"oh, that's common practice"

[mhorowit]

I was attempting to set up a pre-purchase inspection on a Tcraft at Ft.
Lauderdale.
The owner said he'd need a $500 non-refundable deposit before anyone
did the inspection. "they might nick the prop, or drop a sparkplug
or....". and he said "that's common practice".
Having looked at 5 Tcraft in the last three months, I knew that wasn't
common practice.
I'm thinking this is one deal I should walk away from, facing the
seller as I walk backwards.

Just as a sanity check though, have you heard of a seller requiring a
non-refundable deposit prior to an inspection? - Mike

[John Ammeter]

I've never heard of it but, then, I haven't had the opportunity of
seeing or hearing every possible situation...

Personally, I think the seller knows the Tcraft has some problems and is
hoping to at least get $500 from you.... before you cancel the deal...

You've got the right idea, though, about walking away...

John

mhorowit wrote:
> I was attempting to set up a pre-purchase inspection on a Tcraft at Ft.
> Lauderdale.
> The owner said he'd need a $500 non-refundable deposit before anyone
> did the inspection. "they might nick the prop, or drop a sparkplug
> or....". and he said "that's common practice".
> Having looked at 5 Tcraft in the last three months, I knew that wasn't
> common practice.
> I'm thinking this is one deal I should walk away from, facing the
> seller as I walk backwards.
>
> Just as a sanity check though, have you heard of a seller requiring a
> non-refundable deposit prior to an inspection? - Mike
>

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article . com>,
"mhorowit" > wrote:

> I was attempting to set up a pre-purchase inspection on a Tcraft at Ft.
> Lauderdale.
> The owner said he'd need a $500 non-refundable deposit before anyone
> did the inspection. "they might nick the prop, or drop a sparkplug
> or....". and he said "that's common practice".
> Having looked at 5 Tcraft in the last three months, I knew that wasn't
> common practice.
> I'm thinking this is one deal I should walk away from, facing the
> seller as I walk backwards.
>
> Just as a sanity check though, have you heard of a seller requiring a
> non-refundable deposit prior to an inspection? - Mike

It sounds like an attempt by the seller to make a quick $500 --
especially if he knows something about the plane that you don't (bad
fabric, sick engine, rusty tubing -- to name a few possibilities).

--
Remve "_" from email to reply to me personally.

[Steve Foley]

Tell him that if the deposit is non-refundable, that the seller is REQUIRED
to address all discrepancies found to the buyer's satisfaction. That's
common practice too.


If he can make up the rules, so can you.

Calvinball anyone?



"mhorowit" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I was attempting to set up a pre-purchase inspection on a Tcraft at Ft.
> Lauderdale.
> The owner said he'd need a $500 non-refundable deposit before anyone
> did the inspection. "they might nick the prop, or drop a sparkplug
> or....". and he said "that's common practice".
> Having looked at 5 Tcraft in the last three months, I knew that wasn't
> common practice.
> I'm thinking this is one deal I should walk away from, facing the
> seller as I walk backwards.
>
> Just as a sanity check though, have you heard of a seller requiring a
> non-refundable deposit prior to an inspection? - Mike
>

[Robert M. Gary]

Tell him the A&P doing the inspection has his own insurance and any
dropped plugs,etc can be taken up with the licensed A&P.

[Toks Desalu]

In my humble opinion, that is completely absurd!

I would walk away without looking back.

"mhorowit" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I was attempting to set up a pre-purchase inspection on a Tcraft at Ft.
> Lauderdale.
> The owner said he'd need a $500 non-refundable deposit before anyone
> did the inspection. "they might nick the prop, or drop a sparkplug
> or....". and he said "that's common practice".
> Having looked at 5 Tcraft in the last three months, I knew that wasn't
> common practice.
> I'm thinking this is one deal I should walk away from, facing the
> seller as I walk backwards.
>
> Just as a sanity check though, have you heard of a seller requiring a
> non-refundable deposit prior to an inspection? - Mike
>

[RapidRonnie]

I would ask him to give you a list of three working GA A&Ps that will
send you a letter with their signature and AP number that they have had
experience with this practice. I would also post the seller's name and
the N number of his airplane.

[Richard Riley]

Don't walk. Run.

If he wants to screw you over this early in the transaction, he'll do
it at some point no matter how many guarentees you have in place.

If he gets 5 or 10 people to pony up the $500, he'll have enough to fix
the problems, and then he won't have to sell it.

[Lou]

Ask him for a $1000 non refundable deposit for your time. After all you
could be passing on the plane of a lifetime while wasting time looking
over his.
It's common practice

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"mhorowit" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I was attempting to set up a pre-purchase inspection on a Tcraft at Ft.
> Lauderdale.
> The owner said he'd need a $500 non-refundable deposit before anyone
> did the inspection. "they might nick the prop, or drop a sparkplug
> or....". and he said "that's common practice".
> Having looked at 5 Tcraft in the last three months, I knew that wasn't
> common practice.
> I'm thinking this is one deal I should walk away from, facing the
> seller as I walk backwards.
>
> Just as a sanity check though, have you heard of a seller requiring a
> non-refundable deposit prior to an inspection? - Mike
>


$500 NON-refundable? Bu!!$hit. I might be able to stomach a $500 deposit
that was fully refundable if no damage was done but he basically asking you
to pay $500 to think about buying his airplane.

[CB]

When you buy a house you generally put up some "earnest money" so that
the seller takes the house off the market while you arrange a
prepurchase inspection. You can walk away from the deal after the
inspection, but you forfiet the money. Or you can go forward with the
deal, but negotiate who's going to pay for fixing what. You can use
the inspection as leverage to lower the sale price. That's common
practice - in real estate.

Never came across it in buying used motor vehicles, though.

[Ron Wanttaja]

On 20 Jan 2006 14:13:32 -0800, "CB" > wrote:

> When you buy a house you generally put up some "earnest money" so that
> the seller takes the house off the market while you arrange a
> prepurchase inspection. You can walk away from the deal after the
> inspection, but you forfiet the money. Or you can go forward with the
> deal, but negotiate who's going to pay for fixing what. You can use
> the inspection as leverage to lower the sale price. That's common
> practice - in real estate.

Corrie, by what the original poster said, that wasn't the purpose of the
deposit: "The owner said he'd need a $500 non-refundable deposit before anyone
did the inspection. "they might nick the prop, or drop a sparkplug
or...."....

That's quite a bit difference from earnest money. The guy wanted $500 just to
allow anything more than a visual inspection of the exterior. Indeed, a signal
to run.

Ron Wanttaja

[Lou]

When you put down earnest money and do an home inspection, you have the
right to back out if the inspection fails. If you go through with the
deal the money goes toward the purchase. Never is the money an
absolute give away.

[abripl]

I also wonder if the owner is tired of tire kickers who want a free
ride or spend half the day chatting. The $500 may be to weed out
gabbers who are not really serious buyers.

If you are serious you might suggest to the owner you will put the $500
in an escrow with the local bank and the owner would have to prove that
you damaged anything.

----------------------------------------------------------------
SQ2000 canard http://www.abri.com/sq2000

[Mike Beede]

In article om>,
"abripl" > wrote:

> I also wonder if the owner is tired of tire kickers who want a free
> ride or spend half the day chatting. The $500 may be to weed out
> gabbers who are not really serious buyers.

Tire kickers don't hire an A&P to do an inspection, do they?

Mike Beede

[Michael Horowitz]

On 20 Jan 2006 15:23:36 -0800, "abripl" >
wrote:

>If you are serious you might suggest to the owner you will put the $500
>in an escrow with the local bank and the owner would have to prove that
>you damaged anything.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------

Now THAT is an excellent idea.- Mike

[Dave S]

Mike Beede wrote:
> In article om>,
> "abripl" > wrote:
>
>
>>I also wonder if the owner is tired of tire kickers who want a free
>>ride or spend half the day chatting. The $500 may be to weed out
>>gabbers who are not really serious buyers.
>
>
> Tire kickers don't hire an A&P to do an inspection, do they?
>
> Mike Beede
Thats what I thought.. a pre-buy is a pretty serious event in my mind.

Dave

[Flyingmonk]

Walk away, heck run away. You are the buyer, you control the fund. He
needs to be flexible to your needs.

With that said, I'm sure he'll get a few suckers. They always do...

The Monk

[[email protected]]

Exactly, having sold over 30 planes and rotorcraft I can assure you,
the vast MAJORITY will show up wanting to talk or get a ride. You can
weed out tire kickers on the phone. I typically ask how they intend to
pay for the plane or heli and do they intend to buy NOW. Your Tcraft
guy may have had a month of tire kickers to deal with. I have required
a pre buy deposit to be refunded off purchase. It saved me a hell of a
lot of time and it has NEVER killed a sale. Tell the guy you aren't a
tire kicker and offer to escrow the money. Chances are, if he thinks
you are serious, and let's face it, it's not a King Air, he's going to
forget about the deposit.

[Smitty Two]

In article . com>,
" > wrote:

> Exactly, having sold over 30 planes and rotorcraft I can assure you,
> the vast MAJORITY will show up wanting to talk or get a ride. You can
> weed out tire kickers on the phone. I typically ask how they intend to
> pay for the plane or heli and do they intend to buy NOW. Your Tcraft
> guy may have had a month of tire kickers to deal with. I have required
> a pre buy deposit to be refunded off purchase. It saved me a hell of a
> lot of time and it has NEVER killed a sale. Tell the guy you aren't a
> tire kicker and offer to escrow the money. Chances are, if he thinks
> you are serious, and let's face it, it's not a King Air, he's going to
> forget about the deposit.

If your M.O. works for you, I see no reason to change it. But, I wonder
how you know that your policies have never killed a sale.

It seems to me that buying an airplane is kind of like buying a car or a
house. The first stage is research, learning what's available, what the
prices are like, what your options are, what you like and don't like. I
wonder how many people who are serious about buying a plane know exactly
what they're looking for before they start looking.

I'd be pretty surprised if the first, second, third, fourth, or fifth
person that came to look (and test drive) my used car that I'm selling,
bought it. How many houses does a real estate agent show before he sells
one? If a seller can't deal with lookers, he should turn the sale over
to someone who's a professional and knows and accepts the odds.

Sure, the prospective buyer wants to talk. He wants to figure out
whether you're a man to be trusted. Your attitude is more important than
the choice of topic of conversation. When I rented my investment house,
I handed the key over to a gentleman whom I'd met the day before. He
gave me an out of town check and I drove 600 miles back home and went to
sleep easy. We had talked about his career. It was a handshake deal, no
lease, no written rental agreement. I checked no references. That was
three years ago, and I've had no problems whatsoever.

If I were to buy a plane, I'd look at many, and I'd want to fly several
of them. I don't have a lot of experience with different airplanes, so
it would take me a fair amount of field research to narrow my choices
down to one or a few make, model, and year ranges. Yep, I'd take up a
lot of the seller's time, asking a lot of questions, and poking around
as much as I could. If the seller was offended by that, or thought I was
wasting his time, I wouldn't buy from him, period.

[COLIN LAMB]

Escrow is not necessarily a good idea.

If the buyer has the power to withdraw the funds, then the seller is not
protected. If the escrow provides that the buyer and seller together must
agree on funds withdrawal, then the seller can just refuse to allow the
funds to be disbursed. In that case, the bank will hire a lawyer to
protect themselves and that will eat up the entire escrowed amount, since
the bank's attorney fees will come from the escrowed money.

If the airplane was not of special interest, I would walk away. If I
thought it was the perfect airplane, I might offer the seller a $500 earnest
money agreement, which would state that if it passed an inspection made by a
reputable A & P mechanic, with no significant defects, then I would agree to
purchase the aircraft. If there were defects, then I would not have to
purchase the aircraft and have my $500 refunded.

If he is not willing to do that, I would not want to buy an airplane from
him.

Colin