OT - Best Business Credit Card?

[Jay Honeck]

We've had a company VISA card for many years. It has no annual fees, we
never pay interest -- but we also don't "get" anything out of using it,
either. In the past we've bumped up against the credit limit during the
month, and the company (now called "Chase") has been very slow to increase
the limit. Although they always responded by increasing it as needed,
their recalcitrance to do so has been a mild aggravation.

Now that we've been incorporated in Iowa for over eight years, we're getting
bombarded with dozens of offers for business cards. (8 years must be a
"magic number" for them, like 5000 feet is for runways...) Almost all of
these cards offer "rewards" that vary from "Frequent flyer miles" to
discounts on all sorts of things. Interestingly, almost all the new offers
START with a higher credit limit than our current card offers.

Whose is best? What card do you guys use?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Cal Vanize]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> We've had a company VISA card for many years. It has no annual fees, we
> never pay interest -- but we also don't "get" anything out of using it,
> either. In the past we've bumped up against the credit limit during the
> month, and the company (now called "Chase") has been very slow to increase
> the limit. Although they always responded by increasing it as needed,
> their recalcitrance to do so has been a mild aggravation.
>
> Now that we've been incorporated in Iowa for over eight years, we're getting
> bombarded with dozens of offers for business cards. (8 years must be a
> "magic number" for them, like 5000 feet is for runways...) Almost all of
> these cards offer "rewards" that vary from "Frequent flyer miles" to
> discounts on all sorts of things. Interestingly, almost all the new offers
> START with a higher credit limit than our current card offers.
>
> Whose is best? What card do you guys use?

If its a business-use only card, then Citi or Chase have good MasterCard
Business Card plans.

If there is a requirement for business use MIS reporting, then Citi
Business MasterCard or American Express Business cards are good.

I'm not a fan of Visa or the plans offered by their banks.

[AES]

In article <raRAf.750624$xm3.129206@attbi_s21>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

>
> Whose is best? What card do you guys use?
> --

AmEx for personal and personal consulting business purchases where I
need a record, because of

* Fairly detailed itemization on bills
* Fairly wide acceptance (overseas and online)
* I have some trust in them

Discover Card for routine personal purchases where record keeping is not
required (although they do supply an itemized monthly statement),
because of a percentage rebate on purchases, which can be take as *cash*
(i.e., a refund check), or applied to subsequent bills.

Don't waste time on any card that offers "discounts" or "credits"
against various assorted "discounted" products which are either (a)
stuff you don't want anyway, or (b) (more often) marked up versions,
often under a slightly modified product number, of items you can buy for
less that the discounted card price in Costco or Walmart anyway.

[Martin Hotze]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 12:47:49 -0800, AES wrote:

>* Fairly wide acceptance (overseas and online)

where overseas? not in Europe, IMHO.

#m
--
If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh?
If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?
W. Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice, Act III, scene I

[Rachel]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> We've had a company VISA card for many years. It has no annual fees, we
> never pay interest -- but we also don't "get" anything out of using it,
> either. In the past we've bumped up against the credit limit during the
> month, and the company (now called "Chase") has been very slow to increase
> the limit. Although they always responded by increasing it as needed,
> their recalcitrance to do so has been a mild aggravation.
>
> Now that we've been incorporated in Iowa for over eight years, we're getting
> bombarded with dozens of offers for business cards. (8 years must be a
> "magic number" for them, like 5000 feet is for runways...) Almost all of
> these cards offer "rewards" that vary from "Frequent flyer miles" to
> discounts on all sorts of things. Interestingly, almost all the new offers
> START with a higher credit limit than our current card offers.
>
> Whose is best? What card do you guys use?

American Expresss, hands down. I use their personal card, but both my
brother and father have the company card, and love it.

[Jay Honeck]

> American Express, hands down. I use their personal card, but both my
> brother and father have the company card, and love it.

Too few businesses accept AMEX for me to consider them. They also extort
more money from the vendors -- which is why we threw them out of the hotel
back in 2002. Even Walgreen's threw them out of all 14,000+ stores in the
U.S. because of their absurdly high rates.

IMHO, unless they change their business model, they will follow "Diner's
Club" into the ash heap of CC history.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Rachel]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>American Express, hands down. I use their personal card, but both my
>>brother and father have the company card, and love it.
>
>
> Too few businesses accept AMEX for me to consider them. They also extort
> more money from the vendors -- which is why we threw them out of the hotel
> back in 2002. Even Walgreen's threw them out of all 14,000+ stores in the
> U.S. because of their absurdly high rates.
>
> IMHO, unless they change their business model, they will follow "Diner's
> Club" into the ash heap of CC history.

I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine. Personally, I'll
take my business elsewhere if someone doesn't take it...I'd rather use
it than my Visa debit card.

[Jay Honeck]

> I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine. Personally, I'll
> take my business elsewhere if someone doesn't take it...I'd rather use it
> than my Visa debit card.

Apples and oranges.

What's the advantage of AMEX over Visa *credit*, in your mind?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Sylvain]

Rachel wrote:
>>> American Express, hands down.
> I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine.

do you travel abroad much? I got rid off my amex years
ago because of that; and in many situations/places, taking
your business elsewhere is not an option...

--Sylvain

[Rachel]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine. Personally, I'll
>>take my business elsewhere if someone doesn't take it...I'd rather use it
>>than my Visa debit card.
>
>
> Apples and oranges.
>
> What's the advantage of AMEX over Visa *credit*, in your mind?

Points. My brother somehow managed to get two free airline tickets in
just under a year.

Actually, with my USAA Visa debit card I get cash back at the end of the
year. Sometimes it's though deciding which card to use. However, since
most people aren't eligible to join USAA, I recommend Amex.

[Rachel]

Sylvain wrote:
> Rachel wrote:
>
>>>> American Express, hands down.
>>
>> I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine.
>
>
> do you travel abroad much? I got rid off my amex years
> ago because of that; and in many situations/places, taking
> your business elsewhere is not an option...
>
> --Sylvain

International travel is what I use the debit card for.

[Rachel]

Rachel wrote:
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
<snip>
>>
>> What's the advantage of AMEX over Visa *credit*, in your mind?
>
>
> Points. My brother somehow managed to get two free airline tickets in
> just under a year.
>
> Actually, with my USAA Visa debit card I get cash back at the end of the
> year. Sometimes it's though deciding which card to use. However, since
> most people aren't eligible to join USAA, I recommend Amex.

Er, USAA Mastercard, actually. I stopped using my Navy Federal Visa
(credit) for the most part years ago after the customer service went south.

[Darkwing]

"Rachel" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>>>American Express, hands down. I use their personal card, but both my
>>>brother and father have the company card, and love it.
>>
>>
>> Too few businesses accept AMEX for me to consider them. They also extort
>> more money from the vendors -- which is why we threw them out of the
>> hotel back in 2002. Even Walgreen's threw them out of all 14,000+ stores
>> in the U.S. because of their absurdly high rates.
>>
>> IMHO, unless they change their business model, they will follow "Diner's
>> Club" into the ash heap of CC history.
>
> I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine. Personally, I'll
> take my business elsewhere if someone doesn't take it...I'd rather use it
> than my Visa debit card.


I don't take them. They charge us to much for the honor of taking their
card. AmEx users are like a cult though, I've had a handful of people not do
business with us because we won't take AmEx, pretty odd....

------------------------------------------------
DW

[Rachel]

Darkwing wrote:
> "Rachel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Jay Honeck wrote:
>>
>>>>American Express, hands down. I use their personal card, but both my
>>>>brother and father have the company card, and love it.
>>>
>>>
>>>Too few businesses accept AMEX for me to consider them. They also extort
>>>more money from the vendors -- which is why we threw them out of the
>>>hotel back in 2002. Even Walgreen's threw them out of all 14,000+ stores
>>>in the U.S. because of their absurdly high rates.
>>>
>>>IMHO, unless they change their business model, they will follow "Diner's
>>>Club" into the ash heap of CC history.
>>
>>I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine. Personally, I'll
>>take my business elsewhere if someone doesn't take it...I'd rather use it
>>than my Visa debit card.
>
>
>
> I don't take them. They charge us to much for the honor of taking their
> card. AmEx users are like a cult though, I've had a handful of people not do
> business with us because we won't take AmEx, pretty odd....
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> DW

Not a cult...there are just some places I'd rather not brandish
something that says USAA on it.

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> We've had a company VISA card for many years. Whose is best? What card
> do you guys use?
\
You will find that if you get aggressive on the phone with a real person, if
you tell a company that another company has offered xyz, the current company
will match the deal, when you tell them that you are going to change to the
other card, because they are not giving you xyz.

Try it - it works.

You can get damn near anything, just by the asking.
--
Jim in NC

[Cal Vanize]

Rachel wrote:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> We've had a company VISA card for many years. It has no annual fees,
>> we never pay interest -- but we also don't "get" anything out of using
>> it, either. In the past we've bumped up against the credit limit
>> during the month, and the company (now called "Chase") has been very
>> slow to increase the limit. Although they always responded by
>> increasing it as needed, their recalcitrance to do so has been a mild
>> aggravation.
>>
>> Now that we've been incorporated in Iowa for over eight years, we're
>> getting bombarded with dozens of offers for business cards. (8 years
>> must be a "magic number" for them, like 5000 feet is for runways...)
>> Almost all of these cards offer "rewards" that vary from "Frequent
>> flyer miles" to discounts on all sorts of things. Interestingly,
>> almost all the new offers START with a higher credit limit than our
>> current card offers.
>>
>> Whose is best? What card do you guys use?
>
>
> American Expresss, hands down. I use their personal card, but both my
> brother and father have the company card, and love it.


The question was which is "BEST" instead of which one is worst.
American Express has limited acceptance.

[Cal Vanize]

AES wrote:

> In article <raRAf.750624$xm3.129206@attbi_s21>,
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>
>>Whose is best? What card do you guys use?
>>--
>
>
> AmEx for personal and personal consulting business purchases where I
> need a record, because of
>
> * Fairly detailed itemization on bills
> * Fairly wide acceptance (overseas and online)
> * I have some trust in them
>
> Discover Card for routine personal purchases where record keeping is not
> required (although they do supply an itemized monthly statement),
> because of a percentage rebate on purchases, which can be take as *cash*
> (i.e., a refund check), or applied to subsequent bills.
>
> Don't waste time on any card that offers "discounts" or "credits"
> against various assorted "discounted" products which are either (a)
> stuff you don't want anyway, or (b) (more often) marked up versions,
> often under a slightly modified product number, of items you can buy for
> less that the discounted card price in Costco or Walmart anyway.

Try to find merchants that accept Discover outside the states.

[Morgans]

"Rachel" > wrote

> Er, USAA Mastercard, actually. I stopped using my Navy Federal Visa
> (credit) for the most part years ago after the customer service went
> south.

That is my first choice, also. For those that are eligible, their auto
insurance is also first rate, with customer service still in the US, and
good rates.

To be eligible, if you father, spouse, spouse's father, almost any of those
types of combination makes you eligible. Check into it, everyone.
--
Jim in NC

[Cal Vanize]

Rachel wrote:

> Sylvain wrote:
>
>> Rachel wrote:
>>
>>>>> American Express, hands down.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine.
>>
>>
>>
>> do you travel abroad much? I got rid off my amex years
>> ago because of that; and in many situations/places, taking
>> your business elsewhere is not an option...
>>
>> --Sylvain
>
>
> International travel is what I use the debit card for.


"Float" has more meanings that being lighter than air or water.

[Rachel]

Cal Vanize wrote:
> Rachel wrote:
<snip>
>
> The question was which is "BEST" instead of which one is worst.

A simple "I don't like it much" would have been a lot less insulting.
What works for me obviously doesn't work for you.

[Rachel]

Morgans wrote:
>
> "Rachel" > wrote
>
>> Er, USAA Mastercard, actually. I stopped using my Navy Federal Visa
>> (credit) for the most part years ago after the customer service went
>> south.
>
>
> That is my first choice, also. For those that are eligible, their auto
> insurance is also first rate, with customer service still in the US, and
> good rates.
>
> To be eligible, if you father, spouse, spouse's father, almost any of
> those types of combination makes you eligible. Check into it, everyone.

I could go on for hours about USAA...have had auto insurance with them
for years, and their bank got my mortgage done in two and a half weeks,
something the title company had never seen before. :-) I've only
recently used their banking, but have been happy with it. Apparently
their insurance rates aren't as low as they used to be, but the customer
service more than makes up for it.

[Rachel]

Cal Vanize wrote:
> Rachel wrote:
>
>> Sylvain wrote:
>>
>>> Rachel wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> American Express, hands down.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> do you travel abroad much? I got rid off my amex years
>>> ago because of that; and in many situations/places, taking
>>> your business elsewhere is not an option...
>>>
>>> --Sylvain
>>
>>
>>
>> International travel is what I use the debit card for.
>
>
>
> "Float" has more meanings that being lighter than air or water.

Excuse me? I don't float checks and never have. What is your real issue?

[Rachel]

Cal Vanize wrote:
> Rachel wrote:
>
>> Sylvain wrote:
>>
>>> Rachel wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> American Express, hands down.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> do you travel abroad much? I got rid off my amex years
>>> ago because of that; and in many situations/places, taking
>>> your business elsewhere is not an option...
>>>
>>> --Sylvain
>>
>>
>>
>> International travel is what I use the debit card for.
>
>
>
> "Float" has more meanings that being lighter than air or water.

Just because you are in financial trouble and have to float checks
doesn't mean everyone else does. I've never floated a check and never
will.

[Gerry Caron]

"Rachel" > wrote in message
. ..
> Morgans wrote:
>>
>> "Rachel" > wrote
>>
>>> Er, USAA Mastercard, actually. I stopped using my Navy Federal Visa
>>> (credit) for the most part years ago after the customer service went
>>> south.
>>
>>
>> That is my first choice, also. For those that are eligible, their auto
>> insurance is also first rate, with customer service still in the US, and
>> good rates.
>>
>> To be eligible, if you father, spouse, spouse's father, almost any of
>> those types of combination makes you eligible. Check into it, everyone.
>
> I could go on for hours about USAA...have had auto insurance with them for
> years, and their bank got my mortgage done in two and a half weeks,
> something the title company had never seen before. :-) I've only recently
> used their banking, but have been happy with it. Apparently their
> insurance rates aren't as low as they used to be, but the customer service
> more than makes up for it.

USAA Bank services are available to anyone. It's just their insurance
services that are limited to members. Great service and reasonable rates.
I've been a member for 28+ years.

Gerry

[Rachel]

Gerry Caron wrote:
> "Rachel" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>Morgans wrote:
>>
>>>"Rachel" > wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>Er, USAA Mastercard, actually. I stopped using my Navy Federal Visa
>>>>(credit) for the most part years ago after the customer service went
>>>>south.
>>>
>>>
>>>That is my first choice, also. For those that are eligible, their auto
>>>insurance is also first rate, with customer service still in the US, and
>>>good rates.
>>>
>>>To be eligible, if you father, spouse, spouse's father, almost any of
>>>those types of combination makes you eligible. Check into it, everyone.
>>
>>I could go on for hours about USAA...have had auto insurance with them for
>>years, and their bank got my mortgage done in two and a half weeks,
>>something the title company had never seen before. :-) I've only recently
>>used their banking, but have been happy with it. Apparently their
>>insurance rates aren't as low as they used to be, but the customer service
>>more than makes up for it.
>
>
> USAA Bank services are available to anyone. It's just their insurance
> services that are limited to members. Great service and reasonable rates.
> I've been a member for 28+ years.
>
> Gerry

Even loans? My brother was denied a mortgage because of a computer
glitch that said he wasn't a member.

[Gerry Caron]

"Rachel" > wrote in message
...
> Gerry Caron wrote:
>>
>> USAA Bank services are available to anyone. It's just their insurance
>> services that are limited to members. Great service and reasonable
>> rates. I've been a member for 28+ years.
>>
>> Gerry
>
> Even loans? My brother was denied a mortgage because of a computer glitch
> that said he wasn't a member.

USAA Federal Savings Bank as a FSB cannot restrict it's business to specific
groups. Mortgages are not offered thru the FSB, (my USAA mortgage is thru
PHH Mortgage) so it can be restricted.

USAA does try hard to limit its Bank customers to its traditional
membership. If you go thru the web and answer their eligibility questions
and don't fit one of their categories, it will tell you to call. Call the
number and specifically ask about banking. If you call the bank 800 number
and ask, they'll send you the info.

My wife got a USAA credit card back when we were dating and she had no
affiliation.

Gerry

[Cal Vanize]

Rachel wrote:

> Cal Vanize wrote:
>
>> Rachel wrote:
>>
>>> Sylvain wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rachel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> American Express, hands down.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> do you travel abroad much? I got rid off my amex years
>>>> ago because of that; and in many situations/places, taking
>>>> your business elsewhere is not an option...
>>>>
>>>> --Sylvain
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> International travel is what I use the debit card for.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Float" has more meanings that being lighter than air or water.
>
>
> Excuse me? I don't float checks and never have. What is your real issue?



My real issue? Consumer education and common sense.


Money management:

You can float purchases on credit cards until the monthly bill comes
due. Then it can be paid in full for all the previous month's purchases
even if the purchases might have been actually made over a month ago
(depending on a cardholder's "float management" and the closing date of
the billing cycle). Pay the bill in full on time and there's no
interest, monthly minimum, extra monthly fees. The banks take advantage
of those that are careless or delinquent. Pilots, by need, tend to be
very organized and should never experience this problem.

A "debit" transaction is a withdrawl from a deposit account (usually
savings or checking) and immediately pays for the transaction removing
your ability to use your money. There is absolutely no advantage to a
debit card over a cash transaction except that you don't have to carry
around cash or that you can use it on the internet (never use your PIN
on the internet).

Fraud / disputes:

In the event of fraud against your credit account, its just a matter of
disputing a transaction and its removed from your bill until the dispute
is resolved. You're not required to pay for it unless the dispute
settlement rules in favor of the merchant. It then becomes the BANK's
money involved in dispute resolution.

If there's fraud against your debit account, YOUR money is already gone
and YOU have to fight to get it back (regardless of what the
advertisements say). The dispute is over YOUR money that needs to be
REPLENISHED. You've lost control over your funds, somebody else got
their hands on YOUR money. On a PIN-based transaction verified by the
card issuer, the issuer is responsible (read "the cardholder is
liable"). There are a few exceptions, but this is generally the way it is.


That's the rules of the business (and the Fed) regardless of whether its
Visa, MasterCard, Citi, Bank of America, or Mom and Dad's State Bank and
Deluxe Chinese Buffet Catering and Vetenrary Service.

[Cal Vanize]

Rachel wrote:

> Cal Vanize wrote:
>
>> Rachel wrote:
>>
>>> Sylvain wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rachel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> American Express, hands down.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> do you travel abroad much? I got rid off my amex years
>>>> ago because of that; and in many situations/places, taking
>>>> your business elsewhere is not an option...
>>>>
>>>> --Sylvain
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> International travel is what I use the debit card for.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Float" has more meanings that being lighter than air or water.
>
>
> Just because you are in financial trouble and have to float checks
> doesn't mean everyone else does. I've never floated a check and never
> will.

If you only knew the meaning of float....

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Whose is best? What card do you guys use?

My business card is with CapitalOne. Credit line is $20,000 (that's the initial
limit; I've not had it increased). They have some sort of "miles" refund scheme.
You can cash them in on airline tickets or cash. Last year, I got over $200
back, but I have no idea how much I charged on the card. APR is 10.87%, but I
pay full balance every month. They've treated me well so far.

http://www.capitalone.com/indexa.php

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[George Patterson]

Gerry Caron wrote:

> My wife got a USAA credit card back when we were dating and she had no
> affiliation.

Got a link? "Ask Jeeves" gave me garbage.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[George Patterson]

Rachel wrote:

> Excuse me? I don't float checks and never have. What is your real issue?

I expect he means the exchange rate. If you use a credit card instead of a debit
card and the exchange rate changes in your favor while the charge is processed,
you get a break. That's not true of debit cards. Of course, if the exchange rate
changes the other way, the credit card costs you extra.

IMO, the float is not worth considering in this situation.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Flyingmonk]

George wrote:
>IMO, the float is not worth considering in this situation.

Second time I was in Thailand, wifey 'n I charged up a storm, hotels,
food, gifts, nicknack...etc.. I was expecting to come home to see a
bill of around $6k or so. Turned out the exchange rate was in our
favor like you said, George. The bill was about 5 and a half k. We
figured we saved about four -five hundred bucks over if we'd spent all
in cash.

The Monk

[Rachel]

Cal Vanize wrote:
<snip>
> If you only knew the meaning of float....

I know what float means. Frankly, your criticism of my banking habits
is uncalled for and pretty pointless. Go hound someone that actually
has credit problems and financial difficulties.

[Rachel]

Cal Vanize wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> Money management:
>
> You can float purchases on credit cards until the monthly bill comes
> due. Then it can be paid in full for all the previous month's purchases
> even if the purchases might have been actually made over a month ago
> (depending on a cardholder's "float management" and the closing date of
> the billing cycle). Pay the bill in full on time and there's no
> interest, monthly minimum, extra monthly fees. The banks take advantage
> of those that are careless or delinquent. Pilots, by need, tend to be
> very organized and should never experience this problem.
>
> A "debit" transaction is a withdrawl from a deposit account (usually
> savings or checking) and immediately pays for the transaction removing
> your ability to use your money. There is absolutely no advantage to a
> debit card over a cash transaction except that you don't have to carry
> around cash or that you can use it on the internet (never use your PIN
> on the internet).
>
> Fraud / disputes:
>
> In the event of fraud against your credit account, its just a matter of
> disputing a transaction and its removed from your bill until the dispute
> is resolved. You're not required to pay for it unless the dispute
> settlement rules in favor of the merchant. It then becomes the BANK's
> money involved in dispute resolution.
>
> If there's fraud against your debit account, YOUR money is already gone
> and YOU have to fight to get it back (regardless of what the
> advertisements say). The dispute is over YOUR money that needs to be
> REPLENISHED. You've lost control over your funds, somebody else got
> their hands on YOUR money. On a PIN-based transaction verified by the
> card issuer, the issuer is responsible (read "the cardholder is
> liable"). There are a few exceptions, but this is generally the way it is.
>
>
> That's the rules of the business (and the Fed) regardless of whether its
> Visa, MasterCard, Citi, Bank of America, or Mom and Dad's State Bank and
> Deluxe Chinese Buffet Catering and Vetenrary Service.

And your point is? I dislike credit cards. I see no reason to buy
something that you can't afford at that point in time. I use a debit
card and American Express card (which is NOT a credit card). I know
exactly what I'm doing. What's it to you? No one made you the educator
of the masses (especially when the masses already know about finances).

[Gerry Caron]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:PDWAf.2692$Jn1.719@trndny01...
> Gerry Caron wrote:
>
>> My wife got a USAA credit card back when we were dating and she had no
>> affiliation.
>
> Got a link? "Ask Jeeves" gave me garbage.
>

www.usaa.com

Credit card services: 1-800-922-9092

Gerry

[Cal Vanize]

Rachel wrote:
> No one made you the educator
> of the masses (especially when the masses already know about finances).

Actually they did. Its my job to explain money management and educate
those who could do more with what they have. "The masses" as you refer
to them, have very little understanding of what's going on and get
themselves in troube all the time.

[Rachel]

Cal Vanize wrote:
>
>
> Rachel wrote:
>
>> No one made you the educator of the masses (especially when the masses
>> already know about finances).
>
>
> Actually they did. Its my job to explain money management and educate
> those who could do more with what they have. "The masses" as you refer
> to them, have very little understanding of what's going on and get
> themselves in troube all the time.

Really. I don't know anyone who has.

[Cal Vanize]

Rachel wrote:

> Cal Vanize wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Rachel wrote:
>>
>>> No one made you the educator of the masses (especially when the
>>> masses already know about finances).
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually they did. Its my job to explain money management and educate
>> those who could do more with what they have. "The masses" as you
>> refer to them, have very little understanding of what's going on and
>> get themselves in troube all the time.
>
>
> Really. I don't know anyone who has.

And you cruise a river in northern Africa.

Buh bye.

[Rachel]

Cal Vanize wrote:
>
>
> Rachel wrote:
>
>> Cal Vanize wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rachel wrote:
>>>
>>>> No one made you the educator of the masses (especially when the
>>>> masses already know about finances).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually they did. Its my job to explain money management and
>>> educate those who could do more with what they have. "The masses" as
>>> you refer to them, have very little understanding of what's going on
>>> and get themselves in troube all the time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Really. I don't know anyone who has.
>
>
> And you cruise a river in northern Africa.
>
> Buh bye.

No, I simply choose to surround myself with a certain type of people.
Sorry you can't undestand that some of us have standards.

[Jay Honeck]

>>>> Actually they did. Its my job to explain money management and educate
>>>> those who could do more with what they have. "The masses" as you refer
>>>> to them, have very little understanding of what's going on and get
>>>> themselves in troube all the time.
>>>
>>> Really. I don't know anyone who has.
>>
>> And you cruise a river in northern Africa.
>
> No, I simply choose to surround myself with a certain type of people.
> Sorry you can't undestand that some of us have standards.

Having sat on the board of directors of a credit union, and being in the
daily business of pre-authorizing people's credit cards (that's what we do
when we take your reservation), I can tell you without a doubt that credit
cards should be illegal. They are like crack cocaine to many people, and a
lot of people are getting hurt because of them. You simply would not
believe the level of debt many people carry. And it's often people you
would NEVER guess to be near bankrupt.

However, since they *are* legal, and since I, too, pay mine bill off each
month, I'm in the hunt for one that pays better rewards.

What, is a "USAA Visa" card?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> My business card is with CapitalOne. Credit line is $20,000 (that's the
> initial limit; I've not had it increased). They have some sort of "miles"
> refund scheme. You can cash them in on airline tickets or cash. Last year,
> I got over $200 back, but I have no idea how much I charged on the card.
> APR is 10.87%, but I pay full balance every month. They've treated me well
> so far.
>
> http://www.capitalone.com/indexa.php

That's one of the companies that is filling my mailbox. I've been sorely
tempted to jump -- maybe I'll call them tomorrow.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Rachel]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>>>>Actually they did. Its my job to explain money management and educate
>>>>>those who could do more with what they have. "The masses" as you refer
>>>>>to them, have very little understanding of what's going on and get
>>>>>themselves in troube all the time.
>>>>
>>>>Really. I don't know anyone who has.
>>>
>>>And you cruise a river in northern Africa.
>>
>>No, I simply choose to surround myself with a certain type of people.
>>Sorry you can't undestand that some of us have standards.
>
>
> Having sat on the board of directors of a credit union, and being in the
> daily business of pre-authorizing people's credit cards (that's what we do
> when we take your reservation), I can tell you without a doubt that credit
> cards should be illegal. They are like crack cocaine to many people, and a
> lot of people are getting hurt because of them. You simply would not
> believe the level of debt many people carry. And it's often people you
> would NEVER guess to be near bankrupt.
>
> However, since they *are* legal, and since I, too, pay mine bill off each
> month, I'm in the hunt for one that pays better rewards.
>
> What, is a "USAA Visa" card?

I mistyped, it's actually a MasterCard.

[Chris Colohan]

"Jay Honeck" > writes:

> > I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine. Personally, I'll
> > take my business elsewhere if someone doesn't take it...I'd rather use it
> > than my Visa debit card.
>
> Apples and oranges.
>
> What's the advantage of AMEX over Visa *credit*, in your mind?

Customer service. Whenever I have phoned AMEX, I got to talk to a
very friendly and knowledgeable person right away. They truely want
to help you. At _any_ hour of the day!

Whenever I have phoned Chase about my Visa card, I have been put into
the eternal hold queue, and then gotten a customer service
representative who seems to know next to nothing about the cards they
offer.

Don't get me started on Citibank. After my first encounter with their
customer service, I tore up their card and promised I would never do
business with them again.

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

[Chris Colohan]

"Darkwing" <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> writes:
> I don't take them. They charge us to much for the honor of taking their
> card. AmEx users are like a cult though, I've had a handful of people not do
> business with us because we won't take AmEx, pretty odd....

I thought AMEX charged sellers more, but in exchange didn't do
chargebacks to the seller if the user disputes the charge. So it
works out to be a wash for most sellers.

Is this not the case?

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

[Jose]

> I can tell you without a doubt that credit
> cards should be illegal. They are like
> crack cocaine to many people...

If we made illegal everything that some people couldn't handle, we
wouldn't be able to do anything.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Morgans]

"Rachel" > wrote
>
> And your point is? I dislike credit cards. I see no reason to buy
> something that you can't afford at that point in time. I use a debit card
> and American Express card (which is NOT a credit card). I know exactly
> what I'm doing. What's it to you? No one made you the educator of the
> masses (especially when the masses already know about finances).

I agree with him on this one. The protection of a credit card is hard to
beat.

AmEx is a credit card that has to be paid off every month. You can treat
any credit card the same way, and not make any purchases that you do not
have the money set aside to pay for the item when the bill comes in. Poorly
worded, but you get the idea.

I have a debit card that is linked to my checking account, as to avoid a big
charge for withdrawing cash that has already been put in the bank. That is
the only thing that it gets used for.

When it comes down to it, as long as you (and others out there) understand
the whats and whys about the different cards, it all comes down to personal
preference. Use what you like, and feel comfortable with. I'm not any
judge of that.

Live and let live? Sounds good to me.
--
Jim in NC

[Cub Driver]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:37:59 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>We've had a company VISA card for many years. It has no annual fees, we
>never pay interest -- but we also don't "get" anything out of using it,
>either. In the past we've bumped up against the credit limit during the
>month, and the company (now called "Chase") has been very slow to increase
>the limit. Although they always responded by increasing it as needed,
>their recalcitrance to do so has been a mild aggravation.

I have a corporate Chase (formerly Advanta) biz card that pays 1
percent cash back, no annual fee. $19K credit limit; I have no need of
an increase for several years.

Maybe they continued the cash-back feature for Adanta card holders?



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:28:15 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>Too few businesses accept AMEX for me to consider them. They also extort
>more money from the vendors -- which is why we threw them out of the hotel

It would be comical to carry an Amex card but refuse to take it at the
"cash" register :)



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:56:27 -0600, Rachel > wrote:

>> "Float" has more meanings that being lighter than air or water.
>
>Excuse me? I don't float checks and never have. What is your real issue?

He's suggesting that it's silly to use a debit card when you can use
the bank's money for a month or six weeks by using a credit card.

(I agree. Plus your protections tend to be greater with a credit card.
The only real purpose of a debit card is to get cash out of machine.)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:36:57 -0600, Rachel > wrote:

>And your point is? I dislike credit cards. I see no reason to buy
>something that you can't afford at that point in time. I use a debit
>card and American Express card (which is NOT a credit card).

Who says he can't afford it? Perhaps he just likes the free use of the
money.

And to say Amex is not a credit card is ridiculous. Of course it is;
it just operates a bit differently because it was there first. It
gives you credit until you pay the bill.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:31:52 -0600, Rachel > wrote:

>> If you only knew the meaning of float....
>
>I know what float means. Frankly, your criticism of my banking habits
>is uncalled for and pretty pointless. Go hound someone that actually
>has credit problems and financial difficulties.

Actually, you don't seem to. One doesn't *float* a check; one *kites*
a check.

Float a loan -- yes. Different concept.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Jay Honeck]

> I thought AMEX charged sellers more, but in exchange didn't do
> chargebacks to the seller if the user disputes the charge. So it
> works out to be a wash for most sellers.
>
> Is this not the case?

If true, that's the first I've heard of it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

>> I can tell you without a doubt that credit cards should be illegal. They
>> are like
>> crack cocaine to many people...
>
> If we made illegal everything that some people couldn't handle, we
> wouldn't be able to do anything.

I know. It's just a damned shame what giving people a line of credit can do
to their lives.

True, it's due to their own blatant stupidity -- but we *all* pay for it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Rachel]

Cub Driver wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:56:27 -0600, Rachel > wrote:
>
>
>>>"Float" has more meanings that being lighter than air or water.
>>
>>Excuse me? I don't float checks and never have. What is your real issue?
>
>
> He's suggesting that it's silly to use a debit card when you can use
> the bank's money for a month or six weeks by using a credit card.
>
> (I agree. Plus your protections tend to be greater with a credit card.
> The only real purpose of a debit card is to get cash out of machine.)

Like I said, I don't believe in buying something you can't afford at the
time. And yes, that extends to credit cards. What's the big deal? I'm
sure not missing the $2.00 a month in interest that I might be losing.

[Rachel]

Cub Driver wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:36:57 -0600, Rachel > wrote:
>
>
>>And your point is? I dislike credit cards. I see no reason to buy
>>something that you can't afford at that point in time. I use a debit
>>card and American Express card (which is NOT a credit card).
>
>
> Who says he can't afford it? Perhaps he just likes the free use of the
> money.
>
> And to say Amex is not a credit card is ridiculous. Of course it is;
> it just operates a bit differently because it was there first. It
> gives you credit until you pay the bill.

Amex is a charge card. Big difference.

[Rachel]

Cub Driver wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:31:52 -0600, Rachel > wrote:
>
>
>>>If you only knew the meaning of float....
>>
>>I know what float means. Frankly, your criticism of my banking habits
>>is uncalled for and pretty pointless. Go hound someone that actually
>>has credit problems and financial difficulties.
>
>
> Actually, you don't seem to. One doesn't *float* a check; one *kites*
> a check.
>
> Float a loan -- yes. Different concept.

Until recently with all the electronic checks, you could float a check.
For a few days at least.

[Matt Barrow]

"Cub Driver" <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:36:57 -0600, Rachel > wrote:
>
>>And your point is? I dislike credit cards. I see no reason to buy
>>something that you can't afford at that point in time. I use a debit
>>card and American Express card (which is NOT a credit card).
>
> Who says he can't afford it? Perhaps he just likes the free use of the
> money.
>
> And to say Amex is not a credit card is ridiculous. Of course it is;
> it just operates a bit differently because it was there first. It
> gives you credit until you pay the bill.
>

It's called a "CHARGE" card, not a "credit" card.

I have a Bank of America VISA, a Corporate AMEX and my BofA debit card;
never needed anything else.

The VISA has a zero balance and the AMEX is where I put all my aircraft
BUSINESS use expenses.

Matt B.

[Matt Barrow]

"Cub Driver" <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:56:27 -0600, Rachel > wrote:
>
>>> "Float" has more meanings that being lighter than air or water.
>>
>>Excuse me? I don't float checks and never have. What is your real issue?
>
> He's suggesting that it's silly to use a debit card when you can use
> the bank's money for a month or six weeks by using a credit card.
>
> (I agree. Plus your protections tend to be greater with a credit card.
> The only real purpose of a debit card is to get cash out of machine.)
>

Quite!! Using a debit card is like handing someone a roll of currency ---
ZERO protection.

[Jim]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>> American Express, hands down. I use their personal card, but both my
>> brother and father have the company card, and love it.
>
> Too few businesses accept AMEX for me to consider them. They also extort
> more money from the vendors -- which is why we threw them out of the hotel
> back in 2002. Even Walgreen's threw them out of all 14,000+ stores in the
> U.S. because of their absurdly high rates.
>
> IMHO, unless they change their business model, they will follow "Diner's
> Club" into the ash heap of CC history.

Well, not for me, Jay.

My business does not accept Amex because of the reasons you site. However,
every website and distributor I do business with accepts it. I do about
300,000k a year on my Amex.

Amex gives me a level of service not found elsewhere with detailed quarterly
management reports for all my employees, no hassle charge-backs for disputed
charges and especially their Rewards program.

I've got an excellent surround system and other cool gadgets around the
house for "free." Just 50,000 more points and I'll have enough for that
plasma TV I've been ogling for months.

Jim Fisher

[Jay Honeck]

> Amex gives me a level of service not found elsewhere with detailed
> quarterly management reports for all my employees, no hassle charge-backs
> for disputed charges and especially their Rewards program.

Can you expand on that "no-hassle charge-backs for disputed charges" thing,
Jim?

Thanks,
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jose]

> True, it's due to their own blatant stupidity -- but we *all* pay for it.

Ditto motorcycles, skydiving, and guns.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Chris Colohan]

Cub Driver <usenet AT danford DOT net> writes:

> And to say Amex is not a credit card is ridiculous. Of course it is;
> it just operates a bit differently because it was there first. It
> gives you credit until you pay the bill.

Actually, AMEX provides both credit and charge cards. For example,
the "Blue" and "Blue Cash" cards are credit cards (no need to pay the
bill in full if you want to pay stupidly high interest rates instead),
while their "Gold" card is a charge card (you must pay the bill in
full).

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

[Rachel]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>Amex gives me a level of service not found elsewhere with detailed
>>quarterly management reports for all my employees, no hassle charge-backs
>>for disputed charges and especially their Rewards program.
>
>
> Can you expand on that "no-hassle charge-backs for disputed charges" thing,
> Jim?
>
> Thanks,

From the website -

• Guaranteed Product Satisfaction — Return Protection* offers guaranteed
product satisfaction on designated items purchased entirely with an
eligible American Express® Card.
• 90 Days Protection — If you try to return an eligible item within 90
days from the date of purchase and the merchant won't take it back,
American Express will refund the full purchase price.
• Up to $300 Per Item — You are covered for up to $300 per item,
excluding shipping and handling, and up to $1,000 annually per
Cardmember account.

[Jim]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>> Amex gives me a level of service not found elsewhere with detailed
>> quarterly management reports for all my employees, no hassle charge-backs
>> for disputed charges and especially their Rewards program.
>
> Can you expand on that "no-hassle charge-backs for disputed charges"
> thing, Jim?

I've only had to use the service three times in the 13 to 15 years I've been
using Amex but there was one unauthorized charge of a thousand-something
from a store up in Boston or something. I didn't charge it. Don't know who
did. Called Amex and had the charge removed almost instantly, no questions
asked.

There were two other instances where there was a questionable charge that
was no fault of Amex. One was a "stupid tax" where I had been paying 10.00
a month for some miscellaneous computer service web thingy. I stopped using
the service but forgot to cancel the automatic draft of my Amex account
until, many months later, I examined my statement and noted it. Called
Amex, told them to disallow any further charges. They not only did that but
refunded the all the charges accrued up through those many months that I had
not used the web service thingy. It was perhaps a hundred dollars in
charges.

With all that said, I'm not stuck on Amex. If you come up with a better
deal, I'd like to hear about it . . . . After I accrue enough points to get
my plasma TV. ;)

--
Jim Fisher

[Cal Vanize]

Rachel wrote:
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>> Amex gives me a level of service not found elsewhere with detailed
>>> quarterly management reports for all my employees, no hassle
>>> charge-backs for disputed charges and especially their Rewards program.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can you expand on that "no-hassle charge-backs for disputed charges"
>> thing, Jim?
>>
>> Thanks,
>
>
> From the website -
>
> • Guaranteed Product Satisfaction — Return Protection* offers
> guaranteed product satisfaction on designated items purchased entirely
> with an eligible American Express® Card.
> • 90 Days Protection — If you try to return an eligible item
> within 90 days from the date of purchase and the merchant won't take it
> back, American Express will refund the full purchase price.
> • Up to $300 Per Item — You are covered for up to $300 per item,
> excluding shipping and handling, and up to $1,000 annually per
> Cardmember account.


AND you don't know what a chargeback is either, do you!

That's purchase return protection, not guaranteed chargeback rights.
Chargebacks are not merchandise returns!!!

[Robert Coffey]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>American Express, hands down. I use their personal card, but both my
>>brother and father have the company card, and love it.
>
>
> Too few businesses accept AMEX for me to consider them. They also extort
> more money from the vendors -- which is why we threw them out of the hotel
> back in 2002. Even Walgreen's threw them out of all 14,000+ stores in the
> U.S. because of their absurdly high rates.
>
> IMHO, unless they change their business model, they will follow "Diner's
> Club" into the ash heap of CC history.

We don't accept amex either, but don't hold your breath waiting for
their business model to collapse wreak sweet revenge for the outrageous
fees. They evidently have a niche.







Monday January 23, 6:46 PM EST

By James B. Kelleher

CHICAGO (Reuters) - American Express Co. said on Monday that its
earnings rose 13 percent in the most recent quarter, lifted by consumer
and corporate cardholder spending as well as double-digit growth in the
transaction fees its charges merchants. <snip> Even so, Groshans and
other analysts were encouraged by the growth in cards in circulation.
Over 2 million were added in the last three months alone, bringing the
total number of American Express cards in circulation to 71 million.

American Express shares closed up 4 cents at $51.44 on the New York
Stock Exchange.

American Express said its return on equity -- a key measure of
underlying profitability -- rose to 25.4 percent during the quarter, up
from 22 percent a year ago. Stripping out Ameriprise entirely, American
Express said its return on equity surged to 31.5 percent.

[JohnH]

> Whose is best? What card do you guys use?

Bank of america has a "rewards" cash back card which paid me $275 to use it
last year (a real check, not "credits"). It's also linked to my checking
account to automatically pay the balance at the last possible billing
moment, giving me free use of their money for 30 days; zero effort on my
part. Plus it offers more protection and benefits (rental car insurance,
extended product warranties etc) than a debit card.

[JohnH]

Jose wrote:
>> True, it's due to their own blatant stupidity -- but we *all* pay
>> for it.
>
> Ditto motorcycles, skydiving, and guns.

You think any of those are statistically riskier than flying small planes?

[JohnH]

> Like I said, I don't believe in buying something you can't afford at
> the time. And yes, that extends to credit cards. What's the big
> deal? I'm sure not missing the $2.00 a month in interest that I
> might be losing.

You must be brand new to the wonderful world of credit cards. No decent
card charges interest if paid in full by the due date, usually 30 days after
the purchase. This free use of the bank's money is called "float". Plus,
THEY assume liablilty for fraud (as opposed to your debit card).

[Rachel]

JohnH wrote:
> Jose wrote:
>
>>>True, it's due to their own blatant stupidity -- but we *all* pay
>>>for it.
>>
>>Ditto motorcycles, skydiving, and guns.
>
>
> You think any of those are statistically riskier than flying small planes?

My disabling fear of heights is telling me that skydiving is.

[Rachel]

JohnH wrote:
>>Like I said, I don't believe in buying something you can't afford at
>>the time. And yes, that extends to credit cards. What's the big
>>deal? I'm sure not missing the $2.00 a month in interest that I
>>might be losing.
>
>
> You must be brand new to the wonderful world of credit cards. No decent
> card charges interest if paid in full by the due date, usually 30 days after
> the purchase. This free use of the bank's money is called "float". Plus,
> THEY assume liablilty for fraud (as opposed to your debit card).

Brand new? I'm only 25, but I've been using them since I was 18. That
mght be brand new by YOUR standards, but I can assure you, I know what
I'm doing. And my credit score backs up that statement.

[Jose]

> You think any of those are statistically riskier than flying small planes?

No, but that wasn't my point. My point was that it's a Bad Idea to ban
things just because some people can't handle them.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[JohnH]

> My disabling fear of heights is telling me that skydiving is.

It's only the last few feet you need to be concerned about ;)

[Rachel]

JohnH wrote:
>>My disabling fear of heights is telling me that skydiving is.
>
>
> It's only the last few feet you need to be concerned about ;)

Oh, I don't have to be concerned about any of it!

[JohnH]

> We don't accept amex either, but don't hold your breath waiting for
> their business model to collapse wreak sweet revenge for the
> outrageous fees. They evidently have a niche.

There was literally a line at the AMEX signup booth in the ATL airport this
morning. Those shiny steel coffee mugs they were giving away were reeling
them in like flies to a cow pie.

[JohnH]

Jose wrote:
>> You think any of those are statistically riskier than flying small
>> planes?
>
> No, but that wasn't my point. My point was that it's a Bad Idea to
> ban things just because some people can't handle them.

Hmm - I missed that. I haven't noticed people trying to ban motorcycles or
skydiving. Guns and small planes, yes ;)

[Cal Vanize]

Rachel wrote:

> JohnH wrote:
>
>>> Like I said, I don't believe in buying something you can't afford at
>>> the time. And yes, that extends to credit cards. What's the big
>>> deal? I'm sure not missing the $2.00 a month in interest that I
>>> might be losing.
>>
>>
>>
>> You must be brand new to the wonderful world of credit cards. No
>> decent card charges interest if paid in full by the due date, usually
>> 30 days after the purchase. This free use of the bank's money is
>> called "float". Plus, THEY assume liablilty for fraud (as opposed to
>> your debit card).
>
>
> Brand new? I'm only 25, but I've been using them since I was 18. That
> mght be brand new by YOUR standards, but I can assure you, I know what
> I'm doing. And my credit score backs up that statement.

Thank you explaining all your previous posts.

You should ignore all suggestions by those with insider information and
experience equal to your age and keep doing exactly what you're doing now.

[Rachel]

JohnH wrote:
> Jose wrote:
>
>>>You think any of those are statistically riskier than flying small
>>>planes?
>>
>>No, but that wasn't my point. My point was that it's a Bad Idea to
>>ban things just because some people can't handle them.
>
>
> Hmm - I missed that. I haven't noticed people trying to ban motorcycles or
> skydiving. Guns and small planes, yes ;)

That's because we're loud, if you've noticed the most recent complaint
here. :-)

[JohnH]

> Brand new? I'm only 25, but I've been using them since I was 18.
> That mght be brand new by YOUR standards, but I can assure you, I
> know what I'm doing. And my credit score backs up that statement.

Unfortunately yes, that is relatively brand new to me :( ;)

But responsible use of a credit card (as opposed to a debit card) will
actually improve your credit score, as it proves to potential lenders you
can responsibly make payments - so there is yet another valid reason to use
them in lieu of a debit card.

[Rachel]

JohnH wrote:
>>Brand new? I'm only 25, but I've been using them since I was 18.
>>That mght be brand new by YOUR standards, but I can assure you, I
>>know what I'm doing. And my credit score backs up that statement.
>
>
> Unfortunately yes, that is relatively brand new to me :( ;)
>
> But responsible use of a credit card (as opposed to a debit card) will
> actually improve your credit score, as it proves to potential lenders you
> can responsibly make payments - so there is yet another valid reason to use
> them in lieu of a debit card.

I don't know, I've noticed my credit score increasing quite nicely
because of my automatic mortgage payment. That's more than I put on the
debit card every month. Ok, and I pay off a mortgage sized Home Depot
credit card bill every month, as well. That doesn't hurt my score
either. Point is, I've made an educated decision about my finances and
my credit. Those who criticize my lack of a general credit card would
do well to take their criticisms to people who actually have credit issues.

[Cal Vanize]

Rachel wrote:
> JohnH wrote:
>
>>> Brand new? I'm only 25, but I've been using them since I was 18.
>>> That mght be brand new by YOUR standards, but I can assure you, I
>>> know what I'm doing. And my credit score backs up that statement.
>>
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately yes, that is relatively brand new to me :( ;)
>>
>> But responsible use of a credit card (as opposed to a debit card) will
>> actually improve your credit score, as it proves to potential lenders
>> you can responsibly make payments - so there is yet another valid
>> reason to use them in lieu of a debit card.
>
>
> I don't know, I've noticed my credit score increasing quite nicely
> because of my automatic mortgage payment. That's more than I put on the
> debit card every month. Ok, and I pay off a mortgage sized Home Depot
> credit card bill every month, as well. That doesn't hurt my score
> either. Point is, I've made an educated decision about my finances and
> my credit. Those who criticize my lack of a general credit card would
> do well to take their criticisms to people who actually have credit issues.

You're the expert.

[Dan Youngquist]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006, Jay Honeck wrote:

> Almost all of these cards offer "rewards" that vary from "Frequent flyer
> miles" to discounts on all sorts of things.

Don't forget, the "rewards" the business cards offer come out of the
pockets of the merchants from whom you buy. Merchants get charged a
significantly higher rate for accepting business cards than for regular
cards.

If you want free stuff, use Discover. They charge merchants about the
same or less than Visa/Mastercard, and still manage to give you back a
percentage of your purchases.

-Dan

[Cal Vanize]

Dan Youngquist wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006, Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> Almost all of these cards offer "rewards" that vary from "Frequent
>> flyer miles" to discounts on all sorts of things.
>
>
> Don't forget, the "rewards" the business cards offer come out of the
> pockets of the merchants from whom you buy. Merchants get charged a
> significantly higher rate for accepting business cards than for regular
> cards.

No they don't.

>
> If you want free stuff, use Discover. They charge merchants about the
> same or less than Visa/Mastercard, and still manage to give you back a
> percentage of your purchases.
>
> -Dan


Visa / MasterCard don't charge merchants anything. Its the banks that
charge their merchant customers. There is an interchange fee that the
merchant's bank pays the card issuer's bank. The merchant bank marks up
this charge based on the cost of processing, the risk presented by the
merchant and some profit. That is the fee paid by the merchant.

[George Patterson]

Cal Vanize wrote:
>
> Dan Youngquist wrote:
>
>> Don't forget, the "rewards" the business cards offer come out of the
>> pockets of the merchants from whom you buy. Merchants get charged a
>> significantly higher rate for accepting business cards than for
>> regular cards.
>
> No they don't.

They may. A hardware store where I do much of my business shopping has to pay a
premium of $500/month to accept business charge cards. As I understand it, this
fee is charged by the card processing agency, not the main Visa organization.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Jose]

> has to pay a premium of $500/month to accept business charge cards.

There are different rules for "business charge cards" than for "personal
charge cards"?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[George Patterson]

Jose wrote:
>> has to pay a premium of $500/month to accept business charge cards.
>
> There are different rules for "business charge cards" than for "personal
> charge cards"?

That's what the man said. If he takes business cards, his processing company
charges him an extra $500 a month.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:F_BBf.7894$zh2.2547@trnddc01...
> Cal Vanize wrote:
>> Dan Youngquist wrote:
>>
>>> Don't forget, the "rewards" the business cards offer come out of the
>>> pockets of the merchants from whom you buy. Merchants get charged a
>>> significantly higher rate for accepting business cards than for regular
>>> cards.
>>
>> No they don't.
>
> They may. A hardware store where I do much of my business shopping has to
> pay a premium of $500/month to accept business charge cards. As I
> understand it, this fee is charged by the card processing agency, not the
> main Visa organization.
>
> George Patterson
> Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
> your slightly older self.

If that is the case they really need to get a new processing agency.

[George Patterson]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

> If that is the case they really need to get a new processing agency.

They were exploring that possibility when I last spoke with them.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Dan Youngquist]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Jose wrote:

>> has to pay a premium of $500/month to accept business charge cards.
>
> There are different rules for "business charge cards" than for "personal
> charge cards"?

Not different rules, but different rates. If memory serves, without
taking the time to look it up, I pay 1%-1.5% more to process a sale on a
"business" card than on a personal card, all else being equal. I've got
quotes for merchant services from a number of different processors in
recent years, and they're all about the same in this regard. I have no
way of knowing whether it's a business card, and I don't think I'd be
allowed to distinguish even if I knew, so I have to pass this extra cost
on to all customers equally. So in reality, it's not really the merchant
who pays for those business card freebies, it's all the other customers.

If a merchant is paying the same rate for business cards as for others,
then I'd suggest he's paying too much as a base rate. I've never heard of
anything like the $500/mo to accept business cards, but that's one of
those things that would make me run, not walk, away from a processor.

-Dan

[Jim]

"Cal Vanize" > wrote in message
> AND you don't know what a chargeback is either, do you!
>
> That's purchase return protection, not guaranteed chargeback rights.
> Chargebacks are not merchandise returns!!!

Cheezewhiz, man. Why you being such as asshole to the lady? Chargeback,
smargeback, reverse charges, whatever, Amex makes it easy for me. If you
don't like it, who really gives a damn?

Man . . .

Jim Fisher

[Longworth]

Jay Honeck wrote:
..
>
> Whose is best? What card do you guys use?
>

I had just discovered an unauthorized paypal charge against my AMEX
for $1,877.82. I call their 1-800 number, got connected to a real
person right away and the issue got resolved immediately. They will
dispute the charge with the merchant. They told me to ingore the
charge when it shows up in my statement (I found it while checking
online - the charge was made on 1/14) and just deduct the entire amount
from my payment. The card was immediately canceled and they will issue
a new card in few weeks. Interestingly enough, I logged on my paypal
account and could not find this unauthorized charge. It appeared that
the identity thief had opened his/her own paypal account using my AMEX.

Few years ago, I had to dispute a series of small fraudulent
charges against my Mastercard over a period of 6 months. The crook was
clever enough to charge a small amount $19.99 and $49.99. The charges
were removed but I had to send in some statements etc. As I recalled,
it was a lengthly wait to speak to a customer rep. Since then, I
scrutinize all charges in my statements, big or small.

This AMEX is a cash back credit card with 1 to 5% back for
supermaket, gas stations, drugstores purchases and 0.5 to 1.5% back for
other purchases.

Bottom line is that I am quite happy with our main card, the AMEX.
I use AOPA MBNA card for avgas purchase and only use capitalone Visa
card for other purchases where AMEX is not accepted.

Hai Longworth

[JohnH]

> This AMEX is a cash back credit card with 1 to 5% back for
> supermaket, gas stations, drugstores purchases and 0.5 to 1.5% back
> for other purchases.
>

Do they have a yearly fee?

[Longworth]

I have never owned a credit card with yearly fee. BTW, the AMEX
cash back is automatically credited to my account. I am not sure of the
frequency but every so often, I would see few hundred dollars being
credited to the account.

Hai Longworth

[Jay Honeck]

>> Can you expand on that "no-hassle charge-backs for disputed charges"
>> thing, Jim?
>
> I've only had to use the service three times in the 13 to 15 years I've
> been using Amex but there was one unauthorized charge of a
> thousand-something from a store up in Boston or something. I didn't
> charge it. Don't know who did. Called Amex and had the charge removed
> almost instantly, no questions asked.

I'm such a doofus. I read your post as meaning that as an AMEX VENDOR I was
protected against bogus charge-backs.

You actually meant (and said) that as an AMEX CARD-HOLDER I was protected
against bogus charges.

The former is unheard of; the latter is common to every credit card I've
known. Ya got me all excited for a minute, thinking that I might be
protected against fraudulent charge-backs...

Thanks for the clarification.

(And hey, it's good to see you back on the 'groups!)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Bank of america has a "rewards" cash back card which paid me $275 to use
> it last year (a real check, not "credits"). It's also linked to my
> checking account to automatically pay the balance at the last possible
> billing moment, giving me free use of their money for 30 days; zero effort
> on my part.


Oooooo...I *like* that "auto-pay-at-the-last-minute" deal. That's a great
idea!

If nothing else, I'm getting some good ideas on what to demand from Chase
Visa... Thanks!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

>> There are different rules for "business charge cards" than for "personal
>> charge cards"?
>
> That's what the man said. If he takes business cards, his processing
> company charges him an extra $500 a month.

Yes, there are a number of different "rules" (Read: "Charges") for us when
accepting different types of credit cards.

The worst of all is a foreign credit card. We get a fair number of foreign
guests, through the University, and I always cringe when they whip out their
credit cards. It can cost me DOUBLE the normal "discount rate" (Read:
"Charges") to accept one of those.

I don't believe the "$500 per month fee", though. Unless he's figured out
what the added charges are costing him in an average month?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> I don't believe the "$500 per month fee", though. Unless he's figured out
> what the added charges are costing him in an average month?

Just telling you what the man said. This is a monthly fee in addition to the
usual percentage costs.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Jessica Winston]

Rachel wrote:

> Cal Vanize wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > Money management:
> >
> > You can float purchases on credit cards until the monthly bill comes
> > due. Then it can be paid in full for all the previous month's purchases
> > even if the purchases might have been actually made over a month ago
> > (depending on a cardholder's "float management" and the closing date of
> > the billing cycle). Pay the bill in full on time and there's no
> > interest, monthly minimum, extra monthly fees. The banks take advantage
> > of those that are careless or delinquent. Pilots, by need, tend to be
> > very organized and should never experience this problem.
> >
> > A "debit" transaction is a withdrawl from a deposit account (usually
> > savings or checking) and immediately pays for the transaction removing
> > your ability to use your money. There is absolutely no advantage to a
> > debit card over a cash transaction except that you don't have to carry
> > around cash or that you can use it on the internet (never use your PIN
> > on the internet).
> >
> > Fraud / disputes:
> >
> > In the event of fraud against your credit account, its just a matter of
> > disputing a transaction and its removed from your bill until the dispute
> > is resolved. You're not required to pay for it unless the dispute
> > settlement rules in favor of the merchant. It then becomes the BANK's
> > money involved in dispute resolution.
> >
> > If there's fraud against your debit account, YOUR money is already gone
> > and YOU have to fight to get it back (regardless of what the
> > advertisements say). The dispute is over YOUR money that needs to be
> > REPLENISHED. You've lost control over your funds, somebody else got
> > their hands on YOUR money. On a PIN-based transaction verified by the
> > card issuer, the issuer is responsible (read "the cardholder is
> > liable"). There are a few exceptions, but this is generally the way it is.
> >
> >
> > That's the rules of the business (and the Fed) regardless of whether its
> > Visa, MasterCard, Citi, Bank of America, or Mom and Dad's State Bank and
> > Deluxe Chinese Buffet Catering and Vetenrary Service.
>
> And your point is? I dislike credit cards. I see no reason to buy
> something that you can't afford at that point in time.

Using a credit card does not mean that you can't afford to buy the item at that
point in time.

> I use a debit card and American Express card (which is NOT a credit card). I
> know exactly what I'm doing. What's it to you?

Same as it is to you I guess.

> No one made you the educator
> of the masses (especially when the masses already know about finances).

Apparently they reserved that job for you?

[Rachel]

Jessica Winston wrote:
> Rachel wrote:
>
>
>>Cal Vanize wrote:
>>
>><snip>

>
>>No one made you the educator
>>of the masses (especially when the masses already know about finances).
>
>
> Apparently they reserved that job for you?

I was responding to a question, not giving anyone financial advice.
Perhaps you missed that post?

[Jessica Winston]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> >>>> Actually they did. Its my job to explain money management and educate
> >>>> those who could do more with what they have. "The masses" as you refer
> >>>> to them, have very little understanding of what's going on and get
> >>>> themselves in troube all the time.
> >>>
> >>> Really. I don't know anyone who has.
> >>
> >> And you cruise a river in northern Africa.
> >
> > No, I simply choose to surround myself with a certain type of people.
> > Sorry you can't undestand that some of us have standards.
>
> Having sat on the board of directors of a credit union, and being in the
> daily business of pre-authorizing people's credit cards (that's what we do
> when we take your reservation), I can tell you without a doubt that credit
> cards should be illegal. They are like crack cocaine to many people, and a
> lot of people are getting hurt because of them. You simply would not
> believe the level of debt many people carry. And it's often people you
> would NEVER guess to be near bankrupt.

I can understand how you would learn about that from directing a credit union,
but how much do you learn from authorizing credit cards? The authorization
machine or phone line should only respond with approved or not approved.

[Jessica Winston]

Rachel wrote:

> Cub Driver wrote:
> > On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:36:57 -0600, Rachel > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>And your point is? I dislike credit cards. I see no reason to buy
> >>something that you can't afford at that point in time. I use a debit
> >>card and American Express card (which is NOT a credit card).
> >
> >
> > Who says he can't afford it? Perhaps he just likes the free use of the
> > money.
> >
> > And to say Amex is not a credit card is ridiculous. Of course it is;
> > it just operates a bit differently because it was there first. It
> > gives you credit until you pay the bill.
>
> Amex is a charge card. Big difference.

Some Amex cards are charge cards (which themselves are just a type of credit
cards), others (e.g. Optima, Blue, etc). are plain credit cards.

The credit cards typically don't have annual fees; the charge cards do. Pay
the credit card every month on time in full (or just have it done
automatically) and there's no charge either.

[Jessica Winston]

Rachel wrote:

> Cub Driver wrote:
> > On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:56:27 -0600, Rachel > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>"Float" has more meanings that being lighter than air or water.
> >>
> >>Excuse me? I don't float checks and never have. What is your real issue?
> >
> >
> > He's suggesting that it's silly to use a debit card when you can use
> > the bank's money for a month or six weeks by using a credit card.
> >
> > (I agree. Plus your protections tend to be greater with a credit card.
> > The only real purpose of a debit card is to get cash out of machine.)
>
> Like I said, I don't believe in buying something you can't afford at the
> time. And yes, that extends to credit cards. What's the big deal? I'm
> sure not missing the $2.00 a month in interest that I might be losing.r

Using a credit card does not require you to be buying something you can't afford
at the time. Many people are smart enough to know this and can take advantage
of the credit card benefits without paying any finance charges.

If you have a debit card that is compromised for any reason (e.g. a merchant
bank's backup tape is stolen), your checking account is compromised too. And
that can wipe out your checking account (and your savings account, if it's
linked to it) in a hurry. Sure the bank might tell you that they have a
no-fraud guarantee (which doesn't exist for most business accounts, btw) but
meanwhile your checks are bouncing, your automatic mortgage payment is bouncing,
and so on. If you're travelling overseas, your access to your now empty bank
account doesn't do you much good and you've got to get in touch with your bank
to begin the repairs. Meanwhile any of those bounced payments will result in
merchant's own fees and they're now upset at you.

If a credit card gets stolen you just call the company, get a new card, and keep
going.

A great option is to have your credit card co. automatically debit your bank
account to pay it on time in full every month. You get the float benefits of a
credit card, the fraud prevention benefits of a credit card, and the finance
benefit of a debit card. Plus some merchants (e.g. rental car companies) may not
take credit cards.

[Jessica Winston]

Rachel wrote:

> Cal Vanize wrote:
> > Rachel wrote:
> >
> >> Sylvain wrote:
> >>
> >>> Rachel wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>> American Express, hands down.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I've never had a problem with anyone accepting mine.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> do you travel abroad much? I got rid off my amex years
> >>> ago because of that; and in many situations/places, taking
> >>> your business elsewhere is not an option...
> >>>
> >>> --Sylvain
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> International travel is what I use the debit card for.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Float" has more meanings that being lighter than air or water.
>
> Just because you are in financial trouble and have to float checks
> doesn't mean everyone else does. I've never floated a check and never
> will.

Before you criticize others of critcizing you of your banking habits,
where did Cal say that he was in financical trouble? Taking advantage of
float benefits does not mean that you are in financial trouble in the
least.

For example, I frequently make use of float and I've NEVER bought anything
I couldn't buy with cash (if I wanted to) , with the single exception of
my house. Never paid a penny in credit card fees or charges either.

[Jessica Winston]

Rachel wrote:

> Darkwing wrote:
>
> > I don't take them. They charge us to much for the honor of taking their
> > card. AmEx users are like a cult though, I've had a handful of people not do
> > business with us because we won't take AmEx, pretty odd....
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > DW
>
> Not a cult...there are just some places I'd rather not brandish
> something that says USAA on it.

What would happen?

[Jessica Winston]

Rachel wrote:

> Cal Vanize wrote:
> > Rachel wrote:
> <snip>
> >
> > The question was which is "BEST" instead of which one is worst.
>
> A simple "I don't like it much" would have been a lot less insulting.
> What works for me obviously doesn't work for you.

Insulting....like insinuating that somebody is in financial difficulty
merely because they take advantage of float?

[Cal Vanize]

Jessica Winston wrote:

> Rachel wrote:
>
>
>>Cal Vanize wrote:
>>
>>>Rachel wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>The question was which is "BEST" instead of which one is worst.
>>
>>A simple "I don't like it much" would have been a lot less insulting.
>>What works for me obviously doesn't work for you.
>
>
> Insulting....like insinuating that somebody is in financial difficulty
> merely because they take advantage of float?

Don't even start. She doesn't know what float is, she thinks a
chargeback is when a cardholder returns merchandise.

[Jessica Winston]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> > American Express, hands down. I use their personal card, but both my
> > brother and father have the company card, and love it.
>
> Too few businesses accept AMEX for me to consider them. They also extort
> more money from the vendors -- which is why we threw them out of the hotel
> back in 2002. Even Walgreen's threw them out of all 14,000+ stores in the
> U.S. because of their absurdly high rates.
>
> IMHO, unless they change their business model, they will follow "Diner's
> Club" into the ash heap of CC history.

Hey, I love Diner's Club (for business purchases)! They give everyone two
billing cycles to pay and they offer primary insurance (i.e. it kicks in
before your own auto insurance) on auto rentals. I don't know of any other
card that does that. Of course I like Diner's Club a lot more now that it
uses the MasterCard network!

[Rachel]

Cal Vanize wrote:
>
>
> Jessica Winston wrote:
>
>> Rachel wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Cal Vanize wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rachel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> The question was which is "BEST" instead of which one is worst.
>>>
>>>
>>> A simple "I don't like it much" would have been a lot less insulting.
>>> What works for me obviously doesn't work for you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Insulting....like insinuating that somebody is in financial difficulty
>> merely because they take advantage of float?
>
>
> Don't even start. She doesn't know what float is, she thinks a
> chargeback is when a cardholder returns merchandise.
>
Give me a break. I stopped reading your posts days ago, unfortunately,
they've shown back up. I said nothing about chargebacks, that was
someone else. And I know what float is. Idiot.

[Jim Macklin]

If your flying a jet or turbo-prop for business, you need
about $75,000/30 days billing, to allow buying fuel at the
end of the month before they post your check. Either that
or just send them money every day. But that kind of defeats
the purpose.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jessica Winston" > wrote in message
...
| Jay Honeck wrote:
|
| > > American Express, hands down. I use their personal
card, but both my
| > > brother and father have the company card, and love it.
| >
| > Too few businesses accept AMEX for me to consider them.
They also extort
| > more money from the vendors -- which is why we threw
them out of the hotel
| > back in 2002. Even Walgreen's threw them out of all
14,000+ stores in the
| > U.S. because of their absurdly high rates.
| >
| > IMHO, unless they change their business model, they will
follow "Diner's
| > Club" into the ash heap of CC history.
|
| Hey, I love Diner's Club (for business purchases)! They
give everyone two
| billing cycles to pay and they offer primary insurance
(i.e. it kicks in
| before your own auto insurance) on auto rentals. I don't
know of any other
| card that does that. Of course I like Diner's Club a lot
more now that it
| uses the MasterCard network!
|

[Jessica Winston]

Cal Vanize wrote:

> AES wrote:
>
> > In article <raRAf.750624$xm3.129206@attbi_s21>,
> > "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Whose is best? What card do you guys use?
> >>--
> >
> >
> > AmEx for personal and personal consulting business purchases where I
> > need a record, because of
> >
> > * Fairly detailed itemization on bills
> > * Fairly wide acceptance (overseas and online)
> > * I have some trust in them
> >
> > Discover Card for routine personal purchases where record keeping is not
> > required (although they do supply an itemized monthly statement),
> > because of a percentage rebate on purchases, which can be take as *cash*
> > (i.e., a refund check), or applied to subsequent bills.
> >
> > Don't waste time on any card that offers "discounts" or "credits"
> > against various assorted "discounted" products which are either (a)
> > stuff you don't want anyway, or (b) (more often) marked up versions,
> > often under a slightly modified product number, of items you can buy for
> > less that the discounted card price in Costco or Walmart anyway.
>
> Try to find merchants that accept Discover outside the states.

I've used Discover quite a bit in Canada, particularly restaurants, even local
Canadian restaurants. That's about the extent of Discover's reach outside the
US though. I found the exchange rate to be more favorable with Discover than
with M/C or Visa.

[Flyingmonk]

Discover's accept all over Thailand.

The Monk

[Jim Macklin]

my bad, you're
"Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message news:PGYBf.69573$QW2.44813@dukeread08...
| If your flying a jet or turbo-prop for business, you need
| about $75,000/30 days billing, to allow buying fuel at the
| end of the month before they post your check. Either that
| or just send them money every day. But that kind of
defeats
| the purpose.
|
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFI,A&P
|
| --
| The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
| But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
| some support
| http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
| See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and
duties.
|
|
| "Jessica Winston" > wrote in message
| ...
|| Jay Honeck wrote:
||
|| > > American Express, hands down. I use their personal
| card, but both my
|| > > brother and father have the company card, and love
it.
|| >
|| > Too few businesses accept AMEX for me to consider them.
| They also extort
|| > more money from the vendors -- which is why we threw
| them out of the hotel
|| > back in 2002. Even Walgreen's threw them out of all
| 14,000+ stores in the
|| > U.S. because of their absurdly high rates.
|| >
|| > IMHO, unless they change their business model, they
will
| follow "Diner's
|| > Club" into the ash heap of CC history.
||
|| Hey, I love Diner's Club (for business purchases)! They
| give everyone two
|| billing cycles to pay and they offer primary insurance
| (i.e. it kicks in
|| before your own auto insurance) on auto rentals. I don't
| know of any other
|| card that does that. Of course I like Diner's Club a lot
| more now that it
|| uses the MasterCard network!
||
|
|

[Jay Honeck]

>> You simply would not
>> believe the level of debt many people carry. And it's often people you
>> would NEVER guess to be near bankrupt.
> I can understand how you would learn about that from directing a credit
> union,
> but how much do you learn from authorizing credit cards? The
> authorization
> machine or phone line should only respond with approved or not approved.

Right.

And if someone can't get a pre-approval for a $67.15 charge, that's often a
good sign that a person is in way over their head. Either way, they can't
get a reservation when they're denied, precisely for that reason.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Discover's accept all over Thailand.

We love Discover. Mary and I use it for all of our largest purchases, and
happily accept it at the hotel.

And their support people are outstanding, from the vendor's end. (I've
never needed help from the customer end.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Flyingmonk]

>We love Discover. Mary and I use it for all of our largest purchases, and
>happily accept it at the hotel.

Ditto, never a problem and cash back too!

The Monk

[Matt Whiting]

Flyingmonk wrote:

>>We love Discover. Mary and I use it for all of our largest purchases, and
>>happily accept it at the hotel.
>
>
> Ditto, never a problem and cash back too!

I had Discover for a year and had three erroneous charges during that
year (two of which totaled nearly $2,000!), more than I've had with Visa
in 20 years. And the cashback was such a small percentage, less than
0.5%, that it wasn't worth carrying the extra card. I had to continue
to carry my Visa as I also encountered at least a couple of places a
month that wouldn't accept it - mostly restaurants and small hotels/motels.


Matt

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
> And if someone can't get a pre-approval for a $67.15 charge, that's often
> a good sign that a person is in way over their head. Either way, they
> can't get a reservation when they're denied, precisely for that reason.
\
Don't be positive that someone being denied for a little charge means that
they are over their head.

Although I don't recall the exact reasons and circumstances, MasterCard once
denied approval at a gas station, for me, once. I was briefly ****ed, then
pulled out my emergency Visa, and vowed I would get to the bottom of it when
I got home.

The reason was something like that "MasterCard had detected a suspicious
spending (charge) pattern," and had put a lock on my account. I recall
something about us being on the road that day, and had put a couple medium
sized purchases on it, many miles apart, if a short time period.

I thanked them for their vigilance, but said that it was a bit over the top,
and please attempt to contact me via cell phone, before they pulled that
crap again.

Oh, I still had an odd thirty thousand plus credit line left on the card, at
that time.
--
Jim in NC

[John Clear]

In article >,
Morgans > wrote:
>
>"Jay Honeck" > wrote
>>
>> And if someone can't get a pre-approval for a $67.15 charge, that's often
>> a good sign that a person is in way over their head. Either way, they
>> can't get a reservation when they're denied, precisely for that reason.
>\
>Don't be positive that someone being denied for a little charge means that
>they are over their head.
>
>Although I don't recall the exact reasons and circumstances, MasterCard once
>denied approval at a gas station, for me, once. I was briefly ****ed, then
>pulled out my emergency Visa, and vowed I would get to the bottom of it when
>I got home.

I've not been denied, but I've had them call me a few times after
a pay-at-the-pump fillup at the gas station (temp auths as $1) and
then a several hundred dollar purchase at the supermarket. The
pay-at-the-pump is often used as a test to see if a card if good
by thiefs.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[Jay Honeck]

> Don't be positive that someone being denied for a little charge means that
> they are over their head.
>
> Although I don't recall the exact reasons and circumstances, MasterCard
> once denied approval at a gas station, for me, once. I was briefly
> ****ed, then pulled out my emergency Visa, and vowed I would get to the
> bottom of it when I got home.

True, there are the occasionally screwy things like this. It's happened to
me, too.

Still, the vast majority of denials are directly due to the card-holder
being up to their hips in credit card debt. I've had people try three
different maxed-out cards before hitting on one that would allow them a
crummy $100 pre-auth. It's downright scary.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dave Stadt]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:AahCf.735446$_o.22840@attbi_s71...
>> Don't be positive that someone being denied for a little charge means
>> that they are over their head.
>>
>> Although I don't recall the exact reasons and circumstances, MasterCard
>> once denied approval at a gas station, for me, once. I was briefly
>> ****ed, then pulled out my emergency Visa, and vowed I would get to the
>> bottom of it when I got home.
>
> True, there are the occasionally screwy things like this. It's happened
> to me, too.
>
> Still, the vast majority of denials are directly due to the card-holder
> being up to their hips in credit card debt. I've had people try three
> different maxed-out cards before hitting on one that would allow them a
> crummy $100 pre-auth. It's downright scary.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"


Not to worry, the CC companies will send them another so they can dig
themselves an even deeper hole.

[Grumman-581]

"Morgans" wrote in message ...
> Although I don't recall the exact reasons and circumstances, MasterCard
once
> denied approval at a gas station, for me, once. I was briefly ****ed,
then
> pulled out my emergency Visa, and vowed I would get to the bottom of it
when
> I got home.

I had something similar happen about 14 months ago... I had driven down to
Florida with my boat to do some diving and it seems they had a problem with
my filling up the tank on my truck and then using the same pump to fill up
my boat a minute later... I just switched to another card and contacted them
later to straighten it out... They said that the spending was suspicious
since it was outside of my usual area... I asked them if they had ever heard
of the term 'vacation' and told them that if they were to check their
records over the last few days, they would see charges of $40-50 at gas
stations every 250 or so miles from New Orleans to Key West...

[Jay Honeck]

> I had something similar happen about 14 months ago... I had driven down to
> Florida with my boat to do some diving and it seems they had a problem
> with
> my filling up the tank on my truck and then using the same pump to fill up
> my boat a minute later... I just switched to another card and contacted
> them
> later to straighten it out... They said that the spending was suspicious
> since it was outside of my usual area... I asked them if they had ever
> heard
> of the term 'vacation' and told them that if they were to check their
> records over the last few days, they would see charges of $40-50 at gas
> stations every 250 or so miles from New Orleans to Key West...

Apparently that's an automatic anti-theft thing.

We had a guest pay for their suite, and then a few minutes later, pay for
their friend's suite. Identical prices, identical business. It wouldn't go
through, and the guy had to call the 800 number on the back of his card to
get it okayed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[vincent p. norris]

>....... They said that the spending was suspicious >since it was outside of my usual area...

Before I set off for a distant clime, I phone the card company and
tell them where I'll be, when. They're grateful to have the info and
I've never had a problem

vince norris