Lowrance GPS

[Casey Wilson]

Hello all,

I put away a few pennies here and there and now its time to invest in a
good GPS receiver. I've decided that the Lowrance will give me all I need.
And maybe more since I won't be doing any IFR. (Yes, I know it isn't IFR
rated anyway. The point is I won't need it for IFR backup, etc..)

Q1 -- Why should I buy the color system over the B&W?

Q2 -- Can either the 1000 or 2000c be loaded with the land database and used
to navigate on the ground?

Q3 -- Anybody ever time out a set of fresh alkaline batteries?
How long did they last?
Same question(s) for NiMH, please

Q4 -- Any druthers on a different brand?

Go Fly!

Casey

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

A1 -- I bought the B&W because I was able to get the brand new one for
$399. Don't have much use for the color really. The only positive
that I can think of is that I hear rumors that the 2000C will be able
to get the realtime weather upgrade in the future and the 1000 will
not.

A2-- Both can. It comes with a program called Map Create. You just
compile the map and put it on the SD Card in the unit. You will need
a MUCH bigger chip than the dinky one that come with the unit. I got
a 1G SD chip and it holds what I need.

A3-- Have not timed it out, but I know that I put a set of Alkaline
batteries in my unit and used them for about 2 hours and the unit
indicated under 1/2 power left. HAve not used NiCAD in the unit.

A4 -- I Can not answer this one.

>Q1 -- Why should I buy the color system over the B&W?
>
>Q2 -- Can either the 1000 or 2000c be loaded with the land database and used
>to navigate on the ground?
>
>Q3 -- Anybody ever time out a set of fresh alkaline batteries?
> How long did they last?
> Same question(s) for NiMH, please
>
>Q4 -- Any druthers on a different brand?
>
>Go Fly!
>
>Casey
>


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Dave]

Interspersed comments below.....
>
>Q1 -- Why should I buy the color system over the B&W?
Brighter, easier to read screen, in all light conditions, with a
wider angle of viewing...pilot can read it on co-pilots yoke..
>
>Q2 -- Can either the 1000 or 2000c be loaded with the land database and used
>to navigate on the ground?

Yes, it is included, unless you want the Canadian data, it's extra..
:(
>
>Q3 -- Anybody ever time out a set of fresh alkaline batteries?

Yup!
> How long did they last?

3 hrs for colour, 4 hrs B&W

> Same question(s) for NiMH, please

dono, never used them

>
>Q4 -- Any druthers on a different brand?

Once you get out of the "Garmin, Garmin, Garmin' mind set, the 2000
wins hands down, IMHO

We had the B&W for a year, got the colour 5 mos ago.

On a Warrior's yoke, we have yet to plug in the remote antenna.
Waiting for the terrain 1GB card, (end of Jan), and will be loading
the Canadian database then as well. Lowrance support in Canada has
been the very best.. Unit is easy to learn and use.

We like it very much, has exceeded our expectations....

And NO FREAKING MAGNETS in the antenna with instructions to mount it
on the cowl!! (beside the compass) !!

WHAT was Garmin thinking??

Glad we made the choice we did..

YMMV

Cheers!

Dave

>
>Go Fly!
>
>Casey
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Q1 -- Why should I buy the color system over the B&W?

We went from the Airmap 300 to the 2000c.

Color makes a world of difference. You can simply display much more (and
more easily interpreted at a glance) information with color than you can
with grayscale.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[skym]

Bought the 1000 about 6 months ago for $250 by using my 300 trade in.
The 2000 was $300 more. I have wondered if I should have gotten the
2000, but I am perfectly happy with the 1000. It is a very nice unit.
Actually I think the bw may be easier to read. From the pictures I've
seen it appears less cluttered. YMMV

[Thomas Borchert]

Casey,

> Q1 -- Why should I buy the color system over the B&W?

Many people feel that the different colors add to clarity and decluttering of
the image. If the plane(s) you normally fly have a color GPS (e.g. Garmin 430)
anyway, I would say you can do withou color. If the Lowrance is going to be
your only moving map, I'd prefer color.

>
> Q2 -- Can either the 1000 or 2000c be loaded with the land database and used
> to navigate on the ground?

Absolutely. In fact, you can generate land maps for the US of areas that are of
interest to you with the MapCreate software that's included on your PC. You
then transfer those files to an SD card and put that into the Airmap. If you
load a Jepp update onto that same SD card, both will be displayed together. In
that case, you can finely tune what should be displayed and what not. Or you
simply switch SD cards once you want to navigate on the ground. It all happens
on SD card, and both the card reader and detailed customizable road maps for
the US are included with the unit.

>
> Q3 -- Anybody ever time out a set of fresh alkaline batteries?
> How long did they last?

What they say on the site is accurate. The 1000 will last several hours,
depending on how much you use back lighting.

The 2000c will last 1 to 2 hours, so you'll want external power.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Casey,

Oh, one more thing: The color variant comes with terrain, if you want
that.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Barney Rubble]

Just FYI, the 1000 is great for basic VFR. I just sold mine to get a Garmin
196, as the 196 includes published approaches from the FAF (no VNAV). The
1000 has waypoints only. I know you cannot legally fly an approach with the
196, but if it all goes dark, then this could be a real help. I liked the
fact that the 1000 could take standard memory cards, I hate Garmin for the
way they rip you a new one for their proprietary memory.

- Barney
"Casey Wilson" <N2310D @ gmail.com> wrote in message
news:spgzf.13264$Zo.7881@trnddc07...
> Hello all,
>
> I put away a few pennies here and there and now its time to invest in a
> good GPS receiver. I've decided that the Lowrance will give me all I need.
> And maybe more since I won't be doing any IFR. (Yes, I know it isn't IFR
> rated anyway. The point is I won't need it for IFR backup, etc..)
>
> Q1 -- Why should I buy the color system over the B&W?
>
> Q2 -- Can either the 1000 or 2000c be loaded with the land database and
> used to navigate on the ground?
>
> Q3 -- Anybody ever time out a set of fresh alkaline batteries?
> How long did they last?
> Same question(s) for NiMH, please
>
> Q4 -- Any druthers on a different brand?
>
> Go Fly!
>
> Casey
>

[Doug]

Color displays eat up batteries. I you power it off the airplane, thats
not an issue. I have a Garmin 195 which is Black and White and it has
served me well. If you fly a lot, batteries are a hassle. I would try
and get a solution that doesnt mean batteries, if possible. If that is
not possible, I'd get a Black and White unit. They do the job, and you
are waaaay better off with a B&W working unit than a color that has run
out of power and is now shut down.

[Ron Lee]

"Doug" > wrote:

>Color displays eat up batteries. I you power it off the airplane, thats
>not an issue. I have a Garmin 195 which is Black and White and it has
>served me well. If you fly a lot, batteries are a hassle. I would try
>and get a solution that doesnt mean batteries, if possible. If that is
>not possible, I'd get a Black and White unit. They do the job, and you
>are waaaay better off with a B&W working unit than a color that has run
>out of power and is now shut down.
>
How long does it run on a set of batteries? With Rechargeable NiMH
batteries affordable this may not be that big of an issue.

Ron Lee

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
Dave > wrote:
> We like it very much, has exceeded our expectations....
>
> And NO FREAKING MAGNETS in the antenna with instructions to mount it
> on the cowl!! (beside the compass) !!
>
> WHAT was Garmin thinking??


Garmin's antennas do not contain magnets. The issue with magnets and
the Garmin 396 has to do with the XM receiver. As far as I know,
Lowrance doesn't have XM capability.



JKG

[Jay Honeck]

> Garmin's antennas do not contain magnets. The issue with magnets and
> the Garmin 396 has to do with the XM receiver. As far as I know,
> Lowrance doesn't have XM capability.

Yet.

Rumor mill says: Lowrance is going to roll out XM weather for the 2000c at
Sun N Fun...

Lowrance is not known for meeting deadlines.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dave]

Ummm.. but when you want to use the XM Rx, they DO have magnets, and
they want to install them in a light aircraft, and they affect the
compass, and , and, and, .....

On some other pilots groups, there is much discussion and disgust...

It's a hot topic, and costing Garmin reputation..

The magnets are very difficult to remove, and removal (they have made
it very clear) will void the warranty, do not admit it is a problem or
concern, and (apparently so far) have no intention of correcting it..

(according to Garmin replies pasted in the NG's)

And the XM is expected soon for the Lowrance...

I do not own anAviation Garmin, what I relate here is from others who
do, and thet appear quite dissappointed..

Dave


On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:30:34 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Dave > wrote:
>> We like it very much, has exceeded our expectations....
>>
>> And NO FREAKING MAGNETS in the antenna with instructions to mount it
>> on the cowl!! (beside the compass) !!
>>
>> WHAT was Garmin thinking??
>
>
>Garmin's antennas do not contain magnets. The issue with magnets and
>the Garmin 396 has to do with the XM receiver. As far as I know,
>Lowrance doesn't have XM capability.
>
>
>
>JKG

[Lakeview Bill]

In what group is this conversation going on?


"Dave" > wrote in message
...
> Ummm.. but when you want to use the XM Rx, they DO have magnets, and
> they want to install them in a light aircraft, and they affect the
> compass, and , and, and, .....
>
> On some other pilots groups, there is much discussion and disgust...
>
> It's a hot topic, and costing Garmin reputation..
>
> The magnets are very difficult to remove, and removal (they have made
> it very clear) will void the warranty, do not admit it is a problem or
> concern, and (apparently so far) have no intention of correcting it..
>
> (according to Garmin replies pasted in the NG's)
>
> And the XM is expected soon for the Lowrance...
>
> I do not own anAviation Garmin, what I relate here is from others who
> do, and thet appear quite dissappointed..
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:30:34 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Dave > wrote:
> >> We like it very much, has exceeded our expectations....
> >>
> >> And NO FREAKING MAGNETS in the antenna with instructions to mount it
> >> on the cowl!! (beside the compass) !!
> >>
> >> WHAT was Garmin thinking??
> >
> >
> >Garmin's antennas do not contain magnets. The issue with magnets and
> >the Garmin 396 has to do with the XM receiver. As far as I know,
> >Lowrance doesn't have XM capability.
> >
> >
> >
> >JKG
>

[Dave]

CPA.. Cherokee Pilots Association.. prolly in the archives now...

And one I heard of in one of the Cessna groups/chats, and two
threads here and in Rec.aviation.owning. (I think)

Been a while... :(

Dave


On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 23:54:43 GMT, "Lakeview Bill"
> wrote:

>In what group is this conversation going on?
>
>
>"Dave" > wrote in message
...
>> Ummm.. but when you want to use the XM Rx, they DO have magnets, and
>> they want to install them in a light aircraft, and they affect the
>> compass, and , and, and, .....
>>
>> On some other pilots groups, there is much discussion and disgust...
>>
>> It's a hot topic, and costing Garmin reputation..
>>
>> The magnets are very difficult to remove, and removal (they have made
>> it very clear) will void the warranty, do not admit it is a problem or
>> concern, and (apparently so far) have no intention of correcting it..
>>
>> (according to Garmin replies pasted in the NG's)
>>
>> And the XM is expected soon for the Lowrance...
>>
>> I do not own anAviation Garmin, what I relate here is from others who
>> do, and thet appear quite dissappointed..
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:30:34 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >In article >,
>> > Dave > wrote:
>> >> We like it very much, has exceeded our expectations....
>> >>
>> >> And NO FREAKING MAGNETS in the antenna with instructions to mount it
>> >> on the cowl!! (beside the compass) !!
>> >>
>> >> WHAT was Garmin thinking??
>> >
>> >
>> >Garmin's antennas do not contain magnets. The issue with magnets and
>> >the Garmin 396 has to do with the XM receiver. As far as I know,
>> >Lowrance doesn't have XM capability.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >JKG
>>
>

[Jonathan Goodish]

The magnets aren't a big deal--really. Garmin provides a total of 11
feet of cable to run the XM receiver well away from the compass if the
magnets bother you. The folks who find the magnets absolutely
unacceptable appear to be a very small minority of consumers.

My point, though, was that Garmin does NOT use magnets in their GPS
antennas, and Lowrance does NOT have XM capability. Personally, I'm
willing to live with the magnets (though I agree their presence is
puzzling) to get a capability that Lowrance cannot deliver. Who's to
say that Lowrance won't have magnets in their XM unit, if they ever
bring one to market?



JKG


In article >,
Dave > wrote:
> Ummm.. but when you want to use the XM Rx, they DO have magnets, and
> they want to install them in a light aircraft, and they affect the
> compass, and , and, and, .....
>
> On some other pilots groups, there is much discussion and disgust...
>
> It's a hot topic, and costing Garmin reputation..
>
> The magnets are very difficult to remove, and removal (they have made
> it very clear) will void the warranty, do not admit it is a problem or
> concern, and (apparently so far) have no intention of correcting it..
>
> (according to Garmin replies pasted in the NG's)
>
> And the XM is expected soon for the Lowrance...
>
> I do not own anAviation Garmin, what I relate here is from others who
> do, and thet appear quite dissappointed..
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:30:34 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Dave > wrote:
> >> We like it very much, has exceeded our expectations....
> >>
> >> And NO FREAKING MAGNETS in the antenna with instructions to mount it
> >> on the cowl!! (beside the compass) !!
> >>
> >> WHAT was Garmin thinking??
> >
> >
> >Garmin's antennas do not contain magnets. The issue with magnets and
> >the Garmin 396 has to do with the XM receiver. As far as I know,
> >Lowrance doesn't have XM capability.
> >
> >
> >
> >JKG

[karl gruber]

The Garmin 296 and 396 use a big lithium battery. They both will go 8
hours on GPS only. When you plug in the XM on the 396 the life goes to
4 hours. I usually just plug the XM in when I need a weather update. I
also carry a spare battery and can also use ships power.

Garmin leads the way in GPS and the other manufacturers are just
playing catch up. There is no comparison, the 396 is the cutting edge
and has the best form factor and user interface.

Karl
"Curator" N185KG

[Dave]

Yes..all good points...

But certianly a flub on their part, and the 11 ft of cable is not
necessarily convenient.



On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 21:33:30 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
> wrote:

>The magnets aren't a big deal--really. Garmin provides a total of 11
>feet of cable to run the XM receiver well away from the compass if the
>magnets bother you.

The cowl just seems to be the fav place for most ofus, remember many
users of the portable units are renters, and do not have the luxury of
"installing 11 ft of cable" to get around this issue.

>The folks who find the magnets absolutely
>unacceptable appear to be a very small minority of consumers.

Possibly, but seems to be a significant %age of the few who use the XM
option.. but I have no data on this, or ever will have..
>
>My point, though, was that Garmin does NOT use magnets in their GPS
>antennas,

Correct

>and Lowrance does NOT have XM capability.

Yet,...... lately, the DO have a habit of delivering on what they say
they will...

> Personally, I'm
>willing to live with the magnets (though I agree their presence is
>puzzling) to get a capability that Lowrance cannot deliver.

> Who's to
>say that Lowrance won't have magnets in their XM unit, if they ever
>bring one to market?

I hope they are wise enough to at least learn from Garmin's mistake..

Being "second" in introducing a new feature is not always a bad
thing.. :)

We will see...

Cheers!

Dave
>
>
>
>JKG
>
>
>In article >,
> Dave > wrote:
>> Ummm.. but when you want to use the XM Rx, they DO have magnets, and
>> they want to install them in a light aircraft, and they affect the
>> compass, and , and, and, .....
>>
>> On some other pilots groups, there is much discussion and disgust...
>>
>> It's a hot topic, and costing Garmin reputation..
>>
>> The magnets are very difficult to remove, and removal (they have made
>> it very clear) will void the warranty, do not admit it is a problem or
>> concern, and (apparently so far) have no intention of correcting it..
>>
>> (according to Garmin replies pasted in the NG's)
>>
>> And the XM is expected soon for the Lowrance...
>>
>> I do not own anAviation Garmin, what I relate here is from others who
>> do, and thet appear quite dissappointed..
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:30:34 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >In article >,
>> > Dave > wrote:
>> >> We like it very much, has exceeded our expectations....
>> >>
>> >> And NO FREAKING MAGNETS in the antenna with instructions to mount it
>> >> on the cowl!! (beside the compass) !!
>> >>
>> >> WHAT was Garmin thinking??
>> >
>> >
>> >Garmin's antennas do not contain magnets. The issue with magnets and
>> >the Garmin 396 has to do with the XM receiver. As far as I know,
>> >Lowrance doesn't have XM capability.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >JKG

[Dan Luke]

"karl gruber" wrote:

> Garmin leads the way in GPS and the other manufacturers are just
> playing catch up. There is no comparison, the 396 is the cutting edge
> and has the best form factor and user interface.

True, alas.

The 396 is a great piece of gear, but we desperately need some real
competition in this field. What's Lowrance's problem, anyway?

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Jay Honeck]

>>In what group is this conversation going on?

> CPA.. Cherokee Pilots Association.. prolly in the archives now...

And also this group, many times.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> The magnets aren't a big deal--really.

I admire your brand loyalty -- but the consensus of every pilot I know (and,
more importantly, every pilot I know who has purchased a 396) is that Garmin
really, REALLY didn't do their homework with that antenna.

It's almost as dumb as the floppy disk manufacturer that included a
refrigerator magnet with every disk...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> The 396 is a great piece of gear, but we desperately need some real
> competition in this field. What's Lowrance's problem, anyway?

Lowrance is big, dumb, and the world-leader in marine GPS -- a far larger
market -- so they look at aviation as an impossibly tiny niche market.

I'll bet their marine units get XM first.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Thomas Borchert]

Jonathan,

> that Lowrance cannot deliver
>

How do you know that? Maybe they just don't want to yet. After all, XM
requires quite an investment from the buyer and is usable only in the
US.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Karl,

> Garmin leads the way in GPS and the other manufacturers are just
> playing catch up. T
>

If you say to... I beg to differ.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article <dQqAf.714892$x96.30673@attbi_s72>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> > The magnets aren't a big deal--really.
>
> I admire your brand loyalty -- but the consensus of every pilot I know (and,
> more importantly, every pilot I know who has purchased a 396) is that Garmin
> really, REALLY didn't do their homework with that antenna.
>
> It's almost as dumb as the floppy disk manufacturer that included a
> refrigerator magnet with every disk...


It has nothing to do with brand loyalty and everything to do with
reality. The reality is that if you position the XM receiver away from
the compass, the magnets make no difference. Even on the glareshield of
most aircraft, the magnets should make little to no difference. I don't
know about you, but I rarely use my compass as my primary navigation
source.

My assessment is that Garmin did "do their homework" with the
receiver--it is a far superior design to the WxWorx equipment. The
magnets are in the receiver because Garmin markets the same receiver to
the automotive market, where the magnets may be beneficial. I suspect
Garmin's market research shows a much greater market in automotive than
in aviation.

Regardless of your opinion on the magnets, the fact is that if you want
XM weather in a hand held GPS, you have only one choice--Garmin.



JKG

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
Dave > wrote:
> Yes..all good points...
>
> But certianly a flub on their part, and the 11 ft of cable is not
> necessarily convenient.

While not ideal, Garmin's solution is certainly more convenient than a
comparable WxWorx + PDA or TabletPC installation.

I suspect that the magnets in the XM receiver were not a mistake, but
rather an intentional design element that appeals to the automotive
market. Garmin was able to reduce production costs on the receiver by
manufacturing only one type of receiver.

Still, I would have preferred to see a magnetic base that screws on to
the receiver. Such a design element could be easily excluded from the
aviation kits, but included with the automotive kits. However, I just
don't see why the magnets should be of big practical impact for most
people.



> >and Lowrance does NOT have XM capability.
>
> Yet,...... lately, the DO have a habit of delivering on what they say
> they will...

I haven't seen any official comment from Lowrance on an XM-enabled
portable GPS unit.



> Being "second" in introducing a new feature is not always a bad
> thing.. :)

No, but Garmin has done just about everything right with their
implementation. I hope that Lowrance does bring a unit to market at a
lower price, because I think that XM weather is fantastic, and a
capability that more pilots should employ.

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article <URqAf.714896$x96.702487@attbi_s72>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> Lowrance is big, dumb, and the world-leader in marine GPS -- a far larger
> market -- so they look at aviation as an impossibly tiny niche market.
>
> I'll bet their marine units get XM first.

The fact that Garmin has delivered XM on its marine units and Lowrance
hasn't just illustrates by how much Lowrance missed the boat.

Hopefully, they'll get on board soon. I have the impression that Garmin
pitched quite a few resources at XM delivery (they designed the
receivers and software themselves), and I suspect that such an
investment may have been a larger risk for Lowrance. Garmin has
products outside of the portable markets to which they could apply this
investment.

I will point out that I have preferred Lowrance units over the years,
but XM weather was too important for me to wait around for Lowrance.
While I don't care for some elements of Garmin's units, their UI is very
well designed, and they've done an excellent job of implementing the XM
weather features.



JKG

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
Thomas Borchert > wrote:

> Jonathan,
>
> > that Lowrance cannot deliver
> >
>
> How do you know that? Maybe they just don't want to yet. After all, XM
> requires quite an investment from the buyer and is usable only in the
> US.


Judging by the popularity of the Garmin 396, and the fact that the vast
majority of general aviation operations occur in the US, I'd say that
Lowrance missed the boat with XM--big time.



JKG

[Dan Luke]

"Thomas Borchert" wrote:

>> Garmin leads the way in GPS and the other manufacturers are just
>> playing catch up. T
>>
>
> If you say to... I beg to differ.

If you know of an aviation portable that comes anywhere near the
capability of Garmin's 396, tell us about it, Thomas.

--
Dan

"Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby."
--The Amazing Randi

[Dan Luke]

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

> Lowrance is big, dumb, and the world-leader in marine GPS -- a far
> larger market -- so they look at aviation as an impossibly tiny niche
> market.
>
> I'll bet their marine units get XM first.

....and by the time they have an XmWx aviation unit, Garmin will have
their next gen. unit ready to blow it away.

Crystal ball: Lowrance's unit will therefore sell poorly, justifying the
internal nay-sayers at Lowrance and guranteeing their continued weak r&d
spending on aviation portables.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Jay Honeck]

> Regardless of your opinion on the magnets, the fact is that if you want
> XM weather in a hand held GPS, you have only one choice--Garmin.

For now.

As with everything in our economy, a little competition ought to help. If
and when Lowrance jumps into the on-board weather market, it'll get
interesting...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dave]

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:42:00 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
> wrote:

>Judging by the popularity of the Garmin 396, and the fact that the vast
>majority of general aviation operations occur in the US, I'd say that
>Lowrance missed the boat with XM--big time.



Not really, Lowrance is far bigger in the Marine market than Garmin
cever hope to be.. :)

Dave

[Dave]

Maybe, but Lowrance has always been a little slow..

A rep told me yrs ago, (we talking marine instruments now)
that they never wanted their customers to have "test" their "new"
stuff.

They really wanted to get the bugs out of them BEFORE they
ship them...

Other manufacturers have the same philosophy , and I like it.

YMMV...

Dave


On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 17:36:17 +0100, Thomas Borchert
> wrote:

>Jonathan,
>
>> that Lowrance cannot deliver
>>
>
>How do you know that? Maybe they just don't want to yet. After all, XM
>requires quite an investment from the buyer and is usable only in the
>US.

[Doug]

Air updates coming, via XM-radio? Company buys air time from XM and
broadcast update database. All user has to do is have unit on and
receiving and in update mode. Presto -- updated via air!!!

And BTW, if you haven't used an automobile GPS to navigate that
courtesy car and get the "nearest Italian resturant list" as well as
turn by turn instructions, well.......you aren't in the top 40 of the
lordie.

[Dave]

Comments interspersed below..

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:31:08 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
> wrote:

>While not ideal, Garmin's solution is certainly more convenient than a
>comparable WxWorx + PDA or TabletPC installation.

Agreed... much better....
>
>I suspect that the magnets in the XM receiver were not a mistake,

They were not, they just did not think very much about the aviation
market..

In fact, they did not think at all...

> but rather an intentional design element that appeals to the automotive
>market.

Correct

> Garmin was able to reduce production costs on the receiver by
>manufacturing only one type of receiver.

Ummm... a lot of customers would have appreciated it if they had
"saved" the cost of the magnets....
>
>Still, I would have preferred to see a magnetic base that screws on to
>the receiver. Such a design element could be easily excluded from the
>aviation kits, but included with the automotive kits.


Agreed....


> However, I just
>don't see why the magnets should be of big practical impact for most
>people.
>
They are not, for MOST customers, but they are aparently an serious
issue with the pilot customers, and should be..


Simply put, it is in the instruction books on flying, boating,
navigation, the manuals for the compasses, (marine & aviation),
placards on instrument panels, even some sunglasses....DO NOT, EVER,
FOR ANY REASON , place ANY object near the magnetic compass, in case
it MIGHT affect it.

Regardless if you or others EVER use it, it is the LAST available
directional instrument available when everything else goes tango
uniform.

I use mine constantly, to set the DG, and to cross check all
directional equipment...

Then, all of a sudden, we have an experienced aviation manufacturer
BUILD magnets in a device to be placed on the cowl of an aircraft !!

Then when CUSTOMERS complain, with VERY valid reasons to do so,
Garmin says, in effect, leave them in, or void your warranty.... (!)

If Lowrance or any other manufacturer "has to catch up" well, they
have a great opportunity..

The (alleged) leader just stumbled.... big time...

And instead if saying , "oops, sorry, lets fix this now" , they say,
tough, thats the way it is, don't void your warranty.....

Not the best marketing/service strategy in a tight , well connected
market - hmmmm?

.........word travels fast.... (and has)

Dave



>
>> >and Lowrance does NOT have XM capability.
>>
>> Yet,...... lately, the DO have a habit of delivering on what they say
>> they will...
>
>I haven't seen any official comment from Lowrance on an XM-enabled
>portable GPS unit.
>
>
>
>> Being "second" in introducing a new feature is not always a bad
>> thing.. :)
>
>No, but Garmin has done just about everything right with their
>implementation. I hope that Lowrance does bring a unit to market at a
>lower price, because I think that XM weather is fantastic, and a
>capability that more pilots should employ.

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
Dave > wrote:

> >Judging by the popularity of the Garmin 396, and the fact that the vast
> >majority of general aviation operations occur in the US, I'd say that
> >Lowrance missed the boat with XM--big time.
>
>
>
> Not really, Lowrance is far bigger in the Marine market than Garmin
> cever hope to be.. :)
>
> Dave


And Lowrance's marine unit with XM is... where?


JKG

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
Dave > wrote:
> Simply put, it is in the instruction books on flying, boating,
> navigation, the manuals for the compasses, (marine & aviation),
> placards on instrument panels, even some sunglasses....DO NOT, EVER,
> FOR ANY REASON , place ANY object near the magnetic compass, in case
> it MIGHT affect it.

None of my books make such a statement. I suspect that the deviation
cards in the aircraft most of us fly are not very accurate, unless you
have a compass swing done periodically. There are lots of things that
surround the magnetic compass that could affect it. A portable XM
receiver that can be easily removed if the compass is your last hope of
survival doesn't rate very highly on my list of concerns.


JKG

[George Patterson]

Jonathan Goodish wrote:

> I suspect that the deviation
> cards in the aircraft most of us fly are not very accurate, unless you
> have a compass swing done periodically.

The one in my Maule was way off. The card provided by the factory said it was 5
degrees off all the cardinal headings. With the engine and avionics on, I saw
from 5 to over 15 degrees off those headings using a Army nav compass.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Thomas Borchert]

Dan,

> The 396 is a great piece of gear, but we desperately need some real
> competition in this field. What's Lowrance's problem, anyway?
>

We have competition. Only not in the very top end of the market. Glad
you can all afford that kind of unit. I certainly can't.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Dan,

> If you know of an aviation portable that comes anywhere near the
> capability of Garmin's 396, tell us about it, Thomas.
>

If yo know of an aviation portable that comes anywhere near the PRICE
of the 396...

All I'm trying to say is that a maximum of features is not the only
thing to consider. Display size and resolution, for example, matter,
too. Price as well, for some.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Dan Luke]

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
> Dan,
>
>> The 396 is a great piece of gear, but we desperately need some real
>> competition in this field. What's Lowrance's problem, anyway?
>>
>
> We have competition. Only not in the very top end of the market.

That's the point...

> Glad you can all afford that kind of unit. I certainly can't.

....and that's the problem. I bet Garmin is making some very fat margin
on the 396, as they should for beating the hell out of their
competitors. Nice for them; tough for us who want--hell, *need*--the
revolutionary capabilities of the 396.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Dan Luke]

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

>> Regardless of your opinion on the magnets, the fact is that if you
>> want
>> XM weather in a hand held GPS, you have only one choice--Garmin.
>
> For now.
>
> As with everything in our economy, a little competition ought to help.
> If and when Lowrance jumps into the on-board weather market, it'll get
> interesting...

It's not just Garmin we need competition for: I'm also rooting for WSI
to form a strong alliance--perhaps with Lowrance--to put some
subscription price pressure on XmWx.

I've now flown with the 396 for several months, and the days before it
seem like the dark ages--like before GPS or ANR headsets. There is a
huge market for this technology if the price comes down a little.
$2,500 + $30/mo. is simply too steep for many people.

--
Dan

"The future has actually been here for a while, it's just not readily
available to everyone."
-- some guy at MIT

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
Thomas Borchert > wrote:

> If yo know of an aviation portable that comes anywhere near the PRICE
> of the 396...
>
> All I'm trying to say is that a maximum of features is not the only
> thing to consider. Display size and resolution, for example, matter,
> too. Price as well, for some.

Thomas, I think you're missing the point. The point is, if you want the
features that the Garmin 396 has to offer--namely XM weather--you have
only one choice, which is the Garmin 396. If you want those features,
the cost of the unit is well worth the investment.

I will also point out that while the AirMap 2000c has a larger screen,
it is a lower resolution screen when compared to the Garmin 296/396.



JKG

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
Thomas Borchert > wrote:
> > The 396 is a great piece of gear, but we desperately need some real
> > competition in this field. What's Lowrance's problem, anyway?
> >
>
> We have competition. Only not in the very top end of the market. Glad
> you can all afford that kind of unit. I certainly can't.

We don't have competition, because there is no other hand held unit on
the market that can do XM weather. Therefore, there is no competitive
unit to the Garmin 396.

For you, it really doesn't matter since you're outside of the US. I
can't see any real benefit to the 396 if you can't receive XM signals
and obtain data relevant to your area.



JKG

[Doug]

Garmin rules!

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article . com>,
"Doug" > wrote:

> Garmin rules!


At the moment, yes, they do. I'm not saying that I'm happy or unhappy
about that, but the fact is that they produce high-quality products that
the market demands, and they do it better than anyone else--that's why
they "rule" the market at the present time.



JKG

[Dave]

No idea Jonathan!

Havn't even been looking..

5 months B 4 the boat comes out of the shed... :(

Dave



On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 22:05:47 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Dave > wrote:
>
>> >Judging by the popularity of the Garmin 396, and the fact that the vast
>> >majority of general aviation operations occur in the US, I'd say that
>> >Lowrance missed the boat with XM--big time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not really, Lowrance is far bigger in the Marine market than Garmin
>> cever hope to be.. :)
>>
>> Dave
>
>
>And Lowrance's marine unit with XM is... where?
>
>
>JKG

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
Dave > wrote:

> No idea Jonathan!
>
> Havn't even been looking..
>
> 5 months B 4 the boat comes out of the shed... :(


I would say that you need to move to a warmer climate!


JKG

[Dave]

No doubt about that!

The break from boating DOES give me more time to fly tho.... :)

We live on a river, so, in Spring, the freshet has to disperse B 4 we
can launch..

Winter has not really started yet! 10 deg C here yesterday... (!)

Almost no snow here, snowmobilers ****ed, skiers, snowboarders bummed
out...

Dave



On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 15:33:26 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Dave > wrote:
>
>> No idea Jonathan!
>>
>> Havn't even been looking..
>>
>> 5 months B 4 the boat comes out of the shed... :(
>
>
>I would say that you need to move to a warmer climate!
>
>
>JKG

[JJS]

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message ...
> Dan,
>
>> The 396 is a great piece of gear, but we desperately need some real
>> competition in this field. What's Lowrance's problem, anyway?
>>
>
> We have competition. Only not in the very top end of the market. Glad
> you can all afford that kind of unit. I certainly can't.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>
There was an article in the "Daily" or "Sunday Oklahoman" a week or so ago. Lowrance is merging with a foreign
electronics company that specializes in high end electronics for expensive boats. What this means for aviation.. I
guess we'll have to wait and see. Could be good / could be bad. I found the following link.

http://www.lowrance.com/company/press/pr_merger013006.htm

Joe Schneider
8437R



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