Pic of DC-8 that landed on fire in PHL

[Jay Honeck]

This is a picture of a UPS DC-8 that landed on fire at PHL:

http://phlairline.com/N748UP.html

Anyone know more about this incident? What happened?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Flyingmonk]

>This is a picture of a UPS DC-8 that landed on fire at PHL:
>
>http://phlairline.com/N748UP.html

This explains why I haven't received that new carburator I ordered for
my girls dirtbike. LOL

The Monk

[Garner Miller]

In article <7NxGf.763046$_o.335162@attbi_s71>, Jay Honeck
> wrote:

> This is a picture of a UPS DC-8 that landed on fire at PHL:
>
> http://phlairline.com/N748UP.html
>
> Anyone know more about this incident? What happened?

I'd imagine some cargo caught on fire; not sure beyond that. I'm
certain they're still investigating exactly what burned.


Speaking of burning cargo:

Keep that picture of the DC-8 in mind when packing your bag to check on
an airline flight. I distinctly remember a few years back at my
airline, we were getting ready to close up for a flight out of
Burlington, VT. The agent loading the bags came up to talk to me. He
said there was a "funny smell" coming from one of the bags, and wanted
to check it out if I didn't mind waiting.

For a suspicious bag? Are you kidding? Open it up!

And he did. What was in it? A large, half-full bottle of acetone,
leaking all over the canvas bag and releasing strong vapors. Not only
is it *extremely* flammable (particularly the vapors), but the warnings
for it also include this statement:

"Inhalation of vapors irritates the respiratory tract. May cause
coughing, dizziness, dullness, and headache. Higher concentrations can
produce central nervous system depression, narcosis, and
unconsciousness." Nice.

The cargo compartment of our airplane shares the pressure vessel with
the passenger cabin; many airplanes do. What might those fumes have
done to the occupants of the plane? What if the bag under it had
matches in it? What if they rubbed together during the takeoff roll?

Acetone is one of many things that may be legal to carry in dedicated
cargo planes, but not planes with passengers on board. (Matches and
lighters, incidentally, are also forbidden in checked bags.)

The chemical-soaked bag was taken off the plane. If I recall, the
shaken but apologetic passenger elected to go on without her bag and
pick it up on her return.

This was pre 9/11, of course; these days they probably would take her
off the plane beat her with hoses.

Pack your bags carefully, folks. :-)

--
Garner R. Miller
ATP/CFII/MEI
Clifton Park, NY =USA=
http://www.garnermiller.com/

[G Farris]

In article om>,
says...
>
>
>>This is a picture of a UPS DC-8 that landed on fire at PHL:
>>
>>http://phlairline.com/N748UP.html
>
>This explains why I haven't received that new carburator I ordered for
>my girls dirtbike. LOL
>

Is that the one that come with 20gal of free gasoline? :-)

GF

[Michelle]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> This is a picture of a UPS DC-8 that landed on fire at PHL:
>
> http://phlairline.com/N748UP.html
>
> Anyone know more about this incident? What happened?
If it had been one of those new fangled foreign made jobs it would have
fallen apart. Nothing like an over engineered American made product to
hold together when you need it most.... ;-)

Michelle (who has a friend that flies for UPS)

[G Farris]

In article .net>,
says...

>If it had been one of those new fangled foreign made jobs it would have
>fallen apart. Nothing like an over engineered American made product to
>hold together when you need it most.... ;-)
>

UPS claims to be the largest airline in the world, in number of planes -
and they maintain them very well. The DC-8 in the picture is obviously
completely updated, with new, high-bypass ratio fans, and you can be
sure the flight deck lacks nothing.

It's a sad day though when we refer to European airliners as "newfangled"
and our own stuff as old fashioned.

G Faris

[[email protected]]

>>>>Nothing like an over engineered American made product to hold together when you need it most..<<<<

Yep, the DC8 is built like a tank, probably why UPS spent the dough to
re-engine them with CFM56 fans plus the modern flight deck equip. A
friend of mine is an MD-11 capt with UPS. He tells me they don't skimp
when it comes to acft maintenance.

[Michelle]

G Farris wrote:
> In article .net>,
> says...
>
>
>>If it had been one of those new fangled foreign made jobs it would have
>>fallen apart. Nothing like an over engineered American made product to
>>hold together when you need it most.... ;-)
>>
>
>
> UPS claims to be the largest airline in the world, in number of planes -
> and they maintain them very well. The DC-8 in the picture is obviously
> completely updated, with new, high-bypass ratio fans, and you can be
> sure the flight deck lacks nothing.
>
> It's a sad day though when we refer to European airliners as "newfangled"
> and our own stuff as old fashioned.
>
> G Faris
>
It was a joke. I making reference that when they built that airplane
they really BUILT that airplane. The fact it has lasted 40 or so years
in service is a testimate to our Engineering then and now.
Michelle

[Andrew Sarangan]

How much acetone are we talking about? Remember, nail polish remover is
mostly acetone, and airlines allow 18 ounces for each hazardous
toiletry items. That is over half a quart. Why anyone needs that much
nail polish remover, I don't know. But it appears to be within airline
policy (at least based on what I saw on SWA website).


Garner Miller wrote:
> In article <7NxGf.763046$_o.335162@attbi_s71>, Jay Honeck
> > wrote:
>
> > This is a picture of a UPS DC-8 that landed on fire at PHL:
> >
> > http://phlairline.com/N748UP.html
> >
> > Anyone know more about this incident? What happened?
>
> I'd imagine some cargo caught on fire; not sure beyond that. I'm
> certain they're still investigating exactly what burned.
>
>
> Speaking of burning cargo:
>
> Keep that picture of the DC-8 in mind when packing your bag to check on
> an airline flight. I distinctly remember a few years back at my
> airline, we were getting ready to close up for a flight out of
> Burlington, VT. The agent loading the bags came up to talk to me. He
> said there was a "funny smell" coming from one of the bags, and wanted
> to check it out if I didn't mind waiting.
>
> For a suspicious bag? Are you kidding? Open it up!
>
> And he did. What was in it? A large, half-full bottle of acetone,
> leaking all over the canvas bag and releasing strong vapors. Not only
> is it *extremely* flammable (particularly the vapors), but the warnings
> for it also include this statement:
>
> "Inhalation of vapors irritates the respiratory tract. May cause
> coughing, dizziness, dullness, and headache. Higher concentrations can
> produce central nervous system depression, narcosis, and
> unconsciousness." Nice.
>
> The cargo compartment of our airplane shares the pressure vessel with
> the passenger cabin; many airplanes do. What might those fumes have
> done to the occupants of the plane? What if the bag under it had
> matches in it? What if they rubbed together during the takeoff roll?
>
> Acetone is one of many things that may be legal to carry in dedicated
> cargo planes, but not planes with passengers on board. (Matches and
> lighters, incidentally, are also forbidden in checked bags.)
>
> The chemical-soaked bag was taken off the plane. If I recall, the
> shaken but apologetic passenger elected to go on without her bag and
> pick it up on her return.
>
> This was pre 9/11, of course; these days they probably would take her
> off the plane beat her with hoses.
>
> Pack your bags carefully, folks. :-)
>
> --
> Garner R. Miller
> ATP/CFII/MEI
> Clifton Park, NY =USA=
> http://www.garnermiller.com/

[Doug]

Here is the FAA report, very preliminary.

http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/accident_incident/preliminary_data/events02/index.cfm

[Garner Miller]

In article . com>,
Andrew Sarangan > wrote:

> How much acetone are we talking about? Remember, nail polish remover is
> mostly acetone, and airlines allow 18 ounces for each hazardous
> toiletry items.

It was much more than that; I would estimate it was about a liter-size
bottle of the stuff. I'm not sure how full it was when it entered the
bag, but it was half full when we found it and re-tightened the cap on
it. Ugh, it smelled *strong* -- even the outside of the canvas bag was
looked like it had been sitting in a puddle.

> That is over half a quart. Why anyone needs that much
> nail polish remover, I don't know.

I was wondering that myself; now I wish I had asked. Maybe she worked
at a nail salon? Guess I'll never know. :-)

> But it appears to be within airline
> policy (at least based on what I saw on SWA website).

I don't believe that's the case; it certainly isn't at my airline. Our
page says, "Items such as .... flammable liquids and solids ...are
considered hazardous. Other common items which, in limited quantities,
may be carried within baggage include hairspray, perfume, and certain
medicines which are necessary for customer use during their journey."

I don't think acetone really fits under that description either,
although it's slightly less restrictive than SWA's. They spell it
right out:

http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/chemicals.html

"Southwest Airlines does not allow Customers to carry the following
items in checked or carryon baggage:

* Aerosols (unless medicine or toiletry less than 16 fluid oz.)
* Flammable solvents..."

And acetone is, most definitely, a flammable solvent.


In more general terms, the (now-controlling) TSA permitted/prohibited
items list, it allows "Personal care or toiletries with aerosols, in
limited quantities (such as hairsprays, deodorants)" in both checked
and carry-on luggage.

But under the "Flammable Items" list at the end, every single item is
prohibited, including paint thinners and bleach (under the next
section).

You can check that list out here:
<http://www.tsa.gov/public/interweb/assetlibrary/Permitted_Prohibited_Fa
cts.doc>

--
Garner R. Miller
ATP/CFII/MEI
Clifton Park, NY =USA=
http://www.garnermiller.com/

[Andrew Sarangan]

Check here: http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/toiletry.html
where it says hazardous toiletries can be carried if they are less than
18 ounces each.
Nail polish remover is specifically mentioned.

Garner Miller wrote:
> In article . com>,
> Andrew Sarangan > wrote:
>
> > How much acetone are we talking about? Remember, nail polish remover is
> > mostly acetone, and airlines allow 18 ounces for each hazardous
> > toiletry items.
>
> It was much more than that; I would estimate it was about a liter-size
> bottle of the stuff. I'm not sure how full it was when it entered the
> bag, but it was half full when we found it and re-tightened the cap on
> it. Ugh, it smelled *strong* -- even the outside of the canvas bag was
> looked like it had been sitting in a puddle.
>
> > That is over half a quart. Why anyone needs that much
> > nail polish remover, I don't know.
>
> I was wondering that myself; now I wish I had asked. Maybe she worked
> at a nail salon? Guess I'll never know. :-)
>
> > But it appears to be within airline
> > policy (at least based on what I saw on SWA website).
>
> I don't believe that's the case; it certainly isn't at my airline. Our
> page says, "Items such as .... flammable liquids and solids ...are
> considered hazardous. Other common items which, in limited quantities,
> may be carried within baggage include hairspray, perfume, and certain
> medicines which are necessary for customer use during their journey."
>
> I don't think acetone really fits under that description either,
> although it's slightly less restrictive than SWA's. They spell it
> right out:
>
> http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/chemicals.html
>
> "Southwest Airlines does not allow Customers to carry the following
> items in checked or carryon baggage:
>
> * Aerosols (unless medicine or toiletry less than 16 fluid oz.)
> * Flammable solvents..."
>
> And acetone is, most definitely, a flammable solvent.
>
>
> In more general terms, the (now-controlling) TSA permitted/prohibited
> items list, it allows "Personal care or toiletries with aerosols, in
> limited quantities (such as hairsprays, deodorants)" in both checked
> and carry-on luggage.
>
> But under the "Flammable Items" list at the end, every single item is
> prohibited, including paint thinners and bleach (under the next
> section).
>
> You can check that list out here:
> <http://www.tsa.gov/public/interweb/assetlibrary/Permitted_Prohibited_Fa
> cts.doc>
>
> --
> Garner R. Miller
> ATP/CFII/MEI
> Clifton Park, NY =USA=
> http://www.garnermiller.com/

[Garner Miller]

In article . com>,
Andrew Sarangan > wrote:

> Check here: http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/toiletry.html
> where it says hazardous toiletries can be carried if they are less than
> 18 ounces each.
> Nail polish remover is specifically mentioned.

Interesting; guess they have radically differing policies at different
airlines. Seems funny that Southwest won't allow a dog on board, but
acetone's OK. <grin>

[Bob K.]

"When it absolutely has to get charbroiled overnight!"

[Randy Aldous]

Regarding Nail Polish remover and acetone.

Its is my understanding that much of today's nail polish remover is
made of something other than acetone, unlike some years ago, when
acetone was the major component. I know one can still get the acetone
variety, though.

[Randy Aldous]

Regarding Nail Polish remover and acetone.

Its is my understanding that much of today's nail polish remover is
made of something other than acetone, unlike some years ago, when
acetone was the major component. I know one can still get the acetone
variety, though.

[Randy Aldous]

[Cue the Twilight Zone theme]
Strange. I only posted once and it showed up twice. 21 minutes
difference and the source view shows them as two distinct messages.