Re: LS10 info

[Andy Blackburn]

At 15:06 26 January 2006, Bert Willing wrote:
>In rural France, maybe... but then, who wants a house
>there :-)
>
>For an estimation of the 'real price' of a glider,
>real estate is not of
>much help. If you compare it to the mean of yearly
>gross income, you will
>find that gliders haven't become that much more expensive.
>

This will look different depending on where you are
in the overall income distribution, where you live
and the time period, but...

In the US over the past 25 years (my LS-4 was purchased
new in 1980), glider prices have increased roughly
four-fold and household incomes have increased between
2.7x and 3.3x, depending on the part of the income
distribution you're talking about. This means in 1980
a new, current generation racing sailplane cost roughly
1 year, 4 months of household income for the median
household. Today an equivalent new racing sailplane
costs 1 year, 9 months of median household income.
For the households at the threshold of the top 5% of
income earners it has gone from 6.9 months to 7.5 months
of household income.

This is for a new, current generation standard class
glider with a trailer and a full instrumentation suite,
delivered to the US. Of course, the glider you get
in 2005 offers a bit better performance than the one
you got in 1980 and the instruments are far better
(GPS, computer, radios that work). Lack of quality
adjustment is a flaw in a lot of cost of living statistics,
so I'll leave it to each of us to make their own judgements
on that.

And of course, most of us move up in the income distribution
over our careers, so over time (at least until retirement)
a new glider should get more affordable. That at least
has been my happy experience.

9B

[Bert Willing]

The difference in what you get today in comparison of what you've got 20
years ago is not just "a bit".
Instead of an ASW20 with 41:1, you get 15-20% more performance, plus the
ability to go to >50 kg/m2, plus a (more) crashworthy cockpit, plus
automatic hookup.

Now, if you don't like it (or like me, can't afford it), go and buy the
ASW20. Same price tag as 25 years ago, same performance. It's not new, but
that doesn't make any difference.

I just don't understand this mourning about what the new glider market looks
today. The manufacturers build for the market, and obviously this market
demands top notch stuff. Of course once a while a manufacturer goes belly
up, but that doesn't mean its products were off the demand - there are many
reasons why a company can go south.

As for the "low-cost/low performance" market - any investor (and that would
be anybody starting a business) going into this direction just has to look
at the PW5 story to think twice about where to put his money.

"Andy Blackburn" > wrote in message
...
> This is for a new, current generation standard class
> glider with a trailer and a full instrumentation suite,
> delivered to the US. Of course, the glider you get
> in 2005 offers a bit better performance than the one
> you got in 1980 and the instruments are far better
> (GPS, computer, radios that work). Lack of quality
> adjustment is a flaw in a lot of cost of living statistics,
> so I'll leave it to each of us to make their own judgements
> on that.
>
> And of course, most of us move up in the income distribution
> over our careers, so over time (at least until retirement)
> a new glider should get more affordable. That at least
> has been my happy experience.
>
> 9B
>
>
>

[Mike the Strike]

Glider prices have been fairly well in line with overall cost of living
as several folks have noted. I don't like to fly a ship worth more
than a year's salary, but have a much nicer glider than I had twenty
years ago at a lower cost than that.

If the USA had a more sustainable fiscal policy, perhaps our currency
would be stronger and the present 20% loss against the Euro wouldn't
create so many whiners over here!

Mike

[HL Falbaum]

"Bert Willing" > wrote in message
...
> The difference in what you get today in comparison of what you've got 20
> years ago is not just "a bit".
> Instead of an ASW20 with 41:1, you get 15-20% more performance, plus the
> ability to go to >50 kg/m2, plus a (more) crashworthy cockpit, plus
> automatic hookup.
>
> Now, if you don't like it (or like me, can't afford it), go and buy the
> ASW20. Same price tag as 25 years ago, same performance. It's not new, but
> that doesn't make any difference.
>

There are other factors which must be considered. Gelcoat deteriorates,
metals corrode, bearings become rough from dirt and lack of care,
instruments need updating or replacing etc-----(compare a new Winter variio
with a 25yr old one in the same plane and see the difference)---flight
computers need updating etc. So we are not really comparing the same thing.
Price shop for a gelcoat refinish for a ASW20 and you'll see about 20K USD
quoted. Yes you can send it to Poland or Slovenia for less but still a
sizeable amount. A recently refinished glider may or may not be a bargain
also, depending on who did the work.

It is certainly not an "investment" in the financial sense, though it is
better than a car. It is an investment in the spirit and quality of life. If
you can't afford the very best, buy the very best you can afford!

Hartley Falbaum
ASW27B "KF" USA