I'm never driving to Roanoke again....

[Jimbob]

My business partner got his ticket last month an we have finally been
justifiying the business expense for our training.

Last month we did our first business trip to KROA. Great trip.
Rented the FBO's PA28-180 with VFR GPS. Got there in about 1:45 with
a massive headwind (from 8A6, near charlotte). Beautiful country from
the air. Landed refreshed, picked up a car and was able to spend
about 4-5 hours with the customer. Flew back in about 1:15 and
arrived in charlotte before sundown, about 6:45. A little tired, but
it was our first x-country with his PP ticket, and first trip to KROA
by air.

Woke up last friday to iffy weather. Gusting winds, not bad but over
our comfort threashold. So we trundle off via car to Roanoke. Hit
traffic with 15 minutes in I-77. A semi lost a load of sheet metal.
Great. Finally free, we are OK for a while until our Mapquest and GPS
didn't agree and we got turned around on !-40 business(vs. I-40
regular) and lost about 30 minutes. Arrived on Roanoke tired and
****ed after a 4 hour journey. Got to spend about 3 hours on site.
Left about 5:00 and after a food stop got home about 10:15.


Wretched. Simply wretched. We were spoiled with our first flight.
We are now thinking about scheduling non-critical customer site times
(i.e. face time) with contingency days in case of bad weather.

Anybody else commute to customer sites regularly? How do you handle
the bad days?


Jim

http://www.unconventional-wisdom.org

[Jay Honeck]

> Wretched. Simply wretched. We were spoiled with our first flight.

You will never, EVER want to drive more than an hour again. When we are
forced to drive, it's absolute murder, either from the kids ("Are we there
yet?") or simply by looking at our watches, and realizing how much time
we've wasted.

> Anybody else commute to customer sites regularly? How do you handle
> the bad days?

We fly to airports all over the country in support of our aviation-themed
hotel, spreading our promotional message, material, and wares to
unsuspecting pilots and FBOs. Luckily, since just about every FBO is a
potential target, we just drop in -- and don't have to worry about hitting
anyone at a specific time.

If you are really serious about getting there at a specific time and date,
I'd be aiming at the instrument rating and a much more capable aircraft.
Spam cans like we fly (Pipers/Cessnas/Beechcraft/Mooneys) are simply not
reliable work tools, due to many factors. You need something with
known-icing capability, the ability to get above a lot of weather, and the
reliability of a turboprop in order to always plan on "getting there."

Sounds like there may be a Pilatus-style turboprop in your future?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gerald Sylvester]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> You will never, EVER want to drive more than an hour again. When we are
> forced to drive, it's absolute murder, ...

worse than murder. Much much worse than murder.

Get an IFR ticket. Thunderstorms and icing will stop you but not
too much else. That goes for you too Jay. ;-)

Gerald

[Dave]

Yes..a lot...

Just today..2 hrs air vs 5 hrs driving.

Next week, one trip will be 8 hrs X 2 driving, 5 meals, overnight
hotel..

With our Warrior, 1.6 hrs each way, one meal..

Another, 5 hrs drive each way, 1.3 hr flight each way

Most of the time, due to the nature of the work, we can sched these
trips on flyable days....

And we can whup the competition in response time and cost to the
client...

My partner comands $100 / hr + for his services,- pounding down the
highway is expensive...

We also use it for sales visits, most can be scheded around
weather....

It is a spam can, but VERY useful... IFR capable only to be safe(r)
for our OTT ratings...

Did I mention we love to fly? :)

YMMV..

Dave


On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:26:34 GMT, Jimbob >
wrote:

>My business partner got his ticket last month an we have finally been
>justifiying the business expense for our training.
>
>Last month we did our first business trip to KROA. Great trip.
>Rented the FBO's PA28-180 with VFR GPS. Got there in about 1:45 with
>a massive headwind (from 8A6, near charlotte). Beautiful country from
>the air. Landed refreshed, picked up a car and was able to spend
>about 4-5 hours with the customer. Flew back in about 1:15 and
>arrived in charlotte before sundown, about 6:45. A little tired, but
>it was our first x-country with his PP ticket, and first trip to KROA
>by air.
>
>Woke up last friday to iffy weather. Gusting winds, not bad but over
>our comfort threashold. So we trundle off via car to Roanoke. Hit
>traffic with 15 minutes in I-77. A semi lost a load of sheet metal.
>Great. Finally free, we are OK for a while until our Mapquest and GPS
>didn't agree and we got turned around on !-40 business(vs. I-40
>regular) and lost about 30 minutes. Arrived on Roanoke tired and
>****ed after a 4 hour journey. Got to spend about 3 hours on site.
>Left about 5:00 and after a food stop got home about 10:15.
>
>
>Wretched. Simply wretched. We were spoiled with our first flight.
>We are now thinking about scheduling non-critical customer site times
>(i.e. face time) with contingency days in case of bad weather.
>
>Anybody else commute to customer sites regularly? How do you handle
>the bad days?
>
>
>Jim
>
>http://www.unconventional-wisdom.org

[Denny]

Wednesday we are driving 5:30 to Cleveland for the holiday and a
couple of days with my daughter... It is normally 1:30 in the
Apache... I am absolutely dreading it... We have to haul my son's truck
back on a dolly, so we will be 6:30 on the return leg... Did I mention
I am dreading this... Gawd I hate driving...

denny

[Jay Honeck]

> Get an IFR ticket. Thunderstorms and icing will stop you but not
> too much else. That goes for you too Jay. ;-)

If you eliminate T-storms and icing, you've eliminated 90% of IFR conditions
in the Midwest.

An IR will help on that last 10%, but he needs to get a more capable plane
if he really needs to get somewhere at a certain time, 100% of the time.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter R.]

Jimbob > wrote:

> Anybody else commute to customer sites regularly?

Yes, every week.

> How do you handle the bad days?

IMO and experience, an IFR rating is, uh, instrumental for commuting. The
days that are really bad I adjust my schedule to leave either earlier or
later than the weather event (t-storms or winter storms, severe icing,
etc.).


--
Peter
























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[Peter R.]

Jay Honeck > wrote:

> An IR will help on that last 10%, but he needs to get a more capable plane
> if he really needs to get somewhere at a certain time, 100% of the time.

You mean like an Airbus or Boeing?

--
Peter
























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[Jay Honeck]

>> An IR will help on that last 10%, but he needs to get a more capable
>> plane
>> if he really needs to get somewhere at a certain time, 100% of the time.
>
> You mean like an Airbus or Boeing?

Point taken.

Even then, on my last commercial flight I ended up stuck in Denver overnight
due to the crew being stuck in Wyoming due to weather...

There is no 100% reliable form of transportation.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter R.]

Jay Honeck > wrote:

> There is no 100% reliable form of transportation.

What flights the weather doesn't deter, maintenance will. ;-)

--
Peter

[Robet Coffey]

At one time I had several meeting a year in Roanoke and Charlottesville,
VA. I have never been able to fly to a single one. My meetings were
typically in February or March and the airports were always socked in
for days. Been to ground school....IFR in 06 i hope.
Jimbob wrote:
> My business partner got his ticket last month an we have finally been
> justifiying the business expense for our training.
>
> Last month we did our first business trip to KROA. Great trip.
> Rented the FBO's PA28-180 with VFR GPS. Got there in about 1:45 with
> a massive headwind (from 8A6, near charlotte). Beautiful country from
> the air. Landed refreshed, picked up a car and was able to spend
> about 4-5 hours with the customer. Flew back in about 1:15 and
> arrived in charlotte before sundown, about 6:45. A little tired, but
> it was our first x-country with his PP ticket, and first trip to KROA
> by air.
>
> Woke up last friday to iffy weather. Gusting winds, not bad but over
> our comfort threashold. So we trundle off via car to Roanoke. Hit
> traffic with 15 minutes in I-77. A semi lost a load of sheet metal.
> Great. Finally free, we are OK for a while until our Mapquest and GPS
> didn't agree and we got turned around on !-40 business(vs. I-40
> regular) and lost about 30 minutes. Arrived on Roanoke tired and
> ****ed after a 4 hour journey. Got to spend about 3 hours on site.
> Left about 5:00 and after a food stop got home about 10:15.
>
>
> Wretched. Simply wretched. We were spoiled with our first flight.
> We are now thinking about scheduling non-critical customer site times
> (i.e. face time) with contingency days in case of bad weather.
>
> Anybody else commute to customer sites regularly? How do you handle
> the bad days?
>
>
> Jim
>
> http://www.unconventional-wisdom.org

[Jimbob]

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 01:32:14 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:


>reliable work tools, due to many factors. You need something with
>known-icing capability, the ability to get above a lot of weather, and the
>reliability of a turboprop in order to always plan on "getting there."
>
>Sounds like there may be a Pilatus-style turboprop in your future?


Only if I end up being a long lost relative of Bill Gates... :)



Jim

http://www.unconventional-wisdom.org

[Jim Burns]

I've already been told by my travel agent (my wife) that the Dec 10th/11th
we WILL be in Michigan, even if we have to drive.... 8 hours each way
compared to 1:20 in the Aztec. I feel your pain.
Jim

"Denny" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Wednesday we are driving 5:30 to Cleveland for the holiday and a
> couple of days with my daughter... It is normally 1:30 in the
> Apache... I am absolutely dreading it... We have to haul my son's truck
> back on a dolly, so we will be 6:30 on the return leg... Did I mention
> I am dreading this... Gawd I hate driving...
>
> denny
>

[Gerald Sylvester]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> If you eliminate T-storms and icing, you've eliminated 90% of IFR conditions
> in the Midwest.

No wonder Kalifornia is so expensive. I forgot you get snow from
September to May. Actually some of Kalifornia does too.

Gerald

[Jay Honeck]

> At one time I had several meeting a year in Roanoke and Charlottesville,
> VA. I have never been able to fly to a single one. My meetings were
> typically in February or March and the airports were always socked in
> for days. Been to ground school....IFR in 06 i hope.

The mean temperature in February (in Roanoke) is 37 degrees, with a bit
over 3 inches of precipitation (From 1948 - 2005) This means a fair
amount of that precip is either ice or snow.

I don't think an IR will help much at that time of year, unless your
aircraft has known icing capability.

I don't mean to denigrate the IR -- I've got 90% of the training done,
and it has made me a much more precise pilot -- but don't fool yourself
into thinking that the IR is going to make your flights that much more
reliable. With the level of aircraft most of us fly
(Beech/Piper/Cessna/Mooney spam cans), we run up against equipment
limitations as much as anything -- especially in the winter.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> I don't mean to denigrate the IR -- I've got 90% of the training done,
> and it has made me a much more precise pilot -- but don't fool yourself
> into thinking that the IR is going to make your flights that much more
> reliable. With the level of aircraft most of us fly
> (Beech/Piper/Cessna/Mooney spam cans), we run up against equipment
> limitations as much as anything -- especially in the winter.


Don't be too quick to throw up your hands either. In the Carolinas, back when I
was flying cancelled checks, I was expected to fly five days a week irregardless
of the weather. I stood down only a few times during the winter.... and trust
me, my aircraft wasn't certified for flying in known icing conditions. The FAA
guys used to walk around my aircraft, look at all the leaks on the tarmac and
just shake their heads.

What do you want? It was state of the art in the year I was born.

Seriously, in this part of the world the instrument rating can save many a trip
otherwise not possible.... even in winter. You just have to know the difference
between the goes and the no-goes.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Blanche]

And I've got to fly commercial to BUF for family emergency. Weather is
forecast to be miserable, not even IFR for me. I checked on Amtrak,
but that's out of the question too -- deadline looms.

curses, foiled again.

[vincent p. norris]

>We fly to airports all over the country in support of our aviation-themed
>hotel...

Jay, did you quit your newspaper job and buy that hotel just so you
could go flying all over the country and write it off?

Damn! I wish I had thought of that, 40 years ago!

vince norris

[Guy Elden Jr]

This is ironic timing...

I just had to cancel my reservation for the club's 180HP 172. Was
planning to fly this past Sunday evening from Morristown, NJ to
Roanoke, and then from there to Gainesville, GA. Well, weather wasn't
the best, but for the first leg of the trip everything looked VFR. The
second half would have put us in Gainesville sometime around 1:30am
with very low IFR - iffy if we'd even get in with just the localizer
approach, so I planned on PDK as the alternate (only airport nearby
allowed to file as an alternate, and with an ILS approach).

Turns out all this planning was for naught, as the primer pump on the
plane broke on the guy who had the plane before me (who, irony #2, is
also one of the club's maintenance officers). He and the other officer
couldn't get the part fixed, so the plane was grounded. That, plus the
bad weather forecasts for Monday and Tuesday up in the NE this week
convinced me to just hit the road... left home at 6:40pm, arrived
somewhere in the boonies of NC (Statesville?) around 4:30am. Hotel, 5
hours of sleep, shower, and my wife and I hit the road for day 2,
finally arriving in Gainesville, GA, around 3:30pm today. 21 hours on
the road, versus around 7 in the air. Yup, General Aviation is great
when it works, but sometimes you just can't get there.

--
Guy

[Robet Coffey]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>At one time I had several meeting a year in Roanoke and Charlottesville,
>>VA. I have never been able to fly to a single one. My meetings were
>>typically in February or March and the airports were always socked in
>>for days. Been to ground school....IFR in 06 i hope.
>
>
> The mean temperature in February (in Roanoke) is 37 degrees, with a bit
> over 3 inches of precipitation (From 1948 - 2005) This means a fair
> amount of that precip is either ice or snow.
>
> I don't think an IR will help much at that time of year, unless your
> aircraft has known icing capability.
>
> I don't mean to denigrate the IR -- I've got 90% of the training done,
> and it has made me a much more precise pilot -- but don't fool yourself
> into thinking that the IR is going to make your flights that much more
> reliable. With the level of aircraft most of us fly
> (Beech/Piper/Cessna/Mooney spam cans), we run up against equipment
> limitations as much as anything -- especially in the winter.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
I don't think I would tackle hard IFR into Roanoke, much less flirt with
a freezing level upon completion of my instrument rating. I am
definitely a "spam can" <pa32-260> pilot. But once, just once I would
like to avoid the truck traffic on I-81 through those rolling hills.
Your right though, slim chance in Feb., even IFR.

[Jay Honeck]

> >We fly to airports all over the country in support of our aviation-themed
>>hotel...
>
> Jay, did you quit your newspaper job and buy that hotel just so you
> could go flying all over the country and write it off?

Well, it sure as heck wasn't to get rich!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans]

"Guy Elden Jr" > wrote

> arrived
> somewhere in the boonies of NC (Statesville?)

Yep, that is the boonies, and it is a little over a half hour from where I
live.

Could you not have flown partway, and driven (rental car) the rest, or is
their no other plane?
--
Jim in NC

[vincent p. norris]

>Well, it sure as heck wasn't to get rich!

Being able to fly as much as you want is my definition of "rich."

((:-))

vince norris

[Guy Elden Jr]

Well, Sunday the weather between NJ and VA was good, but was forecast
to get worse on Monday and Tuesday (which it did). After driving
through some fairly heavy rain on Monday in NE Georgia, I'm actually
glad we didn't try to go.

The club has 3 planes, but only 2 are really meant for x-country, and
unfortunately the other one was booked at various times throughout the
week.

--
Guy