Whatever happened to...

[Ian Johnston]

I was just reflecting on the Bright Hopes for the future of soaring
which have appeared here in the past. What became of ...

* the American Spirit / Eagle?

* the Genesis?

* the PW-5 / PW-6?

I know a fair few PW-5's were made, but did it ever come close to the
thousands predicted? Are they still in production?

Ian
--

[stephanevdv]

PW-5 and PW-6 production by PZL Swidnik has been transferred in June
2005 to ZS Jezow (also known as "The glider factory"). This is the
old Grünau factory where Edmund Schneider produced the SG-38 and
Grünau Baby before and during WWII. The former German town Grünau is
now Polish and is called Jezow Sudecki. ZS Jezow is a former part of
the PZL conglomerate, and specialised until now in the maintenance and
repair of PZL gliders.

http://www.szdjezow.com.pl/index1_eng.html

[Andy]

I think the American Spirits are waiting for their owners to save money
for gas for the chain saw. I know someone that started one but I never
heard he flew it. Did any ever fly?

Andy

[[email protected]]

Only got my license two years ago and the PWs I've seen up close and
read all about but the American Spirit? Is that a new brand of Bourbon
I missed??

[Tony Verhulst]

Andy wrote:
> I think the American Spirits are waiting for their owners to save money
> for gas for the chain saw. I know someone that started one but I never
> heard he flew it. Did any ever fly?

I saw an American Spirit at the Franconia NH, USA airport a bunch of
years ago. I chatted briefly with the owner/builder. It flew.

Tony V

[David R.]

One flies a few times each year in Boulder - seems to be an OK glider.

dave r. (who would never fly something I built!)

"Tony Verhulst" > wrote in message
. ..
> Andy wrote:
>> I think the American Spirits are waiting for their owners to save money
>> for gas for the chain saw. I know someone that started one but I never
>> heard he flew it. Did any ever fly?
>
> I saw an American Spirit at the Franconia NH, USA airport a bunch of years
> ago. I chatted briefly with the owner/builder. It flew.
>
> Tony V

[Frank Whiteley]

A few American Spirits and Falcons were completed and flying. None
have failed in flight, though one or two failed under static load. A
couple of solutions to this have been cooked. Two kits have been
donated to the Collegiate Soaring Association to date. One found its
way to Penn State for the glider design program. A second went to
Mississippi State Raspet Flight Research Laboratory for similar study
and design experience. IIRC, a PW-5 and a PW-6 were gifted to MSUGC by
alumnus Dick Johnson.

A Genesis 2 was donated to the SW Soaring Museum by Jerry Mercer.
Another hangs in the National Soaring Museum. I presume the remainder
continue to fly and with the fillet change, fly very well. There's one
for sale in Canada at the moment. It's listed under 'old projects' on
the LAK web site.

Frank Whiteley

[Andy]

Ask Prokes! He'll tell you the whole sad story.

[Chuck Griswold]

At 04:42 20 November 2005, Frank Whiteley wrote:
>A few American Spirits and Falcons were completed and
>flying. None
>have failed in flight, though one or two failed under
>static load. A
>couple of solutions to this have been cooked. Two
>kits have been
>donated to the Collegiate Soaring Association to date.
> One found its
>way to Penn State for the glider design program. A
>second went to
>Mississippi State Raspet Flight Research Laboratory
>for similar study
>and design experience. IIRC, a PW-5 and a PW-6 were
>gifted to
MSUGC by
>alumnus Dick Johnson.

>
>A Genesis 2 was donated to the SW Soaring Museum by
>Jerry Mercer.
>Another hangs in the National Soaring Museum. I presume
>the
remainder
>continue to fly and with the fillet change, fly very
>well. There's one
>for sale in Canada at the moment. It's listed under
>'old projects' on
>the LAK web site.
>
>Frank Whiteley


No sense in beating a dead horse. Once again I have
the dubious
distinction of being one of the first to own a American
Sprit kit. I lived
less than 10 miles from the factory and knew the owner
of the factory
well enough to never want to fly the one that I bought.
I did fly the
factory built Sprit, it flew well except for the loud
cracking noise when I
pulled up in a thermal. Maybe it was me but I could
never get the
factory owner to admit that there was a problem. I
have been over to
the factory since and they are building hatch covers
for submarines. I
sold the kit for a dollar and hope the gentleman that
bought it found the
chain saw to cut it up before it fell on some one.
Chuck

[[email protected]]

Chuck's comments on the American Spirit glider bring to mind the phrase
I use when someone asks me about such gliders; Fly one? I wouldn't walk
under one!

Robert Mudd

[Bob Johnson]

wrote:
> Chuck's comments on the American Spirit glider bring to mind the phrase
> I use when someone asks me about such gliders; Fly one? I wouldn't walk
> under one!
>
> Robert Mudd
>
Isn't this the ship whose molds were pulled off of a Ventus?

Bob Johnson

[John]

Anyone have a picture of one of these (American Spirit)? A google
search yielded nothing...


wrote:
> Yes.
> But the internals of the kits were no where near the quality of an
> Schemmp-Hirth glider.
>
> Robert Mudd

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, John wrote:

> Anyone have a picture of one of these (American Spirit)? A google
> search yielded nothing...

I use Dogpile. It found this Free Flight issue, with article and
pictures:

www.wgc.mb.ca/sac/freeflight/93_05.pdf

If the pictures don't show, just imagine that you're looking at a
first-year Ventus.

Bob K.

[[email protected]]

I read that in Poland the PW-5 had been approved for flights up to
11,000 meters? Anyone have any idea how this bird flies in high
winds/high altitude?

[For Example John Smith]

Thanks to RAS, I no longer need a calendar.
When the PW-5 troll comes out, it must be winter in the Northern Hemisphere

"Ian Johnston" > wrote in message
news:dzZo7CxomoOm-pn2-BbTHJvIz8nks@localhost...
>I was just reflecting on the Bright Hopes for the future of soaring
> which have appeared here in the past. What became of ...
>
> * the American Spirit / Eagle?
>
> * the Genesis?
>
> * the PW-5 / PW-6?
>
> I know a fair few PW-5's were made, but did it ever come close to the
> thousands predicted? Are they still in production?
>
> Ian
> --
>

[For Example John Smith]

I haven't flown it at high altitudes, but in high winds it flies backwards.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I read that in Poland the PW-5 had been approved for flights up to
> 11,000 meters? Anyone have any idea how this bird flies in high
> winds/high altitude?
>

[Charles Yeates]

So do all sailplanes ---

For Example John Smith wrote:
> I haven't flown it at high altitudes, but in high winds it flies backwards.
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>I read that in Poland the PW-5 had been approved for flights up to
>>11,000 meters? Anyone have any idea how this bird flies in high
>>winds/high altitude?
>>
>
>

[Chuck Griswold]

At 16:12 21 November 2005, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>Earlier, John wrote:
>
>> Anyone have a picture of one of these (American Spirit)?
>>A google
>> search yielded nothing...
>
>I use Dogpile. It found this Free Flight issue, with
>article and
>pictures:
>
>www.wgc.mb.ca/sac/freeflight/93_05.pdf
>
>If the pictures don't show, just imagine that you're
>looking at a
>first-year Ventus.
>
>Bob K.
>
Yep Bob
Ya gota scroll way down. That's Tor flying and I'll
bet Andy wishes
he never wrote that article.
Chuck

[Eric Greenwell]

wrote:
> I read that in Poland the PW-5 had been approved for flights up to
> 11,000 meters? Anyone have any idea how this bird flies in high
> winds/high altitude?

Given the typical winds (20 to 60 knots) in Washington state at altitude
in a wave conditions, it should do fine. I flew my Ka-6e in wave in
Oregon and Washington number of times during the two years I had it. 60
knot wind at 18,000' is only an IAS of 45 knots.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Papa3]

Speaking of "whatever happened to"... I recall seeing an article in
S&G a number of years back about a ship designed in the UK for simple,
low cost construction using a "new" laminate or honeycomb material.
IIRC, it looked similar to the old Duster design from the US. I think
I saw it featured on the cover of a book not long ago (Green glider
against bucolic green landscape). Curious to hear whether it ever went
into any sort of production. .

Erik Mann
LS8-18 (P3)

[Stanford Korwin]

At 15:06 22 November 2005, Papa3 wrote:
>Speaking of 'whatever happened to'... I recall seeing
>an article in
>S&G a number of years back about a ship designed in
>the UK for simple,
>low cost construction using a 'new' laminate or honeycomb
>material.
>IIRC, it looked similar to the old Duster design from
>the US. I think
>I saw it featured on the cover of a book not long ago
>(Green glider
>against bucolic green landscape). Curious to hear
>whether it ever went
>into any sort of production. .
>
>Erik Mann
>LS8-18 (P3)
>
>
Yes - I have it recorded in one of my my log books.
Edgley EA9.
I flew it in September 1997 at RAF Dishforth for 17
minutes, off an aerotow.

Flew like a K-8 - only with better performance.
Generally handled very nicely - but I found it difficult
to trim out.
I couldn't have been all that impressed because I did
not order one - and much preferred my Open Cirrus anyway.
I can't remember how much the asking price was - but
I don't think it was all that cheap.

sta13.
UK.

[Ian Johnston]

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:07:13 UTC, "For Example John Smith"
> wrote:

> Thanks to RAS, I no longer need a calendar.
> When the PW-5 troll comes out, it must be winter in the Northern Hemisphere

> "Ian Johnston" > wrote in message
> news:dzZo7CxomoOm-pn2-BbTHJvIz8nks@localhost...

> > I know a fair few PW-5's were made, but did it ever come close to the
> > thousands predicted? Are they still in production?

Whatcha talking about? I genuinely want to know. I remember seeing
predictions here for very large sales indeed of the PW-5 (I think
10,000 was one forecast) and I'd like to know what happened. The only
owner I knew sold his a couple of years back.

I'm a fan of small gliders. SIFOW!

Ian

[Ian Johnston]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:02:35 UTC, "Papa3" >
wrote:

> Speaking of "whatever happened to"... I recall seeing an article in
> S&G a number of years back about a ship designed in the UK for simple,
> low cost construction using a "new" laminate or honeycomb material.

That was the Edgeley (I may have too many 'e's in there) Optimist. The
honeycomb material was the stuff they make commercial aircraft floors
from. I don't think it got beyond prototype, but I could be wrong.

I was teaching some mature student engineers a few years back in a
class on composite materials, and using glider spars as an example.
One of the students later said "Do you think the Optimist looks like
an ASK-18?" I replied "Are you a glider pilot?" "No", he said, "but I
work for the company which built the Optimist prototype, and we were
constantly taking measurements of aan ASK-18 which we had in the
workshop."

I thought there were strong similarities in the appearance ...

Ian

--

[Derek Copeland]

The Edgley EA9 'Optomist' was mainly constructed of
a material called 'Fibrelam' which is also used for
floors in airliners. As far as I know only one protoype
was built, as a production version would have cost
almost as much as a conventional sailplane, but with
little better than K18 (on which it was based) performance.
It was painted green and hence became nicknamed the
'flying cucumber'.

Derek Piggott flew this glider in several Lasham Regionals
and even managed to win his class in it one year. Although
he manages to make almost anything go competitively
- even the PW5!

Derek Copeland
----------------------
At 16:30 22 November 2005, Stanford Korwin wrote:>>
>Yes - I have it recorded in one of my my log books.
>Edgley EA9.
>I flew it in September 1997 at RAF Dishforth for 17
>minutes, off an aerotow.
>
>Flew like a K-8 - only with better performance.
>Generally handled very nicely - but I found it difficult
>to trim out.
>I couldn't have been all that impressed because I did
>not order one - and much preferred my Open Cirrus anyway.
>I can't remember how much the asking price was - but
>I don't think it was all that cheap.
>
>sta13.
>UK.
>
>

[Mike Lindsay]

In article >, Stanford Korwin
<REMOVE_TO_REPLY.sta13nski-slepowron@y
>>
>Yes - I have it recorded in one of my my log books.
>Edgley EA9.
>I flew it in September 1997 at RAF Dishforth for 17
>minutes, off an aerotow.
>
>Flew like a K-8 - only with better performance.
>Generally handled very nicely - but I found it difficult
>to trim out.
>I couldn't have been all that impressed because I did
>not order one - and much preferred my Open Cirrus anyway.
>I can't remember how much the asking price was - but
>I don't think it was all that cheap.
>
>sta13.
>UK.
>
>
>
>
There were better gliders available for the same price, albeit
second hand ones.

There were plans to build a two seat version, but the firm who
were providing the money pulled out before construction got very far.

Edgley at one time produced a revolutionary three seat ducted
fan aircraft which had exceptional visibility, and the ability to cruise
very slowly. This would have made it a good helicopter substitute for
some jobs, and indeed one police force in Southern England had one.
Unfortunately they totalled it.

The firm had several other completed and nearly complete planes,
but they were destroyed in a fire. Such a shame, it looked a very
promising product.



--
Mike Lindsay

[For Example John Smith]

Exactly.
My favorite flight was at the Sports Class Nats at Reese/Lubbock a couple
years back. We had a long leg toward Midland into a 25kt wind and the
thermals I was catching were only 3 knots and pretty ripped up by the wind
and hard to center. I beat my way into that wind all afternoon--2 steps
forward; 1.7 steps back. 2 steps forward; 2.1 steps back....
Finally I nicked the TAT and ran street with that 25kt tailwind back to
Reese. I must have used 50 thermals to get to the turn and 2 or 3 to get
home with an achieved L:D in excess of 50.
The next day I drove home and my wife delivered our child.

Happy Thanksgiving all!

"Charles Yeates" > wrote in message
...
> So do all sailplanes ---
>
> For Example John Smith wrote:
>> I haven't flown it at high altitudes, but in high winds it flies
>> backwards.
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>
>>>I read that in Poland the PW-5 had been approved for flights up to
>>>11,000 meters? Anyone have any idea how this bird flies in high
>>>winds/high altitude?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[CLewis95]

For Example John Smith wrote:
> Exactly.
> My favorite flight was at the Sports Class Nats at Reese/Lubbock a couple
> years back. We had a long leg toward Midland into a 25kt wind and the
> thermals I was catching were only 3 knots and pretty ripped up by the wind
> and hard to center. I beat my way into that wind all afternoon--2 steps
> forward; 1.7 steps back. 2 steps forward; 2.1 steps back....

I remember that day...and (sorta on topic) I completed that task in my
L33 Solo.

Curt Lewis - 95

[Malcolm Austin]

If anyone's interested?

I have seen a couple of the PW5's at a UK club,
http://www.burnglidingclub.co.uk/





"Ian Johnston" > wrote in message
news:dzZo7CxomoOm-pn2-FhsYc2YqHM38@localhost...
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:07:13 UTC, "For Example John Smith"
> > wrote:
>
>> Thanks to RAS, I no longer need a calendar.
>> When the PW-5 troll comes out, it must be winter in the Northern
>> Hemisphere
>
>> "Ian Johnston" > wrote in message
>> news:dzZo7CxomoOm-pn2-BbTHJvIz8nks@localhost...
>
>> > I know a fair few PW-5's were made, but did it ever come close to the
>> > thousands predicted? Are they still in production?
>
> Whatcha talking about? I genuinely want to know. I remember seeing
> predictions here for very large sales indeed of the PW-5 (I think
> 10,000 was one forecast) and I'd like to know what happened. The only
> owner I knew sold his a couple of years back.
>
> I'm a fan of small gliders. SIFOW!
>
> Ian

[Frank Whiteley]

Here are some others

http://www.texassoaring.org/AboutTSA/tsa_aircraft.asp

[Frank Whiteley]

Here are some others

http://www.texassoaring.org/AboutTSA/tsa_aircraft.asp