Lifespan of a parachute canopy?

[Martyn Johnson]

Does anyone know when our 17 year old emergency parachute
canopy will pass its use-by date? Indeed, is there
a definite lifespan, or is it down to the discretion
of the packer?

The 'chute has always been stored indoors in a dark
dry cupboard.

Also, has anyone had any experience of having a new
canopy fitted?

[Peter Hermann]

Martyn Johnson > wrote:
> Does anyone know when our 17 year old emergency parachute
> canopy will pass its use-by date? Indeed, is there
> a definite lifespan, or is it down to the discretion
> of the packer?
>
> The 'chute has always been stored indoors in a dark
> dry cupboard.
>
> Also, has anyone had any experience of having a new
> canopy fitted?

Lifespan depends on regulations of the country, e.g.
in Germany the lifespan of emergency parachutes is set to 15 years.

I am going to sell 3 chutes for my club right now which ended in 2005.
I am expecting 100 or up to 150 euros for each.

People often use them as decoration or for group gymnastic/dancing.

--
--Peter Hermann(49)0711-685-87244
--Nobelstr.19 Raum 0.030, D-70569 Stuttgart IHR Hoechstleistungsrechnen
--http://www.ihr.uni-stuttgart.de/ Fax 0711-89238279

[[email protected]]

In the USA, there isn't really any life span of canopies set for by
the FAA. However, some manufacturers are limiting their life span of
canopies, or harness/containers systems. For example, National limits
their life span to 15 years, Paraphernalia Softie is doing the same,
but Strong Enterprises rigs are good to use as long as they pass the
canopy/canopy fabric tests. On the other hand, Performance Designs
wants to see reserve canopies in their factory after 40 repack cycles.
If the canopy passes the tests they will return it back to you and you
are good to go. Having said that, me as a rigger, I am not repacking
parachutes that are older than 15 years. And in general, if I remember
correctly, the PIA (Parachute Industry Association) also agrees that 15
years is the "life span" of a canopy but I am not quite positive on
that. I'll check with them and let you know. The problem with
parachutes is not the age alone. There is some other factors playing
important role in the fabric degradation. The main factor is the repack
cycle. According to the FAA, if your canopy is made of synthetic fibers
the repack cycle is 120 days and 60 days in a case on natural fibers
but that is history. The main degradation of fabric comes from handling
and repacking the canopy. When the rig is due for a repack the canopy
is pulled out of container or deployment bag in a case of sport
parachute. Then the rigger inspects the whole system, let the canopy
dry up and if everything is a OK it goes back into the container or
deployment bag. This insertion into the deployment bag or container is
the biggest stress for the fabric. And then you fly in it. You sit on
it. It works in some cases as a cushion. And after your are done
flying, you leave it in the direct sunlight, high temperatures and then
when you put your glider away in the trailer the poor rig is being
cooked. In some cases people will take them home....well, at list they
were attempting that, because the rig rides in a trunk of your car in
heat and cold. There is a push from the industry with the FAA to change
the repack cycle to 180 days. That will help with multiple issues. I
jumped a main sport parachute that sit in a deployment bag for over 2
years. It worked just fine. Still, I believe that a good parachute is
worth spending the money and it is worth of having and flying with it.

[Martyn Johnson]

Thanks for this. I must admit to being against very
regular repacking of emergency parachutes - I think
once a year is plenty as long as I know it is not abused
(eg allowed to get wet) and stored well.

Martyn

At 18:00 11 January 2006,
wrote:
>In the USA, there isn't really any life span of canopies
>set for by
>the FAA. However, some manufacturers are limiting their
>life span of
>canopies, or harness/containers systems. For example,
>National limits
>their life span to 15 years, Paraphernalia Softie is
>doing the same,
>but Strong Enterprises rigs are good to use as long
>as they pass the
>canopy/canopy fabric tests. On the other hand, Performance
>Designs
>wants to see reserve canopies in their factory after
>40 repack cycles.
>If the canopy passes the tests they will return it
>back to you and you
>are good to go. Having said that, me as a rigger, I
>am not repacking
>parachutes that are older than 15 years. And in general,
>if I remember
>correctly, the PIA (Parachute Industry Association)
>also agrees that 15
>years is the 'life span' of a canopy but I am not quite
>positive on
>that. I'll check with them and let you know. The problem
>with
>parachutes is not the age alone. There is some other
>factors playing
>important role in the fabric degradation. The main
>factor is the repack
>cycle. According to the FAA, if your canopy is made
>of synthetic fibers
>the repack cycle is 120 days and 60 days in a case
>on natural fibers
>but that is history. The main degradation of fabric
>comes from handling
>and repacking the canopy. When the rig is due for a
>repack the canopy
>is pulled out of container or deployment bag in a case
>of sport
>parachute. Then the rigger inspects the whole system,
>let the canopy
>dry up and if everything is a OK it goes back into
>the container or
>deployment bag. This insertion into the deployment
>bag or container is
>the biggest stress for the fabric. And then you fly
>in it. You sit on
>it. It works in some cases as a cushion. And after
>your are done
>flying, you leave it in the direct sunlight, high temperatures
>and then
>when you put your glider away in the trailer the poor
>rig is being
>cooked. In some cases people will take them home....well,
>at list they
>were attempting that, because the rig rides in a trunk
>of your car in
>heat and cold. There is a push from the industry with
>the FAA to change
>the repack cycle to 180 days. That will help with multiple
>issues. I
>jumped a main sport parachute that sit in a deployment
>bag for over 2
>years. It worked just fine. Still, I believe that a
>good parachute is
>worth spending the money and it is worth of having
>and flying with it.
>
>

[Martyn Johnson]

Thanks for this. I must admit to being against very
regular repacking of emergency parachutes - I think
once a year is plenty as long as I know it is not abused
(eg allowed to get wet) and stored well.

Martyn

At 18:00 11 January 2006,
wrote:
>In the USA, there isn't really any life span of canopies
>set for by
>the FAA. However, some manufacturers are limiting their
>life span of
>canopies, or harness/containers systems. For example,
>National limits
>their life span to 15 years, Paraphernalia Softie is
>doing the same,
>but Strong Enterprises rigs are good to use as long
>as they pass the
>canopy/canopy fabric tests. On the other hand, Performance
>Designs
>wants to see reserve canopies in their factory after
>40 repack cycles.
>If the canopy passes the tests they will return it
>back to you and you
>are good to go. Having said that, me as a rigger, I
>am not repacking
>parachutes that are older than 15 years. And in general,
>if I remember
>correctly, the PIA (Parachute Industry Association)
>also agrees that 15
>years is the 'life span' of a canopy but I am not quite
>positive on
>that. I'll check with them and let you know. The problem
>with
>parachutes is not the age alone. There is some other
>factors playing
>important role in the fabric degradation. The main
>factor is the repack
>cycle. According to the FAA, if your canopy is made
>of synthetic fibers
>the repack cycle is 120 days and 60 days in a case
>on natural fibers
>but that is history. The main degradation of fabric
>comes from handling
>and repacking the canopy. When the rig is due for a
>repack the canopy
>is pulled out of container or deployment bag in a case
>of sport
>parachute. Then the rigger inspects the whole system,
>let the canopy
>dry up and if everything is a OK it goes back into
>the container or
>deployment bag. This insertion into the deployment
>bag or container is
>the biggest stress for the fabric. And then you fly
>in it. You sit on
>it. It works in some cases as a cushion. And after
>your are done
>flying, you leave it in the direct sunlight, high temperatures
>and then
>when you put your glider away in the trailer the poor
>rig is being
>cooked. In some cases people will take them home....well,
>at list they
>were attempting that, because the rig rides in a trunk
>of your car in
>heat and cold. There is a push from the industry with
>the FAA to change
>the repack cycle to 180 days. That will help with multiple
>issues. I
>jumped a main sport parachute that sit in a deployment
>bag for over 2
>years. It worked just fine. Still, I believe that a
>good parachute is
>worth spending the money and it is worth of having
>and flying with it.
>
>

[Eric Greenwell]

wrote:
> In the USA, there isn't really any life span of canopies set for by
> the FAA. However, some manufacturers are limiting their life span of
> canopies, or harness/containers systems. For example, National limits
> their life span to 15 years, Paraphernalia Softie is doing the same,
> but Strong Enterprises rigs are good to use as long as they pass the
> canopy/canopy fabric tests.

Do the manufacturers give a reason for this, such as discovering
parachutes that are no longer safe after 15 years, or industry tests
that shows fabric deteriorates in a manner that can't be found by
inspection? Or is this simply a convenient way to limit their liability?
Without knowing more, I see no reason to buy anything but a Strong
parachute. Why buy a parachute that's worthless (or maybe unsafe) after
15 years?

From what you say below, there are many stress factors on a parachute,
and the implication is the industry (or at least some of it) doesn't
know to test for potential problems. What puzzles me is these packing an
usage stresses don't seem very demanding for synthetic fabrics. Sport
parachutes get much more handling and use (jumping a parachute seems
like far more stress than using it as a cushion!), so it's hard to
understand why our chutes should degrade significantly in 15 years.

On the other hand, Performance Designs
> wants to see reserve canopies in their factory after 40 repack cycles.
> If the canopy passes the tests they will return it back to you and you
> are good to go. Having said that, me as a rigger, I am not repacking
> parachutes that are older than 15 years. And in general, if I remember
> correctly, the PIA (Parachute Industry Association) also agrees that 15
> years is the "life span" of a canopy but I am not quite positive on
> that. I'll check with them and let you know. The problem with
> parachutes is not the age alone. There is some other factors playing
> important role in the fabric degradation. The main factor is the repack
> cycle. According to the FAA, if your canopy is made of synthetic fibers
> the repack cycle is 120 days and 60 days in a case on natural fibers
> but that is history. The main degradation of fabric comes from handling
> and repacking the canopy. When the rig is due for a repack the canopy
> is pulled out of container or deployment bag in a case of sport
> parachute. Then the rigger inspects the whole system, let the canopy
> dry up and if everything is a OK it goes back into the container or
> deployment bag. This insertion into the deployment bag or container is
> the biggest stress for the fabric. And then you fly in it. You sit on
> it. It works in some cases as a cushion. And after your are done
> flying, you leave it in the direct sunlight, high temperatures and then
> when you put your glider away in the trailer the poor rig is being
> cooked. In some cases people will take them home....well, at list they
> were attempting that, because the rig rides in a trunk of your car in
> heat and cold. There is a push from the industry with the FAA to change
> the repack cycle to 180 days. That will help with multiple issues. I
> jumped a main sport parachute that sit in a deployment bag for over 2
> years. It worked just fine. Still, I believe that a good parachute is
> worth spending the money and it is worth of having and flying with it.
>


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[John Galloway]

See this link to an article that includes the Strong
company's view that there need be no specific limit
to the life of a properly maintained and stored Strong
canopy:

http://www.strongparachutes.com/Pages/Articles.html




At 17:18 13 January 2006, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote:
>> In the USA, there isn't really any life span of canopies
>>set for by
>> the FAA. However, some manufacturers are limiting
>>their life span of
>> canopies, or harness/containers systems. For example,
>>National limits
>> their life span to 15 years, Paraphernalia Softie
>>is doing the same,
>> but Strong Enterprises rigs are good to use as long
>>as they pass the
>> canopy/canopy fabric tests.
>
>Do the manufacturers give a reason for this, such as
>discovering
>parachutes that are no longer safe after 15 years,
>or industry tests
>that shows fabric deteriorates in a manner that can't
>be found by
>inspection? Or is this simply a convenient way to limit
>their liability?
>Without knowing more, I see no reason to buy anything
>but a Strong
>parachute. Why buy a parachute that's worthless (or
>maybe unsafe) after
>15 years?
>
> From what you say below, there are many stress factors
>on a parachute,
>and the implication is the industry (or at least some
>of it) doesn't
>know to test for potential problems. What puzzles me
>is these packing an
>usage stresses don't seem very demanding for synthetic
>fabrics. Sport
>parachutes get much more handling and use (jumping
>a parachute seems
>like far more stress than using it as a cushion!),
>so it's hard to
>understand why our chutes should degrade significantly
>in 15 years.
>
> On the other hand, Performance Designs
>> wants to see reserve canopies in their factory after
>>40 repack cycles.
>> If the canopy passes the tests they will return it
>>back to you and you
>> are good to go. Having said that, me as a rigger,
>>I am not repacking
>> parachutes that are older than 15 years. And in general,
>>if I remember
>> correctly, the PIA (Parachute Industry Association)
>>also agrees that 15
>> years is the 'life span' of a canopy but I am not
>>quite positive on
>> that. I'll check with them and let you know. The problem
>>with
>> parachutes is not the age alone. There is some other
>>factors playing
>> important role in the fabric degradation. The main
>>factor is the repack
>> cycle. According to the FAA, if your canopy is made
>>of synthetic fibers
>> the repack cycle is 120 days and 60 days in a case
>>on natural fibers
>> but that is history. The main degradation of fabric
>>comes from handling
>> and repacking the canopy. When the rig is due for
>>a repack the canopy
>> is pulled out of container or deployment bag in a
>>case of sport
>> parachute. Then the rigger inspects the whole system,
>>let the canopy
>> dry up and if everything is a OK it goes back into
>>the container or
>> deployment bag. This insertion into the deployment
>>bag or container is
>> the biggest stress for the fabric. And then you fly
>>in it. You sit on
>> it. It works in some cases as a cushion. And after
>>your are done
>> flying, you leave it in the direct sunlight, high
>>temperatures and then
>> when you put your glider away in the trailer the poor
>>rig is being
>> cooked. In some cases people will take them home....well,
>>at list they
>> were attempting that, because the rig rides in a trunk
>>of your car in
>> heat and cold. There is a push from the industry with
>>the FAA to change
>> the repack cycle to 180 days. That will help with
>>multiple issues. I
>> jumped a main sport parachute that sit in a deployment
>>bag for over 2
>> years. It worked just fine. Still, I believe that
>>a good parachute is
>> worth spending the money and it is worth of having
>>and flying with it.
>>
>
>
>--
>Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly
>
>Eric Greenwell
>Washington State
>USA
>

[Eric Greenwell]

John Galloway wrote:
> See this link to an article that includes the Strong
> company's view that there need be no specific limit
> to the life of a properly maintained and stored Strong
> canopy:
>
> http://www.strongparachutes.com/Pages/Articles.html

Very interesting read. It jibes with the practice and beliefs of many
glider pilots, including myself (I own a Strong parachute that is about
25 years old). It jibes with my knowledge of synthetic fabrics, which I
don't believe are harmed by temperatures in the -20 to 120 deg F range,
which they experience while my parachute is happily nestled in the
cockpit, in the trailer, in my driveway.

I was unable to find any reference to a 15 year service life (or any
life limitation) on the National or Softie websites, using a Google
search for "life". Can someone point me to where this information is?

The only reference I could find to "40" on the Performance Designs site
was a requirement in the "PD Series Ram-Air Reserve Parachute Owners
Manual" to check the permeability of the fabric after 40 repacks (other
factors could also trigger this), with the recommendation (not
requirement) to return it to the factory for testing. This does not
sound like a life limitation in any way.

In fact, returning the parachute to the manufacturer every 10 years or
so seems like a good idea. I did that with my Strong when it was 15
years old. They did some minor upgrades, which were included in the
repacking fee.
--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Bruce]

Not sure what the manufacturer thinks, but I just got my 19 year old (synthetic)
Pioneer 29" Tri-conical back from its annual inspection and pack.

Maybe it is that it has been kept cool and dry, and only opened once a year, but
the rigger reports it as good as new. Only sign of degradation is some staining
on the outside cover.

He is happy to keep on re-packing it as long as the fabric and shrouds pass the
strength test.

As for airbags, and the usefulness of safety devices. The only injury I have
ever sustained in a car, was when I had a bumper bash, and the airbag deployed.
Nasty friction burn the full length of my forearm. Still prefer to have one, and
I have now learned to drive without crossing my arm across the wheel.

Similarly with my parachute. I certainly have no ambition to use it as more than
a mildly uncomforable cusion, but I will replace it the moment the rigger
expresses reservations.

John Galloway wrote:
> See this link to an article that includes the Strong
> company's view that there need be no specific limit
> to the life of a properly maintained and stored Strong
> canopy:
>
> http://www.strongparachutes.com/Pages/Articles.html
>
>
>
>
> At 17:18 13 January 2006, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
wrote:
>>
>>>In the USA, there isn't really any life span of canopies
>>>set for by
>>>the FAA. However, some manufacturers are limiting
>>>their life span of
>>>canopies, or harness/containers systems. For example,
>>>National limits
>>>their life span to 15 years, Paraphernalia Softie
>>>is doing the same,
>>>but Strong Enterprises rigs are good to use as long
>>>as they pass the
>>>canopy/canopy fabric tests.
>>
>>Do the manufacturers give a reason for this, such as
>>discovering
>>parachutes that are no longer safe after 15 years,
>>or industry tests
>>that shows fabric deteriorates in a manner that can't
>>be found by
>>inspection? Or is this simply a convenient way to limit
>>their liability?
>>Without knowing more, I see no reason to buy anything
>>but a Strong
>>parachute. Why buy a parachute that's worthless (or
>>maybe unsafe) after
>>15 years?
>>
>>From what you say below, there are many stress factors
>>on a parachute,
>>and the implication is the industry (or at least some
>>of it) doesn't
>>know to test for potential problems. What puzzles me
>>is these packing an
>>usage stresses don't seem very demanding for synthetic
>>fabrics. Sport
>>parachutes get much more handling and use (jumping
>>a parachute seems
>>like far more stress than using it as a cushion!),
>>so it's hard to
>>understand why our chutes should degrade significantly
>>in 15 years.
>>
>> On the other hand, Performance Designs
>>
>>>wants to see reserve canopies in their factory after
>>>40 repack cycles.
>>>If the canopy passes the tests they will return it
>>>back to you and you
>>>are good to go. Having said that, me as a rigger,
>>>I am not repacking
>>>parachutes that are older than 15 years. And in general,
>>>if I remember
>>>correctly, the PIA (Parachute Industry Association)
>>>also agrees that 15
>>>years is the 'life span' of a canopy but I am not
>>>quite positive on
>>>that. I'll check with them and let you know. The problem
>>>with
>>>parachutes is not the age alone. There is some other
>>>factors playing
>>>important role in the fabric degradation. The main
>>>factor is the repack
>>>cycle. According to the FAA, if your canopy is made
>>>of synthetic fibers
>>>the repack cycle is 120 days and 60 days in a case
>>>on natural fibers
>>>but that is history. The main degradation of fabric
>>>comes from handling
>>>and repacking the canopy. When the rig is due for
>>>a repack the canopy
>>>is pulled out of container or deployment bag in a
>>>case of sport
>>>parachute. Then the rigger inspects the whole system,
>>>let the canopy
>>>dry up and if everything is a OK it goes back into
>>>the container or
>>>deployment bag. This insertion into the deployment
>>>bag or container is
>>>the biggest stress for the fabric. And then you fly
>>>in it. You sit on
>>>it. It works in some cases as a cushion. And after
>>>your are done
>>>flying, you leave it in the direct sunlight, high
>>>temperatures and then
>>>when you put your glider away in the trailer the poor
>>>rig is being
>>>cooked. In some cases people will take them home....well,
>>>at list they
>>>were attempting that, because the rig rides in a trunk
>>>of your car in
>>>heat and cold. There is a push from the industry with
>>>the FAA to change
>>>the repack cycle to 180 days. That will help with
>>>multiple issues. I
>>>jumped a main sport parachute that sit in a deployment
>>>bag for over 2
>>>years. It worked just fine. Still, I believe that
>>>a good parachute is
>>>worth spending the money and it is worth of having
>>>and flying with it.
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly
>>
>>Eric Greenwell
>>Washington State
>>USA
>>
>
>
>


--
Bruce Greeff
Std Cirrus #57
I'm no-T at the address above.

[[email protected]]

Eric,

Why don't you come by my house and I will show you some canopies
ranging from 10 to 20 years of age that I pulled out of different rigs.
Maybe then you would comprehend some of the issues related to
parachutes. But I kinda doubt it. I am tired of you attacking me and my
position on parachute issues, I did not know that you had such a vast
knowledge about parachutes without being a rigger or at least having a
few jumps behind your belt. Keep in mind that a glider broke apart in
flight near Reno and that was exactly the same type of glider that you
fly and own. So, having said that, think about what is on your back
next time you go fly. But again, I doubt it. Your confidence in your
opinions is amazing. And then again, you fly your German bird that you
paid for a big chunk of money and you have a problem buying a parachute
every 15 years? It is absolutely beyond me. I don't sell parachutes, I
don't have any interest in limiting a life of a canopy especially your
canopy. And I don't even like to pack anymore because of people like
you.

Jacek Kobiesa

[Eric Greenwell]

wrote:
> Eric,
>
> Why don't you come by my house and I will show you some canopies
> ranging from 10 to 20 years of age that I pulled out of different rigs.
> Maybe then you would comprehend some of the issues related to
> parachutes.
> But I kinda doubt it. I am tired of you attacking me and my
> position on parachute issues, I did not know that you had such a vast
> knowledge about parachutes without being a rigger or at least having a
> few jumps behind your belt.

I apologize for it sounding like an attack - I know sometimes I'm too
terse and confrontational, and it comes out badly. What I meant it to be
was a request for more information so I could understand the situation
better, particularly since my parachute is 26 years old. Obviously,
there are some differing opinions on this issue of lifespan, including
those of the manufacturer of my parachute, and I'm trying to sort them out.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA