Re: Another Cirrus Down

[DA40 Owner]

And another....

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051231/NEWS/512310376/0/FRONTPAGE

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051230/NEWS/51230008/1001

[john smith]

In article . com>,
"DA40 Owner" > wrote:

> http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051230/NEWS/51230008
> /1001

I like this quote:

"That plane is a new model, Bauer said. Its composite-built, not metal,
and it has a built-in parachute. Composite is the way theyre building
airplanes now because metal is so expensive and its lighter and very
strong."

[George Patterson]

john smith wrote:

> I like this quote:
>
> "That plane is a new model, Bauer said. Its composite-built, not metal,
> and it has a built-in parachute. Composite is the way theyre building
> airplanes now because metal is so expensive and its lighter and very
> strong."

I knew the author was writing fiction with the first sentence "... when their
small airplane became lost in the fog and wind ...."

And they know this how?

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Michael Ware]

How does one get lost in the wind, anyway?

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:tm0vf.18008$Uf7.13906@trnddc01...

> I knew the author was writing fiction with the first sentence "... when
their
> small airplane became lost in the fog and wind ...."
>
> And they know this how?
>
> George Patterson
> Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong
to
> your slightly older self.

[Jose]

> How does one get lost in the wind, anyway?

One flies along over nondescript terrain, expecting waypoints to show up
but they don't because of wind drift. One does this for long enough and
one is lost.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Thomas Borchert]

Jose,

> One flies along over nondescript terrain, expecting waypoints to show up
> but they don't because of wind drift. One does this for long enough and
> one is lost.
>

In a Cirrus? Real hard, IMHO.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Roger]

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 07:20:19 -0800, Thomas Borchert
> wrote:

>Jose,
>
>> One flies along over nondescript terrain, expecting waypoints to show up
>> but they don't because of wind drift. One does this for long enough and
>> one is lost.
>>
>
> In a Cirrus? Real hard, IMHO.
>
Maybe with a complete electrical failure while in the fog? Otherwise I
could fly from Michigan to Florida without ever looking past the MFD
as I watched the way points go by.

Now days, in the modern planes you'd have to try to get lost or have a
major equipment malfunction after not paying attention. OTOH I'm sure
there are those who can do it ... easily.

Then again I'm flying a 46 year old airplane with about 20 year old
navs. It was an almost modern panel when I purchased the plane, but
then again I was a lot younger and wasn't showing the mileage as much
either.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[George Patterson]

Jose wrote:

> One flies along over nondescript terrain, expecting waypoints to show up
> but they don't because of wind drift. One does this for long enough and
> one is lost.

The plane supposedly crashed shortly after takeoff. With this reporter,
"shortly" could've been three hours, though.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[City Dweller]

.... and another, today.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=65f77516-9bf0-4e4a-96da-86807023f148#d

"DA40 Owner" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> And another....
>
> http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051231/NEWS/512310376/0/FRONTPAGE
>
> http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051230/NEWS/51230008/1001
>

[George Patterson]

City Dweller wrote:
> ... and another, today.

Ah ... the dreaded upwind turn.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Montblack]

("City Dweller" wrote)
> ... and another, today.
>
> <http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=65f77516-9bf0-4e4a-96da-86807023f148#d>

>> <http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051231/NEWS/512310376/0/FRONTPAGE>

>> <http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051230/NEWS/51230008/1001>


Wasn't it Robinson (R22 /R44) Helicopters that decided their design was
good, but owners needed more/better training?

I wonder if Cirrus is getting nearer that PR reality?


Montblack

[Dave Stadt]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("City Dweller" wrote)
>> ... and another, today.
>>
>> <http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=65f77516-9bf0-4e4a-96da-86807023f148#d>
>
>>> <http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051231/NEWS/512310376/0/FRONTPAGE>
>
>>> <http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051230/NEWS/51230008/1001>
>
>
> Wasn't it Robinson (R22 /R44) Helicopters that decided their design was
> good, but owners needed more/better training?
>
> I wonder if Cirrus is getting nearer that PR reality?
>
>
> Montblack

I thought they had allready done that.

[Drogo]

Wow. What's the deal with all the Cirrus' (Cirri?) going down?

Or is this just a case of
"Everyone-watching-the-new-fangled-glass-plane"? I mean, I realize that
occasionally planes get bent, but it seems like there's a higher number
of Cirrus' doing it lately. Blame the media? ;-)


In article >, City
Dweller > wrote:

> ... and another, today.
>
>
> http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=65f77516-9bf0-4e4a-96da-8680
> 7023f148#d
>
> "DA40 Owner" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > And another....
> >
> >
> > http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051231/NEWS/512310376/
> > 0/FRONTPAGE
> >
> > http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051230/NEWS/51230008/1001
> >
>
>

[Montblack]

("Dave Stadt" wrote)
>> Wasn't it Robinson (R22 /R44) Helicopters that decided their design was
>> good, but owners needed more/better training?
>>
>> I wonder if Cirrus is getting nearer that PR reality?

> I thought they had allready done that.


If this keeps up:
2,000 Cirrus built - one of those owners (+ pas) is going to die in the next
two months.


Montblack

['Vejita' S. Cousin]

In article >,
Montblack > wrote:
>("Dave Stadt" wrote)
>>> Wasn't it Robinson (R22 /R44) Helicopters that decided their design was
>>> good, but owners needed more/better training?
>>>
>>> I wonder if Cirrus is getting nearer that PR reality?
>
>> I thought they had allready done that.
>
>If this keeps up:
>2,000 Cirrus built - one of those owners (+ pas) is going to die in the next
>two months.

I don't think it's just PR thou. I mean the jump from a C152/C172 to a
SR22 is no small step. And given that most accidents are due to pilot
error it's not unreasonable to suspect that pilot error more than plan
design affects the stats.
In the case of the Robinson I also think that since they are the
'defacto standard' trainer/renter they are going to have more accidents.
The Cirrus is a high performance plane aimed at a 'low performance market'
and I think that combination can bite new owners.
I think people buy the plane for a different mission than the average
C172 renter/owner and push the envelope to far to fast. But is that
really the planes fault. How many treads have there been about doctors
(or other people 'with money') earning their PPL then buying a used V35
and going out and killing themselves. Is that the planes fault? It's an
old design, some with non-standard (ie. not T) instrument layouts, a flip
over yoke, etc. etc. But if I said, the V35 series is poorly designed,
you can tell by the number of people that the plane kills, no one would
support that.
Sure there are multiple design defects that can come into play. The
Grumman AA1 is a very slippery trainer, that should NEVER be spun. Is
that a design defect?
Bottomline is none of us know what happened, and yes Cirrus does have a
higher number of incidents/accidents that others, but that does not
necessarily mean the design is bad. It very well could be, but the FAA
and NTSB don't seem to think so (at least not yet).