Aircraft Registration

[jcarlyle]

In the FAA aircraft registration listing on the web there is a section
called Airworthiness. In this section my ASW-19B is listed as having an
Engine Manufacturer of AMA/EXPR and an Engine Model of UNKNOWN ENG.
Three questions about this:

1. EXPR must mean experimental, but what does AMA mean? (There is no
hint in the Definitions menu item for this web site.)

2. I don't think the ASW-19 was ever offered with an engine, so why is
there any listing at all in these two spaces? (I have seen other FAA
glider registrations for ASW-19Bs with NONE in both these areas.)

3. Should I bother to get this changed (does it mean anything, say to
an insurance company) or should I just let sleeping dogs lie?

-John

[chris]

I suspect that AMA is short for "Amateur Built", which is not likely to
be accurate for your ASW-19 but I think most "Experimentals" are
assumed to be Amateur built so they seem to get grouped together. Not
sure if what the legal ramifications are, but this seems to be common
for many gliders registered as EXPR.

Chris



jcarlyle wrote:
> In the FAA aircraft registration listing on the web there is a section
> called Airworthiness. In this section my ASW-19B is listed as having an
> Engine Manufacturer of AMA/EXPR and an Engine Model of UNKNOWN ENG.
> Three questions about this:
>
> 1. EXPR must mean experimental, but what does AMA mean? (There is no
> hint in the Definitions menu item for this web site.)
>
> 2. I don't think the ASW-19 was ever offered with an engine, so why is
> there any listing at all in these two spaces? (I have seen other FAA
> glider registrations for ASW-19Bs with NONE in both these areas.)
>
> 3. Should I bother to get this changed (does it mean anything, say to
> an insurance company) or should I just let sleeping dogs lie?
>
> -John

[jphoenix]

John,

AMA means amateur built, which it is not, but that is the default in
the FAA registry's computerized recordkeeping system, so it will not be
changed. Your experimental airworthiness certificate will not say
amateur built. Don't worry about this.

Engine model is always unknown in the database when there is no engine.
Some motorgilder entries in the database say unknown as well because,
well, the FAA just doesn't know. Don't worry about this either if you
have no engine. If you dio have an engine that is unknown, don't worry
about it, noone really cares.

What you should worry about is if your registration status says
"unknown" or "in question". If your registration status says that, you
have a problem (and many gliders do, just search under Schleicher or
Schempp Hirth for instance).

Go here:
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/?CFID=18263402&CFTOKEN=57737891
and click on the link
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/registration_status/
and search for your N number.

An "in question" status means you have not reported the sale of your
glider, the purchase of your glider, or you have not returned the
tri-ennial report the FAA sent you. That means your registration is "in
question" and that is not good.

Recently the FAA sent a message stating, in effect, that if an aircraft
attempts to enter the "National Airspace System" with a registration
status that is in question, that aircraft will be denied access to the
National Airspace System. 'Cuz I'm an air carrier airworthiness flavor
fed - owning an aircraft with a registration status that is not in
question - I did not give it a second thought. However, out of
curiosity, I searched for Schweizer and Schempp-Hirth, etc. and there's
are quite a few gliders that *may* be denied access to the National
Airspace System - whatever that means, don't ask me, I'm not an Ops
guy. I suspect it has something to do with controlled airspace, etc.
but I'm not planning on getting anywhere near any of that in the near
future.

I recommend, if you plan to enter the NAS at any time in the near
future, or maybe just want to stay slightly on this side of the legal
fence, you check the database for your N number and see if you're on
the list.

Just so you know that I am not holier than the Pope, I got a letter
from Oke City saying I had not done something right (they were wrong,
of couurse!!! ;-) BUT, I did send the guy a letter explaiing that I did
send the form in, etc. and when, etc, just to keep my records straight
and it was all taken care of in the end after they dug my form out of
somebody's in box over there in Soaring Sooner land.

By the way, I've had an opportunity a while back to fly with the
Soaring Sooners at Hinton, Ok while I was doing some hard time at the
FAA school in OKC and they are a great bunch of folks with a nice
1-26E, well worth a visit if you find yourself in the area.

Rgds,

Jim

[jphoenix]

Ha! I used the Always word again.

I'm never gonna to learn.

Jim

[Shawn]

jphoenix wrote:
> Ha! I used the Always word again.
>
> I'm never gonna to learn.

Maybe ya will, maybe ya won't! :-)

Shawn

[Eric Greenwell]

jphoenix wrote:
I suspect it has something to do with controlled airspace, etc.
> but I'm not planning on getting anywhere near any of that in the near
> future.
>
> I recommend, if you plan to enter the NAS at any time in the near
> future, or maybe just want to stay slightly on this side of the legal
> fence, you check the database for your N number and see if you're on
> the list.

Perhaps the airspace system might include permission to enter a wave
window. Be a bummer to be told "NO" as you struggle to stay below 18,000
feet!


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[jcarlyle]

Thanks for the replies, Chris and Jim. For the record, my Schleicher
ASW-19B is Type Certificated. It's disconcerting that the FAA
officially documents it as having an amateur built, experimental
engine, because there is no STC! I once worked for a huge US
bureaucracy that believed their paperwork rather than their victim's
lyin' eyes, so I have visions of undergoing the mother of all ramp
checks someday! Jim, can I have a contact number? <grin>

Seriously, Jim, is there no way of getting these engine entries
changed? I checked a couple of ASW-19 registrations; it was split 50/50
between NONE in Engine Manufacturer and Engine Model, and AMA/EXPR and
UNKNOWN ENG like I have. Some were registered correctly years before
mine, and others correctly within a few months of mine. It almost seems
like a typo, which should be easily correctable (he said naively). Like
I said, I'm worried about undergoing the mother of all ramp checks...

On the other subject, I did check the status of my registration - it
says "valid". I agree with Jim, this is something that all US owners
should check out. AOPA has been putting out bulletins on this, too, so
it's clearly an area of active concern to the FAA, meaning that people
should take it seriously.

-John

[jphoenix]

John,

Send a letter to:

FAA Aircraft Registration Branch, AFS-750
P.O. Box 25504
Oklahoma City, OK 73125-0504

Explain the incorrect information and they will, eventually, change it,
depending on exactly why it was entered like that, I presume a mistake
in teh computer entry/system, but if there is a form that was completed
in error, like the 8130-6 for instance, you may have to submit a new
one. Send me an e-mail at with your N number and
serial number and I'll look at your glider's file on Monday, I may see
something there that is causing them to identify it as AMA, but I
suspect it's just a mistake.

It will take them a while to fix it, months at least, but they will
eventually get it done, maybe.

Yeah, my registry (experimental) entry says None for engine and
Exhibition instead of AMA, so like I Always say, it's (I'm?) not always
consistent ;-)

Rgds,

Jim

[chipsoars]

I hate ask what is could be construed as a dumb question, esp. on RAS,
but what does the Mode S code in the in the Aircraft Description
section mean? I know our 27 doesn't have a transponder.

[Bruce]

jphoenix wrote:
> Ha! I used the Always word again.
>
> I'm never gonna to learn.
>
> Jim
>
One always wonders.

--
Bruce Greeff
Std Cirrus #57
I'm no-T at the address above.

[Eric Greenwell]

Recently, us owners of Schleicher ASH 26 E motorgliders discovered we
were all listed as single engine airplanes! Definitely a glitch that
occurred in the last year, as best I can tell, because my registration
info used to be correct. Anyway, a couple of us sent emails to the
contact listed on the FAA registration page, and 2-3 weeks later, the
error was corrected for all of them. No forms had to be filled out,
perhaps because it was generic problem for the 26, not a specific
glider's problem.

The manufacturer is still listed in varying forms, but I think Jim's
explanation probably applies to our situation as well. I don't worry
about that, but being listed as an airplane could lead to problems. So,
everyone with a US registered aircraft, check it out!

jcarlyle wrote:
> Thanks for the replies, Chris and Jim. For the record, my Schleicher
> ASW-19B is Type Certificated. It's disconcerting that the FAA
> officially documents it as having an amateur built, experimental
> engine, because there is no STC! I once worked for a huge US
> bureaucracy that believed their paperwork rather than their victim's
> lyin' eyes, so I have visions of undergoing the mother of all ramp
> checks someday! Jim, can I have a contact number? <grin>
>
> Seriously, Jim, is there no way of getting these engine entries
> changed? I checked a couple of ASW-19 registrations; it was split 50/50
> between NONE in Engine Manufacturer and Engine Model, and AMA/EXPR and
> UNKNOWN ENG like I have. Some were registered correctly years before
> mine, and others correctly within a few months of mine. It almost seems
> like a typo, which should be easily correctable (he said naively). Like
> I said, I'm worried about undergoing the mother of all ramp checks...
>
> On the other subject, I did check the status of my registration - it
> says "valid". I agree with Jim, this is something that all US owners
> should check out. AOPA has been putting out bulletins on this, too, so
> it's clearly an area of active concern to the FAA, meaning that people
> should take it seriously.
>
> -John
>


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[jphoenix]

All US registered aircraft have a Mode S code, it is also written on
your registration card. If you ever install a Mode S transponder; ATC
will know who you are, what you're flying, your N number, your
political affiliation, left-handed or right-handed, IFR equipped and if
you've made any international telephone calls to Osama - without you
telling ATC over the VHF. ;-)

Gotta go put the landing gear back in the Nimbus and stop all this
humorous typing.

Jim