A taildragger incident today

[Peter R.]

I experienced a bit of unneeded excitement today while preparing to fly
home that I thought would be of interest here.

A 2,500 foot November grey ceiling hung over the uncontrolled western NY
airport as I unloaded my luggage from the rental vehicle parked next to my
aircraft on the ramp. Suddenly a golf cart screeched to a halt in front of
my airplane.

The cart's driver, a local flight instructor, yelled my name as he pointed
to the opposite end of the long runway.

"Look! Did you see that?" he asked me in a somewhat shaky voice.

I instantly followed his pointed finger and focused to the far end of the
airport. There, on the first third of the far runway, was a high wing,
single-engine aircraft that appeared to be sticking nose first into the
runway.

"Let's take your truck!" he yelled to me as he ran to the passenger side.

I haphazardly slammed my luggage door closed and hopped into the Ford
Explorer. As we sped down the parallel taxiway, the instructor used his
cell phone to call back to report the wreck to the airport office. He also
instructed the receptionist to use the radio to warn the airplane on final
for the opposite end of the same runway to go around. After he hung up, we
both remained quiet, silently contemplating the scene we were about to see.

As we arrived at the wreck, the pilot appeared from behind the upended
taildragger and it became apparent what happened. I parked the truck near
the airplane (but away from the tail) and both of us jumped out to check on
the pilot.

"I had landed and just touched the brake, and next thing I knew the
aircraft was on its nose," the 80 year-old pilot said as we approached him.
My heart went out to him at that moment as I could only imagine what he
must have been feeling.

"About time someone noticed," he then added. "I didn't think anyone was
coming."

Aviation fuel was leaking out of the right wing, splinters sprinkled the
runway from the shattered wooden prop, and a five-to-eight foot white
scrape marked the runway where the spinner had been pushed into the
asphalt.

Looking behind the aircraft on the runway surface, I spotted the twisted
gouges where each blade of the prop had struck the runway, as well as more
wood splinters. That sight reminded me of the wording of so many NTSB
accident reports.

By this time, another airport employee showed up in another golf cart with
a cellphone to his ear. He had been talking to the airport owner, who was
en route to the airport from somewhere off airport grounds. The airport
owner, who is also an FAA designated examiner, concluded that it was
prudent to move the aircraft since there were no injuries, fatalities, or
excessive aircraft damage and gave the approval to the airport employee.

With that, the four of us (including the pilot), carefully worked together
to lift the nose and lower the tail, righting the damaged aircraft. We
then pushed the sad bird along the runway to a nearby taxiway.

With the airport personal now handling the scene, I didn't see any more use
for my services so I took the truck back to the ramp and finished loading
my luggage. My heart suddenly began to beat much faster as the entire
scene replayed in my head.

At that moment the avionics tech at the airport walked by my aircraft and,
upon hearing the name of the accident pilot, told me that the pilot had
just purchased the used taildragger and was bringing it back to the airport
for the first time.

In all the excitement, I didn't have the opportunity to ask what type of
aircraft this was, but in looking at various pictures on the web tonight, I
*believe* the aircraft was a Stinson 108-3.

You pilots who have mastered these light taildraggers have my sincerest
respect.

--
Peter

[Flyingmonk]

>told me that the pilot had just purchased the used taildragger and was bringing it back to the airport for the first time.

That's so sad... the poor man finally bought the bird of his dreams
and... My heart goes out to him.

[Jay Honeck]

> "I had landed and just touched the brake, and next thing I knew the
> aircraft was on its nose," the 80 year-old pilot said as we approached
> him.

A sad story, Peter. Thanks for sharing it.

At the other end of the spectrum, the last few days we've had a couple
staying with us at the inn who just bought a brand, spanking new Maule.
They are well past 70, and we've had a great time hangar flying with them.

When their visit with us was over, we bid them adieu and drove them over to
the airport. 15 minutes after we dropped them off the old fella called us
back to come fetch them.

He had discovered that, after our recent 4-inch snowfall and subsequent icy
conditions, he was unable to walk out to his tail-dragger without falling.
This provided a sudden burst of realization that if he couldn't walk to his
taildragger because of the conditions, he probably shouldn't be flying it,
either.

That's a prudent way to fly a tail-dragger, IMHO. The man knew his
limitations, and thus they were forced to spend another night soaking in the
Red Baron Suite's hot tub.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Darrel Toepfer]

Peter R. wrote:

> In all the excitement, I didn't have the opportunity to ask what type of
> aircraft this was, but in looking at various pictures on the web tonight, I
> *believe* the aircraft was a Stinson 108-3.
>
> You pilots who have mastered these light taildraggers have my sincerest
> respect.

*I* wouldn't classify a Stationwagon as a "light taildragger"...

[[email protected]]

"Peter R." > wrote:
[snip story]
> You pilots who have mastered these light taildraggers
> have my sincerest respect.

Taildragger pilots have my sincere respect, too ...
From what I've heard, the biggest mistake one can make is to believe
they've "mastered" it.

[Jim Burns]

Hmm.... Hotel Californ... er Iowa City??? You can fly in, but you may never
leave!
Jim

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:JcZjf.588903$x96.563731@attbi_s72...
> > "I had landed and just touched the brake, and next thing I knew the
> > aircraft was on its nose," the 80 year-old pilot said as we approached
> > him.
>
> A sad story, Peter. Thanks for sharing it.
>
> At the other end of the spectrum, the last few days we've had a couple
> staying with us at the inn who just bought a brand, spanking new Maule.
> They are well past 70, and we've had a great time hangar flying with them.
>
> When their visit with us was over, we bid them adieu and drove them over
to
> the airport. 15 minutes after we dropped them off the old fella called us
> back to come fetch them.
>
> He had discovered that, after our recent 4-inch snowfall and subsequent
icy
> conditions, he was unable to walk out to his tail-dragger without falling.
> This provided a sudden burst of realization that if he couldn't walk to
his
> taildragger because of the conditions, he probably shouldn't be flying it,
> either.
>
> That's a prudent way to fly a tail-dragger, IMHO. The man knew his
> limitations, and thus they were forced to spend another night soaking in
the
> Red Baron Suite's hot tub.
>
> :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Peter R.]

Darrel Toepfer > wrote:

> *I* wouldn't classify a Stationwagon as a "light taildragger"...

What is a Stationwagon?

--
Peter

[Dave Stadt]

"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote in message
...
> Peter R. wrote:
>
> > In all the excitement, I didn't have the opportunity to ask what type of
> > aircraft this was, but in looking at various pictures on the web
tonight, I
> > *believe* the aircraft was a Stinson 108-3.
> >
> > You pilots who have mastered these light taildraggers have my sincerest
> > respect.
>
> *I* wouldn't classify a Stationwagon as a "light taildragger"...

It is a light taildragger. Think B17, DC3, etc. as heavy. A 108 will get
tossed around at will by wind and turbulence.

[Darkwing]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Hmm.... Hotel Californ... er Iowa City??? You can fly in, but you may
> never
> leave!
> Jim
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:JcZjf.588903$x96.563731@attbi_s72...
>> > "I had landed and just touched the brake, and next thing I knew the
>> > aircraft was on its nose," the 80 year-old pilot said as we approached
>> > him.
>>
>> A sad story, Peter. Thanks for sharing it.
>>
>> At the other end of the spectrum, the last few days we've had a couple
>> staying with us at the inn who just bought a brand, spanking new Maule.
>> They are well past 70, and we've had a great time hangar flying with
>> them.
>>
>> When their visit with us was over, we bid them adieu and drove them over
> to
>> the airport. 15 minutes after we dropped them off the old fella called
>> us
>> back to come fetch them.
>>
>> He had discovered that, after our recent 4-inch snowfall and subsequent
> icy
>> conditions, he was unable to walk out to his tail-dragger without
>> falling.
>> This provided a sudden burst of realization that if he couldn't walk to
> his
>> taildragger because of the conditions, he probably shouldn't be flying
>> it,
>> either.
>>
>> That's a prudent way to fly a tail-dragger, IMHO. The man knew his
>> limitations, and thus they were forced to spend another night soaking in
> the
>> Red Baron Suite's hot tub.
>>
>> :-)
>> --


What a great business model, guy pulls up in his plane on a cold night, just
get out the hose and ice the sucker up so bad he has to stay another night!

----------------------------------
DW

[George Patterson]

Peter R. wrote:

> What is a Stationwagon?

A type of Stinson.
http://homepage.mac.com/splons/sample1/

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:JcZjf.588903$x96.563731@attbi_s72...
>> "I had landed and just touched the brake, and next thing I knew the
>> aircraft was on its nose," the 80 year-old pilot said as we approached
>> him.
>
> A sad story, Peter. Thanks for sharing it.
>
> At the other end of the spectrum, the last few days we've had a couple
> staying with us at the inn who just bought a brand, spanking new Maule.
> They are well past 70, and we've had a great time hangar flying with them.
>
> When their visit with us was over, we bid them adieu and drove them over
> to the airport. 15 minutes after we dropped them off the old fella called
> us back to come fetch them.
>
> He had discovered that, after our recent 4-inch snowfall and subsequent
> icy conditions, he was unable to walk out to his tail-dragger without
> falling. This provided a sudden burst of realization that if he couldn't
> walk to his taildragger because of the conditions, he probably shouldn't
> be flying it, either.
>
> That's a prudent way to fly a tail-dragger, IMHO. The man knew his
> limitations, and thus they were forced to spend another night soaking in
> the Red Baron Suite's hot tub.

Boy......I thought I read that Innkeeper's Guide from cover to cover, but I
missed the part about starting a snow storm to get those rack cards changed
from check outs to stayovers!!!!!
:-)))))))))))))))))))
Dudley

[Jay Honeck]

>> That's a prudent way to fly a tail-dragger, IMHO. The man knew his
>> limitations, and thus they were forced to spend another night soaking in
>> the Red Baron Suite's hot tub.
>
> Boy......I thought I read that Innkeeper's Guide from cover to cover, but
> I missed the part about starting a snow storm to get those rack cards
> changed from check outs to stayovers!!!!!
> :-)))))))))))))))))))

Unfortunately, for the most part, winter weather works against us rather
than for us. An amazing number of pilots close their hangar doors at the
first snow, and don't open them again until spring.

Personally, I think the best flying is to be done in winter, so I don't get
it -- but to each, his own, I guess.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:uMhkf.591730$x96.357547@attbi_s72...
>>> That's a prudent way to fly a tail-dragger, IMHO. The man knew his
>>> limitations, and thus they were forced to spend another night soaking in
>>> the Red Baron Suite's hot tub.
>>
>> Boy......I thought I read that Innkeeper's Guide from cover to cover, but
>> I missed the part about starting a snow storm to get those rack cards
>> changed from check outs to stayovers!!!!!
>> :-)))))))))))))))))))
>
> Unfortunately, for the most part, winter weather works against us rather
> than for us. An amazing number of pilots close their hangar doors at the
> first snow, and don't open them again until spring.
>
> Personally, I think the best flying is to be done in winter, so I don't
> get it -- but to each, his own, I guess.

You're right about winter flying, especially for the VFR occasional pilot.
The air is usually clearer, more stable, and for those flying out of small
fields, there's even a "lift" bonus :-)
On the other side of the coin, there's the hassle of dealing with a thorough
preflight in a winter scenario; not quite so bad for the hangar folks, but a
real pain for the tie downers.
I keep forgetting how deeply you are tied in to fly in guests. Do you have
any walk in's at all Jay, or local business types renting rooms for business
meetings?
D

[ls]

wrote:
> "Peter R." > wrote:
> [snip story]
>
>>You pilots who have mastered these light taildraggers
>>have my sincerest respect.
>
>
> Taildragger pilots have my sincere respect, too ...
> From what I've heard, the biggest mistake one can make is to believe
> they've "mastered" it.

You said it.....
I fly a tailwheel airplane now, it's probably the most docile of the
tailwheel planes out there (a Kolb) and I've still been humbled several
times in it already.

Once was when turning around for a back taxi very early on. I swung it
around a bit too fast and well my 180 turned into a 360 instead ;).
Fortunately, I was pretty slow so I didn't go up on a wheel and drag a
wing tip. Whew.... That was early on when I still wasn't quite fully
cognizant of the "energy management" of the plane on the ground. The
fully castering wheel can really help this to happen if I carry too much
momentum into a sharp turn. Not anymore - I go nice and slow now, no
whipping the tail around ;)

Another time I got almost out of control on the takeoff roll. I let the
tail swing to left a little more than I had rudder for, then it went
back to the right a bit more. Because the plane is a high-wing pusher,
there's usually plenty of airflow over the tail from the prop blast to
allow me to null such things out, but this time it wasn't enough and I
knew if I didn't back off it it was going to ground loop. I pulled the
power back and got it straightened out.

Still, all that said, I had no idea that tailwheel could be so much fun
and such good rudder-pedal training. It's probably the funnest thing of
all the different stuff in aviation I've tried (funnest thing you can do
in a plane on the ground that is)......

LS
N646F

[Terry]

It seems to me, when I am flying my C140, that when landing the main
wheels touch down first, just like a tricyle geared airplane.

So we all land (except for those who like to touch the nose wheel
first) basically the same way.

It looks like the roll out is the only difference.

Terry



On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:09:34 -0700, wrote:

>"Peter R." > wrote:
>[snip story]
>> You pilots who have mastered these light taildraggers
>> have my sincerest respect.
>
>Taildragger pilots have my sincere respect, too ...
>From what I've heard, the biggest mistake one can make is to believe
>they've "mastered" it.

[John Gaquin]

"ls" > wrote in message news:YPikf.28260
>
> Another time I got almost out of control on the takeoff roll. I let the
> tail swing to left a little more than I had rudder for, then it went back
> to the right a bit more.

Here's a bit of the bizarro - in the DC3 you can steer on the takeoff roll
with reverse aileron. They're so big, they drag a lot. Hard left aileron
will cause the right aileron drag to pull you right. That big rudder is
usually enough, so you'd only have to augment if you were looking at the
puckerbrush.

[Cub Driver]

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 14:54:28 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
> wrote:

>You're right about winter flying, especially for the VFR occasional pilot.
>The air is usually clearer, more stable, and for those flying out of small
>fields, there's even a "lift" bonus :-)

In New Hampshire, I find that the weather is most often rainy/snowy or
clear+blustery, neither of them good for Cub flying. Then there are
the winter problems associated with a grass field: much of the time it
hasn't been plowed or is muddy. Finally, we aren't allowed to fly the
Cubs if the temp is under 20 deg F. Add them together and there aren't
many flying days from Dec 1 to Apr 1.

(To make matters worse, my roll of duct tape just got banned from the
airport. The port window on Zero Six Hotel drops two inches unless
taped up, and the starboard window/door has a half-inch gap toward the
back. I have been authorized to experiment with blue painter's tape.)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Flyingmonk]

What's the reason for the duct tape ban?

[Flyingmonk]

John Gaquin:

>Here's a bit of the bizarro - in the DC3 you can steer on the takeoff roll
>with reverse aileron. They're so big, they drag a lot. Hard left aileron
>will cause the right aileron drag to pull you right. That big rudder is
>usually enough, so you'd only have to augment if you were looking at the
>puckerbrush.

I love the DC3. Thanks for that additional info that I wasn't aware of.

[Dudley Henriques]

I can remember flying the J3 way back in the old days when I was learning to
fly. The wind used to come in between the upper and lower side panel and
freeze us to death. When you put carb heat on that old Cont. A65, it sounded
like it had quit.....I mean it really woke up a few pilots once in a while.
We'd have aerial bombing contests with the Cubs with balloons filled with
water dropped from 500 feet on the runway after we closed the field in the
evening. Spot landing contests in the Cub were fun. I bet someone I could
land ours width wise on the runway at new Castle Delaware. I won, but had to
split the five bucks with the tower guys who let me try it one afternoon
when the airport wasn't busy.
Night flying in the Cub wearing a miner's helmet with a battery light in the
front covered by some of my wife's Christmas wrapping paper that was
transparent red and flying the Cub all the way down the East Coast out to
Key West......throttling back and shouting to waving fishermen off the coast
on the way down there.
Of all that has transpired since, I think those days will remain as my most
treasured and personal, and certainly the most fun!
Dudley Henriques


"Cub Driver" <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 14:54:28 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
> > wrote:
>
>>You're right about winter flying, especially for the VFR occasional pilot.
>>The air is usually clearer, more stable, and for those flying out of small
>>fields, there's even a "lift" bonus :-)
>
> In New Hampshire, I find that the weather is most often rainy/snowy or
> clear+blustery, neither of them good for Cub flying. Then there are
> the winter problems associated with a grass field: much of the time it
> hasn't been plowed or is muddy. Finally, we aren't allowed to fly the
> Cubs if the temp is under 20 deg F. Add them together and there aren't
> many flying days from Dec 1 to Apr 1.
>
> (To make matters worse, my roll of duct tape just got banned from the
> airport. The port window on Zero Six Hotel drops two inches unless
> taped up, and the starboard window/door has a half-inch gap toward the
> back. I have been authorized to experiment with blue painter's tape.)
>
>
> -- all the best, Dan Ford
>
> email: usenet AT danford DOT net
>
> Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
> Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
> the blog: www.danford.net
> In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Saville]

Dudley Henriques wrote:


>>>You're right about winter flying, especially for the VFR occasional
>>>pilot. The air is usually clearer, more stable, and for those flying out
>>>of small fields, there's even a "lift" bonus :-)

There are other pluses and minuses as well - at least in New England (maybe
elsewhere as well). X-C pilotage is affected. On the one hand I find it
easier to detect railway and powerline trails when there's snow on the
ground. Finding lakes/ponds can sometimes be a little more challenging when
they are iced over and snow covered.

Gregg

[Jay Honeck]

> I keep forgetting how deeply you are tied in to fly in guests. Do you have
> any walk in's at all Jay, or local business types renting rooms for
> business meetings?

Actually, less than 5% of our business is from fly-in guests, Dudley. There
are just one heck of a lot more aviation enthusiasts (and regular, sane
people, too) driving nowadays than there are flying...

Heck, their money is green, too...

:-)

Obviously, that percentage is different at certain times of the year...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> There are other pluses and minuses as well - at least in New England
> (maybe
> elsewhere as well). X-C pilotage is affected. On the one hand I find it
> easier to detect railway and powerline trails when there's snow on the
> ground. Finding lakes/ponds can sometimes be a little more challenging
> when
> they are iced over and snow covered.

Wow, does that bring back memories. I had forgotten how hard it was to
navigate solely by pilotage in the winter...

I remember training in Wisconsin, in the winter, and being stunned by how
different everything looked in the snow. I had the devil of a time getting
my bearings!

I don't miss that one bit. Nowadays, winter or summer, we punch in four
digits, and we're on our way to...anywhere!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:8kPkf.381008$084.201150@attbi_s22...
>> I keep forgetting how deeply you are tied in to fly in guests. Do you
>> have any walk in's at all Jay, or local business types renting rooms for
>> business meetings?
>
> Actually, less than 5% of our business is from fly-in guests, Dudley.
> There are just one heck of a lot more aviation enthusiasts (and regular,
> sane people, too) driving nowadays than there are flying...
>
> Heck, their money is green, too...
>
> :-)
>
> Obviously, that percentage is different at certain times of the year...

So you have access from both directions (air and ground) which must be
great. Sounds like you have the best of both worlds going for you out there.
Of course not knowing the area all that well I have no way of knowing how
seasonal you are, and I see immediately what you're saying about winter
flying. I see you're thinking about sponsoring some sort of an air show.
Before you get in too deeply with that, you might want to sit down with the
FAA and just hash over the particulars. Things have changed a lot from the
old days when we used to have a local show at our field. Insurance and
lawyers have changed the climate quite a bit, and you want to really get a
handle on exactly what your personal responsibilities would be doing a show.
I remember one FBO who actually formed a separate corporation to handle a
show to isolate personal assets from the lawyers.
Check it out thoroughly with the FAA and see what they say anyway.
Just as a winter business thing, have you thought about an ad in
Trade-A-Plane sponsoring a fly in weekend at the hotel? Might create some
interest for those who need a slight "shove" to get out there and fire up
the ole' bird during the winter months.
Anyway, the best of luck with your airshow plans. I hope it all works out
for you.
Dudley

[Jay Honeck]

> So you have access from both directions (air and ground) which must be
> great. Sounds like you have the best of both worlds going for you out
> there.

We like to think so! Small hotels need more than one source of business,
especially in a non-tourist-trap area like Iowa.

> Of course not knowing the area all that well I have no way of knowing how
> seasonal you are

Well, we're basically full from May 1st to the last football game in
November. Then, it's like a light switch -- bang! We literally go from
running our a**es off, trying to keep up, to sitting in the lobby, staring
at each other, in the space of 24 hours.

The first couple of years I really freaked out when this happened, but now
I've come to realize that it's just the way it works. As our business has
grown, the slow times are getting less slow, however. Thankfully.

Although this is the time we get back to the remodeling of the theme suites.
We're still working on the Apollo Suite, the Cub Suite, the Oshkosh Suite,
and the Barnstormer Suite, as well as other various projects and upgrades.
Winter may be slower, but we keep busy!

> I see you're thinking about sponsoring some sort of an air show. I
> remember one FBO who actually formed a separate corporation to handle a
> show to isolate personal assets from the lawyers.

See www.BigKidsToyShow.com We (the group of organizers) have already
formed a separate 501(c)3 non-profit corporation, for the sole purpose of
putting on this show every year. We're still debating whether to add "air"
show acts, as opposed to just static displays of aircraft. I think the only
way we'll be able to make it work, since we're not charging admission, is to
have the acts sponsored by local businesses. Something like "The Red
Barons, brought to you by HvVee Foods" -- or something. We're meeting
tomorrow to discuss it further...

> Just as a winter business thing, have you thought about an ad in
> Trade-A-Plane sponsoring a fly in weekend at the hotel? Might create some
> interest for those who need a slight "shove" to get out there and fire up
> the ole' bird during the winter months.

Yeah, we've done this a couple of times with the Cherokee Pilots
Association. Once it worked well, once it was wiped out by winter weather.
It's a TON of work to have it all go down the tubes like that...but that's
the game, isn't it?

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dudley Henriques]

That Children's Museum is a wonderful idea and I wish you tons of luck with
it.
I know what you mean about the bottom falling out on a seasonal basis. I
used to push a Cessna 337 for a friend of mine who owned several motels and
hotels in Wildwood Crest New Jersey when I could break away from my other
aviation related activities. Naturally, his season ended on Labor Day, but
he had regulars who booked a week or two after that. For all practical
purposes, the day after Labor Day in Wildwood Crest, you could stand on
Atlantic Avenue on one end of town and shout all the way to the other end
and someone there could hear you. Flying him down there in the winter was
actually eerie. The place was cold and sealed up. I have expected tumbleweed
to come flying down the street. I mean it was deserted!!!
Of course, your place isn't reliant on vacation booking only so God willing,
you'll never know what that feels like :-)
Just a shot on performers, but I know Vlado is free during the winter. I
guess you've already thought of that anyway.
I was paid by the local Chamber of Commerce at some of my shows.
I think your idea of local businessmen as sponsors might generate some
interest, especially if the local business is connected nationally or
internationally. Sometimes a parent company will shell out some money to
local outlets on their advertising budget.
Knowing your head for business, I'm sure you're up and running on all of
this anyway.
Dudley

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:zeQkf.381087$084.289265@attbi_s22...
>> So you have access from both directions (air and ground) which must be
>> great. Sounds like you have the best of both worlds going for you out
>> there.
>
> We like to think so! Small hotels need more than one source of business,
> especially in a non-tourist-trap area like Iowa.
>
>> Of course not knowing the area all that well I have no way of knowing how
>> seasonal you are
>
> Well, we're basically full from May 1st to the last football game in
> November. Then, it's like a light switch -- bang! We literally go from
> running our a**es off, trying to keep up, to sitting in the lobby, staring
> at each other, in the space of 24 hours.
>
> The first couple of years I really freaked out when this happened, but now
> I've come to realize that it's just the way it works. As our business
> has grown, the slow times are getting less slow, however. Thankfully.
>
> Although this is the time we get back to the remodeling of the theme
> suites. We're still working on the Apollo Suite, the Cub Suite, the
> Oshkosh Suite, and the Barnstormer Suite, as well as other various
> projects and upgrades. Winter may be slower, but we keep busy!
>
>> I see you're thinking about sponsoring some sort of an air show. I
>> remember one FBO who actually formed a separate corporation to handle a
>> show to isolate personal assets from the lawyers.
>
> See www.BigKidsToyShow.com We (the group of organizers) have already
> formed a separate 501(c)3 non-profit corporation, for the sole purpose of
> putting on this show every year. We're still debating whether to add
> "air" show acts, as opposed to just static displays of aircraft. I think
> the only way we'll be able to make it work, since we're not charging
> admission, is to have the acts sponsored by local businesses. Something
> like "The Red Barons, brought to you by HvVee Foods" -- or something.
> We're meeting tomorrow to discuss it further...
>
>> Just as a winter business thing, have you thought about an ad in
>> Trade-A-Plane sponsoring a fly in weekend at the hotel? Might create some
>> interest for those who need a slight "shove" to get out there and fire up
>> the ole' bird during the winter months.
>
> Yeah, we've done this a couple of times with the Cherokee Pilots
> Association. Once it worked well, once it was wiped out by winter
> weather. It's a TON of work to have it all go down the tubes like
> that...but that's the game, isn't it?
>
> :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Montblack]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
> Something like "The Red Barons, brought to you by HvVee Foods" -- or
> something. We're meeting tomorrow to discuss it further...


When we last saw the Red Baron Pizza Squadron it was brought to us by ...Red
Baron Pizza :-)

They had their own (Squadron) pizza truck on the ramp and were selling hot
slices of pizza from it.

http://www.redbaron.com/publish/squadron_schedule.htm


Montblack

[N93332]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:zeQkf.381087$084.289265@attbi_s22...
>
> See www.BigKidsToyShow.com We (the group of organizers) have already
> formed a separate 501(c)3 non-profit corporation, for the sole purpose of
> putting on this show every year. We're still debating whether to add
> "air" show acts, as opposed to just static displays of aircraft. I think
> the only way we'll be able to make it work, since we're not charging
> admission, is to have the acts sponsored by local businesses. Something
> like "The Red Barons, brought to you by HvVee Foods" -- or something.
> We're meeting tomorrow to discuss it further...

Hy-Vee would probably be a good sponsor. Check with some of the other
'local' companies like Casey's, Menard's, Pamida, etc., to see if they'd
help to sponsor also. They'd probably like some advertising...

-Greg B.

[Flyingmonk]

Jay Honeck:

> Nowadays, winter or summer, we punch in four
>digits, and we're on our way to...anywhere!

Hope you have backup plans for when the GPS is toast... :<)

[Flyingmonk]

Montblack wrote:
>When we last saw the Red Baron Pizza Squadron it was brought to us by ...Red
>Baron Pizza :-)

>They had their own (Squadron) pizza truck on the ramp and were selling hot
>slices of pizza from it.

>http://www.redbaron.com/publish/squadron_schedule.htm

>Montblack

Kewl.....

[Cub Driver]

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 05:40:38 -0500, Cub Driver <usenet AT danford DOT
net> wrote:

>Then there are
>the winter problems associated with a grass field: much of the time it
>hasn't been plowed or is muddy.

Or icy! One I came around the racetrack loop to find Bonnie the CFI
ice-skating in the plowed area between the taxiway part of the
racetrack and the gas pump.

At the north end of the racetrack, the ground drops away a little. At
normal taxi speed, the Cub wanted to sideslip into the boundary fence.
I'd switch to left magneto, since the engine ran slower in that
position, in order to get around that turn.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On 4 Dec 2005 06:06:50 -0800, "Flyingmonk" > wrote:

>What's the reason for the duct tape ban?

Glue sticks to the fabric or metal, makes it tough to paint. So sez
George, and what George says, we do.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Flyingmonk]

George who? Surely not George Jr.? Hehehe...

[Jay Honeck]

>> Nowadays, winter or summer, we punch in four
>>digits, and we're on our way to...anywhere!
>
> Hope you have backup plans for when the GPS is toast... :<)

Yep. It's called a second GPS on the co-pilot's yoke! :-)

Of course, we could always turn on those VOR thingies, or maybe even power
up the old DME...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Flyingmonk]

>Yep. It's called a second GPS on the co-pilot's yoke! :-)

>Of course, we could always turn on those VOR thingies, or maybe even power
>up the old DME...

>;-)

Damn Jay, some of us are still saving up for our FIRST GPS. :<)

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:doYkf.603648$_o.185200@attbi_s71...
>>> Nowadays, winter or summer, we punch in four
>>>digits, and we're on our way to...anywhere!
>>
>> Hope you have backup plans for when the GPS is toast... :<)
>
> Yep. It's called a second GPS on the co-pilot's yoke! :-)
>
> Of course, we could always turn on those VOR thingies, or maybe even power
> up the old DME...

..........................followed immediately by a muffled scream as the
pilot hears this from ATC;
"Radar service terminated. You are cleared for the ADF approach on 24."
:-)
Dudley

[Morgans]

"Cub Driver" <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in message
...
> On 4 Dec 2005 06:06:50 -0800, "Flyingmonk" > wrote:
>
> >What's the reason for the duct tape ban?
>
> Glue sticks to the fabric or metal, makes it tough to paint. So sez
> George, and what George says, we do.

Cigarette lighter fluid (naphtha) takes duct tape sticky off pretty good.
--
Jim in NC

[Steven Barnes]

On a VFR day with a safety pilot, I tried an NDB approach at a nearby
airport using my (gasp) handheld GPS. Flew the full procedure better than I
could have with just an ADF.
Legal? No. But interesting to have in your hip pocket of all other options
close.



"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:doYkf.603648$_o.185200@attbi_s71...
> >>> Nowadays, winter or summer, we punch in four
> >>>digits, and we're on our way to...anywhere!
> >>
> >> Hope you have backup plans for when the GPS is toast... :<)
> >
> > Yep. It's called a second GPS on the co-pilot's yoke! :-)
> >
> > Of course, we could always turn on those VOR thingies, or maybe even
power
> > up the old DME...
>
> .........................followed immediately by a muffled scream as the
> pilot hears this from ATC;
> "Radar service terminated. You are cleared for the ADF approach on 24."
> :-)
> Dudley
>
>

[Darrel Toepfer]

Peter R. wrote:
> Darrel Toepfer wrote:
>
>> *I* wouldn't classify a Stationwagon as a "light taildragger"...
>
> What is a Stationwagon?

Stinson 108 series, 1, 2, 3...

Part you snipped that I quoted of your post:

"I *believe* the aircraft was a Stinson 108-3. You pilots who have
mastered these light taildraggers have my sincerest respect."

[Darrel Toepfer]

Dave Stadt wrote:
> "Darrel Toepfer" wrote in message

>> *I* wouldn't classify a Stationwagon as a "light taildragger"...
>
> It is a light taildragger. Think B17, DC3, etc. as heavy. A 108 will get
> tossed around at will by wind and turbulence.

When compared to that I would agree that its "light"... Its "heavy"er
compared to a Kitfox, Cub, Taylorcraft, Tailwind, etc...

I've admired them from outside the cockpit, haven't rode in one yet,
nearly bought one though, missed it by 24 hours...

[Dudley Henriques]

I'm a firm believer in reduncency :-)
Dudley Henriques


"Steven Barnes" > wrote in message
m...
> On a VFR day with a safety pilot, I tried an NDB approach at a nearby
> airport using my (gasp) handheld GPS. Flew the full procedure better than
> I
> could have with just an ADF.
> Legal? No. But interesting to have in your hip pocket of all other options
> close.
>
>
>
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>>
>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>> news:doYkf.603648$_o.185200@attbi_s71...
>> >>> Nowadays, winter or summer, we punch in four
>> >>>digits, and we're on our way to...anywhere!
>> >>
>> >> Hope you have backup plans for when the GPS is toast... :<)
>> >
>> > Yep. It's called a second GPS on the co-pilot's yoke! :-)
>> >
>> > Of course, we could always turn on those VOR thingies, or maybe even
> power
>> > up the old DME...
>>
>> .........................followed immediately by a muffled scream as the
>> pilot hears this from ATC;
>> "Radar service terminated. You are cleared for the ADF approach on 24."
>> :-)
>> Dudley
>>
>>
>
>

[Darrel Toepfer]

Flyingmonk wrote:
> Jay Honeck:
>
>> Nowadays, winter or summer, we punch in four
>> digits, and we're on our way to...anywhere!
>
> Hope you have backup plans for when the GPS is toast... :<)

Or for going to 3 digit identifiers... (he has 2 or 3 gps/s)

[Cub Driver]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:20:25 -0500, "Morgans" >
wrote:

>> Glue sticks to the fabric or metal, makes it tough to paint. So sez
>> George, and what George says, we do.
>
>Cigarette lighter fluid (naphtha) takes duct tape sticky off pretty good.
>--

I will report back on the functionality of blue painter's masking tape
:)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[zatatime]

On 4 Dec 2005 22:45:23 -0800, "Flyingmonk" >
wrote:

>Jay Honeck:
>
>> Nowadays, winter or summer, we punch in four
>>digits, and we're on our way to...anywhere!
>
>Hope you have backup plans for when the GPS is toast... :<)


You read my mind.

z

[zatatime]

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:45:29 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>>> Nowadays, winter or summer, we punch in four
>>>digits, and we're on our way to...anywhere!
>>
>> Hope you have backup plans for when the GPS is toast... :<)
>
>Yep. It's called a second GPS on the co-pilot's yoke! :-)
>
>Of course, we could always turn on those VOR thingies, or maybe even power
>up the old DME...

....and for a complete electrical failure?

z

[Jay Honeck]

> ...and for a complete electrical failure?

That Lowrance GPS runs on alkaline batteries.

Oh, and I suppose we could always refer to the sectional chart, in a
pinch...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans]

"Cub Driver" <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote

> I will report back on the functionality of blue painter's masking tape
> :)

My observations, from using it for...<gasp>...painting----
Doesn't stick for crap to anything, and when you *do* get it to stick, if
you leave it too long, it still leaves some mess, and is brittle as it comes
off.

I hope it works for your application. ;-)
--
Jim in NC

[Dave]

Ahhhh...

We carry 3... :) not by design, it kinda just happened... :)

A portable Garmin (more suitable for hikers)

A IIMorow came with the airplane, (yoke mounted)

The honey however is the Lowrance 2000C (we kept it when we sold
the Cessna)

Santa bringing the SSD with the terrain.. :)

Dave


On 5 Dec 2005 06:52:01 -0800, "Flyingmonk" > wrote:

>>Yep. It's called a second GPS on the co-pilot's yoke! :-)
>
>>Of course, we could always turn on those VOR thingies, or maybe even power
>>up the old DME...
>
>>;-)
>
>Damn Jay, some of us are still saving up for our FIRST GPS. :<)

[Jack]

Darrel Toepfer wrote:

> *I* wouldn't classify a Stationwagon as a "light taildragger"...

Compared to what? A Cub, a Beech 18, or a DC-3?


Jack