Is Ceconite and Peel Ply the same thing?

[Lou]

Is Ceconite and Peel Ply the same thing?

[pbc76049]

"Lou" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Is Ceconite and Peel Ply the same thing?
>

No.
Peel ply is a product that does not stick to composite material
and is used as a barrier cloth to eliminate the need to sand material for
secondary bonds.
Ceconite is a synthetic covering material that is heat shrunk onto open wood
or tube feame structures
in place of Grade A Cotton. It is then finished with dope and top coats.

[[email protected]]

Lou wrote:
> Is Ceconite and Peel Ply the same thing?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes. You may also use generic '100% polyester' or 'Dacron' (DuPont's
brand name for 100% polyester fabric). Select the fabric weight
according to the 'tooth' required; the lighter the weight of the
fabric, the finer the weave. Most use the heavy (3.7oz) fabric for
peel-ply on hand lay-ups but there are literally hundreds of different
weaves/weights available and anything other than knits will serve as
peel-ply. If vacuum bagging be careful not to use too light a
peel-ply. When completely encapsulated in resin 1.8oz dacron often
tears rather than peeling.

Some shops reuse their strips of peel-ply but when making sections of
leading edge I got better results using a new strip for each lay-up.

-R.S.Hoover

[pbc76049]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Lou wrote:
>> Is Ceconite and Peel Ply the same thing?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes. You may also use generic '100% polyester' or 'Dacron' (DuPont's
> brand name for 100% polyester fabric). Select the fabric weight
> according to the 'tooth' required; the lighter the weight of the
> fabric, the finer the weave. Most use the heavy (3.7oz) fabric for
> peel-ply on hand lay-ups but there are literally hundreds of different
> weaves/weights available and anything other than knits will serve as
> peel-ply. If vacuum bagging be careful not to use too light a
> peel-ply. When completely encapsulated in resin 1.8oz dacron often
> tears rather than peeling.
>
> Some shops reuse their strips of peel-ply but when making sections of
> leading edge I got better results using a new strip for each lay-up.
>
> -R.S.Hoover
>

There is a downside to what you are saying. Ceconite has surfactants and
"sizing" on it that has the potential to react badly with vinylester resins.
This stuff
isn't found on BARE CLOTH. Mr Hoover will is absolutely correct about
untreated polyester fabric, but I find that branded cloth isn't really a
good idea
as I have had problems with secondary bonds using Ceconite. YMMV.

[Cy Galley]

Interesting, Burt said one could use ceconite or a cheaper uncertified rib tapes. I never had any problems either way.


"pbc76049" > wrote in message ...
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>
>> Lou wrote:
>>> Is Ceconite and Peel Ply the same thing?
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Yes. You may also use generic '100% polyester' or 'Dacron' (DuPont's
>> brand name for 100% polyester fabric). Select the fabric weight
>> according to the 'tooth' required; the lighter the weight of the
>> fabric, the finer the weave. Most use the heavy (3.7oz) fabric for
>> peel-ply on hand lay-ups but there are literally hundreds of different
>> weaves/weights available and anything other than knits will serve as
>> peel-ply. If vacuum bagging be careful not to use too light a
>> peel-ply. When completely encapsulated in resin 1.8oz dacron often
>> tears rather than peeling.
>>
>> Some shops reuse their strips of peel-ply but when making sections of
>> leading edge I got better results using a new strip for each lay-up.
>>
>> -R.S.Hoover
>>
>
> There is a downside to what you are saying. Ceconite has surfactants and
> "sizing" on it that has the potential to react badly with vinylester resins.
> This stuff
> isn't found on BARE CLOTH. Mr Hoover will is absolutely correct about
> untreated polyester fabric, but I find that branded cloth isn't really a
> good idea
> as I have had problems with secondary bonds using Ceconite. YMMV.
>
>

[Richard Lamb]

I hadn't heard of any contamination problems using commercial fabric as
peel ply, but then I haven't built and all plastic plane.

I do recall someone mentioning that the cheap polyester dress material
thaqt he used had a problem with the print patern bleeding into the
resin layer - pretty (maybe) but no secondary adhesion problems.

If this is really a concern, I'd sure like to hear more about it.



Richard

[Lou]

I was looking more in the opposite direction, using the peel ply for a
covering.
At the same time I'm looking into the Hipec system. I'm starting to
read good things about it, especially weight.

[Tim Ward]

"Lou" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I was looking more in the opposite direction, using the peel ply for a
> covering.

One thing you may want to consider is whether or not the polyester is
pre-shrunk. This would be okay for peel-ply, but might be a problem if you
want a nice tight covering.

Tim Ward

[Highflyer]

"pbc76049" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>
>> Lou wrote:
>>> Is Ceconite and Peel Ply the same thing?
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Yes. You may also use generic '100% polyester' or 'Dacron' (DuPont's
>> brand name for 100% polyester fabric). Select the fabric weight
>> according to the 'tooth' required; the lighter the weight of the
>> fabric, the finer the weave. Most use the heavy (3.7oz) fabric for
>> peel-ply on hand lay-ups but there are literally hundreds of different
>> weaves/weights available and anything other than knits will serve as
>> peel-ply. If vacuum bagging be careful not to use too light a
>> peel-ply. When completely encapsulated in resin 1.8oz dacron often
>> tears rather than peeling.
>>
>> Some shops reuse their strips of peel-ply but when making sections of
>> leading edge I got better results using a new strip for each lay-up.
>>
>> -R.S.Hoover
>>
>
> There is a downside to what you are saying. Ceconite has surfactants and
> "sizing" on it that has the potential to react badly with vinylester
> resins. This stuff
> isn't found on BARE CLOTH. Mr Hoover will is absolutely correct about
> untreated polyester fabric, but I find that branded cloth isn't really a
> good idea
> as I have had problems with secondary bonds using Ceconite. YMMV.
>

Ceconite is also considerably more expensive than 100% polyester fabric from
your local fabric store. The main difference between polyester fabric for
aircraft covering and polyester fabric for sewing clothing is the final
heated calendar rolls in the process where they preshrink the clothing
fabric so that your clothes won't get six sizes smaller when you iron them!
:-) Both Ceconite and Polyfiber fabric made for the Stits process do have
surfactants to promote adhesion with the initial coat of dope or polybrush
as the case may be. Neither adheres very well to polyester fabric. Nothing
adheres very well to polyester fabric, although I have found that dirty
motor oil from the belly of my Stinson Reliant adheres better than anything
else I have found.

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

[Roger]

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:07:40 -0600, "Highflyer" > wrote:

>
>"pbc76049" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>>
>>> Lou wrote:
>>>> Is Ceconite and Peel Ply the same thing?
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yes. You may also use generic '100% polyester' or 'Dacron' (DuPont's
>>> brand name for 100% polyester fabric). Select the fabric weight
>>> according to the 'tooth' required; the lighter the weight of the
>>> fabric, the finer the weave. Most use the heavy (3.7oz) fabric for
>>> peel-ply on hand lay-ups but there are literally hundreds of different
>>> weaves/weights available and anything other than knits will serve as
>>> peel-ply. If vacuum bagging be careful not to use too light a
>>> peel-ply. When completely encapsulated in resin 1.8oz dacron often
>>> tears rather than peeling.
>>>
>>> Some shops reuse their strips of peel-ply but when making sections of
>>> leading edge I got better results using a new strip for each lay-up.
>>>
>>> -R.S.Hoover
>>>
>>
>> There is a downside to what you are saying. Ceconite has surfactants and
>> "sizing" on it that has the potential to react badly with vinylester
>> resins. This stuff
>> isn't found on BARE CLOTH. Mr Hoover will is absolutely correct about
>> untreated polyester fabric, but I find that branded cloth isn't really a
>> good idea
>> as I have had problems with secondary bonds using Ceconite. YMMV.
>>
>
>Ceconite is also considerably more expensive than 100% polyester fabric from
>your local fabric store. The main difference between polyester fabric for
>aircraft covering and polyester fabric for sewing clothing is the final
>heated calendar rolls in the process where they preshrink the clothing
>fabric so that your clothes won't get six sizes smaller when you iron them!
>:-) Both Ceconite and Polyfiber fabric made for the Stits process do have
>surfactants to promote adhesion with the initial coat of dope or polybrush
>as the case may be. Neither adheres very well to polyester fabric. Nothing
>adheres very well to polyester fabric, although I have found that dirty
>motor oil from the belly of my Stinson Reliant adheres better than anything
>else I have found.

I use the Polyester fabrics from the local fabric shop rather than
purchasing peel ply.

I use it in a number of weights and have found that I can pick a
selection of fabrics that can go from a very rough surface (coarse
weave) to almost smooth (fine weave), but going to extremes in either
direction can produce a fabric that won't easily let go if at all, or
one that tears easily.

part way down on
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/G3_files/G3-11_files/glasair11.htm shows
the results of a medium weave which is the one I use most often. It's
also a great way to "wick off" excess resin.

In the wing root attach area I used a very coarse weave which leaves a
very rough surface which gives very strong bonds.
>

Looks like I'm going to have to purchase a new set of elevator hinges
though. I've darn near worn the originals out just fitting the things
together.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>Highflyer
>Highflight Aviation Services
>Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )
>