DG-300 instrument panel

[[email protected]]

I'm thinking of starting anew with the instrument panel in the 300.
The Terra 720 radio is out, and the L-NAV works, but it came with an
old Garmin 95 GPS, which looks more like a typewriter, and no logger.
I'm looking to do a Cambridge 302, with a good radio, and remove the
compass from atop the cowling, and put it into the panel. The panel I
have now is drilled with 4 80mm holes and one 57mm hole, with the other
space taken up by 3 fuses, and voltage indicator. I was hoping some
300 type people might be kind enough to send a few pics of updated
panels? thanks

[Bill Daniels]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm thinking of starting anew with the instrument panel in the 300.
> The Terra 720 radio is out, and the L-NAV works, but it came with an
> old Garmin 95 GPS, which looks more like a typewriter, and no logger.
> I'm looking to do a Cambridge 302, with a good radio, and remove the
> compass from atop the cowling, and put it into the panel. The panel I
> have now is drilled with 4 80mm holes and one 57mm hole, with the other
> space taken up by 3 fuses, and voltage indicator. I was hoping some
> 300 type people might be kind enough to send a few pics of updated
> panels? thanks
>

I think your question was about panel layout and not the actual construction
of a panel, but the following may help even if it is a bit of a thread fork.

If you have a modest collection of shop tools, you can make a very good
looking panel. Start with some 3/4" thick high density particle board or
plywood and, using the old panel for a guide, cut a template with the
layout you think you like. Very accurate and clean 80mm and 57 mm holes can
be cut in the wood template with large Forstner bits in a drill press. Hole
saws work too but the holes are not as neat as Forstner bits make.

Using this new template and a router with a carbide ball bearing guide bit,
cut a .1/8" thick plexiglass test panel. The clear plexi prototype lets you
mount all the new goodies in the glider and see any conflicts behind the
panel while validating the new layout.

Loop this process until you run out of patience or have the exact layout you
like. Then, use the final template and the router to cut the actual panel
out of your material of choice.

If this strikes you as way too much work, use a PC CAD program to lay out
the panel and e-mail a .DXF file to a laser cutting shop who will cut the
new panel for you. Some will even cut plexi test panels for you to play
with. Hint: to get the panel outline right, trace the old panel on a large
sheet of graph paper and then transfer the grid points to the CAD program.

If you choose aluminum for the actual panel, you can have that black
anodized for another $75.

Bill Daniels

[Marc Ramsey]

Bill Daniels wrote:
> I think your question was about panel layout and not the actual construction
> of a panel, but the following may help even if it is a bit of a thread fork.

The 300 (along with all single seat DGs) uses a molded fiberglass panel
which is also the primary structural element of the instrument pod. It
might be possible to fold up an aluminum sheet replacement, but that
probably can't be done right with home shop tools. It is likely cheaper
and easier to buy a new blank panel from AMS.

Back to the original topic: there are two standard layouts that people
have used, both have three 80mm instruments across the top. The early
choice (from the days when most instruments were 80mm) was two 57mm
holes in the second row (one of which is missing on the OPs glider) with
an 80mm hole centered below. Later on, most people put four 57mm holes
in two rows in the lower part of the panel. You can put an additional
57mm+ instrument in the pedestal that supports the instrument pod, this
is where the radio usually goes, along with fuses, power switches, etc.

It is pretty difficult to come up with workable alternative arrangements
(although you can obviously omit holes), as there are various clearance
issues with the pod cover. You may also run into troubles with long
57mm instruments in the lower part of the panel, I couldn't get a B50 to
fit properly down there, and (while I haven't tried it) to get a 302 to
fit you may need to take the cover off the serial cable connector. I've
seen some ugly looking mods to the cover to allow for alternative
arrangements and deeper instruments, don't go there if you don't have
to. If I can find a picture of my 303 panel (latter arrangement above,
with compass in panel), I'll post a link...

Marc

[[email protected]]

I've sent the original poster photos of my panel before and after
changes I had done.

Within reason it is possible to fiberglass patch existing holes and
redrill them. I'd go this route instead of trying to fabricate a new
panel. I had this done to my DG-303. As Marc says the tapered sides of
the instument panel shroud are a problem. In my case this prevented the
normal Becker transponders or radios being mounted in the lower panel
cutouts. (the radio normally goes in it's own curout below the main
panel). In my case both 57mm bottom holes in the panel were filled and
a new hole cut in the center of this filled area to accoodate a Becker
radio, a Becker transponder was installed where the radio normlly goes.
Of course you lose an instument position.

It is also possible to cut the instument shroud and make fabricate on a
"bubble" to accomodate the longer instuments but I didn't want to do
this. Becker also makes remote mount radios and transponders but they
are more expensive and you have to find somewere to install the remote
unit.


Darryl

[[email protected]]

Folks, please don't use aluminum panels. The edge of that
panel can act like a knife in an accident (and yes, this has
happened and lets skip the gory details). For this reason
I believe most manufacturers have gone to a glass panel
with a molded flange. Its easy to make one of these; you
can use the old one to make a mold if you don't want to
buy one from AMS.

Be safe out there,
Best Regards, Dave

[Marc Ramsey]

wrote:
> Folks, please don't use aluminum panels. The edge of that
> panel can act like a knife in an accident (and yes, this has
> happened and lets skip the gory details). For this reason
> I believe most manufacturers have gone to a glass panel
> with a molded flange. Its easy to make one of these; you
> can use the old one to make a mold if you don't want to
> buy one from AMS.

Of course, this really only applies to some of those other German glider
companies that used aluminum instrument panels as fuselage structural
members. DG has always given a lot of consideration to the safety of
the pilot, long before it became popular...

Marc

[Eric Greenwell]

Bill Daniels wrote:

> Loop this process until you run out of patience or have the exact layout you
> like. Then, use the final template and the router to cut the actual panel
> out of your material of choice.
>
> If this strikes you as way too much work, use a PC CAD program to lay out
> the panel and e-mail a .DXF file to a laser cutting shop who will cut the
> new panel for you. Some will even cut plexi test panels for you to play
> with. Hint: to get the panel outline right, trace the old panel on a large
> sheet of graph paper and then transfer the grid points to the CAD program.

You take a look at try http://emachineshop.com/, which provides an easy
to use CAD program that will provide immediate quotes from the drawing
you make. A large choice of materials and finishes is available,
including fiberglass sheet.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[[email protected]]

Thanks Bill, I just happen to have some 1/8" plexiglass in my shop
from when I built my router table, so I have that tool too! I might
try and get hold of a carbon fiber blank and use that for a svelt
looking panel!

[Tom Dukerich]

Gerard,

There are good resources within ASA that can offer some ideas and have
machine tools. For example, cut out the face of your existing panel,
leaving the perimeter flange and a small portion of the face intact.
Make a new face out out aluminum that is full size. Fasten the new face
to the old flange portion.

Tom

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 12:53:36
-0800, Gprosnier wrote:

> Thanks Bill, I just happen to have some 1/8" plexiglass in my shop
> from when I built my router table, so I have that tool too! I might
> try and get hold of a carbon fiber blank and use that for a svelt
> looking panel!

[Gary Evans]

E-Machine is a great service. I have used it to produce
some fairly complicated CNC aluminum parts. They are
not cheap, fast (typically 4 weeks) nor will their
software handle much in compound curves but then again
you don't have to take a course to understand it.



At 20:42 28 January 2006, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>Bill Daniels wrote:
>
>> Loop this process until you run out of patience or
>>have the exact layout you
>> like. Then, use the final template and the router
>>to cut the actual panel
>> out of your material of choice.
>>
>> If this strikes you as way too much work, use a PC
>>CAD program to lay out
>> the panel and e-mail a .DXF file to a laser cutting
>>shop who will cut the
>> new panel for you. Some will even cut plexi test
>>panels for you to play
>> with. Hint: to get the panel outline right, trace
>>the old panel on a large
>> sheet of graph paper and then transfer the grid points
>>to the CAD program.
>
>You take a look at try http://emachineshop.com/, which
>provides an easy
>to use CAD program that will provide immediate quotes
>from the drawing
>you make. A large choice of materials and finishes
>is available,
>including fiberglass sheet.
>
>--
>Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly
>
>Eric Greenwell
>Washington State
>USA
>

[Bruce]

wrote:
> Thanks Bill, I just happen to have some 1/8" plexiglass in my shop
> from when I built my router table, so I have that tool too! I might
> try and get hold of a carbon fiber blank and use that for a svelt
> looking panel!
>
Carbon is not a good idea for an instrument panel. In a crash it will be strong
enough to break legs before it breaks, and when it does break it will be sharp
enough to lacerate efficiently.

There are good safety reasons for the BGA recommendation of building a nice, not
too strong instrument panel in glass fibre.

--
Bruce Greeff
Std Cirrus #57
I'm no-T at the address above.

[Bill Daniels]

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>> Thanks Bill, I just happen to have some 1/8" plexiglass in my shop
>> from when I built my router table, so I have that tool too! I might
>> try and get hold of a carbon fiber blank and use that for a svelt
>> looking panel!
>>
> Carbon is not a good idea for an instrument panel. In a crash it will be
> strong enough to break legs before it breaks, and when it does break it
> will be sharp enough to lacerate efficiently.
>
> There are good safety reasons for the BGA recommendation of building a
> nice, not too strong instrument panel in glass fibre.
>
> --
> Bruce Greeff
> Std Cirrus #57
> I'm no-T at the address above.

I understand the crash protection concerns but changing materials in an
older glider worries me. It's quite possible that the instrument panel is
itself a structural member - even if in hindsight that was a bad idea.
Replace the solid original with a frangible one and you may have compromised
cockpit strength perhaps gaining nothing or even losing a little safety in
the process.

Old glider are, well, old gliders and there are risks associated with flying
them. You get what you pay for. If you really want the latest in crash
protection, dust off the checkbook and buy a new one.

Bill Daniels

[Bruce]

Bill Daniels wrote:
> "Bruce" > wrote in message
> ...
>
wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks Bill, I just happen to have some 1/8" plexiglass in my shop
>>>from when I built my router table, so I have that tool too! I might
>>>try and get hold of a carbon fiber blank and use that for a svelt
>>>looking panel!
>>>
>>
>>Carbon is not a good idea for an instrument panel. In a crash it will be
>>strong enough to break legs before it breaks, and when it does break it
>>will be sharp enough to lacerate efficiently.
>>
>>There are good safety reasons for the BGA recommendation of building a
>>nice, not too strong instrument panel in glass fibre.
>>
>>--
>>Bruce Greeff
>>Std Cirrus #57
>>I'm no-T at the address above.
>
>
> I understand the crash protection concerns but changing materials in an
> older glider worries me. It's quite possible that the instrument panel is
> itself a structural member - even if in hindsight that was a bad idea.
> Replace the solid original with a frangible one and you may have compromised
> cockpit strength perhaps gaining nothing or even losing a little safety in
> the process.
>
> Old glider are, well, old gliders and there are risks associated with flying
> them. You get what you pay for. If you really want the latest in crash
> protection, dust off the checkbook and buy a new one.
>
> Bill Daniels
>
>
Hi Bill

My Cirrus still has the original aluminium panel, partly for this reason.
However, if you have decided to play aero engineer and replace it, the current
view is that a frangible design is preferable.

--
Bruce Greeff
Std Cirrus #57
I'm no-T at the address above.

[Airthug]

When I flew the 300 it hurt my knees going around the pod & feet close
together in the nose.
Combined with the excellent view, I had always wanted to ELIMINATE the
instrument pod & use 2" instruments mounted along the sides below the
frame rails.

I think it would be awsome to have the unrestricted view & the legroom.

Who says we need an instrument panel in our faces? we're VFR !
Not that I expect anyone to do it, but if I had owned the 300, I would
have.

[[email protected]]

Hi Bill - As I understand it, the DG in question currently
has a fiberglass panel. Changing to aluminum would
thus be a step backwards in safety.
Lets be safe out there,
Best Regards, Dave "YO"