engine choices

[Tater Schuld]

I saw one post about evinrude marine motors being used for aircraft, and
issues due to water cooling.

has there been other engines that have been used? say snomobile engines? A
freind of mine has a evinrude snomobile engine that he thinks might work. I
think otherwise

[xSoldier]

"Tater Schuld" > wrote in message
...
> I saw one post about evinrude marine motors being used for aircraft, and
> issues due to water cooling.
>
> has there been other engines that have been used? say snomobile engines? A
> freind of mine has a evinrude snomobile engine that he thinks might work.
I
> think otherwise


What otherwise do ya think there Tater?

[Tater Schuld]

"karel" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tater Schuld" > schreef in bericht
> ...
>>I saw one post about evinrude marine motors being used for aircraft, and
>>issues due to water cooling.
>>
>> has there been other engines that have been used? say snomobile engines?
>> A freind of mine has a evinrude snomobile engine that he thinks might
>> work. I think otherwise
>
> There's one execellent snowmobile engine conversion, it's called a Rotax.

I wasnt sure but i thought there was a snomobile tht used rotax engines.
didn't want to show my ignorance.

why only one engine conversion? have evinrude come up with a similar unit,
charge 10% less than rotax, and clean up in a new market!

[Lakeview Bill]

Evinrude and Rotax are both owned by Bombardier Recreational Products Inc.



"Tater Schuld" > wrote in message
...
> "karel" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Tater Schuld" > schreef in bericht
> > ...
> >>I saw one post about evinrude marine motors being used for aircraft, and
> >>issues due to water cooling.
> >>
> >> has there been other engines that have been used? say snomobile
engines?
> >> A freind of mine has a evinrude snomobile engine that he thinks might
> >> work. I think otherwise
> >
> > There's one execellent snowmobile engine conversion, it's called a
Rotax.
>
> I wasnt sure but i thought there was a snomobile tht used rotax engines.
> didn't want to show my ignorance.
>
> why only one engine conversion? have evinrude come up with a similar unit,
> charge 10% less than rotax, and clean up in a new market!
>
>

[Tater Schuld]

"Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
om...
> Evinrude and Rotax are both owned by Bombardier Recreational Products Inc.
>
Yeah, i assumed so. I didn't want to blurt it out if i was wrong tho.....

anyway, I talked to a few snomobilers in the area, and they say that a 60hp
engine shouldnt cost more than $500 NEW, maybe $300 used.

add a redrive and I *should* be go, right?

(i know I am wrong, i want you to tell me WHY i am wrong)

[Bret Ludwig]

Tater Schuld wrote:
> "Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Evinrude and Rotax are both owned by Bombardier Recreational Products Inc.
> >
> Yeah, i assumed so. I didn't want to blurt it out if i was wrong tho.....
>
> anyway, I talked to a few snomobilers in the area, and they say that a 60hp
> engine shouldnt cost more than $500 NEW, maybe $300 used.
>
> add a redrive and I *should* be go, right?
>
> (i know I am wrong, i want you to tell me WHY i am wrong)

The Rotax two cycle snowmobile style engines sold for ultralight use
were upgraded versions and have fallen out of favor due to seizures,
even with liquid cooled versions. My guess is the redrives were set up
to not easily go on to the commodity snowmobile engine either. I
haven't seen a two cycle anything in the pattern over my house in
years: we had several Avid Flyers and Kitfoxes buzzing overhead in the
late 80s and early 90s. Now we have T-6s and L-39s! We've yupscaled.

Most people want to get as far away from two cycle power as possible.

I never understood why the Mazda rotary is not used in outboard
engines. I know some Honda outboards use an automotive engine core, and
that at one time there were licensing issues with the Wnakel patents
restricting Toyo Kogyo from industrial sales. Those patents are now
long since history.

[Richard Lamb]

Bret Ludwig wrote:

> The Rotax two cycle snowmobile style engines sold for ultralight use
> were upgraded versions and have fallen out of favor due to seizures,
> even with liquid cooled versions. My guess is the redrives were set up
> to not easily go on to the commodity snowmobile engine either. I
> haven't seen a two cycle anything in the pattern over my house in
> years: we had several Avid Flyers and Kitfoxes buzzing overhead in the
> late 80s and early 90s. Now we have T-6s and L-39s! We've yupscaled.
>

We have an eclectic mix of VW and two-stroke around here.
I've flown a few of each - mostly draggy parasols (natch).

The V-dub's mighty roar is a lot of fun.
Reliability-wise, I think it depends a lot on the individual airplane.
Not just how well the thing is built, but also how well powered it is.
You see, I've come _not_ to believe in under powered homebuilts.
They are just not that much fun. Unfortunately.

I've never flown a 1600 that I was really comfortable in.
The engine blaring out 90 to 95 percent just to maintain altitude?
If you can't hear that engine straining, then you have no machine
in your soul.

The 1835 is a different story. There's enough there to throttle
back and find a sweet spot. Enough prop to climb well.
Considering what it costs to build one, the 1835 should be *the* VW.

The 2180 is a sweet thing. Loaf along at 3 GPH? Or Roar up at the clouds.
But..
Fully dressed with accessory case, Bendex mag, electric start, 20 Amp
alternator = 205 pounds? And an expensive thing by comparison.

Robert Padget (Zuehl) built a little 1/2 VW parasol that actually flew.
I never got to fly is, but I saw it fly quite often.
900 some CC. And Robert is often called Big Bob, because he is.
It flew well. Vibrated like hell over most of the RPM range.
But you kind of have to expect that.


Now, with my current medical situation, caught in the catch 22 of the
Sport Pilot rules...

I've been thinking about the smooth immediate power of a Rotax 503. Again.

Just as a practical solution to getting back in the air.
That 254 pound weight limit is a (explicative deleted) tough one.
But with a Rotax 2 stroke on it, looks like it, sounds like it, and smells
like it... fly it!



Richard

[Ron Webb]

"Richard Lamb" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>
> > The Rotax two cycle snowmobile style engines sold for ultralight use
>> were upgraded versions and have fallen out of favor due to seizures,
>> even with liquid cooled versions.

First, calling a Rotax 582 a "snowmobile engine" is misleading. They were
(and are) sold specifically as aircraft engines, they put out around 65 HP,
and they had several upgrades internal to them (better wrist pin bearings
was one). The new price was around $5000. The snowmobile version of the same
engine (the 583) had around 90 hp, showing how much Rotax gave up in an
attempt to upgrade reliability..

The reason there was (is) such a reliability problem has to do with
carburetion. Several things that you'd never expect were common failure
modes. I remember the following:

The engine would shake so badly it'd foam the fuel in the float bowl - not
enough fuel getting to the engine caused a lean mixture, lean mixture causes
overheating, overheating causes the pistons to expand until they're bigger
than the bore. Pistons would seize. If you succeeded in landing, you'd find
the (now cool) engine would start and run fine. Get a pair of clean shorts,
then go back up?!??

This could happen other ways as well. The common thread was the thing goes
lean and seizes. Right in the operators manual, it says that the thing may
stop without warning. I had it drilled into me by my (now dead) flight
instructor that you "never fly over anything you can't land on."

The new snowmobile engines don't do that. Fuel injection is not subject to
such things - and if it does see the temp headed for trouble, it'll throttle
back - not die completely. My new Polaris Fusion 900 snowmobile (
http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Snowmobiles/2006Models/Performance/900Fusion/ )
has an engine that weighs less than a Rotax 582, puts out 150 hp, and is
fuel injected by a mature reliable design. It will also do 135 mph on
Harding lake from now 'till the spring thaw!

The only thing stopping me from ripping it out of the snowmobile and
mounting it on my kitfox clone is money, and a strong paternal feeling for
the snowbound F-16 fighter it's in now ;^}

[Tater Schuld]

"Ron Webb" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Richard Lamb" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>>
>> > The Rotax two cycle snowmobile style engines sold for ultralight use
>>> were upgraded versions and have fallen out of favor due to seizures,
>>> even with liquid cooled versions.
>
> First, calling a Rotax 582 a "snowmobile engine" is misleading. They were
> (and are) sold specifically as aircraft engines, they put out around 65
> HP,

don't recall him referring to the 582s in particluar. just that snomobile
engines were used for ultralights

[Tater Schuld]

"Ron Webb" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Richard Lamb" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>>
>> > The Rotax two cycle snowmobile style engines sold for ultralight use
>>> were upgraded versions and have fallen out of favor due to seizures,
>>> even with liquid cooled versions.
........
>
> The new snowmobile engines don't do that. Fuel injection is not subject to
> such things - and if it does see the temp headed for trouble, it'll
> throttle back - not die completely. My new Polaris Fusion 900 snowmobile
> (
> http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Snowmobiles/2006Models/Performance/900Fusion/ )
> has an engine that weighs less than a Rotax 582, puts out 150 hp, and is
> fuel injected by a mature reliable design. It will also do 135 mph on
> Harding lake from now 'till the spring thaw!
>
> The only thing stopping me from ripping it out of the snowmobile and
> mounting it on my kitfox clone is money, and a strong paternal feeling for
> the snowbound F-16 fighter it's in now ;^}

yeah, i saw some of those. about the same price as an ultralight kit w/o
motor, or sometimes with.

if I had the choice between a snomobile and an ultralight, i'd go fly. right
now neigther option is available yet (YET!) so all i can do is speculate and
window shop.

[clare at snyder.on.ca]

On 29 Jan 2006 17:19:38 -0800, "Bret Ludwig" >
wrote:

>
>Tater Schuld wrote:
>> "Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> > Evinrude and Rotax are both owned by Bombardier Recreational Products Inc.
>> >
>> Yeah, i assumed so. I didn't want to blurt it out if i was wrong tho.....
>>
>> anyway, I talked to a few snomobilers in the area, and they say that a 60hp
>> engine shouldnt cost more than $500 NEW, maybe $300 used.
>>
>> add a redrive and I *should* be go, right?
>>
>> (i know I am wrong, i want you to tell me WHY i am wrong)
>
> The Rotax two cycle snowmobile style engines sold for ultralight use
>were upgraded versions and have fallen out of favor due to seizures,
>even with liquid cooled versions. My guess is the redrives were set up
>to not easily go on to the commodity snowmobile engine either. I
>haven't seen a two cycle anything in the pattern over my house in
>years: we had several Avid Flyers and Kitfoxes buzzing overhead in the
>late 80s and early 90s. Now we have T-6s and L-39s! We've yupscaled.
>
> Most people want to get as far away from two cycle power as possible.
>
> I never understood why the Mazda rotary is not used in outboard
>engines. I know some Honda outboards use an automotive engine core, and
>that at one time there were licensing issues with the Wnakel patents
>restricting Toyo Kogyo from industrial sales. Those patents are now
>long since history.

The rotary is heavy.Compared to a 2 stroke. It also has thermal issues
that MAY be a problem in an outboard. They WERE used on snowmobiles,
motorcycles, and welders.