Plane for the kids

[Robert M. Gary]

My kids have flown around in my Mooney their entire lives. Now they are
getting close to the teen years and I'm thinking of buying them a plane
and teaching them to fly in it. I've got a few years before they are
old enough but I'm starting to think about it. Some group suggestions
would be appreciated...

1) If I buy the plane just long enough for them to learn to fly can I
aviod California sales/use tax by being a dealer? How long can a dealer
hold the plane? If I only need the plane for 12 months or so, it would
be sad to have to pay 9% sales tax on the plane.
2) I'm throwing around the best plane to teach them in that would be
fun and not too expensive for dad. I'm thinking maybe a Taylorcraft or
a Lucsome. I learned in a Cessna 140 so that might be a good choice
too. I could just buy them a C150 but having something fun for dad to
fly (i.e. Aeronca, etc) would make it all the better!
3) Has anyone else on the list taught their kids to fly? I do know of
two other CFIs that have done this. The kids loved it. However, once
they finished their private life seems to prevent much other flying
until they establish in a career. I figure the boys will be pretty busy
with scouts, high school, and trying to get into a good college they
will want to earn their private and then set it aside for some years.

-Robert, CFI

[Montblack]

("Robert M. Gary" wrote)
> My kids have flown around in my Mooney their entire lives. Now they are
> getting close to the teen years and I'm thinking of buying them a plane
> and teaching them to fly in it. I've got a few years before they are old
> enough but I'm starting to think about it. Some group suggestions would be
> appreciated...


How about a glider? Now.

You could do a trade for their glider lessons - unless you also instruct in
gliders.


Montblack

[Jim Macklin]

Considering the stress of being in a family, dads and teens,
I would suggest that you lease a taildragger, maybe a tandem
cockpit and HIRE another instructor. Your kids will listen
more carefully to another teacher and can then come to you
for clarification and support. If you are the INSTRUCTOR
and the dad, they will have conflicts and slow progress
IMHO.

You can use the Mooney for some of the required training and
a simple VFR old or new (think light sport aircraft) to make
them look out the windows. California tax law is beyond
anybody's answer but you can put all your stuff in some big
trucks and go to Arizona.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| My kids have flown around in my Mooney their entire lives.
Now they are
| getting close to the teen years and I'm thinking of buying
them a plane
| and teaching them to fly in it. I've got a few years
before they are
| old enough but I'm starting to think about it. Some group
suggestions
| would be appreciated...
|
| 1) If I buy the plane just long enough for them to learn
to fly can I
| aviod California sales/use tax by being a dealer? How long
can a dealer
| hold the plane? If I only need the plane for 12 months or
so, it would
| be sad to have to pay 9% sales tax on the plane.
| 2) I'm throwing around the best plane to teach them in
that would be
| fun and not too expensive for dad. I'm thinking maybe a
Taylorcraft or
| a Lucsome. I learned in a Cessna 140 so that might be a
good choice
| too. I could just buy them a C150 but having something fun
for dad to
| fly (i.e. Aeronca, etc) would make it all the better!
| 3) Has anyone else on the list taught their kids to fly? I
do know of
| two other CFIs that have done this. The kids loved it.
However, once
| they finished their private life seems to prevent much
other flying
| until they establish in a career. I figure the boys will
be pretty busy
| with scouts, high school, and trying to get into a good
college they
| will want to earn their private and then set it aside for
some years.
|
| -Robert, CFI
|

[Newps]

One of my hangar neighbors has bought two 56 172's over the last couple
of years, one for his kid to learn in. He paid about $23K for each.
Cessna 150/152's are horrible at even our field elevation of 3650, you
can't give one of those away around here. The older 172's perform
pretty well and you won't lose any money when you sell it.



Robert M. Gary wrote:

> My kids have flown around in my Mooney their entire lives. Now they are
> getting close to the teen years and I'm thinking of buying them a plane
> and teaching them to fly in it. I've got a few years before they are
> old enough but I'm starting to think about it. Some group suggestions
> would be appreciated...
>
> 1) If I buy the plane just long enough for them to learn to fly can I
> aviod California sales/use tax by being a dealer? How long can a dealer
> hold the plane? If I only need the plane for 12 months or so, it would
> be sad to have to pay 9% sales tax on the plane.
> 2) I'm throwing around the best plane to teach them in that would be
> fun and not too expensive for dad. I'm thinking maybe a Taylorcraft or
> a Lucsome. I learned in a Cessna 140 so that might be a good choice
> too. I could just buy them a C150 but having something fun for dad to
> fly (i.e. Aeronca, etc) would make it all the better!
> 3) Has anyone else on the list taught their kids to fly? I do know of
> two other CFIs that have done this. The kids loved it. However, once
> they finished their private life seems to prevent much other flying
> until they establish in a career. I figure the boys will be pretty busy
> with scouts, high school, and trying to get into a good college they
> will want to earn their private and then set it aside for some years.
>
> -Robert, CFI
>

[john smith]

Jim Macklin had some good ideas.
I would agree that you might want to consider having someone else be the
CFI to avoid conflict. You can supplement Mooney time for practical
experience on family trips.
Definitely consider the taildragger for primary training. It is much
more fun, they will learn more, and you can have fun with it, also.
Train for the PPL in the taildragger. The skills acquired in the
taildragger will benefit them in future flight training. The
high-performance can be added later in the Mooney.
Buy or lease will depend on you finances.

[Jim Burns]

I'm looking forward to that day. My son will be 12 in a couple months and
we kid each other about buying him a SuperCub someday (ok Dad, time to sell
the house, pitch a tent, and buy a SuperCub) But seriously, I kick that
question around all the time.... which airplane would be a good trainer for
him to learn in yet provide Dad with something fun, reasonably fast, and
that would ultimately get Dad off his arse and finally build that grass
strip and hanger in front of the house? SuperCubs being priced what they
are, I keep leaning towards a C170 with a 180hp conversion and C180 gear
legs.

Jim

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> My kids have flown around in my Mooney their entire lives. Now they are
> getting close to the teen years and I'm thinking of buying them a plane
> and teaching them to fly in it. I've got a few years before they are
> old enough but I'm starting to think about it. Some group suggestions
> would be appreciated...
>
> 1) If I buy the plane just long enough for them to learn to fly can I
> aviod California sales/use tax by being a dealer? How long can a dealer
> hold the plane? If I only need the plane for 12 months or so, it would
> be sad to have to pay 9% sales tax on the plane.
> 2) I'm throwing around the best plane to teach them in that would be
> fun and not too expensive for dad. I'm thinking maybe a Taylorcraft or
> a Lucsome. I learned in a Cessna 140 so that might be a good choice
> too. I could just buy them a C150 but having something fun for dad to
> fly (i.e. Aeronca, etc) would make it all the better!
> 3) Has anyone else on the list taught their kids to fly? I do know of
> two other CFIs that have done this. The kids loved it. However, once
> they finished their private life seems to prevent much other flying
> until they establish in a career. I figure the boys will be pretty busy
> with scouts, high school, and trying to get into a good college they
> will want to earn their private and then set it aside for some years.
>
> -Robert, CFI
>

[Jim Macklin]

Build your own and have the kids help. You can build a Cub,
plans and kits are available. You've got 4-5 years to build
it before the kid will be old enough to solo.

There are choices, the instructor is more important than the
airplane, a good instructor can make the student use the
rudder and land straight even in a CE-150.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jim Burns" > wrote in
message ...
| I'm looking forward to that day. My son will be 12 in a
couple months and
| we kid each other about buying him a SuperCub someday (ok
Dad, time to sell
| the house, pitch a tent, and buy a SuperCub) But
seriously, I kick that
| question around all the time.... which airplane would be a
good trainer for
| him to learn in yet provide Dad with something fun,
reasonably fast, and
| that would ultimately get Dad off his arse and finally
build that grass
| strip and hanger in front of the house? SuperCubs being
priced what they
| are, I keep leaning towards a C170 with a 180hp conversion
and C180 gear
| legs.
|
| Jim
|
| "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
|
oups.com...
| > My kids have flown around in my Mooney their entire
lives. Now they are
| > getting close to the teen years and I'm thinking of
buying them a plane
| > and teaching them to fly in it. I've got a few years
before they are
| > old enough but I'm starting to think about it. Some
group suggestions
| > would be appreciated...
| >
| > 1) If I buy the plane just long enough for them to learn
to fly can I
| > aviod California sales/use tax by being a dealer? How
long can a dealer
| > hold the plane? If I only need the plane for 12 months
or so, it would
| > be sad to have to pay 9% sales tax on the plane.
| > 2) I'm throwing around the best plane to teach them in
that would be
| > fun and not too expensive for dad. I'm thinking maybe a
Taylorcraft or
| > a Lucsome. I learned in a Cessna 140 so that might be a
good choice
| > too. I could just buy them a C150 but having something
fun for dad to
| > fly (i.e. Aeronca, etc) would make it all the better!
| > 3) Has anyone else on the list taught their kids to fly?
I do know of
| > two other CFIs that have done this. The kids loved it.
However, once
| > they finished their private life seems to prevent much
other flying
| > until they establish in a career. I figure the boys will
be pretty busy
| > with scouts, high school, and trying to get into a good
college they
| > will want to earn their private and then set it aside
for some years.
| >
| > -Robert, CFI
| >
|
|

[Montblack]

("Jim Burns" wrote)
> ...and that would ultimately get Dad off his arse and finally build that
> grass strip and hanger in front of the house?


It's like a golf course - you want it ready later, you need to built it now.
<g>

Start with the strip.


Montblack

[Robert M. Gary]

> Your kids will listen more carefully to another teacher and can then come to you for clarification and support.

I think that's true with the wife, I'm not worried about that with the
kids.

-Robert

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Your kids will listen more carefully to another teacher and can then come
>> to you for clarification and support.
>
> I think that's true with the wife, I'm not worried about that with the
> kids.
>
> -Robert

My brother taught his son to fly in his T-18. He's (My nephew, not my
brother) now working on getting a job as a pilot (He's done with college,
and is building hours).

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

[Jim Macklin]

They aren't teens yet, no child of 14-18 really believes
that their parent knows anything.

My youngest is now 25 and starting to listen again.
--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
|> Your kids will listen more carefully to another teacher
and can then come to you for clarification and support.
|
| I think that's true with the wife, I'm not worried about
that with the
| kids.
|
| -Robert
|

[Rachel]

Robert M. Gary wrote:

> 3) Has anyone else on the list taught their kids to fly? I do know of
> two other CFIs that have done this.

I've got to say...I would have NEVER let my parents teach me to fly
(moot point, since they aren't pilots).

And I don't think I'd want to teach my children, either. Too much
personal stuff gets in the way. Of course, another moot point, since I
don't want kids.

[Morgans]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote

> They aren't teens yet, no child of 14-18 really believes
> that their parent knows anything.
>
> My youngest is now 25 and starting to listen again.

My observation of parent - child relations, is that nothing holds true for
all relationships.

Some kids will listen and learn from their parents, and some won't. You
just have to figure out what category you fall into.
--
Jim in NC

[Chris G.]

I have to disagree with that. My Dad taught my mom in 30 days how to
fly. How? I have no stinkin' clue. I was able to crank it out in 3
months flying 3+ times a week. I don't fault my Dad for my training
issues that I had as much as my own study habits and learning traits.
Where I do fault my Dad, and I can't fault him that much, is his lack of
recent flight training experience. I was his first student since my Mom
learned how to fly (from him) nearly 20 years ago.

While it was stressful, I can proudly say, "My Dad taught me how to fly."

Chris



Jim Macklin wrote:
> Considering the stress of being in a family, dads and teens,
> I would suggest that you lease a taildragger, maybe a tandem
> cockpit and HIRE another instructor. Your kids will listen
> more carefully to another teacher and can then come to you
> for clarification and support. If you are the INSTRUCTOR
> and the dad, they will have conflicts and slow progress
> IMHO.
>
> You can use the Mooney for some of the required training and
> a simple VFR old or new (think light sport aircraft) to make
> them look out the windows. California tax law is beyond
> anybody's answer but you can put all your stuff in some big
> trucks and go to Arizona.
>
>

[Helen Woods]

You might as well scratch anything with a tailwheel off the list. If,
and that's a BIG IF, you could actually find an insurance company
willing to insure a tailweel plane for a student solo, you'd be paying
through the nose for it.

I'll second the "older 172" vote. Here's why:

1. Cheap to buy
2. Cheap to insure (although you'll be paying a premium for anything
with student pilots on the insurance)
3. Doesn't need a hanger
4. Cheap to pay taxes on
5. Called the "land-o-matic" for a good reason
6. Difficult to spin (a C150 spins easily)
7. Cheap to fuel - runs on mo-gas as well as 100ll
8. Easy to jump start (12v jumps off your car or Farmer Joe's tractor)
9. Versitile enough to let your kids hang on to it and grow into it.
They can pack camping gear and enjoy some fun trips. Or you the three
of you can go for a hop together.
10. Easy to get parts for
11. Easy to work on

The 50's 172 are great VFR trainers. The mid to late 60's planes can
also do IFR training if you are looking towards that.

Helen

[George]

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to
have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at
how much he had learned."
Mark Twain

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:09:57 -0600, "Jim Macklin"

>My youngest is now 25 and starting to listen again.

George
If you request flight following, can you really "slip the surly bonds of earth"?

[B-Rad]

What Helen says!!
My brother and I have a '67 172H and my kids love it. I plan on teaching
them both to fly in it here in a few years after I get off my butt and get
my CFI.
Even my 13 year old daughter thinks "it's pretty cool"...You gotta know
that's priceless! My 9 year old son loves it, but only when he gets to sit
up front...


"Helen Woods" > wrote in message
...
> You might as well scratch anything with a tailwheel off the list. If, and
> that's a BIG IF, you could actually find an insurance company willing to
> insure a tailweel plane for a student solo, you'd be paying through the
> nose for it.
>
> I'll second the "older 172" vote. Here's why:
>
> 1. Cheap to buy
> 2. Cheap to insure (although you'll be paying a premium for anything with
> student pilots on the insurance)
> 3. Doesn't need a hanger
> 4. Cheap to pay taxes on
> 5. Called the "land-o-matic" for a good reason
> 6. Difficult to spin (a C150 spins easily)
> 7. Cheap to fuel - runs on mo-gas as well as 100ll
> 8. Easy to jump start (12v jumps off your car or Farmer Joe's tractor)
> 9. Versitile enough to let your kids hang on to it and grow into it. They
> can pack camping gear and enjoy some fun trips. Or you the three of you
> can go for a hop together.
> 10. Easy to get parts for
> 11. Easy to work on
>
> The 50's 172 are great VFR trainers. The mid to late 60's planes can also
> do IFR training if you are looking towards that.
>
> Helen

[Grumman-581]

"Rachel" > wrote in message
...
> Of course, another moot point, since I
> don't want kids.

Yeah, you say that now, but wait a few years until the biological clock
starts ticking and then it'll be, "Weeeelllll, I juuuuuussssttttt want
ooonnnnneee..."

Been there, done that, stuck with the result...

[Chris Colohan]

Helen Woods > writes:
> You might as well scratch anything with a tailwheel off the list. If,
> and that's a BIG IF, you could actually find an insurance company
> willing to insure a tailweel plane for a student solo, you'd be paying
> through the nose for it.

Huh. I am coming up on my first solo in the Citabria I am training
in. The club I am with (West Valley Flying Club, wvfc.org) has a few
of them, all used for primary training.

I have heard that larger clubs have much less trouble insuring
taildraggers, since they tend to have more experienced taildragger
instructors to go with them. (But what do I know, I am just a
pre-solo newbie.)

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

[Deborah McFarland]

Robert,

My husband taught me to fly his Luscombe, and he's not a CFI. It wasn't a
big deal. I think it depends on the relationship.

Other folks have mentioned insurance as an issue. That wasn't a big deal
with us, either. Buy the airplane that you, as the CFI, have the most
time-in-type in. That will keep your costs down. Try
http://www.auaonline.com/ for the best vintage rates.

Folks on our Luscombe List use their airplanes for "personal" primary
training all the time. It has been our experience that the high costs come
into play when tailwheel aircraft are rented out for commercial use.

Have fun!
Deb
--
1946 Luscombe 8A (his)
1948 Luscombe 8E (hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (ours)

[Robert M. Gary]

> I have head that larger clubs have much less trouble insuring taildraggers

Only if they don't allow solo.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

> IF, you could actually find an insurance company willing to insure a tailweel plane for a student solo

Since we're not talking about a lot of money, I may just insure it for
liability. If the boys crash the plane, oh-well, it wasn't an enourmous
amount of money to begin with. Besides, it never, ever stops amazing me
how much wrecked airplanes go for. I saw a flap off a Bonanza go for
almost $500.

-Robert

[[email protected]]

Check with a California tax attorney. The last time I checked, if you
buy a plane out of state, then keep it based out of state for 90 days
and use it out of stat and can prove it (tie down reciept, gas reciepts
logbooks) you don't have to pay the sales/use tax. It doesn't have to
stay in the state where you bought it. You could buy it in Ohio, fly
it to Nevada and base it in Las Vegas for 3 months, fly it once a month
there. Might be worth it.

Another option would be to lease it for a year.

A 150 is a great choice. You can sell it for exactly what you have in
to it, knock of $500 and you can sell it in a day.

I wouldn't teach my own kids to fly. I'd find a CFI that I liked.
There's too much relationship baggage between a teen and a parent. YMMV

[Jim Macklin]

Hope he didn't solo you or ever sign your logbook. But if
all he did was let you fly while he was in the plane, that
is legal.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Deborah McFarland" > wrote in
message ...
| Robert,
|
| My husband taught me to fly his Luscombe, and he's not a
CFI. It wasn't a
| big deal. I think it depends on the relationship.
|
| Other folks have mentioned insurance as an issue. That
wasn't a big deal
| with us, either. Buy the airplane that you, as the CFI,
have the most
| time-in-type in. That will keep your costs down. Try
| http://www.auaonline.com/ for the best vintage rates.
|
| Folks on our Luscombe List use their airplanes for
"personal" primary
| training all the time. It has been our experience that the
high costs come
| into play when tailwheel aircraft are rented out for
commercial use.
|
| Have fun!
| Deb
| --
| 1946 Luscombe 8A (his)
| 1948 Luscombe 8E (hers)
| 1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (ours)
|
|

[Jim Burns]

Some parents simply refuse to pull their kids aside, take the time, and
legitimately make an effort to teach their kids anything. These parents
think that kids learn through experience, osmosis, or only at school. Every
time I sit down and make a serious effort to methodically teach my son
something, I'm proud to say that he pays perfect attention, asks serious
questions, and enjoys it. Often he goes on and on about the subject on his
own afterwards trying to impress me with what he learned. I used to "use"
him as a practice student for CFI lessons, I never thought any of it was
really sinking in until one day I heard him telling his little sister about
the aerodynamics of a spin as he chased her around the living room playing
airplane. I know it was purely rote, but I was impressed that he'd
remembered it and repeated it correctly. If he continues this type of
behavior, I will have no problem teaching him to fly someday, but I am also
sure that I will send him out with a few of my mentors for check flights and
progress checks.

Jim

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> My kids have flown around in my Mooney their entire lives. Now they are
> getting close to the teen years and I'm thinking of buying them a plane
> and teaching them to fly in it. I've got a few years before they are
> old enough but I'm starting to think about it. Some group suggestions
> would be appreciated...
>
> 1) If I buy the plane just long enough for them to learn to fly can I
> aviod California sales/use tax by being a dealer? How long can a dealer
> hold the plane? If I only need the plane for 12 months or so, it would
> be sad to have to pay 9% sales tax on the plane.
> 2) I'm throwing around the best plane to teach them in that would be
> fun and not too expensive for dad. I'm thinking maybe a Taylorcraft or
> a Lucsome. I learned in a Cessna 140 so that might be a good choice
> too. I could just buy them a C150 but having something fun for dad to
> fly (i.e. Aeronca, etc) would make it all the better!
> 3) Has anyone else on the list taught their kids to fly? I do know of
> two other CFIs that have done this. The kids loved it. However, once
> they finished their private life seems to prevent much other flying
> until they establish in a career. I figure the boys will be pretty busy
> with scouts, high school, and trying to get into a good college they
> will want to earn their private and then set it aside for some years.
>
> -Robert, CFI
>

[[email protected]]

My Dad tought me to fly 27 years ago.

He bought a Luscombe 8E with 115 Hp on floats to teach me when I was about 15.
We worked diligently on this 2 or 3 days a week for the whole year.

About 2 months before my 16th birthday my Mom died and put the family in turmoil.
I went away to boarding schol and soloed about 3 weeks after my 16th with a local instructior in a 150.
My dad must have done a good job because the instructor soloed me after three hours in the 150.
(Prior to the 3 hours in the 150 I'd never landed a land plane)

Having my dad teach me to fly was one of the fondest memories I have of my child hood.

Take you time and start well before they are old enough to solo so you have an
outside force (their age) rather than your judgement holding them back from Solo.
(They can't argue with the age, they can argue with the judgement)


My dad is now in his late seventies and no longer flies,
but two years ago I rented the club cardinal and flew him from Souther CA back to Osh
it was fun and brought back warm memories.

My (then ) 17 year old son met us in Osh and flew back with us.
I did not carry on the tradition of teaching my son to fly, he just is not bitten
by the airplane bug. Our big father/son project was rebuilding a 67 mustang convertable
from the gorund up.





Paul

[Grumman-581]

"Deborah McFarland" > wrote in message
...
> Robert,
>
> My husband taught me to fly his Luscombe, and he's not a CFI. It wasn't a
> big deal. I think it depends on the relationship.

You've brought up a good point here... There are two things involved in
getting a license -- actually learning to fly and fulfilling the actual FAA
requirements... I sometimes let my daughter 'fly' my plane... She's only 12
now, but someday she might even progress to the point of doing a takeoff and
a landing... For now, she's happy enough to just be able to fly straight and
level... Of course, I'm using the term 'straight and level' rather
loosely... At some point, I'll turn her over to a CFI to let her get her
license, but if I've done it right, she should be able to solo pretty damn
close to immediately...

[Robert M. Gary]

> I'm proud to say that he pays perfect attention, asks serious questions, and enjoys it.

I agree. I teach my kids things everyday. Right now I"m teaching them
how to properly fire and use their BB rifle. They think its awesome to
learn from dad. I taught my boys baseball, basketball, football, etc.
I'm proud to say they are very good at all now and compete in leagues.
Some people send their kids to day care, etc to teach them things.
Others are very comfortable teaching kids all they need to know
themselves. I honestly don't see any problem teaching them to fly. I'm
offering them a plane and my time for free. If they decided they wanted
someone else to teach them, they'll have to work extra shifts at the
McD's.
No, if it were my wife, it would be a very different story. I still
can't make her understand that there is a middle ground between rolling
through a stop sign and sitting for 30 seconds at the sign.:) I just
sit quite and think of something else.

-Robert, CFI

[Chris Colohan]

"Robert M. Gary" > writes:
> > I have head that larger clubs have much less trouble insuring taildraggers
>
> Only if they don't allow solo.

In which case, I am very thankful that I belong to a club which has
managed to jump through the right hoops. :-)

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

[Newps]

Robert M. Gary wrote:

>>IF, you could actually find an insurance company willing to insure a tailweel plane for a student solo
>
>
> Since we're not talking about a lot of money, I may just insure it for
> liability. If the boys crash the plane, oh-well, it wasn't an enourmous
> amount of money to begin with. Besides, it never, ever stops amazing me
> how much wrecked airplanes go for. I saw a flap off a Bonanza go for
> almost $500.
>

That's because they are over $3K new.

[Deborah McFarland]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:lLvBf.69412$QW2.28094@dukeread08...
> Hope he didn't solo you or ever sign your logbook. But if
> all he did was let you fly while he was in the plane, that
> is legal.

Really? No one signed his logbook. He didn't need anyone's okay to solo.
Tailwheel endorsements are a relatively new idea.

Deb

--
1946 Luscombe 8A (his)
1948 Luscombe 8E (hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (ours)

[Jim Burns]

Agree on the wife thing.... I've already figured out that I'll never teach
her to fly. I may be able to help her now and then, but only if she comes
to me with questions seeking explainations, then she's open to listening to
me explain something. She'll do that now with her accounting classes but I
know better than to butt in without her asking.

Jim

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> > I'm proud to say that he pays perfect attention, asks serious
questions, and enjoys it.
>
> I agree. I teach my kids things everyday. Right now I"m teaching them
> how to properly fire and use their BB rifle. They think its awesome to
> learn from dad. I taught my boys baseball, basketball, football, etc.
> I'm proud to say they are very good at all now and compete in leagues.
> Some people send their kids to day care, etc to teach them things.
> Others are very comfortable teaching kids all they need to know
> themselves. I honestly don't see any problem teaching them to fly. I'm
> offering them a plane and my time for free. If they decided they wanted
> someone else to teach them, they'll have to work extra shifts at the
> McD's.
> No, if it were my wife, it would be a very different story. I still
> can't make her understand that there is a middle ground between rolling
> through a stop sign and sitting for 30 seconds at the sign.:) I just
> sit quite and think of something else.
>
> -Robert, CFI
>

[Dave Stadt]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:lLvBf.69412$QW2.28094@dukeread08...
> Hope he didn't solo you or ever sign your logbook. But if
> all he did was let you fly while he was in the plane, that
> is legal.

Anyone can sign anybodys log book. Some people have passengers sign just so
they can look back to see who they have flown with. What's the big deal? I
see nothing to prevent a non CFI from instructing, indicating so in the
students log book and signing it. The times don't count toward any
instruction required for ratings but other than that what's the problem?

>
> --
> James H. Macklin
> ATP,CFI,A&P
>
> --
> The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
> But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
> some support
> http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
> See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.
>
>
> "Deborah McFarland" > wrote in
> message ...
> | Robert,
> |
> | My husband taught me to fly his Luscombe, and he's not a
> CFI. It wasn't a
> | big deal. I think it depends on the relationship.
> |
> | Other folks have mentioned insurance as an issue. That
> wasn't a big deal
> | with us, either. Buy the airplane that you, as the CFI,
> have the most
> | time-in-type in. That will keep your costs down. Try
> | http://www.auaonline.com/ for the best vintage rates.
> |
> | Folks on our Luscombe List use their airplanes for
> "personal" primary
> | training all the time. It has been our experience that the
> high costs come
> | into play when tailwheel aircraft are rented out for
> commercial use.
> |
> | Have fun!
> | Deb
> | --
> | 1946 Luscombe 8A (his)
> | 1948 Luscombe 8E (hers)
> | 1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (ours)
> |
> |
>
>

[Jim Macklin]

Ask your local FAA Inspector... I see no problem with having
a passenger put their name in a book as a passenger, but by
law (FAR) only an authorized instructor may endorse (sign)
for instruction given.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
. com...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:lLvBf.69412$QW2.28094@dukeread08...
| > Hope he didn't solo you or ever sign your logbook. But
if
| > all he did was let you fly while he was in the plane,
that
| > is legal.
|
| Anyone can sign anybodys log book. Some people have
passengers sign just so
| they can look back to see who they have flown with.
What's the big deal? I
| see nothing to prevent a non CFI from instructing,
indicating so in the
| students log book and signing it. The times don't count
toward any
| instruction required for ratings but other than that
what's the problem?
|
| >
| > --
| > James H. Macklin
| > ATP,CFI,A&P
| >
| > --
| > The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
| > But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
| > some support
| > http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
| > See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and
duties.
| >
| >
| > "Deborah McFarland" > wrote in
| > message ...
| > | Robert,
| > |
| > | My husband taught me to fly his Luscombe, and he's not
a
| > CFI. It wasn't a
| > | big deal. I think it depends on the relationship.
| > |
| > | Other folks have mentioned insurance as an issue. That
| > wasn't a big deal
| > | with us, either. Buy the airplane that you, as the
CFI,
| > have the most
| > | time-in-type in. That will keep your costs down. Try
| > | http://www.auaonline.com/ for the best vintage rates.
| > |
| > | Folks on our Luscombe List use their airplanes for
| > "personal" primary
| > | training all the time. It has been our experience that
the
| > high costs come
| > | into play when tailwheel aircraft are rented out for
| > commercial use.
| > |
| > | Have fun!
| > | Deb
| > | --
| > | 1946 Luscombe 8A (his)
| > | 1948 Luscombe 8E (hers)
| > | 1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (ours)
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

[Jim Burns]

We needed a flap for our Aztec. I called a guy that is in the business of
rebuilding flaps and ailerons. A used/rebuilt/newly skinned Aztec flap runs
$2800, plus a $250 deposit on the shipping crate. He offered us $1000 for
our wrecked flap. We found a used flap from Wentworth in like new condition
for $1200, that was the best price we could find.
Jim

"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
> >>IF, you could actually find an insurance company willing to insure a
tailweel plane for a student solo
> >
> >
> > Since we're not talking about a lot of money, I may just insure it for
> > liability. If the boys crash the plane, oh-well, it wasn't an enourmous
> > amount of money to begin with. Besides, it never, ever stops amazing me
> > how much wrecked airplanes go for. I saw a flap off a Bonanza go for
> > almost $500.
> >
>
> That's because they are over $3K new.
>

[Big John]

Are you saying once you start you can't turn off???

Big John
````````````````````````````````````````````


On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:48:54 GMT, "Grumman-581"
> wrote:

>"Rachel" > wrote in message
...
>> Of course, another moot point, since I
>> don't want kids.
>
>Yeah, you say that now, but wait a few years until the biological clock
>starts ticking and then it'll be, "Weeeelllll, I juuuuuussssttttt want
>ooonnnnneee..."
>
>Been there, done that, stuck with the result...
>

[Peter Duniho]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:%HNBf.69513$QW2.58698@dukeread08...
> Ask your local FAA Inspector... I see no problem with having
> a passenger put their name in a book as a passenger, but by
> law (FAR) only an authorized instructor may endorse (sign)
> for instruction given.

Wrong. By *regulation* (FAR), only an authorized instructor may endorse for
instruction given *and used for the purpose of meeting the requirements of
the regulation (FAR)*.

Anyone can sign anything they want. Most things require a CFI if you want
the endorsement to be useful for the purpose of meeting the requirements of
the FARs, but that doesn't mean someone who isn't a CFI can't sign a
logbook.

Pete

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...
> "Deborah McFarland" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Robert,
>>
>> My husband taught me to fly his Luscombe, and he's not a CFI. It wasn't a
>> big deal. I think it depends on the relationship.
>
> You've brought up a good point here... There are two things involved in
> getting a license -- actually learning to fly and fulfilling the actual
> FAA
> requirements... I sometimes let my daughter 'fly' my plane... She's only
> 12
> now, but someday she might even progress to the point of doing a takeoff
> and
> a landing... For now, she's happy enough to just be able to fly straight
> and
> level... Of course, I'm using the term 'straight and level' rather
> loosely... At some point, I'll turn her over to a CFI to let her get her
> license, but if I've done it right, she should be able to solo pretty damn
> close to immediately...
>

Bingo. According to my log book, I soloed after about 1.5 hours of dual.

In a taildragger.

I'm not THAT good...

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

[Grumman-581]

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" wrote in message
.. .
> Bingo. According to my log book, I soloed after about 1.5 hours of dual.
>
> In a taildragger.
>
> I'm not THAT good...

Yep, I'm using the same technique for SCUBA... First she goes diving with me
and I teach her how to dive... Then, when she's old enough, she gets
rubberstamped by the certification agency... Hell, I dove for over 20 years
before I finally "got official" and was rubberstamped with a C-card...

Some people might bring up the issue of the person not getting credit for
all the hours that they had flown this way, but I don't see it as that big
of a deal as long as the person is not renting a plane... Wether the person
is working on the license or just flying for fun, they would probably be
doing the flights anyway... The main thing that it prevents is the carrying
of passengers... Not that big of a deal for 40 hours... Hell, we need people
doing it this way so that the average hours until solo (or PPL) will go
down... <grin>

[Jack]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> My kids have flown around in my Mooney their entire lives. Now they are
> getting close to the teen years and I'm thinking of buying them a plane
> and teaching them to fly in it. I've got a few years before they are
> old enough but I'm starting to think about it. Some group suggestions
> would be appreciated.


Don't worry about it. Uncle Sam will loan them a T-38. You've probably
paid for one by now, anyway. Just tell 'em to stay in school and go USAF.


Jack