Amphib decks commanded by SWOs ?

[Mike Weeks]

Does anyone have any knowledge (general or otherwise) as to when the
USN changed its policy regarding authorizing surface warfare officers
to command the large amphib decks (the LPHs/LHAs/LHDs) ??

I'm thinking it didn't happen until after the 1970s. TIA.

MW

[Yofuri]

Mike Weeks wrote:
> Does anyone have any knowledge (general or otherwise) as to when the
> USN changed its policy regarding authorizing surface warfare officers
> to command the large amphib decks (the LPHs/LHAs/LHDs) ??
>
> I'm thinking it didn't happen until after the 1970s. TIA.
>
> MW
>
During my time with the gator-freighters in '81-83, all LPH CO's and
XO's were aviators. LHA's had SWO CO's and alternating XO's. TRIPOLI
(LPH-10) had a photo board of their CO's back to commissioning in '64
and they were all aviators.

Rick

[Mike Weeks]

Yofuri wrote:
> Mike Weeks wrote:
> > Does anyone have any knowledge (general or otherwise) as to when the
> > USN changed its policy regarding authorizing surface warfare officers
> > to command the large amphib decks (the LPHs/LHAs/LHDs) ??
> >
> > I'm thinking it didn't happen until after the 1970s. TIA.
> >
> > MW
> >
> During my time with the gator-freighters in '81-83, all LPH CO's and
> XO's were aviators. LHA's had SWO CO's and alternating XO's. TRIPOLI
> (LPH-10) had a photo board of their CO's back to commissioning in '64
> and they were all aviators.

Thanks Rick. Further digging strongly suggests that only aviators or
NFOs commanded LPHs until the last was decommissioned.

And I found one early example of a SWO commanding an LHA (Saipan), so I
have to assume that was the policy from the get-go when the LHAs came
on-line -- the first in 1976.

MW

[Yofuri]

Mike Weeks wrote:
> Yofuri wrote:
>
>>Mike Weeks wrote:
>>
>>>Does anyone have any knowledge (general or otherwise) as to when the
>>>USN changed its policy regarding authorizing surface warfare officers
>>>to command the large amphib decks (the LPHs/LHAs/LHDs) ??
>>>
>>>I'm thinking it didn't happen until after the 1970s. TIA.
>>>
>>>MW
>>>
>>
>>During my time with the gator-freighters in '81-83, all LPH CO's and
>>XO's were aviators. LHA's had SWO CO's and alternating XO's. TRIPOLI
>>(LPH-10) had a photo board of their CO's back to commissioning in '64
>>and they were all aviators.
>
>
> Thanks Rick. Further digging strongly suggests that only aviators or
> NFOs commanded LPHs until the last was decommissioned.
>
> And I found one early example of a SWO commanding an LHA (Saipan), so I
> have to assume that was the policy from the get-go when the LHAs came
> on-line -- the first in 1976.
>
> MW
>
Yep, it was interesting duty.

At that time, six LHA/LPH AIMD Officer billets (three on each coast)
were LDO billets; the remainder were Aircraft Maintenance Duty Officer
(AMDO/1520) billets. Life could be real fun for them when the senior
Navy aviator aboard was the OPSO. Things like enforcing hydraulic
contamination standards could result in some real faceoffs with senior
Marine officers.

One of my LHA LDO cohorts had a SWO XO whose pet peeve was finding
telephone lists and other references attached to the pullout writing
board of office desks. Any time he found a desk with a desecrated
pullout board, he pulled it halfway out and bent it double with his knee!

IIRC, every CO of TRIPOLI from 1964 to 1982 went on to two stars with
the exception of CAPT Collie Haynes, a former POW who was in poor health
at the time. It was quite an honor list, including Willie Nyberg,
Julian Lake, Chuck McGrail and others whom I forget. In 1983 TRIPOLI's
mission was changed to Mine Warfare flagship, and it became the "Polish
Minesweeper" of GW1 when a mine blew away a big chunk of the starboard
bow area.

I never found the answer to one curious fact: Aviator XO's and OPSO's
of LHA's and LPH's were not required to be underway qualified.

Rick

[Mike Weeks]

Yofuri wrote:


> IIRC, every CO of TRIPOLI from 1964 to 1982 went on to two stars with
> the exception of CAPT Collie Haynes, a former POW who was in poor health
> at the time. It was quite an honor list, including Willie Nyberg,
> Julian Lake, Chuck McGrail and others whom I forget.

Perhaps this helps; taken from a 1993 ship's brochure:

66-67 Hank Suerstedt
67-68 Bill Adams
68-69 Don Shelton
69-70 Vince O'Rourke
70-71 Paul Hatley
71-72 Jim Gammon
72-74 Warren Lockwood
74-75 Cecil Kempft
75-77 Lee Levenson
77-79 Al Smith
79-81 Collins Haines
81-82 Chuck McGrail
82-84 Tom Cliff

I show Lake as being JFK's skipper (69-70) and Nyberg had
Kearsarge(CVS-33) in 66-67.

I was really sadden to learn of McGrail's passing a few years back; his
squadron command tour had been VF-96, and had the opportunity to meet
him while doing research on that squadron's history.

MW

[Mike Weeks]

oops; that should be: 74-74 Cecil Kempf

[Dave in San Diego]

"Mike Weeks" > wrote in news:1134783725.162353.119350
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

>
> Yofuri wrote:
>
>
>> IIRC, every CO of TRIPOLI from 1964 to 1982 went on to two stars with
>> the exception of CAPT Collie Haynes, a former POW who was in poor health
>> at the time. It was quite an honor list, including Willie Nyberg,
>> Julian Lake, Chuck McGrail and others whom I forget.
>
> Perhaps this helps; taken from a 1993 ship's brochure:
>
> 66-67 Hank Suerstedt
> 67-68 Bill Adams
> 68-69 Don Shelton
> 69-70 Vince O'Rourke
> 70-71 Paul Hatley
> 71-72 Jim Gammon
> 72-74 Warren Lockwood
> 74-75 Cecil Kempft
> 75-77 Lee Levenson
> 77-79 Al Smith
> 79-81 Collins Haines
> 81-82 Chuck McGrail
> 82-84 Tom Cliff
>
> I show Lake as being JFK's skipper (69-70) and Nyberg had
> Kearsarge(CVS-33) in 66-67.
>
> I was really sadden to learn of McGrail's passing a few years back; his
> squadron command tour had been VF-96, and had the opportunity to meet
> him while doing research on that squadron's history.

McGrail was my skipper on the Midway after his Tripoli tour. Great guy.

Dave in San Diego

[Boomerang]

On wrinkle nobody has mentioned was the fact that the PHIBRON Commodore was
the luck of the draw - I had a submariner, an aviator and a crusty old black
shoe during my two amphibs - and the culture accommodations that had to be
made depended a lot on their attitudes. And yes, the LPHs all had 1310s in
my day as did the LPDs, IIRC.

[John Weiss]

"Dave in San Diego" > wrote...
>
> McGrail was my skipper on the Midway after his Tripoli tour. Great guy.

'Good evening, this is the Captain speaking. The sky is clear, and sunset
coming up soon -- a great day to come up and watch the "green flash"! Come on
up and join me for a FOD walkdown'! [or words to that effect]

....not to mention the "stealth transit" from Japan to NorPac to join Enterprise
and Coral Maru...

[Yofuri]

John Weiss wrote:
> "Dave in San Diego" > wrote...
>
>>McGrail was my skipper on the Midway after his Tripoli tour. Great guy.
>
>
> 'Good evening, this is the Captain speaking. The sky is clear, and sunset
> coming up soon -- a great day to come up and watch the "green flash"! Come on
> up and join me for a FOD walkdown'! [or words to that effect]
>
> ...not to mention the "stealth transit" from Japan to NorPac to join Enterprise
> and Coral Maru...
>
>
Did you have a "McGrail's Navy" sundeck above the bridge, with chaise
lounge, patio carpet, potted palm, SP phone to the bridge and the SPS
radar shut down when in use? Tripoli did.

Rick

[John Weiss]

"Yofuri" > wrote...
>>
> Did you have a "McGrail's Navy" sundeck above the bridge, with chaise lounge,
> patio carpet, potted palm, SP phone to the bridge and the SPS radar shut down
> when in use? Tripoli did.

Never saw it... Then again, I seldom went near the bridge...

[Dave in San Diego]

Yofuri > wrote in
:

> John Weiss wrote:
>> "Dave in San Diego" > wrote...
>>
>>>McGrail was my skipper on the Midway after his Tripoli tour. Great guy.
>>
>>
>> 'Good evening, this is the Captain speaking. The sky is clear, and
>> sunset coming up soon -- a great day to come up and watch the "green
>> flash"! Come on up and join me for a FOD walkdown'! [or words to that
>> effect]
>>
>> ...not to mention the "stealth transit" from Japan to NorPac to join
>> Enterprise and Coral Maru...
>>
>>
> Did you have a "McGrail's Navy" sundeck above the bridge, with chaise
> lounge, patio carpet, potted palm, SP phone to the bridge and the SPS
> radar shut down when in use? Tripoli did.
>
> Rick

Re: the stealth transit - don't leave out the man overboard that made it
into Approach some time later. That kid was SO lucky!

Re: McGrail's Navy - no, we didn't have one of those.

Re: green flash - loved those. I must have seen several dozen of them.

Dave

[Mike Weeks]

Dave in San Diego wrote:

> Re: the stealth transit - don't leave out the man overboard that made it
> into Approach some time later. That kid was SO lucky!

What's the basic outline?

[Dave in San Diego]

"Mike Weeks" > wrote in news:1134869758.758012.317070
@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

>
> Dave in San Diego wrote:
>
>> Re: the stealth transit - don't leave out the man overboard that made it
>> into Approach some time later. That kid was SO lucky!
>
> What's the basic outline?

He and a couple of buddies were horsing around on the flight deck in the
dark aft of El 3 and he got too close to the edge and went over. Not sure
why he missed any nets. And when I say dark, there were only the deceptive
nav lights on and a few well guarded red flashlights for the little work
that could be done on the flight deck. Starlight was the major light
source, and little of that.

Somebody saw him go into the water and immediately got the man overboard
going. Other folks started dropping flares into the water to attempt to
track him. The boat lit up like the Fourth of July, they launched the helo
and did the other standard MOB stuff. The kid was an outstanding swimmer
and saved his bacon by swimming from flare to flare so he could be seen. A
boat from a small boy ended up picking him up. This whole evolution lasted
about 45 minutes.

After all this, we still managed to successfully complete the deceptive
transit and surprise the Russians up by the Aleutians. They were too busy
watching the "E" coming out of a long yard period.

I can't find the catchy Approach article name in the 80s index, but the
incident happened in late '82, and IIRC, the article was published after I
got to my next duty station in July '83.

Dave in San Diego

[Mike Weeks]

Thanks.

Indeed, he sure kept his cool. And I assume that the water temperature
wasn't "tropicals" given this was in transit north out of Japan.

[Brian Sharrock]

"Dave in San Diego" > wrote in message
. 30...
> Yofuri > wrote in
> :
>
>> John Weiss wrote:
>>> "Dave in San Diego" > wrote...
>>>
>>>>McGrail was my skipper on the Midway after his Tripoli tour. Great
>>>>guy.
>>>
>>>
>>> 'Good evening, this is the Captain speaking. The sky is clear,
>>> and
>>> sunset coming up soon -- a great day to come up and watch the
>>> "green
>>> flash"!

snip

> Re: green flash - loved those. I must have seen several dozen of
> them.
>
> Dave

Many years ago, I took a flight from Oslo to LHR.
The day was 'gin-clear' and the aircraft departed Oslo
about local sunset. On attaining cruising altitude the sun had
just set with its upper limb right on the horizon. The flight
tracked westwards at about the same rate the earth
turned east-wards so the sun seemed to hang just below
the horizon. I could clearly see the horizon, a band of black
then a further band of green light- about a quarter of the
remembered sun's diameter - with black sky above.
The flight just happened, due to a combination of heading
and time of year, to almost track down the terminator.
The phenomena was visible for about twenty minutes
before the sun dropped too far below the horizon.
It was the first time I was the green 'flash' as a green
presence.

--

Brian

[Dave in San Diego]

"Mike Weeks" > wrote in news:1134940299.384586.65110
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Thanks.
>
> Indeed, he sure kept his cool. And I assume that the water temperature
> wasn't "tropicals" given this was in transit north out of Japan.

Correct-a-mundo. It was late September, north of Hokkaido. I'm not so sure it
was cool, so much as sheer trror and desperation.

Dave in San Diego

[Gord Beaman]

"Brian Sharrock" > wrote:

>
>"Dave in San Diego" > wrote in message
. 30...
>> Yofuri > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> John Weiss wrote:
>>>> "Dave in San Diego" > wrote...
>>>>
>>>>>McGrail was my skipper on the Midway after his Tripoli tour. Great
>>>>>guy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 'Good evening, this is the Captain speaking. The sky is clear,
>>>> and
>>>> sunset coming up soon -- a great day to come up and watch the
>>>> "green
>>>> flash"!
>
>snip
>
>> Re: green flash - loved those. I must have seen several dozen of
>> them.
>>
>> Dave
>
>Many years ago, I took a flight from Oslo to LHR.
>The day was 'gin-clear' and the aircraft departed Oslo
>about local sunset. On attaining cruising altitude the sun had
>just set with its upper limb right on the horizon. The flight
>tracked westwards at about the same rate the earth
>turned east-wards so the sun seemed to hang just below
>the horizon. I could clearly see the horizon, a band of black
>then a further band of green light- about a quarter of the
>remembered sun's diameter - with black sky above.
>The flight just happened, due to a combination of heading
>and time of year, to almost track down the terminator.
>The phenomena was visible for about twenty minutes
>before the sun dropped too far below the horizon.
>It was the first time I was the green 'flash' as a green
>presence.

Interesting!...you must have been trucking along at just under
1000 MPH ground speed then,...what a/c type?
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[Bob McKellar]

"Gord Beaman" > wrote in message
...
> "Brian Sharrock" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Dave in San Diego" > wrote in message
. 30...
>>> Yofuri > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> John Weiss wrote:
>>>>> "Dave in San Diego" > wrote...
>>>>>
>>>>>>McGrail was my skipper on the Midway after his Tripoli tour. Great
>>>>>>guy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Good evening, this is the Captain speaking. The sky is clear,
>>>>> and
>>>>> sunset coming up soon -- a great day to come up and watch the
>>>>> "green
>>>>> flash"!
>>
>>snip
>>
>>> Re: green flash - loved those. I must have seen several dozen of
>>> them.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>>Many years ago, I took a flight from Oslo to LHR.
>>The day was 'gin-clear' and the aircraft departed Oslo
>>about local sunset. On attaining cruising altitude the sun had
>>just set with its upper limb right on the horizon. The flight
>>tracked westwards at about the same rate the earth
>>turned east-wards so the sun seemed to hang just below
>>the horizon. I could clearly see the horizon, a band of black
>>then a further band of green light- about a quarter of the
>>remembered sun's diameter - with black sky above.
>>The flight just happened, due to a combination of heading
>>and time of year, to almost track down the terminator.
>>The phenomena was visible for about twenty minutes
>>before the sun dropped too far below the horizon.
>>It was the first time I was the green 'flash' as a green
>>presence.
>
> Interesting!...you must have been trucking along at just under
> 1000 MPH ground speed then,...what a/c type?
> --
>
Remember, Gord, time zones are a lot smaller up North - they shrink in the
cold. And OSLO is definitely North!

Bob McKellar

[Duke of URL]

Mike Weeks @

> Does anyone have any knowledge (general or otherwise) as to when the
> USN changed its policy regarding authorizing surface warfare officers
> to command the large amphib decks (the LPHs/LHAs/LHDs) ??
> I'm thinking it didn't happen until after the 1970s. TIA.
>
But, but... We didn't HAVE the Surface Warfare Program in the Sixties...
--
Cliologist, Philanthropologist, Prothonotary Wibbler,
Paleoconservative, Surface Warrior Squid; There are three kinds of
lies: Lies, Statistics & Benchmarks

[Mike Weeks]

Duke of URL wrote:
> Mike Weeks @
>
> > Does anyone have any knowledge (general or otherwise) as to when the
> > USN changed its policy regarding authorizing surface warfare officers
> > to command the large amphib decks (the LPHs/LHAs/LHDs) ??
> > I'm thinking it didn't happen until after the 1970s. TIA.
> >
> But, but... We didn't HAVE the Surface Warfare Program in the Sixties...

But, but ... I wasn't asking about the Sixties ... Should I have
simply referenced "a black shoe" in any case ... <g>

[Brian Sharrock]

"Duke of URL" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Weeks @
>
>> Does anyone have any knowledge (general or otherwise) as to when
>> the
>> USN changed its policy regarding authorizing surface warfare
>> officers
>> to command the large amphib decks (the LPHs/LHAs/LHDs) ??
>> I'm thinking it didn't happen until after the 1970s. TIA.
>>
> But, but... We didn't HAVE the Surface Warfare Program in the
> Sixties...
>
Although I was able to infer from context that SWO meant
surface warfare, I confess that the subject line
" ... commanded by SWOs"
produced a Pavlovian image in my head of a SWO shouting -
within the Royal Air Force - "facilities" are styled 'Stations'.
Each having a 'Station Commander' {Commandant if of 'Flag'
rank) _and_ a 'Station Warrant Officer' .... the SWO
vocalised as 'the Swoh'.
The SWO is identified by the silver-topped black cane
he (alone) carries/swaggers along with.

So, I had a mental picture of an RAF SWO bellowing
orders - his ankles awash -on the well deck of
an amphib. ... :)

--

Brian