LSA - Zodiac CH601XL

[Al]

According to the EAA list, there are currently 23 Special Light Sport
Aircraft currently available. http://www.sportpilot.org/slsa/

It appears that the Zodiac CH601XL is manufactured or distributed by at
least 3 companies.

http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/specification.html
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance-sp.html
http://www.airplane.cz/pages/ch601_zodiac.htm

AMD seems to hold the Airworthiness Certificate
http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html

So who's airplane is this really? What is the relationship between these
companies. They each have differant Options, prices, and performance.
Are these really 3 separate LSA's?

Al CFIAMI

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Al" > wrote in message
...
> According to the EAA list, there are currently 23 Special Light Sport
> Aircraft currently available. http://www.sportpilot.org/slsa/
>
> It appears that the Zodiac CH601XL is manufactured or distributed by at
> least 3 companies.
>
> http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/specification.html
> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance-sp.html
> http://www.airplane.cz/pages/ch601_zodiac.htm
>
> AMD seems to hold the Airworthiness Certificate
> http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html
>
> So who's airplane is this really? What is the relationship between
> these companies. They each have differant Options, prices, and
> performance.
> Are these really 3 separate LSA's?
>
> Al CFIAMI
>

I may get this wrong but here goes..


The AMD plane is the S-LSA

The Czech plane is an E-LSA

The Specs on the zenithair.com site are the same ones that have been there
since 2001 when I started building so really apply to the Experimental- Home
built.

[Al]

Ah-ha, I'll bet you are right.

Now that I read the EAA's site a little more carefully, it says:

EAA's Listing of Special-LSA Airplanes
For the following airplanes, EAA has received a copy of the airworthiness
certificate (FAA form 8130-7) verifying that the company has received at
least one Special-Light Sport Aircraft (SLSA) airworthiness certificate.

the key words being "at least one" (SLSA). Not neccesarily this one. Thanks.

Al





"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
>
> "Al" > wrote in message
> ...
>> According to the EAA list, there are currently 23 Special Light Sport
>> Aircraft currently available. http://www.sportpilot.org/slsa/
>>
>> It appears that the Zodiac CH601XL is manufactured or distributed by
>> at least 3 companies.
>>
>> http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/specification.html
>> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance-sp.html
>> http://www.airplane.cz/pages/ch601_zodiac.htm
>>
>> AMD seems to hold the Airworthiness Certificate
>> http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html
>>
>> So who's airplane is this really? What is the relationship between
>> these companies. They each have differant Options, prices, and
>> performance.
>> Are these really 3 separate LSA's?
>>
>> Al CFIAMI
>>
>
> I may get this wrong but here goes..
>
>
> The AMD plane is the S-LSA
>
> The Czech plane is an E-LSA
>
> The Specs on the zenithair.com site are the same ones that have been there
> since 2001 when I started building so really apply to the Experimental-
> Home built.
>

[sleepy6]

In article >,
says...
>
> According to the EAA list, there are currently 23 Special Light Sp
>ort
>Aircraft currently available. http://www.sportpilot.org/slsa/
>
> It appears that the Zodiac CH601XL is manufactured or distributed
>by at
>least 3 companies.
>
>http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/specification.html
>http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance-sp.html
>http://www.airplane.cz/pages/ch601_zodiac.htm
>
>AMD seems to hold the Airworthiness Certificate
>http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html
>
> So who's airplane is this really? What is the relationship between
> these
>companies. They each have differant Options, prices, and performance.
>Are these really 3 separate LSA's?
>
>Al CFIAMI
>
>


It gets a bit confusing because there are two kinds of
ELSA.

One type is the exact same plane as SLSA except it is
sold as a kit. It can be at any stage of completion but
not 100% complete. It is built to consensous standards
and recieves certain operating limitations. So far the
consensous standards have not been completed for this
type ELSA so they can not yet be sold.

The other type is any plane that meets the following.
Max weight = 1320 pounds
max speed = 138 MPH
Max stall speed = 51 MPH
Single or 2 place only
ANYTHING can be registered this way until 2010. It can
be 100% complete and it does not have to meet any
consensous standards. It will get much more restrictive
operating limitations that are simular to the ultralight
part 103 limitations.

Be aware of the differences in operating limitations
because they are important. Unfortunatly there is a
distributor involved who has claimed that one type of
ELSA was actually the other type of ELSA in the past.
Remember that the consensous standard ELSA can not yet
be sold. This distributer is all over the net so be
very careful about what you are actually getting if you
buy. Double check the operating limitations on the
plane before you hand over any cash.

If you are manufactureing SLSA planes (which by
definition meet the consensous standards) and a
customer wants a consensous standards type ELSA, You
simply pull one of the SLSA off the production line at
any point prior to its completion that the customer
wants. You then hand him whatever parts it takes to
complete that kit and a construction manual that he
must follow exactly. Apparently the manual content is
one of the things holding up approval of ELSA
consensous standards.

The consensous standards include a lot of physical
requirements that the factory must meet. A lot of
overly detailed crap about areas to be used for
recieving parts and material and inspecting it. Areas
to be used for secure storage of those parts and
material which passed inspection. Areas to be used for
secure storage of parts and material that do not pass
inspection. The plane is only part of it. The factory
itself is another part of it.

It makes no sense to set up a factory to only produce
consensous standards type ELSA but no SLSA. On top of
that, why have a factory in this country to produce
only SLSA and a Czcheck factory to produce only ELSA?

Keep in mind that the following is complicated and I
may get a few details wrong because I don't know Chris
personally. Any wrong details shouldn't affect the
main point. This is long but ya might learn something
from Chris Heintz who is a very smart man who has a
long history of success in aviation.

Chris Heintz owns Zenair Ltd located in Midland,
Ontario, Canada which he started in 1974. They seem to
limit themselves to 4 place kits for the amateur built
experimental market now. Chris and/or Zenair Ltd
licence other companies to build Zodiacs and other
Chris Heintz designs.
http://www.zenair.com

Zenith Aircraft Company (573-581-9000) located in
Mexico Missouri and started in 1992 is run by Chris's
son Sebastien. They seem to limit themselves to 2
place kits for the amateur built experimental market.
http://www.zenithair.com

Aircraft Manufactureing and Development Company (AMD)
located in Eastman, Georgia is run by Chris's son
Mathieu Heintz.
http://www.flyalarus.com
They manufacturer the Alarus which is an FAA type
certified plane that Chris designed. They recently
started manufacturing the SLSA version of the Zodiac.

Czceck Aircraft Works in the Czeck Republic. President
Chip Erwin.
http://www.czaw.cz/index.php
They are licensed to manufacture several of the Chris
Heintz designs includeing his floats, CH601 Zodiac UL,
CH601 Zodiac HD, and the CH601 XL. They offer all 3
models as 49% kits, quick build kits and ready to fly.
Note that they primarily supply the european market
which has different standards than the sport pilot
consensous standards. I could not find one word on
their site that indicated any of their products
qualifies to meet the sport pilot consensous standards.

Also note that they designed the Mermaid. The second
prototype had less than 5 hours on it when they shipped
it to Oshkosh to participate in this years Airventure.

The problem with the last 2 factories is that their
Zodiacs are sold through a US distributer. The line
between the different ELSA types and the SLSA itself
sometimes gets blured when they advertise the Zodiac.
Be very careful.

http://www.sportsplanes.com
Josh Foss 801-420-6176

Also checkout
http://www.pellien.com/MASPL.htm
Jim Pellien is the Mid Atlantic distributor
No contact info on his site above but

703-313-4818 Alexandria, Va.

When Chris decided to
produce SLSAs it was easier to modify the USA factory
that produced type certified planes since there aren't
too many differences in the requirements and they
didn't produce many type certified planes anyway. I
have no doubt that Chris did indeed get an SLSA Zodiac
approved to be manufactured in that factory. Chris and
his brother were both very active on the ASTM
consensous standards committee and Chris is real sharp.

Now lets think a bit.

If the consensous standards were complete for
consensous standards type ELSA, it would be logical to
pull them off the SLSA production line in the USA
plant. It doesn't seem logical to modify a plant
overseas to produce consensous standards ELSA (but no
SLSA because that would compete with his USA plant) and
have them shipped to the USA.

In fact those planes made overseas can be sold here as
grandfathered ELSA with the more restrictive UL type
operating limitations until 2010 without spending a dime
to modify anything.

Considering the lack of demand until SP gets kick
started what would you do if you were Chris?

If it was me, I would simply wait until the consensous
standards are complete and then start pulling
consensous standards ELSA off my SLSA production line
as they are needed.

[Al]

Thank you gentlemen, I am making a presentation to our local EAA chapter on
the new S-LSA's becoming available. The information you provided will aid me
in anwering questions, and at least sounding like I know what I'm talking
about.

Al




"Bryan Martin" > wrote in message
...
> Chris Heintz designed the CH601XL. He started a kit aircraft company
> (Zenair, Ltd.) in Canada several years ago to market his kit airplane
> designs. This is still the main "design house".
>
> Zenith Aircraft (ZenithAir) was started up later by a couple of his sons
> in
> Mexico, Missouri to build and sell their father's kit designs. Zenith
> Aircraft builds the experimental-amatuer built version of the CH601XL,
> which
> can be flown under the LSA rules by sport pilot.
>
> AMD was started up in Georgia by another of Chris's sons to build another
> of
> Chris's designs, the CH2000 Alarus, under FAA certification. This factory
> is
> building the SLSA version of the CH601XL.
>
> Czech Aircraft Works is licensed by Chris Heintz to build the CH601 series
> aircraft as ready-to-fly airplanes in Europe. They also build parts for
> the
> kits sold by Zenith Aircraft in Missouri. I believe they also sell the
> CH601XL as an ELSA to American customers.
>
>
> in article , Al at
> wrote on 1/11/06 12:04 PM:
>
>> According to the EAA list, there are currently 23 Special Light Sport
>> Aircraft currently available. http://www.sportpilot.org/slsa/
>>
>> It appears that the Zodiac CH601XL is manufactured or distributed by at
>> least 3 companies.
>>
>> http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/specification.html
>> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance-sp.html
>> http://www.airplane.cz/pages/ch601_zodiac.htm
>>
>> AMD seems to hold the Airworthiness Certificate
>> http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html
>>
>> So who's airplane is this really? What is the relationship between
>> these
>> companies. They each have differant Options, prices, and performance.
>> Are these really 3 separate LSA's?
>>
>> Al CFIAMI
>>
>>
>

[Montblack]

("sleepy6" wrote)
> It gets a bit confusing because there are two kinds of ELSA.
>
> One type is the exact same plane as SLSA except it is sold as a kit. It
> can be at any stage of completion but not 100% complete. It is built to
> consensous standards and recieves certain operating limitations. So far
> the consensous standards have not been completed for this type ELSA so
> they can not yet be sold.

[more good stuff snipped...]


Thanks for posting this information.

I was reading my Jan 06 EAA Sport Pilot/LSA magazine today (page 30)
....Option #2 talked about this very issue.

What a mess....


Montblack

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Here's something you can print up as a hand out. 19 page summary of the
rule.

http://www.sportpilot.org/rule/sp_rule.pdf


"Al" > wrote in message
...
> Thank you gentlemen, I am making a presentation to our local EAA chapter
> on the new S-LSA's becoming available. The information you provided will
> aid me in anwering questions, and at least sounding like I know what I'm
> talking about.
>
> Al
>
>
>
>
> "Bryan Martin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Chris Heintz designed the CH601XL. He started a kit aircraft company
>> (Zenair, Ltd.) in Canada several years ago to market his kit airplane
>> designs. This is still the main "design house".
>>
>> Zenith Aircraft (ZenithAir) was started up later by a couple of his sons
>> in
>> Mexico, Missouri to build and sell their father's kit designs. Zenith
>> Aircraft builds the experimental-amatuer built version of the CH601XL,
>> which
>> can be flown under the LSA rules by sport pilot.
>>
>> AMD was started up in Georgia by another of Chris's sons to build another
>> of
>> Chris's designs, the CH2000 Alarus, under FAA certification. This factory
>> is
>> building the SLSA version of the CH601XL.
>>
>> Czech Aircraft Works is licensed by Chris Heintz to build the CH601
>> series
>> aircraft as ready-to-fly airplanes in Europe. They also build parts for
>> the
>> kits sold by Zenith Aircraft in Missouri. I believe they also sell the
>> CH601XL as an ELSA to American customers.
>>
>>
>> in article , Al at
>> wrote on 1/11/06 12:04 PM:
>>
>>> According to the EAA list, there are currently 23 Special Light Sport
>>> Aircraft currently available. http://www.sportpilot.org/slsa/
>>>
>>> It appears that the Zodiac CH601XL is manufactured or distributed by
>>> at
>>> least 3 companies.
>>>
>>> http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/specification.html
>>> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance-sp.html
>>> http://www.airplane.cz/pages/ch601_zodiac.htm
>>>
>>> AMD seems to hold the Airworthiness Certificate
>>> http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html
>>>
>>> So who's airplane is this really? What is the relationship between
>>> these
>>> companies. They each have differant Options, prices, and performance.
>>> Are these really 3 separate LSA's?
>>>
>>> Al CFIAMI
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[Al]

Thanks. How is yours coming?

Al


"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
> Here's something you can print up as a hand out. 19 page summary of the
> rule.
>
> http://www.sportpilot.org/rule/sp_rule.pdf
>
>
> "Al" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Thank you gentlemen, I am making a presentation to our local EAA chapter
>> on the new S-LSA's becoming available. The information you provided will
>> aid me in anwering questions, and at least sounding like I know what I'm
>> talking about.
>>
>> Al
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bryan Martin" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Chris Heintz designed the CH601XL. He started a kit aircraft company
>>> (Zenair, Ltd.) in Canada several years ago to market his kit airplane
>>> designs. This is still the main "design house".
>>>
>>> Zenith Aircraft (ZenithAir) was started up later by a couple of his sons
>>> in
>>> Mexico, Missouri to build and sell their father's kit designs. Zenith
>>> Aircraft builds the experimental-amatuer built version of the CH601XL,
>>> which
>>> can be flown under the LSA rules by sport pilot.
>>>
>>> AMD was started up in Georgia by another of Chris's sons to build
>>> another of
>>> Chris's designs, the CH2000 Alarus, under FAA certification. This
>>> factory is
>>> building the SLSA version of the CH601XL.
>>>
>>> Czech Aircraft Works is licensed by Chris Heintz to build the CH601
>>> series
>>> aircraft as ready-to-fly airplanes in Europe. They also build parts for
>>> the
>>> kits sold by Zenith Aircraft in Missouri. I believe they also sell the
>>> CH601XL as an ELSA to American customers.
>>>
>>>
>>> in article , Al at
>>> wrote on 1/11/06 12:04 PM:
>>>
>>>> According to the EAA list, there are currently 23 Special Light Sport
>>>> Aircraft currently available. http://www.sportpilot.org/slsa/
>>>>
>>>> It appears that the Zodiac CH601XL is manufactured or distributed by
>>>> at
>>>> least 3 companies.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/specification.html
>>>> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance-sp.html
>>>> http://www.airplane.cz/pages/ch601_zodiac.htm
>>>>
>>>> AMD seems to hold the Airworthiness Certificate
>>>> http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html
>>>>
>>>> So who's airplane is this really? What is the relationship between
>>>> these
>>>> companies. They each have differant Options, prices, and performance.
>>>> Are these really 3 separate LSA's?
>>>>
>>>> Al CFIAMI
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Lou]

Nice print out. Can anyone answer this question?
The rule states that the aircraft can not hold more than two persons
including the pilot.
Does this mean if you have a 3 or 4 seat home built that falls within
(not that there are many) the weight, speed and stall maximums, with
removable seats for (luggage, golf clubs, cargo, etc...) whatever you
can or can't fly it as a ESLA after removing the extra seats?

[Lakeview Bill]

Don't know if it would apply under these circumstances, but the rule states
that an aircraft must have met the regulation at the time of its
certification, and must have continuously met those regulations.

In other words, if the airplane EVER failed to meet the regulation, it could
not be flown by a sport pilot.



"Lou" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Nice print out. Can anyone answer this question?
> The rule states that the aircraft can not hold more than two persons
> including the pilot.
> Does this mean if you have a 3 or 4 seat home built that falls within
> (not that there are many) the weight, speed and stall maximums, with
> removable seats for (luggage, golf clubs, cargo, etc...) whatever you
> can or can't fly it as a ESLA after removing the extra seats?
>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Pretty good. Check it out at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR.


"Al" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks. How is yours coming?
>
> Al
>
>
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
> ...
>> Here's something you can print up as a hand out. 19 page summary of the
>> rule.
>>
>> http://www.sportpilot.org/rule/sp_rule.pdf
>>
>>
>> "Al" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Thank you gentlemen, I am making a presentation to our local EAA chapter
>>> on the new S-LSA's becoming available. The information you provided will
>>> aid me in anwering questions, and at least sounding like I know what I'm
>>> talking about.
>>>
>>> Al
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bryan Martin" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Chris Heintz designed the CH601XL. He started a kit aircraft company
>>>> (Zenair, Ltd.) in Canada several years ago to market his kit airplane
>>>> designs. This is still the main "design house".
>>>>
>>>> Zenith Aircraft (ZenithAir) was started up later by a couple of his
>>>> sons in
>>>> Mexico, Missouri to build and sell their father's kit designs. Zenith
>>>> Aircraft builds the experimental-amatuer built version of the CH601XL,
>>>> which
>>>> can be flown under the LSA rules by sport pilot.
>>>>
>>>> AMD was started up in Georgia by another of Chris's sons to build
>>>> another of
>>>> Chris's designs, the CH2000 Alarus, under FAA certification. This
>>>> factory is
>>>> building the SLSA version of the CH601XL.
>>>>
>>>> Czech Aircraft Works is licensed by Chris Heintz to build the CH601
>>>> series
>>>> aircraft as ready-to-fly airplanes in Europe. They also build parts for
>>>> the
>>>> kits sold by Zenith Aircraft in Missouri. I believe they also sell the
>>>> CH601XL as an ELSA to American customers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> in article , Al at
>>>> wrote on 1/11/06 12:04 PM:
>>>>
>>>>> According to the EAA list, there are currently 23 Special Light
>>>>> Sport
>>>>> Aircraft currently available. http://www.sportpilot.org/slsa/
>>>>>
>>>>> It appears that the Zodiac CH601XL is manufactured or distributed by
>>>>> at
>>>>> least 3 companies.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/specification.html
>>>>> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance-sp.html
>>>>> http://www.airplane.cz/pages/ch601_zodiac.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> AMD seems to hold the Airworthiness Certificate
>>>>> http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html
>>>>>
>>>>> So who's airplane is this really? What is the relationship between
>>>>> these
>>>>> companies. They each have differant Options, prices, and performance.
>>>>> Are these really 3 separate LSA's?
>>>>>
>>>>> Al CFIAMI
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[ET]

"Lou" > wrote in news:1137082550.950815.227080
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> Nice print out. Can anyone answer this question?
> The rule states that the aircraft can not hold more than two persons
> including the pilot.
> Does this mean if you have a 3 or 4 seat home built that falls within
> (not that there are many) the weight, speed and stall maximums, with
> removable seats for (luggage, golf clubs, cargo, etc...) whatever you
> can or can't fly it as a ESLA after removing the extra seats?
>


You can-not fly it as a sport pilot if it ever had those 2 seats in it... I
would have never meet the 1320lb gross limit anyway.. but you get the
picture. Another good example of the "since it's original certification"
quandry is the old Ercoupe C's that have been converted to D's, cannot be
converted back to a C and still flown by a sport pilot.


--
-- ET >:-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams