CAP?

[Rachel]

I've been doing a little research off and on for the past few months,
but can't seem to find anyone who is actually involved.

So - what's the story? Is it a good organization to get involved in?

[kgruber]

If you like to learn to march!


"Rachel" > wrote in message
...
> I've been doing a little research off and on for the past few months, but
> can't seem to find anyone who is actually involved.
>
> So - what's the story? Is it a good organization to get involved in?

[Jay Honeck]

> So - what's the story? Is it a good organization to get involved in?

My 15 year old son and I have been in a CAP Composite Squadron (made up of
both senior members and cadets) for a year.

There are two reasons to get involved with CAP:

1. For yourself
2. For cadets

If you're into #1, find a Senior Squadron. These are basically flying clubs,
with more casual rules and regs than composite squadrons. There is little
emphasis on anything but SAR (Search and Rescue) and flying. You might
meet twice a month, maybe less.

If you're into #2, composite squadrons are the way to go. With the kids,
there is a greater emphasis on training, encampments, direction finding,
SAR, moral leadership, etc. It's essentially Scouting with a real purpose
beyond just eating SMOREs. You'll meet weekly.

The CAP organization is like any other bureaucracy. If you've got a good
group, it's a good organization. If you're stuck with a bunch of stuffed
shirts or disorganized people, it can suck.

The concept of the organization is a good one. It's up to you to make it
work.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Seth Masia]

It depends on where you are and what you want out of it.

I flew search-and-rescue missions for a mountain-town CAP squadron for ten
years, and got in a lot of quality training and experience for very little
money. Most of the flying was paid for by the Air Force. I learned a ton,
and logged over 250 hours in the squadron's C-182. I joined as a 100-hour PP
and left as a pretty experienced 500-hour instrument-rated PP ASEL/ASES.
The SAR missions are tremendously rewarding: you have a sense you're giving
something very valuable back to the community. Occassionally you help to
save a life.

Not all squadrons are set up to make flying this rewarding. As one CAP vet
told me, "There are flyin' outfits and salutin' outfits." I'd try to find
out first what sort your local group is. It's a volunteer organization, and
as in any volunteer org, if the local group allows its narcissists to assume
command, the experience can . . . erode.

Also there's a ton of paperwork. As in the military, nothing counts, and
nothing happens, until the forms are filed.

I'm eternally grateful to the organization for the experiences it gave me.

Seth

[Robert M. Gary]

I've been in CAP for about a year. If you like hanging around airplane
people its a good social outlet. Actually flying missions requires a
good commitment. In our squardron about 15% of the FAA licensed pilots
are certified as mission pilots. The reason is just the long line of
training, written tests and practical tests you go through before you
actually get to fly missions. I've heard people say they get to mission
pilot in 6 months but for most pilots it seems to be about 3 years.
Then you have currency requirements. Anyone who has been in the
military can appreciate the months of dely you run into sometimes just
waiting for approval for the training you just finished. I'm not trying
to talk anyone out of anything (obviously since I've stuck with it) but
rather to set realisitic expectations.
On the possitive side, our squardron is scheduled to get a brand new
glass cockpit 182. The FBO next door is renting the same plane for
$200/hr.

-Robert

[Chris G.]

What is the CAP "rental" rate now, anyway? When I got out of CAP in
2001, it was about $65.

Chris G.



Robert M. Gary wrote:
> I've been in CAP for about a year. If you like hanging around airplane
> people its a good social outlet. Actually flying missions requires a
> good commitment. In our squardron about 15% of the FAA licensed pilots
> are certified as mission pilots. The reason is just the long line of
> training, written tests and practical tests you go through before you
> actually get to fly missions. I've heard people say they get to mission
> pilot in 6 months but for most pilots it seems to be about 3 years.
> Then you have currency requirements. Anyone who has been in the
> military can appreciate the months of dely you run into sometimes just
> waiting for approval for the training you just finished. I'm not trying
> to talk anyone out of anything (obviously since I've stuck with it) but
> rather to set realisitic expectations.
> On the possitive side, our squardron is scheduled to get a brand new
> glass cockpit 182. The FBO next door is renting the same plane for
> $200/hr.
>
> -Robert
>

[Jim Burns]

I recently heard it described as "requiring that you are a sadist for
paperwork. If you can't fill out your own 1040 each year nor enjoy doing
it, imagine making it part of your pre-flight."
Jim

"Rachel" > wrote in message
...
> I've been doing a little research off and on for the past few months,
> but can't seem to find anyone who is actually involved.
>
> So - what's the story? Is it a good organization to get involved in?

[Robert M. Gary]

$35 dry. Although there is talk about waving it for many of us for the
new glass 182. CAP is requiring a good amount of flight training to
qualify to fly the glass cockpit and is considering funding the $35
part of it. It makes sense to me because this is maintenance money and
you shouldn't have much out-of-pocket maintenance expenses with a plane
under warranty.

[Rachel]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> I've been in CAP for about a year. If you like hanging around airplane
> people its a good social outlet. Actually flying missions requires a
> good commitment. In our squardron about 15% of the FAA licensed pilots
> are certified as mission pilots. The reason is just the long line of
> training, written tests and practical tests you go through before you
> actually get to fly missions. I've heard people say they get to mission
> pilot in 6 months but for most pilots it seems to be about 3 years.
> Then you have currency requirements. Anyone who has been in the
> military can appreciate the months of dely you run into sometimes just
> waiting for approval for the training you just finished. I'm not trying
> to talk anyone out of anything (obviously since I've stuck with it) but
> rather to set realisitic expectations.
> On the possitive side, our squardron is scheduled to get a brand new
> glass cockpit 182. The FBO next door is renting the same plane for
> $200/hr.
>
> -Robert
>

I guess the above is what concerns me. I just moved, have no life, and
am looking for something to suck up time. Sitting in meetings, though,
is not better than sitting on my couch - I actually want to do
something. Why are only 15% certified? Is that all that is needed?
Would a female, relatively low time (600-ish) pilot fit in?

[Rachel]

Morgans wrote:
> "Rachel" > wrote
>
>
>>Would a female, relatively low time (600-ish) pilot fit in?
>
>
> I would say that a woman pilot, with 600 hours, would fit in anytime, in an
> aviation based group.
>
> You should also check out the EAA chapters in your area, and possibly the
> nearby surrounding towns. Some chapters are much more active, and have
> vastly differing personalities.

Yeah, EAA is something I looked into in college, and it really wasn't
for me. Maybe it's the "recreational" part - I just don't quite fit
into that group.

[Morgans]

"Rachel" > wrote

> Would a female, relatively low time (600-ish) pilot fit in?

I would say that a woman pilot, with 600 hours, would fit in anytime, in an
aviation based group.

You should also check out the EAA chapters in your area, and possibly the
nearby surrounding towns. Some chapters are much more active, and have
vastly differing personalities.
--
Jim in NC

[Dave Stadt]

"Rachel" > wrote in message
. ..
> Morgans wrote:
> > "Rachel" > wrote
> >
> >
> >>Would a female, relatively low time (600-ish) pilot fit in?
> >
> >
> > I would say that a woman pilot, with 600 hours, would fit in anytime, in
an
> > aviation based group.
> >
> > You should also check out the EAA chapters in your area, and possibly
the
> > nearby surrounding towns. Some chapters are much more active, and have
> > vastly differing personalities.
>
> Yeah, EAA is something I looked into in college, and it really wasn't
> for me. Maybe it's the "recreational" part - I just don't quite fit
> into that group.

A number of EAA chapters abhor anyone other than white males over the age of
70. A recent visit to a rather mature chapter involved a discussion as to
whether Cessna 150s came from the factory with a nose wheel or a tailwheel.

[Rachel]

Dave Stadt wrote:


> A number of EAA chapters abhor anyone other than white males over the age of
> 70. A recent visit to a rather mature chapter involved a discussion as to
> whether Cessna 150s came from the factory with a nose wheel or a tailwheel.
>

LOL, that's kind of the idea that I got from the chapter in Indiana that
I visited. Don't get me wrong, I love sitting around talking about
flying (and all my flying buddies are men), but at some point it becomes
ridiculous. Plus, homebuilts and warbirds aren't my thing.

[Dave S]

Rachel wrote:
Why are only 15% certified? Is that all that is needed?
> Would a female, relatively low time (600-ish) pilot fit in?

I checked into a local Senior squadron to check things out (know a few
peeps in it) and while I WANT to join up, I honestly have too many irons
in the fire at this moment.

My impression is, the 15% number is the end result of the many steps
required to become a mission pilot. You have to be qualified in lesser
positions first, and each level of qualification may require ACTUAL
mission experience before being fully qualified. So, if you aren't
available when the mission hits, you miss out on an opportunity to check
to box.

If you were retired, with no job and 24/7 availability or otherwise
didnt need to work, I'm sure you could breeze through in no time (a few
months at most). Much of the "drag it out" factor is really a function
of how many personal time vampires we each have.

600 is actually pretty high time for what I've come across for new CAP
members in my area.

Dave

[Ronald Gardner]

I been active for 5 years now and was a cadet from 1969 to 1973. It is a
volunteer organization with many USAF rule and reg's. The rules are not
to bad for anyone with former military experience, however there are the
usual political issues as there are with any volunteer organization. The
level of which depends on the units and state you are involved with.

As I pilot, my personal view is that if I go down I sure want someone to
come looking for me. And if I expect that then I need to be willing to
return the favor if needed. There is training involved and it is much
more professional and demanding as compared to the early 70's.

If you or anyone has the time to commit I recommend it. Give it a try
and it is volunteer you can quit any time.

Ron Gardner, LT
MPT, MS, MO

Rachel wrote:

> I've been doing a little research off and on for the past few months,
> but can't seem to find anyone who is actually involved.
>
> So - what's the story? Is it a good organization to get involved in?

[Ronald Gardner]

5 years never marched!

kgruber wrote:

> If you like to learn to march!
>
> "Rachel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've been doing a little research off and on for the past few months, but
> > can't seem to find anyone who is actually involved.
> >
> > So - what's the story? Is it a good organization to get involved in?

[Ronald Gardner]

Jay, I knew there was a reason I liked you! You have a very good philosophy.
Some day I need to get to Iowa.

Ron Gardner

Jay Honeck wrote:

> > So - what's the story? Is it a good organization to get involved in?
>
> My 15 year old son and I have been in a CAP Composite Squadron (made up of
> both senior members and cadets) for a year.
>
> There are two reasons to get involved with CAP:
>
> 1. For yourself
> 2. For cadets
>
> If you're into #1, find a Senior Squadron. These are basically flying clubs,
> with more casual rules and regs than composite squadrons. There is little
> emphasis on anything but SAR (Search and Rescue) and flying. You might
> meet twice a month, maybe less.
>
> If you're into #2, composite squadrons are the way to go. With the kids,
> there is a greater emphasis on training, encampments, direction finding,
> SAR, moral leadership, etc. It's essentially Scouting with a real purpose
> beyond just eating SMOREs. You'll meet weekly.
>
> The CAP organization is like any other bureaucracy. If you've got a good
> group, it's a good organization. If you're stuck with a bunch of stuffed
> shirts or disorganized people, it can suck.
>
> The concept of the organization is a good one. It's up to you to make it
> work.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[Ronald Gardner]

What are you talking about? There is a log for your time and write ups ect.
for the aircraft and that is it. If that is to much for you to understand I
question how you passed the PP ground school and written.

Yes there are form in CAP much of the and test are online and I have not seen
one that was more than needing a little study work to complete or pass.

Don't let this type of statement sway anyone's idea. Try it and see and make
your own long term decision.

The training and testing is just like what a good volunteer fire department
would demand if you joined just different.

Remember: "You volunteer your time, but once there you are a professional and
the training and commitment required to be professional is required".

Ron Gardner

Jim Burns wrote:

> I recently heard it described as "requiring that you are a sadist for
> paperwork. If you can't fill out your own 1040 each year nor enjoy doing
> it, imagine making it part of your pre-flight."
> Jim
>
> "Rachel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've been doing a little research off and on for the past few months,
> > but can't seem to find anyone who is actually involved.
> >
> > So - what's the story? Is it a good organization to get involved in?

[Jay Honeck]

> Don't let this type of statement sway anyone's idea. Try it and see and
> make
> your own long term decision.

Well, Ron, I haven't bothered to get flight certified, so I can't comment on
that. But I recently drove our squadron van from its home at the airport,
to our open house at the local armory -- a distance of about 5 blocks -- and
back.

In the dark I couldn't find the vehicle log. I figured "What's 10 blocks?"
and left it at that.

Oh, my God. You'd have thought I had done a high speed pass, at over 400
knots, over Penny Benjamin's house. (Bonus points if you can tell me which
movie this is paraphrased from.)

Paperwork is a very CAP thing.
--
Jay Honeck
CAP Senior Member, 2d Lt
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Rachel]

Ronald Gardner wrote:
> What are you talking about? There is a log for your time and write ups ect.
> for the aircraft and that is it. If that is to much for you to understand I
> question how you passed the PP ground school and written.
>
> Yes there are form in CAP much of the and test are online and I have not seen
> one that was more than needing a little study work to complete or pass.
>
> Don't let this type of statement sway anyone's idea. Try it and see and make
> your own long term decision.
>
> The training and testing is just like what a good volunteer fire department
> would demand if you joined just different.

How hard is the testing are we talking about? I haven't flown much in
the past few years, and don't consider myself to be very proficient.
The instructor who has been doing instrument work with me disagrees, but
I don't want to even get into a situation where they tell me I'm not
good enough, you know?

[Joe Johnson]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:Qi6kf.617617$xm3.103974@attbi_s21...

> Oh, my God. You'd have thought I had done a high speed pass, at over 400
> knots, over Penny Benjamin's house. (Bonus points if you can tell me
which
> movie this is paraphrased from.)

Top Gun

[Jay Honeck]

>> Oh, my God. You'd have thought I had done a high speed pass, at over 400
>> knots, over Penny Benjamin's house. (Bonus points if you can tell me
> which
>> movie this is paraphrased from.)
>
> Top Gun

DING DING DING

We've got a winnah!

Now, double bonus points if you can quote the next line...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Joe Johnson]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:lc7kf.376656$084.80101@attbi_s22...

> Now, double bonus points if you can quote the next line...

You, a--hole, you're lucky to be here.

[Jay Honeck]

>> Now, double bonus points if you can quote the next line...
>
> You, a--hole, you're lucky to be here.

"Damn. This kid is good..."

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Burns]

Hey Ronald,
Back up, re read.
I said that it had recently been described TO ME like that (from a long time
CAP check pilot who actually advised against joining.... could be a local
situation). As far as my own tests, last count was 7 knowledge exams and 6
checkrides passed.

Jim

"Ronald Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> What are you talking about? There is a log for your time and write ups
ect.
> for the aircraft and that is it. If that is to much for you to understand
I
> question how you passed the PP ground school and written.
>
> Yes there are form in CAP much of the and test are online and I have not
seen
> one that was more than needing a little study work to complete or pass.
>
> Don't let this type of statement sway anyone's idea. Try it and see and
make
> your own long term decision.
>
> The training and testing is just like what a good volunteer fire
department
> would demand if you joined just different.
>
> Remember: "You volunteer your time, but once there you are a professional
and
> the training and commitment required to be professional is required".
>
> Ron Gardner
>
> Jim Burns wrote:
>
> > I recently heard it described as "requiring that you are a sadist for
> > paperwork. If you can't fill out your own 1040 each year nor enjoy
doing
> > it, imagine making it part of your pre-flight."
> > Jim
> >
> > "Rachel" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I've been doing a little research off and on for the past few months,
> > > but can't seem to find anyone who is actually involved.
> > >
> > > So - what's the story? Is it a good organization to get involved in?
>

[Ronald Gardner]

Was it PVT Benjamin?

Jay Honeck wrote:

> > Don't let this type of statement sway anyone's idea. Try it and see and
> > make
> > your own long term decision.
>
> Well, Ron, I haven't bothered to get flight certified, so I can't comment on
> that. But I recently drove our squadron van from its home at the airport,
> to our open house at the local armory -- a distance of about 5 blocks -- and
> back.
>
> In the dark I couldn't find the vehicle log. I figured "What's 10 blocks?"
> and left it at that.
>
> Oh, my God. You'd have thought I had done a high speed pass, at over 400
> knots, over Penny Benjamin's house. (Bonus points if you can tell me which
> movie this is paraphrased from.)
>
> Paperwork is a very CAP thing.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> CAP Senior Member, 2d Lt
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[Ronald Gardner]

Boy I was way off on this one :(

Jay Honeck wrote:

> >> Now, double bonus points if you can quote the next line...
> >
> > You, a--hole, you're lucky to be here.
>
> "Damn. This kid is good..."
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[Ronald Gardner]

The SAR training can be done in phases. Take the Scanner course first, this is the
back seat or spotter position. You learn the basic's of how a search is organized
and executed. Then train for the observer ( right seat) you spot out the right
side and run radio's and GPS. You can be doing flying at the same time and get a
form 5 (check ride) to allow you to fly CAP aircraft and with your hours also fly
cadet orientation flights (free rides for cadet using a training syllabus paid for
by CAP/USAF). Then you start mission pilot training which is where I am at, now I
am ready for the form 91 (mission pilot check ride) but I personally feel I need
more practice with the DF gear as ELT searches are a large part of the missions
flown, next are the GPS search patterns which you need to demonstrate proficiency
in. The biggest draw back here is that the training missions are usually twice or
if your lucky three time a year so you need to do some practice on your own to get
finished and I have both time and money limitations in doing that.

The written test for the form 5 is nothing more than a questionnaire on the
aircraft you will be flying with answers right out of the POH. And none of the SAR
online test have been hard if you take a few training sessions and download the
manuals to review.

Rachel wrote:

> Ronald Gardner wrote:
> > What are you talking about? There is a log for your time and write ups ect.
> > for the aircraft and that is it. If that is to much for you to understand I
> > question how you passed the PP ground school and written.
> >
> > Yes there are form in CAP much of the and test are online and I have not seen
> > one that was more than needing a little study work to complete or pass.
> >
> > Don't let this type of statement sway anyone's idea. Try it and see and make
> > your own long term decision.
> >
> > The training and testing is just like what a good volunteer fire department
> > would demand if you joined just different.
>
> How hard is the testing are we talking about? I haven't flown much in
> the past few years, and don't consider myself to be very proficient.
> The instructor who has been doing instrument work with me disagrees, but
> I don't want to even get into a situation where they tell me I'm not
> good enough, you know?

[Darrel Toepfer]

Ronald Gardner wrote:
> kgruber wrote:
>> "Rachel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I've been doing a little research off and on for the past few months, but
>>> can't seem to find anyone who is actually involved.
>>>
>>> So - what's the story? Is it a good organization to get involved in?
>
>> If you like to learn to march!
>
> 5 years never marched!

Over 20 years and never flew... #16040

Didn't kneaux these cards expired, Brookfield was National Commander
when I joined...