City Airport Problem

[Dick]

Wondering how many others have had this problem with a city-run airport.

City gets new insurance carrier and conducts a hanger inspection including
various "code enforcement" types.

Per letter to each renter, violations seem to be of three types:
1) Valid such as temporary, non-code wiring, out of date fire extinquishers,
etc.
2) Items normally supporting FAA approved owner maintenance per reg 5190.6A.
ie: tools, chemicals, polishes, touchup paint, air compressors, etc.
3) Renter emotional items. ie: refrigerator, golf carts, autos, motorcycles,
bicycles, Bar-B-Q's, chairs, tables, storage cabinets, misc household items,
etc.

Most renters believe that as long as their hanger includes an "N" numbered
plane, anything else goes as long as safety isn't compromised since it is
"their" space.

Apparently people found out years ago that airport hangers were (not now)
cheaper than other types of rental storage.

Complicating the situation is that the renters were coerced several years
ago into signing a lease which essentially eliminated everything except
"N" numbered aircraft storage.

It eliminated all maintenance on certified craft and building homebuilt,
experimental projects as well as anything perceived as "commercial" activity
by the renter. Also included sub-leasing.

Here in mid-state there are many outside the area that would like to escape
their much higher rental costs and willingly pay more than the current city
rate.

Worst scenario for the couple hundred of us: City drives us out, raises
rent, newbees happy as saving some. Maintenance and experimental is gone.

Thoughts?
Dick

[COLIN LAMB]

Move to Wyoming, buy a square mile of property and build your own hangar and
runway. Then, you can put anything you want inside.

My friend bought such a place, with an existing hangar and runway, and does
not even fly. He puts anything he wants into the hangar and raises cows on
the runway.

And, he did not even need a building permit for his house.

Colin

[Rich S.]

"Dick" > wrote in message
t...
> Worst scenario for the couple hundred of us: City drives us out, raises
> rent, newbees happy as saving some. Maintenance and experimental is gone.

It's a bit worse at places like Boeing Field (King County International) in
Seattle. Folks like Paul Allen and Bill Gates lease the land where there are
tens of T-hangars, tear them down and build one large hangar for their 767.
What few T-hangars are left have astronomical rent.

Rich S.

[NVArt]

Or move to Hawthorne, NV (HTH). Airport Commission decides things. All
five members
are pilots. We get what we want. Loads of room for more hangars, guys.
Dirt cheap rent.
130 miles south of Reno. 350 VFR days a year.

Blue Skies!
N5217D

Art

[[email protected]]

>>Move to Wyoming, buy a square mile of property and build your own hangar and
runway. Then, you can put anything you want inside.<<

Got to put it inside - or it will blow away.
That's probably what happened to the former owners airplane - and why
the property was for sale :-)
===============
Leon McAtee
Down south they call it a huricane.........here it's just another
Tuesday.

[.Blueskies.]

What city?

[NVArt]

..Blueskies. wrote:
> What city?

Um, my reply was to the group, if there was a misunderstanding as to if
I posted specifically to "Blueskies". Sorry
Hawthorne, NV

Art

[Anthony W]

I have to admit that I've been thinking about just that for the past 3
years. Every summer when I see my aunt, she gives me pitch for moving
there.

Tony

NV Art wrote:
> Or move to Hawthorne, NV (HTH). Airport Commission decides things. All
> five members
> are pilots. We get what we want. Loads of room for more hangars, guys.
> Dirt cheap rent.
> 130 miles south of Reno. 350 VFR days a year.
>
> Blue Skies!
> N5217D
>
> Art

[Roger]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:14:45 GMT, "Dick" > wrote:

>Wondering how many others have had this problem with a city-run airport.
>
>City gets new insurance carrier and conducts a hanger inspection including
>various "code enforcement" types.
>
Or city lawyer gets bug up ass worrying about liability


>Per letter to each renter, violations seem to be of three types:
>1) Valid such as temporary, non-code wiring, out of date fire extinquishers,
>etc.

These are valid concerns.

>2) Items normally supporting FAA approved owner maintenance per reg 5190.6A.
>ie: tools, chemicals, polishes, touchup paint, air compressors, etc.

As long as they are in approved containers, or in a storage cabinet we
have no problem, other than no painting in hangars. You paint your
plane and you'll be paining at least four or five others.

>3) Renter emotional items. ie: refrigerator, golf carts, autos, motorcycles,
>bicycles, Bar-B-Q's, chairs, tables, storage cabinets, misc household items,
>etc.

Refreg for storing beer for hangar flying, tables, chairs, storage
cabinets...no problem. Leases have stated hangars are for airplanes
and essentials, but have never really been enforced.

>
>Most renters believe that as long as their hanger includes an "N" numbered
>plane, anything else goes as long as safety isn't compromised since it is
>"their" space.

If it's like ours, it's not their space even if they built the hangar
as the space is leased from the city and the lease comes with rules
even if they haven't been enforcing them.

>
>Apparently people found out years ago that airport hangers were (not now)
>cheaper than other types of rental storage.

And that abuse is what has led to the lawyers and insurance companies
over reacting. Last week I helped push, or I should say, "shoe horn"
a 172 into a hangar between a camper, chairs, desks, stacks of ...
well... all kinds of stuff. That plane fit with only inches to spare
on all sides. It's that sort of thing that leads to those rules. That
hangar needs a 50# extinguisher in each corner and maybe a sprinkler
system as well. It's actually worse than my den where I'm sitting
between computers, my ham station and 6 book cases. and the floor
needs cleaning.

>
>Complicating the situation is that the renters were coerced several years
>ago into signing a lease which essentially eliminated everything except
>"N" numbered aircraft storage.

It depends on the form and whether it can be shown you had no choice.

>
>It eliminated all maintenance on certified craft and building homebuilt,
>experimental projects as well as anything perceived as "commercial" activity
>by the renter. Also included sub-leasing.

I think for that you need to get the AOPA and EAA involved. They can
readily tell you what you have for options, or if you have any.
They've scared more than one city into becoming a bit more friendly
towards aircraft owners.

Basically if they have received federal grants, have an FBO on the
field and prevent maintenance in the hangars it's a form of
discrimination as is the experimental part. If the airport has
received federal money they may not discriminate against aircraft type
and I think not being allowed to do your own maintenance, or have it
done in your hanger is pushing things a bit far.

>
>Here in mid-state there are many outside the area that would like to escape
>their much higher rental costs and willingly pay more than the current city
>rate.
>
>Worst scenario for the couple hundred of us: City drives us out, raises
>rent, newbees happy as saving some. Maintenance and experimental is gone.

If they do that here the city would be involved in litigation for
years. We have a *lot* of EAA members with about 6 or 8 flying and
about that many more about ready to go. Maybe more. We have a large
EAA Educational center that also has a heated hangar where members may
do the "final assembly stage" on their airplanes...for a nominal fee.
In the summers there are always at least three or four hangars with
the doors open with builders working on projects.

They are updating the rules and regs. The FBO was "****ed" that so
many cars were parking around the "ghetto (SP) hangar, but those
people probably fly more than the rest of the pilots put together out
there. We have a number of hangar parties and they were going to
eliminate alcohol on the airport with zero tolerance. That has been
dropped (guess they didn't like the smell of tar and feathers). There
were to be designated parking areas with all but the specific pilots
parking outside the fence and the pilots in specific parking areas in
the fence. There are a lot of us who pull right up to the hangar door
and that is where we park If I have stuff brought out I expect to see
it brought to the hangar. I think that one has been shot down as well
although we may get card operated gates. Of course the first time we
have a power failure with a bunch of cars inside (they are common
around this part of the state) some one will get out the big two
handled skeleton keys and the gates will no longer require cards.
Either that or they have to provide a way of opening the gates without
power. We may still get this by they are talking of only when the
terminal is not in operation.

They did hit on the maintenance angle until they had it pointed out
they could not prevent owners from hiring mechanics to do work on
their planes or the owners working on them if the planes are
experimental. Planes need work, planes can't always fly to another
field, they can not legally require they use the local FBO, and that
didn't leave them much choice.

They also said no open flame heaters, but many of us use the big LP
fired heaters to take the chill off and will continue to do so. The
grills stay for the hangar parties.

They were a bit up tight about some owners camping in the hangars
during the county fair. The grounds are adjacent. This was met with
a resounding, "so what?". They hurt nothing and it actually adds to
the airport security having pilots on the field at night. Last I knew
that one had been dropped after further investigation as it had been
going on for years.

So, "it appears" we are in pretty good shape, but you never know what
the city may decide to do on short notice.

A couple of times in the past few years they have proposed some
onerous rules, but in each case have listened to reason although we
did resort to the AOPA when the neighbors were complaining. Now that
complaints have to be recorded and disclosed when they sell, we
rarely hear much.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Thoughts?
> Dick
>

[Scott]

Remember Meigs!

Scott




>
> So, "it appears" we are in pretty good shape, but you never know what
> the city may decide to do on short notice.
>

>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>>Thoughts?
>>Dick
>>

[Morgans]

>>Wondering how many others have had this problem with a city-run airport.
>>
>>City gets new insurance carrier and conducts a hanger inspection
>>including
>>various "code enforcement" types.
>>
> Or city lawyer gets bug up ass worrying about liability

Get this one!

Hickory NC has the base for the NC Forestry Dept CL 215 (water bomber
amphibian), and in the off season, they tear the whole thing down, engines
included, and give it a good "going over."

The building does not have some things in place (sprinkler system included,
I think) to be qualified to house these types of activities. For the whole
time that this tear down is going on, they have to hire a guy (a retired
forestry service friend of mine) to babysit the airplane, all night long.
That makes it legal, then. He cleans parts, and hangs out.

What a system we have going on, in the US, huh?
--
Jim in NC