Big scare story [Archive] - AviationBanter

Leonard Ellis

November 16th 05, 02:07 PM

Scariest moment? In my opinion & experience, anytime the pilot-in-command
feels like a passenger can be a scary time. For me, even including flying
combat assaults during the Vietnam war, the scariest experience since I
earned my Private ASEL ticket in 1967 was on a VOR approach into Tupelo,
Mississippi in our old B model Cessna 172 during a mid-1970s winter.

We were flying from Memphis International to the Army Aviation facility at
Tupelo for an Army National Guard drill weekend (I was then a part-time
medevac pilot flying Hueys). The weather that day was chilly and we
overflew a layer of stratus clouds which began about 10 miles to the
Northwest of Tupelo and extended well to the East of Tupelo. We were
cleared for the approach by Memphis ARTCC and descended into the clouds on
the outbound leg of the procedure turn. Everything was smooth and
uneventful through the turn, the descent to the station crossing altitude,
and the descent to the runway until we reached the minimum descent altitude
when something caused the elevator to bind as I gave input to level the
airplane. That was SCARY! I pulled harder on the yoke and the elevator
"popped free" at about the same moment that my fellow Huey driver who sat in
the co-pilot's seat reported the runway in sight. I maintained attitude,
dropped full flaps to get as much drag into the airstream as possible, and
carried the approach to the runway with power. I did not want to push the
yoke forward for fear it would bind again.

After we landed and parked the airplane, I inspected the elevator to see
what had caused it to bind. I found a bit of ice on the leading edge of the
elevator (anti-servo?) where the fixed stabilizer and the movable elevator
intersect, on both sides of the airplane. On that day I certainly gained
more respect for the potential impact of even seemingly trivial unforecast
and unreported icing potential.

November 16th 05, 02:08 PM

Dallas wrote:
> I was reading some of the older posts of this group and was highly
> entertained by NW_Pilot's carburetor icing thread.
>
> My guess is that all of the high time pilots have at least one "big scare
> story" they might share... How about it, what was your scariest moment?
>
>
>
> Dallas

I'm not high time, but my biggest scare was the time the axle broke on
my quicksilver. The scare actually occurred on the ground after I'd
landed. I noticed the plane was "low riding" during the trip back to the
hangar - when I got out I saw the axle had split right at the middle and
was close to dragging the ground....
On the quicks, the axle is a stress-bearing component of the airframe so
if it collapses the airplane would become uncontrollable...

I didn't even come back to the airport for about a month after that,
much less replace the axle. I eventually did both though and flew the
plane another 150 hours or so before I finally sold it. It's still
flying for the new owner....

But even my engine-out was cake compared to that......

LS
N646F

>

Seth Masia

November 16th 05, 02:25 PM

Fueling a rented 172 and putting 40 gallons into the two 21-gallon tanks.

Seth

"ls" > wrote in message
...
> Dallas wrote:
>> I was reading some of the older posts of this group and was highly
>> entertained by NW_Pilot's carburetor icing thread.
>>
>> My guess is that all of the high time pilots have at least one "big scare
>> story" they might share... How about it, what was your scariest moment?
>>
>>
>>
>> Dallas
>
> I'm not high time, but my biggest scare was the time the axle broke on my
> quicksilver. The scare actually occurred on the ground after I'd landed. I
> noticed the plane was "low riding" during the trip back to the hangar -
> when I got out I saw the axle had split right at the middle and was close
> to dragging the ground....
> On the quicks, the axle is a stress-bearing component of the airframe so
> if it collapses the airplane would become uncontrollable...
>
> I didn't even come back to the airport for about a month after that, much
> less replace the axle. I eventually did both though and flew the plane
> another 150 hours or so before I finally sold it. It's still flying for
> the new owner....
>
> But even my engine-out was cake compared to that......
>
> LS
> N646F
>
>>

Mark T. Dame

November 16th 05, 02:30 PM

David Megginson wrote:

> Dallas wrote:
>
>>I was reading some of the older posts of this group and was highly
>>entertained by NW_Pilot's carburetor icing thread.
>>
>>My guess is that all of the high time pilots have at least one "big scare
>>story" they might share... How about it, what was your scariest moment?
>
> Signing the purchase agreement for my Warrior (which doesn't have a
> toilet, fortunately).

That's why planes with toilets require two pilots.

-m
--
## Mark T. Dame >
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"This message represents the official view of the voices in my head"
-- Bill Cole (wkc at mail-abuse.org)

Paul kgyy

November 16th 05, 02:57 PM

Short on fuel, long way between airports in my Tripacer back in the
1970s. Never forgot, always carry too much now.

Stefan

November 16th 05, 03:25 PM

Dallas wrote:

> How about it, what was your scariest moment?

My scariest moment was when one girlfriend decided she sould stay two
hours longer than planned while the other phoned that she would arrive
two hours earlier. But this was long before I was a pilot. Today, being
a glider pilot, I have neither time nor money for girlfriends.

Stefan

Jay Honeck

November 16th 05, 03:43 PM

> How about it, what was your scariest moment?

In ten years, and 1000 hours of flying, my scariest moment was still
probably during the initial climb-out on my solo flight, when I looked over
at the right seat and saw that it was really vacant. That was a real
"moment of truth" experience for me, when I realized that my short-term
survival was completely up to me and my new-found flying skills.

In many ways, I think I grew up in that moment.

Second scariest would have to be last year, flying out of Titusville, FL.
On initial climbout, the engine started shaking like a hound dog, and I
looked down at the engine analyzer to see that my #2 cylinder was completely
off-line. Luckily, I had 5 other good cylinders, and the plane was still
climbing. I was able to come around and land normally, but that was the
longest pattern of my life.

Third scariest was when I looked over Mary's left shoulder, in the pattern,
and saw a beautiful Stinson ready to T-bone us in mid-air. I grabbed the
yoke and broke right and down, and we missed each other by tens of feet.

Really pretty tame stuff, considering. Thankfully, I might add.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Leonard Ellis

November 16th 05, 04:18 PM

Ah, the near mid-air...

One nice VFR day many years ago while flying the afternoon rush-hour traffic
reporting helicopter (Bell 47) for a radio station in Memphis, Tennessee, we
were flying North along IH-55 about 1 mile west of 18R/36L at Memphis
International. I was talking to the tower on the frequency used for
operations on the southern side of the airport. A cabin-class twin being
flown by a single pilot was making left traffic for runway 27 while talking
to a different controller in the same tower cab on another frequency. In
those days it was common for aircraft approaching from the west (when
landing on 27) to overfly the airline terminal building to avoid aircraft
operating to/from the North-South runways. Both the twin and my helicopter
were assigned the same altitude by the two different controllers. While
scanning for traffic, I found myself looking into the cockpit of the twin
from a distance of no more than 30 feet while its pilot was reaching over to
extend something (flaps or gear, I don't know which).

Scare probably isn't the right word but I certainly felt my heart in my
throat. There was no time for me to do anything to avoid a collision, but
not long after that incident the same tower did the same thing to a Falcon
of Flight Safety and a Cessna 150 a bit farther to the west, their luck
wasn't as good as mine ... 5 people died in that collision.

The lesson here is "don't trust the guys in the tower to protect you from
other traffic in the pattern", they are human too.

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:LsIef.550205$_o.24538@attbi_s71...
>> How about it, what was your scariest moment?
>
> In ten years, and 1000 hours of flying, my scariest moment was still
> probably during the initial climb-out on my solo flight, when I looked
> over at the right seat and saw that it was really vacant. That was a real
> "moment of truth" experience for me, when I realized that my short-term
> survival was completely up to me and my new-found flying skills.
>
> In many ways, I think I grew up in that moment.
>
> Second scariest would have to be last year, flying out of Titusville, FL.
> On initial climbout, the engine started shaking like a hound dog, and I
> looked down at the engine analyzer to see that my #2 cylinder was
> completely off-line. Luckily, I had 5 other good cylinders, and the plane
> was still climbing. I was able to come around and land normally, but that
> was the longest pattern of my life.
>
> Third scariest was when I looked over Mary's left shoulder, in the
> pattern, and saw a beautiful Stinson ready to T-bone us in mid-air. I
> grabbed the yoke and broke right and down, and we missed each other by
> tens of feet.
>
> Really pretty tame stuff, considering. Thankfully, I might add.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

Darkwing

November 16th 05, 05:00 PM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:LsIef.550205$_o.24538@attbi_s71...
>> How about it, what was your scariest moment?
>
> In ten years, and 1000 hours of flying, my scariest moment was still
> probably during the initial climb-out on my solo flight, when I looked
> over at the right seat and saw that it was really vacant. That was a real
> "moment of truth" experience for me, when I realized that my short-term
> survival was completely up to me and my new-found flying skills.
>
> In many ways, I think I grew up in that moment.
>
> Second scariest would have to be last year, flying out of Titusville, FL.
> On initial climbout, the engine started shaking like a hound dog, and I
> looked down at the engine analyzer to see that my #2 cylinder was
> completely off-line. Luckily, I had 5 other good cylinders, and the plane
> was still climbing. I was able to come around and land normally, but that
> was the longest pattern of my life.
>
> Third scariest was when I looked over Mary's left shoulder, in the
> pattern, and saw a beautiful Stinson ready to T-bone us in mid-air. I
> grabbed the yoke and broke right and down, and we missed each other by
> tens of feet.
>
> Really pretty tame stuff, considering. Thankfully, I might add.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

I've had a couple near misses, during climbout I looked over my left
shoulder and seen a Skymaster at our altitude overtaking me in a 172 at
about a 45* angle to my wing and maybe 200 feet away, my only response to my
instructor was HOLY ****! I don't think that guy ever seen us and since he
overtook us we never would have seen him.

Another time enroute I looked down for about 3 seconds looked up seen a
flash of green coming straight at me banked hard right and missed a party
balloon at about 3000 ft AGL!

Had an engine run rough for about 3 seconds during a downleg on a cross
country right after take off, probably could have made the runway but still
my heart fell to the bottom of my shoe. Had another 2 second engine
roughness at altitude during a cross country, had an airport pretty much
below us, still not any fun. All this in brand new 172's with fuel
injection!

-----------------------------------
DW

N93332

November 16th 05, 05:50 PM

"Dallas" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> My guess is that all of the high time pilots have at least one "big scare
> story" they might share... How about it, what was your scariest moment?

Back during my training solo XC, I crossed over an airport on the way back
towards OKC and called traffic. A helicopter took off from that airport and
made position reports at the same altitude and area where I was. I stayed
straight and level because I wasn't sure if he was above or directly below
me. I kept looking around and as we each made position reports and finally
located each other.

Just after purchasing my plane flying a long cross country from southern
Minnesota on our way to McAllen, Texas. Over southern Texas we were flying
at night at 3,500 and saw a twin come under us by about 500 feet from the
right. Just after the twin passed, the engine started running real rough! I
had enough power to barely hold altitude but wasn't sure of the ground
features below. I looked for an airport beacon and saw one about 10 miles
away and headed towards it. Made the airport fine and found one of the spark
plugs had fallen out and was hanging by the spark plug wire. Put the spark
plug back in and continued flight another 20 miles to our destination for
that night. The annual was done just before that XC and the mechanic didn't
torque down that plug.

-Greg B.

gatt

November 16th 05, 06:13 PM

"Seth Masia" > wrote in message

> Fueling a rented 172 and putting 40 gallons into the two 21-gallon tanks.

LOL! Bonus for being short and to the point!

Mine was shooting an instrument approach at Aurora in Oregon when a Bonanza
decided to take off opposing me immediately after I radioed that I was on a
1-mile final. ... my had malfunctioned, he failed to look ahead before
launching. As the Bonanza and I passed I could see light reflecting off the
pilot's sunglasses.

-c

Mortimer Schnerd, RN

November 16th 05, 07:32 PM

gatt wrote:
> Mine was shooting an instrument approach at Aurora in Oregon when a Bonanza
> decided to take off opposing me immediately after I radioed that I was on a
> 1-mile final. ... my had malfunctioned, he failed to look ahead before
> launching. As the Bonanza and I passed I could see light reflecting off the
> pilot's sunglasses.

I had a buddy who wanted me to fly a photographer around for some air to air
pictures of his C-421. I was in a C-210 and we flew in loose formation for a
little while, him on my right while I drifted closer and further, higher and
lower to give the photographer several different angles. Finally he radioed to
me to head for the barn. Remember, he was on my right. I started a standard
rate left turn (the photographer was a nervous flyer).

All of the sudden the windshield FILLED with C-421 ! I mean FILLED ! I stood
my aircraft on a wingtp and pulled hard. I don't know which was faster: my
heartbeat or the speed with which my sphincter slammed shut.

I was quite shaken when we got on the ground. I asked my friend why in the hell
did he turn IN FRONT of me? He apparently was so confident in the superior
performance of his twin over my C-210 he was absolutely certain he could
out-accelerate me around the turn.

It almost rained aluminum that day in South Carolina.

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

Dallas

November 16th 05, 07:35 PM

"Jay Honeck"
> We've got 38 toilets. When one of the third-floor ones erupts, look out
> below!

Ha... I've got rental properties - been there, done that.

Actually, one of your posts here (or articles on your website) originally
got me thinking about this. The one about the pilot or student who just
dropped out of flying because of a "big scare"...

D

Jim Burns

November 16th 05, 09:57 PM

Near miss in a 182 while practicing commercial maneuvers. Cleared the area,
did a chandelle and just as I rolled out nose high and slow, a 172 zoomed by
my window. I could see the pilot looking straight ahead, he never turned
his head. I don't think he ever saw us.

More scariest... mean old nasty cow knocked a co-worker down and proceeded
to grind his face into the barn floor because she thought he was taking her
calf away. He was unconscious, I jumped in to drag him out. Cow continued
to step on him and roll him around as I dragged him by the arm hoping that
she preferred him to me. After several surgeries he recovered from a broken
arm, shoulder, nose, and cheekbone.

Jim

"Dallas" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> I was reading some of the older posts of this group and was highly
> entertained by NW_Pilot's carburetor icing thread.
>
> My guess is that all of the high time pilots have at least one "big scare
> story" they might share... How about it, what was your scariest moment?
>
>
>
> Dallas
>
>

Andrew Gideon

November 16th 05, 10:39 PM

Mark T. Dame wrote:

> That's why planes with toilets require two pilots.

Doesn't that depend upon the location of the toilet?

- Andrew

nrp

November 16th 05, 10:54 PM

Doing a 180 and landing on 9R with a 172H after having an engine
failure taking off 27R at FCM (Flying Cloud Minneapolis) on a bitterly
cold day. I don't think I left the airport boundary & the tower said
the wing tips were within a few feet of the 9R snowbank maneuvering
with full flaps in a near-vertical bank. They were reaching for the
fire button expecting me to cartwheel, but I got it stopped OK.

Accumulated ice crystals in the fuel from the previous user blocked the
gascolator screen. In hindsight I shoulda stuffed it straight in (not
a real friendly area) but I thought I'd at least see how far around I
could get. My passenger never flew with me again.........

I now use a little yellow can Heet in the winter and don't fly in below
zero (F) temps.

Alan

November 16th 05, 10:54 PM

Looks like I'll now always request a third--floor room from you.

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:03:00 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>
>Pikers.
>
>We've got 38 toilets. When one of the third-floor ones erupts, look out
>below!
>
>;-)

tom pettit

November 16th 05, 11:22 PM

I got bit by a gerbil one time.

tom

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> More scariest... mean old nasty cow knocked a co-worker down and
proceeded
> to grind his face into the barn floor because she thought he was taking
> her
> calf away. He was unconscious, I jumped in to drag him out. Cow
> continued
> to step on him and roll him around as I dragged him by the arm hoping that
> she preferred him to me. After several surgeries he recovered from a
> broken
> arm, shoulder, nose, and cheekbone.

Mortimer Schnerd, RN

November 16th 05, 11:53 PM

> I got bit by a gerbil one time.

I won't ask where.

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

Jay Honeck

November 17th 05, 12:43 AM

> I now use a little yellow can Heet in the winter and don't fly in below
> zero (F) temps.

You put alcohol in your fuel?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

nrp

November 17th 05, 01:30 AM

This assumes no gasahol - a separate issue in both our states (MN & IA)

I add a couple of tablespoons full of yellow can (isopropyl) HEET every
now and then when the temps drop below freezing. Pure gasoline will
dissolve a small amount of water that will come out of solution and
freeze as the temperature drops below freezing. It looks like very
light snow but it won't go thru a gascolator screen. Consider that in
the winter, gas is usually colder that it has ever been since it was
made down south. It will be cooled in your airplane even more when it
comes out of the ground tanks at say 45 deg F. Like air, warm gas will
dissolve more water than cold gas. The difference on chilling, shows
as snow. The gascolator provides a way that the very smallest amount
of H2O can interrupt the fuel flow - especially at full throttle.

In my case I took a previously fueled airplane from someone else that
had already flown it an hour on that -20 deg F morning. It probably
had the gascolator fully iced from that flight, but there was enough
fuel flow and reserve in the carb bowl to do a normal run up so away we
innocently went. However there was insufficient fuel flow to sustain
takeoff power & we only got above and a little beyond the end of the
runway when it just faded away over only a couple of seconds.

The FAA wasn't able to explain it at the time except to say that "there
are some things we just don't really know about fuels". I found some
data from Amoco that gave the water solubility in gasolines, cranked
some numbers, blended in enough knowledge of chemistry & meteorology to
be dangerous, and yep, that would explain it.

Another FAA fellow had seen the same thing happen to others but didn't
have a good explanation. We went together and published an article in
the Sport Aviation December 1986 issue. It should be required reading
for anyone flying in colder climates.

In the mean time - BEWARE of fuel that has been severely chilled since
it was last filtered!

Dave

November 17th 05, 01:37 AM

1984, Comanche 250, I in right seat, all 250 went REALLY quiet on
downwind after switching tanks in a circuit.

Switching tanks again got the noise back. We had swung wide in the
circuit for spacing and could NOT make the runway from that position.

Ten loooooong seconds..

Dave

George Patterson

November 17th 05, 01:45 AM

Dallas wrote:

> Ha... I've got rental properties - been there, done that.

I've got a loose contract for repairs to some rentals out in Sea Bright. Two of
them are a steady source of income from this sort of thing.

George Patterson
If a tank is out of ammunition, what you have is a sixty ton portable
radio.

Bob Fry

November 17th 05, 02:13 AM

>>>>> "gatt" == gatt > writes:
>> Fueling a rented 172 and putting 40 gallons into the two
>> 21-gallon tanks.

gatt> LOL! Bonus for being short and to the point!

Which reminds me of the joke about the shortest sci-fi story:

The last man on earth was alone in a room. There was a knock on the
door.

Which someone topped:

The last man on earth was alone in a room. There was a lock on the
door.

Aluckyguess

November 17th 05, 02:20 AM

going to court on the dec 8th because of a rental.
"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:ahRef.44312$Vb.6221@trndny05...
> Dallas wrote:
>
>> Ha... I've got rental properties - been there, done that.
>
> I've got a loose contract for repairs to some rentals out in Sea Bright.
> Two of them are a steady source of income from this sort of thing.
>
> George Patterson
> If a tank is out of ammunition, what you have is a sixty ton portable
> radio.

[email protected]

November 17th 05, 03:10 AM

I was a student pilot, on my first solo. On my third trip around the
pattern I rolled out on
downwind to find myself facing a pair of airplanes - side by side, and
coming straight at
me. I dived (to the left, IIRC), and made a low trip across town. I
never saw the two planes again - they weren't from that airport, nor
were they landing there.

David Johnson

Al Gilson

November 17th 05, 03:54 AM

As a student doing touch and go's on very short final and having the
tower command, "GO AROUND!" I firewalled the throttle and was climbing
out. Then I saw the shadows on the ground below.

Al

Morgans

November 17th 05, 04:52 AM

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote

> I was quite shaken when we got on the ground. I asked my friend why in
the hell
> did he turn IN FRONT of me? He apparently was so confident in the
superior
> performance of his twin over my C-210 he was absolutely certain he could
> out-accelerate me around the turn.

All I can say, is "what a dumbass." That does not seem like something you
should make and "estimate" on. Also, the first rule of formation flying is
to have your wingman in sight, at all times, right?

I'm glad it turned out OK for you, that day. :-)
--
Jim in NC

Morgans

November 17th 05, 04:55 AM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> Third scariest was when I looked over Mary's left shoulder, in the
pattern,
> and saw a beautiful Stinson ready to T-bone us in mid-air. I grabbed the
> yoke and broke right and down, and we missed each other by tens of feet.

Did the Stinson ever see you?
--
Jim in NC

Morgans

November 17th 05, 05:02 AM

"Darkwing" <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote

> Had an engine run rough for about 3 seconds during a downleg on a cross
> country right after take off, probably could have made the runway but
still
> my heart fell to the bottom of my shoe. Had another 2 second engine
> roughness at altitude during a cross country, had an airport pretty much
> below us, still not any fun. All this in brand new 172's with fuel
> injection!

So did you ever figure out what was causing the rough running?
--
Jim in NC

cjcampbell

November 17th 05, 05:02 AM

One of the things about emergencies is that you might not be frightened
while the emergency is in progress. You are so very busy just handling
the plane and everything else that you forget to be scared, too. The
whole idea of training for emergencies is to so make you used to
dealing with them that when an emergency occurs the training just takes
over.

I have flown within a mile of a funnel cloud, lost thousands of feet in
a microburst, flown through embedded thunderstorms, been rolled clear
over at less than 600' AGL by wake turbulence, lost engines to oil
pressure and hail ingestion, had a life raft wrap itself around the
vertical stabilizer, and many other adventures. Hard to say what was
the scariest moment, except that none of them seemed scary until the
next day.

cjcampbell

November 17th 05, 05:06 AM

I take that back. I was once terrified while still in the cockpit.
Flying into Las Vegas once, Las Vegas Approach said, "McCarran Tower
would like you to give them a call when you land. Are you ready to
write down their number?" It was innocuous, but it scared the living
daylights out of me.

Montblack

November 17th 05, 06:22 AM

("nrp" wrote)
[snips fron two different posts]
> I now use a little yellow can Heet in the winter and don't fly in below
> zero (F) temps.

> I add a couple of tablespoons full of yellow can (isopropyl) HEET every
> now and then when the temps drop below freezing.

I was always told to use ONLY the (red) Iso-HEET in my car. This goes back
to the early 80's. Consequently, even though it's usually half the price I
never buy the (yellow) stuff.

http://www.goldeagle.com/heet/products.htm

http://www.goldeagle.com/heet/faqs_heet.asp
(Yellow) ..."HEET contains special additives and methanol."
(Red) ......."Iso-HEET contains isopropanol and a special additive."

Montblack

Dallas

November 17th 05, 06:32 AM

"tom pettit peak org>"
> I got bit by a gerbil one time.

Hey, I'm not laughing... gerbils are the pit-bulls of the rodent world.

:-)

Dallas

Montblack

November 17th 05, 06:34 AM

("Bob Fry" wrote)
> The last man on earth was alone in a room. There was a knock on the door.
>
> Which someone topped:
>
> The last man on earth was alone in a room. There was a lock on the door.

"I wouldn't sleep with you if you were the last man on the planet."

"Honey, If I were the last man on the planet - I wouln't let you in line!"

Montblack
NC-17

Dallas

November 17th 05, 06:49 AM

"nrp"
> the wing tips were within a few feet of the 9R snowbank maneuvering
> with full flaps in a near-vertical bank.

If you are prone to nightmares, don't listen to this mayday call:

http://www.naats.org/docs/flightassist.mp3

Dallas

Dallas

November 17th 05, 06:56 AM

"George Patterson"
> I've got a loose contract for repairs to some rentals out in Sea Bright.
Two of
> them are a steady source of income from this sort of thing.

I thought this rental business venture was going to be like Donald Trump....
turned out to be more like Schneider, the building super from "One Day at a
Time".

:-)

Dallas

Jay Honeck

November 17th 05, 02:55 PM

> I thought this rental business venture was going to be like Donald
> Trump....
> turned out to be more like Schneider, the building super from "One Day at
> a
> Time".

ROTFL!

Yeah, people have this vision of running any kind of rentals -- apartments,
hotels, motels, B&Bs, rooming houses -- as just sitting in a rocking chair,
collecting money. They don't see all the time spent snaking bottles of
shampoo out of toilets, or re-attaching towel bars...

With *our* place, (and this is partially my fault for perpetuating the "Bob
Newhart" myth in a well-known magazine), I'm actually occasionally asked
what I do with "the rest of my time" -- the implication being that SURELY
running this little place isn't a full-time job.

I used to get incensed. Now Mary and I just laugh and laugh, nearly to
tears, leaving the poor inquisitor wondering what they said that was sooooo
funny...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck

November 17th 05, 02:58 PM

>> Third scariest was when I looked over Mary's left shoulder, in the
> pattern,
>> and saw a beautiful Stinson ready to T-bone us in mid-air. I grabbed the
>> yoke and broke right and down, and we missed each other by tens of feet.
>
> Did the Stinson ever see you?

Nope. And that incident is what got be going on an anti-NORDO rant that
carried into this newsgroup for over a month.

Which is how I met Henry Kisor, who was (at that time) very active on this
newsgroup -- and member of the Deaf Pilots Association. Obviously, his
take on the situation permanently changed my attitude toward NORDO flying...
:-)

I wonder what ever happened to Henry? I haven't seen him post here in a
very long time...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck

November 17th 05, 03:00 PM

>I take that back. I was once terrified while still in the cockpit.
> Flying into Las Vegas once, Las Vegas Approach said, "McCarran Tower
> would like you to give them a call when you land. Are you ready to
> write down their number?" It was innocuous, but it scared the living
> daylights out of me.

It's kinda sad when the FAA is scarier than having an engine out!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

nrp

November 17th 05, 03:16 PM

Montblack (and all others)

YOU ARE CORRECT. USE ONLY RED CAN (Isopropyl) HEET,

Sorry about that.

NRP

Gene Seibel

November 17th 05, 03:30 PM

Was coming back to the airport on one of my very early solo flights. I
normally flew during the week but this was a Saturday and the pattern
was full of airplanes. Didn't know how I was going to get in the
pattern and land. Panic set in and my hands actually froze on the
controls. I couldn't release my grip to reach for the mic or throttle.
Definitely a very scary moment. Had to turn away and fly around a while
before I could land. I was calculating how long until I was out of
fuel, because I figured that's when I'd die. I've had plenty of scary
moments in the 29 years and 2700 hours since, but nothing like being
unable to control the airplane.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

Gig 601XL Builder

November 17th 05, 03:38 PM

"cjcampbell" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> I have flown within a mile of a funnel cloud, lost thousands of feet in
> a microburst, flown through embedded thunderstorms, been rolled clear
> over at less than 600' AGL by wake turbulence, lost engines to oil
> pressure and hail ingestion, had a life raft wrap itself around the
> vertical stabilizer, and many other adventures. Hard to say what was
> the scariest moment, except that none of them seemed scary until the
> next day.
>

Clear sky funnel cloud scared the living crap out of me and my instructor
when I was getting my helicopter rating. We were at appx 3000 agl near
Jonesboro AR, very flat country. I was about 10 hours into training on a
perfectly clear late September afternoon. My instructor was a young kid from
Germany who comes over a few months each year to build hours instructing.

We see from what at a distance looked like a long plume of smoke coming from
the ground and then dissipating slightly below our altitude. We go to
investigate. As we got closer I started to realize that it was probably not
smoke because the base of it was moving. It dawned on me what it was and I
immediately turned away from it. After we cleared I told the instructor what
it was and he thought I was nuts and he didn't think the base was moving. I
really couldn't argue the issue to strongly because I'd never heard of a
clear sky tornado. So he took the controls we moved back towards it slowly
and climbed to about 4000 ft. When we cot about a mile away we started
feeling some rough air. when we got about .5 to .75 miles we hit sever
turbulence and the bottom dropped out.

When he regained control we were at 1500 ft.

nrp

November 17th 05, 03:38 PM

A corrected reposting:

This assumes no gasahol - a separate issue in both our states (MN & IA)

I add a couple of tablespoons full of red can (isopropyl) HEET every
now and then when the temps drop below freezing. Pure gasoline will
dissolve a small amount of water that will come out of solution and
freeze as the temperature drops below freezing. It looks like very
light snow but it won't go thru a gascolator screen. Consider that in
the winter, gas is usually colder that it has ever been since it was
made down south. It will be cooled in your airplane even more when it
comes out of the ground tanks at say 45 deg F. Like air, warm gas will
dissolve more water than cold gas. The difference on chilling, shows
as snow. The gascolator provides a way that the very smallest amount
of H2O can interrupt the fuel flow - especially at full throttle.

In my case I took a previously fueled airplane from someone else that
had already flown it an hour on that -20 deg F morning. It probably
had the gascolator fully iced from that flight, but there was enough
fuel flow and reserve in the carb bowl to do a normal run up so away we
innocently went. However there was insufficient fuel flow to sustain
takeoff power & we only got above and a little beyond the end of the
runway when it just faded away over only a couple of seconds.

The FAA wasn't able to explain it at the time except to say that "there
are some things we just don't really know about fuels". I found some
data from Amoco that gave the water solubility in gasolines, cranked
some numbers, blended in enough knowledge of chemistry & meteorology to
be dangerous, and yep, that would explain it.

Another FAA fellow had seen the same thing happen to others but didn't
have a good explanation. We went together and published an article in
the Sport Aviation December 1986 issue. It should be required reading
for anyone flying in colder climates.

In the mean time - BEWARE of fuel that has been severely chilled since
it was last filtered!

Michael 182

November 17th 05, 06:52 PM

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 06:58:22 GMT, "Dallas"
> wrote:
>
>My guess is that all of the high time pilots have at least one "big scare
>story" they might share... How about it, what was your scariest moment?
>

Accumulating ice, very quickly, over mountains in eastern Washington
and Oregon with my wife and two kids in the plane. ATC was very
helpful after I declared an emergency - found a layer between the
clouds and landed for a long, get the shakes out of my system lunch in
Boise.

Michael

Eduardo K.

November 17th 05, 07:13 PM

In article t>,
Dallas > wrote:
>I was reading some of the older posts of this group and was highly
>entertained by NW_Pilot's carburetor icing thread.
>
>My guess is that all of the high time pilots have at least one "big scare
>story" they might share... How about it, what was your scariest moment?
>

Before soloing, after adding a quart of oil to the PA-18, just after takeoff.

I heard myself say: "erm... we have smoke on the cockpit. your plane"

I had left the oil filler cap loose...

--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
| Yo.

nrp

November 17th 05, 07:42 PM

Corrected post:

32. nrp
Nov 16, 4:54 pm show options
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: "nrp" > - Find messages by this author
Date: 16 Nov 2005 14:54:17 -0800
Local: Wed, Nov 16 2005 4:54 pm
Subject: Re: Big scare story
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Remove | Report Abuse

Doing a 180 and landing on 9R with a 172H after having an engine
failure taking off 27R at FCM (Flying Cloud Minneapolis) on a bitterly
cold day. I don't think I left the airport boundary & the tower said
the wing tips were within a few feet of the 9R snowbank maneuvering
with full flaps in a near-vertical bank. They were reaching for the
fire button expecting me to cartwheel, but I got it stopped OK.

Accumulated ice crystals in the fuel from the previous user blocked the
gascolator screen. In hindsight I shoulda stuffed it straight in (not
a real friendly area) but I thought I'd at least see how far around I
could get. My passenger never flew with me again.........

I now use a little RED can Heet in the winter and don't fly in below
zero (F) temps.

Darkwing

November 17th 05, 07:54 PM

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Darkwing" <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote
>
>> Had an engine run rough for about 3 seconds during a downleg on a cross
>> country right after take off, probably could have made the runway but
> still
>> my heart fell to the bottom of my shoe. Had another 2 second engine
>> roughness at altitude during a cross country, had an airport pretty much
>> below us, still not any fun. All this in brand new 172's with fuel
>> injection!
>
> So did you ever figure out what was causing the rough running?
> --
> Jim in NC
>

I personally never did, just squawked it (rental). They had the problem a
couple times in the past but never could isolate it. It's still flying so it
must of been fixed or never caused a problem, I switched to the SP's they
had.

-------------------------------
DW

Jay Honeck

November 17th 05, 10:28 PM

> When he regained control we were at 1500 ft.

Whoa! A "clear air tornado"?

Quite a story. (If it was April 1st, I wouldn't have believed it!)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Gig 601XL Builder

November 17th 05, 10:48 PM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:5u7ff.580371$xm3.76315@attbi_s21...
>> When he regained control we were at 1500 ft.
>
> Whoa! A "clear air tornado"?
>
> Quite a story. (If it was April 1st, I wouldn't have believed it!)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

Surprised the hell out of me as well. I did some research own it years ago
and it seems to be related to a better known clear air micro burst.

Morgans

November 18th 05, 12:45 AM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:5u7ff.580371$xm3.76315@attbi_s21...
> > When he regained control we were at 1500 ft.
>
> Whoa! A "clear air tornado"?
>
> Quite a story. (If it was April 1st, I wouldn't have believed it!)

It sounds like to me that it was a giant dust-devil, caused by a very strong
thermal. I have seen them pick up enough dirt that they looked like a
tornado. I say a video taken at a baseball game, and one at a campground,
that had good sized tents blowing around and around, and other large things
blowing, too.

That is my best guess, as to what he was talking about.
--
Jim in NC

John Gaquin

November 18th 05, 01:16 AM

"Dallas" > wrote in message news:iMAef.1981

>... How about it, what was your scariest moment?

Still waiting for it. Almost 35 years since my first solo; learned in a
172, flew my last flight in a 747-200, and never had a catastrophic failure
of any kind. <yawn.....>

Dave

November 18th 05, 03:52 AM

Ummmm... OK... :) Short story story....

There was a class in college asked to write a short story, using as
few words as possible..

But it had to contain..

1- Religion
2- Sexuality
3- Mystery

The winner,top marks.. :)

"Good God, I'm pregnant. Wonder who did it? "

Dallas

November 18th 05, 06:17 AM

"Jay Honeck"
> They don't see all the time spent snaking bottles of
> shampoo out of toilets, or re-attaching towel bars...

Copy that.

It used to take a long time to get a property cleaned out for the next
tenant, then I learned to just take a leaf blower in there and go crazy.
:-)

Dallas

Dallas

November 18th 05, 06:30 AM

"Gig 601XL Builder"
> > Whoa! A "clear air tornado"?
> Surprised the hell out of me as well. I did some research own it years ago
> and it seems to be related to a better known clear air micro burst.

Just a guess here, but tornados take on the color of the ground they are
crossing over... black topsoil - black tornado, yellow dirt - yellow
tornado, water - white tornado. My guess would be a clear one wouldn't be
on the ground?

Dallas

Matt Barrow

November 18th 05, 06:59 AM

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 06:58:22 GMT, "Dallas"
> wrote:
>
>My guess is that all of the high time pilots have at least one "big scare
>story" they might share... How about it, what was your scariest moment?

Falling asleep over the panhandle of Texas while heading northwest at
12,500. Woke up about 10 minutes short of hitting a 14,000 peak along the
front range of the Rockies in Colorado.

Not only did it give me the shakes, but later I realized it might have been
years before they found the wreckage. My wife would not only be a widow, but
may not have known what happened.

Matt

---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Montblack

November 18th 05, 08:40 AM

("Dave" wrote)
> There was a class in college asked to write a short story, using as
> few words as possible..
>
> But it had to contain..
>
> 1- Religion
> 2- Sexuality
> 3- Mystery
>
> The winner,top marks.. :)

> "Good God, I'm pregnant. Wonder who did it? "

"The Virgin Mary named her child Jesus." ...7 words. I win.

When in doubt, go with ...The Greatest Story Ever Told (1965) <g>

Montblack 'o-o'
"Jesus blows up balloons all day
Sits on the porch swing watching them fly"

Gig 601XL Builder

November 18th 05, 02:36 PM

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:5u7ff.580371$xm3.76315@attbi_s21...
>> > When he regained control we were at 1500 ft.
>>
>> Whoa! A "clear air tornado"?
>>
>> Quite a story. (If it was April 1st, I wouldn't have believed it!)
>
> It sounds like to me that it was a giant dust-devil, caused by a very
> strong
> thermal. I have seen them pick up enough dirt that they looked like a
> tornado. I say a video taken at a baseball game, and one at a campground,
> that had good sized tents blowing around and around, and other large
> things
> blowing, too.
>
> That is my best guess, as to what he was talking about.
> --
> Jim in NC
>

That us exactly as I would describe it. Not something you want to fly to
close to especially in an R22.

Gig 601XL Builder

November 18th 05, 02:38 PM

"Dallas" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Gig 601XL Builder"
>> > Whoa! A "clear air tornado"?
>> Surprised the hell out of me as well. I did some research own it years
>> ago
>> and it seems to be related to a better known clear air micro burst.
>
> Just a guess here, but tornados take on the color of the ground they are
> crossing over... black topsoil - black tornado, yellow dirt - yellow
> tornado, water - white tornado. My guess would be a clear one wouldn't be
> on the ground?
>
>
> Dallas
>
>

The tornado wasn't clear. It was dark. The sky was clear.

Darkwing

November 18th 05, 04:00 PM

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:5u7ff.580371$xm3.76315@attbi_s21...
>> > When he regained control we were at 1500 ft.
>>
>> Whoa! A "clear air tornado"?
>>
>> Quite a story. (If it was April 1st, I wouldn't have believed it!)
>
> It sounds like to me that it was a giant dust-devil, caused by a very
> strong
> thermal. I have seen them pick up enough dirt that they looked like a
> tornado. I say a video taken at a baseball game, and one at a campground,
> that had good sized tents blowing around and around, and other large
> things
> blowing, too.
>
> That is my best guess, as to what he was talking about.
> --
> Jim in NC
>

Check these out!

http://images.google.com/images?q=dust+devil&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images

----------------------------------------
DW

Marty

November 18th 05, 05:19 PM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:hR0ff.579197$xm3.577227@attbi_s21...
> Yeah, people have this vision of running any kind of rentals --
> apartments, hotels, motels, B&Bs, rooming houses -- as just sitting in a
> rocking chair, collecting money. They don't see all the time spent
> snaking bottles of shampoo out of toilets, or re-attaching towel bars...
>
> With *our* place, (and this is partially my fault for perpetuating the
> "Bob Newhart" myth in a well-known magazine), I'm actually occasionally
> asked what I do with "the rest of my time" -- the implication being that
> SURELY running this little place isn't a full-time job.
>
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Gee Jay,
I thought you sat in a chair,collected money while posting here, then bought
AVgas with it! ;-)

Seriously, I tried the rental thing at Lake O' the Ozarks and couldn't stand
it. My hat is off to those that can hack the clients, hours of work &
stress- AND earn a living doing it.

Marty

Ross Richardson

November 18th 05, 06:23 PM

One time driving through southwest Texas I saw a dust devil traveling
across the ground and it looked like the timing would be that it would
cross the road the same time I went buy. A dust devil, that cannot be
much and this will be fun. I was surprised how much energy is in a dust
devil. I wouldn't go near one in a plane.

-------------
Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> "Morgans" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>>news:5u7ff.580371$xm3.76315@attbi_s21...
>>
>>>>When he regained control we were at 1500 ft.
>>>
>>>Whoa! A "clear air tornado"?
>>>
>>>Quite a story. (If it was April 1st, I wouldn't have believed it!)
>>
>>It sounds like to me that it was a giant dust-devil, caused by a very
>>strong
>>thermal. I have seen them pick up enough dirt that they looked like a
>>tornado. I say a video taken at a baseball game, and one at a campground,
>>that had good sized tents blowing around and around, and other large
>>things
>>blowing, too.
>>
>>That is my best guess, as to what he was talking about.
>>--
>>Jim in NC
>>
>
>
> That us exactly as I would describe it. Not something you want to fly to
> close to especially in an R22.
>
>

Morgans

November 19th 05, 12:30 AM

"Ross Richardson" > wrote

> I was surprised how much energy is in a dust
> devil. I wouldn't go near one in a plane.

I had one experience with a dust devil, up close and personal, but it was
nowhere near as intense as the can be, I realize.

I was at a RC field one day, and there was a little break in the flying, and
there were no motors running. We suddenly heard a noise that didn't make
sense. It sounded like rain, very heavy, and nearby. We were all looking
around, and one of us saw the source of the noise. 3 or 4 hundred yards
from us, the tops of some trees looked like they were about to break off.
The trees stopped on the far side, then we saw some tall grass next to the
trees starting to blow around, heading right for us. We all finally
realized what was happening, and it was all hands on deck; we were all
trying to get all (3 or 4 planes each) of the planes held down.

The wind came upon us, and there were paper towels, and plastic bags blowing
around, and lifting up, high into the air. Most of the planes were saved,
but a few did get some damage. I would estimate that there were 60 to 70
MPH winds, for a period of the longest 30 seconds that any of us had ever
experienced.

As quickly as it came, it moved on. There was no bare dirt, so the event
just had a small amount of dirt, leaves and grass blowing around. We
watched a plastic bag lifting into the sky, until it was out of sight.

Strange, indeed!
--
Jim in NC

Morgans

November 19th 05, 12:32 AM

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote

> http://www.byz.org/~aether/bman01/dust-devil.jpg
>
> This one is the closest to what we saw. But it was 2500-3000 ft high and
> darker. The soil it was over was darker so that explains that.

The one I was in was much larger around; perhaps 75 to 100 feet in diameter.
There was not enough dirt to give it a clearly defined form.
--
Jim in NC

Flyingmonk

November 19th 05, 12:49 AM

I had an engine out once in a R22 on my way back from Hagerstown to
Frederick, MD in a round about kind of a way. I full autoed it onto
10+ inches of snow on someones farm near Camp David. My first real
emergency, and I somehow executed a smooth flare that my CFI would
have been really proud of. I never did get it that good w/ the CFI
onboard, and there was never a full down auto. I didn't perceive it
as an emergency at the time, neither did my passenger. He thought
that the first couple of seconds of the auto was a little startling,
but did reallize it was an auto. He thought that it supposed to be
quiet when you land and only wondered why we landed in the field. I
explained to him that the engine went out on its own. He too didn't
reallize the danger at the time. I checked out the engine, started it
up again and it ran smoothly. I concluded that it was carburator
icing. Instead of hiking a couple of miles to the farm house in deep
snow to call the FBO, We took the easy way out. We flew the chopper
back to Frederick, MD. I told Bill at Advanced Helicopters about the
engine out and that I may have oversped the rotors doing the auto. He
said he would have it looked at.

In retrospect, I should have walked to the farm house and had someone
at Advanced Heli with more experience come get the chopper. I was
real stupid to have flown it again that day. Anything could have been
wrong with it. The bearings could have been shot from the overspeed.
I could have been back in the air when it failed.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Flyingmonk

November 19th 05, 12:50 AM

Roger

November 20th 05, 04:40 AM

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:55:09 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> I thought this rental business venture was going to be like Donald
>> Trump....
>> turned out to be more like Schneider, the building super from "One Day at
>> a
>> Time".
>
>ROTFL!
>
>Yeah, people have this vision of running any kind of rentals -- apartments,
>hotels, motels, B&Bs, rooming houses -- as just sitting in a rocking chair,
>collecting money. They don't see all the time spent snaking bottles of
>shampoo out of toilets, or re-attaching towel bars...
>
>With *our* place, (and this is partially my fault for perpetuating the "Bob
>Newhart" myth in a well-known magazine), I'm actually occasionally asked
>what I do with "the rest of my time" -- the implication being that SURELY
>running this little place isn't a full-time job.
>
>I used to get incensed. Now Mary and I just laugh and laugh, nearly to
>tears, leaving the poor inquisitor wondering what they said that was sooooo
>funny...

I'd think the hysterical tone would give it away.<:-))

When I was a kid, my folks would buy up *inexpensive* homes and small
stores. Fix them up and then rent or sell. Even on land contracts it
took a long time to get your money back after spending all summer
working some very long days.

I only have 40 acres left of the "old family farm" and had thought of
selling it. What I get off rent, or share cropping (figures out about
the same) is just about what I'd get per year on a land contract. So
I might just as well keep it.

OTOH *most* successful businesses run by an individual or family take
a lot of work and oft times the business ends up running you instead
of you running it.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>;-)

Roger

November 20th 05, 04:41 AM

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:30:28 -0500, "Mark T. Dame" >
wrote:

>David Megginson wrote:
>
>> Dallas wrote:
>>
>>>I was reading some of the older posts of this group and was highly
>>>entertained by NW_Pilot's carburetor icing thread.
>>>
>>>My guess is that all of the high time pilots have at least one "big scare
>>>story" they might share... How about it, what was your scariest moment?
>>
>> Signing the purchase agreement for my Warrior (which doesn't have a
>> toilet, fortunately).
>
>That's why planes with toilets require two pilots.
>
>
Ever hear of a "Pilot relief tube"?

The toilet comes to visit you.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>-m

Jay Honeck

November 20th 05, 01:53 PM

>I had an engine out once in a R22 on my way back from Hagerstown to
> Frederick, MD in a round about kind of a way. I full autoed it onto
> 10+ inches of snow on someones farm near Camp David.

Since I didn't read about you in the papers, I presume this happened
*before* the no-fly zone around Camp David?

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Henry K.

November 20th 05, 07:49 PM

Right here, Jay!

As I recall it, the upshot of our NORDO donnybrook was that I agreed
that if one has a radio and can use it, it would be stupid not to. And
you agreed that if one can't use a radio, one ought to use one's eyes
religiously. Correct?

Jay Honeck wrote:
> >> Third scariest was when I looked over Mary's left shoulder, in the
> > pattern,
> >> and saw a beautiful Stinson ready to T-bone us in mid-air. I grabbed the
> >> yoke and broke right and down, and we missed each other by tens of feet.
> >
> > Did the Stinson ever see you?
>
> Nope. And that incident is what got be going on an anti-NORDO rant that
> carried into this newsgroup for over a month.
>
> Which is how I met Henry Kisor, who was (at that time) very active on this
> newsgroup -- and member of the Deaf Pilots Association. Obviously, his
> take on the situation permanently changed my attitude toward NORDO flying...
> :-)
>
> I wonder what ever happened to Henry? I haven't seen him post here in a
> very long time...
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Roger

November 20th 05, 10:25 PM

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 06:58:22 GMT, "Dallas"
> wrote:

>I was reading some of the older posts of this group and was highly
>entertained by NW_Pilot's carburetor icing thread.
>
>My guess is that all of the high time pilots have at least one "big scare
>story" they might share... How about it, what was your scariest moment?

Trying to retrieve a "lunch bag" from the "pocket" just forward of the
door on the passenger side of a Cherokee 180 while the passenger is
threatening to go for the distance record on hurling.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>
>
>Dallas
>
Roger

Roger

November 20th 05, 10:26 PM

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:09:20 -0600, Darrel Toepfer
> wrote:

>Roger wrote:
>
>> Ever hear of a "Pilot relief tube"?
>>
>> The toilet comes to visit you.
>
>I read/heard a story once about a Beech. That it seemed to the owner, it
>was the only part that hadn't been repaired or replaced...

Beech 18?

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger

November 20th 05, 10:27 PM

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 06:25:26 -0800, "Seth Masia" >
wrote:

>Fueling a rented 172 and putting 40 gallons into the two 21-gallon tanks.
>
Why would that scare you, unless it was *after* you flew the plane.
Me? I'm paranoid about fuel.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>Seth
>
>"ls" > wrote in message
...
>> Dallas wrote:
>>> I was reading some of the older posts of this group and was highly
>>> entertained by NW_Pilot's carburetor icing thread.
>>>
>>> My guess is that all of the high time pilots have at least one "big scare
>>> story" they might share... How about it, what was your scariest moment?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dallas
>>
>> I'm not high time, but my biggest scare was the time the axle broke on my
>> quicksilver. The scare actually occurred on the ground after I'd landed. I
>> noticed the plane was "low riding" during the trip back to the hangar -
>> when I got out I saw the axle had split right at the middle and was close
>> to dragging the ground....
>> On the quicks, the axle is a stress-bearing component of the airframe so
>> if it collapses the airplane would become uncontrollable...
>>
>> I didn't even come back to the airport for about a month after that, much
>> less replace the axle. I eventually did both though and flew the plane
>> another 150 hours or so before I finally sold it. It's still flying for
>> the new owner....
>>
>> But even my engine-out was cake compared to that......
>>
>> LS
>> N646F
>>
>>>
>

Roger

November 20th 05, 11:12 PM

On 16 Nov 2005 21:06:19 -0800, "cjcampbell"
> wrote:

>I take that back. I was once terrified while still in the cockpit.
>Flying into Las Vegas once, Las Vegas Approach said, "McCarran Tower
>would like you to give them a call when you land. Are you ready to
>write down their number?" It was innocuous, but it scared the living
>daylights out of me.

I've had low flying traffic cross under me when on final so close the
vertical stab went between the nose gear and mains. It was so sudden
that he was gone before either the instructor or I jumped. I landed
on 24 into the wind and discovered a Comanche landing down wind. I
just pointed the old Colt out between the lights. I've had a complete
engine failure on take off, but never once have I gone back with the
"what if" I had been 5mph faster, or lower, or sooner, or later.
Nothing happened and I put the incidents behind me.

When a GMC Jimmy shot out in front of me, I only left about 12 feet of
skid marks. As his roof line disappeared over the top of my windshield
I had a sad feeling and asked if this is all there was going to be,
followed by, Oh, ****, I'll bet this is gonna hurt!. There was a loud
bang (the air bags) then nothing. The next thing was the feeling of
the car spinning and coming to a stop. I couldn't see a thing due to
the dust from the air bags. I wasn't hurt, but I don't think a 6-pack
on an empty stomach could make me that punchy.
I wasn't even sore the next day.

I won't even touch on the things from my "younger days".

I've been there and done that in many of the things that have been
posted with no more than a heightened sense of awareness, but this
would have scared me. <:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Sylvain

November 20th 05, 11:17 PM

Roger wrote:
>>Fueling a rented 172 and putting 40 gallons into the two 21-gallon tanks.
>
> Why would that scare you, unless it was *after* you flew the plane.
> Me? I'm paranoid about fuel.

that would scare me too; I hate the idea of sharing an
aircraft with somehow who would be so careless; what other
stupid thing the same bozo did to the aircraft?

--Sylvain

Roger

November 20th 05, 11:27 PM

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:28:17 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> When he regained control we were at 1500 ft.
>
>Whoa! A "clear air tornado"?

They really aren't a tornado, but for the unwary they might as well
be.

They are often referred to as Dust Devils, or Whirl Winds and are
formed by hot air rising from the surface. Finding severe turbulence
near the top of one (what goes up, must come down) is common.

A true funnel cloud (tornado when the funnel reaches the ground) will
have some very strong winds rushing in near the bottom and sides. The
down rush, falling air, or micro burst will occur near the front of a
storm usually quite some distance from the funnel.

The formation mechanism of the tornado is much more complex as well. I
got caught out in an F-1 as did the neighbors to the south of me. It's
a strange feeling to go through those strong winds to find it suddenly
calm and see the tops coming out of the trees spiraling up into the
clouds. At the same time the neighbor who had been running across
their yard stopped like he had run into a wall.

Even a small tornado or funnel cloud is far more violent than the Dust
Devil, but aircraft really don't want to tangle with either.
>
>Quite a story. (If it was April 1st, I wouldn't have believed it!)

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger

November 20th 05, 11:30 PM

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 06:30:39 GMT, "Dallas"
> wrote:

>
>"Gig 601XL Builder"
>> > Whoa! A "clear air tornado"?
>> Surprised the hell out of me as well. I did some research own it years ago
>> and it seems to be related to a better known clear air micro burst.

>
>Just a guess here, but tornados take on the color of the ground they are
>crossing over... black topsoil - black tornado, yellow dirt - yellow
>tornado, water - white tornado. My guess would be a clear one wouldn't be
>on the ground?
>
There is a clear air vortex, but they are still associated with a
storm.

A tornado on water is a "water spout" and they are dark. Usually the
appear black or blue black just like any other funnel cloud associated
with tornados a;though they may be surrounded by white spray at the
bottom.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>
>Dallas
>

Jay Honeck

November 21st 05, 02:01 AM

> Right here, Jay!
>
> As I recall it, the upshot of our NORDO donnybrook was that I agreed
> that if one has a radio and can use it, it would be stupid not to. And
> you agreed that if one can't use a radio, one ought to use one's eyes
> religiously. Correct?

Bingo, Henry! Glad to see you're back on the 'groups...

Or have you just been posting under a nom de guerre of late?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck

November 21st 05, 02:06 AM

> When a GMC Jimmy shot out in front of me, I only left about 12 feet of
> skid marks. As his roof line disappeared over the top of my windshield
> I had a sad feeling and asked if this is all there was going to be,
> followed by, Oh, ****, I'll bet this is gonna hurt!. There was a loud
> bang (the air bags) then nothing. The next thing was the feeling of
> the car spinning and coming to a stop. I couldn't see a thing due to
> the dust from the air bags. I wasn't hurt, but I don't think a 6-pack
> on an empty stomach could make me that punchy.
> I wasn't even sore the next day.

Ah, modern technology.

In 1975 I had the misfortune of being an un-belted front-seat passenger in a
'72 Dodge Dart (all sharp metal dashboard and pointy things inside) that
went from 40 to zero in about 10 feet. (The oak tree did NOT move.)

No air bag to save me -- just a really hard head. I busted the windshield
with it, hit my neck on the sharp metal-and-plastic dashboard, and -- other
than not being able to swallow for a while, and bleeding like a stuck pig --
I walked away unscathed.

I figure I've been on borrowed time since then.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Roger

November 21st 05, 08:54 PM

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 15:17:21 -0800, Sylvain > wrote:

>Roger wrote:
>>>Fueling a rented 172 and putting 40 gallons into the two 21-gallon tanks.
>>
>> Why would that scare you, unless it was *after* you flew the plane.
>> Me? I'm paranoid about fuel.
>
>that would scare me too; I hate the idea of sharing an
>aircraft with somehow who would be so careless; what other
>stupid thing the same bozo did to the aircraft?

When renting aircraft you never know what the previous pilot may have
done. Most people are far less careful with rental equipment than
they are the things they own.

However, you really need to separate out fuel from other things. There
is a mind set out there which is un-nervingly common that fuel is
related to distance rather than time. Something that is quite
different than the carelessness we normally think of.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>--Sylvain

Tony

November 21st 05, 11:29 PM

Mine scare was fairly tame compared to those posted. Night VOR in IMC
approach to an uncontolled airport in a Mooney Ranger, pulled on the
carb heat and the cable kept coming out of the panel. Later we found
the cable had broken right near the carb.

FWIW, leaning can keep (or at least in this case, kept) enough engine
power to fly the miss, fly 50 miles to an airport with an ILS, and
make a succesful approach. I figured out leaning worked after pulling
and pushing on every other knob in the cockpit. Landing lights didn't
help, cowl flaps, pitch, gear up (manual gear retraction in those
airplanes). I do wonder about blood pressure readings at a time like
that,

Picking up a bunch of ice was a close second, but that was the result
of a stupid decision. Ice = turn around, even if the airport is only 20
miles away.

Tony

November 21st 05, 11:30 PM

Being in a thunderstorm in an M20J was attention getting as well.

Roger

November 21st 05, 11:53 PM

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:06:47 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> When a GMC Jimmy shot out in front of me, I only left about 12 feet of
>> skid marks. As his roof line disappeared over the top of my windshield
>> I had a sad feeling and asked if this is all there was going to be,
>> followed by, Oh, ****, I'll bet this is gonna hurt!. There was a loud
>> bang (the air bags) then nothing. The next thing was the feeling of
>> the car spinning and coming to a stop. I couldn't see a thing due to
>> the dust from the air bags. I wasn't hurt, but I don't think a 6-pack
>> on an empty stomach could make me that punchy.
>> I wasn't even sore the next day.
>
>Ah, modern technology.

You bet! That powder from the air bags sure does burn, but T-boning
that Jimmy at highway speed sure made a believer out of me. What I
can't figure out, is how I made it through two solid lanes of oncoming
traffic. I know I was looking and I couldn't find a spot to go left
although good as it was I don't think that TransAm could have turned
that quick.

It put the firewall right back against the bottom of the dash and the
right front wheel was back into the firewall which was back into the
dash.

I am glad I don't wrap my thumbs around the steering wheel. I had
wrapped it right up against the steering column on both sides and
although not sore the insides of both forearms had a series of little
purple spots from skidding over the wheel.
>
We got the kid out of the SUV and onto the lawn in front of the bank.
The suv was parked in the left turn lane pointed east (5 lane highway
including the left turn lane). Right after we got him out two more
cars hit it. One spun CW and the other CCW. One poor lone car coming
east went right between them without a scratch. The one ended up
backwards in the parking lot driveway where the SUV had emerged. The
other... He took quite a ride. That parking lot is about 10 to 12
feet below the highway. He shot straight out over the parking lot
from the junction of the drive and highway at probably 60 MPH or
faster. I don't know what his suspension was like afterwards. It
certainly had to have been a cleaner when he left that parking lot
compared to when he landed.

>In 1975 I had the misfortune of being an un-belted front-seat passenger in a
>'72 Dodge Dart (all sharp metal dashboard and pointy things inside) that
>went from 40 to zero in about 10 feet. (The oak tree did NOT move.)

Those Oak trees sure are stubborn, but then again Oak is a hard wood.

I had one of the Dodge Shelby's It was the worst car to work on I ever
owned. Everything in the engine compartment was sharp, or long and
pointed.

>
>No air bag to save me -- just a really hard head. I busted the windshield

The impact blew the windshield right out of the TA.

>with it, hit my neck on the sharp metal-and-plastic dashboard, and -- other
>than not being able to swallow for a while, and bleeding like a stuck pig --
>I walked away unscathed.

You must have healed up rather well.

>
>I figure I've been on borrowed time since then.

Or living in an alternate reality. Some times I wonder.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>:-)

Eduardo K.

November 22nd 05, 12:18 AM

In article >,
Roger > wrote:
>
>Or living in an alternate reality. Some times I wonder.
>

I've never hit something hard, but have had lots of near misses... one
of them I remember. I was driving a Mazda MX-6 at around 80mph in a 55 or
less highway (one lane going each direction). It was late at a full
moon night when I saw a dark stop on the road. I narrowly missed a huge cow,
passing inches from a Bus coming in the other direction...

--
Eduardo K. | To put a pipe in byte mode,
http://www.carfun.cl | type PIPE_TYPE_BYTE.
http://e.nn.cl | (from the Visual C++ help file.)

Eduardo K.

November 22nd 05, 12:47 AM

In article >,
Eduardo K. > wrote:
>In article >,
>Roger > wrote:
>>
>>Or living in an alternate reality. Some times I wonder.
>>
>
>I've never hit something hard, but have had lots of near misses... one
>of them I remember. I was driving a Mazda MX-6 at around 80mph in a 55 or
>less highway (one lane going each direction). It was late at a full
>moon night when I saw a dark stop on the road. I narrowly missed a huge cow,
>passing inches from a Bus coming in the other direction...
>

dark spot... I meant :)

--
Eduardo K. | To put a pipe in byte mode,
http://www.carfun.cl | type PIPE_TYPE_BYTE.
http://e.nn.cl | (from the Visual C++ help file.)

[email protected]

November 22nd 05, 01:30 AM

I have seen a number of water spouts, and they were all white to grey.
Never seen a tornado, though.
Dust devils may suck up whatever loose material they pass over (dirt,
grass, etc), and may be invisible if there is nothing to pick up. Once
I saw one that picked up & shredded a wagon load of newspapers that a
paperboy had left in a parking lot (while delivering down a side
street). It scattered the pieces all over the neighborhood.

David Johnson

Bob Noel

November 22nd 05, 01:38 AM

In article >,
Eduardo K. > wrote:

> >moon night when I saw a dark stop on the road. I narrowly missed a huge cow,
> >passing inches from a Bus coming in the other direction...
>
> dark spot... I meant :)

interesting typo. :-)

--
Bob Noel
New NHL? what a joke

Darrel Toepfer

November 22nd 05, 01:16 PM

Roger wrote:

>>> Ever hear of a "Pilot relief tube"?
>>>
>>> The toilet comes to visit you.
>> I read/heard a story once about a Beech. That it seemed to the owner, it
>> was the only part that hadn't been repaired or replaced...
>
> Beech 18?

Baron, not sure which one...

Jay Honeck

November 22nd 05, 01:59 PM

>>I figure I've been on borrowed time since then.
>
> Or living in an alternate reality. Some times I wonder.

Me, too!

Too many "Twilight Zone" episodes as a child will do that to you...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

November 28th 05, 06:03 PM

Not scary, more of a "Fright" story...

Ok, my turn.

I was flying the VOR-A in an old Aztec, in and out of the cumulous in
the approach quadrant. Procedure turn inbound, solid IMC, I broke out of the
clouds for an instant, then back in. 2 miles later, I broke out, a sky diver
went past my left wingtip about 50 feet away, and I went solid again. He was
6' 1", wearing a white jumpsuit with 2 blue stripes down the side, white
beat up helmet. He had a full beard, blue shades, and grubby tennis shoes. 2
days later, I approached one of my instrument students, who is also a sky
diver, and as I approached he said, "Oh Wow, was that you in the Aztec?"
This guy and I had been out flying the same approach a week earlier. He
monitors approach control during the jump run. He knows that the drop zone
is underlying the approach, just inside the procedure turn. He knows about
jumping between cumulous less than a 1/2 mile apart. He is now an instrument
instructor.

Al

Dallas

November 29th 05, 06:50 AM

"Al"
> a sky diver
> went past my left wingtip about 50 feet away,
> He is now an instrument instructor.

An instrument instructor with a death wish... now that is scary!

:-)

Dallas

Gig 601XL Builder

November 29th 05, 02:30 PM

"Dallas" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Al"
>> a sky diver
>> went past my left wingtip about 50 feet away,
>> He is now an instrument instructor.
>
> An instrument instructor with a death wish... now that is scary!
>
> :-)
>
> Dallas

That does sound like it breaks one of the rules of flying, Never fly with
someone braver than you are.

Ben Jackson

November 29th 05, 09:47 PM

On 2005-11-29, Dallas > wrote:
>
> An instrument instructor with a death wish... now that is scary!

I do remember a moment in my instrument training after a long flight,
at night, in actual IMC, being vectored for an approach, completing the
approach briefing, descending to lose a few thousand feet, and ATC asks
me to "reduce speed to 150 knots" for a Cessna ahead. I almost busted
out laughing thinking that I could REALLY use a break right about then
and if I could reduce my workload by reducing to 150kt that would be a
GREAT idea! If only I could make it happen! Then it occured to me that
it must really be killing my CFII sitting next to me to just sit there
and ride along while a green instrument student barely holds it
together... Death wish indeed!

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

Jack

December 12th 05, 04:34 PM

Morgans wrote:

> ...the first rule of formation flying is
> to have your wingman in sight, at all times, right?

Wrong: your LEADER in sight, when you are in close. A looser formation
will allow a wingman to also do some scanning for other traffic,
hazards, threats, opportunities, etc.

The leader occasionally looks at the wingman, if he has nothing better
to do. ;)

Jack

Jack

December 12th 05, 04:37 PM

nrp wrote:

> Doing a 180 and landing on 9R with a 172H after having an engine
> failure taking off 27R at FCM (Flying Cloud Minneapolis) on a bitterly
> cold day. I don't think I left the airport boundary & the tower said
> the wing tips were within a few feet of the 9R snowbank maneuvering
> with full flaps in a near-vertical bank. They were reaching for the
> fire button expecting me to cartwheel, but I got it stopped OK.
>
> Accumulated ice crystals in the fuel from the previous user blocked the
> gascolator screen. In hindsight I shoulda stuffed it straight in (not
> a real friendly area) but I thought I'd at least see how far around I
> could get. My passenger never flew with me again.........
>
> I now use a little RED can Heet in the winter and don't fly in below
> zero (F) temps.

And would you still use FULL FLAPS prior to being established on final,
when altitude was not excessive?

Jack

nrp

December 12th 05, 06:51 PM

My altitude was excessive - I was that close-in doing the teardrop. I
accepted I would probably overrun 9R with the tailwind, but somehow it
didn't happen.

In hindsight, I wonder if maybe I might have been able to nurse it
around the pattern at partial throttle, but there just wasn't time to
do any experimenting.

Jack

December 13th 05, 12:53 AM

nrp wrote:
> My altitude was excessive - I was that close-in doing the teardrop. I
> accepted I would probably overrun 9R with the tailwind, but somehow it
> didn't happen.

I'm glad it worked out for you, and I'm sure that your perspective has
been enhanced by that experience.

I encourage everyone to compare performance charts for your aircraft's
takeoff over a fifty foot obstacle v landing over a fifty foot obstacle,
with and without flaps. That can be very illuminating in trying to get a
mental picture of what to expect when tempted to do a "180" back to the
runway after engine failure on takeoff. A comparison of full flap rates
of descent v takeoff climb rates for the given atmospheric conditions
can also be quite handy to have previously sorted out. When one gets in
the habit of making power-on approaches in light planes, which most do,
the angle and rate of descent of the power-off, full flap approach can
be a surprise. Airspeed control throughout MUST be precise to achieve
the book figures for the configuration used.

A study of the feasibility of turnbacks after engine failure has been
published on the web, and the parameters for success should be well
understood by all of us.

http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/impossible/possible.html

and,

http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/impossible/aiaa1col.pdf

In the sailplane community we actually get to practice this sort of
thing (the "rope-break" on departure, or "pt3" -- premature termination
of the tow) as part of our basic training, and on BFR's. However, I know
of none who teach, demonstrate, and/or practice it in the power
community -- for what most would consider good reasons. Still, there's
nothing like having seen it, or as close a simulation of it as you can
safely manage with an experienced instructor, before you need either to
do it, or to decide not to do it, for real.

In helicopter operations a comparable thing (auto-rotations to a
landing) is a normal part of training. In fixed-wing ops, for those
times when landing straight ahead or within 90 degrees or less of the
runway heading is not a good option, we need to think anew about the
kind of training we are giving and getting. With the ever-increasing
encroachment of development around our established airports, there are
fewer and fewer acceptable alternatives for emergency landings in single
engine operations.

Jack

nrp

December 13th 05, 02:47 AM

I wouldn't recommend anyone to do what I did especially at 400 hrs TT.
I can remember though that the forced landing situation got much better
as I turned left from 270 deg heading. I don't think it was my plan to
do a full 180 until I realized that there was still enough altitude
left for another 90. I was scared of a stall or spin but the airspeed
was there according to the A/S indicator so I just kept coming around
with those barndoor flaps down. The real problem was getting back to
the runway after over correcting.

The real pro in this was the tower controller, who caught my only
transmission ("gotta problemdoinga180"), made someone go around on that
parallel runway, then shut up & watched.

nrp

December 13th 05, 02:48 AM

I wouldn't recommend anyone to do what I did especially at 400 hrs TT.
I can remember though that the forced landing situation got much better
as I turned left from 270 deg heading. I don't think it was my plan to
do a full 180 until I realized that there was still enough altitude
left for another 90. I was scared of a stall or spin but the airspeed
was there according to the A/S indicator so I just kept coming around
with those b ig barndoor flaps down. The real problem was getting back
to the runway after over correcting.

The real pro in this was the tower controller, who caught my initial
transmission (gotta problemdoinga180), made someone go around on that
parallel runway, then shut up & watched.