Ease of attaching and detaching

[Mika Koski]

Hi,

the sailplanes below are from www.segelflug.de and ones you can buy
with a (relatively) small amount of money, but they still are suitable
for crosscountry (L/D >= 35). The only plane among these I'm familiar
with is LS 4 controls-non-automatic-version so it will be kind of
benchmark for other planes.

Now I'm considering to buy one of listed planes for myself and for many
reasons my future plane will not be hangared, but kept in a trailer
when it is not used. From attaching and detaching* point of view, which
one would be optimal plane "to be taken out of the trailer in the
mornign and put back in the evening" usage?

ASW20
LS 3 & 4
Speed Astir II
DG-300
JANTAR
Std. Cirrus
Mistral C

If there is easy to attach/detach plane, which is not in the list and
you can buy it with less than 25000 EUR, please let me know.

Regards,

Mika Koski
Finland

* What is the right word in "soaring english" to be used for this?

[[email protected]]

LS4 is easy, even without automatic hookups - the LS sleeves make the
manual hookup of the ailerons and brakes quick and easy to check.

But that doesn't mean they can't be hooked up wrong! - I've managed to
incorrectly hook up a spoiler on an LS4-a, found by the positive check.
Oops...

LS4 wings are a bit heavy, but that builds character - and provides for
a nice fast redline!

Kirk
LS6-b "66"

[Mel Dawson]

At 21:30 17 November 2005, Mika Koski wrote:
>Hi,
>
>the sailplanes below are from www.segelflug.de and
>ones you can buy
>with a (relatively) small amount of money, but they
>still are suitable
>for crosscountry (L/D >= 35). The only plane among these
>>I'm familiar
>with is LS 4 controls-non-automatic-version so it will
>be kind of
>benchmark for other planes.
>
>Now I'm considering to buy one of listed planes for
>myself and for many
>reasons my future plane will not be hangared, but kept
>in a trailer
>when it is not used. From attaching and detaching*
>point of view, which
>one would be optimal plane 'to be taken out of the
>trailer in the
>mornign and put back in the evening' usage?
>
>ASW20
>LS 3 & 4
>Speed Astir II
>DG-300
>JANTAR
>Std. Cirrus
>Mistral C
>
>If there is easy to attach/detach plane, which is not
>in the list and
>you can buy it with less than 25000 EUR, please let
>me know.
>
>Regards,
>
>Mika Koski
>Finland
>
>* What is the right word in 'soaring english' to be
>used for this?
>All modern gliders are 'easy' to rigg and de-rigg *
>don't let this be a deciding factor.
>

[Shawn]

Mika Koski wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the sailplanes below are from www.segelflug.de and ones you can buy
> with a (relatively) small amount of money, but they still are suitable
> for crosscountry (L/D >= 35). The only plane among these I'm familiar
> with is LS 4 controls-non-automatic-version so it will be kind of
> benchmark for other planes.
>
> Now I'm considering to buy one of listed planes for myself and for many
> reasons my future plane will not be hangared, but kept in a trailer
> when it is not used. From attaching and detaching* point of view, which
> one would be optimal plane "to be taken out of the trailer in the
> mornign and put back in the evening" usage?
>
> ASW20
> LS 3 & 4
> Speed Astir II
> DG-300
> JANTAR
> Std. Cirrus
> Mistral C
>
> If there is easy to attach/detach plane, which is not in the list and
> you can buy it with less than 25000 EUR, please let me know.

Mosquito (Glasflugal 303). All the control connections are automatic.
The wing has a single pin and it goes together very easily.
Flys nicely too!

Shawn

[[email protected]]

I've flown an LS-4 for the past four years. The hook-up is easy and
with collars that screw over the connection, is very difficult (but not
impossible) to attach incorrectly. I've learned to check the connection
by feeling the hole at the bottom of the control connection joint with
my finger. If the hole is a half-round, the connection is secure; if
you feel a completely round hole, the connection has not been made
correctly and you should start over. Rolladen-Schneider provides
mirrors to check the connections visually, but in my experience they
are useless.

Once you get used to rigging the glider, the whole process can be
accomplished in less than 15 minutes.

The LS-4 is also easy to fly and wonderfully forgiving of pilot errors
-- a good ship to begin with.

Matt

[Ray Lovinggood]

Mika,

I will repeat the message from Todd: It depends on
the trailer! All the difference is, mostly, in the
trailer! If the trailer is 'home built', it can be
good or bad, just depends on how it is set up. The
same is true for a factory trailer. Typically, the
factory trailers such as Cobra or Komet make assembly
and disassembly VERY easy.

All of your gliders on your list should be easy to
rig with a good trailer.

And also as mentioned, the 303 Mosquito has auto connections.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

At 21:30 17 November 2005, Mika Koski wrote:
>Hi,
>
>the sailplanes below are from www.segelflug.de and
>ones you can buy
>with a (relatively) small amount of money, but they
>still are suitable
>for crosscountry (L/D >= 35). The only plane among these
>>I'm familiar
>with is LS 4 controls-non-automatic-version so it will
>be kind of
>benchmark for other planes.
>
>Now I'm considering to buy one of listed planes for
>myself and for many
>reasons my future plane will not be hangared, but kept
>in a trailer
>when it is not used. From attaching and detaching*
>point of view, which
>one would be optimal plane 'to be taken out of the
>trailer in the
>mornign and put back in the evening' usage?
>
>ASW20
>LS 3 & 4
>Speed Astir II
>DG-300
>JANTAR
>Std. Cirrus
>Mistral C
>
>If there is easy to attach/detach plane, which is not
>in the list and
>you can buy it with less than 25000 EUR, please let
>me know.
>
>Regards,
>
>Mika Koski
>Finland
>
>* What is the right word in 'soaring english' to be
>used for this?
>
>

[Greg Arnold]

Andy wrote:
> The words I use are "rig" and "derig". From personal experience, and
> observation of others, I'd say that gliders with spar tip pins that
> mate in the other wing root are harder to rig than gliders that use 2
> load bearing main spar pins.

Interesting. My experience has been just the opposite. It may be
initially easier to insert wings that take two pins, but you still have
to get everything lined up so you can insert the pins. By contrast, my
Discus slips right together (most of the time), and then all you have to
do is insert the one pin. It helps that the opening in the fuselage on
the spar tip side has a relatively small opening, so if you hit this
hole the spar tip pin should slip right into the other wing.


Other actors are wing weight, quality of
> rigging aids, your experience, and the experience of your helper if you
> use one.
>
> You can learn to rig any glider and I don't think this should be a
> major factor in making a selection.
>
> Andy
>

[hannu]

"Mika Koski" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi,
>
> ASW20
> LS 3 & 4
> Speed Astir II
> DG-300
> JANTAR
> Std. Cirrus
> Mistral C
>
> If there is easy to attach/detach plane, which is not in the list and
> you can buy it with less than 25000 EUR, please let me know.

Hello Mika

Because this is an international group, let's keep this in English ;)

One glider maybe just in the price range might be SZD-55. It also has
automatic connections, the only remarkable thing in rigging is the tail main
pin security.

It's one of the most bang for buck (or euro).gliders.

Regarding rigging/de-rigging I wouldn't recommend Astir - flown one for
maaaaany years with too many outlandings ;)

regards

Hannu (currently flying SZD-55 "57")

[Kevin Brooker]

As said several times before, the trailer is everything for ease of
rig/de-rig. I've rigged the same model glider from differant trailers
and the effort required varied quite a lot. Any glider on your list is
fine; find the best set up trailer and buy that and take whatever is
inside. Great trailer set-ups make flying fun. A trailer that makes
you dread rigging/derigging will have you second guessing if you want
to risk using a crappy trailer in a field in the middle of the night.
Rig/derig on a gliderport is orders of magnitude differant then during
an off field landing. Putting the wings on is easy; getting the ship
safely in and out of the box is the real rub. Buy the trailer. Great
trailers make flying fun and will enhance the experiance. A good
trailer also makes it easier to find help rigging since the process
will be faster. You can fiddle w/ pins and such after the wings are on
and you've dismissed the help. FWIW, the LS-4 almost assembles itself;
if there is a good trailer.










On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:30:12 +0200, "hannu" > wrote:

>
>"Mika Koski" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> ASW20
>> LS 3 & 4
>> Speed Astir II
>> DG-300
>> JANTAR
>> Std. Cirrus
>> Mistral C
>>
>> If there is easy to attach/detach plane, which is not in the list and
>> you can buy it with less than 25000 EUR, please let me know.
>
>Hello Mika
>
>Because this is an international group, let's keep this in English ;)
>
>One glider maybe just in the price range might be SZD-55. It also has
>automatic connections, the only remarkable thing in rigging is the tail main
>pin security.
>
>It's one of the most bang for buck (or euro).gliders.
>
>Regarding rigging/de-rigging I wouldn't recommend Astir - flown one for
>maaaaany years with too many outlandings ;)
>
>regards
>
>Hannu (currently flying SZD-55 "57")
>

[Marc Ramsey]

Martin Gregorie wrote:
> - Wiedekind sleeves on the Hoteliers. Important on an ASW-19,
> Pegase-101, ASW-20 because the hole in the fuselage is small. With the
> sleeves the Hoteliers connect first time every time and can't detach.

In my opinion, stay away from Wiedekind sleeves, unless they are
required by the certification. I know two people who were very
seriously injured, and one who was killed, because a Hotelier connection
with a Wiedekind sleeve was thought to be properly connected, when it
was not. In each of these cases, a control check was apparently
performed, but it appears insufficient force was applied to cause it to
disconnect. The ball can get hung up inside the sleeve without being
fully inside the socket, the sleeve will partially, but not completely,
close under those circumstances. If you can't see it (or don't know
what to look for), you may miss it.

I hate fiddling with safety pins, but you can't get the pin in if the
ball isn't completely inside the socket. I've had no problem seeing
enough to get the pins in on ASW-19s, 20s, and Pegases, despite the
small openings...

Marc

[Tony Verhulst]

> In my opinion, stay away from Wiedekind sleeves, unless they are
> required by the certification. I know two people who were very
> seriously injured, and one who was killed, because a Hotelier connection
> with a Wiedekind sleeve was thought to be properly connected, when it
> was not.

I once partially connected the right spoiler on my LS6. I saw it
immediately when I pushed the glider away from the trailer but decided
to fix it in the staging area. Of course, as I passed the "reviewing
stand", people saw one partially deployed spoiler and everybody started
jumping up and down and pointing and yelling. "Yeah, I know, I know".

The good part was that Dave Nadler was there and he suggested something
that I've followed religeously since - When you attach the Hotelier
connector, try pulling the connection apart. If you are satisfied, only
then roll the sleeve over the connector.

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"

[01-- Zero One]

"Tony Verhulst" > wrote in message
:

> > In my opinion, stay away from Wiedekind sleeves, unless they are
> > required by the certification. I know two people who were very
> > seriously injured, and one who was killed, because a Hotelier connection
> > with a Wiedekind sleeve was thought to be properly connected, when it
> > was not.
>
> I once partially connected the right spoiler on my LS6. I saw it
> immediately when I pushed the glider away from the trailer but decided
> to fix it in the staging area. Of course, as I passed the "reviewing
> stand", people saw one partially deployed spoiler and everybody started
> jumping up and down and pointing and yelling. "Yeah, I know, I know".
>
> The good part was that Dave Nadler was there and he suggested something
> that I've followed religeously since - When you attach the Hotelier
> connector, try pulling the connection apart. If you are satisfied, only
> then roll the sleeve over the connector.
>
> Tony V. LS6-b "6N"





Yep, good idea. I always operate the controls while trying to pull the
hotellier apart. And I have had a couple of times when it came loose in
my hand!



Larry

"01" USA