Info on this accident, please...

[Jay Honeck]

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/P-38_rollover_planecrash.wmv

This one was just sent to me without any background info. It shows a
beautiful P-38 Lightning, painted in D-Day invasion stripes, doing
barrel rolls right into the ground at airshow center.

Judging by the hair styles, I'm guessing this happened in the 1980s?
There are a fair number of parked warbirds, but also some GA planes...

Was it pilot error, or was there a mechanical failure? Where did this
happen? Can anyone point to the NTSB report?

Thanks,
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Darkwing]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/P-38_rollover_planecrash.wmv
>
> This one was just sent to me without any background info. It shows a
> beautiful P-38 Lightning, painted in D-Day invasion stripes, doing
> barrel rolls right into the ground at airshow center.
>
> Judging by the hair styles, I'm guessing this happened in the 1980s?
> There are a fair number of parked warbirds, but also some GA planes...
>
> Was it pilot error, or was there a mechanical failure? Where did this
> happen? Can anyone point to the NTSB report?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Jay Honeck


Damn that sucks. I would hate to be witness to something like that.

--------------------------------------
DW

[john smith]

In article . com>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/P-38_rollover_planecrash.wmv
>
> This one was just sent to me without any background info. It shows a
> beautiful P-38 Lightning, painted in D-Day invasion stripes, doing
> barrel rolls right into the ground at airshow center.
> Judging by the hair styles, I'm guessing this happened in the 1980s?
> There are a fair number of parked warbirds, but also some GA planes...

Jeff Ethel in Tillamook , Oregon.

[John Ousterhout]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/P-38_rollover_planecrash.wmv
>
> This one was just sent to me without any background info. It shows a
> beautiful P-38 Lightning, painted in D-Day invasion stripes, doing
> barrel rolls right into the ground at airshow center.
>
> Judging by the hair styles, I'm guessing this happened in the 1980s?
> There are a fair number of parked warbirds, but also some GA planes...
>
> Was it pilot error, or was there a mechanical failure? Where did this
> happen? Can anyone point to the NTSB report?

Probably this one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1367462.stm
14 July 1996: Decorated former RAF squadron leader and Britannia Airways
pilot Michael "Hoof" Proudfoot dies as his Lockheed P38 Lightning
cartwheels and bursts into flames.

The 54-year-old had been on a low-level flypast in the vintage US World
War Two plane in front of 13,000 people at the Imperial War Museum in
Duxford, Cambridgeshire.


http://www.airliners.net/open.file/895693/L/
Lockheed P-38J Lightning
NX3145 / 67543 Unfortunately lost in a crash at Duxford 16 July 1996


- J.O.-

[John Ousterhout]

john smith wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/P-38_rollover_planecrash.wmv
>>
>>This one was just sent to me without any background info. It shows a
>>beautiful P-38 Lightning, painted in D-Day invasion stripes, doing
>>barrel rolls right into the ground at airshow center.
>>Judging by the hair styles, I'm guessing this happened in the 1980s?
>>There are a fair number of parked warbirds, but also some GA planes...
>
>
> Jeff Ethel in Tillamook , Oregon.

Jeff Ethell crashed in the woods a few miles from the Tillamook airport,
not in front of a crowd.

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X08240&key=1

- J.O.-

[George Patterson]

john smith wrote:

> Jeff Ethel in Tillamook , Oregon.

From what I read about that accident, Ethel mishandled the fuel and both
engines quit on him. According to the NTSB report, the aircraft was intact
enough to determine the position of the fuel selectors and condition of the
engines. Doesn't sound like this crash at all.

http://home.worldonline.dk/winthrop/ethel1.html

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Denny]

I do not see any British marked aircraft in the footage... Could be
happenstance, or may not be the accident in England..
denny

[Jay Honeck]

Denny wrote:
> I do not see any British marked aircraft in the footage... Could be
> happenstance, or may not be the accident in England..
> denny

With many thanks to Dave Martin, it was, indeed, the Duxford crash.
Here is the report on the accident:

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/may_1997/lockheed_501731.cfm


Very sad.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dudley Henriques]

Jay;
I haven't looked at the film as I'm home with a dial up, but it sounds like
it was Hoof proudfoot's accident out of a second attempted roll during a
show in the UK. The accident investigation team attributed the probable
cause to a foul up between the yoke (the 38 has a yoke not a stick) and a
kneeboard Hoof was wearing on his left knee at the time.
Hoof was a very good demonstration pilot. he worked with Ray and Mark Hanna
on "Piece of Cake" and numerous other movies and had done demonstration
flying for years.
Dudley

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/P-38_rollover_planecrash.wmv
>
> This one was just sent to me without any background info. It shows a
> beautiful P-38 Lightning, painted in D-Day invasion stripes, doing
> barrel rolls right into the ground at airshow center.
>
> Judging by the hair styles, I'm guessing this happened in the 1980s?
> There are a fair number of parked warbirds, but also some GA planes...
>
> Was it pilot error, or was there a mechanical failure? Where did this
> happen? Can anyone point to the NTSB report?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Flyingmonk]

>The accident investigation team attributed the probable
>cause to a foul up between the yoke (the 38 has a yoke not a stick) and a
>kneeboard Hoof was wearing on his left knee at the time.

Shame...

[Dudley Henriques]

"Flyingmonk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> >The accident investigation team attributed the probable
>>cause to a foul up between the yoke (the 38 has a yoke not a stick) and a
>>kneeboard Hoof was wearing on his left knee at the time.
>
> Shame...

yes it was, and now Ray Hanna is gone as well. Ray and Hoof were friends.

I see I said Hoof had the kneeboard on his left knee. It was his right.
The P38J he was flying, although it has boosted ailerons, bleeds a ton of
energy in a multiple roll. I've always thought Hoof might have been just a
few knots shy of what he needed at initiation for that second roll, but I
hate to second guess him on that. The kneeboard definitely could have been a
player in the crash as far as I'm concerned. I don't like them and never
have. I don't recommend them to any pilot who comes close enough to hear me
on the issue. The P38 has a pretzel yoke that quite easily could have become
fouled in a kneeboard worn on a pilot's right knee, especially rolling to
the left. During an aileron roll, the nose describes an arc both above and
below the horizon. A pilot aileron rolling a P38 would be applying back
pressure to a roll set in the vertical plane at about 30 degrees nose high,
then initiating full deflection aileron into the direction of roll. Bottom
rudder is applied and released almost immediately as adverse yaw is
corrected and the nose pinned. Following the roll around the natural nose
arc, the bottom left corner of the yoke in a P38 could easily become fouled
with a kneeboard. The yoke would be passing with full aileron applied and
would be right there in the vicinity of the kneeboard as the plane rolled
through inverted. As back pressure would be coming back in on the backside
of the roll, the yoke could have hit the kneeboard denying recovery inputs.
In Hoof's accident, impact was past wings level with the airplane still
rolling left. This indicates something could have jammed the yoke on him.
I've always thought it was the kneeboard.
Dudley Henriques

[George Patterson]

John Ousterhout wrote:

> Probably this one:

Well, the latter link is an excellent photo. The plane is in the late model bare
aluminum paint scheme. What paint there is appears to be in excellent shape. The
video of the crash shows one in the green paint scheme used prior to 1944. I
think that a good indication that these were not the same plane.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[David CL Francis]

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 at 16:13:56 in message
<8JBof.651020$xm3.363465@attbi_s21>, John Ousterhout
> wrote:
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1367462.stm
>14 July 1996: Decorated former RAF squadron leader and Britannia
>Airways pilot Michael "Hoof" Proudfoot dies as his Lockheed P38
>Lightning cartwheels and bursts into flames.
>
>The 54-year-old had been on a low-level flypast in the vintage US World
>War Two plane in front of 13,000 people at the Imperial War Museum in
>Duxford, Cambridgeshire.

I believe that is the one. I recall reading about the accident
investigation. The pilot normally did a low level roll, but always with
an upward flight path. In this case for an unknown reason a second
started. The most likely theory I believe is that a loose piece of
equipment fell into the bottom of the cockpit - possibly a knee-board,
possibly jamming the aileron control.

--
David CL Francis