Goose at FL 360????

[A Lieberman]

Is the following for real or is there a typo?

Geese in Class A airspace???

Allen
------------

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: UPS28 Make/Model: B757 Description: B-757
Date: 11/03/2005 Time: 2325

Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown

LOCATION
City: COLORADO SPRINGS State: CO Country: US

DESCRIPTION
ACFT, UPS28, A B757, ENROUTE FROM SDF TO MHR, STRUCK A GOOSE AT FL360.
ACFT DESCENDED TO FL280, DUE TO THE WINDSHIELD BEING CRACKED AND
CONTINUED
ON TO DESTINATION. PILOT DID NOT DECLARE AN EMERGENCY. OVER COLORADO
SPRINGS, CO

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 4 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:

WEATHER: NOT REPORTED

OTHER DATA
Activity: Business Phase: Cruise Operation: Air Carrier

[BTIZ]

not a typo...

yes... they can get that high..
taking advantage of the jet stream would be my guess

BT

"A Lieberman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Is the following for real or is there a typo?
>
> Geese in Class A airspace???
>
> Allen
> ------------
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: UPS28 Make/Model: B757 Description: B-757
> Date: 11/03/2005 Time: 2325
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Unknown
>
> LOCATION
> City: COLORADO SPRINGS State: CO Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> ACFT, UPS28, A B757, ENROUTE FROM SDF TO MHR, STRUCK A GOOSE AT FL360.
> ACFT DESCENDED TO FL280, DUE TO THE WINDSHIELD BEING CRACKED AND
> CONTINUED
> ON TO DESTINATION. PILOT DID NOT DECLARE AN EMERGENCY. OVER COLORADO
> SPRINGS, CO
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 4 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
>
> WEATHER: NOT REPORTED
>
> OTHER DATA
> Activity: Business Phase: Cruise Operation: Air Carrier

[Cub Driver]

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:01:58 -0600, A Lieberman >
wrote:

>Geese in Class A airspace???

updraft?


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Peter R.]

BTIZ > wrote:

> not a typo...
>
> yes... they can get that high..
> taking advantage of the jet stream would be my guess

The whole time of useful consciousness apparently is not an issue with a
goose? I wonder what gives a goose's lungs the ability to extract o2 at
that altitude?

--
Peter
























----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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[Matt Whiting]

A Lieberman wrote:

> Is the following for real or is there a typo?
>
> Geese in Class A airspace???
>
> Allen
> ------------
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: UPS28 Make/Model: B757 Description: B-757
> Date: 11/03/2005 Time: 2325
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Unknown
>
> LOCATION
> City: COLORADO SPRINGS State: CO Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> ACFT, UPS28, A B757, ENROUTE FROM SDF TO MHR, STRUCK A GOOSE AT FL360.
> ACFT DESCENDED TO FL280, DUE TO THE WINDSHIELD BEING CRACKED AND
> CONTINUED
> ON TO DESTINATION. PILOT DID NOT DECLARE AN EMERGENCY. OVER COLORADO
> SPRINGS, CO
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 4 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
>
> WEATHER: NOT REPORTED
>
> OTHER DATA
> Activity: Business Phase: Cruise Operation: Air Carrier


I'll bet that goose didn't have a clearance either! What I wonder, is
how could you be sure it was a goose at that speed? Maybe they did DNA
analysis on the stain left on the windshield.

Matt

[A Lieberman]

On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 07:09:56 -0500, Peter R. wrote:

> The whole time of useful consciousness apparently is not an issue with a
> goose? I wonder what gives a goose's lungs the ability to extract o2 at
> that altitude?

In addition to what Peter wrote above, I wonder what gives the goose the
ability to even survive the extreme cold temperatures. O2 was my first
thought and temp came secondary.

Or the ability to maintain lift at that altitude since the air would be
quite thin?

I know goose down clothing are warm, but are Geese that tough?

Allen

[John]

not to mention flying (for birds) is high metabolism work . . .. how
do they make it work that high

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "BTIZ" > said:
>yes... they can get that high..
>taking advantage of the jet stream would be my guess

Note the location was Colorado Springs. Maybe it got pushed that high by
a mountain wave and wasn't any happier about it than the 757 was.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The way NT mounts filesystems is something I'd expect to find in a
barnyard or on a stock-breeding farm.
-- Mike Andrews

[Carl Ellis]

> Is the following for real or is there a typo?

Must be a flock of turbine (super) Goose.

[.Blueskies.]

"A Lieberman" > wrote in message .. .
> Is the following for real or is there a typo?
>
> Geese in Class A airspace???
>
> Allen
> ------------
>

How did they know it was a goose?

[BTIZ]

There was an article in outdoor magazine last summer about how high birds
fly and it mentioned their O2 ability to "recirculation" to get max 02 and
that migrating birds do change altitude based on headwind/tailwind

I once dodged, not that I moved much other than flinching, a soaring raptor
at FL210 in SW Wyoming. I was in a B-52 and the co-pilot and I both saw it.

In response to another posting in "how do they know what it was?", yes, they
do take DNA samples from evidence left behind, along with tell tale feathers
etc. Had to do that one night after missing a snow owl on a ILS approach. He
left a grease trail and some feathers down the side of the B-1.

BT

"A Lieberman" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 07:09:56 -0500, Peter R. wrote:
>
>> The whole time of useful consciousness apparently is not an issue with a
>> goose? I wonder what gives a goose's lungs the ability to extract o2 at
>> that altitude?
>
> In addition to what Peter wrote above, I wonder what gives the goose the
> ability to even survive the extreme cold temperatures. O2 was my first
> thought and temp came secondary.
>
> Or the ability to maintain lift at that altitude since the air would be
> quite thin?
>
> I know goose down clothing are warm, but are Geese that tough?
>
> Allen

[Matt Whiting]

A Lieberman wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 07:09:56 -0500, Peter R. wrote:
>
>
>>The whole time of useful consciousness apparently is not an issue with a
>>goose? I wonder what gives a goose's lungs the ability to extract o2 at
>>that altitude?
>
>
> In addition to what Peter wrote above, I wonder what gives the goose the
> ability to even survive the extreme cold temperatures. O2 was my first
> thought and temp came secondary.
>
> Or the ability to maintain lift at that altitude since the air would be
> quite thin?
>
> I know goose down clothing are warm, but are Geese that tough?

Have you ever gotten near a goose, especially one with goslings? They
are tough as nails and mean to match. I've seen geese take on a German
Shepherd.


Matt

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "BTIZ" > said:
>etc. Had to do that one night after missing a snow owl on a ILS approach. He
>left a grease trail and some feathers down the side of the B-1.

I wouldn't call that "missing", myself.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"SPARC" is "CRAPS" backwards --Rob Pike

[Mike Rapoport]

Geese have been sighted flying over Mt Everest (29,035')

Mike
MU-2


"A Lieberman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Is the following for real or is there a typo?
>
> Geese in Class A airspace???
>
> Allen
> ------------
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: UPS28 Make/Model: B757 Description: B-757
> Date: 11/03/2005 Time: 2325
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Unknown
>
> LOCATION
> City: COLORADO SPRINGS State: CO Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> ACFT, UPS28, A B757, ENROUTE FROM SDF TO MHR, STRUCK A GOOSE AT FL360.
> ACFT DESCENDED TO FL280, DUE TO THE WINDSHIELD BEING CRACKED AND
> CONTINUED
> ON TO DESTINATION. PILOT DID NOT DECLARE AN EMERGENCY. OVER COLORADO
> SPRINGS, CO
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 4 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
>
> WEATHER: NOT REPORTED
>
> OTHER DATA
> Activity: Business Phase: Cruise Operation: Air Carrier

[N93332]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "BTIZ" > said:
>>yes... they can get that high..
>>taking advantage of the jet stream would be my guess
>
> Note the location was Colorado Springs. Maybe it got pushed that high by
> a mountain wave and wasn't any happier about it than the 757 was.

Probably a lot less happier about the outcome...

The goose was a terrorist!

Maybe Homeland Security should figure out how to equip the geese with
transponders to reduce bird strikes and the possibility of spreading bird
flu.

;-)

[AES]

In article . com>,
"John" > wrote:

> not to mention flying (for birds) is high metabolism work . . .. how
> do they make it work that high

I believe I read long ago that there are migratory birds of some variety
that make a (nonstop?) migratory flight from the Indian Ocean across the
Himalayas, including flying higher than Everest. Apparently bird
metabolism allows some substantial sustained flight at altitudes above
where humans can even maintain life long term . . .?

[john smith]

Those old Grumman's can really fly, can't they?
I wonder if it was converted from round engines to turbines?
You would think ATC would have warned each of the aircraft about
conflicting traffic based on the transponder returns.
Usually, there are two NTSB postings, one for each aircraft, when a
mid-air collision between two aircraft occur. No N-number on the Grumman
Goose?
:-))


> Is the following for real or is there a typo?
> Geese in Class A airspace???
> Allen
> ------------
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: UPS28 Make/Model: B757 Description: B-757
> Date: 11/03/2005 Time: 2325
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Unknown
>
> LOCATION
> City: COLORADO SPRINGS State: CO Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> ACFT, UPS28, A B757, ENROUTE FROM SDF TO MHR, STRUCK A GOOSE AT FL360.
> ACFT DESCENDED TO FL280, DUE TO THE WINDSHIELD BEING CRACKED AND
> CONTINUED
> ON TO DESTINATION. PILOT DID NOT DECLARE AN EMERGENCY. OVER COLORADO
> SPRINGS, CO
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 4 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
>
> WEATHER: NOT REPORTED
>
> OTHER DATA
> Activity: Business Phase: Cruise Operation: Air Carrier

[Dale]

In article >,
A Lieberman > wrote:

> Is the following for real or is there a typo?
>
> Geese in Class A airspace???

Not that surprising. An Alaska Airline 727 took a salmon strike a few
years back.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Darkwing]

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:oa4bf.2746$zu6.38@fed1read04...
> There was an article in outdoor magazine last summer about how high birds
> fly and it mentioned their O2 ability to "recirculation" to get max 02 and
> that migrating birds do change altitude based on headwind/tailwind
>
> I once dodged, not that I moved much other than flinching, a soaring
> raptor at FL210 in SW Wyoming. I was in a B-52 and the co-pilot and I both
> saw it.
>
> In response to another posting in "how do they know what it was?", yes,
> they do take DNA samples from evidence left behind, along with tell tale
> feathers etc. Had to do that one night after missing a snow owl on a ILS
> approach. He left a grease trail and some feathers down the side of the
> B-1.
>
> BT


They don't actually pay you to fly those incredible planes so they?

-----------------------
DW

[Michael 182]

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 16:31:03 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
> wrote:

>Geese have been sighted flying over Mt Everest (29,035')
>
>Mike
>MU-2
>

From Audubon's website:

http://magazine.audubon.org/birds/birds0011.html


Michael

[Mark Klebanoff]

On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:25:29 UTC, (Paul
Tomblin) wrote:

> In a previous article, "BTIZ" > said:
> >yes... they can get that high..
> >taking advantage of the jet stream would be my guess
>
> Note the location was Colorado Springs. Maybe it got pushed that high by
> a mountain wave and wasn't any happier about it than the 757 was.
>
>
I once read about a B707 that hit a goose at FL350 over the North
Atlantic, so they don't need any help from mountains to get that high.

--

[Montblack]

("Michael 182" wrote)
> From Audubon's website:
>
> http://magazine.audubon.org/birds/birds0011.html

Interseting article.

Bar-headed geese studied by Professor Swan. <g>


Montblack

[Skywise]

Michael 182 > wrote in
:

> On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 16:31:03 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
> > wrote:
>
>>Geese have been sighted flying over Mt Everest (29,035')
>>
>>Mike
>>MU-2
>>
>
> From Audubon's website:
>
> http://magazine.audubon.org/birds/birds0011.html
>
>
> Michael

From the article, "helicopters cannot fly here."

Not anymore!!! Of course, the article was written in 2000 so it
was a valid statement then.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Supernews sucks - blocking google, usenet.com & newsfeeds.com posts

[John T]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message

>
> I wouldn't call that "missing", myself.

Maybe they were shooting at the goose and decided ramming was their only
option to bring it down... :)

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

[Sylvain]

Peter R. wrote:
> The whole time of useful consciousness apparently is not an issue with a
> goose? I wonder what gives a goose's lungs the ability to extract o2 at
> that altitude?

I would guess that it might not be an issue of lung size, but of
brain size (relative to the size of the body); might very well
function at full potential all the way to the stratosphere :-)

--Sylvain

[George Patterson]

Peter R. wrote:

> I wonder what gives a goose's lungs the ability to extract o2 at
> that altitude?

I would assume they have a different permeable membrane than do humans.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Dave]

Dono...

But they are (at least the Canada Geese) remarkably efficient
flyers..

Seem to fly with hardly any effort at all..and highly organized in
groups....sorry.. "flights"

Dave




On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 05:40:03 -0500, Cub Driver <usenet AT danford DOT
net> wrote:

>On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:01:58 -0600, A Lieberman >
>wrote:
>
>>Geese in Class A airspace???
>
>updraft?
>
>
>-- all the best, Dan Ford
>
>email: usenet AT danford DOT net
>
>Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
>Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
>the blog: www.danford.net
>In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[George Patterson]

Morgans wrote:

> Birds have a neat thing going on with their lungs. While we take in fresh
> air, the oxy gets taken up while the co2 gets taken out of the blood, then
> we exhale. Not much exchanging goes on as we exhale. Birds don't waste that
> portion of time we spend exhaling, but instead have more air being pumped
> across the membranes from reserve sacs. It is almost a circular motion type
> of breathing, with the possibility of almost double exchange compared to us.
> I'm quite sure I don't explain it well, as it is tough to comprehend.

I think you did very well. Sounds almost as good as if they had two separate
lung systems. Sounds to me sort of like a bagpipe; the lungs keep the sacs full,
and they get a constant flow of oxygen from the sacs.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Morgans]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:f%dbf.2500$SV1.934@trndny01...
> Peter R. wrote:
>
> > I wonder what gives a goose's lungs the ability to extract o2 at
> > that altitude?
>
> I would assume they have a different permeable membrane than do humans.

Much more than that going on. Did you get a chance to read the article that
someone posted a link to, about the bar geese? It was good, I thought.

Birds have a neat thing going on with their lungs. While we take in fresh
air, the oxy gets taken up while the co2 gets taken out of the blood, then
we exhale. Not much exchanging goes on as we exhale. Birds don't waste that
portion of time we spend exhaling, but instead have more air being pumped
across the membranes from reserve sacs. It is almost a circular motion type
of breathing, with the possibility of almost double exchange compared to us.
I'm quite sure I don't explain it well, as it is tough to comprehend. (as it
was told to me)

The bar geese have some extra benefits, also, thought to have evolved over
time with the species, and where they migrate. Their hemoglobin is extra
efficient, and their lungs therefore extra efficient.
--
Jim in NC

[Darrel Toepfer]

Skywise wrote:

> From the article, "helicopters cannot fly here."
>
> Not anymore!!! Of course, the article was written in 2000 so it
> was a valid statement then.

That *record* was reported to be a hoax...

I haven't heard about any other attempts...

[BTIZ]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "BTIZ" > said:
>>etc. Had to do that one night after missing a snow owl on a ILS approach.
>>He
>>left a grease trail and some feathers down the side of the B-1.
>
> I wouldn't call that "missing", myself.
>

he did not hit the windshield or the engine intakes.. so we counted it as a
miss... even though he left some feathers etc behind

BT

[BTIZ]

>
> They don't actually pay you to fly those incredible planes so they?
>
> -----------------------
> DW

yes... and collecting a pension to boot..

[Skywise]

Darrel Toepfer > wrote in news:Qmgbf.13252$td.10696
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:

> Skywise wrote:
>
>> From the article, "helicopters cannot fly here."
>>
>> Not anymore!!! Of course, the article was written in 2000 so it
>> was a valid statement then.
>
> That *record* was reported to be a hoax...
>
> I haven't heard about any other attempts...
>

Just in case we're not talking about the same thing, I'm referring
to the helicopter that alighted on Mt. Everest that was discussed
in this group some months back.

<http://www.mounteverest.net/story/FrenchEverestMysteryChoppersUtopiasummit-
VIDEOMay272005.shtml>

or <http://tinyurl.com/9pf34>

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Supernews sucks - blocking google, usenet.com & newsfeeds.com posts

[Skywise]

"BTIZ" > wrote in news:JPgbf.3249$zu6.1147
@fed1read04:

>>
>> They don't actually pay you to fly those incredible planes so they?
>>
>> -----------------------
>> DW
>
> yes... and collecting a pension to boot..

Two commments....

You lucky *******!!! :)

and...

Thank you. (to all our servicemen)

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Supernews sucks - blocking google, usenet.com & newsfeeds.com posts

[Morgans]

"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote
>
> That *record* (landing on Everest) was reported to be a hoax...
>
> I haven't heard about any other attempts...

Only in the way that "landing" was defined. It just briefly "rested" one
skid on the summit, but never really stopped flying.
--
Jim in NC

[d&tm]

"A Lieberman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Is the following for real or is there a typo?
>
> Geese in Class A airspace???
>
> Allen
> ------------
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: UPS28 Make/Model: B757 Description: B-757
> Date: 11/03/2005 Time: 2325
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Unknown
>
> LOCATION
> City: COLORADO SPRINGS State: CO Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> ACFT, UPS28, A B757, ENROUTE FROM SDF TO MHR, STRUCK A GOOSE AT FL360.
> ACFT DESCENDED TO FL280, DUE TO THE WINDSHIELD BEING CRACKED AND
> CONTINUED
> ON TO DESTINATION. PILOT DID NOT DECLARE AN EMERGENCY. OVER COLORADO
> SPRINGS, CO
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 4 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
>
> WEATHER: NOT REPORTED
>
> OTHER DATA
> Activity: Business Phase: Cruise Operation: Air Carrier


No doubt geese ( and some other birds) can fly this high. I read somewhere
the record was 37,900 ft . But my question is why did the aircraft only
descend to FL280? With a cracked windscreen and the risk of
depressurisation wouldnt it have been more prudent to descend to 10,000 ft
and avoid scaring the pax with the oxygen masks dropping out of the roof?.
terry

[Skywise]

"Morgans" > wrote in news:nZgbf.9820$7s1.8171
@fe04.lga:

>
> "Darrel Toepfer" > wrote
>>
>> That *record* (landing on Everest) was reported to be a hoax...
>>
>> I haven't heard about any other attempts...
>
> Only in the way that "landing" was defined. It just briefly "rested" one
> skid on the summit, but never really stopped flying.

Well, let's be realistic. The summit isn't exactly in the
right shape to land a chopper on both skids and neutralize
the collective. Unless somebody builds a landing platform
or levels the top of the mountain, a 'real' landing isn't
possible. Somehow I expect even proposing such would meet
quite vocal resistance. The chopper may have been hovering
at zero AGL, but it was stable and people probably could
have gotten on or off the aircraft. For all intents and
purposes, it's a record, at least in my opinion.

Also, in the context of the discussion, the point is that a
helicopter has been demostrated as being able to fly at the
altitudes in question.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Supernews sucks - blocking google, usenet.com & newsfeeds.com posts

[Seth Masia]

Wasn't a miss for the owl . . .


"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:oa4bf.2746$zu6.38@fed1read04...
> There was an article in outdoor magazine last summer about how high birds
> fly and it mentioned their O2 ability to "recirculation" to get max 02 and
> that migrating birds do change altitude based on headwind/tailwind
>
> I once dodged, not that I moved much other than flinching, a soaring
> raptor at FL210 in SW Wyoming. I was in a B-52 and the co-pilot and I both
> saw it.
>
> In response to another posting in "how do they know what it was?", yes,
> they do take DNA samples from evidence left behind, along with tell tale
> feathers etc. Had to do that one night after missing a snow owl on a ILS
> approach. He left a grease trail and some feathers down the side of the
> B-1.
>
> BT
>
> "A Lieberman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 07:09:56 -0500, Peter R. wrote:
>>
>>> The whole time of useful consciousness apparently is not an issue with a
>>> goose? I wonder what gives a goose's lungs the ability to extract o2 at
>>> that altitude?
>>
>> In addition to what Peter wrote above, I wonder what gives the goose the
>> ability to even survive the extreme cold temperatures. O2 was my first
>> thought and temp came secondary.
>>
>> Or the ability to maintain lift at that altitude since the air would be
>> quite thin?
>>
>> I know goose down clothing are warm, but are Geese that tough?
>>
>> Allen
>
>

[BTIZ]

>>> They don't actually pay you to fly those incredible planes so they?
>>>
>>> -----------------------
>>> DW
>>
>> yes... and collecting a pension to boot..
>
> Two commments....
>
> You lucky *******!!! :)
>
> and...
>
> Thank you. (to all our servicemen)
>
> Brian
> --

thank you...
and
you're welcome
BT

[Mike Rapoport]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:ZPebf.991$Y97.815@trndny05...
> Morgans wrote:
>
>> Birds have a neat thing going on with their lungs. While we take in
>> fresh
>> air, the oxy gets taken up while the co2 gets taken out of the blood,
>> then
>> we exhale. Not much exchanging goes on as we exhale. Birds don't waste
>> that
>> portion of time we spend exhaling, but instead have more air being pumped
>> across the membranes from reserve sacs. It is almost a circular motion
>> type
>> of breathing, with the possibility of almost double exchange compared to
>> us.
>> I'm quite sure I don't explain it well, as it is tough to comprehend.
>
> I think you did very well. Sounds almost as good as if they had two
> separate lung systems. Sounds to me sort of like a bagpipe; the lungs keep
> the sacs full, and they get a constant flow of oxygen from the sacs.
>
> George Patterson
> Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your
> neighbor.
> It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

Birds also have a more efficient type of hemoglobin.

Mike
MU-2

[Mike Rapoport]

http://www.eurocopter.com/everest/



"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote in message
.. .
> Skywise wrote:
>
>> From the article, "helicopters cannot fly here."
>>
>> Not anymore!!! Of course, the article was written in 2000 so it
>> was a valid statement then.
>
> That *record* was reported to be a hoax...
>
> I haven't heard about any other attempts...

[BTIZ]

>
> No doubt geese ( and some other birds) can fly this high. I read
> somewhere
> the record was 37,900 ft . But my question is why did the aircraft only
> descend to FL280? With a cracked windscreen and the risk of
> depressurisation wouldnt it have been more prudent to descend to 10,000 ft
> and avoid scaring the pax with the oxygen masks dropping out of the
> roof?.
> terry

It depends on what the aircraft operations manual says... if only the outer
pane is cracked.. descend to xxx altitude... that will depend on the
strength of the inner pane.

BT

[Bob Chilcoat]

Not surprising. I was going to suggest that the O2/Hb dissociation curve
would probably be quite different, and might be adjustable with altitude.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
>
> Birds also have a more efficient type of hemoglobin.
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>

[Wallace Berry]

In article <ZPebf.991$Y97.815@trndny05>,
George Patterson > wrote:


>
> I think you did very well. Sounds almost as good as if they had two separate
> lung systems. Sounds to me sort of like a bagpipe; the lungs keep the sacs
> full,
> and they get a constant flow of oxygen from the sacs.
>
> George Patterson
> Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your
> neighbor.
> It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.



The bagpipe is a good analogy, with the bird's airsacs as the bags, and
the drones and chanter of the pipe analogous to the lungs. Birds lungs
are rigid and don't expand and contract the way mammalian lungs do. All
the bellows work is done by the airsacs.

By the way, there is a piper's tune called "The Circular Breath".

[Stefan]

Wallace Berry wrote:

> The bagpipe is a good analogy, with the bird's airsacs as the bags, and
> the drones and chanter of the pipe analogous to the lungs. Birds lungs
> are rigid and don't expand and contract the way mammalian lungs do. All
> the bellows work is done by the airsacs.

But all this doesn't solve the main problem: low partial O2 pressure.

Stefan

[Denny]

See:
http://magazine.audubon.org/birds/birds0011.html

denny

[customairmodels]

geese can make mince meat out of your a/c. dont throw away the memories.

www.customairmodels.com
immortalize your baby. get a custom model of your aircraft

[Peter R.]

customairmodels > wrote:

> geese can make mince meat out of your a/c. dont throw away the
> memories.

LOL! Saw that open door and walked right in, eh?

--
Peter
























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[Mark T. Dame]

N93332 wrote:
>
> The goose was a terrorist!
>
> Maybe Homeland Security should figure out how to equip the geese with
> transponders to reduce bird strikes and the possibility of spreading bird
> flu.

Or geese illegally wandering into the ADIZ.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame >
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"Don't be a flower snack!"
-- My son, "The Bean"

[Jens Krueger]

d&tm > wrote:

> > DESCRIPTION
> > ACFT, UPS28,

> With a cracked windscreen and the risk of
> depressurisation wouldnt it have been more prudent to descend to 10,000 ft
> and avoid scaring the pax with the oxygen masks dropping out of the roof?.

It was apparently a UPS A/C (No PAX) and my guess is that the COM
reccommends a descent to FL280 due to a possible cracked outer Window
Pane. Why would you do any more than required by the COM?

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