Light Pillars in Minnesota

[Montblack]

We had 'light pillars' last night all around the Twin Cities.
VERY-VERY-COOL!!

<http://wcco.com/slideshows/local_slideshow_337220001/view?slide=1>

<http://wcco.com/slideshows/local_slideshow_337220001/view?slide=5>

If you've never seen them, they are like a ground based localized version of
the Northern Lights - only they're all around you.

It looks like 1,000 search lights all pointing straight up to the heavens.
The pictures on the TV website DO NOT do the view justice. And colors too.
Simply beautiful.

Why, on nights like these, the ground source light doesn't diffuse more as
it goes up is beyond me - as you can see in the links, pillars of light are
formed ...somehow??


Montblack
In my lifetime I've seen light pillars fill the night sky - twice now.

[Jim Burns]

It's the Bat-Light, Boywonder!

Too cool! Thanks,
Jim

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> We had 'light pillars' last night all around the Twin Cities.
> VERY-VERY-COOL!!
>
> <http://wcco.com/slideshows/local_slideshow_337220001/view?slide=1>
>
> <http://wcco.com/slideshows/local_slideshow_337220001/view?slide=5>
>
> If you've never seen them, they are like a ground based localized version
of
> the Northern Lights - only they're all around you.
>
> It looks like 1,000 search lights all pointing straight up to the heavens.
> The pictures on the TV website DO NOT do the view justice. And colors too.
> Simply beautiful.
>
> Why, on nights like these, the ground source light doesn't diffuse more as
> it goes up is beyond me - as you can see in the links, pillars of light
are
> formed ...somehow??
>
>
> Montblack
> In my lifetime I've seen light pillars fill the night sky - twice now.
>

[Jay Honeck]

> It's the Bat-Light, Boywonder!

God, it's scary to know that someone else is as warped as me. That was *my*
first thought, too!

So what, exactly, causes this phenomenon?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[N93332]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:EgNkf.380753$084.324817@attbi_s22...
>> It's the Bat-Light, Boywonder!
>
> God, it's scary to know that someone else is as warped as me. That was
> *my* first thought, too!
>
> So what, exactly, causes this phenomenon?

From http://wcco.com/weathernews/local_story_337230308.html:
Light pillars are formed when ice crystals in the sky refract the light from
ground light sources. When enough of the crystals align, pillars of light
appear in the sky.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020902.html

-Greg B.

[Morgans]

> > It's the Bat-Light, Boywonder!
>
> God, it's scary to know that someone else is as warped as me. That was
*my*
> first thought, too!
>
> So what, exactly, causes this phenomenon?

A city council (or business) with some money to spend, renting spotlights?
--
Jim in NC

[Montblack]

>> So what, exactly, causes this phenomenon?

("Morgans" wrote)
> A city council (or business) with some money to spend, renting spotlights?


I've seen the local skating rink light pillars as a kid - I remember those.
But to have the whole night sky filled with what look the Northern Lights,
along with rows upon rows of colorful light pillars, in any direction you
look - that's pretty rare ...for me anyway.

<http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020902.html>

<http://www.sundog.clara.co.uk/halo/lpil.htm>

<http://www.photon-echoes.com/pillars.htm>


Montblack
Who, last night, forgot he now owns a digital camera. Doh!

[Morgans]

"Montblack" > wrote

> I've seen the local skating rink light pillars as a kid - I remember
those.
> But to have the whole night sky filled with what look the Northern Lights,
> along with rows upon rows of colorful light pillars, in any direction you
> look - that's pretty rare ...for me anyway.

Cool! I had never heard of this type of phenomena before. I'm guessing
that it takes pretty cold, and relatively rare conditions.

In Ohio, (where I grew up) when it was snowing, the ceilings were usually
low, and the temps were usually not far below freezing. Not the right
conditions, I suppose.
--
Jim in NC

[Dave Stadt]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Montblack" > wrote
>
> > I've seen the local skating rink light pillars as a kid - I remember
> those.
> > But to have the whole night sky filled with what look the Northern
Lights,
> > along with rows upon rows of colorful light pillars, in any direction
you
> > look - that's pretty rare ...for me anyway.
>
> Cool! I had never heard of this type of phenomena before. I'm guessing
> that it takes pretty cold, and relatively rare conditions.
>
> In Ohio, (where I grew up) when it was snowing, the ceilings were usually
> low, and the temps were usually not far below freezing.

Ice crystals and snow are totally different. In Northern IL today we had
clear blue skies with ice crystals falling. You don't see snow in those
conditions. You typically see ice crystals when it is very clear and very
cold.

>Not the right
> conditions, I suppose.
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[Darrel Toepfer]

Morgans wrote:
>>> It's the Bat-Light, Boywonder!
>> God, it's scary to know that someone else is as warped as me. That was
> *my*
>> first thought, too!
>>
>> So what, exactly, causes this phenomenon?
>
> A city council (or business) with some money to spend, renting spotlights?

Tron (1982)
http://imdb.com/title/tt0084827

[Randy Aldous]

>>We had 'light pillars' last night all around the Twin Cities.
VERY-VERY-COOL!!

Noticed them Saturday night, also coming from cars obscured by trees
and a curve in the highway. This was between Crosby and Brainerd
(Minnesota) - there was just a hint of snow in the air. Perhaps the
light is reflected by the small, shiny snow flakes, moving slowly in
the air. If I recall, the winds were calm and it was in or near
single-digit temps. Think of tiny mirrors.

I concur, very cool. Didn't see much in town, though. Could have just
been the angle and background.

Randy

[Dean A. Scott]

>> So what, exactly, causes this phenomenon?

http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/eyes/pillars.htm
http://www.sundog.clara.co.uk/halo/lpil.htm

Plate ice crystals, which are also responsible for sundogs.

Here's a wicked 'sundog' with ALL the possible reflection
and refraction patterns possible. A real photo taken at
the southpole.

http://www.polar.org/antsun/oldissues2001-2002/2001_1230/images/Polesundog.jpg




Dean A. Scott, mfa
---------------------------------------
School of Visual Art and Design
southern adventist university
---------------------------------------
http://www.southern.edu/~dascott

[Darrel Toepfer]

Morgans wrote:

>> Tron (1982)
>> http://imdb.com/title/tt0084827
>
> OK, I'll bite. What is the connection of the light pillars to Tron?

Teleportation/communication links, ie. I/O Towers. They looked like
"light pillars"...

Gateways to the users:
http://www.tron-sector.com/gallery/show.aspx?id=599
http://www.tron-sector.com/gallery/show.aspx?id=382

MCP for example:
http://www.tron-sector.com/gallery/show.aspx?id=1192

A sequel is in the works and the game Tron 2.0:
http://www.tron-sector.com/gallery/show.aspx?id=2161
http://www.tron-sector.com/gallery/show.aspx?id=85

[Morgans]

"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote

> Tron (1982)
> http://imdb.com/title/tt0084827

OK, I'll bite. What is the connection of the light pillars to Tron?
--
Jim in NC

[JKimmel]

Brainerd? Isn't that near Lake Woebegone?

Randy Aldous wrote:
>>>We had 'light pillars' last night all around the Twin Cities.
>
> VERY-VERY-COOL!!
>
> Noticed them Saturday night, also coming from cars obscured by trees
> and a curve in the highway. This was between Crosby and Brainerd
> (Minnesota) - there was just a hint of snow in the air. Perhaps the
> light is reflected by the small, shiny snow flakes, moving slowly in
> the air. If I recall, the winds were calm and it was in or near
> single-digit temps. Think of tiny mirrors.
>
> I concur, very cool. Didn't see much in town, though. Could have just
> been the angle and background.
>
> Randy
>


--
J Kimmel

www.metalinnovations.com

"Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." - When you have
their full attention in your grip, their hearts and minds will follow.

[Montblack]

("JKimmel" wrote)
> Brainerd? Isn't that near Lake Woebegone?


Brainerd is a little north of Lake Wobegon...
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0140131612/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-9504985-9341603#reader-link>

....which is just east of Staggerford.
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0345333756/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-9504985-9341603#reader-link>

Both books are fun. Staggerford series is very good.


Montblack

[Darrel Toepfer]

Montblack wrote:
> ("JKimmel" wrote)
>> Brainerd? Isn't that near Lake Woebegone?
>
>
> Brainerd is a little north of Lake Wobegon...
> <http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0140131612/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-9504985-9341603#reader-link>
>
>
> ...which is just east of Staggerford.
> <http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0345333756/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-9504985-9341603#reader-link>
>
>
> Both books are fun. Staggerford series is very good.

Fargo (1996)
http://imdb.com/title/tt0116282

Made mention of Brainerd...

[Mike Beede]

In article om>,
"Randy Aldous" > wrote:

> >>We had 'light pillars' last night all around the Twin Cities.
> VERY-VERY-COOL!!
>
> Noticed them Saturday night, also coming from cars obscured by trees
> and a curve in the highway. This was between Crosby and Brainerd
> (Minnesota) - there was just a hint of snow in the air. Perhaps the
> light is reflected by the small, shiny snow flakes, moving slowly in
> the air. If I recall, the winds were calm and it was in or near
> single-digit temps. Think of tiny mirrors.
>
> I concur, very cool. Didn't see much in town, though. Could have just
> been the angle and background.

They were very apparent from Fridley on into North Minneapolis.
I noticed that even lights that I couldn't see directly would
do it, but only the white lights (for instance ones in the
railroad yards). Sodium lights didn't seem to do it.

I'm glad someone posted about it--I was wondering what caused
it too. It was around 10 degrees or so--not what I'd think of
as "really cold"--so there must be something more to it than
just temps and a light snow.

Mike Beede

[Randy Aldous]

>Fargo (1996)
>http://imdb.com/title/tt0116282

>Made mention of Brainerd...

Was actually set in Brainerd. They filmed a big police raid scene just
down the block from my house. Brainerd PD was even part of it.
Unfortunatly, we had a winter with very little snow and they had to
relocate to near Fargo, if memory serves. The story was still set here
though.

Funny thing, one of the primary characters, the Sheriff, was a woman
and was pregant in the story. The real sheriff at the time, Frank Ball,
had a hard time convincing some media folks from out of town, who would
call him, that he was the sheriff and no, he wasn't pregnant.

Pretty good flick. Although, we all don't talk like that (well, ok,
maybe just a little...sometimes)

Randy

[Ron Wanttaja]

On 6 Dec 2005 10:35:48 -0800, "Randy Aldous" > wrote:

>>Fargo (1996)
>>http://imdb.com/title/tt0116282
>
>Pretty good flick. Although, we all don't talk like that (well, ok,
>maybe just a little...sometimes)

Ha!

I grew up in Fargo (Fargo South HS, NDSU). When the movie came out, I was
practically rolling in the aisles whenever the characters spoke. Yes, it's
exaggerated a bit, but the accents are very much like that. They caught it very
nicely.

My wife says when I call home to talk to my parents, my Norwegian accent comes
back. Ya, sure....

Ron "Uf da!" Wanttaja

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Ron Wanttaja > wrote:

> On 6 Dec 2005 10:35:48 -0800, "Randy Aldous" > wrote:
>
> >>Fargo (1996)
> >>http://imdb.com/title/tt0116282
> >
> >Pretty good flick. Although, we all don't talk like that (well, ok,
> >maybe just a little...sometimes)
>
> Ha!
>
> I grew up in Fargo (Fargo South HS, NDSU). When the movie came out, I was
> practically rolling in the aisles whenever the characters spoke. Yes, it's
> exaggerated a bit, but the accents are very much like that. They caught it
> very
> nicely.
>
> My wife says when I call home to talk to my parents, my Norwegian accent
> comes
> back. Ya, sure....
>
> Ron "Uf da!" Wanttaja

My wife (who took a few theater courses) observed that it appeared that
the whole cast had the same voice coach.

--
Remve "_" from email to reply to me personally.

[Richard Isakson]

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote ...

> I grew up in Fargo (Fargo South HS, NDSU). When the movie came out, I was
> practically rolling in the aisles whenever the characters spoke. Yes,
it's
> exaggerated a bit, but the accents are very much like that. They caught
it very
> nicely.
>
> My wife says when I call home to talk to my parents, my Norwegian accent
comes
> back. Ya, sure....

Ron,

My grandfather was born and in Brainerd in 1895. He grew up there and spoke
only Swedish until he was 13.

Rich

[jmk]

Interesting. I always understood that you could get a sundog (or
moondog, for that matter) ANYTIME there was a major occluded front with
enough temperature differentiation - and the sun at the right angle, of
course (even well below the horizon). The interface between the two
different atmospheric densities produce a mirror (as does any similar
sharp density differential - such as between air and water), reflecting
the image of the sun or moon. However, the source you give seems to
credit ONLY the plate ice crystals for this (and for most everything
else <G>).

jmk

[Dean A. Scott]

> I always understood that you could get a sundog (or moondog,... between...
> two different atmospheric densities...

It's not the densities that create the refraction of light as the
densities bwtn two air masses is not much more than 0.05 index units.
Refraction typically needs at least a good 0.2 index difference to be
visible. Air is 1.0, glass 1.4 and up, water 1.3, etc. It's the
environment they create, allowing plate and barrel ice crystals to
form... typically associated with cirrus and cirro-stratus.

> the source you give seems to credit ONLY the plate ice crystals
> for this (and for most everything else <G>).

They're the scientists and weather experts. If air densities played
a noticable part, I'm sure mention and explanations would've been
provided.

Not discounting your theory or understanding, though. It's probably
possible as refraction at ground elevations via thermal (density)
turbulence creates heat shimmer and inversion createss mirages. Apply
that to a much larger area even in the rarified conditions at 40 to 80
thousand feet and I bet some sort of slight distortion could be had.





Dean A. Scott, mfa
---------------------------------------
School of Visual Art and Design
southern adventist university
---------------------------------------
http://www.southern.edu/~dascott

[wright1902glider]

I've seen some wierd weather here in Colorado in the past few months,
but nothing like that! I'll ave to start watching. BTW, now that I'm
living between Denver and the rockies, I;ll have to post a few pix of
the incredible rotors we have. It'll snow in the mountians 10 miles
from here, and the black wall will come right to the edge of the
foothills and then just stop. Not an elevation thing, just a massive
rotor.

Harry

[Morgans]

"wright1902glider" > wrote
> I;ll have to post a few pix of
> the incredible rotors we have. It'll snow in the mountians 10 miles
> from here, and the black wall will come right to the edge of the
> foothills and then just stop. Not an elevation thing, just a massive
> rotor.

Cool! Post away! Just links, if possible. (of course) ;-)
--
Jim in NC

[Bob Chilcoat]

Yah sure.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Randy Aldous" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> >Fargo (1996)
>>http://imdb.com/title/tt0116282
> Pretty good flick. Although, we all don't talk like that (well, ok,
> maybe just a little...sometimes)
>