I lost my medical, what do I do?

[buttman]

I'm a CFI with a first class medical issued 6/15/05. I began taking a
banned medication (celexa) about a week ago. I have not flown since I
started the drugs, and I don't plan on returning until the medication
stops (the doc said that may not be for another 6-12 months). When I
"get back" will my current medical still be current, or will I have to
reapply for a new one? Am I supposed to tell the FAA about this, or do
I just wait it out or what?

[Grumman-581]

"buttman"wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm a CFI with a first class medical issued 6/15/05. I began taking a
> banned medication (celexa) about a week ago. I have not flown since I
> started the drugs, and I don't plan on returning until the medication
> stops (the doc said that may not be for another 6-12 months). When I
> "get back" will my current medical still be current, or will I have to
> reapply for a new one? Am I supposed to tell the FAA about this, or do
> I just wait it out or what?

Ditch the Celexa and get laid more often... That'll cure your depression...
Either that or it'll make you too tired to be depressed... <evil-grin>

[[email protected]]

Contact Bashir Slamati (Bushy Salami) he is somehow associated with or
is a competitor of Belfort Instruments. Bushy advocates lying on FAA
Medical Exams, and maybe he can introduce you to his doctor named
Albert Puskas (his doctor) ... not sure about the first name though.

Bushy Salami is laying low now, after he slammed Belfort and one of
their former employees in this newsgroup! Good Luck!

Grumman-581 wrote:
> "buttman"wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > I'm a CFI with a first class medical issued 6/15/05. I began taking a
> > banned medication (celexa) about a week ago. I have not flown since I
> > started the drugs, and I don't plan on returning until the medication
> > stops (the doc said that may not be for another 6-12 months). When I
> > "get back" will my current medical still be current, or will I have to
> > reapply for a new one? Am I supposed to tell the FAA about this, or do
> > I just wait it out or what?
>
> Ditch the Celexa and get laid more often... That'll cure your depression...
> Either that or it'll make you too tired to be depressed... <evil-grin>

[Aluckyguess]

Depression is a serious illness. I might consult another doctor and see if
there is another solution.

[Jim Macklin]

What is the reason for the medication is what determines
what happens after you quit using the drug and it has
cleared your system. You don't have to tell the FAA
anything until your next physical exam and then you are
required to report the treatment and doctor visit. As long
as your current medical has not expired, you have not "lost
it" but you're required to self-ground as long as you're on
the medication or the underlying medical condition would
still make you ineligible for a medical certificate.
Consult with your treating doctor, check the FAA drug list
with the AOPA [you should be a member] www.aopa.org and
never lie or conceal your condition from the FAA, just don't
apply unless you know you'll pass. You have over a year to
get clean. Even then as long as there is no official
grounding, you can continue to fly as a Sport Instructor
with just your DL.
Google finds a lot of info on the drug and side effects.
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Uses/0,3915,716%7CCitalopram,00.html#sideEffects
Brand Name(s): Celexa
Generic Name Citalopram

What are citalopram tablets?
CITALOPRAM (CelexaT) is a medicine for depression and
other related problems. You may have to take citalopram for
up to 4 weeks or longer before you begin to feel better.
Generic citalopram tablets are available.

What should my health care professional know before I
take citalopram?
They need to know if you have any of these conditions:
.diabetes
.heart disease
.kidney disease
.liver disease
.mania
.receive electroconvulsive therapy
.seizures (convulsions)
.suicidal thoughts or a previous suicide attempt
.an unusual or allergic reaction to citalopram, the
related drug escitalopram, other medicines, foods, dyes, or
preservatives
.pregnant or trying to become pregnant
.breast-feeding

How should I take this medicine?
Take citalopram tablets by mouth. Follow the
directions on the prescription label. Swallow the tablets
with a drink of water. Citalopram can be taken with or
without food. Take your doses at regular intervals. Do not
take your medicine more often than directed. Do not stop
taking except on your prescriber or health care
professional's advice.

What if I miss a dose?
If you miss a dose of citalopram, take it as soon as
possible. However, if it is almost time for your next dose,
skip the missed dose and go back to your regular dosing
schedule. Follow your prescriber or health care
professional's advice on missed doses. Do not take double or
extra doses.

What drug(s) may interact with citalopram?
Do not take citalopram with any of the following
medications:
.cisapride
.escitalopram
.medicines called MAO inhibitors-phenelzine (Nardil®),
tranylcypromine (Parnate®), isocarboxazid (Marplan®),
selegiline (Eldepryl®)

Citalopram may also interact with the following
medications:
.alosetron
.alprazolam
.amphetamine
.aspirin, warfarin, or nonsteroidal antiinflammatory
drugs (NSAIDs) such as ibuprofen or naproxen
.buspirone
.carbamazepine
.certain diet drugs (dexfenfluramine, fenfluramine,
phentermine, sibutramine)
.clarithromycin
.cimetidine
.cyproheptadine
.dexamethasone
.dextromethorphan
.dextroamphetamine
.diazepam
.diltiazem
.erythromycin
.ethosuximide
.furazolidone
.grapefruit juice
.kava kava
.ketoconazole
.linezolid
.lithium
.medicines that treat depression or other mood
problems
.medicines that treat HIV infection or AIDS
.methadone
.migraine headache medicines (almotriptan, eletriptan,
frovatriptan, naratriptan, rizatriptan, sumatriptan,
zolmitriptan)
.medicines for psychosis or severe mood problems
.modafinil
.nefazodone
.nicardipine
.phenobarbital
.phenytoin
.prescription pain relievers (codeine, hydrocodone,
meperidine, morphine, tramadol, oxycodone)
.primidone
.procarbazine
.quinine
.rifabutin
.rifampin
.St. John's Wort
.troglitazone
.tryptophan
.valerian
.verapamil

Tell your prescriber or health care professional about
all other medicines you are taking, including
non-prescription medicines. Also tell your prescriber or
health care professional if you are a frequent user of
grapefruit juice, drinks with caffeine or alcohol, if you
smoke, or if you use illegal drugs. These may affect the way
your medicine works. Check with your health care
professional before stopping or starting any of your
medicines.

What side effects may I notice from taking citalopram?
Side effects that you should report to your prescriber
or health care professional as soon as possible:
Rare or uncommon:
.confusion
.dizziness or lightheadedness
.skin rash, itching (hives)
.fast talking and excited feelings or actions that are
out of control
.suicidal thoughts
.vomiting
More common:
.agitation, anxiety, or restlessness, especially in
the first week of treatment or when doses are changed

Side effects that usually do not require medical
attention (report to your prescriber or health care
professional if they continue or are bothersome):
.blurred vision
.diarrhea
.difficulty sleeping
.drowsiness
.dry mouth
.fever
.frequent urination
.headache
.indigestion, nausea
.increased or decreased appetite
.increased sweating
.sexual difficulties (decreased sexual ability or
desire)
.taste alterations
.tremor (shaking)
.weight changes

What should I watch for while taking citalopram?
Visit your prescriber or health care professional for
regular checks on your progress. Continue to take your
tablets even if you do not immediately feel better. It can
take about 4 weeks before you feel the full effect of
citalopram.

Patients and their families should watch out for
worsening depression or thoughts of suicide. Also watch out
for sudden or severe changes in feelings such as feeling
anxious, agitated, panicky, irritable, hostile, aggressive,
impulsive, severely restless, overly excited and
hyperactive, or not being able to sleep. If this happens,
especially at the beginning of antidepressant treatment or
after a change in dose, call your health care professional.

If you have been taking citalopram regularly for some
time, do not suddenly stop taking it. You must gradually
reduce the dose, or your symptoms may get worse. Ask your
prescriber or health care professional for advice.

You may get drowsy or dizzy. Do not drive, use
machinery, or do anything that needs mental alertness until
you know how citalopram affects you. Do not stand or sit up
quickly, especially if you are an older patient. This
reduces the risk of dizzy or fainting spells. Alcohol may
interfere with the effect of citalopram. Avoid alcoholic
drinks.

Do not treat yourself for coughs, colds, or allergies
without asking your prescriber or health care professional
for advice. Some ingredients can increase possible side
effects.

Your mouth may get dry. Chewing sugarless gum or
sucking hard candy, and drinking plenty of water will help.

If you are going to have surgery, tell your prescriber
or health care professional that you are taking citalopram.

Where can I keep my medicine?
Keep out of reach of children in a container that
small children cannot open.

Store at room temperature between 15 and 30 degrees C
(59 and 86 degrees F). Throw away any unused medicine after
the expiration date.


Available at: www.DrugDigest.org Last
Updated:02/04/2005



© 2005 Express Scripts, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
These materials are the property of Express Scripts,
Inc. and are protected by copyright, trademark, and other
laws. Permission for use is granted only for personal,
noncommercial purposes.





FAR 61.53 prohibits a person from acting as pilot in command
or as a required pilot flight crew member while that person
(1) "knows or has reason to know of any medical condition
that would make the person unable to meet the requirements
for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot
operation"; or, (2) "Is taking medication or receiving other
treatment for a medical condition that results in the person
being unable to meet the requirements for the medical
certificate necessary for the pilot operation."

FAR 91.17 states (a) No person may act or attempt to act as
a pilot crewmember of a civil aircraft...

(3) While using any drug that affects the person's faculties
in any way contrary to safety...




--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.




"buttman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| I'm a CFI with a first class medical issued 6/15/05. I
began taking a
| banned medication (celexa) about a week ago. I have not
flown since I
| started the drugs, and I don't plan on returning until the
medication
| stops (the doc said that may not be for another 6-12
months). When I
| "get back" will my current medical still be current, or
will I have to
| reapply for a new one? Am I supposed to tell the FAA about
this, or do
| I just wait it out or what?
|

[Toks Desalu]

If they knew that you are taking this banned medication while flying, they
will revoke your medical certification. Since you volunteered to stop flying
and don't plan to return flying until the medication stop, I don't see any
reason why you have to tell FAA about this. Just lay low until you complete
this medication and receive clearance from your doctor.

Toks Desalu
PP-ASEL
Dyin' to Soar


"buttman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm a CFI with a first class medical issued 6/15/05. I began taking a
> banned medication (celexa) about a week ago. I have not flown since I
> started the drugs, and I don't plan on returning until the medication
> stops (the doc said that may not be for another 6-12 months). When I
> "get back" will my current medical still be current, or will I have to
> reapply for a new one? Am I supposed to tell the FAA about this, or do
> I just wait it out or what?
>

[Jim Macklin]

You have to report the medical visit/treatment at the next
exam.


"Toks Desalu" > wrote in message
news:%qBGf.1408$Tb.240@trndny01...
| If they knew that you are taking this banned medication
while flying, they
| will revoke your medical certification. Since you
volunteered to stop flying
| and don't plan to return flying until the medication stop,
I don't see any
| reason why you have to tell FAA about this. Just lay low
until you complete
| this medication and receive clearance from your doctor.
|
| Toks Desalu
| PP-ASEL
| Dyin' to Soar
|
|
| "buttman" > wrote in message
|
oups.com...
| > I'm a CFI with a first class medical issued 6/15/05. I
began taking a
| > banned medication (celexa) about a week ago. I have not
flown since I
| > started the drugs, and I don't plan on returning until
the medication
| > stops (the doc said that may not be for another 6-12
months). When I
| > "get back" will my current medical still be current, or
will I have to
| > reapply for a new one? Am I supposed to tell the FAA
about this, or do
| > I just wait it out or what?
| >
|
|

[Toks Desalu]

But, what if he complete the treatment before the next medical exam?

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:zgGGf.79259$QW2.23751@dukeread08...
> You have to report the medical visit/treatment at the next
> exam.
>
>
> "Toks Desalu" > wrote in message
> news:%qBGf.1408$Tb.240@trndny01...
> | If they knew that you are taking this banned medication
> while flying, they
> | will revoke your medical certification. Since you
> volunteered to stop flying
> | and don't plan to return flying until the medication stop,
> I don't see any
> | reason why you have to tell FAA about this. Just lay low
> until you complete
> | this medication and receive clearance from your doctor.
> |
> | Toks Desalu
> | PP-ASEL
> | Dyin' to Soar
> |
> |
> | "buttman" > wrote in message
> |
> oups.com...
> | > I'm a CFI with a first class medical issued 6/15/05. I
> began taking a
> | > banned medication (celexa) about a week ago. I have not
> flown since I
> | > started the drugs, and I don't plan on returning until
> the medication
> | > stops (the doc said that may not be for another 6-12
> months). When I
> | > "get back" will my current medical still be current, or
> will I have to
> | > reapply for a new one? Am I supposed to tell the FAA
> about this, or do
> | > I just wait it out or what?
> | >
> |
> |
>
>

[Jim Macklin]

Read the medical application form, doctor treatments are
required to be reported. If he is clear of the underlying
problem and no longer taking the medication, he will get his
medical certificate.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Toks Desalu" > wrote in message
news:JXHGf.1622$Tb.393@trndny01...
| But, what if he complete the treatment before the next
medical exam?
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:zgGGf.79259$QW2.23751@dukeread08...
| > You have to report the medical visit/treatment at the
next
| > exam.
| >
| >
| > "Toks Desalu" > wrote in
message
| > news:%qBGf.1408$Tb.240@trndny01...
| > | If they knew that you are taking this banned
medication
| > while flying, they
| > | will revoke your medical certification. Since you
| > volunteered to stop flying
| > | and don't plan to return flying until the medication
stop,
| > I don't see any
| > | reason why you have to tell FAA about this. Just lay
low
| > until you complete
| > | this medication and receive clearance from your
doctor.
| > |
| > | Toks Desalu
| > | PP-ASEL
| > | Dyin' to Soar
| > |
| > |
| > | "buttman" > wrote in message
| > |
| >
oups.com...
| > | > I'm a CFI with a first class medical issued 6/15/05.
I
| > began taking a
| > | > banned medication (celexa) about a week ago. I have
not
| > flown since I
| > | > started the drugs, and I don't plan on returning
until
| > the medication
| > | > stops (the doc said that may not be for another 6-12
| > months). When I
| > | > "get back" will my current medical still be current,
or
| > will I have to
| > | > reapply for a new one? Am I supposed to tell the FAA
| > about this, or do
| > | > I just wait it out or what?
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"buttman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm a CFI with a first class medical issued 6/15/05. I began taking a
> banned medication (celexa) about a week ago. I have not flown since I
> started the drugs, and I don't plan on returning until the medication
> stops (the doc said that may not be for another 6-12 months). When I
> "get back" will my current medical still be current, or will I have to
> reapply for a new one? Am I supposed to tell the FAA about this, or do
> I just wait it out or what?
>

The problem you are going to have is not so much the medication as the
underlying condition. Hop over to the AOPA web site and read this...
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/medical/psych2.html

[Gig 601XL Builder]

The underlying condition will need to be reported. If he is taking the med
for what it is primarily used for he will have to get a waiver.


"Toks Desalu" > wrote in message
news:JXHGf.1622$Tb.393@trndny01...
> But, what if he complete the treatment before the next medical exam?
>

[buttman]

My condition is Social Anxiety Disorder, which I have been told my both
my doctor, and AOPA that is not an issue in itself. The issue is the
medication they have me on to treat it. I've had symptioms of SAD since
I was in middle school, yet I was able to get all my flight training
through CFI done with the condition, so the SAD is no factor.

I actually never thought about getting a wavier. I have no idea how
this thing works. I glanced over part 67 and saw no mention of a wavier
subpart, maybe I'll look into that a little more closley tonight. Does
anyone have any experience with getting a medical wavier? Is the
atitude over at the FAA along the lines of "banned medication = no
medical under any circumstances" or is it up for case-to-case review?

[Jim Macklin]

Find a doctor that will treat you without drugs, drugs are
not a requirement for treatment of a thought process. I had
an anxiety disorder about whether I'd ever have sex, but
after a few years an older girl took action and I found out
I wasn't as anxious anymore. So find a doctor that talks
and ditch the doctor who peddles drugs.



"buttman" > wrote in message
ups.com...
| My condition is Social Anxiety Disorder, which I have been
told my both
| my doctor, and AOPA that is not an issue in itself. The
issue is the
| medication they have me on to treat it. I've had symptioms
of SAD since
| I was in middle school, yet I was able to get all my
flight training
| through CFI done with the condition, so the SAD is no
factor.
|
| I actually never thought about getting a wavier. I have no
idea how
| this thing works. I glanced over part 67 and saw no
mention of a wavier
| subpart, maybe I'll look into that a little more closley
tonight. Does
| anyone have any experience with getting a medical wavier?
Is the
| atitude over at the FAA along the lines of "banned
medication = no
| medical under any circumstances" or is it up for
case-to-case review?
|

[Rachel]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> The underlying condition will need to be reported. If he is taking the med
> for what it is primarily used for he will have to get a waiver.
>
>
> "Toks Desalu" > wrote in message
> news:JXHGf.1622$Tb.393@trndny01...
>
>>But, what if he complete the treatment before the next medical exam?
>>
>
>
>
Celexa is an antidepressant, correct? You won't get a waiver for
depression. In fact, you won't get any kind of a waiver while on an
antidepressant.

[Rachel]

buttman wrote:
> My condition is Social Anxiety Disorder, which I have been told my both
> my doctor, and AOPA that is not an issue in itself. The issue is the
> medication they have me on to treat it. I've had symptioms of SAD since
> I was in middle school, yet I was able to get all my flight training
> through CFI done with the condition, so the SAD is no factor.
>

Personally, I'd stop taking the medication and find a doctor who will
get to the root of the problem.

Did you report the medication to the FAA? What was the AME's reaction?

[Montblack]

("Rachel" wrote)
> Personally, I'd stop taking the medication and find a doctor who will get
> to the root of the problem.


Maybe its something like a broken fight-or-flight switch ...where meds would
help.

What if the root of the problem is something akin to emotional epilepsy?
Meds please.


Montblack

[Rachel]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Rachel" wrote)
>
>> Personally, I'd stop taking the medication and find a doctor who will
>> get to the root of the problem.
>
>
>
> Maybe its something like a broken fight-or-flight switch ...where meds
> would help.
>
> What if the root of the problem is something akin to emotional epilepsy?
> Meds please.

All I know is my own experience. When I was a freshman in college, I
was told I had "depression". I never took the meds that were
prescribed. What I couldn't put a finger on then, and know now, was
that what I was feeling was homesickness, stress, loneliness. Really,
college is a huge adjustment, and without a good support system, anyone
will go a little crazy. It was NOT depression. The problem is, most
doctors are so quick to diagnose anyone who's not happy as having
clinical depression. It's simply not true.

Are there some cases that need meds? Sure. But I bet you a lot of them
are like I was.

[[email protected]]

emotional epilepsy...?

[Montblack]

wrote)
> emotional epilepsy...?


I was shooting for something where talk therapy wouldn't have much hope for
success.

Emotional epilepsy (made up term) - electrical misfires that maybe trigger
(severe?) chemical mood imbalances, where drugs might then act as some kind
of a calming buffer.

Ok, I'll leave the medical stuff to you.


Montblack ...well, you knew this was coming. :-)
"Doctor, my eyes
Cannot see the sky"

[MaulePilot]

You can still teach, you just can't be PIC.
So.... primary students are probably out for now. Say hello to BFR's
and 'hand-holding' "Dual" instruction flights.

[Andrew Gideon]

buttman wrote:

> I've had symptioms of SAD since
> I was in middle school, yet I was able to get all my flight training
> through CFI done with the condition, so the SAD is no factor.

So why start taking a banned drug now? Seek out a treatment that avoids
problems with your medical.

- Andrew

[Andrew Gideon]

Montblack wrote:

> What if the root of the problem is something akin to emotional epilepsy?
> Meds please.

He managed to go through his entire life, including flight training, w/o any
medical intervention in this condition (or so I gather from a prior post).
There should be a fair bit of option space between "nothing" and "banned
medication".

- Andrew

[Andrew Gideon]

Rachel wrote:

> Are there some cases that need meds? Sure. But I bet you a lot of them
> are like I was.


I've had numerous cases over the years where a doctor has written me a
perscription "just in case". For example, I once had a nasty stomach flu
(or some such; I don't recall the details) where she prescribed something
that I presume was anti-nausea. I never filled the prescription.

It's nice, I suppose, that a doctor is willing to provide options, but she's
always quite clear that it's my choice whether I actually need to exercise
the option.

This may not be analogous to the OPs situation, of course.

- Andrew

[buttman]

I've been doing therapy for the past 8 months. It has changed my way of
thinking a bunch, but I still get jittery, my heart rate increases, my
hands sweat, and my body shakes when I'm in a social situation. Yes, I
went many many years like this, but why continue any longer?

Its sort of like that classical experiment where they ring the bell and
feed the dogs. After a while the dogs begin to druel when the bell is
rang because they expect food. When I was younger, my mind associated
social situations with bad, bad things, so whenever they come up, my
body goes into whistle-emergency-panic-siren mode. Also when I was
younger, because of my horrible upbringing, my undeveloped mind
couldn't deal with what was coming at me, so I developed a nasty
"avoidant personality" to deal with it. To this day I have trouble
making eye contact with people. Sure I can force myself, but I'll never
atcally enjoy doing it.

All the therapy has helped me realize all of this, but it will never
make it all go away. Just like how you can't wish away cancer, you
can't just make your body react a different way when your body has been
reacting that way since childhood. Hopefully the medication will end
all of the anxiety that my brain has been trained to release when I'm
in a social situation, so I can retrain my mind to act cool.

[Andrew Gideon]

buttman wrote:

> Yes, I
> went many many years like this, but why continue any longer?

So you can fly. But if you're happy with the trade off you're making, then
I'm certainly in no position to second guess that choice. Good luck, and I
wish you a speedy recovery and return to flight status.

In the meantime, others have posted various possible alternatives to keep
airborne. Sport Pilot is one good choice, but I'm not sure how the FAA
would take to someone exercising that option while on a banned medication.
I don't know the details of how a Sport Pilot is to judge his/her medical
competence.

I'd recommend asking AOPA.

- Andrew

[NW_PILOT]

You know the diffreance between a drug dealer and a drug pusher?

The drug pusher has an M.D.


"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:r1NGf.79306$QW2.76907@dukeread08...
> Find a doctor that will treat you without drugs, drugs are
> not a requirement for treatment of a thought process. I had
> an anxiety disorder about whether I'd ever have sex, but
> after a few years an older girl took action and I found out
> I wasn't as anxious anymore. So find a doctor that talks
> and ditch the doctor who peddles drugs.
>
>
>
> "buttman" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> | My condition is Social Anxiety Disorder, which I have been
> told my both
> | my doctor, and AOPA that is not an issue in itself. The
> issue is the
> | medication they have me on to treat it. I've had symptioms
> of SAD since
> | I was in middle school, yet I was able to get all my
> flight training
> | through CFI done with the condition, so the SAD is no
> factor.
> |
> | I actually never thought about getting a wavier. I have no
> idea how
> | this thing works. I glanced over part 67 and saw no
> mention of a wavier
> | subpart, maybe I'll look into that a little more closley
> tonight. Does
> | anyone have any experience with getting a medical wavier?
> Is the
> | atitude over at the FAA along the lines of "banned
> medication = no
> | medical under any circumstances" or is it up for
> case-to-case review?
> |
>
>

[NW_PILOT]

"Rachel" > wrote in message
...
> Montblack wrote:
> > ("Rachel" wrote)
> >
> >> Personally, I'd stop taking the medication and find a doctor who will
> >> get to the root of the problem.
> >
> >
> >
> > Maybe its something like a broken fight-or-flight switch ...where meds
> > would help.
> >
> > What if the root of the problem is something akin to emotional epilepsy?
> > Meds please.
>
> All I know is my own experience. When I was a freshman in college, I
> was told I had "depression". I never took the meds that were
> prescribed. What I couldn't put a finger on then, and know now, was
> that what I was feeling was homesickness, stress, loneliness. Really,
> college is a huge adjustment, and without a good support system, anyone
> will go a little crazy. It was NOT depression. The problem is, most
> doctors are so quick to diagnose anyone who's not happy as having
> clinical depression. It's simply not true.
>
> Are there some cases that need meds? Sure. But I bet you a lot of them
> are like I was.

I agree I think doctors today are to happy to give drugs out to support
their investments in the manufactures!

[NW_PILOT]

"buttman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I've been doing therapy for the past 8 months. It has changed my way of
> thinking a bunch, but I still get jittery,

No, **** your on drugs!

>my heart rate increases, my
> hands sweat, and my body shakes when I'm in a social situation. Yes, I
> went many many years like this, but why continue any longer?

Dam, when I am in a social situations especially with a girl I want to nail
I have the same symptoms.

>
> Its sort of like that classical experiment where they ring the bell and
> feed the dogs. After a while the dogs begin to druel when the bell is
> rang because they expect food. When I was younger, my mind associated
> social situations with bad, bad things, so whenever they come up, my
> body goes into whistle-emergency-panic-siren mode. Also when I was
> younger, because of my horrible upbringing, my undeveloped mind
> couldn't deal with what was coming at me, so I developed a nasty
> "avoidant personality" to deal with it. To this day I have trouble
> making eye contact with people. Sure I can force myself, but I'll never
> atcally enjoy doing it.

Ok, cannot be any worse that a lot of other people out there that live
without taking dope.

>
> All the therapy has helped me realize all of this, but it will never
> make it all go away. Just like how you can't wish away cancer, you
> can't just make your body react a different way when your body has been
> reacting that way since childhood. Hopefully the medication will end
> all of the anxiety that my brain has been trained to release when I'm
> in a social situation, so I can retrain my mind to act cool.
>

Do us a favor stop taking the dope! Go find someone you can talk to and get
to the problem don't mask it with dope! It seems from reading this that you
are just having issues with coping with reality!

Why dont you try this,

Go make some social situiations good ones there are many hookers out there
that can help you out and it's a lot safer than the dope you are taking.

[Terry]

Slamati may have a point here, about the medical that is. The FAA has
started the Sport Pilot Category, wherein if one has never had a
medical, or failed a medical (I hope I have that right) then one can
tootle about the skies without a medical.

Add that new bunch to the folks who fly with medical problems that the
examiner doesn't find, or the pilot knows nothing about.

The bottom line is, most of the Saturday/Sunday pilots out here have no
need for a medical.

wrote:
> Contact Bashir Slamati (Bushy Salami) he is somehow associated with or
> is a competitor of Belfort Instruments. Bushy advocates lying on FAA
> Medical Exams, and maybe he can introduce you to his doctor named
> Albert Puskas (his doctor) ... not sure about the first name though.
>
> Bushy Salami is laying low now, after he slammed Belfort and one of
> their former employees in this newsgroup! Good Luck!
>
> Grumman-581 wrote:
>> "buttman"wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> I'm a CFI with a first class medical issued 6/15/05. I began taking a
>>> banned medication (celexa) about a week ago. I have not flown since I
>>> started the drugs, and I don't plan on returning until the medication
>>> stops (the doc said that may not be for another 6-12 months). When I
>>> "get back" will my current medical still be current, or will I have to
>>> reapply for a new one? Am I supposed to tell the FAA about this, or do
>>> I just wait it out or what?
>> Ditch the Celexa and get laid more often... That'll cure your depression...
>> Either that or it'll make you too tired to be depressed... <evil-grin>
>

[Ron Natalie]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

> The problem you are going to have is not so much the medication as the
> underlying condition. Hop over to the AOPA web site and read this...
> http://www.aopa.org/members/files/medical/psych2.html
>
>
Actually it is both. The FAA refuses to accept any legitimate
purpose for drugs that have any psychoactive connotations. This
means no SSRIs period, no wellbutrin for smoking cessation, no
weak dosages of trycyclics for autonomic muscle spasms, etc...

They have their heads up their asses with regard to this.

[Ron Natalie]

buttman wrote:
> Is the
> atitude over at the FAA along the lines of "banned medication = no
> medical under any circumstances" or is it up for case-to-case review?
>

You need to consult with a doctor that is familiar with the FAA
requirements. Start with AOPA.

The bad news is that there is no way the FAA is even going to
consider a waiver for you to take Celexa even if you were taking
it to relieve a hangnail.

[Roger]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:38:56 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
<wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:

>
>"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
>> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>>
>>> The problem you are going to have is not so much the medication as the
>>> underlying condition. Hop over to the AOPA web site and read this...
>>> http://www.aopa.org/members/files/medical/psych2.html
>>>
>>>
>> Actually it is both. The FAA refuses to accept any legitimate
>> purpose for drugs that have any psychoactive connotations. This
>> means no SSRIs period, no wellbutrin for smoking cessation, no
>> weak dosages of trycyclics for autonomic muscle spasms, etc...
>>
>> They have their heads up their asses with regard to this.
>
>I don't think so. I had a friend who smoked but was otherwise completely
>healthy both mentally and physically. He went on Wellbutrin and before he
>even got to the point where you stop smoking he displayed a marked
>psychological change. He would flash from angry to sad in a matter of
>minutes. He saw it for what it was and stopped taking Wellbutrin. The
>problems stopped in a mater of days.
>
>The psychoactive drugs can effect different people different ways and even
>the same person in different ways over a period of time.

As do many over-the-counter meds. You take them for a while to see if
there is any adverse side effects and if none, you fly.

Quite some time back I took an antibiotic which killed all the good
critters as well as the bad. I didn't fly, of course part of that was
because I didn't dare get more than about a 100 feet from the can for
a while.

Many people have some reaction to specific foods and probably most
haven't even made the connection. I don't know the numbers, but my
understanding is, it's quite a large number. Just because a bunch
of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
it, and stay away from tomatoes.

I agree with Ron, if the person has no adverse effects from the drugs
and does not have physiological problems then why ban them when the
purpose for the prescription is not a problem.



Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


>

[Jose]

> Just because a bunch
> of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
> substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
> it, and stay away from tomatoes.

Report it? To whom? For what purpose?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Roger" > wrote in message
...

> As do many over-the-counter meds. You take them for a while to see if
> there is any adverse side effects and if none, you fly.
>
> Quite some time back I took an antibiotic which killed all the good
> critters as well as the bad. I didn't fly, of course part of that was
> because I didn't dare get more than about a 100 feet from the can for
> a while.
>
> Many people have some reaction to specific foods and probably most
> haven't even made the connection. I don't know the numbers, but my
> understanding is, it's quite a large number. Just because a bunch
> of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
> substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
> it, and stay away from tomatoes.
>
> I agree with Ron, if the person has no adverse effects from the drugs
> and does not have physiological problems then why ban them when the
> purpose for the prescription is not a problem.
>
>


There is a wide difference from the effects of a food allergy and that of a
psychoactive drug. The psychoactive drug effect can be very slow onset and
not outwardly visible. Add to that the fact the effect may be that you want
to kill yourself or someone else I think the FAA has a pretty good set of
rules in effect on this one.

[Jim]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:15:13 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
<wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:

>
>"Roger" > wrote in message
...
>
>> As do many over-the-counter meds. You take them for a while to see if
>> there is any adverse side effects and if none, you fly.
>>
>> Quite some time back I took an antibiotic which killed all the good
>> critters as well as the bad. I didn't fly, of course part of that was
>> because I didn't dare get more than about a 100 feet from the can for
>> a while.
>>
>> Many people have some reaction to specific foods and probably most
>> haven't even made the connection. I don't know the numbers, but my
>> understanding is, it's quite a large number. Just because a bunch
>> of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
>> substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
>> it, and stay away from tomatoes.
>>
>> I agree with Ron, if the person has no adverse effects from the drugs
>> and does not have physiological problems then why ban them when the
>> purpose for the prescription is not a problem.
>>
>>
>
>
>There is a wide difference from the effects of a food allergy and that of a
>psychoactive drug. The psychoactive drug effect can be very slow onset and
>not outwardly visible. Add to that the fact the effect may be that you want
>to kill yourself or someone else I think the FAA has a pretty good set of
>rules in effect on this one.
>

In my view, this attitude is tragic and uninformed. It ignores the
living experiences of many who benefit from these medications and who
function better with them than without them in all aspects of their
lives.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:15:13 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
> <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Roger" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>> As do many over-the-counter meds. You take them for a while to see if
>>> there is any adverse side effects and if none, you fly.
>>>
>>> Quite some time back I took an antibiotic which killed all the good
>>> critters as well as the bad. I didn't fly, of course part of that was
>>> because I didn't dare get more than about a 100 feet from the can for
>>> a while.
>>>
>>> Many people have some reaction to specific foods and probably most
>>> haven't even made the connection. I don't know the numbers, but my
>>> understanding is, it's quite a large number. Just because a bunch
>>> of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
>>> substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
>>> it, and stay away from tomatoes.
>>>
>>> I agree with Ron, if the person has no adverse effects from the drugs
>>> and does not have physiological problems then why ban them when the
>>> purpose for the prescription is not a problem.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>There is a wide difference from the effects of a food allergy and that of
>>a
>>psychoactive drug. The psychoactive drug effect can be very slow onset and
>>not outwardly visible. Add to that the fact the effect may be that you
>>want
>>to kill yourself or someone else I think the FAA has a pretty good set of
>>rules in effect on this one.
>>
>
> In my view, this attitude is tragic and uninformed. It ignores the
> living experiences of many who benefit from these medications and who
> function better with them than without them in all aspects of their
> lives.

I'm not saying that the drugs aren't needed by people. Far from it. But to
think that they can have no side effects that would negatively effect
someone's ability to safely fly an aircraft shows that you don't fully
understand how these drugs can react with different individuals.

I'm a big fan on pain medication if I've been injured. But I don't think I
should fly while I've got a morphine drip attached to my arm.

[Jim]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:27:14 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
<wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:

>
>"Jim" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:15:13 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
>> <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Roger" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>> As do many over-the-counter meds. You take them for a while to see if
>>>> there is any adverse side effects and if none, you fly.
>>>>
>>>> Quite some time back I took an antibiotic which killed all the good
>>>> critters as well as the bad. I didn't fly, of course part of that was
>>>> because I didn't dare get more than about a 100 feet from the can for
>>>> a while.
>>>>
>>>> Many people have some reaction to specific foods and probably most
>>>> haven't even made the connection. I don't know the numbers, but my
>>>> understanding is, it's quite a large number. Just because a bunch
>>>> of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
>>>> substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
>>>> it, and stay away from tomatoes.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Ron, if the person has no adverse effects from the drugs
>>>> and does not have physiological problems then why ban them when the
>>>> purpose for the prescription is not a problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>There is a wide difference from the effects of a food allergy and that of
>>>a
>>>psychoactive drug. The psychoactive drug effect can be very slow onset and
>>>not outwardly visible. Add to that the fact the effect may be that you
>>>want
>>>to kill yourself or someone else I think the FAA has a pretty good set of
>>>rules in effect on this one.
>>>
>>
>> In my view, this attitude is tragic and uninformed. It ignores the
>> living experiences of many who benefit from these medications and who
>> function better with them than without them in all aspects of their
>> lives.
>
>I'm not saying that the drugs aren't needed by people. Far from it. But to
>think that they can have no side effects that would negatively effect
>someone's ability to safely fly an aircraft shows that you don't fully
>understand how these drugs can react with different individuals.
>
>I'm a big fan on pain medication if I've been injured. But I don't think I
>should fly while I've got a morphine drip attached to my arm.
>

No, this is simply not correct. I do understand. And it is shocking
to have "a morphine drip" offered as an analogy to the medications
being discussed.

That these medications, like perhaps all medications, CAN have effects
contrary to safe flying is true. That they MUST have such effects is
not true and ignores that, on the contrary, such medications CAN have
a positive effect on an individual's performance - in flying as well
as in other activities.

[Rachel]

Jim wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:15:13 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
> <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
>
>
>>"Roger" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>>>As do many over-the-counter meds. You take them for a while to see if
>>>there is any adverse side effects and if none, you fly.
>>>
>>>Quite some time back I took an antibiotic which killed all the good
>>>critters as well as the bad. I didn't fly, of course part of that was
>>>because I didn't dare get more than about a 100 feet from the can for
>>>a while.
>>>
>>>Many people have some reaction to specific foods and probably most
>>>haven't even made the connection. I don't know the numbers, but my
>>>understanding is, it's quite a large number. Just because a bunch
>>>of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
>>>substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
>>>it, and stay away from tomatoes.
>>>
>>>I agree with Ron, if the person has no adverse effects from the drugs
>>>and does not have physiological problems then why ban them when the
>>>purpose for the prescription is not a problem.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>There is a wide difference from the effects of a food allergy and that of a
>>psychoactive drug. The psychoactive drug effect can be very slow onset and
>>not outwardly visible. Add to that the fact the effect may be that you want
>>to kill yourself or someone else I think the FAA has a pretty good set of
>>rules in effect on this one.
>>
>
>
> In my view, this attitude is tragic and uninformed. It ignores the
> living experiences of many who benefit from these medications and who
> function better with them than without them in all aspects of their
> lives.

So what happens when someone forgets to take their medicine or slips and
ends up in a major depressive episode and *won't* take it?

[Al]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:pQAGf.79254$QW2.71112@dukeread08...
> What is the reason for the medication is what determines
> what happens after you quit using the drug and it has
> cleared your system. You don't have to tell the FAA
> anything until your next physical exam and then you are
> required to report the treatment and doctor visit. As long
> as your current medical has not expired, you have not "lost
> it" but you're required to self-ground as long as you're on
> the medication or the underlying medical condition would
> still make you ineligible for a medical certificate.
> Consult with your treating doctor, check the FAA drug list
> with the AOPA [you should be a member] www.aopa.org and
> never lie or conceal your condition from the FAA, just don't
> apply unless you know you'll pass. You have over a year to
> get clean. Even then as long as there is no official
> grounding, you can continue to fly as a Sport Instructor
> with just your DL.
> Google finds a lot of info on the drug and side effects.
>
> http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Uses/0,3915,716%7CCitalopram,00.html#sideEffects
> Brand Name(s): Celexa
> Generic Name Citalopram
>
> What are citalopram tablets?
> CITALOPRAM (CelexaT) is a medicine for depression and
> other related problems. You may have to take citalopram for
> up to 4 weeks or longer before you begin to feel better.
> Generic citalopram tablets are available.
>
> What should my health care professional know before I
> take citalopram?
> They need to know if you have any of these conditions:
> .diabetes
> .heart disease
> .kidney disease
> .liver disease
> .mania
> .receive electroconvulsive therapy
> .seizures (convulsions)
> .suicidal thoughts or a previous suicide attempt
> .an unusual or allergic reaction to citalopram, the
> related drug escitalopram, other medicines, foods, dyes, or
> preservatives
> .pregnant or trying to become pregnant
> .breast-feeding
>
> How should I take this medicine?
> Take citalopram tablets by mouth. Follow the
> directions on the prescription label. Swallow the tablets
> with a drink of water. Citalopram can be taken with or
> without food. Take your doses at regular intervals. Do not
> take your medicine more often than directed. Do not stop
> taking except on your prescriber or health care
> professional's advice.
>
> What if I miss a dose?
> If you miss a dose of citalopram, take it as soon as
> possible. However, if it is almost time for your next dose,
> skip the missed dose and go back to your regular dosing
> schedule. Follow your prescriber or health care
> professional's advice on missed doses. Do not take double or
> extra doses.
>
> What drug(s) may interact with citalopram?
> Do not take citalopram with any of the following
> medications:
> .cisapride
> .escitalopram
> .medicines called MAO inhibitors-phenelzine (Nardil®),
> tranylcypromine (Parnate®), isocarboxazid (Marplan®),
> selegiline (Eldepryl®)
>
> Citalopram may also interact with the following
> medications:
> .alosetron
> .alprazolam
> .amphetamine
> .aspirin, warfarin, or nonsteroidal antiinflammatory
> drugs (NSAIDs) such as ibuprofen or naproxen
> .buspirone
> .carbamazepine
> .certain diet drugs (dexfenfluramine, fenfluramine,
> phentermine, sibutramine)
> .clarithromycin
> .cimetidine
> .cyproheptadine
> .dexamethasone
> .dextromethorphan
> .dextroamphetamine
> .diazepam
> .diltiazem
> .erythromycin
> .ethosuximide
> .furazolidone
> .grapefruit juice
> .kava kava
> .ketoconazole
> .linezolid
> .lithium
> .medicines that treat depression or other mood
> problems
> .medicines that treat HIV infection or AIDS
> .methadone
> .migraine headache medicines (almotriptan, eletriptan,
> frovatriptan, naratriptan, rizatriptan, sumatriptan,
> zolmitriptan)
> .medicines for psychosis or severe mood problems
> .modafinil
> .nefazodone
> .nicardipine
> .phenobarbital
> .phenytoin
> .prescription pain relievers (codeine, hydrocodone,
> meperidine, morphine, tramadol, oxycodone)
> .primidone
> .procarbazine
> .quinine
> .rifabutin
> .rifampin
> .St. John's Wort
> .troglitazone
> .tryptophan
> .valerian
> .verapamil
>
> Tell your prescriber or health care professional about
> all other medicines you are taking, including
> non-prescription medicines. Also tell your prescriber or
> health care professional if you are a frequent user of
> grapefruit juice, drinks with caffeine or alcohol, if you
> smoke, or if you use illegal drugs. These may affect the way
> your medicine works. Check with your health care
> professional before stopping or starting any of your
> medicines.
>
> What side effects may I notice from taking citalopram?
> Side effects that you should report to your prescriber
> or health care professional as soon as possible:
> Rare or uncommon:
> .confusion
> .dizziness or lightheadedness
> .skin rash, itching (hives)
> .fast talking and excited feelings or actions that are
> out of control
> .suicidal thoughts
> .vomiting
> More common:
> .agitation, anxiety, or restlessness, especially in
> the first week of treatment or when doses are changed
>
> Side effects that usually do not require medical
> attention (report to your prescriber or health care
> professional if they continue or are bothersome):
> .blurred vision
> .diarrhea
> .difficulty sleeping
> .drowsiness
> .dry mouth
> .fever
> .frequent urination
> .headache
> .indigestion, nausea
> .increased or decreased appetite
> .increased sweating
> .sexual difficulties (decreased sexual ability or
> desire)
> .taste alterations
> .tremor (shaking)
> .weight changes
>
> What should I watch for while taking citalopram?
> Visit your prescriber or health care professional for
> regular checks on your progress. Continue to take your
> tablets even if you do not immediately feel better. It can
> take about 4 weeks before you feel the full effect of
> citalopram.
>
> Patients and their families should watch out for
> worsening depression or thoughts of suicide. Also watch out
> for sudden or severe changes in feelings such as feeling
> anxious, agitated, panicky, irritable, hostile, aggressive,
> impulsive, severely restless, overly excited and
> hyperactive, or not being able to sleep. If this happens,
> especially at the beginning of antidepressant treatment or
> after a change in dose, call your health care professional.
>
> If you have been taking citalopram regularly for some
> time, do not suddenly stop taking it. You must gradually
> reduce the dose, or your symptoms may get worse. Ask your
> prescriber or health care professional for advice.
>
> You may get drowsy or dizzy. Do not drive, use
> machinery, or do anything that needs mental alertness until
> you know how citalopram affects you. Do not stand or sit up
> quickly, especially if you are an older patient. This
> reduces the risk of dizzy or fainting spells. Alcohol may
> interfere with the effect of citalopram. Avoid alcoholic
> drinks.
>
> Do not treat yourself for coughs, colds, or allergies
> without asking your prescriber or health care professional
> for advice. Some ingredients can increase possible side
> effects.
>
> Your mouth may get dry. Chewing sugarless gum or
> sucking hard candy, and drinking plenty of water will help.
>
> If you are going to have surgery, tell your prescriber
> or health care professional that you are taking citalopram.
>
> Where can I keep my medicine?
> Keep out of reach of children in a container that
> small children cannot open.
>
> Store at room temperature between 15 and 30 degrees C
> (59 and 86 degrees F). Throw away any unused medicine after
> the expiration date.
>
>
> Available at: www.DrugDigest.org Last
> Updated:02/04/2005
>
>
>
> © 2005 Express Scripts, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
> These materials are the property of Express Scripts,
> Inc. and are protected by copyright, trademark, and other
> laws. Permission for use is granted only for personal,
> noncommercial purposes.
>
>
>
>
>
> FAR 61.53 prohibits a person from acting as pilot in command
> or as a required pilot flight crew member while that person
> (1) "knows or has reason to know of any medical condition
> that would make the person unable to meet the requirements
> for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot
> operation"; or, (2) "Is taking medication or receiving other
> treatment for a medical condition that results in the person
> being unable to meet the requirements for the medical
> certificate necessary for the pilot operation."
>
> FAR 91.17 states (a) No person may act or attempt to act as
> a pilot crewmember of a civil aircraft...
>
> (3) While using any drug that affects the person's faculties
> in any way contrary to safety...
>
>
>
>
> --
> The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
> But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
> some support
> http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
> See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.
>
>
>
>
> "buttman" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> | I'm a CFI with a first class medical issued 6/15/05. I
> began taking a
> | banned medication (celexa) about a week ago. I have not
> flown since I
> | started the drugs, and I don't plan on returning until the
> medication
> | stops (the doc said that may not be for another 6-12
> months). When I
> | "get back" will my current medical still be current, or
> will I have to
> | reapply for a new one? Am I supposed to tell the FAA about
> this, or do
> | I just wait it out or what?
> |
>
>

Once again, Jim is right. You don't have to report it until your next
physical. I am going through the same thing with Prozac, and have a letter
here from the FAA medical division. They will be looking for 90 days off the
proscribed drug, and a clean bill of health. You may qualify by the time you
go for another physical. If you don't think you'll pass, don't apply. A
denial removes your sport pilot privileges.

Al

[Al]

Ok, but you've been taking "insert drug here", for ten years, under
supervision, and have shown no side effects. Now do you think that the label
that says "Could" or "Possibly" still apply to you? I've flown with a
depressed pilot, on and off for 14 years. He eventually tried to kill
himself in a lear24 with me as the co-pilot. Do you think anyone was better
off for his lack of treatment? Not me. Ymmv.

Also, Jim has a point. There are people out there with a minor imbalance
in blood chemicals, that can be chemically treated successfully without side
effects.
Once they are fixed, why muck with them anymore?

Al CFIAMI

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
>
> "Jim" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:27:14 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
>> <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Jim" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:15:13 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
>>>> <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Roger" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>> As do many over-the-counter meds. You take them for a while to see
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> there is any adverse side effects and if none, you fly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quite some time back I took an antibiotic which killed all the good
>>>>>> critters as well as the bad. I didn't fly, of course part of that
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> because I didn't dare get more than about a 100 feet from the can for
>>>>>> a while.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many people have some reaction to specific foods and probably most
>>>>>> haven't even made the connection. I don't know the numbers, but my
>>>>>> understanding is, it's quite a large number. Just because a bunch
>>>>>> of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
>>>>>> substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
>>>>>> it, and stay away from tomatoes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with Ron, if the person has no adverse effects from the
>>>>>> drugs
>>>>>> and does not have physiological problems then why ban them when the
>>>>>> purpose for the prescription is not a problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>There is a wide difference from the effects of a food allergy and that
>>>>>of
>>>>>a
>>>>>psychoactive drug. The psychoactive drug effect can be very slow onset
>>>>>and
>>>>>not outwardly visible. Add to that the fact the effect may be that you
>>>>>want
>>>>>to kill yourself or someone else I think the FAA has a pretty good set
>>>>>of
>>>>>rules in effect on this one.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In my view, this attitude is tragic and uninformed. It ignores the
>>>> living experiences of many who benefit from these medications and who
>>>> function better with them than without them in all aspects of their
>>>> lives.
>>>
>>>I'm not saying that the drugs aren't needed by people. Far from it. But
>>>to
>>>think that they can have no side effects that would negatively effect
>>>someone's ability to safely fly an aircraft shows that you don't fully
>>>understand how these drugs can react with different individuals.
>>>
>>>I'm a big fan on pain medication if I've been injured. But I don't think
>>>I
>>>should fly while I've got a morphine drip attached to my arm.
>>>
>>
>> No, this is simply not correct. I do understand. And it is shocking
>> to have "a morphine drip" offered as an analogy to the medications
>> being discussed.
>>
>> That these medications, like perhaps all medications, CAN have effects
>> contrary to safe flying is true. That they MUST have such effects is
>> not true and ignores that, on the contrary, such medications CAN have
>> a positive effect on an individual's performance - in flying as well
>> as in other activities.
>
>
> Now for the last time I don't think these drugs are bad I fully understand
> that they help people. I do think that those that have been diagnosed with
> certain conditions and/or prescribed psychoactive drugs should not be
> handed a medical without going through the waiver process.
>
>
> The following is a direct quote from the prescribing information from
> ZOLOFT.
> "
> The following symptoms, anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia,
> irritability, hostility
>
> aggressiveness, impulsivity, akathisia (psychomotor restlessness),
> hypomania, and mania, have
>
> been reported in adult and pediatric patients being treated with
> antidepressants for major
>
> depressive disorder as well as for other indications, both psychiatric and
> nonpsychiatric.
>
> Although a causal link between the emergence of such symptoms and either
> the worsening of
>
> depression and/or the emergence of suicidal impulses has not been
> established, there is concern
>
> that such symptoms may represent precursors to emerging suicidality.
>
> "
>

[Jim]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:34:37 -0600, Rachel > wrote:

>Jim wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:15:13 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
>> <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Roger" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>As do many over-the-counter meds. You take them for a while to see if
>>>>there is any adverse side effects and if none, you fly.
>>>>
>>>>Quite some time back I took an antibiotic which killed all the good
>>>>critters as well as the bad. I didn't fly, of course part of that was
>>>>because I didn't dare get more than about a 100 feet from the can for
>>>>a while.
>>>>
>>>>Many people have some reaction to specific foods and probably most
>>>>haven't even made the connection. I don't know the numbers, but my
>>>>understanding is, it's quite a large number. Just because a bunch
>>>>of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
>>>>substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
>>>>it, and stay away from tomatoes.
>>>>
>>>>I agree with Ron, if the person has no adverse effects from the drugs
>>>>and does not have physiological problems then why ban them when the
>>>>purpose for the prescription is not a problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>There is a wide difference from the effects of a food allergy and that of a
>>>psychoactive drug. The psychoactive drug effect can be very slow onset and
>>>not outwardly visible. Add to that the fact the effect may be that you want
>>>to kill yourself or someone else I think the FAA has a pretty good set of
>>>rules in effect on this one.
>>>
>>
>>
>> In my view, this attitude is tragic and uninformed. It ignores the
>> living experiences of many who benefit from these medications and who
>> function better with them than without them in all aspects of their
>> lives.
>
>So what happens when someone forgets to take their medicine or slips and
>ends up in a major depressive episode and *won't* take it?

I confess I don't know how to seriously answer this question. One
answer, I guess the one you are looking for, is that the person in
question will thereby become unsafe as a pilot if the reason for the
medication also renders the person unsafe as a pilot, or if there is
an effect to the lapse in taking the medication that renders the
individual unsafe as a pilot. This seems simple. I suppose that if a
"major depressive episode" does result suddenly, a very unlikely
sudden outcome, the individual may find just getting out of bed too
much of a challenge to face. Flying may not be in the cards for the
individual at that time.

These medications must be considered with caution and with careful
attention to the circumstances that have led to an individual being
prescribed these medications and to the effects the medications may
have on the individual.

It is easy to think of circumstances, real circumstances, that render
an individual unsafe as a pilot. This CAN be one of them, but it is
not the case that it MUST be one of them.

There are other medical conditions requiring on-going medication that
may not be disqualifying.

These medications are prescribed for many situations other than "major
depressive episodes". It is a sad and unjust attitude to ignore the
individual's circumstances. As it would be for the other medical
conditions that may allow for wavers after individual evaluation.

[Roger]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:34:12 GMT, Jose >
wrote:

>> Just because a bunch
>> of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
>> substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
>> it, and stay away from tomatoes.
>
>Report it? To whom? For what purpose?

Yes, the FAA, and it's required on your medical app (question 18e with
an explanation below).

If you have to be treated for a sever allergic reaction it's one of
those doctors visits that have to be reported on you medical app. You
also have to report allergies on there as well.

OTOH if the tomatoes only give you the runs, or a rash and you've
never gone to the Dr for help it's not considered a problem.

I'm allergic to dust, mold, and some pollen. I take allergy shots.
The shots take care of the problem and that keeps the FAA happy. I
just have to be sure not to take any banned meds for them and when it
comes to decongestants and antihistamines, there are a whole bunch of
those.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Jose

[Rachel]

Roger wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:34:12 GMT, Jose >
> wrote:
>
>
>>>Just because a bunch
>>>of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
>>>substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
>>>it, and stay away from tomatoes.
>>
>>Report it? To whom? For what purpose?
>
>
> Yes, the FAA, and it's required on your medical app (question 18e with
> an explanation below).
>
> If you have to be treated for a sever allergic reaction it's one of
> those doctors visits that have to be reported on you medical app. You
> also have to report allergies on there as well.
>
> OTOH if the tomatoes only give you the runs, or a rash and you've
> never gone to the Dr for help it's not considered a problem.
>
> I'm allergic to dust, mold, and some pollen. I take allergy shots.
> The shots take care of the problem and that keeps the FAA happy. I
> just have to be sure not to take any banned meds for them and when it
> comes to decongestants and antihistamines, there are a whole bunch of
> those.
>
Really? I've discovered that I'm pretty limited in what I can take. I
actually had to change allergists because he wanted to put me on
Zyrtec...I refsued to take it (sedating and not allowed), and he told me
that he would prefer I find a new doctor because I wasn't taking his
advice. You know, because I didn't tell him *why* I couldn't take it.

Anyway, I've only found a handful of medications that are allowed, and
only three work for me.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Rachel > wrote:

> Really? I've discovered that I'm pretty limited in what I can take. I
> actually had to change allergists because he wanted to put me on
> Zyrtec...I refsued to take it (sedating and not allowed), and he told me
> that he would prefer I find a new doctor because I wasn't taking his
> advice. You know, because I didn't tell him *why* I couldn't take it.

I'm confused. Why couldn't couldn't you tell him?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Roger]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:15:13 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
<wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:

>
>"Roger" > wrote in message
...
>
>> As do many over-the-counter meds. You take them for a while to see if
>> there is any adverse side effects and if none, you fly.
>>
>> Quite some time back I took an antibiotic which killed all the good
>> critters as well as the bad. I didn't fly, of course part of that was
>> because I didn't dare get more than about a 100 feet from the can for
>> a while.
>>
>> Many people have some reaction to specific foods and probably most
>> haven't even made the connection. I don't know the numbers, but my
>> understanding is, it's quite a large number. Just because a bunch
>> of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
>> substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
>> it, and stay away from tomatoes.
>>
>> I agree with Ron, if the person has no adverse effects from the drugs
>> and does not have physiological problems then why ban them when the
>> purpose for the prescription is not a problem.
>>
>>
>
>
>There is a wide difference from the effects of a food allergy and that of a
>psychoactive drug. The psychoactive drug effect can be very slow onset and

I used food as an analogy, but in some cases the effects of particular
foods can take a prolonged period to develop. Some effects are
aggression and depression, yet like with many drugs there is only a
casual link shown from a few studies.

It takes a lot of controlled studies of sufficient size to show a true
link, not the *reported* few instances of adverse effects. You find
in many cases the reported instances are no more than what was
reported from a placebo. Still, those reported effects have to be on
the label.

Among the foods listed were milk, sugar and drinks containing
caffeine..
Of course they have different effects on different people. Sugar just
makes some of us fat while it puts others into orbit. High milk
intake over a prolonged period was allegedly linked to aggression in
a couple of studies back in the 80's or early 90's. How valid were
these studies? I have no idea, however for a drug that probably would
have been enough to put it on the banned list.

The thing with allergies is they can pop up all of a sudden. Some
kids outgrow allergies, yet what ever the substance you have used, or
eaten it last week with no problem and have a severe reaction today.

>not outwardly visible. Add to that the fact the effect may be that you want
>to kill yourself or someone else I think the FAA has a pretty good set of
>rules in effect on this one.

There are quite a few people who fall into that category with out
taking the drugs.

They really need to look at the individual and how long they have
taken the drug and if there are any side effects. If the underlying
condition is disqualifying then it matters little what they are
taking.
>
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Roger]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:00:15 -0600, Rachel > wrote:

>Roger wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:34:12 GMT, Jose >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Just because a bunch
>>>>of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
>>>>substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
>>>>it, and stay away from tomatoes.
>>>
>>>Report it? To whom? For what purpose?
>>
>>
>> Yes, the FAA, and it's required on your medical app (question 18e with
>> an explanation below).
>>
>> If you have to be treated for a sever allergic reaction it's one of
>> those doctors visits that have to be reported on you medical app. You
>> also have to report allergies on there as well.
>>
>> OTOH if the tomatoes only give you the runs, or a rash and you've
>> never gone to the Dr for help it's not considered a problem.
>>
>> I'm allergic to dust, mold, and some pollen. I take allergy shots.
>> The shots take care of the problem and that keeps the FAA happy. I
>> just have to be sure not to take any banned meds for them and when it
>> comes to decongestants and antihistamines, there are a whole bunch of
>> those.
>>
>Really? I've discovered that I'm pretty limited in what I can take. I

That was what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant there are a
whole bunch of decongestants and antihistamines that are banned.

>actually had to change allergists because he wanted to put me on
>Zyrtec...I refsued to take it (sedating and not allowed), and he told me
>that he would prefer I find a new doctor because I wasn't taking his
>advice. You know, because I didn't tell him *why* I couldn't take it.

I'm very up front with the doctors and tell them I'm a pilot and
please don't give me any meds that are going to affect my medical
status. Sometimes they don't know and I have had to go back and tell
them I couldn't take the drug on the prescription.

One example is (and pardon the spellings) Astelin which is banned and
Beconase which is not, yet they are for the same thing. It's just
there have been a few individuals who has some reported side effects
from Astelin.
>
>Anyway, I've only found a handful of medications that are allowed, and
>only three work for me.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Rachel]

Bob Noel wrote:
> In article >,
> Rachel > wrote:
>
>
>>Really? I've discovered that I'm pretty limited in what I can take. I
>>actually had to change allergists because he wanted to put me on
>>Zyrtec...I refsued to take it (sedating and not allowed), and he told me
>>that he would prefer I find a new doctor because I wasn't taking his
>>advice. You know, because I didn't tell him *why* I couldn't take it.
>
>
> I'm confused. Why couldn't couldn't you tell him?
>
I did. He said that if I wanted to put my medical above my health, then
he didn't want to deal with me. Good riddance.

[Rachel]

Roger wrote:
<snip>
>
> That was what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant there are a
> whole bunch of decongestants and antihistamines that are banned.

Oh, yeah. See, that whole reading comprehension thing...

>
>>actually had to change allergists because he wanted to put me on
>>Zyrtec...I refsued to take it (sedating and not allowed), and he told me
>>that he would prefer I find a new doctor because I wasn't taking his
>>advice. You know, because I didn't tell him *why* I couldn't take it.
>
>
> I'm very up front with the doctors and tell them I'm a pilot and
> please don't give me any meds that are going to affect my medical
> status. Sometimes they don't know and I have had to go back and tell
> them I couldn't take the drug on the prescription.

> One example is (and pardon the spellings) Astelin which is banned and
> Beconase which is not, yet they are for the same thing. It's just
> there have been a few individuals who has some reported side effects
> from Astelin.

I actually filled a prescription for Astelin before I checked it. My
new, good, allergist said it probably wouldn't be an issue. It
was....but Atrovent works the same way and isn't banned.

[Margy]

Rachel wrote:
> Jim wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:15:13 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
>> <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> "Roger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>>> As do many over-the-counter meds. You take them for a while to see if
>>>> there is any adverse side effects and if none, you fly.
>>>>
>>>> Quite some time back I took an antibiotic which killed all the good
>>>> critters as well as the bad. I didn't fly, of course part of that was
>>>> because I didn't dare get more than about a 100 feet from the can for
>>>> a while.
>>>>
>>>> Many people have some reaction to specific foods and probably most
>>>> haven't even made the connection. I don't know the numbers, but my
>>>> understanding is, it's quite a large number. Just because a bunch
>>>> of people have a reaction to ... say tomatoes, they are not a banned
>>>> substance and if you have an allergy or reaction to them you report
>>>> it, and stay away from tomatoes.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Ron, if the person has no adverse effects from the drugs
>>>> and does not have physiological problems then why ban them when the
>>>> purpose for the prescription is not a problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is a wide difference from the effects of a food allergy and
>>> that of a psychoactive drug. The psychoactive drug effect can be very
>>> slow onset and not outwardly visible. Add to that the fact the effect
>>> may be that you want to kill yourself or someone else I think the FAA
>>> has a pretty good set of rules in effect on this one.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my view, this attitude is tragic and uninformed. It ignores the
>> living experiences of many who benefit from these medications and who
>> function better with them than without them in all aspects of their
>> lives.
>
>
> So what happens when someone forgets to take their medicine or slips and
> ends up in a major depressive episode and *won't* take it?

The guy is taking it for a Social Anxiety Disorder. If he forgets to
take it he'll get really stressed IF he hits a bar after his flight and
someone tries to strike up a conversation. He might even put his beer
down and go home! Now, I'm not saying SAD is not a serious condition
for the sufferer, but I don't think I have to stay awake nights worrying
about how safe this guy is.

I had a student once and her mom assured me before a field trip that
the kid had taken her anti-anxiety meds ... I thought maybe mom needed
the meds as the kid was a fairly level headed, sweet girl. Never a
problem in class, nice kid. So, we are in some park having a wonderful
time and this kid spots a dog about 1,000 feet away, well, I'm only 5'2"
tall and this 5th grader was about 5' flat. If you've never been
climbed by someone almost your height, it's an expeience! She was a bit
anxious about dogs!

If you don't have to live with anxiety, you shouldn't. If a year or two
of meds holds you together enough to re-train your thought patterns,
it's worth it.

Go for it and good luck on your new medical. The paperwork might make
you a bit nuts!

Margy

[Roger]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 17:21:44 -0600, Rachel > wrote:

>Roger wrote:
><snip>
>>
>> That was what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant there are a
>> whole bunch of decongestants and antihistamines that are banned.
>
>Oh, yeah. See, that whole reading comprehension thing...
>
>>
>>>actually had to change allergists because he wanted to put me on
>>>Zyrtec...I refsued to take it (sedating and not allowed), and he told me
>>>that he would prefer I find a new doctor because I wasn't taking his
>>>advice. You know, because I didn't tell him *why* I couldn't take it.
>>
>>
>> I'm very up front with the doctors and tell them I'm a pilot and
>> please don't give me any meds that are going to affect my medical
>> status. Sometimes they don't know and I have had to go back and tell
>> them I couldn't take the drug on the prescription.
>
>> One example is (and pardon the spellings) Astelin which is banned and
>> Beconase which is not, yet they are for the same thing. It's just
>> there have been a few individuals who has some reported side effects
>> from Astelin.
>
>I actually filled a prescription for Astelin before I checked it. My
>new, good, allergist said it probably wouldn't be an issue. It
>was....but Atrovent works the same way and isn't banned.

I took it for a while...*before* it was banned and reported it on the
medical "back then". I see that it is banned now, but switched to
Beconase which isn't.

It's kinda like the sports and banned meds. They suspended one guy
who was taking a hair restoration product. When he started it the
stuff wasn't banned. They changed the list and he was suspended.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com