Questions pondered at 6500 feet

[Jay Honeck]

We enjoyed a 45 knot tailwind all the way to our favorite fly-in restaurant
today (The CAVU Cafe, in Janesville, WI [KJVL]).

This blessing naturally switched to a 45 knot curse on the way home.

Droning along has its advantages. The headwind gave my kids ample time for
a nap, and gave Mary and me plenty of time to ponder the following questions
for the group:

1. Airports were originally huge grass fields that allowed arrivals and
departures in any direction, on any heading. Are there any airports left
that provide 360 degrees of access?

2. We often hear commercial airliners "cleared for the visual approach" into
thus-and-such an airport. However, we *also* often hear commercial
airliners "cleared for the ILS Rwy 14 approach" (for example) -- even though
conditions in the area are perfectly CAVU.

Since we haven't heard the airliner SAY they wanted an instrument approach,
how/why does the controller know to clear them for anything other than the
visual approach?

Inquiring minds, doncha know?

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Rachel]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> 1. Airports were originally huge grass fields that allowed arrivals and
> departures in any direction, on any heading. Are there any airports left
> that provide 360 degrees of access?

There are a few in southern Indiana, I think. I couldn't remember the
names to save my life, but I remember flying over one.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:nZDyf.708499$_o.552810@attbi_s71...
>
> 2. We often hear commercial airliners "cleared for the visual approach"
> into thus-and-such an airport. However, we *also* often hear commercial
> airliners "cleared for the ILS Rwy 14 approach" (for example) -- even
> though conditions in the area are perfectly CAVU.
>
> Since we haven't heard the airliner SAY they wanted an instrument
> approach, how/why does the controller know to clear them for anything
> other than the visual approach?
>
> Inquiring minds, doncha know?
>

Use of an instrument approach simplifies establishing an arrival sequence.

[Jay Honeck]

>> Since we haven't heard the airliner SAY they wanted an instrument
>> approach, how/why does the controller know to clear them for anything
>> other than the visual approach?
>
> Use of an instrument approach simplifies establishing an arrival sequence.

So this choice is entirely up to the controller?

Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the various
approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the commuter airlines we
usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight controllers on-board, with
all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at a moment's notice?)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Newps]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>
> 2. We often hear commercial airliners "cleared for the visual approach" into
> thus-and-such an airport. However, we *also* often hear commercial
> airliners "cleared for the ILS Rwy 14 approach" (for example) -- even though
> conditions in the area are perfectly CAVU.
>
> Since we haven't heard the airliner SAY they wanted an instrument approach,
> how/why does the controller know to clear them for anything other than the
> visual approach?

Practice. You didn't hear the initial contact when the airliner
requested a certain approach. Airline pilots, especially the regionals,
know the places they can get these practice approaches. We do this all
the time.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:DlEyf.701287$x96.296658@attbi_s72...
>
> So this choice is entirely up to the controller?
>

Probably not. Understand that there are many airports where it generally
isn't necessary for the controller to establish an arrival sequence. The
need to do that implies a fair amount of traffic.


>
> Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the
> various approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the commuter
> airlines we usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight controllers
> on-board, with all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at a
> moment's notice?)
>

Where's the pain? The approach in use will be on the ATIS, crews generally
have that information before they ever talk to approach control. And it is
a crew, it ain't one guy thumbing through a Jepp binder while trying to
hand-fly the airplane.

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the various
> approach plates, etc., at hand.

That's why all the pilots headed for the pointy end of that Delta or Continental
are carrying those big black cases.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Bob Noel]

In article <DlEyf.701287$x96.296658@attbi_s72>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the various
> approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the commuter airlines we
> usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight controllers on-board, with
> all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at a moment's notice?)

actuallly, a lot of the commuter and RJ's have newer stuff than the larger
aircraft

--
Bob Noel
goodness - the NFL officials are making
the NHL officials look like geniuses

[Jim Macklin]

It isn't any problem for a professional crew to fly any
approach at the airports they use. Scheduled airlines may
use only a few dozen airports and have only a few dozen more
available airports that they can use in an emergency. Plus
they must be route qualified. The charts are organized and
it only takes a few moments to select and tune for a
different approach.

It is recommended that when flying to a destination, all the
available approach plates for the destination and the
alternate be located and placed on the clipboard.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Bob Noel" > wrote in
message
...
| In article <DlEyf.701287$x96.296658@attbi_s72>,
| "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
|
| > Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to
keep all the various
| > approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the
commuter airlines we
| > usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight
controllers on-board, with
| > all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at
a moment's notice?)
|
| actuallly, a lot of the commuter and RJ's have newer stuff
than the larger
| aircraft
|
| --
| Bob Noel
| goodness - the NFL officials are making
| the NHL officials look like geniuses
|

[Scott D]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:58:27 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>
>Inquiring minds, doncha know?

To expand on what other have said, When we are coming in on an IFR
flight, if we don't advise that the airport is in sight, then they
will clear us for XYZ approach. At the moment that we advise that the
field is in sight, then they clear us for the visual. It just ensures
the controller that we can find the field.


Scott D.

Scott D.

[Brien K. Meehan]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> 1. Airports were originally huge grass fields that allowed arrivals and
> departures in any direction, on any heading. Are there any airports left
> that provide 360 degrees of access?

I picked up a friend at Grosse Ile (ONZ) the other day. It's at the
southern end of an island (obviously?) where the Detroit River empties
into Lake Erie. Oh, here's a link:

http://www.grosseileairport.com/

That big circle in the middle is a PAVED 3000ft circular landing area.
It's also obvious that this airport was also a seaplane port.

No, it's no longer usable, but it's a cool bit of local history that
you can look at when you're in the pattern.

[A Guy Called Tyketto]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Steven P. McNicoll > wrote:
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:DlEyf.701287$x96.296658@attbi_s72...
>>
>> So this choice is entirely up to the controller?
>>
>
> Probably not. Understand that there are many airports where it generally
> isn't necessary for the controller to establish an arrival sequence. The
> need to do that implies a fair amount of traffic.
>
>
>>
>> Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the
>> various approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the commuter
>> airlines we usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight controllers
>> on-board, with all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at a
>> moment's notice?)
>>
>
> Where's the pain? The approach in use will be on the ATIS, crews generally
> have that information before they ever talk to approach control. And it is
> a crew, it ain't one guy thumbing through a Jepp binder while trying to
> hand-fly the airplane.

While I agree, I also disagree.

Take LAS for instance. very few times out of the year is the
ceiling and visibility warranting of an ILS approach. Most of the time
they're under CAVU. ATIS almost always shows that visual approaches are
in use. However, as most commercial arrivals are on 25L, that tends to
be a problem in the evenings when the sun blinds the pilot and they
either can't see the field, or can't see the traffic in front of them.
So from there, controllers give the ILS approach.

Granted it's situational, and doesn't help or hinder
sequencing, but there you have it.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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[Cub Driver]

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:03:05 -0600, Rachel > wrote:

>There are a few in southern Indiana, I think. I couldn't remember the
>names to save my life, but I remember flying over one.

Do they have a windsock in the center?

-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>>Since we haven't heard the airliner SAY they wanted an instrument
>>>approach, how/why does the controller know to clear them for anything
>>>other than the visual approach?
>>
>>Use of an instrument approach simplifies establishing an arrival sequence.
>
>
> So this choice is entirely up to the controller?
>
> Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the various
> approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the commuter airlines we
> usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight controllers on-board, with
> all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at a moment's notice?)

You can request a visual approach, or a contact approach or a different
published approach if you wish.

Matt

[Viperdoc]

Jay:

Have you been to the restaurants at Madison or Lone Rock? The food is
arguably better than Janesville. (Still a lot of greasy fried stuff)

JN

[William Snow]

Jay

It sounds to me that the pilot has filedIFR to the destination airport, and
somewhere enroute has asked for or accepted the instrument approach when the
alternative was offer up by ATC.

Bill Snow

ps; We missed IOW on the way to DEN. We'll have to catch you next time.

[Dave Stadt]

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
> Jay:
>
> Have you been to the restaurants at Madison or Lone Rock? The food is
> arguably better than Janesville. (Still a lot of greasy fried stuff)
>
> JN

Also Watertown, Reedsburg, Palmyria, Prairie du Chien, Lake Lawn, Grand
Geneva, American club at Sheboygan, Baraboo and several others.

[Stubby]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> 1. Airports were originally huge grass fields that allowed arrivals and
> departures in any direction, on any heading. Are there any airports left
> that provide 360 degrees of access?

I believe Lakehurst, NJ still has the circular field where the
Hindenburg disaster happened. I used to see it out the right side of
scheduled airliners on the way from DCA to BOS just before going over NYC.

The question I have about this installation is what are the converging
sets of lines around it. IIRC there are 3 sets of 4 lines pointing
into the center of the circle.

[Jay Honeck]

> That big circle in the middle is a PAVED 3000ft circular landing area.
> It's also obvious that this airport was also a seaplane port.

Wow -- they PAVED all that? That's amazing.

I'd never heard of such a thing -- thanks, Brien!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Have you been to the restaurants at Madison or Lone Rock? The food is
> arguably better than Janesville. (Still a lot of greasy fried stuff)

Sure! We go to Lone Rock at least once a month.

I haven't been to Madison in over ten years. The restaurant was pretty lame
when I was there, last -- I take it they've improved?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> ps; We missed IOW on the way to DEN. We'll have to catch you next time.

I was *wondering* if you were still coming?

Oh well -- swing by in the summer. It's prettier anyway...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

Here in Jackson Hole Wy I thought the same thing. We have several
majors that fly into here and on those 100 miles+ visibility days they
could fly a visual. So I asked some captains the same question. There
answer was all the same ... Their airlines require them not to pick us
a visual and stay in the "system" for safety reasons. Seems kinda silly
since we have a very competent tower here.

[Wiz]

Brien - I think the big circle on Grosse Ile airport was for blimp
landing. Grosse Ile was a Navy reserve seaplane base in the '20's, but
changed to a Naval Air Station during WWII, protecting the tank plants
in Detroit. To facilitate its mission, it had a blimp hangar.

It was kind of cool when I was a kid, because the Goodyear blimp used
to land there and was hangared there while in the area to cover events
in Detroit like the Hudson's Department Store Thanksgiving Parade or
the Garwood Trophy hydroplane race. The blimp hangar was eventually
torn down. Here's a photo: http://nasgi.org/n17.htm.

The seaplane hangar burned down when I was a kid ('68 I think.) The
base closed in '69 and became a municipal airport.

Wiz


Brien K. Meehan wrote:
> Jay Honeck wrote:
> > 1. Airports were originally huge grass fields that allowed arrivals and
> > departures in any direction, on any heading. Are there any airports left
> > that provide 360 degrees of access?
>
> I picked up a friend at Grosse Ile (ONZ) the other day. It's at the
> southern end of an island (obviously?) where the Detroit River empties
> into Lake Erie. Oh, here's a link:
>
> http://www.grosseileairport.com/
>
> That big circle in the middle is a PAVED 3000ft circular landing area.
> It's also obvious that this airport was also a seaplane port.
>
> No, it's no longer usable, but it's a cool bit of local history that
> you can look at when you're in the pattern.

[Brien K. Meehan]

Yes, the circular area was used for blimp operations after the straight
runways were built and the circle was closed to airplane traffic.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>Here in Jackson Hole Wy I thought the same thing. We have several
> majors that fly into here and on those 100 miles+ visibility days they
> could fly a visual. So I asked some captains the same question. There
> answer was all the same ... Their airlines require them not to pick us
> a visual and stay in the "system" for safety reasons. Seems kinda silly
> since we have a very competent tower here.
>

What "system" is it that they leave by selecting a visual approach but
remain in if they select a SIAP?

[Montblack]

("Dave Stadt" wrote)
> Also Watertown, Reedsburg, Palmyria, Prairie du Chien, Lake Lawn, Grand
> Geneva, American club at Sheboygan, Baraboo and several others.


At Prairie du Chien, Jay radioed the FBO to have the Casino (buffet) van
pick us up. Is there another restaurant near the airport?

Nice smooth air, beautiful day, a train below us, river frozen over, State
Park on the bluffs - all very scenic. Very, very, very scenic was one
pilot's estimation of the the area's beauty. <g>


Montblack

[Newps]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>>Since we haven't heard the airliner SAY they wanted an instrument
>>>approach, how/why does the controller know to clear them for anything
>>>other than the visual approach?
>>
>>Use of an instrument approach simplifies establishing an arrival sequence.
>
>
> So this choice is entirely up to the controller?
>
> Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the various
> approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the commuter airlines we
> usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight controllers on-board, with
> all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at a moment's notice?)

The airlines have the plates for the airports that that particular type
of aircraft will fly into. For example we have Northwest fly here into
Billings. We get DC9's and Airbuses. NWA 747 pilots do not carry
approach plate for BIL. When the normal NWA flights show up they will
always fly the localizer and glide slope, they are required to if it is
available. Doesn't mean they fly the ILS it just means they must follow
those navaids.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Stubby" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> I believe Lakehurst, NJ still has the circular field where the Hindenburg
> disaster happened. I used to see it out the right side of scheduled
> airliners on the way from DCA to BOS just before going over NYC.
>
> The question I have about this installation is what are the converging
> sets of lines around it. IIRC there are 3 sets of 4 lines pointing into
> the center of the circle.
>

Are you referring to the large circular area to the west of the current
runways? I don't believe that's where the Hindenburg disaster happened.
That part of the installation was constructed well after the Hindenburg
disaster. The big dirigible hangar, the blimp mooring circles, and the old
runways were all located further east.

[Nathan Young]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 05:32:41 -0500, Cub Driver <usenet AT danford DOT
net> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:03:05 -0600, Rachel > wrote:
>
>>There are a few in southern Indiana, I think. I couldn't remember the
>>names to save my life, but I remember flying over one.
>
>Do they have a windsock in the center?

I would hope the windsock is on the side or corner!

[Nathan Young]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:32:21 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> Have you been to the restaurants at Madison or Lone Rock? The food is
>> arguably better than Janesville. (Still a lot of greasy fried stuff)
>
>Sure! We go to Lone Rock at least once a month.
>
>I haven't been to Madison in over ten years. The restaurant was pretty lame
>when I was there, last -- I take it they've improved?

They rebuilt the FBO a few years ago and added space for a restaurant.
It is better than most on-field restaurants.

[Flyingmonk]

>I would hope the windsock is on the side or corner!

Which corner of the circle Nathan? :^)

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Nathan Young" > wrote in message
...
>
> I would hope the windsock is on the side or corner!
>

A circle with corners?

[John Gaquin]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>
> Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the
> various approach plates, etc., at hand.

My bag weighed 42 lbs.

[Dylan Smith]

On 2006-01-16, Steven P. McNicoll > wrote:
> Where's the pain? The approach in use will be on the ATIS, crews generally
> have that information before they ever talk to approach control. And it is
> a crew, it ain't one guy thumbing through a Jepp binder while trying to
> hand-fly the airplane.

I also bet most of the crew know their regular approaches well, and
probably only pull out the plate to satisfy the airline's procedure.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

[Peter R.]

Jay Honeck > wrote:

> 2. We often hear commercial airliners "cleared for the visual approach" into
> thus-and-such an airport. However, we *also* often hear commercial
> airliners "cleared for the ILS Rwy 14 approach" (for example) -- even though
> conditions in the area are perfectly CAVU.

Jay, many times when flying back to my home airport I will request the
visual and still be vectored for the ILS and told to intercept the
localizer.

I had always assumed that this was done by the controller for sequencing
into the airport.

Also, in my experience when flying into Teterboro, all aircraft are given
a VOR-A approach (circling VOR approach) in visual conditions by the
approach facility, but after getting closer and calling the airport in
sight, are then cleared for a visual approach. Again, my understanding is
that this is done to facilitate arrival sequencing.

--
Peter

[Darkwing]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>
>>Here in Jackson Hole Wy I thought the same thing. We have several
>> majors that fly into here and on those 100 miles+ visibility days they
>> could fly a visual. So I asked some captains the same question. There
>> answer was all the same ... Their airlines require them not to pick us
>> a visual and stay in the "system" for safety reasons. Seems kinda silly
>> since we have a very competent tower here.
>>
>
> What "system" is it that they leave by selecting a visual approach but
> remain in if they select a SIAP?
>

They probably do it for liability reasons so they can't be sued in an
accident for deviating from an FAA approved approach, lawyer BS, blah, blah.

-----------------------------------------
DW

[Newps]

You're confusing a visual approach with VFR. The airlines do fly visual
approaches into JAC, they just don't fly VFR.



wrote:

> Here in Jackson Hole Wy I thought the same thing. We have several
> majors that fly into here and on those 100 miles+ visibility days they
> could fly a visual. So I asked some captains the same question. There
> answer was all the same ... Their airlines require them not to pick us
> a visual and stay in the "system" for safety reasons. Seems kinda silly
> since we have a very competent tower here.
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Darkwing" <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote in message
...
>
> They probably do it for liability reasons so they can't be sued in an
> accident for deviating from an FAA approved approach, lawyer BS, blah,
> blah.
>

That would seem to favor the visual approach.

[Stubby]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "Stubby" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>I believe Lakehurst, NJ still has the circular field where the Hindenburg
>>disaster happened. I used to see it out the right side of scheduled
>>airliners on the way from DCA to BOS just before going over NYC.
>>
>>The question I have about this installation is what are the converging
>>sets of lines around it. IIRC there are 3 sets of 4 lines pointing into
>>the center of the circle.
>>
>
>
> Are you referring to the large circular area to the west of the current
> runways? I don't believe that's where the Hindenburg disaster happened.
> That part of the installation was constructed well after the Hindenburg
> disaster. The big dirigible hangar, the blimp mooring circles, and the old
> runways were all located further east.
>
>
Maybe. It has been a few years since I last saw it. If it's not an
airship landing field, what is the large circular area?

[RST Engineering]

Yep. A boxing ring.

Jim




"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
nk.net...


>
> A circle with corners?
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Stubby" > wrote in message
...
>
> Maybe. It has been a few years since I last saw it. If it's not an
> airship landing field, what is the large circular area?
>

I don't know what it's for, but I'm pretty sure it's not for airships.
Airship mooring facilities were typically just a circular track for the
landing gear around the central mooring mast. There just wasn't any need to
pave the whole circle.

Lakehurst was an airship/blimp base from 1921 to 1961, when the Navy got out
of the blimp business. In 1957 the Naval Air Test Facility moved there to
test catapult and arresting gear. In 1974 the Naval Air Engineering Center
moved there and later consolidated with the NATF. I assume the large circle
is or was part of the stations R&D function. Below is a link to 1997 aerial
photograph showing Lakehurst NAS. The present airfield is clearly visible
in the center of the photograph, the large circle you refer to is just west
of it and other test facilities of some kind are just west of the circle.
The old airfield is about a mile and a half ESE of the new one. It doesn't
stand out too well in the photo, but if you click on the "Topo Map" tab in
the upper right corner you can locate it easily.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q15121A7C

I'll also post an older aerial photo in alt.binaries.pictures.aviation that
clearly shows the older portion of the station. The large airship mooring
circles are clearly visible as well as the smaller blimp mooring circles.
There's a blimp visible on one of them and another visible entering or
leaving the large airship hangar at the top of the photo. The photo isn't
dated, but there appears to be a strip with arresting gear at the bottom of
the photo. Since arresting gear work began in 1957 and blimp operations
ceased in 1961 the photo appears to be from the late fifties. The photo is
looking east, it's from M.L. Shettle's book "United States Naval Air
Stations of World War II".

[Montblack]

("RST Engineering" wrote)
> Yep. A boxing ring.


Welcome to the Gillette Friday Night ...Flights.


Montblack

[Dave Stadt]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:V7Oyf.702157$x96.414904@attbi_s72...
>> Have you been to the restaurants at Madison or Lone Rock? The food is
>> arguably better than Janesville. (Still a lot of greasy fried stuff)
>
> Sure! We go to Lone Rock at least once a month.
>
> I haven't been to Madison in over ten years. The restaurant was pretty
> lame when I was there, last -- I take it they've improved?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Now it is pretty much knock your socks of for an airport restaurant. It's
on the east side (don't know where the old one was) and you can park right
out side and watch Atlas as you eat.

[Dave Stadt]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Dave Stadt" wrote)
>> Also Watertown, Reedsburg, Palmyria, Prairie du Chien, Lake Lawn, Grand
>> Geneva, American club at Sheboygan, Baraboo and several others.
>
>
> At Prairie du Chien, Jay radioed the FBO to have the Casino (buffet) van
> pick us up. Is there another restaurant near the airport?
>
> Nice smooth air, beautiful day, a train below us, river frozen over, State
> Park on the bluffs - all very scenic. Very, very, very scenic was one
> pilot's estimation of the the area's beauty. <g>
>
>
> Montblack

Yes, a good old Wisconsin family restaurant just north of the airport. It
isn't much of a walk but the guy in the FBO loaned us his Caddy last time we
were there. You also get your picture taken and stuck on the wall.

[Jay Honeck]

> At Prairie du Chien, Jay radioed the FBO to have the Casino (buffet) van
> pick us up. Is there another restaurant near the airport?

Sure. "The Angus" restaurant is a fine steak house located right
across the street from the airport. There is also a Chinese restaurant
within walking distance, and a decent "breakfast-all-day" place down
the road a piece.

Next time you visit, maybe we'll be able to do the Angus for dinner.
(Once it starts staying light until 8 PM-ish, that flight is a lot more
doable for us.) They don't open till supper time.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Now it is pretty much knock your socks of for an airport restaurant. It's
> on the east side (don't know where the old one was) and you can park right
> out side and watch Atlas as you eat.

Madison, eh? Mary has already told me that we're going there next
Sunday for brunch, weather permitting.

How late are they open on Sundays, Dave?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Flyingmonk]

Questions never pondered at 6500 feet:

Did I leave the stove on? :^)

The Monk
I fly to escape my mind.

[Viperdoc]

They have somewhat limited hours- I think they close at or before 2pm.
However, the windows overlook the ramp, and the food is a lot better than
JVL. I was unaware that Palmira (?SP) had anything nearby, but it is too
short for me to land anyway.

Actually, Iron Mountain has a great Mexican restaurant (The Ruptured Duck,
or something similar sounding) that overlooks a scenic lake. It is at least
as good as the restaurant near Jay's place in Iowa City.

[George]

1. What is the lowest pubic airport in the USA? Cochran (TRM) is -114ft, is
there any lower?

2. What is the highest and lowest public airport int the world?

3. If I bought a CUB with floats from American Legend Aircraft Company how would
I get it home in Oklahoma (4O6)?

George
If you request flight following, can you really "slip the surly bonds of earth"?

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:58:27 GMT, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

>We enjoyed a 45 knot tailwind all the way to our favorite fly-in restaurant
>today (The CAVU Cafe, in Janesville, WI [KJVL]).
>
>This blessing naturally switched to a 45 knot curse on the way home.
>
>Droning along has its advantages. The headwind gave my kids ample time for
>a nap, and gave Mary and me plenty of time to ponder the following questions
>for the group:
>
>1. Airports were originally huge grass fields that allowed arrivals and
>departures in any direction, on any heading. Are there any airports left
>that provide 360 degrees of access?
>
>2. We often hear commercial airliners "cleared for the visual approach" into
>thus-and-such an airport. However, we *also* often hear commercial
>airliners "cleared for the ILS Rwy 14 approach" (for example) -- even though
>conditions in the area are perfectly CAVU.
>
>Since we haven't heard the airliner SAY they wanted an instrument approach,
>how/why does the controller know to clear them for anything other than the
>visual approach?
>
>Inquiring minds, doncha know?
>
>:-)

[Jay Honeck]

> JVL. I was unaware that Palmira (?SP) had anything nearby, but it is too
> short for me to land anyway.

Palmyra!? Man, in '95-'96 we used to land there (on the grass) a couple
of times per month, back when we lived in Racine. We'd hike through a bean
field to get to the absolute GREASIEST spoon diner you've EVER seen.

The food was awful, the waitresses were ugly, the prices were cheap, and the
hangar flying was terrific. If that place is still in business, check it
out -- it's great fun!

I don't remember it being all that short. 'Course, at the time I was flying
out of C89 (Sylvania), so *nothing* seemed short....

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Marc J. Zeitlin]

George wrote:

> 1. What is the lowest pubic airport in the USA? Cochran
> (TRM) is -114ft, is there any lower?

Furnace Creek - (L06). -210 ft. Landed there a few weeks ago. Pretty
interesting place.

> 2. What is the highest and lowest public airport int the world?

Highest is Bangdag Airport in Tibet at 14,100 ft. Lowest is Furnace
Creek, AFAICT - there doesn't seem to be an airport near the Dead Sea.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2006

[Flyingmonk]

George wrote:
>1. What is the lowest pubic airport in the USA?

I'd have to say George's mind is not on aviation today. :^)

The Monk

[George Patterson]

George wrote:

> 1. What is the lowest pubic airport in the USA?

Well, Jim posted a link to one with a whorehouse at the end of the runway. It
looked pretty low to me. :-)

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Montblack]

("Marc J. Zeitlin" wrote)
> Highest is Bangdag Airport in Tibet at 14,100 ft. Lowest is Furnace
> Creek, AFAICT - there doesn't seem to be an airport near the Dead Sea.


Wonder what a local (Dead Sea) purpose built float plane would look like?
Maybe like a Cub on skis. <g>


Montblack

[Darkwing]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Darkwing" <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> They probably do it for liability reasons so they can't be sued in an
>> accident for deviating from an FAA approved approach, lawyer BS, blah,
>> blah.
>>
>
> That would seem to favor the visual approach.
>

Not for some scumbag lawyer who will say that the approved IFR approach was
designed for minimum interference from towers and ground obstructions and on
and on.

------------------------------------------
DW

[George]

This spring we are planning a trip to Riverside, CA (KPWA-KRIR) to visit
relatives. I was thinking about shooting a touch&go at Thermal, just to see the
altimeter go negative. I thought about go to Furnace Creek for brunch at the
Furnace Creek Inn, but me and mountains don't get along to well.

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 06:48:52 GMT, "Marc J. Zeitlin" >
wrote:

>> 1. What is the lowest pubic airport in the USA? Cochran
>> (TRM) is -114ft, is there any lower?

>Furnace Creek - (L06). -210 ft. Landed there a few weeks ago. Pretty
>interesting place.

>> 2. What is the highest and lowest public airport int the world?

>Highest is Bangdag Airport in Tibet at 14,100 ft. Lowest is Furnace
>Creek, AFAICT - there doesn't seem to be an airport near the Dead Sea.

George
If you request flight following, can you really "slip the surly bonds of earth"?

[George]

Hey Monk, I flow today. You can't get to me. :-D

On 16 Jan 2006 23:03:13 -0800, "Flyingmonk" > wrote:


>I'd have to say George's mind is not on aviation today. :^)

>The Monk

George
If you request flight following, can you really "slip the surly bonds of earth"?

[George]

You guys surprised me. I thought for sure I would get some comments about a
seaplane in Oklahoma. Oh well. Did I tell you I flow today?

George

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:07:02 -0600, George > wrote:


>3. If I bought a CUB with floats from American Legend Aircraft Company how would
>I get it home in Oklahoma (4O6)?

George
If you request flight following, can you really "slip the surly bonds of earth"?