Re: KLN94 updates with Sandisk writer - unit-specific?

[Peter Clark]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 12:31:20 +0000, wrote:

>
>I have a KLN94 and have been offered one of the old Sandisk compact
>flash writers (USB) that Bendix King used to sell.
>
>I know that if one downloads the data into a laptop and uses the cable
>to transfer it to the KLN94, that data is specific to that KLN94
>serialnumber.
>
>But is the compact flash card written with the Sandisk writer
>similarly GPS unit specific? I cannot see how it could be. Is there
>any way to write out a backup flash card for example (I have a spare
>flash card from BK).

Using the serial cable to the front of the GPS doesn't make the card
unit-specific either.

The download asks you for the GPS data key, not the serial number.
That key is *card* specific. Once correctly written to a card,
however it's written (front panel jack, SanDisk writer, PCMCIA writer
whatever), the card can then be used in any KLN94. You can even take
a card written via the front panel and then use it in another
aircraft's KLN94.

The way I do it is use the software to read the data key from the card
I'm about to write, use that code to download the cycle file and write
the card, take card to aircraft and swap. Repeat for next cycle. You
can do this for 1 or 50 spare cards.

[Peter Clark]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:19:10 +0000, wrote:

>
>Peter Clark > wrote
>
>>Using the serial cable to the front of the GPS doesn't make the card
>>unit-specific either.
>>
>>The download asks you for the GPS data key, not the serial number.
>>That key is *card* specific.
>
>That's news to me. Admittedly I have never done this (I have been
>purchasing flash cards from BK, returning the old one to them each
>time) but looking at the instructions for the downloading process it
>looks like the key I have to enter is specific to the KLN94, not the
>flash card plugged into it.
>
>What you say suggests each flash card is serialised and it is this
>number (or a function of it) that appears in the appropriate KLN94
>screen. Is this correct?

That's the deal.

>However, can I download the software, write one card (say using the
>Sandisk writer), then download the software again and write another
>card (if I have a spare card)? Let's say I pay for a 28-day
>subscription; can I write the same cycle to two cards?

No. Once you generate your file on their website, it's only good for
that one card.

>Could you write the *same* cycle (say 09/05) to two different flash
>cards? As I've mentioned I have a spare flash card, from BK.

Yes and no. Yes, you can write the one cycle to as many cards as you
have download credits to burn up. No, you cannot use the *same*
downloaded file (generated against the first cards key) and put it on
multiple cards.

>I am aware the cards are modified so they cannot be simply duplicated
>in a conventional compact flash writer.

I guess I'm not sure why you would want to? The likelihood of the
card frying is pretty infinitesimal compared to the likelihood of the
unit frying, and you can take that already written card and put it in
the replacement unit. In over 3 years of helping take care of 15
different aircrafts KLN94 databases, I've only seen one defective card
(and it wasn't one that was once working and subsequently died, it
came in the monthly update envelope bad). I've seen 5 different GPS
units replaced though....

In the event that a working card did fry, I would call Wingman and
explain the situation to them and get another download credited to the
account so you could re-generate the current cycle and download it to
the spare card, but their intended use for the spare card is to get
the next cycle at home, and just carry the card out to the aircraft,
not to have two cards running around with the same cycle. From their
point of view, the only reason you'd always (rather than a one-time
"help me" event) want to have two cards with the exact same cycle
running around at the exact same time would be your possession of
multiple GPS units, which would require multiple licenses (and thus
appropriate downloads charged to your account).

[Peter R.]

> wrote:

> That's news to me. Admittedly I have never done this (I have been
> purchasing flash cards from BK, returning the old one to them each
> time) but looking at the instructions for the downloading process it
> looks like the key I have to enter is specific to the KLN94, not the
> flash card plugged into it.

What you are seeing is the key of the card in your KLN94. Note the next
time you install an update card you receive from BK, it will have a
different key number.

--
Peter

[Peter R.]

"Peter R." > wrote:

> it will have a
> different key number.

"It" being "the GPS" and "will have a different key number" being "will
display a different key number when you bring up the key page in the GPS."

Sorry for the ambiguity of the other post.

--
Peter

[[email protected]]

BTW, if you are looking for the firmware-updated ImageMate SDDR-31
(from SanDisk) that's used for the KLN94 database update, I have them
for sale for $30 (plus S&H). Visit http://www.gryphonaire.com/ for
more information. A few other people sell them, but as far as I know
they all charge more than that...

You can also e-mail us at

[[email protected]]

You can also the firmware-updated ImageMate SDDR-31 (from SanDisk)
that's used for the KLN94 database update, free from here:
https://www3.bendixking.com/wingman/Gps/download/wucontent.jsp, a few
other peolpe sell them but it is free from Bendix King web site.

[Peter Clark]

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:13:54 +0000, Peter >
wrote:

>
> wrote:
>
>>You can also the firmware-updated ImageMate SDDR-31 (from SanDisk)
>>that's used for the KLN94 database update, free from here:
>>https://www3.bendixking.com/wingman/Gps/download/wucontent.jsp, a few
>>other peolpe sell them but it is free from Bendix King web site.
>
>I am posting onto an old thread, but there isn't a free *reader*
>available; all they offer is the software. Both the PC software and
>the SDDR31 firmware update are free from Honeywell.
>
>I have just started using my SDDR31, purchased in 2003 from the
>contact Honeywell gave me... I installed the latest v1.5 PC loader,
>purchased the full year's sub, went to the aircraft and got the KLN94
>database key, downloaded the data from Honeywell, started up the
>loader program, opened up the database.exe file, and the thing just
>kept asking if I had previously used a non-KLN94 flash card... then it
>would crash. Eventually, after installing the whole lot on another PC,
>and answering the above questions in a different combination, I
>managed to get the flash card to program. BUT the loader program says
>it changed the database key (how kind of it - not!!) to a different
>value.

The cards do that. It appears random to me. I can't seem to pinpoint
what prompts the change, but mine have changed a number of times since
the first card.

>The question is whether this new database key is going to work in the
>KLN94... luckily the card I programmed was a spare one which Homeywell
>sent me a couple of years ago, not the one currently in the KLN94. The
>card I programmed was clearly a previously used card (had a 2003 date
>on it) and perhaps it was programmed under a different database key by
>the previous user. Can such a card be used in my KLN94? I thought the
>KLN94 database key was in the KLN94 unit itself, so only cards
>programmed under *that* key would work in *that* KLN94.

Any valid card works in any KLN94. All the KLN94 does is read the key
from the card and display it to you, just like the programming
software's "read key" function.

>The following post from earlier in this thread, from Peter Clark,
>seems to answer this
>
>>The download asks you for the GPS data key, not the serial number.
>>That key is *card* specific. Once correctly written to a card,
>>however it's written (front panel jack, SanDisk writer, PCMCIA writer
>>whatever), the card can then be used in any KLN94. You can even take
>>a card written via the front panel and then use it in another
>>aircraft's KLN94.
>>
>>The way I do it is use the software to read the data key from the card
>>I'm about to write, use that code to download the cycle file and write
>>the card, take card to aircraft and swap. Repeat for next cycle. You
>>can do this for 1 or 50 spare cards.
>
>A weird system, and evidently unreliable.

What makes you say that? Check key, download file, flash card. It
eliminates the chance of my giving the downloader the key for the
other card and thus burning a useless card. It's worked for me for 3
years with no issues.

>I read somewhere that Honeywell had a loader program that supported
>current-model CF writers - is this true? The SDDR31 supplies are bound
>to dry up soon, as is the availability of the win98 computers that are
>needed to update the SDDR31 firmware.

I've not seen a new loader which works with normal CF writers. As for
Win98 computers, does the loader require a DOS prompt like a BIOS
update or does it flash from Windows mode?

[Peter Clark]

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:47:49 +0000, Peter >
wrote:

>To add: I have just downloaded the same database update, under the new
>key which came from the spare CF card. Yesterday I downloaded the
>database update under the key displayed by the KLN94.
>
>So it looks like one can download the same database update, under
>different keys, and obviously load it to different cards.
>
>I didn't think this was possible!

You can download the database as many times as you want, but if you do
anything other than "re-download the database you already generated"
you are *CHARGED* with an additional download. Their download
counters are done by *download* not *cycle*. If you bought 12
downloads you are now down to 10 instead of 11.

[Peter Clark]

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:23:37 +0000, Peter >
wrote:

>
>
>>The cards do that. It appears random to me. I can't seem to pinpoint
>>what prompts the change, but mine have changed a number of times since
>>the first card.
>
>The question is whether the key change causes the previous download to
>be trashed. I don't think it does. The thing is... next time you do a
>DL you will be using a new key. If I was Honeywell, I would think that
>somebody else is using this person's account!

I don't think Honeywell really cares. Good key, good card, we got
paid. If you can't keep your account's username and password secure,
oh well....

>If it wasn't for this random key changing, every DL would use the same
>key (because most KLN94 owners will not have a spare card).

I don't know why they change it. Doesn't make sense to me either but
I guess there has to be some reason behind it.

>>I've not seen a new loader which works with normal CF writers. As for
>>Win98 computers, does the loader require a DOS prompt like a BIOS
>>update or does it flash from Windows mode?
>
>The win98 comment applies only to the SDDR31 *firmware* update. The
>readme files make this clear. The database loader is claimed to work
>under everything up to XP.

Yea, and I asked if it's a DOS mode app or a Windows app since if it's
DOS mode, a Win98 boot disk (like I use to flash motherboard BIOS
chips) with USB drivers would be sufficient to boot up and flash it.

>My SDDR31 is already at v2.2 - my firmware update in 2003 must have
>worked :) That was done under win98, not from any kind of DOS prompt
>IIRC.

Interesting.

>Honeywell's loader program does mention a PCMCIA CF writer as an
>alternative to the SDDR31.

Unfortunately, the PCMCIA option doesn't work under any flavor of NT
or derivatives (a-la XP).

>I've just installed the loader on yet another PC - a Dell Latitude
>laptop, and the SDDR31 doesn't work at all. So I have just one PC (out
>of 3) on which it works, and even then it works only on a direct
>motherboard USB port. No hub, even a fully powered one, works with it.
>The PCMCIA option could be interesting...

I haven't attempted to use a hub but haven't had a problem with the
SDDR on 3 Dell laptops, a Toshiba laptop, and 3 desktop (ABIT and Asus
motherboards) that I've done. Maybe it draws too much current for the
hub?

>Speaking to other pilots, I think nearly all KLN94 users use the cable
>update method, with very few using the SDDR31.

Without a docking station that must be fun in the winter. 15-20min to
load to the GPS, then another 10-15 to copy to internal flash.... do
they still have enough juice to crank the engine without a jump when
they're done?

[Ross Richardson]

This is a real interesting thread. Excuse me for jumping in late. I have
a KLN89/B and do the internet downloads. I have a yearly subscription.
The 89/B cannot be programmed like the 94. I have checked with Honeywell
B-K. I really thought the database key was imbedded in the OS software
in the GPS. Since I have to take a laptop to the plane each time, I
never remove the datacard or change it. I just hook a cable from the
laptop RS-232 port to the funky connector that B-K uses in the
installation manual. I have never had the database key change on me. And
the other poster is correct. If for some reason you want to download the
current existing database that you already downloaded be sure to make
the correct selection. It takes about 10 minutes to upload the DB to the
89/B. I have never had a problem in the 7 years I have been doing this.
I turn off everything I can. The only thing that runs is the 89/B,
enunciator, and the T&B indicator. I just wish in the 89/B that I could
pull the card and program only it at home.

Ross

Peter wrote:

> Peter > wrote
>
>
>>The curious thing is that when Honeywell "reset" my download account
>>yesterday, they restored it back to 12 downloads left. I have one new
>>download in my card, which makes this correct (I should have 12 left).
>>However this means that the original DL I did (prior to the random key
>>change) must have reduced my DL count by 1, which is clearly wrong. I
>>bet they get a lot of this...
>
>
> Let me be more precise about this...
>
> Let's say you have a card with a key of XXXXXXXX
>
> You DL a database under key XXXXXXXX
>
> Upon completion of the card update, the loader program, as part of its
> random key changing routine, says it is changing the key to YYYYYYYY
> and that you should use YYYYYYYY from now on.
>
> If you now (same day) DL another database file under YYYYYYYY, you
> still have only *one* database, in that one and the same card, but
> your DL count has gone down by TWO downloads.
>
> This is what I did... not realising that YYYYYYYY is not to be used
> until the next database cycle.