Heating the hanger

[Gig 601XL Builder]

What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
when it is 30-40 outside.

Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though including
an unused 220 connection.

To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
area.

Gig

[Blanche]

One of those propane blasters?

[Kobra]

> What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
> doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
> when it is 30-40 outside.
>

How about one of those infra-red heaters. Instead of heating the whole
hangar and losing it in the ceiling, just heat yourself and what you're
working on. Like the ones in Home Depot's entrance.

Kobra

[Paul kgyy]

There used to be kerosene (JP4?) heaters that just required electricity
and generated huge amounts of heat. Don't know if those exist any
more, but check ebay.

[Dave Stadt]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
> What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
> doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
> when it is 30-40 outside.
>
> Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though
including
> an unused 220 connection.
>
> To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
> area.
>
> Gig

Can you have a couple of hundred gallon propane tank installed? If so you
could install a unit heater. Propane should be quite a bit cheaper than
electric. A couple of ceiling fans will also help to push the heat back
down.

[Jon Kraus]

How about one of these to use up that idle 220 volt connection.

http://www.heatersunlimited.com/item29471.ctlg

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ


Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
> doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
> when it is 30-40 outside.
>
> Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though including
> an unused 220 connection.
>
> To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
> area.
>
> Gig
>
>

[Jim Burns]

Buy some rectangular duct work and lay it along one side of the hanger. Put
several exhaust vents in it. Then using the 220AC, buy some electric duct
heaters, a thermostat, a relay and a fan. Do it yourself forced air. Maybe
a lot of work, but it's not fixed to the building (I assume you rent) and
it's a contained system that should be fairly fire proof. The thermostat
let's you set it and forget it. When you're in the hanger, you can also aim
a propane or kerosene heater towards the fan and get extra heat out of it.

We've got natural gas heat in our hanger, and it is terribly expensive to
maintain 40 degrees here in WI so we just use it to warm up the hanger when
we have work to do.

Jim

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
> What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
> doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
> when it is 30-40 outside.
>
> Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though
including
> an unused 220 connection.
>
> To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
> area.
>
> Gig
>
>

[Jon Kraus]

He didn't say that he WASN'T rich... :-)

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
443H @ TYQ

Jim Burns wrote:

> Dang! $750?? How about finding an old oven, take the door off, and cut a
> hole in the back for a fan?? I swear, in "self cleaning" mode, we could
> heat our house with ours. For that matter, what about an old clothes dryer?
>
> Jim
>
> "Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>How about one of these to use up that idle 220 volt connection.
>>
>>http://www.heatersunlimited.com/item29471.ctlg
>>
>>Jon Kraus
>>'79 Mooney 201
>>4443H @ TYQ
>>
>>
>>Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>>
>>>What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
>>>doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
>>>when it is 30-40 outside.
>>>
>>>Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though
>
> including
>
>>>an unused 220 connection.
>>>
>>>To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
>>>area.
>>>
>>>Gig
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[Jim Burns]

Dang! $750?? How about finding an old oven, take the door off, and cut a
hole in the back for a fan?? I swear, in "self cleaning" mode, we could
heat our house with ours. For that matter, what about an old clothes dryer?

Jim

"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
...
> How about one of these to use up that idle 220 volt connection.
>
> http://www.heatersunlimited.com/item29471.ctlg
>
> Jon Kraus
> '79 Mooney 201
> 4443H @ TYQ
>
>
> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> > What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
> > doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
> > when it is 30-40 outside.
> >
> > Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though
including
> > an unused 220 connection.
> >
> > To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
> > area.
> >
> > Gig
> >
> >
>

[Michelle P]

Kerosene gives me a headache.
Better off with a construction site heater.
Michelle

Paul kgyy wrote:

>There used to be kerosene (JP4?) heaters that just required electricity
>and generated huge amounts of heat. Don't know if those exist any
>more, but check ebay.
>
>
>

[john smith]

In article >,
"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:

> www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Too bad the floor is already poured.
The best hangar heating is via a heated floor.
You plumb it before you pour and connect it to a boiler.
Makes it much more comfortable on your feet and legs while working on
the plane during the cold months and keeps the heat out of the rafters.

[Mike Rapoport]

This is going to be really expensive. The cost to heat my 80x80 insulated
hanger to about 50F is over $500 a month with natural gas (at last years
prices which have doubled). I try to keep the temp just above freezing and
only turn up the heat if I am going to be working on the Moose all day.

Mike
MU-2


"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
> What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
> doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
> when it is 30-40 outside.
>
> Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though
> including an unused 220 connection.
>
> To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
> area.
>
> Gig
>

[Montblack]

("john smith" wrote)
> Makes it much more comfortable on your feet and legs while working on the
> plane during the cold months and keeps the heat out of the rafters.


Floor heat is afraid of heights? :-)


Montblack

[George Patterson]

Blanche wrote:
> One of those propane blasters?

Propane puts out a lot of moisture when it burns.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Roger]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:02:32 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
<wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:

>What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
>doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
>when it is 30-40 outside.
>
30 to 40 outside... we won't see that for highs for at least 4 more
months so I'm assuming you are in the south.

In most places, electric heat is *expensive*.

Do you want to raise the whole area by 15 to 20 degrees or just one or
two work areas. If the latter you can put up some banks of 150 to 250
watt IR lamps on a suspended frame and direct the warmth where you
want it. Make the frame about 3 or 4 foot square with a lamp on each
corner. Lowe's and Home Depot have gimbaled, clamp on (spring loaded)
reflectors at "as I recall" around $12 each. Maybe less. They work
well and you don't need to get close to them to take the chill off.

>Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though including
>an unused 220 connection.

Depends on what you want to spend, but I put in one of the "tube
heaters", or hangar heaters, then added a programmable thermostat. It
used to go from chilly to uncomfortably warm and back with the simple
bimetallic thermostat. Now it stays on what ever temperature you set.
As the heat is really IR, the floors and even my tools are warm.
As I recall the furnace/tube heater was between $800 and $1,000. The
darn thermostat cost me over $200 by the time I purchased the
thermostat, put in the transformer, control relay and ran about 40'
of thin wall from the main panel, to the ceiling, over to the south
wall, west about half the length of the wall and then down to where I
can just reach the thermostat. I did all the work including the
furnace installation. With what I have, paying for the installation
would probably run at least another $500.


It is natural gas, but they are available in propane versions as well.
They normally use room air with the exhaust blown outside, but you can
get them in versions that use outside air. Mine is 75,000 BTU, 30
foot long, and far more than adequate in a 28 X 40' shop. With
temperatures just above zero it doesn't run all that often or very
long at a time. That is with two big garage doors and about a 12'
ceiling.It costs about half as much to heat as does our house.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
>area.
>
>Gig
>

[Roger]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:37:26 GMT, Jon Kraus >
wrote:

>How about one of these to use up that idle 220 volt connection.
>
>http://www.heatersunlimited.com/item29471.ctlg

Let's see @ X 15KW at say 7 cents per KWH is $$2.10 an hour but they
should run intermittently after they are up to temp.

I've forgotten my physics...any one... what's 30KW in BTU?
I remember 746 watts per HP.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>
>Jon Kraus
>'79 Mooney 201
>4443H @ TYQ
>
>
>Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>> What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
>> doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
>> when it is 30-40 outside.
>>
>> Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though including
>> an unused 220 connection.
>>
>> To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
>> area.
>>
>> Gig
>>
>>
Roger

[Roger]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:43:05 -0600, "Jim Burns"
> wrote:

>Buy some rectangular duct work and lay it along one side of the hanger. Put
>several exhaust vents in it. Then using the 220AC, buy some electric duct
>heaters, a thermostat, a relay and a fan. Do it yourself forced air. Maybe
>a lot of work, but it's not fixed to the building (I assume you rent) and
>it's a contained system that should be fairly fire proof. The thermostat
>let's you set it and forget it. When you're in the hanger, you can also aim
>a propane or kerosene heater towards the fan and get extra heat out of it.
>
>We've got natural gas heat in our hanger, and it is terribly expensive to
>maintain 40 degrees here in WI so we just use it to warm up the hanger when
>we have work to do.
>

You ned to insulate that thing.<:-))
OTOH if it's big enough for a 737 that's different.

I sure wish I had a hangar built like my shop out at the airport.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


>Jim
>
>"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
>> What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
>> doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
>> when it is 30-40 outside.
>>
>> Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though
>including
>> an unused 220 connection.
>>
>> To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
>> area.
>>
>> Gig
>>
>>
>

[George Patterson]

Roger wrote:

> I've forgotten my physics...any one... what's 30KW in BTU?

According to a formula I found at "infoplease", that works out to 102,360 BTU.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Dave Stadt]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:dYNnf.14092$Ea6.1451@trnddc08...
> Roger wrote:
>
> > I've forgotten my physics...any one... what's 30KW in BTU?
>
> According to a formula I found at "infoplease", that works out to 102,360
BTU.
>
> George Patterson
> Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong
to
> your slightly older self.

My 75K natural gas unit heater costs $1.00 per hour as a comparison.

[#1ACGuy]

A heat pump would provide the cheapest electric heat, but the installation
would be a bitch in a hanger. Main problem would be finding a place for the
condensing unit.
Something like this would be cheap and easy. Hangers are drafty enough for
one of these to be on for a while.
Alex
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=503598&R=503598

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
> What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
> doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
> when it is 30-40 outside.
>
> Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though
> including an unused 220 connection.
>
> To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
> area.
>
> Gig
>

[George Patterson]

Dave Stadt wrote:

> My 75K natural gas unit heater costs $1.00 per hour as a comparison.

If that was last year, it may be considerably more this year. Here in Jersey, it
probably won't be too bad -- the providers are only asking for a 40% rate
increase, but I've heard stories of rates doubling.

Still cheaper than electric, of course.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Roger]

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:17:34 GMT, john smith > wrote:

>In article >,
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
>
>> www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>Too bad the floor is already poured.
>The best hangar heating is via a heated floor.
>You plumb it before you pour and connect it to a boiler.
>Makes it much more comfortable on your feet and legs while working on
>the plane during the cold months and keeps the heat out of the rafters.

The IR heater in my shop heats the floor to the same temp as the rest
of the building. I do have two of the large ceiling fans to circulate
the air to prevent much of a temperature variation between the floor
and ceiling. If I have any complaint about the tube heater it would
be the noise and the supplied thermostat. The noise is not bad, but
it's not quiet. Mine, like most furnaces takes the inlet air from the
room. If I did it again I'd use a firebox that takes in outside air.
The standard thermostat is just a bimetallic strip. It has a very
wide dead band between on and off. Enough of a dead band that you get
chilly before it turns on and uncomfortably warm before it turns off.
It was probably about 6 degrees or more. With the thermostat properly
located and replaced with the programmable one the temperature never
changes enough for you to see the digits change on the read out. Set
it at 70 and the inside goes to 70. Both will always read 70 even
though the furnace will occasionally turn on for a few minutes. Even
with the much colder temperatures this year compared to last and the
gas usage is about half of what it was.

To heat a hangar efficiently it needs very good insulation in the
walls, ceiling and doors. Those doors need to seal well too. It
helps if the floor is insulated from he ground as well although that
is not often done. However it works very well.

As one of the major problems with heating a hangar is it's height,
ceiling fans and a lot of insulation up there can really improve the
efficiency. Without the fans you have to put a lot of BTUs into the
room so the area up to head high is comfortable. When you do that,
quite often you will find it is much warmer near the ceiling. That
makes for a large temperature differential between inside and outside
which required even more insulation and makes for high heat /energy
loss

Were I going to build a hangar I'd model it after my shop. The
foundation would be insulated from the inside with a thermal break and
the floor would be insulated from the ground as well as the
foundation. The ceiling would be no higher than necessary to clear
the tail on a light twin in the "kneeling" position (just in case).

Painted (pre finished) "Barn Metal" makes a good inside surface for
the walls and ceiling. It is far easier to install than dry wall. It
costs a bit more but less labor makes it close to a wash in price. If
the code allows and you can afford it, off set studs between the
inside and outside also make a big difference, but add about an inch
thickness to the wall. Electrical service is run in thin wall,
surface mount conduit. I have a barn metal ceiling in the shop and
that has 16" of blown in cellulose insulation.

As I said in another post, even with the high winds and single digit
temperatures we've been having the shop has been very economical to
heat.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Michelle P]

Better off with a propane construction site heater. ;-)
I have a Radiant and Construction site heater in my hangar.
Michelle

Michelle P wrote:

> Kerosene gives me a headache.
> Better off with a construction site heater.
> Michelle
>
> Paul kgyy wrote:
>
>> There used to be kerosene (JP4?) heaters that just required electricity
>> and generated huge amounts of heat. Don't know if those exist any
>> more, but check ebay.
>>
>>
>>

[Matt Whiting]

George Patterson wrote:
> Blanche wrote:
>
>> One of those propane blasters?
>
>
> Propane puts out a lot of moisture when it burns.
>
> George Patterson
> Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
> your slightly older self.

Yes, not a good idea for inside use.

Matt

[Dick Meade]

Most heating contractors have a "graveyard" of old units behind their shop.
In most cases, they have been replaced due to the A/C side croaking. Find
the air handler unit from a heat pump or electric heat unit. You can
usually pick these up almost for free. Since it is just for occasional use,
absolute efficiency isn't as important as if you were trying to heat the
hangar to 72 degrees in a Michigan winter.


"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
> What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
> doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
> when it is 30-40 outside.
>
> Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though
> including an unused 220 connection.
>
> To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
> area.
>
> Gig
>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

You may have a winner there.



"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
...
> How about one of these to use up that idle 220 volt connection.
>
> http://www.heatersunlimited.com/item29471.ctlg
>
> Jon Kraus
> '79 Mooney 201
> 4443H @ TYQ
>
>
> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>> What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
>> doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
>> when it is 30-40 outside.
>>
>> Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though
>> including an unused 220 connection.
>>
>> To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
>> area.
>>
>> Gig
>

[Mike Rapoport]

The big downside to in-floor heating is that you have to heat the hanger all
the time. With radiant heating you heat it when you need to and keep it at
33F the rest of the time.

Mike
MU-2


"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
>
>> www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
> Too bad the floor is already poured.
> The best hangar heating is via a heated floor.
> You plumb it before you pour and connect it to a boiler.
> Makes it much more comfortable on your feet and legs while working on
> the plane during the cold months and keeps the heat out of the rafters.

[Dave Stadt]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:nDOnf.17214$hB6.8153@trnddc05...
> Dave Stadt wrote:
>
> > My 75K natural gas unit heater costs $1.00 per hour as a comparison.
>
> If that was last year, it may be considerably more this year. Here in
Jersey, it
> probably won't be too bad -- the providers are only asking for a 40% rate
> increase, but I've heard stories of rates doubling.
>
> Still cheaper than electric, of course.
>
> George Patterson
> Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong
to
> your slightly older self.

Looks like we are going from $.7 to $1.18 per therm. It cost us $306 to
keep the hangar at 40 degrees f last winter with quite a few afternoons and
weekends at 68 to 70 degrees f. This is for a large T that is well
insulated, two ceiling fans and tight doors in northern IL. Trimline makes
an electronic thermostat that goes down to 35 degrees f and has a settable
deadband. Like Roger said a ceiling would help a lot as the peak of the
roof is over 20 feet.

[Tri-Pacer]

I just bought 5 gallons of kerosene and the bill was over $50.00

Ouch gonna be a cold winter

Paul
N1431A
"

....
> There used to be kerosene (JP4?) heaters that just required electricity
> and generated huge amounts of heat. Don't know if those exist any
> >

[George Patterson]

Tri-Pacer wrote:

> I just bought 5 gallons of kerosene and the bill was over $50.00

Ten dollars a gallon for *kerosene*?

Find a different supplier.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Mike Rapoport]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:JXXnf.12381$Jz6.8043@trnddc06...
> Tri-Pacer wrote:
>
>> I just bought 5 gallons of kerosene and the bill was over $50.00
>
> Ten dollars a gallon for *kerosene*?
>
> Find a different supplier.
>
> George Patterson
> Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
> your slightly older self.

Even Signature is cheaper.

[The Visitor]

Is't jp4 a mixture of jet a and avgas?

jet a is more like kerosene.

Anybody???

Paul kgyy wrote:
> There used to be kerosene (JP4?) heaters that just required electricity
> and generated huge amounts of heat. Don't know if those exist any
> more, but check ebay.
>

[RST Engineering]

The routine for most airports is to sump (drain) a pint or two of jet-a a
day out of the big tank or the fuel truck to look for water and crap. They
used to just dump it out like we dump the fuel out of the fuel sampler
(shhhh, don't tell EPA).

I put a red plastic gas can on the fuel truck and asked them to dump the
"contaminated" jet-a into the gas can every day. Doesn't take long for me
to get five gallons of kerosene that way, and it's free and the
environmentalists stay happy too. win, win, win.

Jim



"Tri-Pacer" > wrote in message
...
>I just bought 5 gallons of kerosene and the bill was over $50.00
>
> Ouch gonna be a cold winter
>
> Paul
> N1431A
> "
>
> ...
>> There used to be kerosene (JP4?) heaters that just required electricity
>> and generated huge amounts of heat. Don't know if those exist any
>> >
>
>

[Orval Fairbairn]

A heated hanger keeps your coat nice and warm in the winter; a heated
hangar keeps your plane nice and warm in the winter. :>)

--
Remve "_" from email to reply to me personally.

[David Lesher]

The Visitor > writes:

>Is't jp4 a mixture of jet a and avgas?

>jet a is more like kerosene.


Jet A is pure kerosene.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Jay Honeck]

>I just bought 5 gallons of kerosene and the bill was over $50.00

That *has* to be a typo.

Just buy jet fuel from your FBO. We burn it in our torpedo heater (it's
designed for kerosene) at the hangar, and it works great.

Current cost is about $3 per gallon.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Whiting]

Tri-Pacer wrote:

> I just bought 5 gallons of kerosene and the bill was over $50.00

Either you made a typo or you got taken badly. Kero is still under
$3/gallon here in PA.

Matt

[RST Engineering]

No, what he didn't tell you is that he flew to Reno to get it {;-)

Jim



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:ON1of.622551$x96.167116@attbi_s72...
> >I just bought 5 gallons of kerosene and the bill was over $50.00
>
> That *has* to be a typo.
>
> Just buy jet fuel from your FBO. We burn it in our torpedo heater (it's
> designed for kerosene) at the hangar, and it works great.
>
> Current cost is about $3 per gallon.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Tri-Pacer]

My computer made me do it That should have been 15 gallons

Still gonna be a cold winter.

Paul
N1431A



>I just bought 5 gallons of kerosene and the bill was over $50.00
>
> Ouch gonna be a cold winter
>
> Paul
> N1431A
> "
>
> ...
>> There used to be kerosene (JP4?) heaters that just required electricity
>> and generated huge amounts of heat. Don't know if those exist any
>> >
>
>

[Montblack]

("Tri-Pacer" wrote)
> My computer made me do it That should have been 15 gallons
>
> Still gonna be a cold winter.

>>I just bought 5 gallons of kerosene and the bill was over $50.00


I have an option to buy 4 cans (20 gallons total) of kerosene ...and get
two, new in the box, heaters thrown in to boot. These are bigger units -
upright. Many BTU's.

They were a donation for our theater's fundraiser. They didn't sell at the
garage sale last spring, or this fall. Whole works is mine if I want it: 2
heaters + 20gals of kerosene = $50.

Might be a stocking stuffer ...for me.


Montblack

[Greg B]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> They were a donation for our theater's fundraiser. They didn't sell at the
> garage sale last spring, or this fall. Whole works is mine if I want it: 2
> heaters + 20gals of kerosene = $50.
>
> Might be a stocking stuffer ...for me.

You should move to Texas so you can have a 10 gallon hat to go with your 20
gallon stockings!

;-)

[Montblack]

("Greg B" wrote)
> You should move to Texas so you can have a 10 gallon hat to go with your
> 20 gallon stockings!


I'm moving up the food chain! No more lumps of coal.


Montblack
All hat - no cattle ...unless you count the poodle.

[Roger]

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 05:25:33 GMT, "Dave Stadt" >
wrote:

>
>"George Patterson" > wrote in message
>news:dYNnf.14092$Ea6.1451@trnddc08...
>> Roger wrote:
>>
>> > I've forgotten my physics...any one... what's 30KW in BTU?
>>
>> According to a formula I found at "infoplease", that works out to 102,360
>BTU.
>>
>> George Patterson
>> Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong
>to
>> your slightly older self.
>
>My 75K natural gas unit heater costs $1.00 per hour as a comparison.
>

Depending on what I'm doing I keep the shop 28 X 40 at 70 to 72
degrees F for about 12 out of 24 hours with the other 12 at 62 to 64
for about $2.00 to $3.00 a day in this very cold weather and it's
75,000 BTU as well. Of course it's not running all the time.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger

[Jim Burns]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:ON1of.622551$x96.167116@attbi_s72...
> Current cost is about $3 per gallon.
> --

Jet is even cheaper than diesel fuel here. Our ag operator was here
yesterday and told me that he uses Jet in his truck and in his furnace at
home because it's cheaper. Also keeps the injectors cleaner. Rather than
buying some #1 diesel, to blend with our #2 for the winter, I should have
just bought a 1/2 semi load of Jet. grrrrrrrrrr.

Jim

[Newps]

Montblack wrote:

> ("Tri-Pacer" wrote)
>
>> My computer made me do it That should have been 15 gallons
>>
>> Still gonna be a cold winter.
>
>
>>> I just bought 5 gallons of kerosene and the bill was over $50.00
>
>
>
> I have an option to buy 4 cans (20 gallons total) of kerosene ...and get
> two, new in the box, heaters thrown in to boot. These are bigger units -
> upright. Many BTU's.

Go to your local FBO's and head back to the maintenence area. Many
FBO's have a policy that once they remove jet fuel from a plane they
cannot reuse it. My FBO has a 1000 gallon tank out back and I can get
pretty much all the jet fuel I want for my heater in the hangar.

[Newps]

Greg B wrote:

> "Montblack" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>They were a donation for our theater's fundraiser. They didn't sell at the
>>garage sale last spring, or this fall. Whole works is mine if I want it: 2
>>heaters + 20gals of kerosene = $50.
>>
>>Might be a stocking stuffer ...for me.
>
>
> You should move to Texas so you can have a 10 gallon hat to go with your 20
> gallon stockings!

Big hat, no cattle. Makes you a laughingstock.

[Matt Barrow]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Greg B wrote:
>
>> "Montblack" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>They were a donation for our theater's fundraiser. They didn't sell at
>>>the garage sale last spring, or this fall. Whole works is mine if I want
>>>it: 2 heaters + 20gals of kerosene = $50.
>>>
>>>Might be a stocking stuffer ...for me.
>>
>>
>> You should move to Texas so you can have a 10 gallon hat to go with your
>> 20 gallon stockings!
>
> Big hat, no cattle. Makes you a laughingstock.

That's "All hat, no
--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO cattle", sodbuster!

[Blanche]

(ducking & running *real fast!*)

move to warm places in the south of the US?

(and now hiding....)

I'm in Denver, have a hangar, but it's cold out there! But at
least I don't get hail damage.

[Roger]

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 04:07:13 -0500, Roger
> wrote:

>On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 05:25:33 GMT, "Dave Stadt" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"George Patterson" > wrote in message
>>news:dYNnf.14092$Ea6.1451@trnddc08...
>>> Roger wrote:
>>>
>>> > I've forgotten my physics...any one... what's 30KW in BTU?
>>>
>>> According to a formula I found at "infoplease", that works out to 102,360
>>BTU.
>>>
>>> George Patterson
>>> Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong
>>to
>>> your slightly older self.
>>
>>My 75K natural gas unit heater costs $1.00 per hour as a comparison.
>>
>
>Depending on what I'm doing I keep the shop 28 X 40 at 70 to 72
>degrees F for about 12 out of 24 hours with the other 12 at 62 to 64
>for about $2.00 to $3.00 a day in this very cold weather and it's
>75,000 BTU as well. Of course it's not running all the time.

I should have added the furnace is not running all the time, but the
shop is heated all winter, 24 X 7.

Actually it is heated the warmest during the coldest part of the night
as I usually work out there from about 7 or 8 PM on to about 3 or 4
AM. The setback takes it to 62 degrees at 3 AM, but it's usually
still 68 or better by then. It ramps back up to 66 at 7 AM where it
keeps it the rest of the day. it goes to 70 around 10 PM unless I
manually punch it up. The big doors get opened several times a day
which is another reason I don't keep it as warm as I do at night.

I just received the bill for this past month when we had the wind and
single digit temperatures. It was a tad under $2.50 a day at $74
($2.47 a day) including sur charges, delivery charge (for natural
gas?), and all the other charges and taxes they stuck in there.
I keep the shop warmer than the house, and it cost 20% less to heat
than the house.

The electrical use was up though as I did a lot of welding,wood
working, and fiberglass sanding last month, which meant the whole shop
fan was running all the time too. I had to set up the humidifier as
well as another fan just blowing over the top of some 5 gallon pails
of water. The humidity was down to 16%. It's no wonder the plywood I
took out there curled up before I could turn it into shelves. (and
that was less than two hours). 28" pieces were warping over an inch in
less than two hours. Clamps, glue, and a few nails took care of that.

Also there are 11, eight foot fluorescent fixtures (22, 8' lamps @
40W each) mounted from the ceiling. I'd like to use full spectrum, but
at the price they run, I think I'll stick with the cheap ones and
maybe hang a couple of the good ones over the work bench and desk.

When the first one burns out I change them all as I know the rest will
go within the next month or two. Besides a full carton is almost half
the price of purchasing the same number one-at-a-time. I throw out
the bad ones, and mark the others as spares, for the just-in-case. But
at any rate that is 440 watts or about 3 cents an hour for lights.
OTOH that works out to about $11 or $12 a month just for the ceiling
lights. It's amazing how each of the little costs adds up.

Let's see now... If I could convince my wife I need to replace that
big, heavy, bulky, gets in the way, 19" CRT on the computer out there
with an energy saving 21" LCD thin screen.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com



>
>Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
>(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
>www.rogerhalstead.com
>Roger

[Roger]

On 17 Dec 2005 02:45:11 GMT, Blanche > wrote:

>(ducking & running *real fast!*)
>
>move to warm places in the south of the US?
>
>(and now hiding....)
>
>I'm in Denver, have a hangar, but it's cold out there! But at
>least I don't get hail damage.

Hmmmm... You new to Denver?
Some years back I was taking my wife out to visit my daughter who
lived in Boulder at the time. There were some towering Q that had
slid off the mountains right on top of Boulder, Denver, and even
Lyman.

They had a tornado at Lyman, baseball to softball size hail in both
Denver and Boulder. It actually splintered roof boards under shingles
and damaged millions of dollars worth of cars. It took the wind
screen out of one side on a Beech 1900 departing Stapleton. (I think
that may have been the last year of two of operation there.

We ended up getting 90 degreed once, but other than a few bumps it
went well. As we were leaving Jefco in the rental car, I looked up
to see a small plane "spit out" the side of one of those big black
clouds. He wasn't right side up although they did recover nicely.

One guy with a fairly new light twin got caught in it and although he
was able to land safely the airplane was nearly totaled.

They accused us of bringing Michigan weather along with us. I don't
think the visibility made it much above 10 miles for the entire week
we were there.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Kevin Kubiak]

How about a waste oil heater. I've seen some large
automive shops heat their shops just from waste oil.
DO a google search on waste oil heaters.

Kevin Kubiak - PP-ASEL
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

> What is the groups suggestion for heating a 40x50 insulated hanger. It
> doesn't have to be hot I just want to raise the temp about 15-20 degrees
> when it is 30-40 outside.
>
> Here's the rub. No natural gas available plenty of electric though including
> an unused 220 connection.
>
> To see the hanger visit www.peoamerica.net/N601WR look in the contact me
> area.
>
> Gig
>
>