OT - Anyone here own a restaurant?

[Jay Honeck]

So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the
Tower", and it'll have a great view of the runways!

Trouble of it is, we don't know *anything* about running a restaurant.
Now, this never stopped us before -- we didn't know anything about
hotels, either -- but, hey, this sounds WAY more complicated, from my
uneducated standpoint.

Anyone here own/operate/manage a restaurant? Got any words of advice?
Any advice on finding someone who DOES know something about
restaurants?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" > said:
>Anyone here own/operate/manage a restaurant? Got any words of advice?

You know how you make a small fortune in the restaurant business? Start
with a large one.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I have a longstanding agreement with tequila:
I won't drink it, and it won't make me sick.
-- Brian Kantor

[Jack Brown]

Jay,
Fly down to Houston Co. airport in TN (M93). Just off the west end of
the runway is the Southerair motel. Not much of a motel, but they
know the restaurant business like no one else. Best food at
reasonable prices that a pilot - or anyone - could want. Talk to
Leroy (the cook) or Sandy (one of the waitresses) and find out why it
works so well. We go at lest twice a month just for breakfast, and
there's always other pilots there as well, and hunters, and locals...

I think the secret is good food, fair portions, fast service and at
least one table that will seat 4 plane's worth of pilots. But - just
the fly-in crowd won't be enough.

jb


On 10 Jan 2006 14:59:44 -0800, "Jay Honeck" >
wrote:

>So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
>aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
>restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
>a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the
>Tower", and it'll have a great view of the runways!
>
>Trouble of it is, we don't know *anything* about running a restaurant.
>Now, this never stopped us before -- we didn't know anything about
>hotels, either -- but, hey, this sounds WAY more complicated, from my
>uneducated standpoint.
>
>Anyone here own/operate/manage a restaurant? Got any words of advice?
> Any advice on finding someone who DOES know something about
>restaurants?

[Flyingmonk]

Never had experience running nor managing one, but I did; wash dishes,
waited tables, kitchen prepped, cooked, tended bars, delivered
foods...etc from high school to college years. I managed construction
busineses as forman, supintendent, project manager, general manager and
was even a VP of a company once, but not in the food business.
Anyways, I digress.

I ate at a lot of restaurants and have friends who own them. You're
managing the "breakfast" part of restauranteuring already "breakfast in
bed". I would imagine that the one of the forseeable problem would be
properly managing the food supply. Too much ~ spoilage, too little ~
unsatisfied guess. A good manager will have the right amount of each
ingredient on hand and be able to anticipate when/what to order. Got a
particular question?

The Monk

[William Bruce]

Jay:

The restaurant business is challenging to say the least. Make sure you know
what you're getting into. The following sites will give you proformas for
the restaurant industry.

http://www.bizstats.com/
http://sbdcnet.utsa.edu/default.htm
http://www.activemedia-guide.com/

By the way, we have a classy FBO for sale in West Tennessee if anybody is
looking for one in that area. Contact me off group for details if
interested.

William Bruce
Accredited Business Intermediary
Sunbelt Business Brokers




"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
> aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
> restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
> a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the
> Tower", and it'll have a great view of the runways!
>
> Trouble of it is, we don't know *anything* about running a restaurant.
> Now, this never stopped us before -- we didn't know anything about
> hotels, either -- but, hey, this sounds WAY more complicated, from my
> uneducated standpoint.
>
> Anyone here own/operate/manage a restaurant? Got any words of advice?
> Any advice on finding someone who DOES know something about
> restaurants?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Darkwing]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
> aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
> restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
> a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the
> Tower", and it'll have a great view of the runways!
>
> Trouble of it is, we don't know *anything* about running a restaurant.
> Now, this never stopped us before -- we didn't know anything about
> hotels, either -- but, hey, this sounds WAY more complicated, from my
> uneducated standpoint.
>
> Anyone here own/operate/manage a restaurant? Got any words of advice?
> Any advice on finding someone who DOES know something about
> restaurants?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

Go to some food shows, you'll be amazed of the excellent food you can get
that is precooked or mass prepared. Sysco foods is a good start. They can
help you with menus, food deliveries, cooking equipment (that is a huge
expense).

We have a small restaurant as a supplement to one of our businesses and on
weekends it is very busy but for the amount of work the register receipts
are lousy (when compared to our other business). You have to sell a lot of
$4.00 hamburgers, $2.00 hotdogs etc. to make a decent amount of money.

--------------------------------------------------
DW

[Jim Burns]

Kidnap all those "babes" from LNR and move them down to IOW?
Sorry buddy,
Couldn't resist but can't help ya other than saying fresh is best, frozen
will kill ya.
Jim

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
> aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
> restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
> a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the
> Tower", and it'll have a great view of the runways!
>
> Trouble of it is, we don't know *anything* about running a restaurant.
> Now, this never stopped us before -- we didn't know anything about
> hotels, either -- but, hey, this sounds WAY more complicated, from my
> uneducated standpoint.
>
> Anyone here own/operate/manage a restaurant? Got any words of advice?
> Any advice on finding someone who DOES know something about
> restaurants?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Montblack]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
> So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
> aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
> restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and a
> 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the Tower",
> and it'll have a great view of the runways!


Hmm.... that name needs work :-)

Q. What do the numbers say?
A. "ARE YOU INSANE?" <g>

How about real estate instead? Buy those remaining airport lots (20 acres?)
and build 40 airpark homes on the site. I know, I know - zoning.

Since this will be your last newsgroup post before you enter 'the restaurant
business' I want to wish you - Good Luck!


Montblack

Jack Nicholson in Five Easy Pieces (1970)

[Bobby wants plain toast, which isn't on the menu.]
Bobby: I'd like an omelet, plain, and a chicken salad sandwich on wheat
toast, no mayonnaise, no butter, no lettuce. And a cup of coffee.

Waitress: A #2, chicken salad sand. Hold the butter, the lettuce, the
mayonnaise, and a cup of coffee. Anything else?

Bobby: Yeah, now all you have to do is hold the chicken, bring me the
toast, give me a check for the chicken salad sandwich, and you haven't
broken any rules...

[Kevin Dunlevy]

I've represented banks in loan workouts with restaurants. Restaurants exist
primarily on the good will of the public. There is no collateral of value.
The accounts receivable and inventory are fleeting. The forks, knives and
tables are worthless. Much of the business is done in cash, which often
ends up in the pocket of the owner (or worse, stolen by employees) without
having been income taxed or paid to the bank on the loan. About 95% of new
restaurants fail in the first year, except big operation franchises because
the big operations are very particular about the locations of their
franchises. Location is critical. You will not get the whim of the public
to partake of your enterprise if it is not well located. Only the
cognoscenti will go to your establishment if quality is your main draw over
location.



You ought to go to some restaurants that are located on or near airports
similar to yours and talk the owners about their operations. Your operation
is unique because not many aviation themed hotels exist in the world and
even fewer are located next to airports. I frequently fly to Eau Claire
Wisconsin, because the airport restaurant is only about an hour from the
Twin Cities, and the locals go there. It is a full service restaurant, but
I've never had a beer there. The best beer they serve is Leinenkugels. Many
restaurant operations make more on their beverage service than on food.



A coffee only cafe is located at the Brainerd Minnesota airport. It has good
food and good service at reasonable prices. I also fly to Princeton
Minnesota for the restaurants there, one two blocks and the other six blocks
from the airport. One serves alcohol and the other is a family place with
great pancakes. Service is often slow at these small town restaurants, so
you should place your order as soon as you sit down, and give your credit
card when the food is served.



I often feel compelled to have a hamburger when I go flying because that is
often the safest thing on the menu. I've also learned to tolerate small-town
ditch-water coffee from flying. When I grew up in a small town with bad
water in North Dakota, I thought Mrs. Olsen's coffee was great. Now, thanks
to Starbucks and Caribou, Mrs. Olsen's coffee is less enticing. I wonder if
she knows how to make lefse.



It would be really nice to have some good Walleye at an airport restaurant.
Kevin Dunlevy









"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
> aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
> restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
> a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the
> Tower", and it'll have a great view of the runways!
>
> Trouble of it is, we don't know *anything* about running a restaurant.
> Now, this never stopped us before -- we didn't know anything about
> hotels, either -- but, hey, this sounds WAY more complicated, from my
> uneducated standpoint.
>
> Anyone here own/operate/manage a restaurant? Got any words of advice?
> Any advice on finding someone who DOES know something about
> restaurants?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Grumman-581]

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
> So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
> aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
> restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
> a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the
> Tower", and it'll have a great view of the runways!

Will it be adjacent to the airport property and as such will pilots be able
to taxi up there to the restaurant, tie their plane down, and eat? Being
able to tie your plane down overnight while staying at your hotel would be
an added benefit... One thing that you might want to consider is
differentiating your restaurant from other local restaurants by way of
menu... My experience up there in Iowa while on contract for Rockwell
Collins was that there are NO good BBQ restaurants in the entire state. OK,
I'm from Texas, so my standards are probably pretty high, but those people
up there think a chunk of pork roasted in an electric oven with BBQ sauce
poured on it afterwards classifies as "BBQ"... Of course, everyone knows
that the only *real* BBQ is made from BEEF BRISKET...

[Blanche]

Does the university have a program in hospitality? If so, the
faculty will probably have the experience you need. Otherwise,
you may want to contact some of the schools (Johnson & Wales,
Colorado Culinary Arts, Food Network, etc) about it.

It's a business -- you need a business plan, etc.

You may also want to contact some of the more successful
restaurants at airports. These shops really do a very
large catering business for the bizjets, etc. in addition to
the walk-in crowd. "Perfect Landing" at APA is a great
example. They used to be open only for breakfast & lunch but
last year also opened for dinner (usually only the locals will
be there for dinner). Booming business.

If the school has a hotel & restaurant program, then they'll
be delighted to use you as an internship source! Experience
for the students, affordable labor for you.

[Grumman-581]

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message ...
> if you have no idea on how to run it: stay away from it, better: run!
> I've been in far too many hotels/restaurants with poor management followed
> by poor service and crap meals (here in Europe and in the US). And with no
> fundamental training you might succeed with a hotel, but not with a
> restaurant, at least here in central Europe.

Awh, 'ell, Jay's in Iowa... When in doubt, serve corn and the locals will be
happy... It's not like they know what *real* BBQ is all about...

[Tom Conner]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...
> "Martin Hotze" wrote in message ...
> > if you have no idea on how to run it: stay away from it,
> > better: run! I've been in far too many hotels/restaurants with
> > poor management followed by poor service and crap meals (here in
> > Europe and in the US). And with no fundamental training you might
> > succeed with a hotel, but not with a restaurant, at least here in
> > central Europe.
>
> Awh, 'ell, Jay's in Iowa... When in doubt, serve corn and the locals
> will be happy... It's not like they know what *real* BBQ is all about...

But is that a viable business plan? To me, it would make more sense to
physically integrate the restaurant with the hotel. Then, the locals can
eat and enjoy themselves, while visitors are not inconvenienced.

[Happy Dog]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:

> Anyone here own/operate/manage a restaurant? Got any words of advice?
> Any advice on finding someone who DOES know something about
> restaurants?

Loads of experience. Want to do it yourself? Likely OK. Want to hire
people to run it for you. Not OK. That's it in a nutshell. I can spare a
few moments on private email if you wish.

moo

[Stubby]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
> aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
> restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
> a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the
> Tower", and it'll have a great view of the runways!
>
> Trouble of it is, we don't know *anything* about running a restaurant.
> Now, this never stopped us before -- we didn't know anything about
> hotels, either -- but, hey, this sounds WAY more complicated, from my
> uneducated standpoint.
>
> Anyone here own/operate/manage a restaurant? Got any words of advice?
> Any advice on finding someone who DOES know something about
> restaurants?

There are quite a few discouraging remarks on this subject. If only
guaranteed successes were executed, we wouldn't have any businesses at all.

My advice is to analyze restaurants of this ilk that have failed. I
know the 4th Fighter Group did and it was located right next to Orlando
Executive Airport. (Totally out of control at the end... the waiter and
the cook were shoving each other!)

And look for a partner that knows the business. Maybe give him/her a
slice of the Inn in turn for running the restaurant.

Finally, figure out just how bad the damage will be if it does fail.
Consider the impact on your family... does that mean your kids won't go
to college because you blew all your savings?

[Jay Honeck]

> You have to sell a lot of $4.00 hamburgers, $2.00 hotdogs etc. to make a
> decent amount of money.

True. However, I see a restaurant as a necessary adjunct to the Inn, nothing
more.

If it were to merely break even -- but double out hotel business -- I'd be a
happy guy. :-)

God knows it's a great location. They're building a Super Wal-Mart down the
road from us (if it ever gets out of court), which should increase traffic,
oh, 5000% or so?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Stubby]

"Avilon"

--Bill

[Stubby]

"Death Wish Cafe"

[Jay Honeck]

> Will it be adjacent to the airport property and as such will pilots be
> able
> to taxi up there to the restaurant, tie their plane down, and eat?

Sadly, no. But it will be right across a small road from the fence, and
we've tentatively received permission to allow planes to park on the other
side of the fence. (We'll have to put in a gate.)

It'll be maybe a 100 yard walk.

> One thing that you might want to consider is
> differentiating your restaurant from other local restaurants by way of
> menu... My experience up there in Iowa while on contract for Rockwell
> Collins was that there are NO good BBQ restaurants in the entire state.

Agreed, but from a slightly different angle.

Iowa City is like the "anti-Iowa" in many ways. It's got dozens of
"fru-fru" restaurants (a rarity in the rest of Iowa), thanks to the
University crowd, all of which serve tiny portions at outrageous prices.
You can get excellent Indian, Vegetarian, Mediterranean, Japanese, French,
and California (whatever *that* is) cuisine -- but you CAN'T get a decent
burger or breakfast served all day for less than $15 per person.

IMHO, a restaurant with those two items, reasonably priced and served fresh,
would make a mint in this goofy town.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Darkwing]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:Qv7xf.690299$x96.490384@attbi_s72...
>> You have to sell a lot of $4.00 hamburgers, $2.00 hotdogs etc. to make a
>> decent amount of money.
>
> True. However, I see a restaurant as a necessary adjunct to the Inn,
> nothing more.
>
> If it were to merely break even -- but double out hotel business -- I'd be
> a happy guy. :-)
>
> God knows it's a great location. They're building a Super Wal-Mart down
> the road from us (if it ever gets out of court), which should increase
> traffic, oh, 5000% or so?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"


Our restaurant is just a convenience to our customers as well. Like I said
it is not a big money maker but it is just another nice perk for our
customers.

There is a really nice restaurant at MIE (Vince's if I recall correctly)
that gets more local non-aviation folks as customers than anything else. It
is an upscale dinner restaurant that really seems to work well with lots of
old aviation memorabilia.

-------------------------------------
DW

[Stubby]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>Will it be adjacent to the airport property and as such will pilots be
>>able
>>to taxi up there to the restaurant, tie their plane down, and eat?
>
>
> Sadly, no. But it will be right across a small road from the fence, and
> we've tentatively received permission to allow planes to park on the other
> side of the fence. (We'll have to put in a gate.)
>
> It'll be maybe a 100 yard walk.
>
>
>>One thing that you might want to consider is
>>differentiating your restaurant from other local restaurants by way of
>>menu... My experience up there in Iowa while on contract for Rockwell
>>Collins was that there are NO good BBQ restaurants in the entire state.
>
>
> Agreed, but from a slightly different angle.
>
> Iowa City is like the "anti-Iowa" in many ways. It's got dozens of
> "fru-fru" restaurants (a rarity in the rest of Iowa), thanks to the
> University crowd, all of which serve tiny portions at outrageous prices.
> You can get excellent Indian, Vegetarian, Mediterranean, Japanese, French,
> and California (whatever *that* is) cuisine -- but you CAN'T get a decent
> burger or breakfast served all day for less than $15 per person.
>
> IMHO, a restaurant with those two items, reasonably priced and served fresh,
> would make a mint in this goofy town.

Nancy's Airfield Cafe at K6B6 is a fine place to eat. I believe most
of their business comes from surrounding towns rather the planes.
Contact Nancy McPherson for more info. Web:
http://www.NancysAirfieldCafe.com

[Gig 601XL Builder]

I agree a restaurant is a great idea. But the business is tough.

If I were you I'd build the restaurant and lease it to someone with proven
experience in the biz.



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:Qv7xf.690299$x96.490384@attbi_s72...
>> You have to sell a lot of $4.00 hamburgers, $2.00 hotdogs etc. to make a
>> decent amount of money.
>
> True. However, I see a restaurant as a necessary adjunct to the Inn,
> nothing more.
>
> If it were to merely break even -- but double out hotel business -- I'd be
> a happy guy. :-)
>
> God knows it's a great location. They're building a Super Wal-Mart down
> the road from us (if it ever gets out of court), which should increase
> traffic, oh, 5000% or so?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jay Honeck]

> If I were you I'd build the restaurant and lease it to someone with proven
> experience in the biz.

Great idea.

Where do you find these mythic creatures?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> IMHO, a restaurant with those two items, reasonably
> priced and served fresh, would make a mint in this goofy town.

A good friend has been in the restaurant business for a couple of
decades and has had two small, successful restaurants during that time.
She said aside from having A LOT of time and energy and the obvious
issues -- an adequate-but-not-overwhelming menu with fair prices,
reliable cooks that prepare consistently good meals, *consistently*
friendly and efficient service, hours that meet the demand, and an
environment that is clean and comfortable -- the biggest key to making
it a success is knowing how to ORDER. I think someone else early in this
thread said it, too -- knowing how much to order so that perishable food
lasts but does not spoil and your next order is received before you run
out, and even your garnishes (lettuce, tomatoes, parsley, etc.) are
fresh and edible and don't look like they're one step away from being
rotten. One quote of hers that we've all experienced: "It's okay if
people have to wait a few minutes to sit down, but NEVER make anyone
*wait* to pay once they're full and ready to leave!" Lastly, NEVER be
cited in a health inspection as that kind news is never forgotten.

Good luck! I've always thought that despite the long hours and hard
work, it could be rewarding and fun, especially with a theme that you
and your customers love.

[Jose]

I've never run a restaurant, but I've heard it's a very slim margin
business. I've been a restaurant customer in many restaurants that have
run up against their margins. They had one choice: either raise their
prices, or lower their quality. Every restaurant that chose the latter
failed.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jose]

One other thing... I have noticed that many of the basic hotels I've
been around have no restaurant attached to them, but are built in an
area that has lots of separate basic restaurants nearby. I'll bet
there's a reason for this.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[John T]

"babes" at LNR??? OK...I'm assuming there's supposed to be a smiley face
somewhere!

[Richard Riley]

On 10 Jan 2006 14:59:44 -0800, "Jay Honeck" >
wrote:

:So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
:aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
:restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
:a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the
:Tower", and it'll have a great view of the runways!
:
:Trouble of it is, we don't know *anything* about running a restaurant.
:Now, this never stopped us before -- we didn't know anything about
:hotels, either -- but, hey, this sounds WAY more complicated, from my
:uneducated standpoint.
:
:Anyone here own/operate/manage a restaurant? Got any words of advice?
: Any advice on finding someone who DOES know something about
:restaurants?

Two thoughts quick -

1) Contain food costs. The fastest way to go broke in the restaurant
business is to open a steak house. The slowest way is to open a pasta
joint.

2) You're looking *building* a restaurant, not just running one. If
you were just leasing a pre-existing restaurant space and opening a
new business the odds would be against you. If you were leasing and
putting in a kitchen and fixtures, it would be worse. But you're
talking brick and mortar, AND the inside build out, AND running a
restaurant. If it fails you don't just have a lease to pay (or walk
away from) - you have a mortgage.

[Jim Burns]

Ahhh.... sounds like you've been there! :)

"John T" > wrote in message
...
> "babes" at LNR??? OK...I'm assuming there's supposed to be a smiley face
> somewhere!
>

[Nathan Young]

On 10 Jan 2006 14:59:44 -0800, "Jay Honeck" >
wrote:

>So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
>aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
>restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
>a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport.

If you are going to depend on the pilot community - be careful what
you deem a fly-in restaurant. When I think fly-in food, places that
are across the street or down the street, do not jump to mind.

-Nathan

[Darkwing]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:EO9xf.690601$x96.350292@attbi_s72...
>> If I were you I'd build the restaurant and lease it to someone with
>> proven experience in the biz.
>
> Great idea.
>
> Where do you find these mythic creatures?
> --
> Jay Honeck


When your ready to learn more and go on to the next phase call Sysco Foods
or McFarland, they help people START restaurants.

---------------------------------------------
DW

[John T]

As long as the resturaunt is easily accesible for the non-aviation folks.

[Grumman-581]

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...
> If you are going to depend on the pilot community - be careful what
> you deem a fly-in restaurant. When I think fly-in food, places that
> are across the street or down the street, do not jump to mind.

A fly-in restaurant should allow you to park your plane right outside the
restaurant... You should even be able to see it while you're eating...
Carl's BBQ at EYQ is one such place... The problem with a lot of airport
restaurants is that non-aviation people rarely go there and as such, they
have trouble making it... There's just not enough pilots around to make your
entire business dependent upon them... You need to have a restaurant that
will appeal to the local population... Carl's BBQ is one such place...

The restaurant at New Orleans Lakefront Airport (NEW) probably has the best
view of the field of any airport that I've experienced... There is a massive
floor to ceiling glass wall overlooking the runway and Lake Pontchartrain...
Lunch usually consists of a reasonably priced buffet that is reasonably
appetizing... The lunch crowd seemed to be mainly people who worked in and
around the airport, although since there are a lot of workers around there,
they could get away with it I guess...

[Stubby]

Jose wrote:
> I've never run a restaurant, but I've heard it's a very slim margin
> business. I've been a restaurant customer in many restaurants that have
> run up against their margins. They had one choice: either raise their
> prices, or lower their quality. Every restaurant that chose the latter
> failed.

Slim margins are OK. You just have to do it over and over and over and
over .... again. Grocery stores are good at it.

[Jose]

> Slim margins are OK. You just have to do it over and over and over and over .... again. Grocery stores are good at it.

True. But you have to do it right =every= time.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Brad]

>>We want to call it "the Tower"

Hey! That was my name submission from the contest.

I better get a free dinner Jay!

Brad

[John T]

Yep, I fly at C29, not far from LNR

[Darkwing]

"Brad" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>>>We want to call it "the Tower"
>
> Hey! That was my name submission from the contest.
>
> I better get a free dinner Jay!
>
> Brad
>

If the food sucks people might call it the Barf Bag!

------------------------------------
DW

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Not a clue but I'd guess there are restaurant management magazines out there
where you could advertise for them.


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:EO9xf.690601$x96.350292@attbi_s72...
>> If I were you I'd build the restaurant and lease it to someone with
>> proven experience in the biz.
>
> Great idea.
>
> Where do you find these mythic creatures?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Montblack]

("Darkwing" wrote)
> If the food sucks people might call it the Barf Bag!


Call it ....Doolittles Air Cafe - I know where there's a big neon sign soon
to be available. <g>
http://www.doolittlesaircafe.com/giftcards/


Montblack

[Al Meuli]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
> aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
> restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
> a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the
> Tower", and it'll have a great view of the runways!
>
Jay,

It sounds like a winner just to buy the land if the traffic around it is
going to increase a lot.

As far as a great aviation-themed restaurant goes, check out the Hnagar
Bar & Grill in Rochester, MN. It is off-airport, but the FBO will shuttle
you over.

Al

[Don Tuite]

Jay needs to schedule a survey flight. In California, I'd recommend
the restaurants at Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, San Carlos (open
for breakfast and lunch only), and Petaluma. Any others?

In Oregon, there was Salishan, but I don't know how that is these
days.

Don

[Jose]

El Monte, California (EMT) has a nice restaurant on the field. Fairly
new, surprisingly good.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jay Honeck]

> One other thing... I have noticed that many of the basic hotels I've been
> around have no restaurant attached to them, but are built in an area that
> has lots of separate basic restaurants nearby. I'll bet there's a reason
> for this.

That's what we are now. In fact, within 1 mile of the inn, there are
currently over 50 restaurants. Six of them are within walking distance.

It's a university town. Unemployment is non-existent, everyone works for
the Gummint, and there are lots of underworked, over-paid people that have
time on their hands, yet eat out every meal.

Unfortunately, most nearby restaurants are either "bottom feeders"
(McDonalds/Wendy's/KFC/etc.), or "top feeders" (fru-fru restaurants with
tiny portions and over-sized prices). There are no "middle of the road"
restaurants, which (IMHO) presents an opportunity.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Yep, I fly at C29, not far from LNR

Ah, Picadilly Lilly's, home of "hubcap pancakes", ugly waitresses, and
sticky bathroom floors.

How I love the place! We go there whenever we can.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> If you are going to depend on the pilot community - be careful what
> you deem a fly-in restaurant. When I think fly-in food, places that
> are across the street or down the street, do not jump to mind.

One thing I've learned from 3+ years of operating an aviation-themed, fly-in
hotel, is that you cannot count on the pilot community for business --
period. I wish it were otherwise, but dem's da facts -- there just aren't
enough of us.

Maybe in places like Kalifonia and Arizona you can get enough fly-in
business (although I doubt it), but certainly not in the Midwest. Our
aviation theme is a lot of fun, and it serves as a great "hook" for a great
many people -- but 95% of those people are NOT pilots.

No, the restaurant would be for the city folks (and our guests) to come
watch the planes -- not the other way 'round.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> As long as the resturaunt is easily accesible for the non-aviation folks.

Yep, that's the strength of our hotel -- and that would also be the strength
of this restaurant.

It's also the strength of our airport, BTW -- it's located less than 1 mile
from downtown, the university, and dozens of restaurants.

Of course, that very proximity to town is what will ultimately kill our
airport, too.

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Call it ....Doolittles Air Cafe - I know where there's a big neon sign
> soon to be available. <g>
> http://www.doolittlesaircafe.com/giftcards/

Yeah -- I wonder if they want to recycle their restaurant down by us?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Burns]

Just a thought about those hubcap sized pancakes... when something is very
cheap to make, make them big or give the customer a huge helping.... I
often hear reports of different restaurants having a huge this or a huge
that and people go back time after time, almost as a novelty attraction.

Now the potato plug....you'd be amazed how many restaurant
owners/operators/cooks come buy potatoes from us yet fail to realize how
cheap they are.... the typical 8 oz baked potato that comes with a steak
dinner wholesales for less than $0.08 yes eight cents. You can give the
customer a 16 oz potato for $0.15 and really WOW them. ( a 16oz potato is
about the size of a man's hand ) Fresh mashed potatoes or hashbrowns can be
made from cheaper potatoes yet, about $0.05 per lb

Jim





"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:b9fxf.480305$084.65089@attbi_s22...
> > Yep, I fly at C29, not far from LNR
>
> Ah, Picadilly Lilly's, home of "hubcap pancakes", ugly waitresses, and
> sticky bathroom floors.
>
> How I love the place! We go there whenever we can.
>
> :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Ross Richardson]

There is a resturant on the field at Norman, OK. I believe it to be
successful because the University of Oklahoma is right nearby. We go for
the $100. breakfast. They serve lots of greasy breakfast food for not
much money. Fun place to fly.

There is one at Fayetteville (AR) Drake field that seems to struggle and
is not open on Sundays.

I always think these things should be open both weekend days.

I also have a friend that owns a marina, has a airport at the marina,
and a resturant. He is always complaining about the cost of running the
resturant, but it is there for the marina and airplane folks.

Good luck

Jay Honeck wrote:
> So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
> aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
> restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
> a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the
> Tower", and it'll have a great view of the runways!
>
> Trouble of it is, we don't know *anything* about running a restaurant.
> Now, this never stopped us before -- we didn't know anything about
> hotels, either -- but, hey, this sounds WAY more complicated, from my
> uneducated standpoint.
>
> Anyone here own/operate/manage a restaurant? Got any words of advice?
> Any advice on finding someone who DOES know something about
> restaurants?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>You have to sell a lot of $4.00 hamburgers, $2.00 hotdogs etc. to make a
>>decent amount of money.
>
>
> True. However, I see a restaurant as a necessary adjunct to the Inn, nothing
> more.
>
> If it were to merely break even -- but double out hotel business -- I'd be a
> happy guy. :-)
>
> God knows it's a great location. They're building a Super Wal-Mart down the
> road from us (if it ever gets out of court), which should increase traffic,
> oh, 5000% or so?

My sister-in-law manages a small restaurant and bakery. They are very
popular, almost always full with a line waiting at the door and just
barely break even. If they lost 20% of their business, they would lose
money. The margins are razor thin for a restaurant.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, just keep in mind that you will
likely lose money for a year or two and then break even or make a little
only if you are VERY popular, always busy and run a very tight ship.


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Brad wrote:

>>>We want to call it "the Tower"
>
>
> Hey! That was my name submission from the contest.
>
> I better get a free dinner Jay!

Be careful what you ask for. Jay just might offer you a job managing
the place!

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>One other thing... I have noticed that many of the basic hotels I've been
>>around have no restaurant attached to them, but are built in an area that
>>has lots of separate basic restaurants nearby. I'll bet there's a reason
>>for this.
>
>
> That's what we are now. In fact, within 1 mile of the inn, there are
> currently over 50 restaurants. Six of them are within walking distance.
>
> It's a university town. Unemployment is non-existent, everyone works for
> the Gummint, and there are lots of underworked, over-paid people that have
> time on their hands, yet eat out every meal.
>
> Unfortunately, most nearby restaurants are either "bottom feeders"
> (McDonalds/Wendy's/KFC/etc.), or "top feeders" (fru-fru restaurants with
> tiny portions and over-sized prices). There are no "middle of the road"
> restaurants, which (IMHO) presents an opportunity.

It may be an opportunity, or it may be that their is no market for a
middle of the road restaurant. Only one sure way to find out though...

:-)


Matt

[Morgans]

"Jose" > wrote in message
t...
> I've never run a restaurant, but I've heard it's a very slim margin
> business. I've been a restaurant customer in many restaurants that have
> run up against their margins. They had one choice: either raise their
> prices, or lower their quality. Every restaurant that chose the latter
> failed.

Yes, but do not be fooled into believing that there is no money to be made
in restaurants.

A neighbor had a cousin who was a good chef, and wanted to manage a
restaurant.
The neighbor had some money to invest, and it took off. He now is wealthy.

Find the chef, the manager will be easy, with you looking over the shoulder.
The rest will follow. You can find a great chef and lure him away from
where he is a success, with promises of some more say-so about the menu and
running of the restaurant, and a portion of the take, on top of a nice
salary, of course.

My vote is for a place that has not average or good steak, but fantastic
aged corn fed steak. That should not be hard to find in Iowa. Is there an
over supply of good steak restaurants around you? Think of it. Can you
give (within a millisecond) the recommendation of (one place) where you
would go for a slab? If not, the nitch is still available to be filled.

Like it or not, French cuisine is some of the best, IMHO. That can go with
steak, too.
--
Jim in NC

[Bob Noel]

In article >, "Morgans" >
wrote:

> My vote is for a place that has not average or good steak, but fantastic
> aged corn fed steak. That should not be hard to find in Iowa. Is there an
> over supply of good steak restaurants around you? Think of it. Can you
> give (within a millisecond) the recommendation of (one place) where you
> would go for a slab? If not, the nitch is still available to be filled.

How far will people drive in Iowa for good food, a good steak?

I know of a really good steak place in Cedar Rapids. Jay, would you be
able to compete with that place?

--
Bob Noel
New NHL? what a joke

[Grumman-581]

"Morgans" wrote in message ...
> My vote is for a place that has not average or good steak, but fantastic
> aged corn fed steak. That should not be hard to find in Iowa.

One might think so, but my experience up there is that beef isn't seen as
much as pork... Hell, they even thing that pork classifies as BBQ...

[George Patterson]

Kevin Dunlevy wrote:

> Much of the business is done in cash, which often
> ends up in the pocket of the owner (or worse, stolen by employees) ...

Yep, that's something to watch out for. There used to be a bar & grill beside
the entrance to Kupper airport. The owner had a local manager running the show,
and he was running a steady loss. So, he sold the place and closed down.

He let the manager go after the sale and ran the place himself for the last
month. He was amazed at how much money the place made. His manager had been
robbing him blind. Too late to stop the sale, though.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
> Iowa City is like the "anti-Iowa" in many ways. It's got dozens of
> "fru-fru" restaurants (a rarity in the rest of Iowa), thanks to the
> University crowd, all of which serve tiny portions at outrageous prices.
> You can get excellent Indian, Vegetarian, Mediterranean, Japanese, French,
> and California (whatever *that* is) cuisine -- but you CAN'T get a decent
> burger or breakfast served all day for less than $15 per person.
>
> IMHO, a restaurant with those two items, reasonably priced and served
> fresh, would make a mint in this goofy town.

I see a need for a dual restaurant. One, with a low profit margin, going
with the cheep burger and breakfast all day, more like a grill. Another
"fine food" with the killer atmosphere and fancy food, to suit the high
rollers that fly in for a fantasy weekend. Also, the people around town
that want to spend for the suite and/or a great meal, anniversary dinner, or
whatever have their night spot, and you get a higher profit margin.

The advantage of having a place to stay that has food on site has great
appeal. Having a grill for breakfast and lunch, then a 5 star meal at night
is a real draw, I think.

Will it be possible to have the plane parking for hotel use, also? That
sounds like another winner. A heated and AC walkway attached to the hotel
would be another plus.

As I see it, you need to purchase that land. There is no other buy that can
give you the possibilities like attached land can give you. For that plot,
all you can say is location, location, location! <g>, and it does not come
available, every day.

Sorry for rambling. Just a few thoughts.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Jose" > wrote

> One other thing... I have noticed that many of the basic hotels I've been
> around have no restaurant attached to them, but are built in an area that
> has lots of separate basic restaurants nearby. I'll bet there's a reason
> for this.

But Jay's hotel is anything but a basic hotel. I think opportunity lies
with this fact.

Still, he will need the walk in clients, but lots of other choices nearby
still do nothing to keep the parking lot from being full, if the formula is
right.
--
Jim in NC

[Dave S]

> My sister-in-law manages a small restaurant and bakery. They are very
> popular, almost always full with a line waiting at the door and just
> barely break even. If they lost 20% of their business, they would lose
> money. The margins are razor thin for a restaurant.
>
> Matt

Perhaps a small price increase might be worthwhile.. not enought to run
off business, but enough to get above break even.

Dave

[Jay Honeck]

> There is one at Fayetteville (AR) Drake field that seems to struggle and
> is not open on Sundays.
>
> I always think these things should be open both weekend days.

Isn't that nuts? There are precisely two days for a restaurant to make $$$
on breakfast, and so many of them choose to be closed on half of them.

Close Monday, if you must -- but never Sunday morning.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> The cafe sort of European style with _real_ coffee and real cups.

Amen to that. It's got to be real coffee, or nothing.

(And I don't mean the $3 per cup Starbucks stuff. To sell a cup of coffee
for $3 is worse than selling a bottle of water for a buck -- you're catering
to ignorance, IMHO.)

After floundering around the first year with local suppliers, I now get the
coffee we provide to our guests (in our delivered-to-the-suite continental
breakfast) from an outfit in California that specializes in excellent
coffees. It comes in filter packets that our guests use to brew their own
fresh pot (all of our suites have full kitchens), so they only drink the
freshest, best coffee available.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

Is there an
> over supply of good steak restaurants around you? Think of it. Can you
> give (within a millisecond) the recommendation of (one place) where you
> would go for a slab? If not, the nitch is still available to be filled.

Strangely, no. The only place in town that serves steaks is for sale right
now.

Remember, Iowa City is the "anti-Iowa". Everyone here (thanks to the U of
Iowa) is young, wealthy, and active. Places that serve healthy food (read:
small portions) are plentiful. Places that serve a good slider and eggs are
non-existent.

I personally think that, given that market hole, a restaurant that filled
that niche would be a runaway hit. Especially with the Wal-Mart crowd.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> I see a need for a dual restaurant. One, with a low profit margin, going
> with the cheep burger and breakfast all day, more like a grill. Another
> "fine food" with the killer atmosphere and fancy food, to suit the high
> rollers that fly in for a fantasy weekend. Also, the people around town
> that want to spend for the suite and/or a great meal, anniversary dinner,
> or whatever have their night spot, and you get a higher profit margin.

We also want to make the first floor available for banquets. Banquet halls
are in very short supply in Iowa City, for some reason.

> As I see it, you need to purchase that land. There is no other buy that
> can give you the possibilities like attached land can give you. For that
> plot, all you can say is location, location, location! <g>, and it does
> not come available, every day.

Absolutely. I see that land as key to our future business -- to the point
where if we DON'T get the land, we may as well close up shop. (Depending on
what would be built there, of course...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Flyingmonk]

Just curious Jay, I have no idea what the economy in IA is like, what
kind of money are we talking about?

The Monk

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Amen to that. It's got to be real coffee, or nothing.

http://www.badass-coffee.com/index2.htm

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> It's a university town. Unemployment is non-existent, everyone works for
> the Gummint, and there are lots of underworked, over-paid people that have
> time on their hands, yet eat out every meal.

But *your* customer base is mostly from elsewhere and doesn't fit that profile.
You should figure out what they are likely to want and try to provide that. You
are also in a unique position to match your hours of operation to the arrival
times of most of your guests, or perhaps provide room service at odd hours. I
still have unfond memories of checking into a hotel in Savanah five minutes
after the restaurant closed.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> We also want to make the first floor available for banquets. Banquet halls
> are in very short supply in Iowa City, for some reason.

In that case, you might collaborate with some local organization. Here, many
fraternal orgs (like the Knights of Columbus) rent out their meeting halls as
banquet halls. Perhaps you could do the reverse.

There's also a diner in Edison, NJ (called "The Pines" for some reason not
involving trees that I can see) that does exactly what you have in mind. Most of
the money comes from being a typical New Jersey diner, but they have room for
banquet hosting.

Jersey diners are real phenomenae. Large meals, lots of selections, reasonable
prices, and open long hours. Don't know how they do it.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Montblack]

("George Patterson" wrote)
> But *your* customer base is mostly from elsewhere and doesn't fit that
> profile.


I suspect 83% of his restaurant traffic will be local townsfolk.


Montblack

[Montblack]

("Flyingmonk" wrote)
> Just curious Jay, I have no idea what the economy in IA is like, what
> kind of money are we talking about?


One example:

<http://www.quadcommunitypress.com/main.asp?SectionID=8&subsectionID=9&articleID=1971>
"Aviation-themed restaurant eyed for airport"
[Info and numbers for a new cafe and event center being built at (ANE)
Anoka-Blaine Airport, MN]

http://www.flightlineltd.com/
The "new" company putting it all together. Stock available at $1.00/share.

Craig Schiller has run Golden Wings Museum/Banqutes business for 6 years and
helped organized the National Air Tour in 2003, along with being involved
(usually in charge) of many other aviation related endeavors - organizing
the Collings Foundation (B-17, B-24) at ANE, getting four Tri-Motors over to
Oshkosh in '05, President of 'Discover Aviation Days Open House' at ANE,
etc.

He also works for/manages:
http://www.historicaviation.com
Historic Aviation publication

www.AircraftOwner.com
"Place your Classified ad or Photo Listing in Aircraft Owner"


Montblack

[Blanche]

I've worked in my family's bakery, been a short-order cook and
a bartender. What you're proposing sounds fantastic...if it weren't
in Iowa, away from the mountains (75 min. door to door for skiing)
I'd be there post-haste!

Yes, you need the banquet space.

Start with breakfast & lunch OR only lunch & dinner. Once business gets
established, then go for more.

[Javier Henderson]

Don Tuite wrote:
> Jay needs to schedule a survey flight. In California, I'd recommend
> the restaurants at Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, San Carlos (open
> for breakfast and lunch only), and Petaluma. Any others?

The ones at SNS, MYF and CRQ for good food and a good view.

The one at CNO for huge portions of average food.

The one at CMA for good food and so-so view (you can view the ramp but
the runway is a ways away).

-jav

[[email protected]]

A previous poster said the fly-in crowd isn't enough. True, you'd need
a location with a fair-sized population to support you during the week
when we (pilots) aren't looking for $100 pancakes. IMO, a properly
marketed restaurant with good food & decent portions should do OK at an
airport with a large local population. It might take a bit to get the
word out though, and you'd need to be properly funded for that or risk
folding.


Wooly

[[email protected]]

Resturant name:

Hawk's Nest Resturant, bar is the Crow's Nest. :-)

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer<at>frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 235 Young Eagles!

[John Galban]

Montblack wrote:
> ("George Patterson" wrote)
> > But *your* customer base is mostly from elsewhere and doesn't fit that
> > profile.
>
>
> I suspect 83% of his restaurant traffic will be local townsfolk.
>

I suspect you're either right, or slightly underestimating the
number. There are numerous airport restaurants that I visit in AZ and
the locals usually outnumber the pilots 10 to 1. The big draw for the
locals is the getting to watch the airplanes as they eat.

Some airport restaurants are so popular with the locals that it's
difficult for a visiting pilot to get a table.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Flyingmonk]

Did you get a chance to eat at 94th Aerosquadron while you were out
here in DC Metro? Sort of a Alexis Inn version of restaurants.

The Monk

[Flyingmonk]

Thank you Montblack. Have you ever eatten at 94th Aerosquadron?
There's one in College Park Airport near DC. Great aviation
theme(WWII) restaurant.

The Monk
""There is pleasure when a sore is scratched,
But to be without sores is more pleasurable still.
Just so, there are pleasures in worldly desires,
But to be without desires is more pleasurable still."

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> Strangely, no. The only place in town that serves steaks is for sale
> right now.
>
> Remember, Iowa City is the "anti-Iowa". Everyone here (thanks to the U of
> Iowa) is young, wealthy, and active. Places that serve healthy food
> (read: small portions) are plentiful. Places that serve a good slider and
> eggs are non-existent.
>
> I personally think that, given that market hole, a restaurant that filled
> that niche would be a runaway hit. Especially with the Wal-Mart crowd.
\
There you go! You have just identified one of your major target groups.
Now make sure this fits in with the "travelers and luxury in the hotel"
crowd, and you have it covered.

Family style, perhaps? Big bowls of the mashed potatoes and green beans
passed around? It is popular around here. I know of some in our group of
friends that take a couple of van loads, 50 or 60 miles, up the mountain to
go to a place like that. It has the huge portions and delicious food. It
draws for miles around, and that is part of what you should aim for. It
just might draw for even more "airplane miles," and end up with an overnight
stay in some fleabag hotel, somewhere! <grinning, ducking and running>
--
Jim in NC

[john smith]

> Thank you Montblack. Have you ever eatten at 94th Aerosquadron?
> There's one in College Park Airport near DC. Great aviation

I know the standard response is. google it, but does anyone know if
Talichet (sic) still owns the chain?

[john smith]

> Our restaurant is just a convenience to our customers as well. Like I said
> it is not a big money maker but it is just another nice perk for our
> customers.
> There is a really nice restaurant at MIE (Vince's if I recall correctly)
> that gets more local non-aviation folks as customers than anything else. It
> is an upscale dinner restaurant that really seems to work well with lots of
> old aviation memorabilia.

I have been going to Vince's off and on for over twenty years. It is
80nm west of KOSU/Don Scott Field, Columbus OH. It has changes hands
more than five times that I know of in this time.
They do a lot of business with the Ball State University students.

[Morgans]

"Blanche" > wrote

> Start with breakfast & lunch OR only lunch & dinner. Once business gets
> established, then go for more.

I respectfully disagree. If the business model is sound, do a big grand
opening, lots of advertising, and start it up with all the draws to all of
the different groups and needs, all at once.

In my way of thinking, if they don't get what they need or want the first
time around, they may not be back for the second time.

Jay, don't be bashful about asking for advise from all of the different
skills that are represented in this group, as planning and construction
begins. We have contractors, electricians, lawyers, engineers, writers,
illustrators, ect, ect, all over the place. Use us for, if nothing else,
reality checks along the way. I can only speak for myself, in saying I
would be thrilled to be even a small part of it.
--
Jim in NC

[Montblack]

("Flyingmonk" wrote)
> Thank you Montblack. Have you ever eatten at 94th Aerosquadron? There's
> one in College Park Airport near DC. Great aviation theme(WWII)
> restaurant.


Nope to DC.

Downtown St Paul, MN (Holman Field - KSTP) had a restaurant on the field
that I used to eat at, in the early 80's. Neat old building.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?L1222167C
"This castle-like building served as the headquarters of Northwest Airlines
during the 1930's and 40's."

http://www.weisman.umn.edu/exhibits/Cap/holmanbg.gif
National Register of Historic Places - added to the list in 1991.


Montblack

[Flyingmonk]

Is the food any good, could n't tell from the picture because the
parking lot was empty.

The food at 94th Aero Squadron is very good, not the best, but great
for the money. I used to work near there and that's where I'd have
lunch with my customers and vendors.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/CGS94th/ ----> The one in College Park.
http://www.94thaerosquadron.signonsandiego.com/ ----> The one in San
Diego.
http://www.visitvalleyofthestars.org/dining_nightlife/94th_aero_squadron.htm
----> The one in Va Nuys.

Must be a franchise. They have realistic looking full size WWII era
planes parked at the entrance, I thumped on them and found that they
are fiberglass nonflying displays.

Great place to eat, great lunch buffet with live chef at the buffet to
cook your pasta.

The Monk

[john smith]

In article . com>,
"Flyingmonk" > wrote:

> Is the food any good, could n't tell from the picture because the
> parking lot was empty.
>
> The food at 94th Aero Squadron is very good, not the best, but great
> for the money. I used to work near there and that's where I'd have
> lunch with my customers and vendors.
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/md2/CGS94th/ ----> The one in College Park.
> http://www.94thaerosquadron.signonsandiego.com/ ----> The one in San
> Diego.
> http://www.visitvalleyofthestars.org/dining_nightlife/94th_aero_squadron.htm
> ----> The one in Va Nuys.
>
> Must be a franchise. They have realistic looking full size WWII era
> planes parked at the entrance, I thumped on them and found that they
> are fiberglass nonflying displays.

25 years ago they were all the real thing.
Towards the end of the 80', early 90's, Talichet started sending
mechanics around getting them flyable and flying them out.
I have no idea where they went.
I saw a B-25 that had sat in place for the better part of 10 years get
three days of maintenance go flying off into the western sky after only
a short test hop and check for leaks.

[Dave]

OK... my hat goes in...

Jay, business _is_ my business...my job is helping people start,
maintain, operate, expand etc. businesses..

so...(with the caveat that this may be worth only what you are paying
for it :) )

.............................................

Sell an experience with the (good) food... this is your "edge"

BE THERE! They say customers are always right! Right?

I have news!, - they lie , cheat and steal! And employees... the
same.. (But you run a motel, you have already figured that out...)

Know what EVERYTHING COSTS before you serve it..

I have a very successful friend in the business, (37 years)- he
monitors the costs of his portions to two decimal places, and never
violates his margins.

Waste and "little dishonesties" can kill you.... And you have to
(according to him) know all the tricks.. the stories he can tell
about how some people would steal just leave me shaking my head...
unfreakin believeable! And how he managed to catch them.. !

Stay current, with your theme and your market..

Servers? Gender should be obvious, and find the ones who are outgoing
and smile with their eyes... (here is that experience thingy again)

We have a place here that after you get beat up all morning, you
can drag yourself in for lunch, and head backto work walking on
clouds,- because of the people there. Dono where he gets them, but he
does. They make "regulars" out of everybody....and the servers
average about double in tips than the servers in some other
restaurants...

Find a mentor that can guide you along, - " learning " this particular
business can be expensive, .........get a head start.

Last tip... the successful restauranteurs here have something in
common, the LOVE what they are doing!

Cheers and the best!

Dave



"On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:56:20 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> There is one at Fayetteville (AR) Drake field that seems to struggle and
>> is not open on Sundays.
>>
>> I always think these things should be open both weekend days.
>
>Isn't that nuts? There are precisely two days for a restaurant to make $$$
>on breakfast, and so many of them choose to be closed on half of them.
>
>Close Monday, if you must -- but never Sunday morning.

[Jose]

> Waste and "little dishonesties" can kill you.... And you have to
> (according to him) know all the tricks.. the stories he can tell
> about how some people would steal just leave me shaking my head...
> unfreakin believeable! And how he managed to catch them.. !

I'd like to hear those stories!

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Matt Whiting]

Dave wrote:

> I have a very successful friend in the business, (37 years)- he
> monitors the costs of his portions to two decimal places, and never
> violates his margins.

Does he weight each portion to a hundredth of a pound as well? If he
doesn't, then computing costs to the penny is simply delusional.

Matt

[Dave Stadt]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Dave wrote:
>
>> I have a very successful friend in the business, (37 years)- he
>> monitors the costs of his portions to two decimal places, and never
>> violates his margins.
>
> Does he weight each portion to a hundredth of a pound as well? If he
> doesn't, then computing costs to the penny is simply delusional.
>
> Matt

I have always heard that food costs are the least important cost in the
restaurant business which is why many serve up huge portions. Labor,
facility, overhead and other costs are the important ones. Could be why
buffets are so popular.

[Jay Honeck]

>> Waste and "little dishonesties" can kill you.... And you have to
>> (according to him) know all the tricks.. the stories he can tell
>> about how some people would steal just leave me shaking my head...
>> unfreakin believeable! And how he managed to catch them.. !
>
> I'd like to hear those stories!

We've got a list of some pretty amazing "guest stories", after just 3 years
in the lodging biz.

People being people, you get all kinds. I've seen some pretty remarkable
displays of stupidity, arrogance, ignorance, and fraud. (None of this from
pilots, mind you.) I can't imagine what a guy must have seen after 37 years
in the restaurant business!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dave]

How about...

A cashier giving her friends free meals..

She would hit the "no sale button" or hold the cash drawer almost
closed with her body from the previous sale, accept a large bill and
pass back the same amount in change in smaller bills. (!)

"Doggie bags" containing full meals.....

Sigh..

Dave


On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 04:23:05 GMT, Jose >
wrote:

>> Waste and "little dishonesties" can kill you.... And you have to
>> (according to him) know all the tricks.. the stories he can tell
>> about how some people would steal just leave me shaking my head...
>> unfreakin believeable! And how he managed to catch them.. !
>
>I'd like to hear those stories!
>
>Jose

[Dave]

Course not!

Portions of ingredients DO go on the pizzas to the gram.....

......my friend DOES portion stuff to the oz however..

The two decimal places are in the mathmatical resultant of the gross
profit of the meal, including the paper napkins (NEVER leave them out
on the counter in a container, they take handfulls...) and straws
(never leave the box on the counter for the same reason)

Had a fast food joint here that did, ( not a client) ... He would
"allow" his staff to stuff the napkin containers so full that
customer could not get one or two, the thing was stuffed so tight that
they had to "pry out" a bunch at a time. Some would take what they got
(wipies for drooling rug rats) or the stack they left on the counter
would be grabbed by the next customer cause it was easier than diging
in the dispenser.

They FINALLY but everything behind the counter, and the counter staff
NOW places on the tray one straw /drink, TWO napkins per meal,
requested extras cheerfully added...

Napkin & straw costs dropped by 40%

Then there is the credit card scams, tip scams, bulk supplies, potato
peeling, waste control... it goes on & on...

Dave


On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:58:38 GMT, Matt Whiting >
wrote:

>Dave wrote:
>
>> I have a very successful friend in the business, (37 years)- he
>> monitors the costs of his portions to two decimal places, and never
>> violates his margins.
>
>Does he weight each portion to a hundredth of a pound as well? If he
>doesn't, then computing costs to the penny is simply delusional.
>
>Matt

[Javier Henderson]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> Waste and "little dishonesties" can kill you.... And you have to
>>> (according to him) know all the tricks.. the stories he can tell
>>> about how some people would steal just leave me shaking my head...
>>> unfreakin believeable! And how he managed to catch them.. !
>> I'd like to hear those stories!
>
> We've got a list of some pretty amazing "guest stories", after just 3 years
> in the lodging biz.
>
> People being people, you get all kinds. I've seen some pretty remarkable
> displays of stupidity, arrogance, ignorance, and fraud. (None of this from
> pilots, mind you.) I can't imagine what a guy must have seen after 37 years
> in the restaurant business!

Alright, enough with the teasing already, you're great at writing, just
summarize the top 100 idiotic things your guests have done and post them
here.

You will make the world a better place.

-jav

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Javier Henderson > wrote:

> Alright, enough with the teasing already, you're great at writing, just
> summarize the top 100 idiotic things your guests have done and post them
> here.

But please don't be too graphic when discribing things you've "rescued"
from the toilets.

--
Bob Noel
goodness - the NFL officials are making
the NHL officials look like geniuses

[Jay Honeck]

> Alright, enough with the teasing already, you're great at writing, just
> summarize the top 100 idiotic things your guests have done and post them
> here.
>
> You will make the world a better place.

Well, Jav, I don't know about that. Sometimes we're better off, living in a
dream-world where we believe that manners are the norm, people treat one
another respect, and guests act like gentlemen and ladies. Personally, I
would never have dreamed what some people do in hotels. Here are just a few
general examples of crazy things we've seen in our first three years.

1. Pets
We've had guests allow their animals to defecate and urinate wherever and
whenever they wanted in our "pet-friendly" suites. This has happened with
cats, dogs, birds, and ferrets. (Yes, ferrets.)

Mary and I are "dog-people" and love pets. We went down the "pet-friendly"
route partially because of recommendations from pilots on this newsgroup,
who claimed to "demand" that their pets be treated like guests in fine
hotels. Because of the bitter lessons we've learned with allowing pets in
our hotel, we have (a) spent thousands in new flooring, cleaning and
repairs, and (b) are phasing out our pet-friendly policy.

It's just sad what some pet owners will do. We charge a whopping $10 per
night for a pet to stay in the hotel -- a bargain, considering the thousands
of dollars in damage a single cat can do -- but have witnessed otherwise
upstanding guests go to extreme lengths to avoid paying this nominal fee.

For example, we don't allow pets in the aviation theme suites -- and have
this policy posted prominently on the doors and in the lobby -- yet we
occasionally catch idiots sneaking a dog or cat into a theme suite. The
best one happened just last month when I was shoveling the balconies, and
found yellow snow and dog crap all over the 2nd floor balcony. All I had to
do was follow the dog's footprints back to their balcony door, and bust
them. (I summarily threw the guests out, without a refund, by the way.
GOD, I was ****ed.)

2. Smokers
Pets are second only to smokers when it comes to damage and destruction in
our hotel. We've had holes burned in thousand-dollar leather couches, $250
dollar end-tables, and wall-to-wall carpeting. They make the place smell
like ****, and -- strangely enough -- demand that their suites don't smell
like cigarettes when *they* check in. This phenomenon would be really quite
amusing, if I didn't have to deal with it.

They also flip their butts EVERYWHERE on the grounds, creating a disgusting
mess everywhere they go. Again, as with pets, we are phasing out "smoking
permitted" suites -- which will, of course, simply drive the smokers to
smoke in our non-smoking suites. (This carries with it a $100 fine, which
we have only had to charge once in three years. You should have seen Mary
go AFTER those people! :-)

And to think I used to smoke, back when we first met... (Quit in '86...never
looked back.)

3. Rose Petals
Remember the movie "American Beauty"? Remember the scene with the blonde
laying in a bed of rose petals? Well, this scene apparently struck a chord
with a certain age-group, and we regularly find suites that are practically
wall-to-wall rose petals.

Ever try vacuuming up ten billion rose petals?

4. Candles. Despite the fact that hundreds of people die in fires started
by candles each year, there is a certain sub-set of humanity who believe
that they are romantic. There is an even smaller subset who think it's
cool to ring their hot tub with candles, and allow the hot wax to run down
onto (and into) the hot tub.

Ever tried to remove candle wax from a $4000 Jacuzzi?

5. Towel-Trashers
We have surprisingly few towels stolen. We have an AMAZING number of towels
trashed by people who apparently think that heavy cotton towels are perfect
for checking their oil. Or polishing their shoes. Or removing eye make-up.
Or (this was the best one) wrapping their newly died hair (red, no less!)
in.

We even started putting dark green hand towels in the bathrooms,
specifically labeled as "make-up towels", in hopes of minimizing the loss --
to no avail. We check towels after each guest checks out, and make a
regular habit of charging the crooks for each destroyed towel. (I will even
mail them to the guest, if they want, so at least they get something out of
it. The towels are still usually just fine, for home use.)

6. Toilet Fillers.
People apparently think that hotel toilets are somehow different than their
home toilets. In fact, they seem to think that they are the plumbing
equivalent of "Black Holes", given what they routinely flush down them.

What I especially like is the way some of these folks take on a horrified,
aghast attitude, as if the fact that their toilet backed up after THEY tried
to flush a friggin' pillow down it was somehow a bad reflection on US.

7. Price Scammers
This has only happened a couple of times, but the first time cost us over
$800. A couple stayed with us for almost a week, ordering room service and
running up a goodly bill. Because they had pre-authorized their stay on
their Visa card by phone, we never physically swiped the card through our
machine. (This was the approved procedure for our credit card handling
company at the time.) We DID run separate charge slips for each purchase (I
believe there were 8 separate charges), and had the guests sign each
receipt.

At the end of their stay they simply went home, claimed their credit card
had been stolen, and that they had never stayed at our hotel. Visa
INSTANTLY charged us back the $800, and -- because we never physically ran
the card through our machine -- refused to honor any of their charges.
(Additionally, Visa actually charged us $15 "transaction fee" for EACH
chargeback -- all eight of them.)

Needless to say, we changed our credit card handling procedures, and threw
our credit card handling company out. (We've since gone through three more
of these parasites. They ALL suck.)

8. Upgrade Scammers
These are primarily travel agents. They will make an on-line booking for
their client in one of our cheapest suites -- which are on the third floor,
and we don't have elevators. This fact is clearly labeled on everything any
travel agent has access to.

Their client will then show up, and turn out to be elderly or handicapped in
some way, meaning that they clearly can't climb steps. They will then
expect us to put them in a ground floor suite for the same price, even
though the ground floor suites are 50% larger and have hot tubs.

Another variation on this scam is when a guest goes to our website, books
our cheapest smoking-permitted suite, and then writes in that they want
NON-smoking in the comments section. Because of occupancy this is often not
possible without upgrading to a larger, more pricey suite, but (of course)
they will try to get upgraded without paying anything extra.

9. Fence Climbers.
This is a summer time problem, when we close the pool at sundown, and some
young folks decide that THEY want to swim all night. I've replaced several
fence boards that broke when one of these alcohol-fueled dolts tried to
scale the wall. And I'll bet there have been more than a few slivers found
in various parts of their anatomy!

10. Balcony Climbers
This is by far the dumbest guest trick of them all. We have two 3-story
buildings. Each floor has a full-length balcony. Beneath these balconies
are either (a) other balconies, or (b) concrete. It would be quite a fall.

On two occasions (both U of Iowa home football game weekends, not
surprisingly) we have received calls from guests who freaked out when they
saw someone climbing up onto their balcony from the balcony below, like
Spiderman! One slip and these alcohol-fueled morons would be an ink splot
on the ground, below -- but, hey, they're young and think they'll live
forever!

This list could go on, but it's getting late.

Let you think we regret opening the inn, let me say that nothing could be
farther from the truth. Suffice it to say that (a) the vast majority of
our guests are wonderful, and (b) we have NEVER had any problem with ANY
pilot guest. And the problems we *have* had are relatively rare, minor,
and often amusing.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Sylvain]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> 8. Upgrade Scammers
> These are primarily travel agents. They will make an on-line booking for
> their client in one of our cheapest suites -- which are on the third floor,
> and we don't have elevators. This fact is clearly labeled on everything any
> travel agent has access to.
>
> Their client will then show up, and turn out to be elderly or handicapped in
> some way, meaning that they clearly can't climb steps. They will then
> expect us to put them in a ground floor suite for the same price, even
> though the ground floor suites are 50% larger and have hot tubs.

As much as I sympathize with you on most topics, what you describe is
in effect a violation of title III of the ADA (whereby you are
charging your handicapped guests more money for your services -- does
not really matter whether or not it is advertised); in the
long run, an occasional free upgrade will cost you a lot less than
a lawsuit (even though the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor, i.e.,
very few of such suits ever go to court and even fewer award anything
to the plaintiff, you might meet someone with a better lawyer or
just lucky)...

--Sylvain

[Don Byrer]

>1. Pets
>Because of the bitter lessons we've learned with allowing pets in
>our hotel, we have (a) spent thousands in new flooring, cleaning and
>repairs, and (b) are phasing out our pet-friendly policy.

That's a shame but I don't blame ya. Not that I plan to fly the cats
anytime soon...yeesh! That would be a Cat II nightmare. I go to OKC
frequently for training; only one of the 3 dozen'ish lodging places we
use takes pets anymore.

>We charge a whopping $10 per night for a pet to stay in the hotel
Maybe $10 with a $200 deposit :)

>2. Smokers
you said it all...

>3. Rose Petals
H'mmm...maybe question on checkin: have you seen or read Lady
Chatterly's lover or seen American Beauty? If yes...?

Even better...big sign telling 'em there's a ban on rose petals for
agricultural reasons...

OR...maybe even better...Rose petals (etc) only permitted if purchsed
thru the hotel....price including cost of cleanup and next annual on
Jay's plane...

>4. Candles.
Cant say I've never had a candle in a hotel room, but it was in a
large apartment and it was ONE candle, closely watched. And it was
one of those Glade candles cuz the place was stinky, not to be
romantic.

>5. Towel-Trashers
Many of the places I've stayed in OKC are 'long term corporate
housing' and dont have 'new' towels. Most of the time they dont match
either. They work fine tho!

>6. Toilet Fillers.
Well...they got caught with the cat/ankle biter dog/ferret/extra kid
in the room, and tried to flush it. Can ya blame 'em? :)

>7. Price Scammers
Lesson learned...you paid a little "stupid tax", but it won't happen
again, right?

>8. Upgrade Scammers
Ya know..I would NEVER have thought of that. That's dirty pool.
Politely asking if you have a good deal on a upgrade would probably
work better, I'm sure.

>9. Fence Climbers.
When I was in England for 3 yrs, I noticed a lot of older buildings
had stone fences with broken glass embedded in the mortar on top...

>10. Balcony Climbers
WTF? Been drunk and stupid in my younger days but never woulda tried
THAT...

Sara and I do plan to come visit ya in late 06 or 07. We'll try to
behave...

--Don

Don Byrer
Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
Amateur Radio KJ5KB
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."

[Sylvain]

Martin Hotze wrote:
> He never said...

Does not matter, that's not the point. In his situation
(as described in Jay's message), I'd have a chat with my
attorney, just to make sure. But hey, not my problem.

--Sylvain

[Grumman-581]

"Don Byrer" wrote in message
...
> Maybe $10 with a $200 deposit :)

I always wondered why hotels don't just have a kennel area where guests can
store their pets while they are staying at the hotel... It wouldn't need to
be anything fancy or even provide walking service or food, just a safe place
where a guest could lock up their pet and come down periodically to walk
their pet or feed him... It could open directly to to outdoors and
everything could be concrete or tile so that if the dog had an 'accident'
before he made it outside, it could just be hosed down...

[Matt Whiting]

Sylvain wrote:

> As much as I sympathize with you on most topics, what you describe is
> in effect a violation of title III of the ADA (whereby you are
> charging your handicapped guests more money for your services -- does
> not really matter whether or not it is advertised); in the
> long run, an occasional free upgrade will cost you a lot less than
> a lawsuit (even though the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor, i.e.,
> very few of such suits ever go to court and even fewer award anything
> to the plaintiff, you might meet someone with a better lawyer or
> just lucky)...

That isn't true at all. He said he charges everyone the same fee for a
ground floor suite. I haven't read the ADA rules lately, so I don't
know if he is compelled to install an elevator to provide access to the
cheap suites, but I think there were grandfather clauses for small
businesses.


Matt

[sfb]

Who is liable when Fluffy the gazillion dollar pure breed mutt gets out
via a gate left open by another guest?

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
>
> I always wondered why hotels don't just have a kennel area where
> guests can
> store their pets while they are staying at the hotel...

[Jay Honeck]

> Sara and I do plan to come visit ya in late 06 or 07. We'll try to
> behave...

Thanks! We'll look forward to your visit.

And I don't want anyone to think that the type of behavior I describe is
common -- far from it. But when you see thousands of guests each year, you
run into ALL kinds.

Most of it is hilarious (like the VERY drunk guest who slept on our lobby
park bench because he couldn't find his keys, and didn't want to wake
anyone) much of it is poignant (like the couple who recently stayed with us
while their little girl was receiving leukemia treatments at the University
Hospitals. They finally took her home to die, after many months of trying
everything under the sun, and we all cried), and all of it is learning
experience.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Who is liable when Fluffy the gazillion dollar pure breed mutt gets out
> via a gate left open by another guest?

That is a very scary question, and one we have debated endlessly. But what
scares us more is a dog-bite situation.

Example: We still allow pets in our corporate (long-term) suites. These are
occupied by traveling nurses, visiting professors -- anyone who wants a
suite with a full kitchen, doesn't care about airplanes (they're plain-Jane
suites), and has lots of money but doesn't want to rent an apartment for a
full year.

Recently we had a lady guest with a mastiff -- the biggest gol-dang dog I've
EVER seen. His shoulders were at MY shoulders, and I was looking him in the
eye. Thankfully, he was the most gentle dog I've found, and very well
trained -- but his mandibles could clearly rip out a side of beef -- or a
guest, if the whim were to hit him. It's a real concern.

What's REALLY a problem, however, is cats. And not that they damage a
suite -- rather, after they stay in a suite, they leave their dander all
over the place, and no amount of cleaning gets rid of it.

Then, our next guest checks in, maybe a week later, sans cat, and (you
guessed it) is ALLERGIC to cats. These poor, unsuspecting folks come down
to the lobby, all puffy and swollen, asking for their money back...

No, the pet thing was a really dumb idea, and we're working to rectify it.
If we had 100 suites (instead of 28), perhaps allowing pets would make
sense, but we don't.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Grumman-581" > said:
>"Don Byrer" wrote in message
...
>> Maybe $10 with a $200 deposit :)
>
>I always wondered why hotels don't just have a kennel area where guests can
>store their pets while they are staying at the hotel... It wouldn't need to

Ever hung around a dog kennel after the owner leaves? Their dog starts
barking, all the other dogs start barking in sympathy, and soon the
neighbours are phoning to complain. Not something you'd want next to your
hotel. My mother runs a dog and cat boarding service, and she's lucky
that her next door neighbours are over a mile away. (They're also a
motorcycle gang, but this is their house not their clubhouse, so it's
clean and relatively quiet.)


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"An NT server can be run by an idiot, and usually is." -- Tom Holub, a.h.b-o-i

[Jay Honeck]

> That isn't true at all. He said he charges everyone the same fee for a
> ground floor suite. I haven't read the ADA rules lately, so I don't know
> if he is compelled to install an elevator to provide access to the cheap
> suites, but I think there were grandfather clauses for small businesses.

In 2002, they wanted $90K to add an elevator. And we'd need two, or we'd
have to build a skywalk between the buildings.

Because the place was built in '79-'80, we are grand-fathered out of many
laws. For example, we aren't required to have sprinkler systems
throughout, as new hotels are. We are allowed to have a 3-story sign out
front, however -- something that no new business could erect today.

Most of the time it's no problem putting Grandma in a first floor unit at
the same price -- but many weekends we're sold out, and there just isn't any
other place to put 'em.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article <R%Nyf.702108$x96.21760@attbi_s72>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> > That isn't true at all. He said he charges everyone the same fee for a
> > ground floor suite. I haven't read the ADA rules lately, so I don't know
> > if he is compelled to install an elevator to provide access to the cheap
> > suites, but I think there were grandfather clauses for small businesses.
>
> In 2002, they wanted $90K to add an elevator. And we'd need two, or we'd
> have to build a skywalk between the buildings.

I seem to recall all the handicap-accessible rooms I've seen in my limited
business have been on the first floor. Don't forget that in the event of
a fire you should not use the elevator.

--
Bob Noel
goodness - the NFL officials are making
the NHL officials look like geniuses

[Jose]

> I always wondered why hotels don't just have a kennel area where guests can
> store their pets while they are staying at the hotel...

Pets are not inanimate objects. They don't get "stored".

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[George Patterson]

Grumman-581 wrote:

> I always wondered why hotels don't just have a kennel area where guests can
> store their pets while they are staying at the hotel...

I've seen one motel that had exactly that. It was just off the Hickory, NC exit
of I-40, but I'm afraid I don't remember the name.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Blanche]

>9. Fence Climbers.

50K volt wire around the top of the fence?

[[email protected]]

Why do you close the pool at sunset? In the middle of August a quick
swim at 10pm is a joy.

[Blanche]

Once upon a time...the Hacienda in Las Vegas (long ago torn down and
is the location of the Mandalay Bay IIRC) had a collection of dog houses
with small runs in the back for visitors with pets. My parents loved
the idea. Then when their dog got rather elderly, they found a great
kennel (with vet) for day care -- dog in the kennel at night, with
my parents during the day.

I forgot what was the area around you (all commercial and airport?)
but if there's any residential, barking dogs wouldn't be a good
neighbor policy. You may want to make an "arrangement" with a local
kennel for small, furry visitors.

[Jay Honeck]

> >9. Fence Climbers.
>
> 50K volt wire around the top of the fence?

Great idea! :-)

I forgot to mention the boys who hopped the pool fence in the winter
and used our $3000 pool cover as a trampoline.

The pool was half filled with old, fetid water (beneath the cover), and
if the lads had ripped a hole through the cover we probably wouldn't
have found them till spring. Luckily someone spotted them before they
killed themselves...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> >9. Fence Climbers.
>>
>> 50K volt wire around the top of the fence?
>
> Great idea! :-)
>
> I forgot to mention the boys who hopped the pool fence in the winter
> and used our $3000 pool cover as a trampoline.
>
> The pool was half filled with old, fetid water (beneath the cover), and
> if the lads had ripped a hole through the cover we probably wouldn't
> have found them till spring. Luckily someone spotted them before they
> killed themselves...

And you would have been sued.

[George Patterson]

Blanche wrote:

> I forgot what was the area around you (all commercial and airport?)
> but if there's any residential, barking dogs wouldn't be a good
> neighbor policy. You may want to make an "arrangement" with a local
> kennel for small, furry visitors.

Jay's hotel shouldn't have to deal with long-term canine or feline guests. As I
recall, the pet care facilities at the hotel in North Carolina (which I
mentioned elsewhere) consisted of a soundproofed room full of cages. This was
beside the checkin area. Fido can do just fine overnight, but it's not the thing
for several days incarceration. In those cases, an arrangement such as you
describe would be just the thing.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Grumman-581]

"sfb" > wrote in message news:ziNyf.14535$sq.13218@trnddc01...
> Who is liable when Fluffy the gazillion dollar pure breed mutt gets out
> via a gate left open by another guest?

Each cage would have it's own lock, so only the pet owner would be
responsible for their own pet...

[Grumman-581]

"Jose" > wrote in message
. ..
> Pets are not inanimate objects. They don't get "stored".

So, you're saying that they're different than kids at daycare?

[Jose]

>>Pets are not inanimate objects. They don't get "stored".
>
> So, you're saying that they're different than kids at daycare?

Yes. Kids at day care are not put in cages, ignored, and taken for a
walk every six hours.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Grumman-581]

Jose wrote:
> Yes. Kids at day care are not put in cages, ignored, and taken for a
> walk every six hours.

Hmmmm... We must have been using different daycares...

Ever notice how much a crib looks like a cage from the side?

[Sylvain]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Because the place was built in '79-'80, we are grand-fathered out of many
> laws.

yep, but not of the ADA (there is no grand father clause in there);

check it out if you don't believe me,

--Sylvain

[Sylvain]

Jose wrote:
> Yes. Kids at day care are not put in cages, ignored, and taken for a
> walk every six hours.

are you sure? how do you know? (I am willing to bet that
they are not taken for a walk every six hours though)

--Sylvain

[Jay Honeck]

> Why do you close the pool at sunset? In the middle of August a quick
> swim at 10pm is a joy.

That's not a hard and fast rule -- but we bill ourselves as a "quiet
romantic getaway" -- so we don't want 15 guys whooping and hollering in
the pool at midnight, when our guests are trying to sleep.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

I'd hate to come home to find the neighborhood kids jumping on my
expensive pool cover. Not fun! It's amazing what they get for pool
covers (www.pool-covers1.com) and they don't bounce nearly as good as a
trampoline (http://trampoline.ws/)

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>Sara and I do plan to come visit ya in late 06 or 07. We'll try to
>>behave...
>
>
> Thanks! We'll look forward to your visit.
>
> And I don't want anyone to think that the type of behavior I describe is
> common -- far from it. But when you see thousands of guests each year, you
> run into ALL kinds.

Thousands of guests each year! And I thought you said you weren't
making any money in the hotel business!! :-)

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Sylvain wrote:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> Because the place was built in '79-'80, we are grand-fathered out of
>> many laws.
>
>
> yep, but not of the ADA (there is no grand father clause in there);
>
> check it out if you don't believe me,

As I said earlier, I haven't had to read it in about 15 years, but
shortly after it was enacted someone told us we had to make our 100 year
old church building handicap accessible. This was simply not
economically possible. A little research quickly showed that we didn't,
in fact, have to do that. I don't remember now what the out was, but
there was an out and we confirmed it with several sources.

Maybe the law has been amended since then, but I doubt it. Almost every
restaurant within 20 miles of where I live isn't ADA compliant.

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Sylvain wrote:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> Because the place was built in '79-'80, we are grand-fathered out of
>> many laws.
>
>
> yep, but not of the ADA (there is no grand father clause in there);
>
> check it out if you don't believe me,

You are simply wrong. I just did a 60 second search and found this at
the DOJ web site: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/q%26aeng02.htm
What part of "readily achievable" don't you understand? :-)


Q. Are there any limitations on the ADA's barrier removal requirements
for existing facilities?

A. Yes. Barrier removal need be accomplished only when it is "readily
achievable" to do so.


Q. What does the term "readily achievable" mean?

A. It means "easily accomplishable and able to be carried out without
much difficulty or expense."


Q. What are examples of the types of modifications that would be readily
achievable in most cases?

A. Examples include the simple ramping of a few steps, the installation
of grab bars where only routine reinforcement of the wall is required,
the lowering of telephones, and similar modest adjustments.


Q. Will businesses need to rearrange furniture and display racks?

A. Possibly. For example, restaurants may need to rearrange tables and
department stores may need to adjust their layout of racks and shelves
in order to permit access to wheelchair users.


Q. Will businesses need to install elevators?

A. Businesses are not required to retrofit their facilities to install
elevators unless such installation is readily achievable, which is
unlikely in most cases.


Q. When barrier removal is not readily achievable, what kinds of
alternative steps are required by the ADA?

A. Alternatives may include such measures as in-store assistance for
removing articles from inaccessible shelves, home delivery of groceries,
or coming to the door to receive or return dry cleaning.


Q. Must alternative steps be taken without regard to cost?

A. No, only readily achievable alternative steps must be undertaken.

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>Why do you close the pool at sunset? In the middle of August a quick
>>swim at 10pm is a joy.
>
>
> That's not a hard and fast rule -- but we bill ourselves as a "quiet
> romantic getaway" -- so we don't want 15 guys whooping and hollering in
> the pool at midnight, when our guests are trying to sleep.

What is romantic about sleeping at 10PM? :-)


Matt

[Sylvain]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> the DOJ web site: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/q%26aeng02.htm
> What part of "readily achievable" don't you understand? :-)

and what part of 'there is no grand father clause' do you not
understand? and which part of 'prohibit exclusion, segregation, and
unequal treatment' do you not understand?

If Jay is willing to bet his business on a 30 seconds google
search, it is his call. But hey, you are the specialist
obviously, and willing to provide Jay with legal advice, your
call to. All I am saying is that the matter might be worth
15mn of a lawyers time, rather than relying on hearsay; I am
even willing to bet that amount with Jay: if I am wrong, I'll
pay the 15mn laywers time, if I am right, I got a night free
at the inn, what do you say?

--Sylvain

[Montblack]

("Matt Whiting" wrote)
> What is romantic about sleeping at 10PM? :-)


The dreams...


Montblack

[Matt Whiting]

Sylvain wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> the DOJ web site: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/q%26aeng02.htm
>> What part of "readily achievable" don't you understand? :-)
>
>
> and what part of 'there is no grand father clause' do you not
> understand? and which part of 'prohibit exclusion, segregation, and
> unequal treatment' do you not understand?

I understand it quite well as I showed with the post that backed up my
earlier comment. Buildings that existed prior to ADA and which can't be
"readily" brought into ADA compliance are grandfathered and can be
left as is. Do you understand what "grandfather" means in this context?


> If Jay is willing to bet his business on a 30 seconds google
> search, it is his call. But hey, you are the specialist
> obviously, and willing to provide Jay with legal advice, your
> call to. All I am saying is that the matter might be worth
> 15mn of a lawyers time, rather than relying on hearsay; I am
> even willing to bet that amount with Jay: if I am wrong, I'll
> pay the 15mn laywers time, if I am right, I got a night free
> at the inn, what do you say?

He wouldn't be betting it on a 30 second Google search, he'd be betting
it on the US Department of Justice. I'd say this is a pretty reliable
and authoritative source where the ADA is concerned. And I didn't
provide Jay or anyone else with legal advice. I provided a link to a
page at the DOJ site which addressed the topic at hand.

You really need to polish up on your reading comprehension.

I wouldn't bet a plug nickel on anything a lawyer would say as they
aren't the one's who enforce the ADA.


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Sylvain wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> the DOJ web site: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/q%26aeng02.htm
>> What part of "readily achievable" don't you understand? :-)
>
>
> and what part of 'there is no grand father clause' do you not
> understand? and which part of 'prohibit exclusion, segregation, and
> unequal treatment' do you not understand?
>
> If Jay is willing to bet his business on a 30 seconds google
> search, it is his call. But hey, you are the specialist
> obviously, and willing to provide Jay with legal advice, your
> call to. All I am saying is that the matter might be worth
> 15mn of a lawyers time, rather than relying on hearsay; I am
> even willing to bet that amount with Jay: if I am wrong, I'll
> pay the 15mn laywers time, if I am right, I got a night free
> at the inn, what do you say?

Why don't you post a credible link that supports your assertion that Jay
is violating the ADA?


Matt

[Jay Honeck]

>> Yes. Kids at day care are not put in cages, ignored, and taken for a
>> walk every six hours.
>
> Hmmmm... We must have been using different daycares...
>
> Ever notice how much a crib looks like a cage from the side?

Well put.

Which, BTW, is precisely the reason we scrimped and ate beans so that Mary
could stay home with the kids when they were little. Some of the day cares
we checked out looked a little too much like prisons for kids...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

>> The pool was half filled with old, fetid water (beneath the cover), and
>> if the lads had ripped a hole through the cover we probably wouldn't
>> have found them till spring. Luckily someone spotted them before they
>> killed themselves...
>
> And you would have been sued.

And, worst of all -- we would have lost.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Thousands of guests each year! And I thought you said you weren't making
> any money in the hotel business!! :-)

Well, we're within spitting distance of breaking even now. As long as you
don't factor in opportunity costs (which would be breath-taking), we've only
lost a few bucks in the last three years, and have significantly upgraded
the facility.

Of course, our energy bills just shot through the roof, and we just ordered
a gigantic roll of carpet (for the next three suites), and we've got some
major plumbing work coming up, and...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Flyingmonk]

>Of course, our energy bills just shot through the roof, and we just ordered
>a gigantic roll of carpet (for the next three suites), and we've got some
>major plumbing work coming up, and...

....and Atlas needed work too (cracked exhaust pipe)?

:^)

The Monk

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Of course, our energy bills just shot through the roof, and we just ordered
> a gigantic roll of carpet (for the next three suites), and we've got some
> major plumbing work coming up, and...

Your talk of problems with toilets backing up got me thinking. Maybe you could
make the drain lines oversize the next time you do any work. Of course, it isn't
going to help to make the drain lines 8" in new suites if they drain into older
6" lines further downstream, but, if they don't, it'll reduce clogs.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Jose]

> Of course, it isn't going to help to make the drain lines 8" in new suites if they drain into older 6" lines further downstream, but, if they don't, it'll reduce clogs.

It will make the clog go further down... where it's harder to snake...
if it's even possible.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Matt Whiting]

George Patterson wrote:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> Of course, our energy bills just shot through the roof, and we just
>> ordered a gigantic roll of carpet (for the next three suites), and
>> we've got some major plumbing work coming up, and...
>
>
> Your talk of problems with toilets backing up got me thinking. Maybe you
> could make the drain lines oversize the next time you do any work. Of
> course, it isn't going to help to make the drain lines 8" in new suites
> if they drain into older 6" lines further downstream, but, if they
> don't, it'll reduce clogs.

Actually, this isn't necessarily the case. Larger pipes may help avoid
clogs from very large objects such as diapers, but it may increase the
odds of a clog from the more routine "crap" that waste pipes carry. It
takes a certain depth and velocity of water to move the solid waste
through a nearly horizontal run of pipe. With larger pipes, the depth
and velocity of the water from a typical flush won't move the solid
waste. After a while, a clog will form.

This was first noticed when the move was made to the 1.6 gal water
saving toilets. Older homes with 4" main waste pipes began to suffer
more clogs. Many new homes are now made using 3" waste pipes to
increase the water velocity from the water conserving toilets.

Matt

[Peter Clark]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:16:23 GMT, Matt Whiting >
wrote:

>Actually, this isn't necessarily the case. Larger pipes may help avoid
>clogs from very large objects such as diapers, but it may increase the
>odds of a clog from the more routine "crap" that waste pipes carry. It
>takes a certain depth and velocity of water to move the solid waste
>through a nearly horizontal run of pipe. With larger pipes, the depth
>and velocity of the water from a typical flush won't move the solid
>waste. After a while, a clog will form.
>
>This was first noticed when the move was made to the 1.6 gal water
>saving toilets. Older homes with 4" main waste pipes began to suffer
>more clogs. Many new homes are now made using 3" waste pipes to
>increase the water velocity from the water conserving toilets.

Ya know, you sure know a lot about crap.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist ;)

It always amazes me the bits of trivia one picks up reading these
groups.

[Matt Whiting]

Peter Clark wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:16:23 GMT, Matt Whiting >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Actually, this isn't necessarily the case. Larger pipes may help avoid
>>clogs from very large objects such as diapers, but it may increase the
>>odds of a clog from the more routine "crap" that waste pipes carry. It
>>takes a certain depth and velocity of water to move the solid waste
>>through a nearly horizontal run of pipe. With larger pipes, the depth
>>and velocity of the water from a typical flush won't move the solid
>>waste. After a while, a clog will form.
>>
>>This was first noticed when the move was made to the 1.6 gal water
>>saving toilets. Older homes with 4" main waste pipes began to suffer
>>more clogs. Many new homes are now made using 3" waste pipes to
>>increase the water velocity from the water conserving toilets.
>
>
> Ya know, you sure know a lot about crap.
>
> Sorry, I just couldn't resist ;)
>
> It always amazes me the bits of trivia one picks up reading these
> groups.

I picked this up reading a construction ng... :-)

Crap is their business. :-)

Matt

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Matt Whiting wrote:
>> Ya know, you sure know a lot about crap.
>>
>> Sorry, I just couldn't resist ;)
>>
>> It always amazes me the bits of trivia one picks up reading these
>> groups.
>
> I picked this up reading a construction ng... :-)
>
> Crap is their business. :-)



Mine too....



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Morgans]

"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>> Of course, our energy bills just shot through the roof,
>
> isn't it better to have a long term investment (paying back for itself)
> than buying carpet for a suite? --> insulation, better windows, energy
> efficient heaters/coolers, etc.

When you already have a fairly efficient building, the percentage gain,
over amount (less gas) used, is hard to make much gain on. If there were
really bad windows and crappy heaters, then you could justify the
expenditures.

Our problem is that natural gas just shot up by about double. If you heat
air, and water with natural gas, that is a direct increase. If you use
electricity, the bills still go up a tremendous amount, because most of the
peak use electricity is generated using natural gas.

So, the best route is to replace units with newer, more efficient units,
when they break. Until then, all we can do is bitch about the increased
bills. <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Margy]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> So the land adjacent to the inn is for sale, and we want to put an
> aviation themed restaurant on the site. It'll be the perfect fly-in
> restaurant, with breakfast all day, decent prices, ugly waitresses, and
> a 2nd-floor patio over-looking the airport. We want to call it "the
> Tower", and it'll have a great view of the runways!
>
> Trouble of it is, we don't know *anything* about running a restaurant.
> Now, this never stopped us before -- we didn't know anything about
> hotels, either -- but, hey, this sounds WAY more complicated, from my
> uneducated standpoint.
>
> Anyone here own/operate/manage a restaurant? Got any words of advice?
> Any advice on finding someone who DOES know something about
> restaurants?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
From what I've seen the "airport" restaurants don't do well, the local
restaurants that happen to be at the airport do very well. My advice
would be to hire the best managers/chefs/etc. you can and don't plan on
making money for a while.

Margy

[Jay Honeck]

> From what I've seen the "airport" restaurants don't do well, the local
> restaurants that happen to be at the airport do very well. My advice
> would be to hire the best managers/chefs/etc. you can and don't plan on
> making money for a while.

Well, we're pretty good at that last part!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Margy]

George Patterson wrote:
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> We also want to make the first floor available for banquets. Banquet
>> halls are in very short supply in Iowa City, for some reason.
>
>
> In that case, you might collaborate with some local organization. Here,
> many fraternal orgs (like the Knights of Columbus) rent out their
> meeting halls as banquet halls. Perhaps you could do the reverse.
>
> There's also a diner in Edison, NJ (called "The Pines" for some reason
> not involving trees that I can see) that does exactly what you have in
> mind. Most of the money comes from being a typical New Jersey diner, but
> they have room for banquet hosting.
>
> Jersey diners are real phenomenae. Large meals, lots of selections,
> reasonable prices, and open long hours. Don't know how they do it.
>
> George Patterson
> Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
> your slightly older self.
That's what he should open!! A real, New Jersey Diner! Start thinking
stainless steel, greek flair to everything (read stuffed grape leaves on
the salad bar), good burgers, long hours, a bar helps. Open 24 hours.
Market to the grad school crowd, they have some $$, stay up at all hours
and will be a good base. Add a party room (book the room and the hotel,
get as smashed as you want, walk to your room). It would be great.

Margy

[Flyingmonk]

_________________________________________
That's what he should open!! A real, New Jersey Diner! Start thinking
stainless steel, greek flair to everything (read stuffed grape leaves
on
the salad bar), good burgers, long hours, a bar helps. Open 24 hours.
Market to the grad school crowd, they have some $$, stay up at all
hours
and will be a good base. Add a party room (book the room and the
hotel,
get as smashed as you want, walk to your room). It would be great.

Margy
_________________________________________

That's a great idea Margy. When I was in college, we always stayed up
longer than most places were willing stay open.

The Monk

[George Patterson]

Margy wrote:

> That's what he should open!! A real, New Jersey Diner! Start thinking
> stainless steel, greek flair to everything (read stuffed grape leaves on
> the salad bar), good burgers, long hours, a bar helps. Open 24 hours.

And the desert cabinet is unbelievable! I've never actually eaten one, since I'm
stuffed long before desert time, but they just look soooo good!

Never been to one with a bar.

Jay, if you fly in for a little research, we'll take you up to the one on Easton
Avenue in Franklin Township.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay, if you fly in for a little research, we'll take you up to the one on
> Easton Avenue in Franklin Township.

Thanks! I just may take you up on that later this year.

We're still trying to get the danged property at this point. It's been a
very frustrating ride...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Flyingmonk]

>We're still trying to get the danged property at this point. It's been a
>very frustrating ride...

So... THIS is the source of your frustration then? :^)

The Monk

[Jay Honeck]

> >We're still trying to get the danged property at this point. It's been a
>>very frustrating ride...
>
> So... THIS is the source of your frustration then? :^)

Nah. We'll get it. It's just a matter of patience.

However, regarding our "other" thread about government workers, I really do
resent the way our government is structured and run. (Trust me, the way
government workers have become a privileged class of employees is only a
very minor gripe, in the overall scheme of things.)

Every day I am in business (and this is my third one, now, since 1988)
convinces me more and more that the only thing that will fix the horrible
mess we're in is either (a) a revolution, (b) a complete financial collapse,
ala the 1929 crash, or (c) a completely new political party that will
capture the imagination of the electorate, and actually deliver.

The scary thing is that (c) is our best-case scenario -- and we've all seen
what happens when things get so bad that we need a White Knight political
party to "save the day"...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jose]

> you can also lower the temperature for 1 degree C, this saves alsoa lot of
> money.

.... at the expense of comfort. One degree makes a big difference, and
if a person comes to a hotel and is not comfortable, they will likely
not return.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Jose > wrote:

> > you can also lower the temperature for 1 degree C, this saves alsoa lot of
> > money.
>
> ... at the expense of comfort. One degree makes a big difference, and
> if a person comes to a hotel and is not comfortable, they will likely
> not return.

I don't recall being in a US hotel room where I couldn't adjust the room
temperature.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Randy Aldous]

> you can also lower the temperature for 1 degree C, this saves alsoa lot of
> money.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but I would suspect most hotel rooms are
unoccupied for a goodly portion of a guest's stay, assuming it is more
than one night.

Jay - I assume you turn the heat/ AC (depending on season) down in the
unoccpied rooms.

You might want to take that a step farther and install occupancy
sensors, such that when the room is unoccupied for a "significant"
period, the heating/ac dials back to some preset lower, setting. When
the room again has people in it, the temp goes back up to whatever the
guest set it for. I have stayed in some properties that do that and it
seems to work out well. Just be sure to set the delay times so that its
not bouncing up and down if someone runs out to get ice or is in the
bathroom a while...

Get a little fancier and the control could be tied to your front desks
system, whereby the room is dialed back even further when not rented.
It could then dial it up whenthe guest checks in, so as to get a bit of
a jump start before they walk in.

Cost/ benefit applies, of course.

Randy

[George Patterson]

Randy Aldous wrote:

> Correct me if I am mistaken, but I would suspect most hotel rooms are
> unoccupied for a goodly portion of a guest's stay, assuming it is more
> than one night.

At the ones at which I've stayed, the heat or A/C was turned down or off by the
cleaning staff every morning.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Jay Honeck]

>> Correct me if I am mistaken, but I would suspect most hotel rooms are
>> unoccupied for a goodly portion of a guest's stay, assuming it is more
>> than one night.
>
> At the ones at which I've stayed, the heat or A/C was turned down or off
> by the cleaning staff every morning.

Yep, that's what we do. Our housekeepers are instructed to turn the
thermostats down (or up, in summer) to 60 degrees in winter, and 80 degrees
in summer.

We've tried colder/warmer, but our big suites take too long to heat up/cool
down. Guests just don't like checking into a too cold/hot unit, for some
reason!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Otis Winslow]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> Correct me if I am mistaken, but I would suspect most hotel rooms are
>>>unoccupied for a goodly portion of a guest's stay, assuming it is more
>>>than one night.
>>
>>At the ones at which I've stayed, the heat or A/C was turned down or off
>>by the cleaning staff every morning.
>
>
> Yep, that's what we do. Our housekeepers are instructed to turn the
> thermostats down (or up, in summer) to 60 degrees in winter, and 80 degrees
> in summer.
>
> We've tried colder/warmer, but our big suites take too long to heat up/cool
> down. Guests just don't like checking into a too cold/hot unit, for some
> reason!

Have housekeeping take a few minutes and run around and adjust the
heat/air on the rooms you have reservations for at normal time they're
available for check in. Otherwise leave them.

[Jay Honeck]

>> We've tried colder/warmer, but our big suites take too long to heat
>> up/cool down. Guests just don't like checking into a too cold/hot unit,
>> for some reason!
>
> Have housekeeping take a few minutes and run around and adjust the
> heat/air on the rooms you have reservations for at normal time they're
> available for check in. Otherwise leave them.

Although I would like to believe that our house-keepers are that good
(currently, they are), it's not something we can count on. Housekeeping is
a high-turnover, thankless job, and adding ANYTHING to their
responsibilities is problematic.

In short, we've tried making the position do this kind of stuff, when we had
particularly good staff. That works fine, until they quit, and you are
forced to hire someone not so good. Suddenly, you've created a position
that requires a more self-directed person than the pay can afford to buy,
and it all falls apart.

So, we now stick strictly to the KISS principle with housekeeping, and it
all works better.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"