Commercial rating: complex aircraft required aircraft for practical test?

[Marc J. Zeitlin]

So after getting my instrument rating in my COZY last April, I'm
starting to think about getting my commercial rating. I realize that
per FAR 61.129 (a)(3)(ii) I need to have 10 hours in a complex aircraft
(flaps, retracts, CS prop), which my COZY doesn't have, so I'll have to
take that 10 hours of lessons in another aircraft. That's fine - won't
hurt me to do that, that's for sure. AFAICT, I've got all the other
requirements met, for hours, cross-countries, etc., and I'll have to
take the written, of course.

An instructor told me yesterday that I would have to take the practical
test in a complex aircraft (which the COZY isn't), but for the life of
me, I can't find that requirement anywhere in the FAR's. Can someone
out there point me to the FAR that requires a complex aircraft be used
for the Commercial rating practical test? Or point me to where that's
NOT required, and this instructor is mistaken?

Thanks.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2005

[Cal Vanize]

Marc J. Zeitlin wrote:

> So after getting my instrument rating in my COZY last April, I'm
> starting to think about getting my commercial rating. I realize that
> per FAR 61.129 (a)(3)(ii) I need to have 10 hours in a complex aircraft
> (flaps, retracts, CS prop), which my COZY doesn't have, so I'll have to
> take that 10 hours of lessons in another aircraft. That's fine - won't
> hurt me to do that, that's for sure. AFAICT, I've got all the other
> requirements met, for hours, cross-countries, etc., and I'll have to
> take the written, of course.
>
> An instructor told me yesterday that I would have to take the practical
> test in a complex aircraft (which the COZY isn't), but for the life of
> me, I can't find that requirement anywhere in the FAR's. Can someone
> out there point me to the FAR that requires a complex aircraft be used
> for the Commercial rating practical test? Or point me to where that's
> NOT required, and this instructor is mistaken?
>
> Thanks.

Why not double up and get a multi-engine rating as part of your complex
aircraft requirements.

[john smith]

In article >,
"Marc J. Zeitlin" > wrote:

> So after getting my instrument rating in my COZY last April, I'm
> starting to think about getting my commercial rating. I realize that
> per FAR 61.129 (a)(3)(ii) I need to have 10 hours in a complex aircraft
> (flaps, retracts, CS prop), which my COZY doesn't have, so I'll have to
> take that 10 hours of lessons in another aircraft. That's fine - won't
> hurt me to do that, that's for sure. AFAICT, I've got all the other
> requirements met, for hours, cross-countries, etc., and I'll have to
> take the written, of course.
>
> An instructor told me yesterday that I would have to take the practical
> test in a complex aircraft (which the COZY isn't), but for the life of
> me, I can't find that requirement anywhere in the FAR's. Can someone
> out there point me to the FAR that requires a complex aircraft be used
> for the Commercial rating practical test? Or point me to where that's
> NOT required, and this instructor is mistaken?

I was told you only have to take the portions that apply to the complex
part of the test in a complex aircraft.

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

Most folks around here rent an Arrow for the complex portion (To&L) then do
the rest of the flying maneuvers in their plane or a cheaper 150/172.

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.


"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Marc J. Zeitlin" > wrote:
>
>> So after getting my instrument rating in my COZY last April, I'm
>> starting to think about getting my commercial rating. I realize that
>> per FAR 61.129 (a)(3)(ii) I need to have 10 hours in a complex aircraft
>> (flaps, retracts, CS prop), which my COZY doesn't have, so I'll have to
>> take that 10 hours of lessons in another aircraft. That's fine - won't
>> hurt me to do that, that's for sure. AFAICT, I've got all the other
>> requirements met, for hours, cross-countries, etc., and I'll have to
>> take the written, of course.
>>
>> An instructor told me yesterday that I would have to take the practical
>> test in a complex aircraft (which the COZY isn't), but for the life of
>> me, I can't find that requirement anywhere in the FAR's. Can someone
>> out there point me to the FAR that requires a complex aircraft be used
>> for the Commercial rating practical test? Or point me to where that's
>> NOT required, and this instructor is mistaken?
>
> I was told you only have to take the portions that apply to the complex
> part of the test in a complex aircraft.

[Robert M. Gary]

In order to demonstrate all items in the PTS you will need a complex
plane for the landings. You can use two different planes for the flight
part if the DE is ok with it. Another option would be to get your
Commercial Multi first. Adding a SE to your ME commercial ticket only
requires the maneuvers and can be done in a Cessna 150.

-Robert, CFI

[Sylvain]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Commercial Multi first. Adding a SE to your ME commercial ticket only
> requires the maneuvers and can be done in a Cessna 150.

or a Citabria 7ECA :-))

--Sylvain

[Bill Zaleski]

This is NOT true. All the take offs. landings, and emergency approach
and landing must be done again, in a single engine aircraft, though it
need not be in a complex. Look at the rating task table in the PTS
for additional class ratings.


On 20 Nov 2005 19:26:42 -0800, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>In order to demonstrate all items in the PTS you will need a complex
>plane for the landings. You can use two different planes for the flight
>part if the DE is ok with it. Another option would be to get your
>Commercial Multi first. Adding a SE to your ME commercial ticket only
>requires the maneuvers and can be done in a Cessna 150.
>
>-Robert, CFI

[Watson]

AFAICT, I've got all the other
> requirements met, for hours, cross-countries, etc., and I'll have to take
> the written, of course.

Are you implying that you have met the commercial xc requirements previously
before beginning training for the commercial? If so, you may want to read
the regulations carefully.

Watson

[Marc J. Zeitlin]

Peter Duniho wrote:

> In the case of the Commercial Airplane Practical Test, you can find
> the requirement on page 7, under "Aircraft and Equipment Required for
> the Practical Test".....

Thanks!

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2005

[Andrew Gideon]

Watson wrote:

> If so, you may want to read
> the regulations carefully.

Right. There are a couple of 100 mile duals in there that most people
wouldn't have w/o deliberate commercial intent.

- Andrew

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Andrew Gideon wrote:
> Watson wrote:
>
>> If so, you may want to read
>> the regulations carefully.
>
> Right. There are a couple of 100 mile duals in there that most people
> wouldn't have w/o deliberate commercial intent.


One good trip to Marsh Harbour, Abaco Island, Bahamas took care of that for me.
About 650 NM each way from here. In fact, as I think about it, that trip took
care of several of my requirements.


--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Peter Duniho]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
m...
>> Right. There are a couple of 100 mile duals in there that most people
>> wouldn't have w/o deliberate commercial intent.
>
> One good trip to Marsh Harbour, Abaco Island, Bahamas took care of that
> for me.

You took an instructor?

[Matt Whiting]

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

> Andrew Gideon wrote:
>
>>Watson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If so, you may want to read
>>>the regulations carefully.
>>
>>Right. There are a couple of 100 mile duals in there that most people
>>wouldn't have w/o deliberate commercial intent.
>
>
>
> One good trip to Marsh Harbour, Abaco Island, Bahamas took care of that for me.
> About 650 NM each way from here. In fact, as I think about it, that trip took
> care of several of my requirements.
>
>

And you probably didn't even have to pay the instructor for a trip
there! :-)

Matt

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Peter Duniho wrote:
> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
> m...
>>> Right. There are a couple of 100 mile duals in there that most people
>>> wouldn't have w/o deliberate commercial intent.
>>
>> One good trip to Marsh Harbour, Abaco Island, Bahamas took care of that
>> for me.
>
> You took an instructor?


Hell. no. I took a woman.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Peter Duniho]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
om...
>> You took an instructor?
>
> Hell. no. I took a woman.

Then I fail to see the relevance of that trip to the dual instruction
required for the Commercial certificate.

[Doug]

The Commercial training is fairly short. I did mine in about the 10
hours required. I rented a Cessna 172RG and took my checkride in that.
I don't think you really save much by going with a less expensive plane
for the manuevers because you need the 10 hours in a complex
regardless. So I just went up and did the manuevers in the RG. For the
long cross country, a less expensive plane makes sense. Also, with the
typical downtime and rental hassles, renting two planes on the day of
the checkride and having them both working is something to think about.


My suggestion is do your long cross country in your plane and the rest
in the least expensive complex plane you can find. Then take the
checkride in the complex plane. Simplist solution and not likely to be
any more expensive than trying to do it in two, or in your case, three
aircraft.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Peter Duniho wrote:
> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
> om...
>>> You took an instructor?
>>
>> Hell. no. I took a woman.
>
> Then I fail to see the relevance of that trip to the dual instruction
> required for the Commercial certificate.


Oops. I must have missed the "dual" part. Oh, well.... If nothing else, count
it against 61.129 (a)(4)(i). If you come back later in the day, you could also
apply 61.129 (a)(4)(ii). If you fly the trip in an Arrow, Cutlass, C-210,
Lance, Bonanza, etc...and bring an instructor with you then you could also apply
61.129(a)(3)(i) and (ii). The possibilities are endless.

The most important part is whoever you bring should be female and hopefully
unattached. The Bahamas are a very seductive place.

Trust me.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[[email protected]]

Mark,
I learned all the maneuvers in my C172, then rented a Beech Debonair
for 10 hrs working on landings and emergency procedures, and some
traveling I needed to do.

I then did the commercial check ride in my C172 and the Deb - with
0.3hrs in the deb (two circuits around the pattern at an uncontrolled
field).

I flew the 172 to the the DE's airport, did the oral, paperwork, and
inspection. Flew the chandelles and lazy8's on the way to another
airport, where we rented a BE33 to demonstrate the complex procedures.
Then flew the DE back home.

I used the same BE33 for CFI a few months later.

You could install a constant speed prop and retractable nose gear to
your Cozy, then you would be all set...

Mitch

[[email protected]]

Mark,
I learned all the maneuvers in my C172, then rented a Beech Debonair
for 10 hrs working on landings and emergency procedures, and some
traveling I needed to do.

I then did the commercial check ride in my C172 and the Deb - with
0.3hrs in the deb (two circuits around the pattern at an uncontrolled
field).

I flew the 172 to the the DE's airport, did the oral, paperwork, and
inspection. Flew the chandelles and lazy8's on the way to another
airport, where we rented a BE33 to demonstrate the complex procedures.
Then flew the DE back home.

I used the same BE33 for CFI a few months later.

You could install a constant speed prop and retractable nose gear to
your Cozy, then you would be all set...

Mitch

[Peter Duniho]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
om...
> [...]
> The most important part is whoever you bring should be female and
> hopefully unattached. The Bahamas are a very seductive place.
>
> Trust me.

*yawn*

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Peter Duniho wrote:
> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
> om...
>> [...]
>> The most important part is whoever you bring should be female and
>> hopefully unattached. The Bahamas are a very seductive place.
>>
>> Trust me.
>
> *yawn*


Well, pardon the **** out of me. Go back to sleep.

[Marc J. Zeitlin]

Mitch wrote:

> I then did the commercial check ride in my C172 and the Deb - with
> 0.3hrs in the deb (two circuits around the pattern at an uncontrolled
> field).

Good suggestions.

> You could install a constant speed prop and retractable nose gear to
> your Cozy, then you would be all set...

Well, I have retractable nose gear already, and there are COZY's with CS
props (but not mine), but NO COZY's have flaps, and it's not possible to
install them (the landing brake/belly brake is NOT a flap), so it's
still not complex..... :-).

Oh, well.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2005

[Cecil Chapman]

There's NO reg that says you can't take the Commercial Checkride in two
planes (i.e., a complex and a non-complex). In fact, I did just that; did
the maneuvers in the C-172 and the Complex demonstrations (required in the
PTS) in a Piper Arrow II. Only trick is to find a D.E. that is okay with
that... I had no problem (knew of two D.E.'s both willing to spilt the test
for a slightly higher examiner fee).

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CP-ASEL-IA

Student - C.F.I.

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -