Damaged aircraft - should I pay?

[Hilton]

Hi,

Right now (1pm West Coast time) on cnn.com, there is a picture of numerous
overturned planes. Presumably insurance pays for this and since I pay for
insurance, should I feel a bit bummed that these owners didn't fly their
planes to safety and help lower my insurance costs? Taking it to the other
extreme, perhaps some owners wanted to upgrade from a 172 to a 182 (for
example) and... Sorry, I just don't get it.

Thanks,

Hilton

[Skylune]

Well, its even worse than you think. The owners/pilots simply abandoned
their old pipers and cessnas to the hurricane's winds in order to collect
the insurance proceeds. They wanted to get what they could before the
ADIZ is approved and expanded, before the user fees kick in, and due to
the historically high price of Avgas.

Its like when a slumlord torches his apartment building to (1) get rid of
the nuisance and (2) collect a few bucks in the process.

[Peter R.]

Hilton > wrote:

> Right now (1pm West Coast time) on cnn.com, there is a picture of numerous
> overturned planes. Presumably insurance pays for this and since I pay for
> insurance, should I feel a bit bummed that these owners didn't fly their
> planes to safety and help lower my insurance costs? Taking it to the other
> extreme, perhaps some owners wanted to upgrade from a 172 to a 182 (for
> example) and... Sorry, I just don't get it.

Using this same mindset, one could also criticise the pilot who attempts to
save the aircraft during an engine failure or fuel starvation emergency,
rather than the people inside.

There are more important priorities in life than possessions.

--
Peter
























----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Hilton" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Hi,
>
> Right now (1pm West Coast time) on cnn.com, there is a picture of numerous
> overturned planes. Presumably insurance pays for this and since I pay for
> insurance, should I feel a bit bummed that these owners didn't fly their
> planes to safety and help lower my insurance costs? Taking it to the
> other extreme, perhaps some owners wanted to upgrade from a 172 to a 182
> (for example) and... Sorry, I just don't get it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hilton
>
>

Remember, those folks had to prioritize thinks in there life. Maybe the
plane didn't make the cut.

[W P Dixon]

Correct!,
Let's see I have 4 or 5 days notice. I have to spend most of one day
standing in line getting enough plywood to cover the house to try to protect
that major investment..that by the way the entire family benefits from. Now
I have the plywood, I spend another 2 days or even more getting it all up
around the house ( oh yes did I mention my job still requires that I be at
work ?) Then you have all the get the family things together time. Now you
are in fact running out of time to "get gone". Do you drive a car and your
wife take hers as well...if you can save them you both have your way to work
when you get back. Do you put the entire family on a plane ( which may or
may not even be able to carry your whole family).
OH NO, someone shouts almost to late! We almost forgot about Spot the
mangy mutt! Well that settles it, no room for the dog in the plane, we need
our cars. We have a Uhaul rented with some of our stuff in it just in case.
So now even the beloved family boat has to stay put as well. I sure wish I
could have got the plane out of here but MAN, just did not have time trying
to get my home and family together.
I would guess that scenario happens alot during those times. I love
airplanes..but my family comes number 1. I think that's how most folks would
feel about it.

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
news:IMb7f.49175$b65.9251@okepread01...
>
> "Hilton" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> Hi,
>>
>> Right now (1pm West Coast time) on cnn.com, there is a picture of
>> numerous overturned planes. Presumably insurance pays for this and since
>> I pay for insurance, should I feel a bit bummed that these owners didn't
>> fly their planes to safety and help lower my insurance costs? Taking it
>> to the other extreme, perhaps some owners wanted to upgrade from a 172 to
>> a 182 (for example) and... Sorry, I just don't get it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Hilton
>>
>>
>
> Remember, those folks had to prioritize thinks in there life. Maybe the
> plane didn't make the cut.
>

[gatt]

"Hilton" > wrote in message news:O5b7f.1103
> Right now (1pm West Coast time) on cnn.com, there is a picture of
> >numerous overturned planes. Presumably insurance pays for this and
> >since I pay for insurance, should I feel a bit bummed that these owners
> >didn't fly their planes to safety and help lower my insurance costs?

That assumes the aircraft were airworthy, the weather was flyable as
equipped, the pilots were current, that they didn't have higher some
more-substantial priority, and that they didn't in fact try to move them
someplace safe.

After Hurricane Andrew, for example, I volunteered for a day at an FBO at
Baton Rouge to which planes from New Orleans had been evacuated. The storm
missed NOLA and hit Baton Rouge and the flight line looked like airplane
wrecking yard.

-c

[John]

A plane is just like any other investment. Although if I owned one, I
think it would be my most beloved material possession and would work
hard to protect it.

But, you often have to decide . . . getting the family to higher ground
or protecting the property. Then you get to decide which piece of
property . . . the house that everyone lives in . . . or the plane . .
.. or the boat . . . or . . . (whatever). Sometimes the
family/property question is in the form of an "either or" question,
not both.

If you fly out, how do you get back to take care of the family?
Airlines will typically cancel service 24 or more hours before the
storm's arrival. The dead time of driving back from any appreciable
distance is critical time wasted.

Finally, you never can be sure if by moving you are not going from bad
to worse. I have friends in South Florida who didn't leave when
Andrew approached. They could go North or South (though not too far).
When I asked (in quite colorful language) why they didn't bug out,
they replied there was uncertainty where exactly the storm would
strike, forecast information was confusing, and they didn't know
until it was too late which way to run. Even with days of warning, a
lot of what you have to do is very last minute.

Finally it has always been about all of us paying for choices that
other pilots make. I would much rather help pay for this type of
settlement, then for the pilot who ran out of gas on a clear day
because he or she decided to stretch things too far.

[RomeoMike]

Look on the bright side: maybe the loss of all those planes will make
yours more valuable and offset the incresed insurance premium:-( Maybe
the premiums will only increase for people in hurricane alley, though I
don't know.


Hilton wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Right now (1pm West Coast time) on cnn.com, there is a picture of numerous
> overturned planes. Presumably insurance pays for this and since I pay for
> insurance, should I feel a bit bummed that these owners didn't fly their
> planes to safety and help lower my insurance costs? Taking it to the other
> extreme, perhaps some owners wanted to upgrade from a 172 to a 182 (for
> example) and... Sorry, I just don't get it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hilton
>
>

[Michelle P]

Hilton,
My insurance company will pay for the relocation expenses. Flight cost
and hotel for duration.
Hey we are all paying for the re-building of New Orleans. That bums me
out. I should not have to pay for some one else's mistake.
Michelle

Hilton wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Right now (1pm West Coast time) on cnn.com, there is a picture of numerous
>overturned planes. Presumably insurance pays for this and since I pay for
>insurance, should I feel a bit bummed that these owners didn't fly their
>planes to safety and help lower my insurance costs? Taking it to the other
>extreme, perhaps some owners wanted to upgrade from a 172 to a 182 (for
>example) and... Sorry, I just don't get it.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Hilton
>
>
>
>

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Morgans wrote:
>> Let's see I have 4 or 5 days notice. I have to spend most of one day
>> standing in line getting enough plywood to cover the house to try to protect
>> that major investment..that by the way the entire family benefits from.
>
> I don't buy it. You would only have to move the plane 60 miles or so.
> There is time in there to move "that" major investment, also.


I flew the night Hurricane Hugo showed up *towards* the storm (for my job) and
tied the aircraft to the best of my ability out on the flightline. Gust locks,
etc... everything I could do to make it secure. When I was finally able to get
back to the airport three days later my airplane was fine. It was the ones in
the hangars that took the hit.... fallen trees caused the roof to collapse,
squashing the planes within.

Sometimes it's just a matter of luck. And frankly, nobody expected Hugo to
amount to much more than a windy night since we were a good 150 NM from the
coast.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Mike Rapoport]

"Hilton" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Hi,
>
> Right now (1pm West Coast time) on cnn.com, there is a picture of numerous
> overturned planes. Presumably insurance pays for this and since I pay for
> insurance, should I feel a bit bummed that these owners didn't fly their
> planes to safety and help lower my insurance costs? Taking it to the
> other extreme, perhaps some owners wanted to upgrade from a 172 to a 182
> (for example) and... Sorry, I just don't get it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hilton
>
>
When you buy insurance you are agreeing to pool your risk with others. If
you don't want to participate in the consequences of other people's decision
making, don't buy insurance.

Mike
MU-2

[Morgans]

"W P Dixon" > wrote

> Let's see I have 4 or 5 days notice. I have to spend most of one day
> standing in line getting enough plywood to cover the house to try to
protect
> that major investment..that by the way the entire family benefits from.

I don't buy it. You would only have to move the plane 60 miles or so.
There is time in there to move "that" major investment, also.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"John" > wrote

> Finally, you never can be sure if by moving you are not going from bad
> to worse. I have friends in South Florida who didn't leave when
> Andrew approached. They could go North or South (though not too far).
> When I asked (in quite colorful language) why they didn't bug out,
> they replied there was uncertainty where exactly the storm would
> strike, forecast information was confusing, and they didn't know
> until it was too late which way to run.

You board up the house, move the stuff in it onto the top of cabinets, or
boards on top of ladders; you get the picture. one person takes the car and
bugs out early with the stuff that has to be moved. You wait with the
plane, and the others that want to go with you until the track is pretty
certain, then bug out in the plane. You beat all of the last minute freeway
traffic that way, also.

Right, life and family is most important. If I am ever in similar
situations, I'll sure make every attempt to make it out with the plane.
--
Jim in NC

[BTIZ]

>
> I don't buy it. You would only have to move the plane 60 miles or so.
> There is time in there to move "that" major investment, also.
> --
> Jim in NC


But which way to move it.. that storm was 800 miles wide at one time before
it hit Mexico

[Harvey]

"Morgans" > wrote his 1st response:

> Let's see I have 4 or 5 days notice. I have to spend most of one day
> standing in line getting enough plywood to cover the house to try to
protect
> that major investment..that by the way the entire family benefits from.

I don't buy it. You would only have to move the plane 60 miles or so.
There is time in there to move "that" major investment, also.


Morgans responds the second time:
>
> "John" > wrote
>
>> Finally, you never can be sure if by moving you are not going from bad
>> to worse. I have friends in South Florida who didn't leave when
>> Andrew approached. They could go North or South (though not too far).
>> When I asked (in quite colorful language) why they didn't bug out,
>> they replied there was uncertainty where exactly the storm would
>> strike, forecast information was confusing, and they didn't know
>> until it was too late which way to run.
>
> You board up the house, move the stuff in it onto the top of cabinets, or
> boards on top of ladders; you get the picture. one person takes the car
> and
> bugs out early with the stuff that has to be moved. You wait with the
> plane, and the others that want to go with you until the track is pretty
> certain, then bug out in the plane. You beat all of the last minute
> freeway
> traffic that way, also.
>
> Right, life and family is most important. If I am ever in similar
> situations, I'll sure make every attempt to make it out with the plane.
> --
> Jim in NC
>

Ok. This guy is just insensitive or just a moron. Possibly both. Almost
certainly he has never been faced with the situations described. Or perhaps
he (she?) is a super human. Or perhaps s/he just thinks so. Either way, into
the ignore file goes he. or her. whatever.

Harvey
written by generator light after Wilma.

[Doug]

Yes, skip the insurance and you WILL be out there moving your plane to
a safe airport! Gotta save it, it's NOT insured!

[W P Dixon]

You don't have to buy anything Jim. Just saying that during crisis times
things happen and they add up . Before you know it you are out of time. And
if you flew your plane 60 miles from Key West airport to get away from the
storm...where exactly would you be safe? The odds of finding a hangar to put
the plane inside at an away from home airport can be a challenge as well.
You just can't say you can or would do this or that....you would have to be
in the situation and do all you could do. I am sure when it comes down to
it, you'd chose your familie's absolute safety over getting an airplane to
where it MIGHT be safe...and only 60 miles is a big might . Not saying there
is no way to get a plane to safety, only saying that alot of times during
those crisis times alot of things come about that you do not count on.
Even with the best of planning mother nature can give you one heck of a wake
up call. ;)

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "W P Dixon" > wrote
>
>> Let's see I have 4 or 5 days notice. I have to spend most of one day
>> standing in line getting enough plywood to cover the house to try to
> protect
>> that major investment..that by the way the entire family benefits from.
>
> I don't buy it. You would only have to move the plane 60 miles or so.
> There is time in there to move "that" major investment, also.
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[George Patterson]

Morgans wrote:

> I don't buy it. You would only have to move the plane 60 miles or so.
> There is time in there to move "that" major investment, also.

You don't know if you have to move the plane or where that safe spot is until
the last few hours. When it's too late. If you want to move the plane a few days
in advance, you're talking several hundred miles to be safe, and you have to
figure out how to get back home.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[tony roberts]

I understood that "act of God" wasn't covered - same as earthquake.

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

> Right now (1pm West Coast time) on cnn.com, there is a picture of numerous
> overturned planes. Presumably insurance pays for this and since I pay for
> insurance, should I feel a bit bummed that these owners didn't fly their
> planes to safety and help lower my insurance costs? Taking it to the other
> extreme, perhaps some owners wanted to upgrade from a 172 to a 182 (for
> example) and... Sorry, I just don't get it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hilton

[George Patterson]

tony roberts wrote:

> I understood that "act of God" wasn't covered - same as earthquake.

Take a look at your insurance policy. I've never seen that clause in one of mine.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[JohnH]

tony roberts wrote:
> I understood that "act of God" wasn't covered - same as earthquake.

Does that mean athiests get more coverage?

[Robert M. Gary]

> one person takes the car and bugs out early with the stuff that has to be moved.

I wouldn't let my wife bug out on her own. You never know what could
happen. She could get stuck in Texas type traffic, end up having to
sleep in the car on the freeway, etc. I'm not letting her do that just
to save the damn airplane.
-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

I wonder how many where airworthy. I would estimate that at most
airports 20% of the aircraft cannot fly at any given time.

[Dave Stadt]

"tony roberts" > wrote in message
news:nospam-41AD8F.20120524102005@shawnews...
> I understood that "act of God" wasn't covered - same as earthquake.

If you purchase aircraft insurance that excludes "acts of God" you deserve
the coverage you get.

> Tony
>
> --
>
> Tony Roberts
> PP-ASEL
> VFR OTT
> Night
> Cessna 172H C-GICE
>
> > Right now (1pm West Coast time) on cnn.com, there is a picture of
numerous
> > overturned planes. Presumably insurance pays for this and since I pay
for
> > insurance, should I feel a bit bummed that these owners didn't fly their
> > planes to safety and help lower my insurance costs? Taking it to the
other
> > extreme, perhaps some owners wanted to upgrade from a 172 to a 182 (for
> > example) and... Sorry, I just don't get it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Hilton

[tony roberts]

ENCYCLOPAEDIA
Hutchinson's
Encyclopaedia

Encyclopaedia Search
Click a letter for the index
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

Or search the encyclopaedia:

act of God
Legal term meaning some sudden and irresistible act of nature that could
not reasonably have been foreseen or prevented, such as floods or
exceptionally high tides, storms, lightning, earthquakes, sharp frosts,
or sudden death.

Damage by such an occurrence may be attributed to the act of God, and in
the absence of any contract to the contrary, no person can be held
liable for it. Nearly all insurance forms and shipping charter parties,
and most contracts, have a clause relating to nonliability in the case
of an act of God.
Research Machines plc 2005. All rights reserved. Helicon Publishing is
a division of Research Machines plc.

> Take a look at your insurance policy. I've never seen that clause in one of
> mine.
>
> George Patterson


Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Sylvain]

Morgans wrote:
>
> Who cares what it was before Mexico? 12 to 24 hours before, the track and
> size were well predicted.

now all the hypotheses about leaving on time and in the
right direction and all that, kindof fail if the local
FBO (the nice folks from whom you buy fuel had decided to
play it safe, pack up and leave before you did...

--Sylvain

[Morgans]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote

> I flew the night Hurricane Hugo showed up *towards* the storm (for my job)
and
> tied the aircraft to the best of my ability out on the flightline. Gust
locks,
> etc... everything I could do to make it secure.

> Sometimes it's just a matter of luck. And frankly, nobody expected Hugo
to
> amount to much more than a windy night since we were a good 150 NM from
the
> coast.

How true, but Hugo was a rather large exception, and no one expected it to
do anything close to what it did.

Who would have thought that I would see an eye wall in Western NC?

If you got your plane wrecked 6+ hours drive from the coast, all I can say
is, pay up, insurance! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"BTIZ" > wrote
>
> But which way to move it.. that storm was 800 miles wide at one time
before
> it hit Mexico

Who cares what it was before Mexico? 12 to 24 hours before, the track and
size were well predicted.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
t...
> Morgans wrote:
> >
> > Who cares what it was before Mexico? 12 to 24 hours before, the track
and
> > size were well predicted.
>
> now all the hypotheses about leaving on time and in the
> right direction and all that, kindof fail if the local
> FBO (the nice folks from whom you buy fuel had decided to
> play it safe, pack up and leave before you did...

Listen, all, I'm not trying to say that it will work all the time for
everyone. But ya' gotta' try, IMHO.

Lots of folks keep at least half tanks all the time, right? That ought to
get you 60 to 100 miles, for any plane, right?

My whole thing is to get the home stuff done early, when it looks like you
*might* be in harm's way. At the end, if you are lined up for a hit, take
the short flight. It still ought to get you more safe, if you stay away, or
decide to drive back.

For each his own. Unless we get another Hugo, I'm safe, for now. If I was
living in a danger zone, part of my preparedness plan would involve moving
the plane. That's me, perhaps not you. My final words.
--
Jim in NC
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck]

> now all the hypotheses about leaving on time and in the
> right direction and all that, kindof fail if the local
> FBO (the nice folks from whom you buy fuel had decided to
> play it safe, pack up and leave before you did...

Ah, yet another reason to fuel after each flight...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Ok. This guy is just insensitive or just a moron. Possibly both. Almost
> certainly he has never been faced with the situations described. Or
> perhaps he (she?) is a super human. Or perhaps s/he just thinks so. Either
> way, into the ignore file goes he. or her. whatever.

You killfile a guy -- on Usenet -- for being "insensitive"?

You must have one heckuva big killfile!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

>I wonder how many where airworthy. I would estimate that at most
> airports 20% of the aircraft cannot fly at any given time.

Good point.

Heck, there are hangars at my airport that I have NEVER seen opened, in 8
years. God only knows what kind of death-trap you might find inside 'em.

The pilots would likely be safer letting the plane inside be destroyed by a
hurricane. *I* sure wouldn't risk my life flying them.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Doug]

Fortunately most of us do not rely on a dictionary to determine what is
covered and what is not covered by an insurance policy. Instead, we
rely on the wording of the insurance policy. Look at the exclusions. If
it is not excluded, it is usually covered. Certainly wind damage is
covered. Fire is as well. Floods as well, unless excluded (Flooding IS
excluded with HOUSEHOLD insurance). Biggest aviation fallacy I have
heard very often, usually quoted by someone who has never owned a plane
(like an instructor), is you aren't covered if you violate a FAR.
Nonsense. If you run a stop sign and run into a car with your car, do
you think your auto insurance does not pay? Almost no one has actually
read their insurance policy, and unless you read it, you will not know.

[George Patterson]

tony roberts wrote:

> Or search the encyclopaedia:

Why? It won't tell you what your insurance covers; only the policy will tell you
that.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Newps]

W P Dixon wrote:
> Correct!,
> Let's see I have 4 or 5 days notice. I have to spend most of one day
> standing in line getting enough plywood to cover the house to try to
> protect that major investment..that by the way the entire family
> benefits from.


If you live in a hurricane area and you are in Home Depot 3 days before
the hurricane hits trying to buy plywood you are a moron.

[sfb]

If you live in a hurricane area you have a problem with humidity and
mold. Most folks might not have inside storage with or without AC so
storing plywood at Home Depot may be the cheapest alternative.

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> W P Dixon wrote:
>> Correct!,
>> Let's see I have 4 or 5 days notice. I have to spend most of one
>> day standing in line getting enough plywood to cover the house to try
>> to protect that major investment..that by the way the entire family
>> benefits from.
>
>
> If you live in a hurricane area and you are in Home Depot 3 days
> before the hurricane hits trying to buy plywood you are a moron.
>
>

[JohnH]

sfb wrote:
> If you live in a hurricane area you have a problem with humidity and
> mold. Most folks might not have inside storage with or without AC so
> storing plywood at Home Depot may be the cheapest alternative.


Then what do you do with $400 worth of plywood?

It seems old fashoned storm shutters would be the way to go.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Harvey" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Morgans" > wrote his 1st response:
>
>> Let's see I have 4 or 5 days notice. I have to spend most of one day
>> standing in line getting enough plywood to cover the house to try to
> protect
>> that major investment..that by the way the entire family benefits from.
>
> I don't buy it. You would only have to move the plane 60 miles or so.
> There is time in there to move "that" major investment, also.


60 miles doesn't move the plane out of the 12 hr margin of error.

[sfb]

Old fashioned may be just that: old fashioned. The two problems are
debris breaking the windows and the wind literally pushing in the entire
window frame which is why plywood is anchored to the outside walls.
After Andrew in 1992, there were extensive upgrades to building codes
since what was thought to be sufficient wasn't. One example is a frame
attached to the inside walls under he wallboard to keep windows from
being pushed in by the wind and rain. After Charley in 2004, you could
spot developments build pre and post Andrew from the air.

"JohnH" > wrote in message
. ..
> sfb wrote:
>> If you live in a hurricane area you have a problem with humidity and
>> mold. Most folks might not have inside storage with or without AC so
>> storing plywood at Home Depot may be the cheapest alternative.
>
>
> Then what do you do with $400 worth of plywood?
>
> It seems old fashoned storm shutters would be the way to go.
>

[JohnH]

sfb wrote:
> Old fashioned may be just that: old fashioned. The two problems are
> debris breaking the windows and the wind literally pushing in the
> entire window frame which is why plywood is anchored to the outside
> walls.

I was referring to storm shutters which, last time I saw them, were not made
of glass.

[George Patterson]

JohnH wrote:
> sfb wrote:
>
>>Old fashioned may be just that: old fashioned. The two problems are
>>debris breaking the windows and the wind literally pushing in the
>>entire window frame which is why plywood is anchored to the outside
>>walls.
>
> I was referring to storm shutters which, last time I saw them, were not made
> of glass.

No, but most of the old-fashioned designs are mounted to the window frame or
depend on the frame for support when closed.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Mike Rapoport]

Same thing you do with any plywood...build shelves and work tables in your
hanger.

Mike
MU-2


"JohnH" > wrote in message
. ..
> sfb wrote:
>> If you live in a hurricane area you have a problem with humidity and
>> mold. Most folks might not have inside storage with or without AC so
>> storing plywood at Home Depot may be the cheapest alternative.
>
>
> Then what do you do with $400 worth of plywood?
>
> It seems old fashoned storm shutters would be the way to go.
>

[John]

Jim

60 miles which way? . . . and remember you need
36 hours lead time because at 24 hrs, the evacuation order goes
"mandantory" . . . and they sure as heck are not going to let you go
back to the evacuated area. 60 miles would have bought some folks
nothing during the storms last year in Florida. Remeber Charlie
hitting southwest Florida and then cleaning Orlando Executive's clock?
That was a distance of about 150 miles.

I will let others respond to the concept of having spouses evacuate
seperately . . . I suspect most families would VERY strongly want to
stay together so that everyone can be kept track off.

Interesting thread . . . wishes for bluer skies for us all . . .

john

[sfb]

60 miles is half way to Tampa where the airlines suspended operations.

Charley's path went right over Orlando which wasn't expected to be in
the direct path until Charley made a turn east last Friday AM.

"John" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Jim
>
> 60 miles which way? . . . and remember you need
> 36 hours lead time because at 24 hrs, the evacuation order goes
> "mandantory" . . . and they sure as heck are not going to let you go
> back to the evacuated area. 60 miles would have bought some folks
> nothing during the storms last year in Florida. Remeber Charlie
> hitting southwest Florida and then cleaning Orlando Executive's clock?
> That was a distance of about 150 miles.
>
> I will let others respond to the concept of having spouses evacuate
> seperately . . . I suspect most families would VERY strongly want to
> stay together so that everyone can be kept track off.
>
> Interesting thread . . . wishes for bluer skies for us all . . .
>
> john
>

[Darrel Toepfer]

Doug wrote:

> Yes, skip the insurance and you WILL be out there moving your plane to
> a safe airport! Gotta save it, it's NOT insured!

If its not insured, it can't stay at 4R7...

[Darrel Toepfer]

Morgans wrote:

> Listen, all, I'm not trying to say that it will work all the time for
> everyone. But ya' gotta' try, IMHO.
>
> Lots of folks keep at least half tanks all the time, right? That ought to
> get you 60 to 100 miles, for any plane, right?

"You fly it, you refuel it." We always had full tanks...

[ET]

Darrel Toepfer > wrote in news:37w7f.4964$_31.3217
@bignews5.bellsouth.net:

> Doug wrote:
>
>> Yes, skip the insurance and you WILL be out there moving your plane to
>> a safe airport! Gotta save it, it's NOT insured!
>
> If its not insured, it can't stay at 4R7...

You MUST have hull insurance to park at your airport???? Liability maybe,
but I can't imagine any justification to make you have hull insurance....

--
-- ET >:-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

[W P Dixon]

Hee Hee,
I don't argue that at all..but it happens just watch the news! ;)

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> W P Dixon wrote:
>> Correct!,
>> Let's see I have 4 or 5 days notice. I have to spend most of one day
>> standing in line getting enough plywood to cover the house to try to
>> protect that major investment..that by the way the entire family benefits
>> from.
>
>
> If you live in a hurricane area and you are in Home Depot 3 days before
> the hurricane hits trying to buy plywood you are a moron.
>
>

[Morgans]

"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote

> "You fly it, you refuel it." We always had full tanks...

Yes, but that does not always work for all airplanes. For some, if you fill
all the tanks, you can carry two people and one handkerchief, but you can do
that for a long time! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Darrel Toepfer]

Morgans wrote:
> "Darrel Toepfer" > wrote

>>"You fly it, you refuel it." We always had full tanks...
>
> Yes, but that does not always work for all airplanes. For some, if you fill
> all the tanks, you can carry two people and one handkerchief, but you can do
> that for a long time! <g>

Generally works well for the 1xx series Cessnas and a 3Pacer we owned...

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Morgans wrote:
> "Darrel Toepfer" > wrote
>
>> "You fly it, you refuel it." We always had full tanks...
>
> Yes, but that does not always work for all airplanes. For some, if you fill
> all the tanks, you can carry two people and one handkerchief, but you can do
> that for a long time! <g>



Relax. After an hour or two you'll be legal again.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[George Patterson]

Darrel Toepfer wrote:

> "You fly it, you refuel it." We always had full tanks...

Great. Do that in a Maule, and you'll never have full tanks (the vents will dump
about 5 gallons out of each if you top it off). If you have a tiedown with a bit
of a slope (I did at Old Bridge), you'll fuel up before flying. And you'll leave
an inch of air in the top of the tank. If you park on a slope with full tanks,
the uphill tank will cause the other to overflow and it'll be half full the next
time you want to fly.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Newps]

sfb wrote:

> Old fashioned may be just that: old fashioned. The two problems are
> debris breaking the windows and the wind literally pushing in the entire
> window frame which is why plywood is anchored to the outside walls.
> After Andrew in 1992, there were extensive upgrades to building codes
> since what was thought to be sufficient wasn't. One example is a frame
> attached to the inside walls under he wallboard to keep windows from
> being pushed in by the wind and rain. After Charley in 2004, you could
> spot developments build pre and post Andrew from the air.

Yep, my folks have a house in Naples. No need for plywood or shutters.
They have a film on the windows that will stop the flying debris.
Hard to believe it's better than the metal hurricane shutters that roll
down but they are. The houses built from the mid 90's on do not suffer
any real hurricane damage anymore, just the screening over the pool area
gets damaged.



>
> "JohnH" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>sfb wrote:
>>
>>>If you live in a hurricane area you have a problem with humidity and
>>>mold. Most folks might not have inside storage with or without AC so
>>>storing plywood at Home Depot may be the cheapest alternative.
>>
>>
>>Then what do you do with $400 worth of plywood?
>>
>>It seems old fashoned storm shutters would be the way to go.
>>
>
>
>

[tony roberts]

I was responding, very specifically to the comment:
>Take a look at your insurance policy. I've never seen that clause in
>one of mine.

With the comment:
>Nearly all insurance forms and shipping charter parties,
>and most contracts, have a clause relating to nonliability in the case
>of an act of God.

I have yet to see an insurance policy (other than Life) which did not
contain this clause.
It may be different in the USA - but in most of the world it is the rule
rather than the exception.

Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE





In article . com>,
"Doug" > wrote:

> Fortunately most of us do not rely on a dictionary to determine what is
> covered and what is not covered by an insurance policy. Instead, we
> rely on the wording of the insurance policy. Look at the exclusions. If
> it is not excluded, it is usually covered. Certainly wind damage is
> covered. Fire is as well. Floods as well, unless excluded (Flooding IS
> excluded with HOUSEHOLD insurance). Biggest aviation fallacy I have
> heard very often, usually quoted by someone who has never owned a plane
> (like an instructor), is you aren't covered if you violate a FAR.
> Nonsense. If you run a stop sign and run into a car with your car, do
> you think your auto insurance does not pay? Almost no one has actually
> read their insurance policy, and unless you read it, you will not know.

[[email protected]]

Hilton wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Right now (1pm West Coast time) on cnn.com, there is a picture of numerous
> overturned planes. Presumably insurance pays for this and since I pay for
> insurance, should I feel a bit bummed that these owners didn't fly their
> planes to safety and help lower my insurance costs? Taking it to the other
> extreme, perhaps some owners wanted to upgrade from a 172 to a 182 (for
> example) and... Sorry, I just don't get it.
>

I pay for insurance so I can abandon my plane to the elements if it's a
choice between life and property. Living near Boston a hurricane is a
possibility but nothing like the Gulf coast. Insurance rates should
reflect this. If it did happen and evacuating the plane was convenient,
I'd do it, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Just out of curiosity I wonder how many planes are damaged by tornadoes
or severe thunderstorms every year.

-cwk.

[Judah]

"Morgans" > wrote in news:G2e7f.13583$xk2.4989
@fe06.lga:

>
> "W P Dixon" > wrote
>
>> Let's see I have 4 or 5 days notice. I have to spend most of one day
>> standing in line getting enough plywood to cover the house to try to
> protect
>> that major investment..that by the way the entire family benefits from.
>
> I don't buy it. You would only have to move the plane 60 miles or so.
> There is time in there to move "that" major investment, also.

4 or 5 days before touchdown they don't know for certain where it's going
to hit with 60 mile accuracy!

[Jack]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>one person takes the car and bugs out early with the stuff that has to be moved.
>
> I wouldn't let my wife bug out on her own. You never know what could
> happen. She could get stuck in Texas type traffic, end up having to
> sleep in the car on the freeway, etc. I'm not letting her do that just
> to save the damn airplane.

How about taking the airplane with your wife? Car's insured too, no? Let
that sucker sit without the battery in it. You can get farther faster
with less hassle and surround yourself with people who are not refugees.
Cars are just a commodity, wherever else you go in the USA.

Five or six hundred miles in the right direction and you are in a
different, carefree world. Why not sip a little wine on a sunny veranda,
while contemplating with detachment all the work the poor insurance
adjusters are about to undertake on your behalf?


Jack