PIREP of sorts: got a new headset, but should I keep it?

[[email protected]]

Okay, so I finally ponied up and purchased a ANR headset. After much
hemming and hawing over the Lightspeed 20-3G and the Flightcom Denali,
I went with the Denali, primarily because they have a 30 day money back
guarantee, and because everyone seems to get the Lightspeeds and I
wanted to be different.

So far I have flown with the Denali's twice for a total of just under 4
hours. The initial out of the box impression was that they are well
constructed. Tight seams, no loose parts, feel pretty solid. After
following their fitting instructions, the fit is firm, yet comfortable,
and after two 2 hour cross countries I have felt no pain or pressure.
At 13.4 oz they are light enough, although they feel like they sit low
on the left side, which is where the mic boom is, and I haven't been
able to adjust that away yet. I suspect that the cord is stiff in it's
new-ness and is pulling it down.

As for noise attenuation: I have been flying for over a year with a
cheap $99 Cobra headset, and I expected to be absolutely blown away
when I put these on - it didn't happen. The passive cancellation is
actually not as good as the el-cheapo set. When I flip the switch, it's
better, and it definitely cancels the low frequency noise, but the
higher frequencies are right there. I wouldn't say it's loud, per se,
but I guess I expected the "I turned them on and thought the engine
quit" effect that I've read about so many times with various ANR
headsets. Funny, but in flight, it kind of sounds like the default King
Air in flight simulator (which I think sounds more whiny than the real
thing, at least in the cabin). A quick look at the groundspeed on my
GPS confirms that I am, in fact, in a Cessna 152.

In all this, I guess my question is, is there an ANR model that will
really blow you away, or is my experience par for the course at $500?
Should I go Lightspeed? The 20-3G does claim an additional 3-4db of
cancellation, but the frequency response curve is almost the same. Does
even the mighty Bose X have the "engine quit" effect?

John K.
PP-ASEL
Student IA

[Scott Migaldi]

Having owned 3 different paris of Lightspeeds I could not in good
conscious recommend them. Their quality is poor, customer service is
great but I don't want to have to keep sending something in for repair.

I have a pair of the Pilot ANRs and they are ok, nothing special. I also
have two pairs of David Clarks ANRs. I like both of them a lot and
recommend you consider them. They are bullet proof and have great
passive cancellation. They fit me just fine and without the bulkiness of
the Lightspeeds. Best of all when it is cold out they do not need to
warm up like the Lightspeeds do to fit right.

Scott

wrote:
> Okay, so I finally ponied up and purchased a ANR headset. After much
> hemming and hawing over the Lightspeed 20-3G and the Flightcom Denali,
> I went with the Denali, primarily because they have a 30 day money back
> guarantee, and because everyone seems to get the Lightspeeds and I
> wanted to be different.
>
> So far I have flown with the Denali's twice for a total of just under 4
> hours. The initial out of the box impression was that they are well
> constructed. Tight seams, no loose parts, feel pretty solid. After
> following their fitting instructions, the fit is firm, yet comfortable,
> and after two 2 hour cross countries I have felt no pain or pressure.
> At 13.4 oz they are light enough, although they feel like they sit low
> on the left side, which is where the mic boom is, and I haven't been
> able to adjust that away yet. I suspect that the cord is stiff in it's
> new-ness and is pulling it down.
>
> As for noise attenuation: I have been flying for over a year with a
> cheap $99 Cobra headset, and I expected to be absolutely blown away
> when I put these on - it didn't happen. The passive cancellation is
> actually not as good as the el-cheapo set. When I flip the switch, it's
> better, and it definitely cancels the low frequency noise, but the
> higher frequencies are right there. I wouldn't say it's loud, per se,
> but I guess I expected the "I turned them on and thought the engine
> quit" effect that I've read about so many times with various ANR
> headsets. Funny, but in flight, it kind of sounds like the default King
> Air in flight simulator (which I think sounds more whiny than the real
> thing, at least in the cabin). A quick look at the groundspeed on my
> GPS confirms that I am, in fact, in a Cessna 152.
>
> In all this, I guess my question is, is there an ANR model that will
> really blow you away, or is my experience par for the course at $500?
> Should I go Lightspeed? The 20-3G does claim an additional 3-4db of
> cancellation, but the frequency response curve is almost the same. Does
> even the mighty Bose X have the "engine quit" effect?
>
> John K.
> PP-ASEL
> Student IA
>


--
--------------------
Scott F. Migaldi
CP-ASEL-IA
N8116B

PADI MI-150972
Join the PADI Instructor Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/

--------------------

[John Huthmaker]

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever used an ENC upgrade from headsetsinc.com.
They claim to have an ENC headset add on for $169.00. I have a set of DC
10-30's. I am quite happy with them. However it is the only headset I have
ever used. I bought them used on Ebay for $110.00, and added on new foam
and Gel Earseals.

Headsetinc.com claims that their add on is about equivalent to the similar
ENC model. Is this really true?

If so, I am pretty interested in buying the kit.

--
John Huthmaker

"Scott Migaldi" > wrote in message
...
> Having owned 3 different paris of Lightspeeds I could not in good
> conscious recommend them. Their quality is poor, customer service is great
> but I don't want to have to keep sending something in for repair.
>
> I have a pair of the Pilot ANRs and they are ok, nothing special. I also
> have two pairs of David Clarks ANRs. I like both of them a lot and
> recommend you consider them. They are bullet proof and have great passive
> cancellation. They fit me just fine and without the bulkiness of the
> Lightspeeds. Best of all when it is cold out they do not need to warm up
> like the Lightspeeds do to fit right.
>
> Scott
>
> wrote:
>> Okay, so I finally ponied up and purchased a ANR headset. After much
>> hemming and hawing over the Lightspeed 20-3G and the Flightcom Denali,
>> I went with the Denali, primarily because they have a 30 day money back
>> guarantee, and because everyone seems to get the Lightspeeds and I
>> wanted to be different.
>>
>> So far I have flown with the Denali's twice for a total of just under 4
>> hours. The initial out of the box impression was that they are well
>> constructed. Tight seams, no loose parts, feel pretty solid. After
>> following their fitting instructions, the fit is firm, yet comfortable,
>> and after two 2 hour cross countries I have felt no pain or pressure.
>> At 13.4 oz they are light enough, although they feel like they sit low
>> on the left side, which is where the mic boom is, and I haven't been
>> able to adjust that away yet. I suspect that the cord is stiff in it's
>> new-ness and is pulling it down.
>>
>> As for noise attenuation: I have been flying for over a year with a
>> cheap $99 Cobra headset, and I expected to be absolutely blown away
>> when I put these on - it didn't happen. The passive cancellation is
>> actually not as good as the el-cheapo set. When I flip the switch, it's
>> better, and it definitely cancels the low frequency noise, but the
>> higher frequencies are right there. I wouldn't say it's loud, per se,
>> but I guess I expected the "I turned them on and thought the engine
>> quit" effect that I've read about so many times with various ANR
>> headsets. Funny, but in flight, it kind of sounds like the default King
>> Air in flight simulator (which I think sounds more whiny than the real
>> thing, at least in the cabin). A quick look at the groundspeed on my
>> GPS confirms that I am, in fact, in a Cessna 152.
>>
>> In all this, I guess my question is, is there an ANR model that will
>> really blow you away, or is my experience par for the course at $500?
>> Should I go Lightspeed? The 20-3G does claim an additional 3-4db of
>> cancellation, but the frequency response curve is almost the same. Does
>> even the mighty Bose X have the "engine quit" effect?
>>
>> John K.
>> PP-ASEL
>> Student IA
>>
>
>
> --
> --------------------
> Scott F. Migaldi
> CP-ASEL-IA
> N8116B
>
> PADI MI-150972
> Join the PADI Instructor Yahoo Group
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/
>
> --------------------

[Thomas Borchert]

John,

> Out of curiosity, has anyone ever used an ENC upgrade from headsetsinc.com.
>

Yes, on a Softcomm "Red Baron" DC clone. Highly recommended for your
situation, i.e. low-price passive that you really like. If, OTOH, you want
modern ergonomic design and top-end ANR, get a new headset.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

,

> and because everyone seems to get the Lightspeeds and I
> wanted to be different.
>

Feel the pain? ;-)

Maybe there's a reason more people seem to buy the Lightspeed than the
Denali.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Viperdoc]

The Headsets kit works well, but does take some soldering skill if you do it
yourself. I have one installed in a helmet as well as in a pair of DC's.

[Grumman 236]

> So far I have flown with the Denali's twice for a total of just under 4
> hours. The initial out of the box impression was that they are well
> constructed. Tight seams, no loose parts, feel pretty solid. After
> following their fitting instructions, the fit is firm, yet comfortable,
> and after two 2 hour cross countries I have felt no pain or pressure.
> At 13.4 oz they are light enough, although they feel like they sit low
> on the left side, which is where the mic boom is, and I haven't been
> able to adjust that away yet. I suspect that the cord is stiff in it's
> new-ness and is pulling it down.

I've owned and used Lightspeed, DC and, now, Denali ANR's. For me, the
Denali's are by far the most comfortable , have the best low-frequency
noise rejection and the fewest spurious oscillations (a problem with
the Lightspeed set I had). I also like the battery compartment box with
the clip that stays put and out of the way and the auto power-off
circuitry that acts within just a few minutes.

[George Patterson]

wrote:

> In all this, I guess my question is, is there an ANR model that will
> really blow you away, or is my experience par for the course at $500?

You might try Sennheiser. I preferred them to Denali.

> Does even the mighty Bose X have the "engine quit" effect?

No. Bose used to have a 30-day money-back guarantee, though, so you could try a
set for next to nothing.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Peter Duniho]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> [...]
> As for noise attenuation: I have been flying for over a year with a
> cheap $99 Cobra headset, and I expected to be absolutely blown away
> when I put these on - it didn't happen. [...]
> I wouldn't say it's loud, per se,
> but I guess I expected the "I turned them on and thought the engine
> quit" effect that I've read about so many times with various ANR
> headsets.

Where have you read about that? I have never heard of anyone saying that.
All of the ANR headsets I've ever used (Peltor, Lightspeed, Bose) had the
same effect: they are MUCH more effective with cancelling the low
frequencies than the high.

The goal of the headset should be, IMHO, to reduce the overall sound volume
(pressure), protecting your hearing and reducing fatigue, while at the same
time allowing you to hear important sounds. Every ANR headset I've tried
does this.

I don't know whether it's a design choice, or a basic limitation in what's
capable with the first generation of ANR (IMHO they haven't gotten to the
second generation yet), but it does happen that the low frequencies are the
ones that seem the loudest, and which fatigue one the fastest.

I would suggest it's unrealistic for anyone to expect an ANR headset to
actually remove all ambient sound. I've never heard of any that do that,
nor have I heard of anyone saying that they do.

Pete

[JohnK]

Pete,

I've read it a number of times in this very group while trying to
decide which headset to get, usually in reference to a Lightspeed
product. I just searched again for giggles and saw someone claim that a
Telex Echelon ANR produced that effect.

Don't get me wrong, I really don't think I want to wonder if the engine
is running or not when I'm flying, just had a different expectation I
suppose. I guess I thought I'd just hear a faint soothing background
hum, or something, I don't know.

In the end, I think I'll stick with the Denali's. Like I said earlier I
expected to be blown away for the $400 price difference and wasn't
exactly. If that's just the way it is then I'll just give them more
time. There's no doubt I can grow to love them, they are definitely
nice. Plus now that I only hear the higher frequencies I can pretend
I'm flying a King Air....

John K

[nrp]

I have a Headsets Inc (HI) unit installed in a David Clark H10-40 that
also seems very acceptable, although I've never compared it to any
other unit. As I understand the HI kit operates on a completely
different principle, being an analog servo-cancelling vs the digital
iteration schemes from others. I'd think there would be a major
difference in performance somewhere.

Has anyone else compared the HI modification to one of the all-digital
ones?

[Peter Duniho]

"JohnK" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I've read it a number of times in this very group while trying to
> decide which headset to get, usually in reference to a Lightspeed
> product. I just searched again for giggles and saw someone claim that a
> Telex Echelon ANR produced that effect.

I never heard of giggles. But I searched Google Groups for the phrase you
quoted, and it only found this thread.

I certainly have seen posts from people who are very impressed with the
performance of ANR. But I've never heard of anyone who thought the engine
had stopped running.

> [...]
> In the end, I think I'll stick with the Denali's. Like I said earlier I
> expected to be blown away for the $400 price difference and wasn't
> exactly. If that's just the way it is then I'll just give them more
> time.

IMHO, the best solution is to compare yourself. An avionics shop should
allow you to test fly (possibly charging a rental fee) their demo units.

Or, if you live somewhere that has some sort of trade show (for example,
here in the Pacific Northwest, we have an annual aviation conference), the
Lightspeed folks usually show up with their egg chair, in which they play
airplane noises through loudspeakers and let you try different brands.
Sure, it could be rigged (they're selling a particular brand, of course),
but I think it's not and it allows you to try out a bunch of brands and
headsets in rapid succession.

I don't know that the Denalis are good enough to justify their price --
haven't used them myself. But if you're dissatisfied, maybe you *should*
check out other brands. Don't expect the engine noise to disappear, but
don't just settle for the first pretty face that comes along too. :)

Pete

[John Kirksey]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "JohnK" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > I've read it a number of times in this very group while trying to
> > decide which headset to get, usually in reference to a Lightspeed
> > product. I just searched again for giggles and saw someone claim that a
> > Telex Echelon ANR produced that effect.
>
> I never heard of giggles. But I searched Google Groups for the phrase you
> quoted, and it only found this thread.
>

lol, giggles = just for giggles (the search seriously wasn't that much
fun...)

Do a search for "ANR engine". That pulls back at least one hit (the Telex).
I know I've seen it with regard to Lightspeed I just couldn't find it again.

Perhaps a trip to the AOPA expo is in order? I've never been, and one of the
reasons I wanted to go was to get my hands on a number of headsets at one
time. I would assume that Lightspeed would have their demo setup there.

Thanks for the input!

John K.

[Peter Duniho]

"John Kirksey" > wrote in message
news:C0X7f.8643$HW5.6428@trnddc04...
> [...]
> Perhaps a trip to the AOPA expo is in order? I've never been, and one of
> the
> reasons I wanted to go was to get my hands on a number of headsets at one
> time. I would assume that Lightspeed would have their demo setup there.

If you can make it, I think that's a great thing to do. You may also find
that not only is it an excellent place to get multiple demos of a wide
variety of brands, but that they may also be offering "show specials" with
nice discounts.

If you were completely happy with the Denali, I'd say stick with it. But
given your disappointment, whether it's well-founded or not I think you
ought to research the other brands. Either you'll find another brand you
like better, or you'll learn more about what sorts of expectations are
realistic, or both. In any case I suspect you'll be happier -- either with
the Denali, or with whatever brand you wind up liking better.

Pete

[Thomas Borchert]

Nrp,

> Has anyone else compared the HI modification to one of the all-digital
> ones?
>

The only manufacturer I know using the word "digital" in his advertising
is Telex. What exactly they mean by it I don't know.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

John,

the ANR tutorial on Lightspeed's website (ANR 1o1 and 2o1, links on the
right side of the homepage) might be interesting to you.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)