Under the heading of Truly Weird

[Jay Beckman]

Betcha can't top this one:

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=4022990&nav=23Ku

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

[[email protected]]

Jay Beckman wrote:
> Betcha can't top this one:
>
> http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=4022990&nav=23Ku
>
> Jay Beckman
> PP-ASEL
> AZ Cloudbusters
> Chandler, AZ

How does one have an "expired" pilots license?

[[email protected]]

More info here:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1025planecrash25.html

Surgeon in trouble for removing son's body from plane crash

Police found debris of craft - no body

Thomas Ropp
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 25, 2005 12:00 AM

In a case federal aviation authorities describe as "one of the weirdest
ever," a Paradise Valley surgeon could face federal and state charges
after removing the body of his dead son from a plane crash.

Jacob Lundell, 21, died late Saturday afternoon while doing
touch-and-go maneuvers at the Casa Grande Municipal Airport, police
said.

His father, Dr. Mark Lundell, and a brother witnessed the crash,
authorities said.

Casa Grande police arrived a few minutes later to find the scene of an
obvious fatality - but no body.

"There was a lot of blood and even brain matter in the cockpit," Casa
Grande police Lt. Steve Cantrell said.

Officers said that a witness saw a red pickup truck pull up to the
crash site and that two men removed the body. When the witness asked
the men if he should call 911, the older man said no, they could handle
it, police said.

Case Grande police got the identifying N-number off the plane tail and
located a Paradise Valley address.

They contacted Paradise Valley police who arrived at the Lundell home
seconds before a red pickup pulled up with the body.

Larry Scott, assistant Paradise Valley police chief, said other family
members were present in the driveway, including Deborah Lundell, the
victim's mother.

"They were all in shock," Scott said.

Deborah Lundell told Channel 3 (KTVK) that her husband brought their
son's body home because "he knew my grieving, he knew my heartache; he
knew I needed to see him before they took him away."

Mark Lundell did the right thing in allowing the family to say goodbye,
she told the TV station.

"He may have legally not done the right thing, but morally he did the
right thing," she added.

The body was taken to the Maricopa County Medical Examiner's Office for
an autopsy.

Donn Walker of the FAA's Los Angeles regional office said their
investigator showed up shortly after the Casa Grande police and was
baffled.

"He called up and said we just had a plane crash but can't find the
body," Walker said. "It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever
heard."

Walker said that the victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid
student pilot's certificate and that the plane, a 1961 Nord owned by
the Lundells, was not registered.

Walker said the FAA is investigating possible federal violations,
including the removal of the body from the crash site.

Andrea Esquer, a spokeswoman for the Arizona Attorney General's Office,
would not comment on the state's position, pending the outcome of the
probe by U.S. authorities.

There are several Arizona statutes that address such situations. One
requires that human body cannot be removed from the scene of a
suspicious death unless a county medical examiner gives permission.

The Lundells have five children. They have appeared in newspaper
articles in connection with their love of flying.

When contacted by The Arizona Republic, the family declined to comment

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

wrote:
>> Betcha can't top this one:
>>
>> http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=4022990&nav=23Ku
>
> How does one have an "expired" pilots license?


I'm always highly suspicious of articles like this one. You note they threw the
word "stalled" out there, but then they used it in reference to the engine. So
which was it? Did the engine quit or did the aircraft stall?

I'd expect the "expired license" referred to is actually his medical. No doubt
that was the cause of this accident.

When the NTSB says it is against the law to remove anything from a plane crash,
I doubt that includes bodies. Of course, I don't really understand why the
family didn't leave the pilot's body where it lay... unless it was in danger of
burning. A little odd...

I really wish they'd run the text of articles like this past their helicopter
pilot to see if it makes sense, aviation-wise, *before* they air it. It's
obvious they're clueless about flying.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Larry Dighera]

On 25 Oct 2005 21:55:53 -0700, wrote in
. com>::

>There are several Arizona statutes that address such situations. One
>requires that human body cannot be removed from the scene of a
>suspicious death unless a county medical examiner gives permission.

What is the legal definition of a "suspicious death"? Is it just
short of suspected homicide? If so, I fail to see how that would
apply in this case.

[Jay Honeck]

> Walker said that the victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid
> student pilot's certificate and that the plane, a 1961 Nord owned by
> the Lundells, was not registered.

Sounds to me like the distraught doctor/father/aircraft owner is going to be
answering some hard questions.

Like, why was he allowing his son -- apparently not a pilot -- to fly an
unregistered aircraft?

Something smells here.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gig 601XL Builder]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> More info here:
>
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1025planecrash25.html
>
> Surgeon in trouble for removing son's body from plane crash
>
> Police found debris of craft - no body
>
> Thomas Ropp
> The Arizona Republic
> Oct. 25, 2005 12:00 AM
>
<SNIP>
> Case Grande police got the identifying N-number off the plane tail and
> located a Paradise Valley address.
>
<SNIP>
> Walker said that the victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid
> student pilot's certificate and that the plane, a 1961 Nord owned by
> the Lundells, was not registered.
>


If the aircraft wasn't registered how did they tie it to a Paradise Valley
address?

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:05:05 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote in
<5aL7f.472413$x96.177672@attbi_s72>::

>Like, why was he allowing his son -- apparently not a pilot -- to fly an
>unregistered aircraft?

The son was not a minor.

[Peter Clark]

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:27:44 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
<wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote:

>
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>>
>> More info here:
>>
>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1025planecrash25.html
>>
>> Surgeon in trouble for removing son's body from plane crash
>>
>> Police found debris of craft - no body
>>
>> Thomas Ropp
>> The Arizona Republic
>> Oct. 25, 2005 12:00 AM
>>
><SNIP>
>> Case Grande police got the identifying N-number off the plane tail and
>> located a Paradise Valley address.
>>
><SNIP>
>> Walker said that the victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid
>> student pilot's certificate and that the plane, a 1961 Nord owned by
>> the Lundells, was not registered.
>>
>
>
>If the aircraft wasn't registered how did they tie it to a Paradise Valley
>address?

Start asking FBOs in the area if it's based there and then see where
the tidedown bills etc are being mailed?

For something like an aircraft there's always a paper trail (hangar
bills, maintenance records, etc), it's just a matter of how long it
takes to track through it.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:05:05 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> > wrote in
> <5aL7f.472413$x96.177672@attbi_s72>::
>
>>Like, why was he allowing his son -- apparently not a pilot -- to fly an
>>unregistered aircraft?
>
> The son was not a minor.
>

I know what you mean but, the aircraft was apparently owned by the father so
unless you have reason to believe the son stole it the father did, in fact,
ALLOW his son to fly it.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Peter Clark" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:27:44 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
> <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote:
>
>>
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>>>
>>> More info here:
>>>
>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1025planecrash25.html
>>>
>>> Surgeon in trouble for removing son's body from plane crash
>>>
>>> Police found debris of craft - no body
>>>
>>> Thomas Ropp
>>> The Arizona Republic
>>> Oct. 25, 2005 12:00 AM
>>>
>><SNIP>
>>> Case Grande police got the identifying N-number off the plane tail and
>>> located a Paradise Valley address.
>>>
>><SNIP>
>>> Walker said that the victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid
>>> student pilot's certificate and that the plane, a 1961 Nord owned by
>>> the Lundells, was not registered.
>>>
>>
>>
>>If the aircraft wasn't registered how did they tie it to a Paradise Valley
>>address?
>
> Start asking FBOs in the area if it's based there and then see where
> the tidedown bills etc are being mailed?
>
> For something like an aircraft there's always a paper trail (hangar
> bills, maintenance records, etc), it's just a matter of how long it
> takes to track through it.

I understand that but they did it fast enough to get the police to the house
before the father arrived there with the son. So while they might well have
gotten the address of the owners home from people at the airport I doubt the
N-number had anything to do with it.

[Peter R.]

Gig 601XL Builder <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote:

> I understand that but they did it fast enough to get the police to the house
> before the father arrived there with the son. So while they might well have
> gotten the address of the owners home from people at the airport I doubt the
> N-number had anything to do with it.

The license plate of the truck taking away the body was reported to the
police by those who also came upon the scene.

This fact was in one of the stories about this tragedy.

--
Peter
























----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:12:45 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
<wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote in <C1N7f.11353$Ix3.8953@dukeread05>::

>
>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:05:05 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
>> > wrote in
>> <5aL7f.472413$x96.177672@attbi_s72>::
>>
>>>Like, why was he allowing his son -- apparently not a pilot -- to fly an
>>>unregistered aircraft?
>>
>> The son was not a minor.
>>
>
>I know what you mean but, the aircraft was apparently owned by the father so
>unless you have reason to believe the son stole it the father did, in fact,
>ALLOW his son to fly it.
>

Given "Mark and his other son were watching."*, perhaps that's true.

The "facts" presented by the news media in this case leave a lot to be
desired.

"Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) officials say the victim
had an expired pilot's license."*

Donn Walker of the FAA's Los Angeles regional office said that the
victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid student pilot's
certificate**


A search of FAA certification data yields:

https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/AirmenIndivDetail.asp?uniqid=A4254954

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JACOB ADAM LUNDELL
Address:
Street 6341 N MOCKINGBIRD LN
City PARADISE VALLEY State ARIZONA
County MARICOPA Zip Code 85253-5313
Country UNITED STATES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Medical:
Medical Class : Third Medical Date: 03/2001

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CertIficates

1 of 1
DOI : 03/05/2001
CertIficate: STUDENT PILOT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the question seems to be, why would a 21 year old Student Pilot
with an expired Medical Certificate choose to fly an unregistered
aircraft as his father and brother watched?

But this gets curiouser; there is an interesting aspect to the
aircraft registration (or lack thereof):

http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/nnumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=22532
FAA Registry
N-Number Inquiry Results


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
N22532 is Assigned
Assigned/Registered Aircraft

Aircraft Description

Serial Number 54 Type Registration Individual
Manufacturer Name NORD Certificate Issue Date None
Model 3202 Status In Question
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50373160
MFR Year 1961 Fractional Owner NO


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registered Owner

Name SALE REPORTED
Street PO BOX 835
City THATCHER State ARIZONA Zip Code 85253
County MARICOPA
Country UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Airworthiness

Engine Manufacturer AMA/EXPR Classification Experimental
Engine Model UNKNOWN ENG Category Exhibition

A/W Date 08/29/1980


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other Owner Names
SOLD TO FOOTE DEBORAH A

Street 6341 N MOCKINGBIRD LN
City PARADISE VALLEY State ARIZONA Zip Code 85253
County MARICOPA
Country UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Temporary Certificate
None


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It appears the owner of the aircraft resides at the same address as
the victim.

It would appear that Ms. Foote also has two other aircraft registered
in her name:

http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/nnumsql.asp?NNumbertxt=500AM
FAA Registry
N-Number Inquiry Results


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
N500AM is Assigned

Assigned/Registered Aircraft
Aircraft Description

Serial Number 6501 Type Registration Individual
Manufacturer Name BEECH Certificate Issue Date 11/12/1993
Model AT-11 Status Valid
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 51434774
MFR Year 1941 Fractional Owner NO


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registered Owner

Name FOOTE DEBORAH A
Street 6341 N MOCKINGBIRD LN
City PARADISE VALLEY State ARIZONA Zip Code 85253
County MARICOPA
Country UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Airworthiness

Engine Manufacturer P&W Classification Experimental
Engine Model R-985 SERIES Category Research and Development

A/W Date 05/19/1981


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/nnumsql.asp?NNumbertxt=3253K
FAA Registry
N-Number Inquiry Results


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
N3253K is Assigned
Assigned/Registered Aircraft
Aircraft Description

Serial Number 1246 Type Registration Individual
Manufacturer Name GLOBE Certificate Issue Date 10/31/1991
Model GC-1B Status Undel Tri
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50701656
MFR Year 1946 Fractional Owner NO


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registered Owner

Name FOOTE DEBORAH A
Street PO BOX 835
City THATCHER State ARIZONA Zip Code 85552
County GRAHAM
Country UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Airworthiness

Engine Manufacturer CONT MOTOR Classification Standard
Engine Model IO-360 SER Category Normal

A/W Date 07/12/1979


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But there is no record for Ms. Foote in the Airman's database.
However, the victim's father has been issued an airman's certificate:



https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/AirmenIndivDetail.asp?uniqid=A1159048
FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MARK WARREN LUNDELL
Address

Address is not available

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medical
Medical Class : Third Medical Date: 10/2000

MUST HAVE AVAILABLE GLASSES FOR NEAR VISION.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CertIficates

1 of 1
DOI : 09/24/1990
CertIficate: COMMERCIAL PILOT

Rating(s):

COMMERCIAL PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
Limits
CARRYING PASSENGERS IN AIRPLANES FOR HIRE IS PROHIBITED AT NIGHT
AND ON CROSS-COUNTRY FLIGHTS OF MORE THAN 50 NAUTICAL MILES.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is also a record for another airman by the name of Lundell with
an address near the victim:


https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/AirmenIndivDetail.asp?uniqid=A4373665
FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DONALD ALLAN FOOTE
Address
Street PO BOX 145

City ARLINGTON State ARIZONA
County MARICOPA Zip Code 85322-0145
Country UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medical
Medical Class : Third Medical Date: 12/2002


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CertIficates
1 of 1

DOI : 12/09/2002
CertIficate: STUDENT PILOT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The more one researches this mishap, the curiouser it becomes.


"Local police say they did not violate any laws, but the National
Transportation Safety Board says it is against federal law to
remove anything from the scene of a plane crash."*

"Walker said the FAA is investigating possible federal violations,
including the removal of the body from the crash site."**

"There are several Arizona statutes that address such situations.
One requires that human body cannot be removed from the scene of a
suspicious death unless a county medical examiner gives
permission."**

"Andrea Esquer, a spokeswoman for the Arizona Attorney General's
Office, would not comment on the state's position, pending the
outcome of the probe by U.S. authorities."**

Why would enforcement of the state law be affected by the FAA's
investigation of possible federal violations? Is it a case of who has
jurisdiction?


"Deborah Lundell told Channel 3 (KTVK) that her husband brought
their son's body home because "he knew my grieving, he knew my
heartache; he knew I needed to see him before they took him
away."

Mark Lundell did the right thing in allowing the family to say
goodbye, she told the TV station."**

It appears the victim's mother was named Deborah, just like the person
to whom the apparent accident aircraft was reported sold.


* http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=4022990&nav=23Ku

** http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1025planecrash25.html

[Blanche]

Both of my parents died in Phoenix (altho neither is buried in AZ)
and as the mortuary explained it to me, if a person is NOT under
direct treatment of a physician, it's considered a suspicious
death. Altho neither of my parents were in the hospital, both
were under a physician's care (both died at home, 15 yrs apart, tho)
so there was no question of "suspicious death".

[Larry Dighera]

On 26 Oct 2005 17:45:15 GMT, Blanche > wrote
in >::

>as the mortuary explained it to me, if a person is NOT under
>direct treatment of a physician, it's considered a suspicious
>death.

Thank you for the information.

So it's a matter of having the attending physician provide a cause of
death, or if there is no physician in attendance, having the coroner
perform an autopsy to determine the cause of death.

[Montblack]

("Larry Dighera" wrote)
> But this gets curiouser; there is an interesting aspect to the
> aircraft registration (or lack thereof):
>
> http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/nnumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=22532
> FAA Registry
> N-Number Inquiry Results
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> N22532 is Assigned
> Assigned/Registered Aircraft
>
> Serial Number 54
> Manufacturer Name NORD
> Model 3202 Status In Question
> Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine
> MFR Year 1961


<http://ajbs.com/Anglais/MuseeGB/Nord-3202-UKHtml/Nord-3202-History-UK.htm>
Nord 3202

<http://www.ukskies.co.uk/index.htm?http://www.ukskies.co.uk/N/pages/Nord%20-%203202.htm>
Nord 3202

<http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Malet/2974.htm>
Nord 3202


MontBlackHelpingEncyclopediaBrown

[Chris]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
. com...
> wrote:
>>> Betcha can't top this one:
>>>
>>> http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=4022990&nav=23Ku
>>
>> How does one have an "expired" pilots license?
>
>
> I'm always highly suspicious of articles like this one. You note they
> threw the word "stalled" out there, but then they used it in reference to
> the engine. So which was it? Did the engine quit or did the aircraft
> stall?
>
> I'd expect the "expired license" referred to is actually his medical. No
> doubt that was the cause of this accident.
>
> When the NTSB says it is against the law to remove anything from a plane
> crash, I doubt that includes bodies. Of course, I don't really understand
> why the family didn't leave the pilot's body where it lay... unless it was
> in danger of burning. A little odd...
>
> I really wish they'd run the text of articles like this past their
> helicopter pilot to see if it makes sense, aviation-wise, *before* they
> air it. It's obvious they're clueless about flying.
>
A lot of pilots are in that position too so why beat up on journalists?

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:40:02 +0100, "Chris" >
wrote in >::

>
>"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
. com...
>> wrote:

>> I'm always highly suspicious of articles like this one. You note they
>> threw the word "stalled" out there, but then they used it in reference to
>> the engine. So which was it? Did the engine quit or did the aircraft
>> stall?
[...]
>> I really wish they'd run the text of articles like this past their
>> helicopter pilot to see if it makes sense, aviation-wise, *before* they
>> air it. It's obvious they're clueless about flying.
>>
>A lot of pilots are in that position too so why beat up on journalists?
>

Pilots do not hold themselves out as sources of accurate information
as a vocation; journalists do.

[Chris]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:40:02 +0100, "Chris" >
> wrote in >::
>
>>
>>"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in
>>message
. com...
>>> wrote:
>
>>> I'm always highly suspicious of articles like this one. You note they
>>> threw the word "stalled" out there, but then they used it in reference
>>> to
>>> the engine. So which was it? Did the engine quit or did the aircraft
>>> stall?
> [...]
>>> I really wish they'd run the text of articles like this past their
>>> helicopter pilot to see if it makes sense, aviation-wise, *before* they
>>> air it. It's obvious they're clueless about flying.
>>>
>>A lot of pilots are in that position too so why beat up on journalists?
>>
>
> Pilots do not hold themselves out as sources of accurate information
> as a vocation; journalists do.

No No No Noooo. Journalist write stories that sell papers advertising spots
etc. Its a bit naive to think they are about telling the truth. Besides what
truth? There is not the time to properly research anything.

How many stories have you come across where you have the inside knowledge
and how many times do you say that's not quite right. I bets its near 100%.

[Jay Beckman]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>>
>
> Pilots do not hold themselves out as sources of accurate information
> as a vocation; journalists do.

Journalists are a source of accurate information if "sheeple" allow them to
be.

However, unless a story hits really close to home, "sheeple" don't care.

We bridle at terms like "the engine stalled and the plane crashed" beacause
we know better. The majority of "sheeple" could care less.

I confess that I get "sheeple-ish" and "MEGO" (my eyes glaze over) when the
news turns to stories on The Fed, or international monetary polices, etc...

IMO, it boils down to two main factors:

1) Usenet is narrowcasting at it's absolute narrowest.

2) TV news is broadcasting at it's absolute broadest.

Never the twain shall meet.

Regards,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:29:16 +0100, "Chris" >
wrote in >::

>
>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...

>>>A lot of pilots are in that position too so why beat up on journalists?
>>>
>>
>> Pilots do not hold themselves out as sources of accurate information
>> as a vocation; journalists do.
>
>No No No Noooo. Journalist write stories that sell papers advertising spots
>etc. Its a bit naive to think they are about telling the truth. Besides what
>truth? There is not the time to properly research anything.

Well, I'm old enough to remember Edward R. Morrow. He attempted to
provide accurate, in-depth information.

There has always been Yellow Journalism*, but those who indulge in it
ultimately find themselves ostracized by their peers.

>How many stories have you come across where you have the inside knowledge
>and how many times do you say that's not quite right. I bets its near 100%.

The accuracy of the reporting seems to be a function of the
respectability of the particular journal/newspaper/newscast.

* http://alt.tnt.tv/movies/tntoriginals/roughriders/jour.home.html

The Sensational Beginnings of Yellow Journalism
In 1898, newspapers provided the major source of news in America.
At this time, it was common practice for a newspaper to report the
editor's interpretation of the news rather than objective
journalism. If the information reported was inaccurate or biased,
the American public had little means for verification. With this
sort of influence, the newspapers wielded much political power. In
order to increase circulation, the publishers of these papers
often exploited their position by sponsoring a flamboyant and
irresponsible approach to news reporting that became known as
"yellow journalism." Though the term was originally coined to
describe the journalistic practices of Joseph Pulitzer, William
Randolph Hearst proved himself worthy of the title. Today, it is
his name that is synonymous with "yellow journalism."

[Rob]

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> I really wish they'd run the text of articles like this past their helicopter
> pilot to see if it makes sense, aviation-wise, *before* they air it. It's
> obvious they're clueless about flying.

Believe it or not the guy who wrote the AZCentral article posted by
Michael, Thomas Ropp, is generally pretty fair and accurate when it
comes to aviation related reporting. He covers the Scottsdale Airport
beat for the Arizona Republic. I understand from friends at an FBO at
SDL that he's had some flight training, although I don't see him in the
FAA database (Thomas Ropp could be a Pseudonym).

I guess I should send him an email sometime and thank him for all the
times he DIDN'T say that "witnesses heard the airplane stall and then
it fell from the sky." I did send him an angry email once regarding an
article about Scottsdale airport neighbors complaining about helicopter
noise. The article was very accurate and unbiased, but it was
accompanied by a "photo-illustration" of a Robinson R-22 that had been
Photo-Shopped into a residential street scene. It appeared as though
the helicopter was flying down a residential street 30 feet above the
driveways. The next day, the editorial section of the paper contained
the original R-22 photo, which had been taken of the helicopter about
30 feet over the ramp at SDL with the tower in the background. Never
got a reply from him, but I'll bet the accompanying photo was not his
work anyway.

-R

[George Patterson]

Larry Dighera wrote:

> Why would enforcement of the state law be affected by the FAA's
> investigation of possible federal violations? Is it a case of who has
> jurisdiction?

In many cases, the State will not bother prosecuting if the Federal government
intends to. Saves them money. This was frequently the case in Georgia when I
lived there.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Tom]

Witnesses got the license number of the pickup the father and son used to
transport him home, the Casa Grande police did a registration check and
notified the local (Paradise Valley) police who met them there.


"Gig 601XL Builder" <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
news:0vL7f.94$0M1.7@dukeread12...
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>
>> More info here:
>>
>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1025planecrash25.html
>>
>> Surgeon in trouble for removing son's body from plane crash
>>
>> Police found debris of craft - no body
>>
>> Thomas Ropp
>> The Arizona Republic
>> Oct. 25, 2005 12:00 AM
>>
> <SNIP>
>> Case Grande police got the identifying N-number off the plane tail and
>> located a Paradise Valley address.
>>
> <SNIP>
>> Walker said that the victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid
>> student pilot's certificate and that the plane, a 1961 Nord owned by
>> the Lundells, was not registered.
>>
>
>
> If the aircraft wasn't registered how did they tie it to a Paradise Valley
> address?
>

[Jack]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

> If the aircraft wasn't registered how did they tie it to a Paradise Valley
> address?

Not registered in AZ. Despite the opinion of local authorities, AZ is
not the world.


Jack

[Jack]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

> I understand that but they did it fast enough to get the police to the house
> before the father arrived there with the son. So while they might well have
> gotten the address of the owners home from people at the airport I doubt the
> N-number had anything to do with it.

You never heard the old saying, "You can outrun a Ford but you can't
outrun a Motorola?" This ain't rocket science.

It would take a matter of seconds to call in the N-number, look it up on
the FAA or other websites, and dispatch a car in the area to the residence.

Anyway, since the Doc was bringing the trophy home to the folks, he
probably stopped first at the local car-wash to hose it off.

And, if you might understandably refuse to be flippant about such a
tragedy, that's understandable -- but at least keep in mind that people
often do some very weird stuff when they are in shock.


Jack

[Jack]

Larry Dighera wrote:

> Well, I'm old enough to remember Edward R. Morrow. He attempted to
> provide accurate, in-depth information.
>
> There has always been Yellow Journalism*, but those who indulge in it
> ultimately find themselves ostracized by their peers.

But it's all relative. The level of their peers declines as well.

Have you noticed how many celebrity trash magazines there are at the
checkout counter these days, all with the same cover story?


Jack

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Jack" > wrote in message
. net...
> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>
>> I understand that but they did it fast enough to get the police to the
>> house before the father arrived there with the son. So while they might
>> well have gotten the address of the owners home from people at the
>> airport I doubt the N-number had anything to do with it.
>
> You never heard the old saying, "You can outrun a Ford but you can't
> outrun a Motorola?" This ain't rocket science.
>
> It would take a matter of seconds to call in the N-number, look it up on
> the FAA or other websites, and dispatch a car in the area to the
> residence.
>
> Anyway, since the Doc was bringing the trophy home to the folks, he
> probably stopped first at the local car-wash to hose it off.
>
> And, if you might understandably refuse to be flippant about such a
> tragedy, that's understandable -- but at least keep in mind that people
> often do some very weird stuff when they are in shock.
>
>
> Jack

Jack since you are responding to a thread that is several months old and you
chose not to post what I was responding to the entire point of the sub
thread was that the plane WAS NOT registered with the FAA.

My complaint was not with the timeline only the way the story was written.

[Jack]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

> My complaint was not with the timeline only the way the story was written.

What do you expect from a guy who's a month or more behind? I promise
I'll catch up so that I can be offensive in a more up-to-date manner.


Jack

[Jack]

Hugo Rannou wrote:

> Conard, chit

That's very rude, Hugo.

Now go stand in the corner, or I'll report you to the DGSE.

C'est "bye-bye".



Jack