered, the works, wants to do
> "saftey improvements." Well, the "improvements" involve building another
> runway and/or lengthening the existing runway to 5500 feet. All in the
> name of "safety." Well, I may be crazy, but I am not stupid. No GA prop
> plane needs that much asphalt to land safely. I know an expansion plan
> disguised as safety project (to make it seem more politically palitable)
> when I see it.
>
> I attended the public info session on the "safety improvements". It was
> obvious that the meeting was really just another bum rush. The only
> people there were the presenters, interested (financially) parties, and
> people upset about the noise. Armed with my research, I asked many
> specific questions that they were not ready to answer. It was quite clear
> that they simply wanted to check off the box required to get the 95% FAA
> grant. Since the FAA and the airport gave us the bum rush already, I did
> a bunch of additional research, and went the political/editorial route.
>
> Then I uncovered dirt (admitted EPA violations by an FBO, a long expired
> Part 150 study, key parts of which were never implemented and simply
> shelved, requests to the sponsoring city for operating subsidies when the
> city was already experiencing a budget crunch, etc.) I publicized it to
> elected officials, government agencies (e.g EPA) and the press.
>
> This used to be a pretty quiet area, but the airport has turned into a
> major nuisance. Now, we are thinking of selling a property we recently
> acquired and seriously thinking about moving somewhere else. To be honest
> the noise levels have dropped considerably -- just a few a-holes now. Not
> sure why: I don't bother calling the stupid airport anymore. Their
> credibility registers as zero on my meter.
>
> Anyway, the expansion project is on hold way due to environmental issues
> (mainly water, as the airport unfortunately sits directly atop the
> acquifer for the entire area). All we want is the airport to make a
> better effort to enforce its existing noise abatement procedures, which
> are routinely ignored by a small minority of fliers.
>
>
>

[Tom]

Boo-****ing-hoo Skylune. I get annoyed when you crank up your leaf blower
every Sunday morning at 7:00am. I also get annoyed when your ****-bird kids
are running the neighborhood at 11:00pm acting like their dad.

But I live with it, because I have to, or move. That's an option for you
too, nimrod.

Tom

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> Thanks, Jim.
>
> After I tried to be reasonable with the airport, then the FAA, then the
> airport's paid consultant, by asking that the noise abatement procedures
> be adhered to (safety permitting, obviously), and that the airport
> actually implement the processes they themselves agreed to in a 1990 Part
> 150 study. No one ever asked for total silence, or that the airport be
> shut down, etc. Nonetheless, I got nothing but grief and push back. Not
> the best way to maintain good relations with the surrounding community,
> IMO. It certainly set me off after a time. So I began my counterassault.
>
>
> My research eventually led me to various news groups, including this one.
> Great source of information as to what the pilots are thinking. I'll
> admit
> that some of my earlier posts were over-the-top and inappropriately
> attacked the GA community as a whole.
>
> The really ironic thing is, as I mentioned to Jay H, all this aviation
> talk has helped reignite my interest in restarting my long-ago abandoned
> training. If I do it, I'll find myself in the position of actually
> patronizing the airport I was attacking. LOL.
>
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

>I envy you Jim! The guy who owns the house next door has trash living
>there. Usually requires a monthly visit by the Sheriff's Dept. Love where I
>live and loathe my trashy neighbors! ;)

While not quite that bad, I'm in a similar situation. We love our home, it
has everything in it we want (or need), it's appreciating nicely -- but
we're planning on moving next year, when my daughter graduates from the
(excellent) neighborhood grade school.

It's nothing terrible, but we sure won't miss the lady across the street who
lets her yippy dogs bark at 6:30 AM every morning. And it won't be hard to
forget my idiot neighbors who fill their garages with junk so that they must
park their $30K SUVs on the street (making our road effectively one-lane,
especially in the winter when the plows can't get around them).

Probably gonna buy an old farm house outside of town, with 20 acres or so
around it. Maybe put in a grass strip...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

>> In closing, getting your pilot's certificate will be unlike anything
> you've
>> ever accomplished before -- I urge you to do it! That certificate, for
> me,
>> is far more significant and meaningful than my high school diploma, my
>> college degree, or any award or title I've won, before or since.
>
> How does it compare to the title of Husband? (just on the off chance that
> Mary is looking in <g> )

Well, it's on a different plane of existence (oooo, sorry!), but if we're
gonna go down *that* road...

I think the title of "Dad" is best of all!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Burns]

> I think the title of "Dad" is best of all!

Took the words right out of my mouth Jay!!

There are two titles, privileges, honors, and responsibilities that we will
carry to our graves, that of pilot, and that of father.

Jim

[W P Dixon]

My own strip that is my dream! ;) Well just as soon as my rich Uncle gets
out of the poor house! ;) Biggest thing here is finding enough land that is
flat enough. If I were still in Eastern KY I could just buy a abandoned
strip mine....they make my pretty mountains into treelesss flat runways! May
as well get some use out of the eyesores. ;)

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:nz58f.519568$xm3.480642@attbi_s21...
> >I envy you Jim! The guy who owns the house next door has trash living
> >there. Usually requires a monthly visit by the Sheriff's Dept. Love where
> >I live and loathe my trashy neighbors! ;)
>
> While not quite that bad, I'm in a similar situation. We love our home,
> it has everything in it we want (or need), it's appreciating nicely -- but
> we're planning on moving next year, when my daughter graduates from the
> (excellent) neighborhood grade school.
>
> It's nothing terrible, but we sure won't miss the lady across the street
> who lets her yippy dogs bark at 6:30 AM every morning. And it won't be
> hard to forget my idiot neighbors who fill their garages with junk so that
> they must park their $30K SUVs on the street (making our road effectively
> one-lane, especially in the winter when the plows can't get around them).
>
> Probably gonna buy an old farm house outside of town, with 20 acres or so
> around it. Maybe put in a grass strip...
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[George Patterson]

W P Dixon wrote:

> Biggest thing here is finding enough land
> that is flat enough.

Hey, there's plenty of flat land there. It's all vertical, though. :-)

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Jim Burns]

I'm in a bizarre double "but then" situation.

I've got room for a 1/2 mile grass strip, right in front of our house.
(This was a location requirement before building our house)

But then.... I would have to build a hanger... probably 40" x 50" with doors
on the back for garage stalls on each side of the tail.

But then ..... I would need another airplane, even though the Aztec would go
in and out of 1/2 mile grass, it really isn't a great idea with 8" prop
clearance and I wouldn't put that request before my other two partners.

As "bad" as this sounds, one of my partners already has this ideal situation
taken care of... he flys his C170 out of a grass strip right in front of his
house. Needless to say, he flys about 5 times as much as I do.

Jim


"W P Dixon" > wrote in message
...
> My own strip that is my dream! ;) Well just as soon as my rich Uncle gets
> out of the poor house! ;) Biggest thing here is finding enough land that
is
> flat enough. If I were still in Eastern KY I could just buy a abandoned
> strip mine....they make my pretty mountains into treelesss flat runways!
May
> as well get some use out of the eyesores. ;)
>
> Patrick
> student SP
> aircraft structural mech
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:nz58f.519568$xm3.480642@attbi_s21...
> > >I envy you Jim! The guy who owns the house next door has trash living
> > >there. Usually requires a monthly visit by the Sheriff's Dept. Love
where
> > >I live and loathe my trashy neighbors! ;)
> >
> > While not quite that bad, I'm in a similar situation. We love our home,
> > it has everything in it we want (or need), it's appreciating nicely --
but
> > we're planning on moving next year, when my daughter graduates from the
> > (excellent) neighborhood grade school.
> >
> > It's nothing terrible, but we sure won't miss the lady across the street
> > who lets her yippy dogs bark at 6:30 AM every morning. And it won't be
> > hard to forget my idiot neighbors who fill their garages with junk so
that
> > they must park their $30K SUVs on the street (making our road
effectively
> > one-lane, especially in the winter when the plows can't get around
them).
> >
> > Probably gonna buy an old farm house outside of town, with 20 acres or
so
> > around it. Maybe put in a grass strip...
> >
> > ;-)
> > --
> > Jay Honeck
> > Iowa City, IA
> > Pathfinder N56993
> > www.AlexisParkInn.com
> > "Your Aviation Destination"
> >
>

[W P Dixon]

Now Now Jim,
I am sure we all wish we had the problem of how big to build our hangar!
;) Remember , the bigger ..the more toys it holds!!!! ;) Just think of all
the fun stuff you get to buy to put in it. New rollaways.....more
tools....alittle project plane so you have something to really tinker on. Oh
and did I mention MORE TOOLS!!!! ;)

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> I'm in a bizarre double "but then" situation.
>
> I've got room for a 1/2 mile grass strip, right in front of our house.
> (This was a location requirement before building our house)
>
> But then.... I would have to build a hanger... probably 40" x 50" with
> doors
> on the back for garage stalls on each side of the tail.
>
> But then ..... I would need another airplane, even though the Aztec would
> go
> in and out of 1/2 mile grass, it really isn't a great idea with 8" prop
> clearance and I wouldn't put that request before my other two partners.
>
> As "bad" as this sounds, one of my partners already has this ideal
> situation
> taken care of... he flys his C170 out of a grass strip right in front of
> his
> house. Needless to say, he flys about 5 times as much as I do.
>
> Jim
>
>
> "W P Dixon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> My own strip that is my dream! ;) Well just as soon as my rich Uncle gets
>> out of the poor house! ;) Biggest thing here is finding enough land that
> is
>> flat enough. If I were still in Eastern KY I could just buy a abandoned
>> strip mine....they make my pretty mountains into treelesss flat runways!
> May
>> as well get some use out of the eyesores. ;)
>>
>> Patrick
>> student SP
>> aircraft structural mech
>>
>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>> news:nz58f.519568$xm3.480642@attbi_s21...
>> > >I envy you Jim! The guy who owns the house next door has trash living
>> > >there. Usually requires a monthly visit by the Sheriff's Dept. Love
> where
>> > >I live and loathe my trashy neighbors! ;)
>> >
>> > While not quite that bad, I'm in a similar situation. We love our
>> > home,
>> > it has everything in it we want (or need), it's appreciating nicely --
> but
>> > we're planning on moving next year, when my daughter graduates from the
>> > (excellent) neighborhood grade school.
>> >
>> > It's nothing terrible, but we sure won't miss the lady across the
>> > street
>> > who lets her yippy dogs bark at 6:30 AM every morning. And it won't
>> > be
>> > hard to forget my idiot neighbors who fill their garages with junk so
> that
>> > they must park their $30K SUVs on the street (making our road
> effectively
>> > one-lane, especially in the winter when the plows can't get around
> them).
>> >
>> > Probably gonna buy an old farm house outside of town, with 20 acres or
> so
>> > around it. Maybe put in a grass strip...
>> >
>> > ;-)
>> > --
>> > Jay Honeck
>> > Iowa City, IA
>> > Pathfinder N56993
>> > www.AlexisParkInn.com
>> > "Your Aviation Destination"
>> >
>>
>
>

[Jim Burns]

LMAO!!! Yep, if I did all that, I'd definately need a rollaway!
Jim

"W P Dixon" > wrote in message
...
> Now Now Jim,
> I am sure we all wish we had the problem of how big to build our
hangar!
> ;) Remember , the bigger ..the more toys it holds!!!! ;) Just think of all
> the fun stuff you get to buy to put in it. New rollaways.....more
> tools....alittle project plane so you have something to really tinker on.
Oh
> and did I mention MORE TOOLS!!!! ;)
>
> Patrick
> student SP
> aircraft structural mech
>
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm in a bizarre double "but then" situation.
> >
> > I've got room for a 1/2 mile grass strip, right in front of our house.
> > (This was a location requirement before building our house)
> >
> > But then.... I would have to build a hanger... probably 40" x 50" with
> > doors
> > on the back for garage stalls on each side of the tail.
> >
> > But then ..... I would need another airplane, even though the Aztec
would
> > go
> > in and out of 1/2 mile grass, it really isn't a great idea with 8" prop
> > clearance and I wouldn't put that request before my other two partners.
> >
> > As "bad" as this sounds, one of my partners already has this ideal
> > situation
> > taken care of... he flys his C170 out of a grass strip right in front of
> > his
> > house. Needless to say, he flys about 5 times as much as I do.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > "W P Dixon" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> My own strip that is my dream! ;) Well just as soon as my rich Uncle
gets
> >> out of the poor house! ;) Biggest thing here is finding enough land
that
> > is
> >> flat enough. If I were still in Eastern KY I could just buy a abandoned
> >> strip mine....they make my pretty mountains into treelesss flat
runways!
> > May
> >> as well get some use out of the eyesores. ;)
> >>
> >> Patrick
> >> student SP
> >> aircraft structural mech
> >>
> >> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> >> news:nz58f.519568$xm3.480642@attbi_s21...
> >> > >I envy you Jim! The guy who owns the house next door has trash
living
> >> > >there. Usually requires a monthly visit by the Sheriff's Dept. Love
> > where
> >> > >I live and loathe my trashy neighbors! ;)
> >> >
> >> > While not quite that bad, I'm in a similar situation. We love our
> >> > home,
> >> > it has everything in it we want (or need), it's appreciating
nicely --
> > but
> >> > we're planning on moving next year, when my daughter graduates from
the
> >> > (excellent) neighborhood grade school.
> >> >
> >> > It's nothing terrible, but we sure won't miss the lady across the
> >> > street
> >> > who lets her yippy dogs bark at 6:30 AM every morning. And it won't
> >> > be
> >> > hard to forget my idiot neighbors who fill their garages with junk so
> > that
> >> > they must park their $30K SUVs on the street (making our road
> > effectively
> >> > one-lane, especially in the winter when the plows can't get around
> > them).
> >> >
> >> > Probably gonna buy an old farm house outside of town, with 20 acres
or
> > so
> >> > around it. Maybe put in a grass strip...
> >> >
> >> > ;-)
> >> > --
> >> > Jay Honeck
> >> > Iowa City, IA
> >> > Pathfinder N56993
> >> > www.AlexisParkInn.com
> >> > "Your Aviation Destination"
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

[Dave Stadt]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:nz58f.519568$xm3.480642@attbi_s21...
> >I envy you Jim! The guy who owns the house next door has trash living
> >there. Usually requires a monthly visit by the Sheriff's Dept. Love where
I
> >live and loathe my trashy neighbors! ;)
>
> While not quite that bad, I'm in a similar situation. We love our home,
it
> has everything in it we want (or need), it's appreciating nicely -- but
> we're planning on moving next year, when my daughter graduates from the
> (excellent) neighborhood grade school.
>
> It's nothing terrible, but we sure won't miss the lady across the street
who
> lets her yippy dogs bark at 6:30 AM every morning. And it won't be hard
to
> forget my idiot neighbors who fill their garages with junk so that they
must
> park their $30K SUVs on the street (making our road effectively one-lane,
> especially in the winter when the plows can't get around them).
>
> Probably gonna buy an old farm house outside of town, with 20 acres or so
> around it. Maybe put in a grass strip...
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"


Possibility of a fly-in B&B?

[Jim Burns]

I'd have to do some of that also, but at least it's sand land. We've got
some pretty big front end loaders, dump trucks, a motor grader and a
scraper, but no dozer. It may take me awhile, but it would be as much fun
as being a little kid in a sand box!! :)
Jim

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "George Patterson" > wrote
>
> > Hey, there's plenty of flat land there. It's all vertical, though. :-)
>
> I have often thought about getting a chunk of land around here (Western
NC)
> and getting a big ol' dozer. I could then spend a good chunk of spare
time
> chopping off two hills and filling in the middle, to make a runway.
>
> That is one of the only ways to have a runway around here, unless you pay
a
> fortune for flat land, OR get it in the middle of large populations, OR on
a
> flood plain, where the next worse thing to flooding is frequent morning or
> evening ground fog.
>
> It helps that I like earth moving equipment! ;-)
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[W P Dixon]

Ok Jim,
I'll take a bobcat on this hill and you take one on yours and we'll
meet in the middle! ;)
I keep looking over in the Blountville area, and I'd love to have a
place in Shady Valley,...but that would be a realllll bad drive to work for
my wife in winter. Not that easy during the summer.

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "George Patterson" > wrote
>
>> Hey, there's plenty of flat land there. It's all vertical, though. :-)
>
> I have often thought about getting a chunk of land around here (Western
> NC)
> and getting a big ol' dozer. I could then spend a good chunk of spare
> time
> chopping off two hills and filling in the middle, to make a runway.
>
> That is one of the only ways to have a runway around here, unless you pay
> a
> fortune for flat land, OR get it in the middle of large populations, OR on
> a
> flood plain, where the next worse thing to flooding is frequent morning or
> evening ground fog.
>
> It helps that I like earth moving equipment! ;-)
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[Morgans]

"George Patterson" > wrote

> Hey, there's plenty of flat land there. It's all vertical, though. :-)

I have often thought about getting a chunk of land around here (Western NC)
and getting a big ol' dozer. I could then spend a good chunk of spare time
chopping off two hills and filling in the middle, to make a runway.

That is one of the only ways to have a runway around here, unless you pay a
fortune for flat land, OR get it in the middle of large populations, OR on a
flood plain, where the next worse thing to flooding is frequent morning or
evening ground fog.

It helps that I like earth moving equipment! ;-)
--
Jim in NC

[Matt Whiting]

W P Dixon wrote:

> My own strip that is my dream! ;) Well just as soon as my rich Uncle
> gets out of the poor house! ;) Biggest thing here is finding enough land
> that is flat enough. If I were still in Eastern KY I could just buy a
> abandoned strip mine....they make my pretty mountains into treelesss
> flat runways! May as well get some use out of the eyesores. ;)

I have the same dream, but my land is rolling hillsides and it would
take a LOT of excavation to make a runway even 1500' long. Now a
Rotorway.... :-)

Matt

[George Patterson]

W P Dixon wrote:

> I'll take a bobcat on this hill and you take one on yours and we'll
> meet in the middle! ;)

A bobcat? Man, you are a real glutton for punishment.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Montblack]

("George Patterson" wrote)
>> I'll take a bobcat on this hill and you take one on yours and we'll
>> meet in the middle! ;)

> A bobcat? Man, you are a real glutton for punishment.


A friend rented a walk-behind bobcat type machine for knocking down a berm
in his yard. It operated it like a big bad-a** snowblower ...only with
treads, a bucket and some 'hoist' levers that were counterintuitive for me,
because they were opposite from the machines in my old forklift days.

Yup, that was different - I kept dumping my load when I wanted the bucket to
tilt up. I got it pretty well figured out by the time the berm was
completely knocked down and spread around :-)

Tricking an old dog.


Montblack

[W P Dixon]

HEE HEE,
Yep they are small, but they are a hoot to play around on. Not to mention
on my budget I could rent one! ;) If I can find someplace decent I won't
worry to much , can borrow a Ford tractor and scraper blade. We have an acre
and half(? guesstimation?) here, but it goes up to the top of the ridge at
the TN/VA line.

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:9eg8f.7309$c%.6808@trndny02...
>W P Dixon wrote:
>
>> I'll take a bobcat on this hill and you take one on yours and we'll
>> meet in the middle! ;)
>
> A bobcat? Man, you are a real glutton for punishment.
>
> George Patterson
> Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your
> neighbor.
> It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Morgans]

"W P Dixon" > wrote in message
...
> Ok Jim,
> I'll take a bobcat on this hill and you take one on yours and we'll
> meet in the middle! ;)
> I keep looking over in the Blountville area, and I'd love to have a
> place in Shady Valley,...but that would be a realllll bad drive to work
for
> my wife in winter. Not that easy during the summer.

Bobcat? Ha! You'll meet me in the middle in 6 or 8 years!

Bobcats are great for moving a little fill around, or clearing for a
sidewalk. Try to start digging deep, or undisturbed clay and rock, and you
will soon be wanting something MUCH bigger.

I recently was having a basement dug for a house, and hit a layer of the
HARD variety of granite. It didn't take long to realize that it was going
to take a few sticks of dynamite to get it to "leave." It did leave, with
the encouragement of about 7 sticks. <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Montblack" > wrote

> It operated it like a big bad-a** snowblower ...only with
> treads, a bucket and some 'hoist' levers that were counterintuitive for
me,
> because they were opposite from the machines in my old forklift days.
>
> Yup, that was different - I kept dumping my load when I wanted the bucket
to
> tilt up. I got it pretty well figured out by the time the berm was
> completely knocked down and spread around :-)

At one time, the local equipment rental place had a Bobcat, and a New
Holland brand skid steer. They were both about the same size, but one hat
the controls for the bucket on the feet, wheels with the hands. The other
machine was completely opposite. Wanna' talk confused, when going from one
to the other? <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck]

> Possibility of a fly-in B&B?

We *are* discussing moving into the inn (essentially a fly-in B&B, on
steroids) while we look for the "perfect" home with enough land for a
landing strip.

Trouble is, I'm afraid we'd get so used to it, that we'd never leave. It
makes SO much financial sense, but... We really like being able to "go
home" at the end of the day, and leave the place in the able hands of our
night manager, who does live on-site.

We'll see how it unfolds. We've got lots of irons in the fire right now...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jose]

> We really like being able to "go
> home" at the end of the day, and leave the place in the able hands of our
> night manager, who does live on-site.

You'd be going farther away from the airport.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jay Honeck]

> > We really like being able to "go
> > home" at the end of the day, and leave the place in the able hands of our
> > night manager, who does live on-site.
>
> You'd be going farther away from the airport.

Only until we found the perfect piece of land upon which to build our
*own* airport!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom Conner]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> > > We really like being able to "go
> > > home" at the end of the day, and leave the place in the able hands of
our
> > > night manager, who does live on-site.
> >
> > You'd be going farther away from the airport.
>
> Only until we found the perfect piece of land upon which to build our
> *own* airport!

That's great to be able to buy enough land for a runway. Where I live it
just seems like every year there are more people trying to buy the same land
that the prices have gone beyond buying an "airport". How much longer
before the overflow reaches your area?

[Jay Honeck]

> That's great to be able to buy enough land for a runway. Where I live it
> just seems like every year there are more people trying to buy the same land
> that the prices have gone beyond buying an "airport". How much longer
> before the overflow reaches your area?

Um, well, have you flown over the Midwest? Outside of the cities --
which are relatively few, and far between -- there are thousands of
square miles of farmland and forest.

I don't think we'll be worrying about "urban sprawl" in the Midwest for
a few hundred years, soonest.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>That's great to be able to buy enough land for a runway. Where I live it
>>just seems like every year there are more people trying to buy the same land
>>that the prices have gone beyond buying an "airport". How much longer
>>before the overflow reaches your area?
>
>
> Um, well, have you flown over the Midwest? Outside of the cities --
> which are relatively few, and far between -- there are thousands of
> square miles of farmland and forest.
>
> I don't think we'll be worrying about "urban sprawl" in the Midwest for
> a few hundred years, soonest.

And by then the urban folks will be gone as they will have starved from
lack of food from the farms in the midwest that are no longer... :-)

Matt

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"John T" > wrote in message
m...
>
> The same authority that allowed creation of the Department of State, the
> Department of Defense, etc. My guess is it's within the realm of Article
> 2, Section 2. There's also Article 1, Section 8, Clause 18.
>
> But I'm not a Constitutional lawyer.
>

I can see Constitutional authority for the Department of Defense in Clauses
11 through 16 of Article 1 Section 8, and I can see Constitutional authority
for the Department of State in Clauses 3 and 10, and also in Article 2,
Section 2, Clause 2. But I don't see any Constitutional authority for the
Department of Agriculture anywhere in the Constitution. Could you be more
specific?

[cjcampbell]

AJ wrote:
>
> Presently a mall security truck drove up and the guard told us to
> disperse because we were breaking the law.

I think a stern letter to the mall would be in order. The guard has the
right to ask you to leave mall property, no more and no less.
Protecting a neighboring airport greatly exceeds what he was hired to
do. Threatening to call the police is highly questionable and
threatening people with his baton could land him in jail. You would
have been well within your rights to call the police and file a
complaint.

[Skylune]

An ex- NYer, actually. Completed the sale of my NY home and will be living
in New Hampshire full time soon. Thanx for the advice on the plane. I'll
be making a decision shortly, after the moving chaos is over.

[Jay Honeck]

> An ex- NYer, actually. Completed the sale of my NY home and will be living
> in New Hampshire full time soon.

Ya gotta love a state whose motto is "Live Free or Die"...

;-)

> Thanx for the advice on the plane. I'll
> be making a decision shortly, after the moving chaos is over.

Keep posting. You may even want to check out rec.aviation.owning, when
you get serious.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Skylune]

I did mean the 172. Thats the bird my friend flies in from LI. Although
there may be some destiny at work here: Skylune, Skylane... LOL.

[Skylune]

Jay said: "Keep posting. You may even want to check out
rec.aviation.owning, when
you get serious."

Well, I will never get totally serious: its just not in my genetic
makeup.

(New Hampshire is a better state for me than NY. The tax savings alone
would more than offset the costs of flight training.)

[Gary Drescher]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> An ex- NYer, actually. Completed the sale of my NY home and will be
>> living
>> in New Hampshire full time soon.
>
> Ya gotta love a state whose motto is "Live Free or Die"...

With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who had religious
objections to the motto and taped over it on their own license plates. The
ACLU came to the rescue in Wooley v Maynard.

--Gary

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
>
> With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who had religious
> objections to the motto and taped over it on their own license plates.

What were the religious objections?

[Gary Drescher]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who had
>> religious objections to the motto and taped over it on their own license
>> plates.
>
> What were the religious objections?

I don't know. From a Constitutional standpoint, though, the only issue was
that they deeply disagreed with an idea that they were being forced by the
government to conspicuously advertise on their own cars; their reasons for
disagreeing were beside the point.

--Gary

[Lakeview Bill]

Actually, it wasn't about religion.

It was just a bunch of left-wing hippie wacko's who claimed that New
Hampshire wasn't truly free, whatever that means.

The state took action based on laws banning defacing license plates.



"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who had
> >> religious objections to the motto and taped over it on their own
license
> >> plates.
> >
> > What were the religious objections?
>
> I don't know. From a Constitutional standpoint, though, the only issue was
> that they deeply disagreed with an idea that they were being forced by the
> government to conspicuously advertise on their own cars; their reasons for
> disagreeing were beside the point.
>
> --Gary
>
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
>
> I don't know. From a Constitutional standpoint, though, the only issue was
> that they deeply disagreed with an idea that they were being forced by the
> government to conspicuously advertise on their own cars; their reasons for
> disagreeing were beside the point.
>

So why did you say they were religious objections?

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
...
>
> It was just a bunch of left-wing hippie wacko's who claimed that New
> Hampshire wasn't truly free, whatever that means.
>

It means you're forced to do things you wouldn't otherwise do. How ironic
that most of the things forced on us are the products of left-wing wacko
politicians.

[Gary Drescher]

"Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
...
> Actually, it wasn't about religion.
>
> It was just a bunch of left-wing hippie wacko's who claimed that New
> Hampshire wasn't truly free, whatever that means.

No, you're just making that up, which is why you don't mention any source.

If you looked up the case I cited, you'd see that the defendent (there was
just one, not a "bunch") was a Jehovah's Witness whose objection to the
slogan was explicitly religious.

--Gary

> The state took action based on laws banning defacing license plates.
>
>
>
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
>> nk.net...
>> >
>> > "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who had
>> >> religious objections to the motto and taped over it on their own
> license
>> >> plates.
>> >
>> > What were the religious objections?
>>
>> I don't know. From a Constitutional standpoint, though, the only issue
>> was
>> that they deeply disagreed with an idea that they were being forced by
>> the
>> government to conspicuously advertise on their own cars; their reasons
>> for
>> disagreeing were beside the point.
>>
>> --Gary
>>
>>
>
>

[Gary Drescher]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> I don't know. From a Constitutional standpoint, though, the only issue
>> was that they deeply disagreed with an idea that they were being forced
>> by the government to conspicuously advertise on their own cars; their
>> reasons for disagreeing were beside the point.
>
> So why did you say they were religious objections?

Because they were. It's a matter of record. Look up the case I cited.

--Gary

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
>
> Because they were. It's a matter of record. Look up the case I cited.
>

But you said their reasons for disagreeing were beside the point. Do you
know what your point is?

[Skylune]

"With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who had
religious

objections to the motto and taped over it on their own license plates.
The

ACLU came to the rescue in Wooley v Maynard.

--Gary"

You have a good memory. The case revolved around the state's contention
that covering up a portion (people were using a strip of electrical tape)
of the license plate was illegal. I'm not sure how it was resolved.
Today, there are some who purchase licence plate holders that hide the
state motto. Not me of course - I removed the plate holder as soon as I
got my wheels into my garage. So its Live Free or Die on the back of my
car (with the anysoldier.com hat).

This leads to a question about airplanes. Its probably a stupid question,
but what the hell...
Old warbirds have names on the fuselage (I saw the Memphis Belle about a
month ago -- that was pretty cool). Why don't small private planes have
names on them?

[Gary Drescher]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Because they were. It's a matter of record. Look up the case I cited.
>
> But you said their reasons for disagreeing were beside the point. Do you
> know what your point is?

Huh? Are you saying that when speaking of a legal case, one should not
include even a single word (in this case, the word "religious") that
mentions a detail that did not matter to the resolution of the case? That
would be a very peculiar expository restriction.

--Gary

[Skylune]

"It means you're forced to do things you wouldn't otherwise do. How
ironic

that most of the things forced on us are the products of left-wing wacko
politicians."

Having now officially severed all (real estate) ties from New Yawk, I can
definitively say that the Right Wing Whackos are infinitely superior to
the Left Wing Whackos.

[Gary Drescher]

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
>> "With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who
>> had religious objections to the motto and taped over it on their own
>> license plates. The ACLU came to the rescue in Wooley v Maynard.
>
> You have a good memory. The case revolved around the state's contention
> that covering up a portion (people were using a strip of electrical tape)
> of the license plate was illegal. I'm not sure how it was resolved.

The ACLU won. Freedom prevailed.

--Gary

[Skylune]

"Because they were. It's a matter of record. Look up the case I cited.

--Gary"


Many up here have different takes on the state motto. I saw a car that
had a bumper sticker stating: "New Hampshire: Live, Freeze, then die."

My own take is Live, Ski or Die.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
>
> Huh? Are you saying that when speaking of a legal case, one should not
> include even a single word (in this case, the word "religious") that
> mentions a detail that did not matter to the resolution of the case? That
> would be a very peculiar expository restriction.
>

It's peculiar that you went out of your way to say they were religious
objections while apparently believing religion was not a factor.

[Lynne]

LOL, Lynne has struck again!
Got you guys good this time.

[Gary Drescher]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Huh? Are you saying that when speaking of a legal case, one should not
>> include even a single word (in this case, the word "religious") that
>> mentions a detail that did not matter to the resolution of the case? That
>> would be a very peculiar expository restriction.
>
> It's peculiar that you went out of your way to say they were religious
> objections while apparently believing religion was not a factor.

You haven't said what you consider peculiar about that, unless you do
subscribe to the expository principle I just mentioned. Do you?

--Gary

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
>
> You haven't said what you consider peculiar about that, unless you do
> subscribe to the expository principle I just mentioned. Do you?
>

It's peculiar that you went out of your way to say they were religious
objections while apparently believing religion was not a factor.

[Gary Drescher]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>>> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Huh? Are you saying that when speaking of a legal case, one should not
>>>> include even a single word (in this case, the word "religious") that
>>>> mentions a detail that did not matter to the resolution of the case?
>>>> That would be a very peculiar expository restriction.
>>>
>>> It's peculiar that you went out of your way to say they were religious
>>> objections while apparently believing religion was not a factor.
>>
>> You haven't said what you consider peculiar about that, unless you do
>> subscribe to the expository principle I just mentioned. Do you?
>
> It's peculiar that you went out of your way to say they were religious
> objections while apparently believing religion was not a factor.

Oops, you've gotten stuck in a loop, Steven. Instead of answering my
question, you ignored what I said and repeated your prior statement. So if
you want to pursue this absurdist tangent further, I'll leave you to
continue talking to yourself.

--Gary

[Skylune]

Gary wrote: "The ACLU won. Freedom prevailed.

--Gary"

Irony II: Freedom to disavow the state motto of "Live free or die."
Freedom provided by the sweat and blood of many young Americans. As the
Anysoldier.com website states, "Freedom isn't free" (shameless
endorsement of a fantastic charity).

I wonder if the ACLU would not protect your "freedom" to fly, or even my
freedom to bear arms, despite the fact that my freedom is enshrined in the
Constitution.

[Gary Drescher]

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> I wonder if the ACLU would not protect your "freedom" to fly, or even my
> freedom to bear arms, despite the fact that my freedom is enshrined in the
> Constitution.

You're much better at aviation trolling than at political trolling. :)

--Gary

[W P Dixon]

The case was founded to be a violation of the First Amendment..Freedom of
Speech. Which the court said Freedom of Speech means the freedom not to
speak. The guy just happened to be a Jehovah's Witness, but that did not
enter into the courts reason of why he should be allowed to cover that
saying on the plate. See below..

Wooley v. Maynard
430 U.S. 705 (1977)
Docket Number: 75-1453
Abstract



Argued:
November 29, 1976

Decided:
April 20, 1977


Subjects: Judicial Power: First Amendment



Facts of the Case
A New Hampshire law required all noncommercial vehicles to bear
license plates containing the state motto "Live Free or Die." George
Maynard, a Jehovah's Witness, found the motto to be contrary to his
religious and political beliefs and cut the words "or Die" off his plate.
Maynard was convicted of violating the state law and was subsequently fined
and given a jail sentence.


Question Presented
Did the New Hampshire law unconstitutionally interfere with the
freedom of speech guaranteed by the First Amendment?


Conclusion
In a 6-to-3 decision, the Court held that New Hampshire could not
constitutionally require citizens to display the state motto upon their
vehicle license plates. The Court found that the statute in question
effectively required individuals to "use their private property as a 'mobile
billboard' for the State's ideological message." The Court held that the
State's interests in requiring the motto did not outweigh free speech
principles under the First Amendment, including "the right of individuals to
hold a point of view different from the majority and to refuse to foster. .
..an idea they find morally objectionable."




Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech


"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
> "Skylune" > wrote in message
> lkaboutaviation.com...
>> I wonder if the ACLU would not protect your "freedom" to fly, or even my
>> freedom to bear arms, despite the fact that my freedom is enshrined in
>> the
>> Constitution.
>
> You're much better at aviation trolling than at political trolling. :)
>
> --Gary
>
>

[Lakeview Bill]

First, your contention that I am "making it up" is synonymous with calling
me a liar. I didn't make it up, I'm not a liar, and I expect an apology.

Second, if you pay any attention to aviation matters, you should be familiar
with the disputes revolving around the expansion of O'Hare Airport. Look at
the reasons put forth for some of these people's objections. There is often
a great variance between peoples stated reasons for something and their true
reasons.

It may have been the case of people professing to be Jehovah's Witnesses
that resulted in the definitive ruling on the matter, but they were by no
means the only people involved in the protest. Once a judicial precedent is
set in one case, it is not necessary to litigate every single case.

I no longer have access to the post where you cited the particular case. If
you will repost it, I will be happy to take a look.



"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Actually, it wasn't about religion.
> >
> > It was just a bunch of left-wing hippie wacko's who claimed that New
> > Hampshire wasn't truly free, whatever that means.
>
> No, you're just making that up, which is why you don't mention any source.
>
> If you looked up the case I cited, you'd see that the defendent (there was
> just one, not a "bunch") was a Jehovah's Witness whose objection to the
> slogan was explicitly religious.
>
> --Gary
>
> > The state took action based on laws banning defacing license plates.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
> >> nk.net...
> >> >
> >> > "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >>
> >> >> With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who had
> >> >> religious objections to the motto and taped over it on their own
> > license
> >> >> plates.
> >> >
> >> > What were the religious objections?
> >>
> >> I don't know. From a Constitutional standpoint, though, the only issue
> >> was
> >> that they deeply disagreed with an idea that they were being forced by
> >> the
> >> government to conspicuously advertise on their own cars; their reasons
> >> for
> >> disagreeing were beside the point.
> >>
> >> --Gary
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Skylune]

"You're much better at aviation trolling than at political trolling. :)

--Gary"

Hmmm. Can one be a "political troller?" I think if you participate in
the process then, by definition, you are not a troll. If I correctly
understand the definition of troll, that is.

If and when I restart my training, will I be instantly transformed from
AvTroll to simple critic? Or do I need to first pass the check ride? Not
that the "troll" label upsets me in any way. I'm just curious.

I'm also very curious as to why GA planes aren't named. Maybe some are,
but I haven't seen 'em. If I can get my ticket and then buy a plane, damn
it, I'm gonna paint a name on it!

[Gary Drescher]

"Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> There is often
> a great variance between peoples stated reasons for something and their
> true
> reasons.

Yes, but how is that relevant here? Are you suggesting that the Jehovah's
Witness was really a "left-wing hippie" (as you put it below) disguising his
true identity and objections?

> It may have been the case of people professing to be Jehovah's Witnesses
> that resulted in the definitive ruling on the matter, but they were by no
> means the only people involved in the protest.

It wasn't a protest. Maynard simply refrained from promoting a belief he
disagreed with. There may well be others who disagreed with that belief for
other reasons--I never suggested otherwise--but they were not involved in
the case I cited (Wooley v Maynard), and there is nothing to support your
claim that the objection to the motto flatly "wasn't about religion".

> your contention that I am "making it up" is synonymous with calling
> me a liar.

You're being melodramatic. If I'd meant to say you were lying, I wouldn't
have euphemized.

You did, however, state as fact (but without trying to provide any factual
support) that (contrary to what I'd just asserted) there was *no* religious
objection to the motto, but rather "just" some "hippies'" political
objections. Passing off as fact a false statement that you did not take a
moment to factually investigate is what I'd characterize as making it up,
even if you did not actually know your remark was false (and thus were just
being sloppy, rather than lying).

--Gary

Gary:
>With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who had religious
>objections to the motto and taped over it on their own license plates. The
>ACLU came to the rescue in Wooley v Maynard.

Bill:
> Actually, it wasn't about religion.
>
> It was just a bunch of left-wing hippie wacko's who claimed that New
> Hampshire wasn't truly free, whatever that means.

[Matt Whiting]

Skylune wrote:

> "It means you're forced to do things you wouldn't otherwise do. How
> ironic
>
> that most of the things forced on us are the products of left-wing wacko
> politicians."
>
> Having now officially severed all (real estate) ties from New Yawk, I can
> definitively say that the Right Wing Whackos are infinitely superior to
> the Left Wing Whackos.
>

That's because we are right. :-)

Matt

[George Patterson]

Skylune wrote:

> Why don't small private planes have names on them?

Some do.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
>
> Oops, you've gotten stuck in a loop, Steven. Instead of answering my
> question, you ignored what I said and repeated your prior statement.

I repeated the answer to your question.

[Cub Driver]

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:55:55 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:

>> With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who had religious
>> objections to the motto and taped over it on their own license plates.
>
>What were the religious objections?

The objections weren't religious, of course. They were political.

Nor have I ever heard of anyone being imprisoned for taping over "Live
Free or Die".

However, it used to be true that the plates were manufactured in the
state prison. (Probably now outsourced to China :)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Gary Drescher]

"Cub Driver" <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:55:55 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> > wrote:
>
>>> With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who had
>>> religious
>>> objections to the motto and taped over it on their own license plates.
>>
>>What were the religious objections?
>
> The objections weren't religious, of course. They were political.
>
> Nor have I ever heard of anyone being imprisoned for taping over "Live
> Free or Die".

How can you "never have heard" of it? The message of mine that you're
responding to (the one that's partially quoted above) already cited a
particular case in which the imprisonment (of a Jehovah's Witness, who had
religious objections to the motto) occurred.

--Gary

[W P Dixon]

The guy went to jail for 15 days for not paying his fine...two of them. I
don't think they had him working on a chain gang or anything. "Drinking some
water here BOSS!" ;) The term imprisonment makes it seem like he was sent to
a hard core penal colony, maybe jailed is a better word?
I wonder if while he was in jail if he went around to all the other jail
cells and bugged the ever living crap out of all the inmates? ;)

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
> "Cub Driver" <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:55:55 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>> With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who had
>>>> religious
>>>> objections to the motto and taped over it on their own license plates.
>>>
>>>What were the religious objections?
>>
>> The objections weren't religious, of course. They were political.
>>
>> Nor have I ever heard of anyone being imprisoned for taping over "Live
>> Free or Die".
>
> How can you "never have heard" of it? The message of mine that you're
> responding to (the one that's partially quoted above) already cited a
> particular case in which the imprisonment (of a Jehovah's Witness, who had
> religious objections to the motto) occurred.
>
> --Gary
>
>

[BDS]

"Skylune" > wrote

> If and when I restart my training, will I be instantly transformed from
> AvTroll to simple critic?

No, you will be transformed from Troll to Hypocrite.

[Jay Honeck]

> I'm also very curious as to why GA planes aren't named. Maybe some are,
> but I haven't seen 'em. If I can get my ticket and then buy a plane, damn
> it, I'm gonna paint a name on it!

I met a fellow who flew a Mooney named "Blue Bird". He had it painted on
the side.

Do a Google search on "Final Flight" and you can read about this grand old
gentleman.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom Conner]

"Cub Driver" <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:55:55 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> > wrote:
>
> >> With famous irony, New Hampshire used to imprison people who had
religious
> >> objections to the motto and taped over it on their own license plates.
> >
> >What were the religious objections?
>
> The objections weren't religious, of course. They were political.
>
> Nor have I ever heard of anyone being imprisoned for taping over "Live
> Free or Die".
>
> However, it used to be true that the plates were manufactured in the
> state prison. (Probably now outsourced to China :)
>
>
> -- all the best, Dan Ford

Saw your article yesterday in the new AOPA Pilot magazine. Were you in any
of the pictures?

[[email protected]]

>
> My wife and I were once harassed by two Chicago Police officers when we
> approached the Meigs Field terminal several years ago... this was in the
> late 1990s, after the police had "confiscated" the second floor of the
> terminal to use as office space.

It was the "station" for lakefront police patrols.

We were asked about our business at
> the airport, to which we responded that we were pilots who had never
> been to Meigs and wanted to look inside the terminal. At that point, we
> were promptly told to leave the property because the airport "isn't open
> to the public." We came back later, when we encountered no police and
> were able to enter the terminal and observation deck. We all know how
> that book eventually ended.

Yeah, rock and roll! And the terminal itself houses injured birds.

JG

[Jay Honeck]

>> -- all the best, Dan Ford
>
> Saw your article yesterday in the new AOPA Pilot magazine. Were you in
> any
> of the pictures?

Me, too, Dan. Great job!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[AJ]

Yep. Now it's the city that's bailing out everybody else.

AJ