This should make most power pilots have kittens...

[Dylan Smith]

Finally, we got a break in the weather this weekend (it's been lousy
here for a while, no flying...)

At our glider club, we can either use the tow plane or the winch to get
the gliders in the air. Not many power pilots have come across the idea
of flinging an aircraft airborne on the best part of a mile of steel
piano wire, but we do this crazy thing. [Power pilots - whenever you see
the glider port symbol on your chart, remember that there may be a winch
there. They are less common in the US than over here, but they are used
in the US, and the 1/8th inch steel cable will not be kind to you if you
run into it. Never directly overfly gliderports below 3000' without
talking to their radio operator].

Anyway, I made a short video of a winch launch at our club. The winch
itself is powered by an inline 6 double overhead cam engine taken from a
4.2 litre Jaguar XJ6. The engine and running gear is mounted on the back
of a truck. It powers a drum of steel cable, and the glider is attached
on the other end. The 4.2L Jag engine has lots of power which results in
spectacular acceleration of the glider.

The video clip is at:
http://www.alioth.net/Video/Winch-launch.mp4 (MPEG-4 format)

(If you don't have the right codec etc. either use QuickTime or download
the excellent free/open source VLC from http://www.videolan.org)

Our next winch will use synthetic rope which is a fraction of the weight
of steel cable (I think the entire run of synthetic rope will only weigh
around 20kg). It will also be powered by an electronic fuel injected Jaguar
V12 engine which came courtesy of last year's hurricane force storm
which collapsed a garage on top of the donor car, completely flattening
the roof and cabin area of the car, but leaving all the running gear
completely intact :-)

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

[Jose]

> [Power pilots - whenever you see
> the glider port symbol on your chart, remember that there may be a winch
> there. They are less common in the US than over here, but they are used
> in the US, and the 1/8th inch steel cable will not be kind to you if you
> run into it. Never directly overfly gliderports below 3000' without
> talking to their radio operator]

How is this cable used, and why would it extend up three thousand feet?

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[RST Engineering]

This cable is attached to the nose of the glider and will remain attached
until the glider pilot pulls the cable release lever. The cable will be
towed aloft with the glider and if the pilot gets off in a thousand feet,
you've still got 4000 feet of cable between glider and ground.

Jim


"Jose" > wrote in message
...
>> [Power pilots - whenever you see
>> the glider port symbol on your chart, remember that there may be a winch
>> there. They are less common in the US than over here, but they are used
>> in the US, and the 1/8th inch steel cable will not be kind to you if you
>> run into it. Never directly overfly gliderports below 3000' without
>> talking to their radio operator]
>
> How is this cable used, and why would it extend up three thousand feet?
>
> Jose
> --
> He who laughs, lasts.
> for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Capt. Geoffry Thorpe]

"Jose" > wrote in message
...
>> [Power pilots - whenever you see
>> the glider port symbol on your chart, remember that there may be a winch
>> there. They are less common in the US than over here, but they are used
>> in the US, and the 1/8th inch steel cable will not be kind to you if you
>> run into it. Never directly overfly gliderports below 3000' without
>> talking to their radio operator]
>
> How is this cable used, and why would it extend up three thousand feet?
>
> Jose
> --
> He who laughs, lasts.
> for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Think of running with a kite to get it up. One of the cable is hooked to
the glider, the other end is at the winch (4 or 5 thousand feet away) which
winds it in at 30 - 60 mph. 20-30 seconds later, the glider is at 2000 feet
or so over the winch and drops the end of the cable.

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

[Jose]

> This cable is attached to the nose of the glider and will remain attached
> until the glider pilot pulls the cable release lever. The cable will be
> towed aloft with the glider and if the pilot gets off in a thousand feet,
> you've still got 4000 feet of cable between glider and ground.

1: Does the other end remain attached to the ground?
2: When does the pilot normally pull the release lever?

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[John T]

Great video!!
I noticed that the skin was kind of beat up around the landing gear and
tow attach. Wheel up grass landing or something?

John

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-11-14, Jose > wrote:
>> [Power pilots - whenever you see
>> the glider port symbol on your chart, remember that there may be a winch
>> there. They are less common in the US than over here, but they are used
>> in the US, and the 1/8th inch steel cable will not be kind to you if you
>> run into it. Never directly overfly gliderports below 3000' without
>> talking to their radio operator]
>
> How is this cable used, and why would it extend up three thousand feet?

The video should explain quite nicely, the cable is very visible
on that. However, normally, without the sunset glinting off the steel,
it's quite invisible until it's too late. The glider pilot may have a
hard time spotting you during the middle stage of the launch since the
glider will be pitched 45 degrees or more nose up.

It's not that the cable will necessarily get to that altitude (but one club
in France has exceeded 3,000 feet on a winch launch, more normally, a
winch launch gets the glider up to between 1,000 and 1,600 feet,
although at our club we've managed a launch of 2,200 ft). Many clubs
also use tow planes, and the tow plane+glider combination (which is
fairly unmanoevrable) generally go up to about that height. Towplanes
may also be doing semi-aerobatic manoevres to get down quickly so they
can go get the next glider - it can be like flies around a cowturd at a
busy gliderport, especially if an event is going on (towplanes, gliders,
winch launches all going on simultaneously).

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

[Don Tuite]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:06:28 -0500, "Capt. Geoffry Thorpe" <The Sea
Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote:

>"Jose" > wrote in message
...
>>> [Power pilots - whenever you see
>>> the glider port symbol on your chart, remember that there may be a winch
>>> there. They are less common in the US than over here, but they are used
>>> in the US, and the 1/8th inch steel cable will not be kind to you if you
>>> run into it. Never directly overfly gliderports below 3000' without
>>> talking to their radio operator]
>>
>> How is this cable used, and why would it extend up three thousand feet?
>>
>> Jose
>> --
>> He who laughs, lasts.
>> for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
>
>Think of running with a kite to get it up. One of the cable is hooked to
>the glider, the other end is at the winch (4 or 5 thousand feet away) which
>winds it in at 30 - 60 mph. 20-30 seconds later, the glider is at 2000 feet
>or so over the winch and drops the end of the cable.

Ok I'm trying to visualize a winch sucking up cable at 88 feet/second
(60 mph) and 2000 feet of cable accelerating toward the ground at 32
ft/sec^2. And I'm thinking of my experience fishing with cheap
bait-casting reels. Does it ever get interesting? Anybody on the
ground ever lose significant body parts? How is the behavior of
synthetic rope going to differ from metal cable?

Don (Not asking snidely, but more in awe.)

[Stefan]

Nice dramaturgy! However, when it comes to winch launch videos, nothing
beats this ever funny documentation of the first trial flight of a
pedestrian.
http://home.balcab.ch/stefan/wetter/Schnupperflug.mpeg

(Caution, 11 MB!)

Stefan

[Sylvain]

Jose wrote:
> How is this cable used, and why would it extend up three thousand feet?

have you played with kites when a kid? a bit the same way, but
using a very powerful engine instead of just running holding
the wire (though that technique, running holding the wire,
can also be used, albeit towing it with a car, done it as
well :-) The thing about the warning the previous poster
mentioned: the glider can be sitting on the ground still, and
a minute or two later, be flying full speed at 3000' (rates
of climb to kill for :-); which could be a surprise to the
unsuspecting power pilot overflying the field already, but
the cable might be even more of a surprise as well...
(seriously, if you have a glider port with a winch in your
vicinity, and you never experienced a winch launch, ask for a
ride!)

--Sylvain

[Sylvain]

Don Tuite wrote:
> Ok I'm trying to visualize a winch sucking up cable at 88 feet/second
> (60 mph) and 2000 feet of cable accelerating toward the ground at 32
> ft/sec^2. And I'm thinking of my experience fishing with cheap
> bait-casting reels. Does it ever get interesting?

you bet. Cable breaks are something quite interesting to start
with (especially if you were tempted to pull to a steep climb
too early -- 45 degrees nose up, no engine, and low, is
what I'd called interesting); that's why it is a part of the
training which is emphasized; I have known of accidents that
involved bad ground handling as well: in a place with a multiple
drums winch: only one cable winched at a time, but multiple
cables can be made ready to increase the rate of launches; the
guy I knew got into trouble when the cable he used got
entangled with another cable laying on the ground...

--Sylvain

[Dale]

I was watching a guy launch his R/C sailplane using a winch.


He got a little aggressive and pulled the wings off. <G>

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:15:01 -0000, Dylan Smith
> wrote in
>::

>At our glider club, we can either use the tow plane or the winch to get
>the gliders in the air. Not many power pilots have come across the idea
>of flinging an aircraft airborne on the best part of a mile of steel
>piano wire, but we do this crazy thing. [Power pilots - whenever you see
>the glider port symbol on your chart, remember that there may be a winch
>there. They are less common in the US than over here, but they are used
>in the US, and the 1/8th inch steel cable will not be kind to you if you
>run into it. Never directly overfly gliderports below 3000' without
>talking to their radio operator].

We (the Southern California Soaring Society) used to auto-tow gliders
off the dry lake north of El Mirage field in the Mojave Desert with a
1,500' wire attached to an old Buick. There was a lot of other sport
activity taking place on the dry lake at the same time, sand-sailors,
motorcycles, gyrocopters, ... One day a fellow and his girlfriend in
an Aircoup ran into the steel tow wire. The wire imbedded itself in
the wing leading edge up to the spar, and broke, fortunately. The
pilot landed on the field, and inspected the damage, then took off.

[Stefan]

Larry Dighera wrote:

> an Aircoup ran into the steel tow wire. The wire imbedded itself in
> the wing leading edge up to the spar, and broke, fortunately. The
> pilot landed on the field, and inspected the damage, then took off.

Ah, they still exist, the real men!

Stefan

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-11-14, Don Tuite > wrote:
> Ok I'm trying to visualize a winch sucking up cable at 88 feet/second
> (60 mph) and 2000 feet of cable accelerating toward the ground at 32
> ft/sec^2. And I'm thinking of my experience fishing with cheap
> bait-casting reels. Does it ever get interesting? Anybody on the
> ground ever lose significant body parts?

Well, there is a small parachute that retards its descent. The cable
doesn't really accelerate much at all when the glider releases - the
speedo on the winch shows about 30mph when we reel it in (but I don't
know what that translates to on cable speed, 30mph would be what the
engine/transmission would be propelling the donor Jaguar XJ6 at!)

It *does* get interesting especially when the cable breaks. Being
pitched up at 45 degrees nose up and perhaps 55 knots indicated and
maybe only 200ft AGL is not a naturally tenable location for a glider
when the power abruptly ceases. It involves a zero-g pushover, then a
dive towards the very terror firma to regain flying speed,
psychologically difficult when all of a sudden you can see every blade
of grass rushing up to smite you.

But generally, so long as you don't 'pole' it too early, you recover
with plenty of time to get your breath back and land. But there have
been incidents where pilots haven't waited for a safe height to pitch
the glider fully up, with a similar outcome to a power plane climbing
out at Vx and losing the motor at 50 feet.

Other interesting things are just with the operation of the winch and
cable. Since we are on a hard surfaced runway (in fairly poor condition)
we use piano wire. A release under tension can create a 'birds nest' -
the wire snarls up on itself, and it's a real bugger to get it
untangled. It's very stiff. Usually we have to resort to cutting the
cable in a couple of strategic places, then tying it (we have tools to
make knots in the cable).

The cable also has a weak link so you don't overstress the glider and
pull the wings off. The Slingsby Swallow, for example, has a different
weak link to the Blanik, being a much lighter ship. Occasionally, a weak
link will get broken when someone gets a bit aggressive on the launch.
There's also a guillotine that chops the cable in case the glider can't
release. Just like pilots are taught a 200-ft turn back to the runway
when being towed by a plane, we also teach launch failures. At sites
with stranded cable or synthetic, the instructor pulls the release
handle on a launch. With piano wire, we simulate it by doing a dive and
a pull up and then the instructor shouts 'BANG!' because when it breaks,
it goes with a bang. (releasing for real on piano wire tends to cause a
birds nest so we avoid it unless we have to!)

> How is the behavior of
> synthetic rope going to differ from metal cable?

It's a fraction of the weight. The synthetic winch cable for our run (we
have about a mile of cable) weighs something like 25kg, wheras the steel
piano wire probably weighs around 80-100kg. The weight saving translates
into a good couple of hundred extra feet on the launch. Trials at other
clubs shows it's longer lasting than steel (although we have to see how
it goes with our hard surfaced runway) and unlike the piano wire we use
now, it won't snarl up.

Of course, when we get the new winch cable, we're moving from the
carburetted, mechanical points and condenser ignition 6 cylinder engine
to an electronic ignition/electronic fuel injection V12 engine too...

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-11-14, T o d d P a t t i s t > wrote:
> Dale > wrote:
>
>>I was watching a guy launch his R/C sailplane using a winch.
>>He got a little aggressive and pulled the wings off. <G>
>
> You might find it interesting to know that the gliders have
> a winching limit to prevent pulling the wings off when a
> human is aboard.

And there's also a weak link on the glider end of the cable in case the
pilot forgets about this limit!

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Dylan Smith > wrote:

> Never directly overfly gliderports below 3000' without
> talking to their radio operator].

I trust that gliders always announce take-offs...

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[vincent p. norris]

>Our next winch....... will also be powered by an electronic fuel injected Jaguar
>V12 engine which came courtesy of last year's hurricane force storm
>which collapsed a garage on top of the donor car, completely flattening
>the roof and cabin area of the car, but leaving all the running gear
>completely intact :-)

A HA! An Ill wind that blew good!

vince norris

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-11-15, Bob Noel > wrote:
>> Never directly overfly gliderports below 3000' without
>> talking to their radio operator].
>
> I trust that gliders always announce take-offs...

More importantly, the ground crew give a good look around the sky before
giving the take up slack signal. The rate of climb is phenomenal - we
don't want to launch if it looks like anyone's about to fly over, it'd
be like the Space Shuttle making a take off call just before blindly
launching into whatever might be overflying the field.

But sometimes mistakes are made, or a plane blends into the sky or... so
really, it's best not to directly overfly the field.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

[Stefan]

Bob Noel wrote:

> I trust that gliders always announce take-offs...

Credo #1 in safty seminars: "Never assume!"

Stefan

[G Farris]

Looked at the nice video, but had no kittens.
Too bad - I love kittens, but gliders don't bring them - for me.

Not a criticism - different people have different aspirations/expectations
from aviation. For my part, I can appreciate the sensual thrill of being high
and riding the wind without the nuisance of a noisy motor, but it just
doesn't do it for me unless you're going somewhere. Gliders just fly and go
nowhere.

"Pilot" means 'navigator'. If you want to navigate you need power.

GF

[Sylvain]

G Farris wrote:
> Gliders just fly and go nowhere.

"Segelfliegen ist Streckenfliegen" one of my bumper stickers
said; seriously, you go places if you do it right, and are
real glad to make it back if you do it really right; meanwhile
you get to meet really interesting people when you drop in
unannounced in the middle of nowhere (though it might not always
be where you intended to go in the first place);

--Sylvain

[BTIZ]

> "Pilot" means 'navigator'. If you want to navigate you need power.
>
> GF

Natural Energy... for glider pilots.. wind and solar energy (power) is
harnessed to go somewhere. Wind is generated by the effects of solar
heating.
BT

[Ray Perino]

You should try a glider flight with an experienced cross-country pilot.
Glider pilots regularly navigate their way for hundreds of kilometres across
all kinds of terrain using (solar powered!) ridge-lifted winds, wave
effects, and thermals. Many popular US and Canadian gliding sites produce
regular flights between 500 and 1000+ kilometres. Give it a try.
Ray
Invermere, BC





"G Farris" > wrote in message
...

>I can appreciate the sensual thrill of being high
> and riding the wind without the nuisance of a noisy motor, but it just
> doesn't do it for me unless you're going somewhere. Gliders just fly and
> go
> nowhere.
>
> "Pilot" means 'navigator'. If you want to navigate you need power.
>
> GF
>

[vincent p. norris]

> Gliders just fly and go nowhere.

About 20 years ago, Karl Striedick flew a sailplane from Williamsport,
PA (IPT) to the vicinity of Nashville, Tennessee, and back, NONSTOP.

Since then, at least two others, including one woman, have done the
same.
>
>"Pilot" means 'navigator'. If you want to navigate you need power.

You can't get from IPT to Nashville and back without doing some
navigating.

vince norris

[RST Engineering]

Please don't feed the trolls, folks.

Jim



"G Farris" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Pilot" means 'navigator'. If you want to navigate you need power.
>
> GF
>

[G Farris]

In article >,
says...
>
>
>G Farris wrote:
>> Gliders just fly and go nowhere.
>
>"Segelfliegen ist Streckenfliegen" one of my bumper stickers
>said; seriously, you go places if you do it right, and are
>real glad to make it back if you do it really right; meanwhile
>you get to meet really interesting people when you drop in
>unannounced in the middle of nowhere (though it might not always
>be where you intended to go in the first place);

Well, just beware of those open, inviting fields up New Hampshire way.
I hear there are some pretty ornery folks up there! If you land in
Skylune's lot you'd better navigate your way out of there before he gets
his gun! ;-)

[G Farris]

In article >,
says...
>
>
>> Gliders just fly and go nowhere.
>
>About 20 years ago, Karl Striedick flew a sailplane from Williamsport,
>PA (IPT) to the vicinity of Nashville, Tennessee, and back, NONSTOP.
>

But that was so exceptional you still remember it 20 years on!;-)
Don't get me wrong - I appreciate the beauty of that, and they would be
justified in feeling a great sense of accomplishment - I'm just saying
that for me, if I always had to land in the same place I took off I would
have given up aviation fairly early on.

GF

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 02:47:13 +0100, G Farris > wrote in
>::

>For my part, I can appreciate the sensual thrill of being high
>and riding the wind without the nuisance of a noisy motor, but it just
>doesn't do it for me unless you're going somewhere. Gliders just fly and go
>nowhere.

Soaring is more of a sport than a means of transportation. However,
you might find a motorglider the best of both worlds:

http://www.stemmewest.com/

The Stemme S10-VT is the World's Best Motorglider

No other powered sailplane design has combined the high
performance of a sailplane with the practicality and convenience
of a power plane. As a result, soaring was finally freed from
local airfields and the requirement for ground handling support,
creating a new class of gliders. Starting from convenient local
airfields in the morning, owners fly under power to optimal
soaring conditions anywhere within several hundred miles, soar all
day, and still have time to return home the same day. The STEMME
propulsion design makes high performance cross country soaring a
convenient form of recreational, competition, record-setting
flights, and just plane fun.


Stemme manufacturer's web site:
http://www.stemme.de/daten/e/index.html

The flights depicted in this video will provide evidence that a Stemme
motorglider is certainly capable of going somewhere:
http://www.stemme.de/daten/e/produkte/s10/video.htm

[[email protected]]

G Farris > wrote:
>Gliders just fly and go nowhere.

You haven't done much research on gliders/soaring, have you? And it
doesn't have to be a motor glider to go somewhere! You need a way to
launch, Mother Nature needs to be cooperating in at least some small
way, and the pilot needs to know how to use what resources are available
up there. It might be more accurate to say that it's more *about flying*
than about going somewhere, though.

[[email protected]]

Hmm, sounds like a typical clueless motorhead.

Then again, if his only gliding experience is at a typical US
commercial operation, twirly-birding around in a 2-33, then it's
understandable!

Nothing a 500k out west in some nice glass wouldn't cure...

Kirk
Glasshole and motorhead, as required...

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-11-16, G Farris > wrote:
> doesn't do it for me unless you're going somewhere. Gliders just fly and go
> nowhere.
>
> "Pilot" means 'navigator'. If you want to navigate you need power.

Ooooh! You've done it now! Especailly as you are so wrong you aren't
even wrong!

Gliders regularly make flights of hundreds of miles. Competitions are
regularly organized where gliders will fly tasks of hundreds of miles as
part of a competition. The last governor of the Isle of Man is an
accomplished glider pilot, and he did three diamond distances (>500km)
in the UK which is quite an accomplishment with the British weather.

Most glider clubs will have pilots who fly a cross country flight every
time they are operating. Navigation is very challenging with gliders -
especially if you choose to do it without a GPS - because like sailing,
not only do you need to be able to figure a course from A to B, but you
must also be able to do that whilst seeking out sources of lift (meaning
your course is rarely a straight line). A bit like how a sailing boats
must tack when they want to go somewhere which isn't straight downwind.

Glider pilots must often be much more superior navigators than power
plane pilots, especially if they want to do navigation 'by hand'.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-11-16, G Farris > wrote:
> justified in feeling a great sense of accomplishment - I'm just saying
> that for me, if I always had to land in the same place I took off I would
> have given up aviation fairly early on.

You don't have to. Even though I'm an inexperienced glider pilot (only
about 50 hours in gliders), I've flown from one airport to another
airport in a glider. Any glider pilot who gets their basic 'Silver'
(that means virtually every glider pilot in Britain with any experience)
has flown from one place and landed at another in a glider.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

[G Farris]

Say what you will - I persist.
Gliders are great, certainly a lot of fun and skill, but transportation they
are not.

The OP suggested some nice glider footage would make motor pilots "have
kittens" from envy I suppose. I enjoyed the video, but had no kittens.

I did not mean to denigrate glider pilots' navigational skills (or any other
skills) and I'm sorry if anyone took it that way. "Navigate" to me, implies
going somewhere, which you have to admit is the exception and not the rule in
glider flying.

People fly for different reasons. If getting somewhere quickly, reliably and
safely is part of why you fly, then I'll bet powered flight is part of your
game.

GF

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-11-16, G Farris > wrote:
> Say what you will - I persist.
> Gliders are great, certainly a lot of fun and skill, but transportation they
> are not.
>
> The OP suggested some nice glider footage would make motor pilots "have
> kittens" from envy I suppose. I enjoyed the video, but had no kittens.

That was me. No, the kittens were the "OMG that's so dangerous!" type.
Aerotow only clubs often think that people who take winch launches have
a few screws loose :-) Most power pilots blanch at the idea of being
pitched up 45 degrees nose up 200 feet off the deck on the end of a long
piece of string :-)

> skills) and I'm sorry if anyone took it that way. "Navigate" to me, implies
> going somewhere, which you have to admit is the exception and not the rule in
> glider flying.

No, not really - most glider pilots (certainly glider pilots who own
their own glider) spend most of their time doing cross country flights.
True, gliders are not a method of practical transportation because you
are even more at the whim of the weather than a VFR only power pilot,
and you really need the support of others to do it (tow pilot or winch
driver/wing walkers etc.) but "going somewhere" is actually the rule
not the exception with most experienced glider pilots.

We don't fly cross country at Andreas mainly because on an island, there
isn't much cross country to fly! However, when we visit clubs in the UK,
virtually all the glider owners fly on cross countries when they come
out to fly.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

[Chris]

"Dylan Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 2005-11-16, G Farris > wrote:
>> Say what you will - I persist.
>> Gliders are great, certainly a lot of fun and skill, but transportation
>> they
>> are not.
>>
>> The OP suggested some nice glider footage would make motor pilots "have
>> kittens" from envy I suppose. I enjoyed the video, but had no kittens.
>
> That was me. No, the kittens were the "OMG that's so dangerous!" type.
> Aerotow only clubs often think that people who take winch launches have
> a few screws loose :-) Most power pilots blanch at the idea of being
> pitched up 45 degrees nose up 200 feet off the deck on the end of a long
> piece of string :-)
>
>> skills) and I'm sorry if anyone took it that way. "Navigate" to me,
>> implies
>> going somewhere, which you have to admit is the exception and not the
>> rule in
>> glider flying.
>
> No, not really - most glider pilots (certainly glider pilots who own
> their own glider) spend most of their time doing cross country flights.
> True, gliders are not a method of practical transportation because you
> are even more at the whim of the weather than a VFR only power pilot,
> and you really need the support of others to do it (tow pilot or winch
> driver/wing walkers etc.) but "going somewhere" is actually the rule
> not the exception with most experienced glider pilots.
>
> We don't fly cross country at Andreas mainly because on an island, there
> isn't much cross country to fly! However, when we visit clubs in the UK,
> virtually all the glider owners fly on cross countries when they come
> out to fly.
>

Dylan,
I agree with you. I began my flying career as a kid on gliders courtesy of
the RAF. We were winch launched either from adapted balloon winches or in
one case an old double decker bus where the drive shaft was connected to the
winch drum after the bus was positioned. That winch used piano wire and if
the tension on the wire ever loosened then there would be one almighty snarl
up which could take hours to sort out. Driving the winches in itself was a
considerable skill and I managed to get checked out on both winches piano
wire and stranded cable by the age of 16. That check out you had to be a
solo pilot, had the training in operating all aspects of the winch including
fixing cable breaks.

The feeling and rush you get as the take of run begins is still one of the
most exhilarating feeling ever. Accelerating from nothing to 50kts in a
couple of seconds is way cool and 35 years later I still enjoy it. Beats any
roller coaster.

As for gliding in general of course it is a sport but its a far more
challenging flying experience that thrashing a powered plane from A to BE.

For challenges in flying, its glider cross country's and instrument
approaches.

To be near God, then its soaring.

When flying really gets like driving a car then its mystery will be over as
it will be as dull as driving a car.

I drive because I have to, I fly because I want to, and I go gliding
because.... its too complex to explain.

[Capt. Geoffry Thorpe]

"G Farris" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Pilot" means 'navigator'. If you want to navigate you need power.
>

I assume you leave the GPS in the car where it belongs?

:-)

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

[G Farris]

In article >,
TheSeaHawkatwowwayd0tcom says...
>
>
>"G Farris" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Pilot" means 'navigator'. If you want to navigate you need power.
>>
>
>I assume you leave the GPS in the car where it belongs?
>
>:-)

Of course! What would I want it for? My G-IVSP has full FMS.

:-)


GF

[vincent p. norris]

>But that was so exceptional you still remember it 20 years on!;-)

I remember it because it set a new distance record, because I happened
to know the pilot, who lives near me, and because it was written up in
National Geographic. But since then, longer flights have become, if
not "commonplace," at least more common.

It's like the fact that most (older) people can remember the names of
at least most of the first seven astronauts, but few can remember any
of the many astronauts' names since then.

I never meant to suggest a glider is the ideal way to go from Portland
Maine to San Diego (although it might be the most fun, if you have the
time); I was just pointing out the error in your statement.

vince norris

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-11-17, G Farris > wrote:
> Of course! What would I want it for? My G-IVSP has full FMS.

That's not flying, that's driving a fancy (and rather expensive) minivan
that happens to be able to get airborne :-)

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net