Are People Still Flying As Much Around You?

[Jay Honeck]

Mary and I have noticed a substantial (and depressing) drop off in personal
flying of late. Often we are the only plane in the pattern, nowadays.

Worse, we've notice far fewer people talking to ATC -- which indicates that
this may not be a local phenomenon. On Sunday, for example, we flew 90
minutes over to Rantoul, IL, and back, and heard maybe three other planes,
the whole way, outside of "working" aircraft. (And one of them was Jim
Burns, who was with us!)

We *do* tend to fly at "off" times (Sunday afternoons; Wednesdays and
Thursdays, mostly) -- but the change we're noticing has been pretty dramatic
since gas prices spiked. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many
people flying.

Anyone else noticing this?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 15:05:35 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote in
<3focf.315149$084.6932@attbi_s22>::

>There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many people flying.

Do you think it may be due to the recent tornado activity in Iowa?

[Jim Burns]

What I've really noticed is the number of beautiful clear calm days that
I've stopped by the airport for this or that and it's been totally
deserted.... nobody in the pattern.... nobody in the terminal.... nobody in
their hangers.... nobody anywhere. Nobody seems to be saying "Wow, what a
beautiful day!! Great day for flying or hanging out at the airport!" In
years past, these type of days would bring out all kinds of people to just
watch or take a ride around the patch.
Jim


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:3focf.315149$084.6932@attbi_s22...
> Mary and I have noticed a substantial (and depressing) drop off in
personal
> flying of late. Often we are the only plane in the pattern, nowadays.
>
> Worse, we've notice far fewer people talking to ATC -- which indicates
that
> this may not be a local phenomenon. On Sunday, for example, we flew 90
> minutes over to Rantoul, IL, and back, and heard maybe three other planes,
> the whole way, outside of "working" aircraft. (And one of them was Jim
> Burns, who was with us!)
>
> We *do* tend to fly at "off" times (Sunday afternoons; Wednesdays and
> Thursdays, mostly) -- but the change we're noticing has been pretty
dramatic
> since gas prices spiked. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many
> people flying.
>
> Anyone else noticing this?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Wiz]

Boy, I can tell you that here in the Washington, DC area ADIZ, flying
has dropped off substantially. Airports have lots of open spots on the
apron and in hangars, the DPE reports a 50% decrease in the number of
checkrides, and our flying club, which used to have a couple year
waiting list, now has 14 vacancies out of 60 spots.

Mark
Student pilot, KGAI

[rps]

I've noticed it as well. I attribute it to (not necessarily in order):

1) higher fuel prices;

2) most GA pilots fly VFR and don't use ATC and are counfused about the
TFRs all over the place that can get them busted;

3) purchase, maintenance, rental, and instruction costs have outpaced
growth in discretionary income (I don't have enough data to back this
up);

4) people now work longer hours and so have less free time (e.g., my
job used to permit me to skip a few hours during the day to fly - I can
no longer reasonably expect to do that so I put off flying until
weekends; however, I have other commitments on weekends because of
family and so flying loses); and

5) the post-9/11 Homeland Security rules make it less likely that
immigrants will get flight training.

[JohnH]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Mary and I have noticed a substantial (and depressing) drop off in
> personal flying of late. Often we are the only plane in the pattern,
> nowadays.

Insurance all but unobtainable, parts manufacturers dwindling, fuel prices
skyrocketing, chicken little Bush administration closing down as much
airspace as they can, lawsuits, complaints, airport closures, planes
crashing more than ever... Yes - flying is moving back to the domain of the
privileged few.

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Mary and I have noticed a substantial (and depressing) drop off in personal
> flying of late. Often we are the only plane in the pattern, nowadays.
>
> Worse, we've notice far fewer people talking to ATC -- which indicates that
> this may not be a local phenomenon. On Sunday, for example, we flew 90
> minutes over to Rantoul, IL, and back, and heard maybe three other planes,
> the whole way, outside of "working" aircraft. (And one of them was Jim
> Burns, who was with us!)
>
> We *do* tend to fly at "off" times (Sunday afternoons; Wednesdays and
> Thursdays, mostly) -- but the change we're noticing has been pretty dramatic
> since gas prices spiked. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many
> people flying.
>
> Anyone else noticing this?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

One of the flying group owners of the group I belong to told me they're
selling off one of the older 172's. I aksed if they were going to
replace it and he said "Not unless I have to. Nobody's flying anything
right now. Gas prices are killing us."

I do know that early this year if I didn't call a week or two in
advance I had trouble scheduling a 172 for training (the group had 4).
Now I routinely call a day in advance and have my pick. And most of the
time all the others are sitting on the tie downs when I go out to fly.
I just hope the group stays together long enough for me to finish my
PP.

John Stevens
Solo Student, ~35 hours

[John Theune]

Jim Burns wrote:

> What I've really noticed is the number of beautiful clear calm days that
> I've stopped by the airport for this or that and it's been totally
> deserted.... nobody in the pattern.... nobody in the terminal.... nobody in
> their hangers.... nobody anywhere. Nobody seems to be saying "Wow, what a
> beautiful day!! Great day for flying or hanging out at the airport!" In
> years past, these type of days would bring out all kinds of people to just
> watch or take a ride around the patch.
> Jim
>
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:3focf.315149$084.6932@attbi_s22...
>
>>Mary and I have noticed a substantial (and depressing) drop off in
>
> personal
>
>>flying of late. Often we are the only plane in the pattern, nowadays.
>>
>>Worse, we've notice far fewer people talking to ATC -- which indicates
>
> that
>
>>this may not be a local phenomenon. On Sunday, for example, we flew 90
>>minutes over to Rantoul, IL, and back, and heard maybe three other planes,
>>the whole way, outside of "working" aircraft. (And one of them was Jim
>>Burns, who was with us!)
>>
>>We *do* tend to fly at "off" times (Sunday afternoons; Wednesdays and
>>Thursdays, mostly) -- but the change we're noticing has been pretty
>
> dramatic
>
>>since gas prices spiked. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many
>>people flying.
>>
>>Anyone else noticing this?
>>--
>>Jay Honeck
>>Iowa City, IA
>>Pathfinder N56993
>>www.AlexisParkInn.com
>>"Your Aviation Destination"
>>
>>
>
>
>
On the other hand last Saturday it was a nice day in the DC area and I
wanted to fly up to New York City. You need to call Potomac approach on
a land line to get a transponder code to fly in the Cadiz. I spent 25
minutes trying to get thru a constant busy signal. I finally gave up
and called the complaint line and got thru to someone who told me they
were very busy and that's why they did not answer.

John

[W P Dixon]

Saturday in Ohio ,
Weather was not great. Very windy and a low ceiling that morning. It was
really supposed to have gotten worse as the day went on. Turned out it
actually cleared up that afternoon but was still pretty windy. Had two Cubs
flying , a Pitts, one glider, and me in the Champ. Not as busy as usual but
busy considering the winds.
Rates went up a few bucks an hour for rental (fuel prices), but still a
great deal.And still a month long wait if you cancel a flight! Maybe where
the cost of flying is reasonable , people fly? Just a grass field with more
traffic than I see at most Municipal Airports.

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>> news:3focf.315149$084.6932@attbi_s22...
>>
>>>Mary and I have noticed a substantial (and depressing) drop off in
>>
>> personal
>>
>>>flying of late. Often we are the only plane in the pattern, nowadays.
>>>
>>>Worse, we've notice far fewer people talking to ATC -- which indicates
>>
>> that
>>
>>>this may not be a local phenomenon. On Sunday, for example, we flew 90
>>>minutes over to Rantoul, IL, and back, and heard maybe three other
>>>planes,
>>>the whole way, outside of "working" aircraft. (And one of them was Jim
>>>Burns, who was with us!)
>>>
>>>We *do* tend to fly at "off" times (Sunday afternoons; Wednesdays and
>>>Thursdays, mostly) -- but the change we're noticing has been pretty
>>
>> dramatic
>>
>>>since gas prices spiked. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many
>>>people flying.
>>>
>>>Anyone else noticing this?
>>>--
>>>Jay Honeck
>>>Iowa City, IA
>>>Pathfinder N56993
>>>www.AlexisParkInn.com
>>>"Your Aviation Destination"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>

[nrp]

The reasons in this thread have been covered. Outdoor weekends here
under the Twin Cities TCA once had the near drone of light aircraft.
Now piston engines are rare & there mostly seems to be only turbine
traffic associated with MSP - even on nice days. At my favorite rural
Wisconsin airport I don't see anywhere near the traffic of say 5 years
ago. Mindless maintenance and medical requirements, TFRs, ridiculous
lawsuits, and now ADIZs continue to expand unabated. My family is not
intererested in flying or even inheriting the 172M I've had for 28
years. Student starts are way down elsewhere. The skies are
disturbingly silent.

[Longworth]

Jay,

I am planning for our return trip to Mena, AR to pick up our newly
painted plane and fly it back to Poughkeepsie, NY this weekend. The
fuel prices at all major stops (controlled tower with ILS approaches
etc) are around $5/gal. This will add $200 or so to fuel cost for this
trip in comparison to the pre-Katrina price of $3/gal. We will have to
divert to smaller airports (a bit out of our route with limited
facilities etc) in order to get 100LL at less than $4/gal. It is no
doubt that higher fuel prices have an impact on GA flying.

Another major factor is weather. Except for last week, the weather
in the Northeast had been awful with low ceiling, rains, etc. The few
days in between with clear skies were extremely windy. This bad
weather dampened all outdoor activities and not just flying. Our
recreational rowing club just had our last row last Saturday in perfect
weather! Weeks (or months) before that, we hardly had any good rowing
opportunities. We entered two boats for the Head of the Fish race in
Saratoga Springs Saturday before last. The women's 8 had only 3
practice sessions together. The mixed 8s rowed together the first time
at the race. It was no surprise that we came in at respectable last
and next to last place ;-) Hey, at least we did not humiliate
ourselves by lagging way behind.

With the recent change in daylight saving time, it gets very dark by
around 6pm. There goes weekday flying for many people. Weekends are
needed for chores such as leave rakings and yard cleaning. In my
neighborhood, it takes the typical homeowner two to three weekends to
clean up the moutain of leaves. It's just so many thngs to do and so
little time on top of so many expenses to meet and so little money.
Pilots are just average folks and no fat cats as you have always stated
;-)

Hai Longworth

[three-eight-hotel]

>> Anyone else noticing this?

Yes! I flew to a popular spot for breakfast this last weekend, where a
usual arrival puts me at number 2 in the pattern, or number 1 and
looking for traffic. Sitting through breakfast and taxiing out to go
home, I'd have to say I saw, maybe three planes land...

I was struck at the time, how quiet it seemed, especially on a
beautiful Saturday morning with very few clouds!

Todd

[.Blueskies.]

In a word...Yes!



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:3focf.315149$084.6932@attbi_s22...
> Mary and I have noticed a substantial (and depressing) drop off in personal flying of late. Often we are the only
> plane in the pattern, nowadays.
>
> Worse, we've notice far fewer people talking to ATC -- which indicates that this may not be a local phenomenon. On
> Sunday, for example, we flew 90 minutes over to Rantoul, IL, and back, and heard maybe three other planes, the whole
> way, outside of "working" aircraft. (And one of them was Jim Burns, who was with us!)
>
> We *do* tend to fly at "off" times (Sunday afternoons; Wednesdays and Thursdays, mostly) -- but the change we're
> noticing has been pretty dramatic since gas prices spiked. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many people
> flying.
>
> Anyone else noticing this?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Mary and I have noticed a substantial (and depressing) drop off in personal
> flying of late. Often we are the only plane in the pattern, nowadays.
>
> Worse, we've notice far fewer people talking to ATC -- which indicates that
> this may not be a local phenomenon. On Sunday, for example, we flew 90
> minutes over to Rantoul, IL, and back, and heard maybe three other planes,
> the whole way, outside of "working" aircraft. (And one of them was Jim
> Burns, who was with us!)
>
> We *do* tend to fly at "off" times (Sunday afternoons; Wednesdays and
> Thursdays, mostly) -- but the change we're noticing has been pretty dramatic
> since gas prices spiked. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many
> people flying.
>
> Anyone else noticing this?

Yes. We're noticed it particularly in our flying club. Five years ago,
the club had 20 members (about 10 were active, I believe) and two
airplanes. We now have one airplane, 10 members, but only four of us
who currently fly the airplane. And the four of us have flown the
airplane only 54 hours total.

Matt

[Jimmy B.]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Mary and I have noticed a substantial (and depressing) drop off in personal
> flying of late. Often we are the only plane in the pattern, nowadays.
>
> Worse, we've notice far fewer people talking to ATC -- which indicates that
> this may not be a local phenomenon. On Sunday, for example, we flew 90
> minutes over to Rantoul, IL, and back, and heard maybe three other planes,
> the whole way, outside of "working" aircraft. (And one of them was Jim
> Burns, who was with us!)
>
> We *do* tend to fly at "off" times (Sunday afternoons; Wednesdays and
> Thursdays, mostly) -- but the change we're noticing has been pretty dramatic
> since gas prices spiked. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many
> people flying.
>
> Anyone else noticing this?
I've noticed the same thing, but it seems to have reversed itself about
2 weeks ago.

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Anyone else noticing this?

Around here, many people are taking advantage of a spell of relatively good
weather to prepare for winter.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Dave]

More flying than ever around here (Fredericton NB, Canada)

One night (doing night circits for currency) there were 11 "movements"
in an 18 minute period.. (not including mine)

REALLY hadda pay atention... (!)

Dave


On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 15:05:35 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>Mary and I have noticed a substantial (and depressing) drop off in personal
>flying of late. Often we are the only plane in the pattern, nowadays.
>
>Worse, we've notice far fewer people talking to ATC -- which indicates that
>this may not be a local phenomenon. On Sunday, for example, we flew 90
>minutes over to Rantoul, IL, and back, and heard maybe three other planes,
>the whole way, outside of "working" aircraft. (And one of them was Jim
>Burns, who was with us!)
>
>We *do* tend to fly at "off" times (Sunday afternoons; Wednesdays and
>Thursdays, mostly) -- but the change we're noticing has been pretty dramatic
>since gas prices spiked. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many
>people flying.
>
>Anyone else noticing this?

[Cub Driver]

On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 12:07:11 -0500, "W P Dixon"
> wrote:

> Rates went up a few bucks an hour for rental (fuel prices), but still a
>great deal.And still a month long wait if you cancel a flight! Maybe where
>the cost of flying is reasonable , people fly? Just a grass field with more
>traffic than I see at most Municipal Airports.

The rate, astonishingly, has remained at $75 for the Cub through all
the gasoline antics, but I reckon the shoe will drop at the turn of
the year. (It was $50/hr when I started nine years ago.)

For the plane I fly, it's not easy to get time the way I fly, which is
to watch the wx and call up the day before or the morning of. But
there's a second, less desirable Cub on the airfield, and that is
almost always available.

For me the limiting factor is weather. I like it sunny and calm, and
that's a rarity in New England, especially in the autumn.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Flyingmonk]

I don't have any details, but someone did fly yesterday here in
Leesburg Airport. Two fatal, inst. and student crashed at end of
runway yesterday. My condolences to their friends and family...

[W P Dixon]

Even with the gas increase the rate is $47.00 for the Champ and Cub where I
fly. Really is a hard to beat price. I'd be flying very cheaply if I could
ever get finished with the training part .;)
Sunny and calm could be a rarity in New England in fall and winter. I
don't mind the winds so much..in a reasonable amount that is. But I'd much
rather have the ceiling higher than what it was Saturday.
I'm just waiting for Jay to open the Sport Pilot Training program at his
Inn. Have a Cub and Champ suite, and a CFI to give a sport pilot course in
the Inn's own Cub/Champ. ;)

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Cub Driver" <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 12:07:11 -0500, "W P Dixon"
> > wrote:
>
>> Rates went up a few bucks an hour for rental (fuel prices), but still a
>>great deal.And still a month long wait if you cancel a flight! Maybe where
>>the cost of flying is reasonable , people fly? Just a grass field with
>>more
>>traffic than I see at most Municipal Airports.
>
> The rate, astonishingly, has remained at $75 for the Cub through all
> the gasoline antics, but I reckon the shoe will drop at the turn of
> the year. (It was $50/hr when I started nine years ago.)
>
> For the plane I fly, it's not easy to get time the way I fly, which is
> to watch the wx and call up the day before or the morning of. But
> there's a second, less desirable Cub on the airfield, and that is
> almost always available.
>
> For me the limiting factor is weather. I like it sunny and calm, and
> that's a rarity in New England, especially in the autumn.
>
>
>
> -- all the best, Dan Ford
>
> email: usenet AT danford DOT net
>
> Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
> Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
> the blog: www.danford.net
> In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Guy Elden Jr]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Mary and I have noticed a substantial (and depressing) drop off in personal
> flying of late. Often we are the only plane in the pattern, nowadays.
>
> ...
>
> Anyone else noticing this?

Not in the flying club I'm in... our 180hp 172 was booked solid this
week. When I checked on Tuesday morning, the first available time was
Sunday at 18:00. I've booked the plane to fly down to Atlanta during
Thanksgiving week, so the club will be getting a 15+ hour "gift" from
me for turkey day. :)

Maybe y'all should move to the Northeast? :)

--
Guy

[Robet Coffey]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Mary and I have noticed a substantial (and depressing) drop off in personal
> flying of late. Often we are the only plane in the pattern, nowadays.
>
> Worse, we've notice far fewer people talking to ATC -- which indicates that
> this may not be a local phenomenon. On Sunday, for example, we flew 90
> minutes over to Rantoul, IL, and back, and heard maybe three other planes,
> the whole way, outside of "working" aircraft. (And one of them was Jim
> Burns, who was with us!)
>
> We *do* tend to fly at "off" times (Sunday afternoons; Wednesdays and
> Thursdays, mostly) -- but the change we're noticing has been pretty dramatic
> since gas prices spiked. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many
> people flying.
>
> Anyone else noticing this?
In the western part of Virginia we have enjoyed an unusually high number
of VFR days, but people are not flying. The last weekend in October I
flew to Hummel Field W75 on the other end of the state and it seemed
fairly busy, but potomac approach was quiet. It was 2 of the best flying
days I've had this year.

[John T]

Robet Coffey wrote:
>
> it seemed fairly busy, but potomac approach was quiet.

I know PCT frequencies are usually jumping on a good flying day, but it can
be hard to gauge traffic levels by frequency congestion. I remember not
long ago talking to PCT when all the voice traffic simply died rather
suddenly. It was a nice day and I was surprised at the sudden silence.
After several minutes of thinking it was surely just a temporary condition,
I queried the controller about it (almost thinking there was a problem with
my equipment), but he responded that there was a line of storms to the West
(that I couldn't see through the haze) that was probably holding everybody
back. Sure enough, a couple miles later he switched me to a different
sector where I heard "normal" traffic levels again.

As for Jay's question, my flying schedule hasn't changed and the traffic
levels over my house seem to be about "normal". Maybe it's just a seasonal
flux or even a temporary lull in Iowa...

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

[Jay Honeck]

> Yes. We're noticed it particularly in our flying club. Five years ago,
> the club had 20 members (about 10 were active, I believe) and two
> airplanes. We now have one airplane, 10 members, but only four of us who
> currently fly the airplane. And the four of us have flown the airplane
> only 54 hours total.

Why so little, Matt? I would think the club format would do well to keep
costs low...?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> As for Jay's question, my flying schedule hasn't changed and the traffic
> levels over my house seem to be about "normal". Maybe it's just a
> seasonal flux or even a temporary lull in Iowa...

I hope so. We continue to fly as often as always -- but I just had dinner
night before last with three other pilots.

NONE of them are current. All are my age or younger.

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[John T]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> I hope so. We continue to fly as often as always -- but I just had
> dinner night before last with three other pilots.
>
> NONE of them are current. All are my age or younger.

How far out of currency are they? The point I'm driving at is there are
many reasons for letting currency lapse (and not just related to fuel price
increases).

For example, I have a friend who got his private and barely maintained
currency due to life/family schedules. Then he got laid off and quit flying
altogether - even after finding another job. Basically, his priorities
changed.

I have another friend of the family who was an instrument rated private, but
ended up letting it all lapse in lieu of ultralights. Again, realignment of
priorities.

Maybe your local pilot population suffered a "reduction in force" due to
airline hiring (hey, it could happen) or maybe they're spending their money
on school (you are in a college town after all).

Hopefully, it's a temporary condition in any case.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

[Paul kgyy]

Fuel costs have, I think, been a big factor. I made a recent trip from
Chicago to Orlando. On SWA it was $135 round trip. In the Arrow, I
figured the fuel cost alone would have been around $600.

[three-eight-hotel]

Good point! I'm certain that has been a factor in the "do I feel like
flying today?" decision making process, for me...

[Robert Coffey]

Paul kgyy wrote:
> Fuel costs have, I think, been a big factor. I made a recent trip from
> Chicago to Orlando. On SWA it was $135 round trip. In the Arrow, I
> figured the fuel cost alone would have been around $600.
>

I personally am not flying as much. If I have a trip i can take the
plane I do, but I did not make any dinner runs to Knoxville DKX this
past summer. 14 GPH in the six for 1.3 round trip = 18.2 @$4.20- 75.00
for a short rib run to Calhouns...I'm loosing my appetite, and I'm a big
feller.

[George Patterson]

W P Dixon wrote:
> Even with the gas increase the rate is $47.00 for the Champ and Cub
> where I fly. Really is a hard to beat price.

Maybe they're using car gas? Prices are down around here to $2.13/gallon. That's
about .15 above pre-Katrina prices.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[W P Dixon]

Nope,
100 LL ! They do not have any other type available on the field. Amazing
since they have the old birds, but they also have 172 , 150 and an Archer .
Guess it's easier to just have one type of fuel. They keep their insurance
rates nile by having renters have their own policies. Maybe it's alot like
the medical industry ...insurance companies keep the prices outrageous?
Places here will not touch a taildragger because of THAT cost. So people
can't fly cheap, and most don't fly. MHO of course! ;)

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech


"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:dHUcf.3189$2R6.560@trndny06...
>W P Dixon wrote:
>> Even with the gas increase the rate is $47.00 for the Champ and Cub where
>> I fly. Really is a hard to beat price.
>
> Maybe they're using car gas? Prices are down around here to $2.13/gallon.
> That's about .15 above pre-Katrina prices.
>
> George Patterson
> Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your
> neighbor.
> It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[john smith]

> I personally am not flying as much. If I have a trip i can take the
> plane I do, but I did not make any dinner runs to Knoxville DKX this
> past summer. 14 GPH in the six for 1.3 round trip = 18.2 @$4.20- 75.00
> for a short rib run to Calhouns...I'm loosing my appetite, and I'm a big
> feller.

Robert, tell us about Calhouns.
What airport? (is DKX downtown?)
Is is walking distance from the airport?
Wet ribs or dry?
How much for a full rack?

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

Some of the best ribs you'll eat. I was also wondering about transportation
to the river front restaurant. I don't think they have a crew/courtesy car
for use, esp.. at night.

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

ps: make SURE the Vols are not playing or forgettaboutit.

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
>
> Robert, tell us about Calhouns.
> What airport? (is DKX downtown?)
> Is is walking distance from the airport?
> Wet ribs or dry?
> How much for a full rack?

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>Yes. We're noticed it particularly in our flying club. Five years ago,
>>the club had 20 members (about 10 were active, I believe) and two
>>airplanes. We now have one airplane, 10 members, but only four of us who
>>currently fly the airplane. And the four of us have flown the airplane
>>only 54 hours total.
>
>
> Why so little, Matt? I would think the club format would do well to keep
> costs low...?

The costs are very reasonable at $56/hour wet plus $90 per month in
dues. Well, we just raised the hourly rate to $66 because of the fuel
costs of late, but still a good deal for a retractable.

I can't speak for the others, but the main reasons for me are distance
to the airport (45 minutes one-way for me) and three kids, a wife, and a
job with a fair amount of travel. The distance to the airport is the
biggest one for me. When I owned my own plane and had it located closer
(25 minutes vs. 45), I was much more inclined to run to the airport when
I had a couple of hours and take a short hop. Also, my plane was at a
non-towered field and I could be in the air literally a couple minutes
after engine start. Even though ELM is a pretty sleepy airport, it
still takes 10-15 minutes to go from engine start to in the air. It
takes time to get the ATIS and call for taxi and then it often is a 5-10
minute taxi to the active. And we have to deal with a slow security
gate to gain access to the hangars, etc. Basically, on a very good day
with no unusual delays, it takes me 60 minutes minimum from my house to
the air. And often it takes closer to 90 minutes. So even a short
flight takes a Saturday morning or a full evening in the summer.

I also flew a fair bit on company busines when I owned my plane as I had
the insurance my employer requires for their GAP (General Aviation
Program). Unfortunately, since 9/11, I can't get the required insurance
($1MM/$500K). The club carries $1MM/$100K and the best non-owner policy
I've found also as the $100K/person limitation. I was flying 25 or more
hours a year on business trips which helped a lot, but I now end up
either driving on these or flying the airlines.


Matt

[George Patterson]

Matt Whiting wrote:

> The distance to the airport is the
> biggest one for me. When I owned my own plane and had it located closer
> (25 minutes vs. 45), I was much more inclined to run to the airport when
> I had a couple of hours and take a short hop.

I also found that to be the case. After I moved from Franklin to Middletown (and
the plane moved from Manville to Old Bridge), my air hours went way down. In my
case, I also found the area down here less attractive to fly over.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Robert Coffey]

john smith wrote:
>>I personally am not flying as much. If I have a trip i can take the
>>plane I do, but I did not make any dinner runs to Knoxville DKX this
>>past summer. 14 GPH in the six for 1.3 round trip = 18.2 @$4.20- 75.00
>>for a short rib run to Calhouns...I'm loosing my appetite, and I'm a big
>>feller.
>
>
> Robert, tell us about Calhouns.
> What airport? (is DKX downtown?)
> Is is walking distance from the airport?
> Wet ribs or dry?
> How much for a full rack?
DKX is downtown island airport on the river. Calhoun's is in the river,
but about a mile west and on the other side. It's not walkable because
you have to go to the bridge to cross over. Knox Air has a toyota ?
courtesy car. Call ahead or you might get stuck using a cab. I'm a dry
fan, but these are some of the best wet ribs around. If memory serves me
right about 12-14 for a full rack. Live entertainment on the deck on
nice weekends. Bring another pilot and get you order for a fresh micro
brewed hefewiesen while they are in the bathroom-they fly home.
A temporary tower operates in Vol game days at dkx as well as a shuttle
to Neyland Stadium, which is walking distance to Calhoun s.

[Jay Honeck]

> I can't speak for the others, but the main reasons for me are distance to
> the airport (45 minutes one-way for me) and three kids, a wife, and a job
> with a fair amount of travel.

Yeah, I hear that a lot.

Interestingly, in the last few days traffic has been sky-high (ouch!) at our
airport, with the pattern stuffed with planes of all types.

Maybe it was just a little lull I was sensing? Dunno...

Today's predicted winds of 40+ knots ought to keep the weekend pilots on the
ground...!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Montblack]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
>Today's predicted winds of 40+ knots ought to keep the weekend pilots on
>the ground...!


Another 'all-nighter' of window rattling wind last night in the Twin Cities.

(ANE) Anoka County-Blaine, MN
Sunday morning:

...........TEMP......WIND....(Gusts 50% higher)
6am.......37........W/23
7am....................W/26
8am.......37........W/23
9am.......39........WNW/24
10am.....39........WNW/31
11am.....41........WNW/34
12pm.....45........WNW/30


Montblack

[Jay Honeck]

> Another 'all-nighter' of window rattling wind last night in the Twin
> Cities.
>
> (ANE) Anoka County-Blaine, MN
> Sunday morning:
>
> ..........TEMP......WIND....(Gusts 50% higher)
> 6am.......37........W/23
> 7am....................W/26
> 8am.......37........W/23
> 9am.......39........WNW/24
> 10am.....39........WNW/31
> 11am.....41........WNW/34
> 12pm.....45........WNW/30

Yeah, did you see the charts today? It looked like a friggin' hurricane in
Minnesota! I don't ever remember seeing isobars so tightly spaced in the
upper midwest.

We stayed firmly on the ground today.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"