Buddy Holly crash

[Dan Luke]

This contains an angle on the story that I'd never heard before: that
Holly's pilot radioed another pilot that he was in trouble just before
the crash.

http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/articles/2006/02/04/news/news01.txt


--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[[email protected]]

Dan Luke wrote:
> This contains an angle on the story that I'd never heard before: that
> Holly's pilot radioed another pilot that he was in trouble just before
> the crash.
>
> http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/articles/2006/02/04/news/news01.txt
>
>
That is a weird article.

Sounds like what we read in Southern California every time someone
prangs into the mountains around here during a winter storm. "Oh, he
was such a good pilot!" (translated, "Now, if only that nasty mountain
hadn't gotten in his way!")

[Dan Luke]

> wrote:

> Dan Luke wrote:
>> This contains an angle on the story that I'd never heard before: that
>> Holly's pilot radioed another pilot that he was in trouble just
>> before the crash.
>>
>> http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/articles/2006/02/04/news/news01.txt
>>
>>
> That is a weird article.
>
> Sounds like what we read in Southern California every time someone
> prangs into the mountains around here during a winter storm. "Oh, he
> was such a good pilot!" (translated, "Now, if only that nasty
> mountain hadn't gotten in his way!")

True.

Have you ever read of anyone's saying: "He was a careless guy who was
bound to crash someday?"

If one goes by the media testimony of acquaintences, only good pilots
crash.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Tony]

Absent and real evidence, what would any pilot in this newsgroup
suggest as the acause of the crash if he read a 700 total time non
instrument rated pilot took off at night, flew into IMC and icing, and
crashed?

Sure, there are exceptions, but come on, guys and gals. 90 degree bank
at impact does not suggest the airplane was under control, does it?

[[email protected]]

Dan Luke > wrote:
> Have you ever read of anyone's saying: "He was a careless guy who was
> bound to crash someday?"

Actually, yes. A very experienced pilot was killed and his passenger
almost killed when doing something the whole aviation community had seen
him repeatedly do, and many of his peers had counseled him. Very sad
that it happened, of course ... but yes, people predicted it before it
happened and were saying *exactly* what you quoted above after.

[[email protected]]

Dan Luke wrote:
> > wrote:

>>
>>Sounds like what we read in Southern California every time someone
>>prangs into the mountains around here during a winter storm. "Oh, he
>>was such a good pilot!" (translated, "Now, if only that nasty
>>mountain hadn't gotten in his way!")
>
>
> True.
>
> Have you ever read of anyone's saying: "He was a careless guy who was
> bound to crash someday?"
>
No. But, I heard it a lot in my airport bum days.

[Dan Luke]

> wrote:

>> Have you ever read of anyone's saying: "He was a careless guy who
>> was
>> bound to crash someday?"
>
> Actually, yes. A very experienced pilot was killed and his passenger
> almost killed when doing something the whole aviation community had
> seen
> him repeatedly do, and many of his peers had counseled him. Very sad
> that it happened, of course ... but yes, people predicted it before it
> happened and were saying *exactly* what you quoted above after.

Yes, but we were talking about what we see quoted in the media.

A recent fatal crash around here had very similar circumstances to the
ones you describe, but the "We told him so!" comments never appeared on
TV.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[JPH]

Dan Luke wrote:
> > wrote:

>>
>>Sounds like what we read in Southern California every time someone
>>prangs into the mountains around here during a winter storm. "Oh, he
>>was such a good pilot!" (translated, "Now, if only that nasty
>>mountain hadn't gotten in his way!")
>
>
> True.
>
> Have you ever read of anyone's saying: "He was a careless guy who was
> bound to crash someday?"
>
Yes, as a matter of fact. Several USAF Officers had complained about
"Colonel Bud Holland's" flying for a long time until the fatal crash of
a B-52 at Fairchild AFB in 1994.
http://www.crm-devel.org/resources/paper/darkblue/darkblue.htm

JPH

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 07:11:49 -0600, "Dan Luke" >
wrote:

>This contains an angle on the story that I'd never heard before: that
>Holly's pilot radioed another pilot that he was in trouble just before
>the crash.
>
>http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/articles/2006/02/04/news/news01.txt

Given a non-instrument rated pilot flying night IMC during conditions
conducive to icing (in a non-ice certified a/c), I would say that he was in
trouble *long* before the crash.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Dave Stadt]

> wrote in message news:ZQrFf.21693$sA3.18220@fed1read02...
> Dan Luke wrote:
>> > wrote:
>
>>>
>>>Sounds like what we read in Southern California every time someone prangs
>>>into the mountains around here during a winter storm. "Oh, he was such a
>>>good pilot!" (translated, "Now, if only that nasty mountain hadn't
>>>gotten in his way!")
>>
>>
>> True.
>>
>> Have you ever read of anyone's saying: "He was a careless guy who was
>> bound to crash someday?"
>>
> No. But, I heard it a lot in my airport bum days.

We call them 'matter of timers.'

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Dan Luke" > wrote:
> Yes, but we were talking about what we see quoted in the media.
>
> A recent fatal crash around here had very similar circumstances to the
> ones you describe, but the "We told him so!" comments never appeared on
> TV.

The "we told him so" comments never appear in the media, which I know is
your point. If they did, there would be little point in even running
the story for today's media.

On the other hand, some pilots are just as guilty of glorifying and
defending accident pilots, which is particularly inexcusable.

Every time I hear of an accident reported in the media, I know I'll hear
two things: "He was an excellent pilot," and "the engine was cutting in
and out," as if the only thing that could possibly make an airplane come
down is an engine failure.



JKG

[Dan Luke]

"Jonathan Goodish" wrote:

> "Dan Luke" > wrote:
>> Yes, but we were talking about what we see quoted in the media.
>>
>> A recent fatal crash around here had very similar circumstances to
>> the
>> ones you describe, but the "We told him so!" comments never appeared
>> on
>> TV.
>
> The "we told him so" comments never appear in the media, which I know
> is
> your point. If they did, there would be little point in even running
> the story for today's media.
>
> On the other hand, some pilots are just as guilty of glorifying and
> defending accident pilots, which is particularly inexcusable.

Yes. Perhaps it is merely reluctance to speak ill of the deceased--at
least publicly.


--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Skylune]

He's here in the database, somewhere...

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/famous.htm

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > On the other hand, some pilots are just as guilty of glorifying and
> > defending accident pilots, which is particularly inexcusable.
>
> Yes. Perhaps it is merely reluctance to speak ill of the deceased--at
> least publicly.

Perhaps, but I suspect that it's reluctance to admit that many GA pilots
aren't as proficient or don't possess the best judgment--and therefore
are not as safe--as we'd like to believe.


JKG

[Mark Hansen]

On 02/06/06 10:18, Jonathan Goodish wrote:
> In article >,
> "Dan Luke" > wrote:
>> > On the other hand, some pilots are just as guilty of glorifying and
>> > defending accident pilots, which is particularly inexcusable.
>>
>> Yes. Perhaps it is merely reluctance to speak ill of the deceased--at
>> least publicly.
>
> Perhaps, but I suspect that it's reluctance to admit that many GA pilots
> aren't as proficient or don't possess the best judgment--and therefore
> are not as safe--as we'd like to believe.
>
>
> JKG

Don't discount the propensity of the media these days to want to
sensationalize news stories. A crash of an airplane by an excellent
pilot is a much bigger story than the crash of an airplane by a
bad pilot. It seems they want to 'prove' that flying is unsafe, and
showing that even the best pilots crash seems to meet that end.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Dan Luke]

"Mark Hansen" wrote:

:
>>> > On the other hand, some pilots are just as guilty of glorifying and
>>> > defending accident pilots, which is particularly inexcusable.
>>>
>>> Yes. Perhaps it is merely reluctance to speak ill of the deceased--at
>>> least publicly.
>>
>> Perhaps, but I suspect that it's reluctance to admit that many GA pilots
>> aren't as proficient or don't possess the best judgment--and therefore are
>> not as safe--as we'd like to believe.
>>
>>
>> JKG
>
> Don't discount the propensity of the media these days to want to
> sensationalize news stories. A crash of an airplane by an excellent
> pilot is a much bigger story than the crash of an airplane by a
> bad pilot.

Seems to me it would be the other way 'round. A rogue is news.

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
Mark Hansen > wrote:
> > Perhaps, but I suspect that it's reluctance to admit that many GA pilots
> > aren't as proficient or don't possess the best judgment--and therefore
> > are not as safe--as we'd like to believe.
> >
> >
> > JKG
>
> Don't discount the propensity of the media these days to want to
> sensationalize news stories. A crash of an airplane by an excellent
> pilot is a much bigger story than the crash of an airplane by a
> bad pilot. It seems they want to 'prove' that flying is unsafe, and
> showing that even the best pilots crash seems to meet that end.

It seems to me that most of the crashes that make the news do not
involve "excellent" pilots--they involve pilots who exercised extremely
poor judgment (usually historically), were operating contrary to
regulation, or were not proficient or qualified for the operation being
conducted. I would agree that the media usually doesn't make these
points clear, or else there would no sensational story. The media would
prefer to encourage the perception that the pilots were excellent and
qualified pilots, with the concluding perception that GA is therefore
unsafe.



JKG

[Mark Hansen]

On 02/06/06 11:54, Jonathan Goodish wrote:
> In article >,
> Mark Hansen > wrote:
>> > Perhaps, but I suspect that it's reluctance to admit that many GA pilots
>> > aren't as proficient or don't possess the best judgment--and therefore
>> > are not as safe--as we'd like to believe.
>> >
>> >
>> > JKG
>>
>> Don't discount the propensity of the media these days to want to
>> sensationalize news stories. A crash of an airplane by an excellent
>> pilot is a much bigger story than the crash of an airplane by a
>> bad pilot. It seems they want to 'prove' that flying is unsafe, and
>> showing that even the best pilots crash seems to meet that end.
>
> It seems to me that most of the crashes that make the news do not
> involve "excellent" pilots--they involve pilots who exercised extremely
> poor judgment (usually historically), were operating contrary to
> regulation, or were not proficient or qualified for the operation being
> conducted. I would agree that the media usually doesn't make these
> points clear, or else there would no sensational story. The media would
> prefer to encourage the perception that the pilots were excellent and
> qualified pilots, with the concluding perception that GA is therefore
> unsafe.

That was exactly the point I tried to make. I guess I didn't
do it very well ;-(


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Brad]

And if that person had instructed the pilot in question, it would
certainly be in their best interests to suggest that the pilot was
"excellent", lest they be pursued by the attorney of the family for
negligence caused by signing off a "bad pilot" for a BFR, certificate,
etc.

[G Farris]

In article <9roFf.21674$sA3.6431@fed1read02>, says...

>
>Sounds like what we read in Southern California every time someone
>prangs into the mountains around here during a winter storm. "Oh, he
>was such a good pilot!" (translated, "Now, if only that nasty mountain
>hadn't gotten in his way!")

The other half of the old saw is:
"He's a real hero, because he sacrificed himself to avoid peoples homes and
populated areas. . ." As if the natural or "selfish" thing for a pilot out
of airspace and out of options to do would be to slam it into someone's
house!

GF