Haven't flown in a long while...

[Flyingmonk]

I haven't flown in a long while and I'm avoiding the "Pilot
withdrawl..." thread. I've got to get my medical class III done before
Feb 15, that's when I'm turning 40 so it will last for 3 years.

Now, I've been reading about all of these recent crashes.

Man! I'm not sure if I'm upto going back up again with all these guys
ditching and all... I haven't flown in ages and that little Robinson
R22 is just a tad bigger than a Chinese top. I'm not too keen on
driving planks, I like landing in friends' back yards and sandbars out
in the country way too much.

The Monk

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Flyingmonk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I haven't flown in a long while and I'm avoiding the "Pilot
> withdrawl..." thread. I've got to get my medical class III done before
> Feb 15, that's when I'm turning 40 so it will last for 3 years.
>
> Now, I've been reading about all of these recent crashes.
>
> Man! I'm not sure if I'm upto going back up again with all these guys
> ditching and all...

The real problem is, how are you are going to get to the quack to get a
medical? There is an automobile crash every 5 seconds in the US...

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

[Darkwing]

"Flyingmonk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I haven't flown in a long while and I'm avoiding the "Pilot
> withdrawl..." thread. I've got to get my medical class III done before
> Feb 15, that's when I'm turning 40 so it will last for 3 years.
>
> Now, I've been reading about all of these recent crashes.
>
> Man! I'm not sure if I'm upto going back up again with all these guys
> ditching and all... I haven't flown in ages and that little Robinson
> R22 is just a tad bigger than a Chinese top. I'm not too keen on
> driving planks, I like landing in friends' back yards and sandbars out
> in the country way too much.
>
> The Monk
>

Yeah you read a story about some guy with a 2 million hours, 30 type
ratings, 300 endorsements and he manages to get himself killed and you think
what the hell are my chances then??? Well that is true no matter what you
do, taking a shower, getting the mail, keel over from a heart attack
watching TV, life isn't safe. You can't take it to serious cause' you'll
never get out alive!

------------------------------------------
DW

[Jeff]

> Yeah you read a story about some guy with a 2 million hours, 30 type
> ratings, 300 endorsements and he manages to get himself killed and you
> think what the hell are my chances then???

<I'm gonna get flamed for this one....>

Just because someone might have 20,000 hours doesn't mean he's a safe pilot
in a GA aircraft. In fact, I know a couple of airline Captains (both
recently retired) that I wouldn't get in a 172 with. Neither of them have
the "love" of flying that it took to stay current with out George doing most
of the flying for them. In fact, some of the safest pilots I've been around
lately are lower-time guys. I guess it's because their mindset is that they
know they may screwup so they do everything they can to do it right. Being
"comfortable" can bite you...IMHO.

jf

[Aluckyguess]

"Darkwing" <theducksmailATyahoo.com> wrote in message
...
>
> "Flyingmonk" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>I haven't flown in a long while and I'm avoiding the "Pilot
>> withdrawl..." thread. I've got to get my medical class III done before
>> Feb 15, that's when I'm turning 40 so it will last for 3 years.
>>
>> Now, I've been reading about all of these recent crashes.
>>
>> Man! I'm not sure if I'm upto going back up again with all these guys
>> ditching and all... I haven't flown in ages and that little Robinson
>> R22 is just a tad bigger than a Chinese top. I'm not too keen on
>> driving planks, I like landing in friends' back yards and sandbars out
>> in the country way too much.
>>
>> The Monk
>>
>
> Yeah you read a story about some guy with a 2 million hours, 30 type
> ratings, 300 endorsements and he manages to get himself killed and you
> think what the hell are my chances then??? Well that is true no matter
> what you do, taking a shower, getting the mail, keel over from a heart
> attack watching TV, life isn't safe. You can't take it to serious cause'
> you'll never get out alive!
>
> ------------------------------------------
> DW
>
When your time is up its up.

[Jay Honeck]

> Just because someone might have 20,000 hours doesn't mean he's a safe
> pilot in a GA aircraft. In fact, I know a couple of airline Captains
> (both recently retired) that I wouldn't get in a 172 with. Neither of
> them have the "love" of flying that it took to stay current with out
> George doing most of the flying for them.

Sadly, this does seem to be one terrible downside of flying for a living,
and I've seen it, too. These guys start out as kids who want to fly,
become flight instructors, build hours, and then move into flying freight in
the middle of the night.

It seems by the time they get to 747 captain, they've had to fly so much, in
every kind of crappy weather, with every kind of passenger, that it just
wrings the love of flying right out of them.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Flyingmonk]

Jay wrote:
----------------------------------------
Sadly, this does seem to be one terrible downside of flying for a
living,
and I've seen it, too. These guys start out as kids who want to fly,
become flight instructors, build hours, and then move into flying
freight in
the middle of the night.

It seems by the time they get to 747 captain, they've had to fly so
much, in
every kind of crappy weather, with every kind of passenger, that it
just
wrings the love of flying right out of them.
----------------------------------------

That's what I think too, also I think that driving them widebodies must
be like driving a bus ( not that I wouldn't give my third nut to be a
captain of one <g> ). I would prefer Ferraris over a school bus anyday
of the week, if you know what I mean.

The Monk

[Flyingmonk]

>Just because someone might have 20,000 hours doesn't mean he's a safe pilot
>in a GA aircraft. In fact, I know a couple of airline Captains (both
>recently retired) that I wouldn't get in a 172 with. Neither of them have
>the "love" of flying that it took to stay current with out George doing most
>of the flying for them. In fact, some of the safest pilots I've been around
>lately are lower-time guys. I guess it's because their mindset is that they
>know they may screwup so they do everything they can to do it right. Being
>"comfortable" can bite you...IMHO.

It's not the thought of dying or getting hurt that scares me, not by a
long shot. It is the thought of my girls growing w/o a father or a
crippled one, that's scary.

The Monk

[Jeff]

>
> It's not the thought of dying or getting hurt that scares me, not by a
> long shot. It is the thought of my girls growing w/o a father or a
> crippled one, that's scary.
>
> The Monk
>

I have the same thoughts many times before I fly. I'll go kiss my kids
goodbye and the fleeting thought will run through my head "is this the last
time?". Morbid, I know and I also know that I'm MUCH more likely to have a
stroke or have a car wreck on the way to the airport, but we're talking
about non-logical emotions. I'm sure it's all in the comfort level.

I "feel your pain". I understand completely, but I also have to use my head
and understand that 99.99% of the time, I'll be fine :) If we let the fear
go too far, we'd be sitting at home worried that the house will fall in.
Don't be stupid, don't be reckless, but enjoy what you can.

MHO,

jf

[Jay Honeck]

>> It's not the thought of dying or getting hurt that scares me, not by a
>> long shot. It is the thought of my girls growing w/o a father or a
>> crippled one, that's scary.
>
> I have the same thoughts many times before I fly. I'll go kiss my kids
> goodbye and the fleeting thought will run through my head "is this the
> last time?".

Gee, I thought I was the only one who had thoughts like that. Of course, as
often as not, my kids are *with* me when I fly, which REALLY opens you up to
morbid thoughts and feelings of overwhelming responsibility.

I remember when they were real little, and we'd have to strap them in their
car seats in the back seat, and I would wonder to myself how in the world
would I EVER get them out in the event of a crash. Post-crash fires were
(and are) my greatest nightmare, but at least now they're self-mobile, and
could get out in a hurry under their own steam. Back then, strapped in car
seats, they would have been doomed.

Of course, you start to ponder stuff like that, and you can drive yourself
crazy -- but where does "prudent emergency planning" cross the line into
"paranoia"? It's a pretty thin line.

> Morbid, I know and I also know that I'm MUCH more likely to have a stroke
> or have a car wreck on the way to the airport, but we're talking about
> non-logical emotions. I'm sure it's all in the comfort level.

This has been hashed and re-hashed here many times, and the verdict is this:
Unless you're flying on an airliner, that's really not true. According to
the statistical gurus on this newsgroup, private flying carries with it
about the same statistical probability of having an accident as does riding
a motorcycle -- which is MUCH higher than driving your car.

But that's not about to stop us from living the dream. Knowledge is power,
and that knowledge just makes Mary and me *that* much more cautious when we
fly. Hopefully that gives us the edge we need.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter R.]

Flyingmonk > wrote:

> It's not the thought of dying or getting hurt that scares me, not by a
> long shot. It is the thought of my girls growing w/o a father or a
> crippled one, that's scary.

A few years ago I went over the handlebars of my mountain bike so hard that
I broke the helmet almost in half. Fortunately for me and my family, I
escaped serious and permanent injury.

Later that night I posted this experience in one of the mountain biking
newsgroups along with the question, "As a father of two small boys, should
I really be doing this anymore?"

One poster replied with the following that made a lot of sense: "If I were
a child who learned that my father stopped doing all of the activities he
enjoyed solely for my benefit, I would be very saddened."


--
Peter

[Peter R.]

Jay Honeck > wrote:

> I remember when they were real little, and we'd have to strap them in their
> car seats in the back seat, and I would wonder to myself how in the world
> would I EVER get them out in the event of a crash. Post-crash fires were
> (and are) my greatest nightmare, but at least now they're self-mobile, and
> could get out in a hurry under their own steam. Back then, strapped in car
> seats, they would have been doomed.

I also have this thought with regards to careening off a cliff into deep
water despite the fact that there really are no cliffs into water near any
of the roads I commonly drive with the family.


--
Peter

[Sport Pilot]

Flyingmonk wrote:
> >Just because someone might have 20,000 hours doesn't mean he's a safe pilot
> >in a GA aircraft. In fact, I know a couple of airline Captains (both
> >recently retired) that I wouldn't get in a 172 with. Neither of them have
> >the "love" of flying that it took to stay current with out George doing most
> >of the flying for them. In fact, some of the safest pilots I've been around
> >lately are lower-time guys. I guess it's because their mindset is that they
> >know they may screwup so they do everything they can to do it right. Being
> >"comfortable" can bite you...IMHO.
>
> It's not the thought of dying or getting hurt that scares me, not by a
> long shot. It is the thought of my girls growing w/o a father or a
> crippled one, that's scary.
>
> The Monk

If you want a safer past time or hobby. Try riding motorcycles.

[Doug]

If you can keep from running out of fuel and fly behind a better than
average engine you lower your risk considerably.

[Skylune]

by "Sport Pilot" <hppilot001@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jan 31, 2006 at 08:17 AM




If you want a safer past time or hobby. Try riding motorcycles<<

I've done a little flying and a lot of bike riding. Studies say they are
about equally risky.

My impression is that riding motorcycles is far more dangerous than
proficient flier who is cautious.

Of course, the planes make much more noise....

[Sport Pilot]

Skylune wrote:
> by "Sport Pilot" <hppilot001@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jan 31, 2006 at 08:17 AM
>
>
>
>
> If you want a safer past time or hobby. Try riding motorcycles<<
>
> I've done a little flying and a lot of bike riding. Studies say they are
> about equally risky.
>
> My impression is that riding motorcycles is far more dangerous than
> proficient flier who is cautious.
>
> Of course, the planes make much more noise....

Statistics say that the only thing more dangerous than flying small
planes is skydiving. However that includes IFR. I recall reading in
aviation consumer years ago that VFR flying is safer than motorcycles
but still behind automobiles. IMO a lot could be done about small
aircraft safety. I recall Burt Rutan proposed a system that would
probably make IFR flying safer, but would add expense for a heads up
display.

[Jay Honeck]

> Of course, the planes make much more noise....

???

Clearly you've never lived in the Milwaukee area. For some reason, the
Harley crowd finds it necessary and desireable to drill out their
mufflers almost immediately after bringing their Hog home from the
dealer...

They're ubiquitous in summer, and at least twice as loud as any
airplane short of a Harrier jump jet.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Skylune]

???

Clearly you've never lived in the Milwaukee area. For some reason, the
>>Harley crowd finds it necessary and desireable to drill out their
mufflers almost immediately after bringing their Hog home from the
dealer...

They're ubiquitous in summer, and at least twice as loud as any
airplane short of a Harrier jump jet.<<

If they did that in my current (New Hampshire) state, or former state (NY)
they would be ticketed by the police. There are noise laws.

[Skylune]

>>by "Sport Pilot" > Jan 31, 2006 at 10:01 AM


Statistics say that the only thing more dangerous than flying small
planes is skydiving. However that includes IFR. I recall reading in
aviation consumer years ago that VFR flying is safer than motorcycles
but still behind automobiles. IMO a lot could be done about small
aircraft safety. I recall Burt Rutan proposed a system that would
probably make IFR flying safer, but would add expense for a heads up
display.<<

Well, I think scuba diving is also up there as high risk. I'm not saying
that flying a small plane is not "high risk" (thats y so many life
insurance companies have exclusions for diving, flying and skydiving),
just that a cautious flyer (not pushing minimums, thourough pre flight
100% of the time, flying a relatively new plane, etc.) is safer than
riding a bike, IMO.

I don't think there will ever be a way to 100% objectively compare safety
statistics of different modes of transportation, but the most thoughtful
studies have put it about at the level of riding a bike. But I still
think flying a plane puts most of the risk on the pilot (training,
competence, currency, etc.) whereas on a motorcycle, you are at the whim
of people in cars and trucks.


I had numerous close calls on my old Yamaha RD 350 when I was in my 20s.
All caused by cars that didn't see me or just didn't care. When I flew in
the past, I wasn't really worried about a mid air. These are statistically
rare.

[Skylune]

>>by "Skylune" > Jan 31, 2006 at 03:23 PM


???

Clearly you've never lived in the Milwaukee area. For some reason, the
>>Harley crowd finds it necessary and desireable to drill out their
mufflers almost immediately after bringing their Hog home from the
dealer...

They're ubiquitous in summer, and at least twice as loud as any
airplane short of a Harrier jump jet.<<

If they did that in my current (New Hampshire) state, or former state
(NY)
they would be ticketed by the police. There are noise laws.<<

BTW, there are also strict limits on noise boats can make. I personally
know of boaters that were ticketed for loud exhausts. Most states have
regulations.

http://www.marineparts.com/partspages/Corsa-Gil/noiselaws.htm

I repeat a basic FACT: only small planes are exempt from any and all
noise regulations.

by "Skylune" > Jan 31, 2006 at 03:23 PM


???

Clearly you've never lived in the Milwaukee area. For some reason, the
>>Harley crowd finds it necessary and desireable to drill out their
mufflers almost immediately after bringing their Hog home from the
dealer...

They're ubiquitous in summer, and at least twice as loud as any
airplane short of a Harrier jump jet.<<

If they did that in my current (New Hampshire) state, or former state
(NY)
they would be ticketed by the police. There are noise laws.

[Dave Stadt]

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> ???
>
> Clearly you've never lived in the Milwaukee area. For some reason, the
>>>Harley crowd finds it necessary and desireable to drill out their
> mufflers almost immediately after bringing their Hog home from the
> dealer...
>
> They're ubiquitous in summer, and at least twice as loud as any
> airplane short of a Harrier jump jet.<<
>
> If they did that in my current (New Hampshire) state, or former state (NY)
> they would be ticketed by the police. There are noise laws.


Chances are the laws are not enforced. Most states have noise laws but
enforcement is very far down the list of police priorities.

[Skylune]

Chances are the laws are not enforced. Most states have noise laws but
enforcement is very far down the list of police priorities.<<

This is not true in Manchester NH, Nashua NH, and in the lakes region.
Try riding a bike with straight pipes and see what happens.

But I'd settle for a noise law on planes, even if loosely enforced. Now
there are no laws for planes.

[Skylune]

Cycles' roar is No. 1
NH noise complaint
By MARK HAYWARD
Union Leader Staff



Last summer, police in Seacoast towns decided to clamp down on noise from
motorcycles and car stereos.

State and local police manned road blocks and initially distributed
literature and warnings. Since then, they have been issuing tickets to
noisy motorcyclists and for loud car stereos.

It is not easy; Hampton must hire special details, often at overtime
rates, to enforce the noise ordinance, said Police Chief William Wrenn.
But noise had become the number-one complaint in the region during summer
months

“I believe it’s had an impact,” Wrenn said about his efforts. “It’s a
tremendous problem today, especially with motorcycles. They have a
tendency to want to be loud.”

[Jay Beckman]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Of course, the planes make much more noise....
>
> ???
>
> Clearly you've never lived in the Milwaukee area. For some reason, the
> Harley crowd finds it necessary and desireable to drill out their
> mufflers almost immediately after bringing their Hog home from the
> dealer...
>
> They're ubiquitous in summer, and at least twice as loud as any
> airplane short of a Harrier jump jet.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

I saw this on a H/D tee shirt:

"Loud Pipes Save Lives"

I guess the sentiment is if they can't see you coming, make sure they HEAR
you coming...

Jay B

[Skylune]

by B A R R Y > Jan 31, 2006 at
09:50 PM


On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:39:22 -0700, "Jay Beckman" >
wrote:
>
>"Loud Pipes Save Lives"
>
>I guess the sentiment is if they can't see you coming, make sure they
HEAR
>you coming...


A good friend of mine who is a multi-generational cycle freak, but not
much of a Harley guy always asks: "Why, are they going to point them
out the front?" <G>

He's a Triumph, Ducati, BMW, and the occasional Japanese motocross
type of guy who doesn't think a bike needs to be loud to sound good.
But then again, he also wears protective riding suits of leather and
kevlar, and a full-face helmet.

How about "ape hanger" handlebars? <G><<

The "Loud Pipes save Lives" sound bite is silly and every bit as
disingenuous as the amateurish AOPA propaganda. Its a total joke, and
anyone with half a brain knows that is not the REAL reason.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> Cycles' roar is No. 1
> NH noise complaint
> By MARK HAYWARD
> Union Leader Staff
>...>
> It is not easy; Hampton must hire special details, often at overtime
> rates, to enforce the noise ordinance, said Police Chief William Wrenn.
> But noise had become the number-one complaint in the region during summer
> months


I'm glad we agree. Noise from small airplanes just plane isn't a problem
when compared to other sources.

I used to live about 2 miles from the Detroit River, and about 3 miles from
an airport. I could hear the boats on the water just fine. The only aircraft
noise I used to notice was from the Goodyear Blimp. I always liked to hear
that, because then I knew to dash down to the airport to watch it come in.

Where I live now, there is a B17 that rumbles overhead pretty regularly
(Yankee Airforce Museum) - That's always nice to hear, but unless I'm
looking up, I don't notice small planes. Trains, and the nieghbors dogs, on
the other hand...

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

[Doug]

Just curious, does anyone operate a Seaplane on the Detroit River? Are
there any desirable places where you can live and have a dock on the
Detroit River?

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Doug" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Just curious, does anyone operate a Seaplane on the Detroit River? Are
> there any desirable places where you can live and have a dock on the
> Detroit River?
>

I'm not aware of any active sea plane bases any more. But I would assume
that there are some float planes still in the area though. You are probably
more likely to find them on smaller lakes.

All it takes is money. On the downriver end, there are lots of homes with
docks on Grosse Ile (river and canals), Gibralter (mostly on canals), some
in Trenton and Wyandotte (on the river). Bois Blanc island (Bob-Lo) is now
all condo's (used to be an amusement park), but that's on the Canadian side.

There are new, upscale, waterfront developments going in on the east side of
Detroit. If you have LOTS of money you could buy lakefront property in the
Grosse Pointes but most of them don't have docks (pretty exposed - besides,
you belong to one of the yacht clubs anyhow, right?), lots of canals in St.
Clair Shores.

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

[Jay Beckman]

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote in message
news:hNSdnbnfp5TttH3enZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...

<Snip>

> All it takes is money. On the downriver end, there are lots of homes with
> docks on Grosse Ile (river and canals), Gibralter (mostly on canals), some
> in Trenton and Wyandotte (on the river). Bois Blanc island (Bob-Lo) is now
> all condo's (used to be an amusement park), but that's on the Canadian
> side.

Bob-Lo is all condos now...?!?!?

*sigh*

Another happy childhood memory trashed!

Whatever became of the Bob-Lo Boats?

Jay B

[Morgans]

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote

>>
>
> I'm not aware of any active sea plane bases any more. But I would assume
> that there are some float planes still in the area though. You are
> probably more likely to find them on smaller lakes.
\
In the area of the Detroit River, or anywhere?

Last time I was there, there was a base at Key West.
--
Jim in NC

[Peter Duniho]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
> In the area of the Detroit River, or anywhere?
>
> Last time I was there, there was a base at Key West.

Obviously he means on the Detroit River. There are numerous seaplane bases
in operation elsewhere.

[Skylune]

by "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com> Jan 31, 2006
at 07:17 PM

> Cycles' roar is No. 1
> NH noise complaint
> By MARK HAYWARD
> Union Leader Staff
>...>
> It is not easy; Hampton must hire special details, often at overtime
> rates, to enforce the noise ordinance, said Police Chief William Wrenn.
> But noise had become the number-one complaint in the region during
summer
> months


I'm glad we agree. Noise from small airplanes just plane isn't a problem
when compared to other sources.<<

Say what?? I didn't write the article. LOL.

I posted the article to rebut yet another inaccuracy: that noise
ordinances are not enforced.

[marika]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>
> Gee, I thought I was the only one who had thoughts like that. Of course, as
> often as not, my kids are *with* me when I fly, which REALLY opens you up to
> morbid thoughts and feelings of overwhelming responsibility.



apparently vacine will not be so easy


mk5000



"Pixar's super genius continues to flow with no ebb in sight."
-- Jeffrey Westhoff,

[Greg Copeland]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:56:46 -0800, Jay Honeck wrote:

> Clearly you've never lived in the Milwaukee area. For some reason, the
> Harley crowd finds it necessary and desireable to drill out their
> mufflers almost immediately after bringing their Hog home from the
> dealer...

This happens by design. HD decided that they should make their mufflers
with removeable baffels. This means it takes about 15-minutes to go from
legal to horribly loud levels. For each baffel removed, the db level
goes up. I'm not sure you can actually create a straight pipe (one
baffle may not come out; I'm not sure), but based on the sound levels I've
heard, I wouldn't be suprised.

Greg