Rubber Band Powered Aircraft?

[COLIN LAMB]

Ok, it would not be practical for a family flyer - but is anyone currently
experimenting with a rubber band powered aircraft? Any websites regarding
how much power is available, and for what duration?

I found some information on rubber band powered aircraft in the 1800's, but
few details. Seems like an ultralight ship ought to be able to get off the
ground - and that is what flying is all about.

Wonder what the distance record is for a rubber band powered aircraft?

Someone must have done it, because in some of the old movies the pilot yells
out "wind 'er up" just before takeoff.

Colin

[Richard Riley]

"Rubber Bandit" built by George Haven at Van Nuys in the 90's. I don't
know if it ever flew

http://www.rubberbandit.org/

[Flyingmonk]

I don't think it flew, according to the website, the last update was in
2003 and as of that date, it hasn't flown. If they did fly it, I'd bet
that they would've update that.

Interesting non-the-less. I can't see why it wouldn't fly.

The Monk

[Vaughn]

"COLIN LAMB" > wrote in message
. net...
> Ok, it would not be practical for a family flyer -

Actually, there is nothing new about rubber band powered aircraft.
http://www.answers.com/topic/bungee1-jpg

Vaughn

[Flyingmonk]

Cool, but not as interesting as powering a propellor with rubber band.
It is just the fact that we all (most anways) had owned and played with
one while we were kids. I always bought one or two from 7-11 when I
had extra change.

The Monk

[Ron Wanttaja]

Saw one at Oshkosh, in the Ultralight area, about 1988. Was called the "RB-1",
and for a "band" had some stuff that was originally used on high-tension lines
for insulation or some such. Heard it had flown successfully, a distance of
about 300 feet.

Got a picture of it, somewhere...

Ron Wanttaja

[Morgans]

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
>
> Saw one at Oshkosh, in the Ultralight area, about 1988. Was called the
"RB-1",
> and for a "band" had some stuff that was originally used on high-tension
lines
> for insulation or some such. Heard it had flown successfully, a distance
of
> about 300 feet.
>
> Got a picture of it, somewhere...

Do you recall if it had some kind of gearing between the engine and the
prop? I would think you would need to turn some of the torque into higher
RPM to turn the prop, to maximize run time. Just a guess.
--
Jim in NC

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 01:58:54 -0500, "Morgans" > wrote:

>
>"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Saw one at Oshkosh, in the Ultralight area, about 1988. Was called the
>> "RB-1", and for a "band" had some stuff that was originally used on
>> high-tension lines for insulation or some such. Heard it had flown
>> successfully, a distance of about 300 feet.
>
>Do you recall if it had some kind of gearing between the engine and the
>prop? I would think you would need to turn some of the torque into higher
>RPM to turn the prop, to maximize run time. Just a guess.

No gearing, just one hay-el of a lot of pitch on the prop.

Guess what, I was able to find one of the pictures:

http://www.wanttaja.com/RB1.jpg

Unless it's somewhat of a little tiny planetary gearbox, it's direct-drive.

It could, of course, be some sort of hoax, but I do recall hearing more about it
at the time.

(I originally wrote, "...some sort of joke..." but that's already a given. :-)

Ron Wanttaja

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article . com>, Richard
Riley says...
>
>"Rubber Bandit" built by George Haven at Van Nuys in the 90's. I don't
>know if it ever flew
>
>http://www.rubberbandit.org/

That's the one I was thinking of.I haven't heard much about it lately. I guess
they were going to wind it with a truck by hooking the rubber to the rear
tire.That all may have changed by now. If they took the cockpit area off it
looks like a P-30 model airplane.

See ya

Chuck S
>

[Frank]

I learned to fly using long rubber strips and kid power to strech it in high
school a loooong time ago. The plane didn't look quite like the one in this
picture - it was a (real)primary glider, single seat at the end of a pipe
that was the fuselage. It actualy did get in the air most of the time.

Frank

"Vaughn" > wrote in message
...
>
> "COLIN LAMB" > wrote in message
> . net...
>> Ok, it would not be practical for a family flyer -
>
> Actually, there is nothing new about rubber band powered aircraft.
> http://www.answers.com/topic/bungee1-jpg
>
> Vaughn
>

[Flyingmonk]

Thanks Ron. The plane looks very familiar, an ultralight that I've
examined at legnth before, but the name escapes me at the moment.

The Monk

[[email protected]]

>>plane looks very familiar, an ultralight that I've
examined at legnth before, but the name escapes me at the moment.>>

Looks like leftover Lazair parts.

http://www.ultralightnews.com/lazair/index.html
==================
Leon McAtee

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:05:13 -0800, Ron Wanttaja >
wrote:

>Guess what, I was able to find one of the pictures:
>
>http://www.wanttaja.com/RB1.jpg

....and, I found a mention of it, using the search feature of the EAA Sport
Aviation CD-ROM. From the September 1991 issue, page 9:

"New ultralight/light planes included Mark Lokken's RB-1, a rubber band powered
ultralight (it uses surgical tubing for power!)."

No other hits on it, though. Only other hit on 'Mark Lokken' relates to the
seaplane gathering at Oshkosh '98.

Ron "I love the Sport Aviation CDs!" Wanttaja

[[email protected]]

jc wrote:
> COLIN LAMB wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > Someone must have done it, because in some of the old movies the pilot
> > yells out "wind 'er up" just before takeoff.
>
> A starting method used for big engines (several 100 hp) involved a removable
> handle with a gear train to a high speed flywheel. When the flywheel was
> manually wound up to speed by ground crew the pilot engaged a clutch and
> the power flowed back through the gear train to the crankshaft hopefully
> starting the engine.
>

In the movie _The Great Escape_ James Garner and Donald Pleasance
steal a Luftwaffe trainer with that type of starter. I forget what it
is called.

Oh, and here is a bit of trivia. Donald Pleasance was an actual
POW during WWII. He was a crewman on a Lancaster (IIRC) that
was shot down.

--

FF

[[email protected]]

Morgans wrote:
> "Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Saw one at Oshkosh, in the Ultralight area, about 1988. Was called the
> "RB-1",
> > and for a "band" had some stuff that was originally used on high-tension
> lines
> > for insulation or some such. Heard it had flown successfully, a distance
> of
> > about 300 feet.
> >
> > Got a picture of it, somewhere...
>
> Do you recall if it had some kind of gearing between the engine and the
> prop? I would think you would need to turn some of the torque into higher
> RPM to turn the prop, to maximize run time. Just a guess.
> --

You could also launch with a bungee and then sustain with the prop.

--

FF

[Morgans]

> wrote

> In the movie _The Great Escape_ James Garner and Donald Pleasance
> steal a Luftwaffe trainer with that type of starter. I forget what it
> is called.

Inertial starter. It is highly geared, so you start out cranking really
slow, then it picks up speed.
--
Jim in NC

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article . com>,
says...

>In the movie _The Great Escape_ James Garner and Donald Pleasance
>steal a Luftwaffe trainer with that type of starter. I forget what it
>is called.
>
>Oh, and here is a bit of trivia. Donald Pleasance was an actual
>POW during WWII. He was a crewman on a Lancaster (IIRC) that
>was shot down.


I think the plane was a Me-108 it was used as a civil plane then a trainer and
later a squadron hack.It had an inertia starter I believe.Wind it up and go :-)

Chuck(I was just a kid then) S

[[email protected]]

Bryan Martin wrote:
> in article . com,
> at wrote on 2/14/06 1:18 PM:
>
> >
> > jc wrote:
> >> COLIN LAMB wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>> Someone must have done it, because in some of the old movies the pilot
> >>> yells out "wind 'er up" just before takeoff.
> >>
> >> A starting method used for big engines (several 100 hp) involved a removable
> >> handle with a gear train to a high speed flywheel. When the flywheel was
> >> manually wound up to speed by ground crew the pilot engaged a clutch and
> >> the power flowed back through the gear train to the crankshaft hopefully
> >> starting the engine.
> >>
> >
> > In the movie _The Great Escape_ James Garner and Donald Pleasance
> > steal a Luftwaffe trainer with that type of starter. I forget what it
> > is called.
> >
> > Oh, and here is a bit of trivia. Donald Pleasance was an actual
> > POW during WWII. He was a crewman on a Lancaster (IIRC) that
> > was shot down.
>
>
> That airplane in the move may have had an actual hand crank starter like
> many old cars used to have. It seems unlikely that such a small plane would
> have used an inertial starter. But then the Germans have been known to over
> engineer things. :)

ISTM that a trainer for fighter pilots should have a very big engine to
prepare the pilots for real fighters with engines over 1,000 hp.

In the movie, the starter functioned as OP described, the cranking
started out slowly and got faster and faster before there was any
indication that the engine kicked in.

--

FF

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"Morgans" > wrote:

> > wrote
>
> > In the movie _The Great Escape_ James Garner and Donald Pleasance
> > steal a Luftwaffe trainer with that type of starter. I forget what it
> > is called.
>
> Inertial starter. It is highly geared, so you start out cranking really
> slow, then it picks up speed.


Some Stearmans had an inertial starter. I remember that the University
of Illinois used them for an aerobatic course in the late 1950s/early
1960s.

They had an electric setup that wound up the starter to a certain sound.
then the pilot threw a clutch and the engine started turning, then it
got that "Blurp!, Blup!, Cough!, Ptupp, Ptupp, Ptupp" sound of a radial
starting up, along with a small cloud of blue smoke. I have always loved
that whole sequence of sounds! My second favorite startup sound is that
of a Bendix E-80 starter, with its muffled sound s it starts an engine
(used on everything from an O-435 Lycoming through an R-1340 P&W).

Some inertial starters used internal power to wind up the flywheel, too.

[Flyingmonk]

Thank you Leon and Chuck. I'm surprised that I haven't seen clips of
these flying. There's no reason why it wouldn't fly.

The Monk

[Ron Wanttaja]

On 14 Feb 2006 15:03:56 -0800, ChuckSlusarczyk
> wrote:

>In article . com>,
says...
>
>>In the movie _The Great Escape_ James Garner and Donald Pleasance
>>steal a Luftwaffe trainer with that type of starter. I forget what it
>>is called.
>
>I think the plane was a Me-108 it was used as a civil plane then a trainer and
>later a squadron hack.It had an inertia starter I believe.Wind it up and go :-)

Don't think it was a 108, Chuck. My guess is that it was a Bucker Bu 181
Bestmann:

http://www.fantasyofflight.com/aircraftpages/bestmann.htm

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/bu181.html

There was an outfit at Oshkosh a couple of years back trying to sell these as
kits.


Ron Wanttaja

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Ron Wanttaja says...

>
>Don't think it was a 108, Chuck. My guess is that it was a Bucker Bu 181
>Bestmann:
>
>http://www.fantasyofflight.com/aircraftpages/bestmann.htm
>
>http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/bu181.html
>
>There was an outfit at Oshkosh a couple of years back trying to sell these as
>kits.

You may be right it's been a while since I saw the movie. Now I'm scratching my
head trying to figure which movie had a Me-108.:-)
Just before bed too!! How am I gonna sleep trying to figure out which movie???

See ya

Chuck S

[COLIN LAMB]

"Blurp!, Blup!, Cough!, Ptupp, Ptupp, Ptupp

My god, Orval, that is exactly what it sounds like. Good sound effects.

Colin

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:43:42 -0800, Ron Wanttaja >
wrote:

>Don't think it was a 108, Chuck. My guess is that it was a Bucker Bu 181
>Bestmann:

Some reference photos:

Movie Screenshot:

http://www.wanttaja.com/ge.jpg

Bestmann:

http://sbeaver.tzo.com/bucker/images/Bestmann/P0001190.JPG

Some differences, but mostly just engine, I think.

Ron Wanttaja

[Ron Wanttaja]

On 14 Feb 2006 19:07:00 -0800, ChuckSlusarczyk
> wrote:

>In article >, Ron Wanttaja says...
>
>>
>>Don't think it was a 108, Chuck. My guess is that it was a Bucker Bu 181
>>Bestmann:
>>
>>http://www.fantasyofflight.com/aircraftpages/bestmann.htm
>>
>>http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/bu181.html
>>
>>There was an outfit at Oshkosh a couple of years back trying to sell these as
>>kits.
>
>You may be right it's been a while since I saw the movie. Now I'm scratching my
>head trying to figure which movie had a Me-108.:-)

A bunch of them...any WWII movie during the '60s until "Battle of Britain" used
ME-108s. "633 Squadron" and "The Longest Day", for example. It wasn't until
the producers shook free some HA-1112s from the Spanish Air Force that you saw
things approaching real ME-109s.

As far as the starting sequence in "The Great Escape," I just watched it on the
way to grabbing that screen shot. Indeed, the Pleasance character starts
turning the handle slow, and gradually increasing speed.

However, it didn't work like I think an inertia starter does. He cranked the
handle, but the prop turned slowly at the same time, kicking over once or twice
until it starts. It was like it was very low gearing, instead of an inertia
system. I'm used to seeing guys turn the crank to spin the flywheel, then the
pilot clutching-in the flywheel to the engine. This was like direct drive.

Actuality...or movie magic?

Ron Wanttaja

[Morgans]

"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote

> Some inertial starters used internal power to wind up the flywheel, too.

Sure, there is no reason that they would not work well, especially for
starting a very large engine.

A smaller motor can spin a flywheel, expending 30 amps (just for example)
for 10 seconds, and end up with 3,000 amps of starting power. It would take
a very large motor, and wires, and battery to match that kind of power.
--
Jim in NC

[Flyingmonk]

Thank you Leon and Chuck. I'm surprised that I haven't seen clips of
these flying. There's no reason why it wouldn't fly.

The Monk

[Montblack]

("Ron Wanttaja" wrote)
>>You may be right it's been a while since I saw the movie. Now I'm
>>scratching my head trying to figure which movie had a Me-108.:-)

> A bunch of them...any WWII movie during the '60s until "Battle of Britain"
> used ME-108s. "633 Squadron" and "The Longest Day", for example. It
> wasn't until the producers shook free some HA-1112s from the Spanish Air
> Force that you saw things approaching real ME-109s.


Military Aviation Movie List
http://www.coastcomp.com/av/fltline2/avmovie.htm
Fun movie/airplane site with some effort behind it.


Montblack

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
ChuckSlusarczyk > wrote:

> In article >, Ron Wanttaja says...
> >>A bunch of them...any WWII movie during the '60s until "Battle of Britain"
> >>used
> >ME-108s. "633 Squadron" and "The Longest Day", for example. It wasn't
> >until
> >the producers shook free some HA-1112s from the Spanish Air Force that you
> >saw
> >things approaching real ME-109s.
>
> All except the engines didn't the Spanish built 109 have Hisso&*%**# engines
> which changed the look of the nose .

They got Merlins after the supply of DBs dried up at the end of WW-II.

[John Ousterhout]

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
>
> I think the plane was a Me-108 it was used as a civil plane then a trainer and
> later a squadron hack.It had an inertia starter I believe.Wind it up and go :-)
>
> Chuck(I was just a kid then) S

You still are just a kid Chuck.

and it's a damn good childhood you're having too.

- John Ousterhout -

[wright1902glider]

Like Bugs Bunny winding up for a pitch ...in the short where he
single-handedly (does Bugs have "hands"?) takes on the Gas-house
gorrillas.

rrrrrr.... rrrrrrrmrmrrr...... rrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRR,
rrmmmmrrRRRRRRRRRrrr, mmmmmmmrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR,
mmmmmmmmmRRRRRRRR..... peeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwww, KApump, pumpffff,
pumppffff, kerPACK, blub, blub, blub.......


My Dad tells me that the Bell 214 uses electric-powered inerta starters
for its turbine engines. But that helicopter's rotor mass is somewhere
in the neighborhood of 2 tons.

Harry

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Orval
Fairbairn says...
>>
>> All except the engines didn't the Spanish built 109 have Hisso&*%**# engines
>> which changed the look of the nose .
>
>They got Merlins after the supply of DBs dried up at the end of WW-II.

Your right they had Dammm*&%$$$# Ben#%$&** engines not Hiss#@#%$&^%4 Wrong war
:-)besides Merlin is so much easier to spell :-)

See ya

Chuck S

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article <mZIIf.558321$084.430955@attbi_s22>, John Ousterhout says...
>
>ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
>>
>>I think the plane was a Me-108 it was used as a civil plane then a trainer and
>>later a squadron hack.It had an inertia starter I believe.Wind it up and go :-)
>>
>> Chuck(I was just a kid then) S
>
>You still are just a kid Chuck.
>
>and it's a damn good childhood you're having too.
>
>- John Ousterhout -


Thank you kind sir but sooner or later I'll have to grow up but I'm having way
too much fun with my childhood to give it much consideration LOL!!

See ya

Chuck (had a confirmation now I'm going for a bar mitzva)S
>

[jerry wass]

Having in my possesion two ( ECLIPSE ELECTRIC STARTER ENERGIZERS )I have
become with the types of starters used back when I wuz a kid.
I soloed in a PT-19 w/ a Ranger inverted 6 .. It was a direct drive hand
crank that turned the engine slowly (albeit jerkily) with one or two
manpower applied to the crank.
The stearmans had the Inertia type where the ground personnel started
(slowly) cranking up the flywheel, when the proper whine was reached,
one of them pulled the clutch actuator which engaged it, turning the
engine over rather briskly for a turn or two,

At a flying school with 50-100 planes this could get tiring, so they
came out with 110 volt electric motors with about a 3 ft shaft extending
to a 90° gear box that took the place of the hand crank---there were a
couple of models, Eclipse , and Jack& Heintz, The Eclipse had a spring
loaded clutch that slipped before enough torque was developed to spin
the ground person around the side of the fuselage.---J&H had a flimsy
3/8" aluminum tube in the drive shaft that twisted up & sheared
(hopefully before spinning the operator).. Needless to say, the J&H was
out of service for the rest of the morning until the unit was
disassembled & the shaft replaced.

Eclipse also made the inertia unit with an integral starter motor, AND
the crank hole ALSO.. so if your battery went dead, you could still
start.---Jerry

















ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
> In article <mZIIf.558321$084.430955@attbi_s22>, John Ousterhout says...
>
>>ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
>>
>>>I think the plane was a Me-108 it was used as a civil plane then a trainer and
>>>later a squadron hack.It had an inertia starter I believe.Wind it up and go :-)
>>>
>>>Chuck(I was just a kid then) S
>>
>>You still are just a kid Chuck.
>>
>>and it's a damn good childhood you're having too.
>>
>>- John Ousterhout -
>
>
>
> Thank you kind sir but sooner or later I'll have to grow up but I'm having way
> too much fun with my childhood to give it much consideration LOL!!
>
> See ya
>
> Chuck (had a confirmation now I'm going for a bar mitzva)S
>
>