Dangers of Road Landings

[[email protected]]

As a pilot who operated off county roads, has made many landings on
freeways and interstate highways, I don't feel uncomfortable doing it.
But, the average pilot doesn't give much thought to the possible
consequences or the hidden dangers. Much more to it than meets the eye.
This was an intentional post to make pilots think and to stir the pot a
little. This includes airplanes and helicopters.
Selway Kid

[.Blueskies.]

> wrote in message oups.com...
> As a pilot who operated off county roads, has made many landings on
> freeways and interstate highways, I don't feel uncomfortable doing it.
> But, the average pilot doesn't give much thought to the possible
> consequences or the hidden dangers. Much more to it than meets the eye.
> This was an intentional post to make pilots think and to stir the pot a
> little. This includes airplanes and helicopters.
> Selway Kid
>

Potholes, sharp turns, powerlines, ground traffic...

[kontiki]

..Blueskies. wrote:
>
> Potholes, sharp turns, powerlines, ground traffic...
>
curbs, signs, fire hydrants.....

[John]

lack of turn signals or brake lights on plane . . .

Seriously . . . I shudder each time i contemplate landing on a road.
Drivers are so unpredictable around other cars . . . I get the cold
clanks thinking of their reaction to see a plane settling into a flare
in front of them. Or perhaps worst yet, behind them. First instinct
for most would be to stomp on the brakes.

John

[gregg]

kontiki wrote:

> .Blueskies. wrote:
>>
>> Potholes, sharp turns, powerlines, ground traffic...
>>
> curbs, signs, fire hydrants.....

One way streets ;^)

G

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments,
Restoration of my 1919 Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat, and
Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/index.html

[Stubby]

John wrote:
> lack of turn signals or brake lights on plane . . .
>
> Seriously . . . I shudder each time i contemplate landing on a road.
> Drivers are so unpredictable around other cars . . . I get the cold
> clanks thinking of their reaction to see a plane settling into a flare
> in front of them. Or perhaps worst yet, behind them. First instinct
> for most would be to stomp on the brakes.

Around Boston you would have to accelerate to 80 mph during your roll out.

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:30:43 -0400, Stubby
> wrote in
>::

>
>Around Boston you would have to accelerate to 80 mph during your roll out.

Given that it was engine failure that probably precipitated the
emergency landing, that may be problematic.

I would guess that virtually invisible overhead wires are the most
important hazard to highway landings.

[John]

Stubby

Around Atlanta, you might have to go beyond the Vne for some planes to
merge into traffic.

John

[George Patterson]

John wrote:

> First instinct
> for most would be to stomp on the brakes.

First instinct for most in New Jersey would be to hit the gas to cut you off.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Stubby]

George Patterson wrote:
> John wrote:
>
>> First instinct
>> for most would be to stomp on the brakes.
>
>
> First instinct for most in New Jersey would be to hit the gas to cut you
> off.

It seems incredible but when I was working on my ASES on the Merrimack,
north of Boston, there were idiots on "ski-doos" that would race the
plane during high speed taxi and while landin. The real fools would
play "chicken" with the plane, trying to become propellor-bait. I
suspect a part of this crowd was actually drunk.

[George Patterson]

Stubby wrote:

> The real fools would
> play "chicken" with the plane, trying to become propellor-bait.

Pilots in China during WWII had to deal with this behaviour all the time. The
lower class Chinese believed that if they ran close enough ahead of the props of
a rapidly moving aircraft, the props would chop up their personal demons, who
would be following them. Did you notice if any of these guys near Boston were
oriental? :-)

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Dudley Henriques]

This is good advice.
If I had my way, I'd have every student pilot in the world sit down and have
a cup of coffee with an experienced ag pilot as a pre-requsite to the PPL.
Dudley Henriques

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> As a pilot who operated off county roads, has made many landings on
> freeways and interstate highways, I don't feel uncomfortable doing it.
> But, the average pilot doesn't give much thought to the possible
> consequences or the hidden dangers. Much more to it than meets the eye.
> This was an intentional post to make pilots think and to stir the pot a
> little. This includes airplanes and helicopters.
> Selway Kid
>

[John]

Dudley . . . I am certain you are right. A lot could be accomplished
if students would spend a lot of time with the "old pelicans" No
pressure . . .no rush . . . probably not in a cockpit . . . Better in a
hanger or sitting watching others in the pattern.

blue skies

John

[Franklin Newton]

Back in the 60's the US ARMY had an excellent course and the facilities for
teaching road landings in F/W aircraft.

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
k.net...
> This is good advice.
> If I had my way, I'd have every student pilot in the world sit down and
have
> a cup of coffee with an experienced ag pilot as a pre-requsite to the PPL.
> Dudley Henriques
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > As a pilot who operated off county roads, has made many landings on
> > freeways and interstate highways, I don't feel uncomfortable doing it.
> > But, the average pilot doesn't give much thought to the possible
> > consequences or the hidden dangers. Much more to it than meets the eye.
> > This was an intentional post to make pilots think and to stir the pot a
> > little. This includes airplanes and helicopters.
> > Selway Kid
> >
>
>

[Bob Gardner]

High on the list of the hazards of road landings is that you might end up on
the 6 o'clock news...as was the case with the pilot in Baton Rouge.

Bob Gardner

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> As a pilot who operated off county roads, has made many landings on
> freeways and interstate highways, I don't feel uncomfortable doing it.
> But, the average pilot doesn't give much thought to the possible
> consequences or the hidden dangers. Much more to it than meets the eye.
> This was an intentional post to make pilots think and to stir the pot a
> little. This includes airplanes and helicopters.
> Selway Kid
>

[Marty]

Well, it was the takeoff that he messed up.
I tend to think that all the attention was a large factor. He may have been
a little too focused outside the plane. On one occasion I had to fight a
tremendous urge to show off.
Years ago with <200hrs under my belt, I got into the line-up to fly down the
Chicago lake front during the Air & Water Show. Fighting that little voice
saying "Go ahead and roll it, you can do it! The crowd will love it" wasn't
easy to ignore, but I did. The likely outcome would have been a Tri-Pacer
and it's dead pilot being fished from Lake Michigan or worse, an encounter
with beach comers.

Marty

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> High on the list of the hazards of road landings is that you might end up
> on the 6 o'clock news...as was the case with the pilot in Baton Rouge.
>
> Bob Gardner
>

[Morgans]

"George Patterson" > wrote
>
> First instinct for most in New Jersey would be to hit the gas to cut you
off.

LOL!

Almost. You would have a better chance of being cut, it the plane had turn
signals, for warning of a lane change. <g>
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote:
> This is good advice.
> If I had my way, I'd have every student pilot in the world sit down and have
> a cup of coffee with an experienced ag pilot as a pre-requsite to the PPL.

My private checkride was conducted by an experienced ag pilot examiner.
No coffee, but a large chunk of the oral exam consisted of him relaying
ag-pilot stories.

[Tom]

There used to be a road alongside a Jean NV restaurant (the Bonny and Clyde
death car was exhibited there, maybe still is there, 35 or so years ago)
that a friend and I used to fly to from NLV in the early 70's or so.

I was in my C-140, and he in his C-120. The last time we went there, unknown
to us, there had been a drag race on this abandoned road and more unknown to
us they had left some tall, very tall, upright posts on each side of the
narrow road.

We just thought we were soooo cool, landing and then taxiing up to the front
of the restaurant, impressing all the girls. Hey, we'd done it several times
without incident.

On takeoff, this last time, he preceded me and I watched, as I was rolling,
him make a really slow low turn to the left, looked really dangerous. As I
rotated, I suddenly saw those poles and turned hard to the left, but the
left wing hit the pole putting a nice deep dent about 2' in on the port wing
and breaking the pole off.

Scared the living crap outta me.

Never landed on a road again.
"kontiki" > wrote in message
...
> .Blueskies. wrote:
>>
>> Potholes, sharp turns, powerlines, ground traffic...
> curbs, signs, fire hydrants.....
>

[Roger]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 19:31:36 -0700, "Tom" > wrote:

>There used to be a road alongside a Jean NV restaurant (the Bonny and Clyde
>death car was exhibited there, maybe still is there, 35 or so years ago)
>that a friend and I used to fly to from NLV in the early 70's or so.
>
>I was in my C-140, and he in his C-120. The last time we went there, unknown
>to us, there had been a drag race on this abandoned road and more unknown to
>us they had left some tall, very tall, upright posts on each side of the
>narrow road.
>
>We just thought we were soooo cool, landing and then taxiing up to the front
>of the restaurant, impressing all the girls. Hey, we'd done it several times
>without incident.
>
>On takeoff, this last time, he preceded me and I watched, as I was rolling,
>him make a really slow low turn to the left, looked really dangerous. As I
>rotated, I suddenly saw those poles and turned hard to the left, but the
>left wing hit the pole putting a nice deep dent about 2' in on the port wing
>and breaking the pole off.
>
>Scared the living crap outta me.

Around here, if there's a nice paved road, pick a nearby field. Most
of the roads around here have so many wires crossing them it's like a
net and it'd be difficult to get down between them.

The expressway might not be too bad, but it even has low hanging power
lines over it. However M-20 coming in from the west is 5 lanes wide
and the last 4 or 5 miles have wires over the road every few hundred
feet with a couple of exceptions.

If you find a pave road in the country and a space with no homes or
corners it would *probably* work, but if there is a row of home or
even a few you'll probably find electric or telephone wires over the
road.

OTOH, I remember a stretch of road a ways north of here, but still in
the county that had a big 36 painted on it and about a half mile later
was an upside down 18. It wasn't there long before someone had it
painted over.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Never landed on a road again.
>"kontiki" > wrote in message
...
>> .Blueskies. wrote:
>>>
>>> Potholes, sharp turns, powerlines, ground traffic...
>> curbs, signs, fire hydrants.....
>>
>

[Roger]

Which reminds me...Those posts... that is.

One of the locals was on his way to Sun-n'-Fun some years back when
the engine in his Comanche 180 quite over the Tennessee mountains. He
was out of gas, but should have had enough to make the fly-in with
plenty of reserve.

He dead sticked it onto a gently winding mountain road and was doing
really well until he got to that mail box set on top of a steel pipe
full of concrete. It put more than a 2" dent in the wing. Actually
it took most of the one wing off, but it didn't hurt the mail box one
bit.

Turns out the mice had gotten into the wings and eaten holes in the
bladders. Apparently they didn't leak until the fuel got down to the
point where there wasn't enough pressure to hold the bladder against
the aluminum and the holes opened up.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger

[Matt Whiting]

Tom wrote:

> Scared the living crap outta me.
>
> Never landed on a road again.

But that had little to do with landing on a road and more to do with not
doing a proper runway check before takeoff. Any time you land off-road,
it is smart to walk the "field" prior to takeoff. Even major airports
do periodic FOD checks on the runways.


Matt

[[email protected]]

Good chance he was relating experiences as they relate to what you were
about to do in your flying career. I do the same thing. Not to impress
young pilots with my daring-do, but to pass on the experience I got the
hard way.
I've done more stupid things and made more mistakes than any room full
of a hundred pilots or more. Fortunately I learned from those mistakes
before one killed me.
I've logged more than 13,000 hours in the lowest reaches of the
airspace system in both airplanes and helicopters, and another 9-10,000
hours at in the safer altitudes. The areas of most danger are those
down low.
Cheers
Selway Kid

[Seth Masia]

This is a really good idea. It's also a really good idea to sit down with
an experienced local glider pilot before flying in or near mountains. You
can get an accurate idea of where to expect downdrafts and rollers.

Seth

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
k.net...
> This is good advice.
> If I had my way, I'd have every student pilot in the world sit down and
> have a cup of coffee with an experienced ag pilot as a pre-requsite to the
> PPL.
> Dudley Henriques
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> As a pilot who operated off county roads, has made many landings on
>> freeways and interstate highways, I don't feel uncomfortable doing it.
>> But, the average pilot doesn't give much thought to the possible
>> consequences or the hidden dangers. Much more to it than meets the eye.
>> This was an intentional post to make pilots think and to stir the pot a
>> little. This includes airplanes and helicopters.
>> Selway Kid
>>
>
>

[John Doe]

does anyone have the video from this?


"Marty" > wrote in message
...
> Well, it was the takeoff that he messed up.
> I tend to think that all the attention was a large factor. He may have
> been a little too focused outside the plane. On one occasion I had to
> fight a tremendous urge to show off.
> Years ago with <200hrs under my belt, I got into the line-up to fly down
> the Chicago lake front during the Air & Water Show. Fighting that little
> voice saying "Go ahead and roll it, you can do it! The crowd will love it"
> wasn't easy to ignore, but I did. The likely outcome would have been a
> Tri-Pacer and it's dead pilot being fished from Lake Michigan or worse, an
> encounter with beach comers.
>
> Marty
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
>> High on the list of the hazards of road landings is that you might end up
>> on the 6 o'clock news...as was the case with the pilot in Baton Rouge.
>>
>> Bob Gardner
>>
>
>

[NW_PILOT]

Yea, when I was living in Rural North Dakota would not be uncommon to see AG
aircraft on the road or taxing down the street!


"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
k.net...
> This is good advice.
> If I had my way, I'd have every student pilot in the world sit down and
have
> a cup of coffee with an experienced ag pilot as a pre-requsite to the PPL.
> Dudley Henriques
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > As a pilot who operated off county roads, has made many landings on
> > freeways and interstate highways, I don't feel uncomfortable doing it.
> > But, the average pilot doesn't give much thought to the possible
> > consequences or the hidden dangers. Much more to it than meets the eye.
> > This was an intentional post to make pilots think and to stir the pot a
> > little. This includes airplanes and helicopters.
> > Selway Kid
> >
>
>

[[email protected]]

I did some spraying near McCluskey one year!! You have to be from there
to know where it is.....Or, be a spray pilot <ggg>

[cjcampbell]

wrote:
> As a pilot who operated off county roads, has made many landings on
> freeways and interstate highways,

I can see why some pilots might operate regularly from county roads,
but not from freeways and interstate highways. No doubt I am suffering
from a temporary lack of imagination.

It seems to me that the hazards would vary greatly depending on kind of
road and whether the road is used regularly by aircraft. It would also
depend on locale.

In western Washington, for example, operating from any kind of road
would be very difficult. Few roads run straight for any distance and
almost all of them are crowded by trees. Most pilots in our area would
prefer a golf course over a road for emergency landings (and there are
plenty of golf courses). The roads also tend to run up and down steep
hills and most of them have powerlines. Freeways would work a little
better in an emergency, but we have an awful lot of overpasses, signs,
and even overhead electric cables for buses. Traffic seems to me to be
the least of the problems.

I could see landing on some pipeline rights of way, which look more
attractive than most roads, or even some forest service roads, rough as
they are, before a county road or freeway.

[Darrel Toepfer]

Montblack wrote:
> ("John Doe" wrote)
>
>> does anyone have the video from this?
>
> 1973 Cessna 210L using the road as a runway.
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2965211C
> (Same link as below ...wait for it. Link still works on Halloween)
>
> <http://www.wafb.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=565126&h1=Pilot%20Who%20Made%20Emergency%20Landing%20Cras hes%20Plane%20on%20Second%20Attempt&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=188533&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&rnd=72883635>

Anybody figure out a way to save them to disc?

[Montblack]

("John Doe" wrote)
> does anyone have the video from this?


1973 Cessna 210L using the road as a runway.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2965211C
(Same link as below ...wait for it. Link still works on Halloween)


<http://www.wafb.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=565126&h1=Pilot%20Who%20Made%20Emergency%20Landing%20Cras hes%20Plane%20on%20Second%20Attempt&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=188533&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&rnd=72883635>


Montblack

[Jay Honeck]

> > does anyone have the video from this?
>
>
> 1973 Cessna 210L using the road as a runway.
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2965211C
> (Same link as below ...wait for it. Link still works on Halloween)

Actually, thanks to John Osterhout, we've got it now, too!

See it on our video page at:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/aviation_videos.htm

The specific video is:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/Cessna_Takeoff_Crash.mpeg
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Allen]

"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote in message
.. .
> Montblack wrote:
>> ("John Doe" wrote)
>>
>>> does anyone have the video from this?
>>
>> 1973 Cessna 210L using the road as a runway.
>> http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2965211C
>> (Same link as below ...wait for it. Link still works on Halloween)
>>
>> <http://www.wafb.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=565126&h1=Pilot%20Who%20Made%20Emergency%20Landing%20Cras hes%20Plane%20on%20Second%20Attempt&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=188533&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&rnd=72883635>
>
> Anybody figure out a way to save them to disc?

It is in your "temporary internet files" directory as a 6.78 mb .dat file.
What you open it with I have no clue.

Allen

[Darrel Toepfer]

Allen wrote:

>>Anybody figure out a way to save them to disc?
>
> It is in your "temporary internet files" directory as a 6.78 mb .dat file.
> What you open it with I have no clue.

That doesn't work though... If you play them it plays something else
(windoze media), if you move them from there they don't work at all...

Jay's is a clip of the clip, looking for the originals that had the
owner walking around and fueling it over the wing from a 5 gallon can...

Like you stated its 7 meg for the news story and 1 meg for the crash...

[Tom]

Weren't we discussing road landings? It has everything to do with landing
off-airport.


"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Tom wrote:
>
>> Scared the living crap outta me.
>>
>> Never landed on a road again.
>
> But that had little to do with landing on a road and more to do with not
> doing a proper runway check before takeoff. Any time you land off-road,
> it is smart to walk the "field" prior to takeoff. Even major airports do
> periodic FOD checks on the runways.
>
>
> Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Tom wrote:

> Weren't we discussing road landings? It has everything to do with landing
> off-airport.
>
>
> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Tom wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Scared the living crap outta me.
>>>
>>>Never landed on a road again.
>>
>>But that had little to do with landing on a road and more to do with not
>>doing a proper runway check before takeoff. Any time you land off-road,
>>it is smart to walk the "field" prior to takeoff. Even major airports do
>>periodic FOD checks on the runways.
>>
>>
>>Matt
>
>
>

No, it has everything to do with landing or taking off off-airport
INCORRECTLY.


Matt