CFI annual TSA renewal

[Robert M. Gary]

Has anyone started the annual process of renewing their TSA
certification? I just went and retook the on-line exam but AOPA is now
saying the initial TSA test does not meet the requirements of renewal.
So are all CFIs grounded until someone comes up with a renewal (I know
you can get the renewal when you go to your CFI renewal course, but I
only do that every 2 years).

-Robert

[Rachel]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Has anyone started the annual process of renewing their TSA
> certification? I just went and retook the on-line exam but AOPA is now
> saying the initial TSA test does not meet the requirements of renewal.
> So are all CFIs grounded until someone comes up with a renewal (I know
> you can get the renewal when you go to your CFI renewal course, but I
> only do that every 2 years).
>
> -Robert
>

Oops...I talked to AOPA a while ago about this, and they said they were
working on a new course.

I didn't even think about that...I did the TSA course last January,
guess I'm not eligible to instruct now. What bull****.

[Roy Smith]

In article om>,
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> Has anyone started the annual process of renewing their TSA
> certification? I just went and retook the on-line exam but AOPA is now
> saying the initial TSA test does not meet the requirements of renewal.
> So are all CFIs grounded until someone comes up with a renewal (I know
> you can get the renewal when you go to your CFI renewal course, but I
> only do that every 2 years).
>
> -Robert

Renewal??? You're supposed to do that every year? Where does it say
that??? I just finished renewing my CFI (the Gleim on-line FIRC), and it
didn't say anything about having to renew my TSA.

[Jim Macklin]

It is in the TSA rules, the ones that make us safe because
you can only learn how to crash an airliner if you train in
the USA.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
| In article
om>,
| "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
|
| > Has anyone started the annual process of renewing their
TSA
| > certification? I just went and retook the on-line exam
but AOPA is now
| > saying the initial TSA test does not meet the
requirements of renewal.
| > So are all CFIs grounded until someone comes up with a
renewal (I know
| > you can get the renewal when you go to your CFI renewal
course, but I
| > only do that every 2 years).
| >
| > -Robert
|
| Renewal??? You're supposed to do that every year? Where
does it say
| that??? I just finished renewing my CFI (the Gleim
on-line FIRC), and it
| didn't say anything about having to renew my TSA.

[Jim Burns]

From the NAFI website:
TSA Issues Recurrency Training Exemption for CFIs

December 14, 2005 - Responding to strong requests and suggestions from NAFI
and EAA officials, the Transportation Security Administration has issued an
exemption to independent flight instructors and flight school employees in
technical default of the recurrency requirements set forth in September,
2004. The requirements in question mandated each individual to complete
recurrent training annually in the same calendar month as the initial
training.

By letter dated 13 December 2005, TSA General Manager Robert Rottman granted
an exemption to all flight school employees and CFIs, extending until 01
January 2007 and permitting a delay of up to but not beyond 18 months to
complete the first recurrent training.

The ruling is posted on he TSA website at posted on the TSA website; go to
www.TSA.gov, then, Travelers and Consumers, then Air Travel, then General
Aviation, mid page. Questions should be addressed to



"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Has anyone started the annual process of renewing their TSA
> certification? I just went and retook the on-line exam but AOPA is now
> saying the initial TSA test does not meet the requirements of renewal.
> So are all CFIs grounded until someone comes up with a renewal (I know
> you can get the renewal when you go to your CFI renewal course, but I
> only do that every 2 years).
>
> -Robert
>

[Jim Burns]

And the PDF buried in the TSA.gov website:
http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/Exemption_FSSA_re-current.pdf

Jim


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Has anyone started the annual process of renewing their TSA
> certification? I just went and retook the on-line exam but AOPA is now
> saying the initial TSA test does not meet the requirements of renewal.
> So are all CFIs grounded until someone comes up with a renewal (I know
> you can get the renewal when you go to your CFI renewal course, but I
> only do that every 2 years).
>
> -Robert
>

[Jim Burns]

Sorry for the multiple posts, but I just keep finding all kinds of
goodies...
Here is another link from the TSA site that contains the FSSA download.
I've only got dial up here at work, so I'll take a look at it tonight at
home, but I can't see how taking the TSA's own training wouldn't qualify for
recurrent training... BUT... we're not talking about something that makes
sense anyway... so who knows.

http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1727.xml

Jim

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Has anyone started the annual process of renewing their TSA
> certification? I just went and retook the on-line exam but AOPA is now
> saying the initial TSA test does not meet the requirements of renewal.
> So are all CFIs grounded until someone comes up with a renewal (I know
> you can get the renewal when you go to your CFI renewal course, but I
> only do that every 2 years).
>
> -Robert
>

[Robert M. Gary]

It sure would have saved a lot of problems had anyone in the TSA spoke
to any CFI before coming up with these rules. Just the fact that they
were shocked after releasing the rule that some CFIs don't work for
flight schools tells you something.

-Robert

[Jim Macklin]

TSA or Too Stupid for Arby's


Make a rule and the problem is solved. Doesn't matter if
the rule is workable, effective or understandable, the rule
solves the problem. What is the problem you ask? We have
to "do something."

TSA didn't even ask the FAA, let alone the AOPA, EAA, NAFI
or me.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| It sure would have saved a lot of problems had anyone in
the TSA spoke
| to any CFI before coming up with these rules. Just the
fact that they
| were shocked after releasing the rule that some CFIs don't
work for
| flight schools tells you something.
|
| -Robert
|

[Scott D]

On 12 Feb 2006 21:57:27 -0800, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>Has anyone started the annual process of renewing their TSA
>certification? I just went and retook the on-line exam but AOPA is now
>saying the initial TSA test does not meet the requirements of renewal.


Hmm. I had no idea that what the TSA had on their site was not good
enough for a recurrence. I had the link on my computer from when I
took it the first time and so all I did was go back to it and took the
lame thing again, printed out that so called Certificate that looks
like a first grader made up and stuck it in the files.

Scott D.

take out the obvious to email me

[nooneimportant]

Just took it the first time myself a couple of weeks ago... was an absolute
joke. Did i learn anything more then common sense from taking the
"course?".....no.... did it ever test my knowledge?.... no.... Did it record
the results of my testing for electronic verification?..... no.... Could I
have made the "graduation certificate" myself using microsoft paint in less
then five minutes?..... YES..... Amazing....


<Scott D> wrote in message
...
> On 12 Feb 2006 21:57:27 -0800, "Robert M. Gary" >
> wrote:
>
>>Has anyone started the annual process of renewing their TSA
>>certification? I just went and retook the on-line exam but AOPA is now
>>saying the initial TSA test does not meet the requirements of renewal.
>
>
> Hmm. I had no idea that what the TSA had on their site was not good
> enough for a recurrence. I had the link on my computer from when I
> took it the first time and so all I did was go back to it and took the
> lame thing again, printed out that so called Certificate that looks
> like a first grader made up and stuck it in the files.
>
> Scott D.
>
> take out the obvious to email me
>

[Jim Macklin]

I think MS Flight Simulator had a New York City skyline with
the WTC about 6 years ago. I guess that means that not only
is it George Bush's fault, but Bill Gates also is to blame.

And the History Channel needs to stop showing those WWII
films of airplanes crashing into ships during that bit of
unpleasantness 60 years ago [PC description of WWII].

If TSA does not stop Arab looking males because it might be
"profiling" don't they have to profile in order to determine
which people are not to be stopped and searched?

Sci-Fi TV and movie theme, surgically implanted
explosives...StarWars, StarTrek, just imagine, Rachel Welch
with C4 instead of silicone. Or Casper Milquetoast Muhammad
with a body like Arnold, just have plastic explosive
surgery.



--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
|I wonder at what point aviation training books will become
illegal as
| well. Perhaps you'll need to pass a TSA background check
before you buy
| Jepp's books. I'm sure those King video courses are on the
TSA radar.
| Sounds like Jim has the right answer. What we really need
to do is to
| spend lots of money at Arby's and these guys can have
their old jobs
| back.
|
|
|
| -Robert
|

[Montblack]

("Jim Macklin" wrote)
> Sci-Fi TV and movie theme, surgically implanted explosives...StarWars,
> StarTrek, just imagine, Rachel Welch with C4 instead of silicone. Or
> Casper Milquetoast Muhammad with a body like Arnold, just have plastic
> explosive surgery.


<http://www.eonline.com/Features/Features/Schwarzenegger/Links/Images/links.main.jpg>
Total Recall (1990)


Montblack
It blow'd up. It blow'd up real good.

[Jim Macklin]

Yep, it is a common story line... StarTrek Enterprise, ship
hijacked by religious extremists.


"Montblack" > wrote in
message ...
| ("Jim Macklin" wrote)
| > Sci-Fi TV and movie theme, surgically implanted
explosives...StarWars,
| > StarTrek, just imagine, Rachel Welch with C4 instead of
silicone. Or
| > Casper Milquetoast Muhammad with a body like Arnold,
just have plastic
| > explosive surgery.
|
|
|
<http://www.eonline.com/Features/Features/Schwarzenegger/Links/Images/links.main.jpg>
| Total Recall (1990)
|
|
| Montblack
| It blow'd up. It blow'd up real good.
|

[Rachel]

nooneimportant wrote:
> Just took it the first time myself a couple of weeks ago... was an absolute
> joke. Did i learn anything more then common sense from taking the
> "course?".....no.... did it ever test my knowledge?.... no.... Did it record
> the results of my testing for electronic verification?..... no.... Could I
> have made the "graduation certificate" myself using microsoft paint in less
> then five minutes?..... YES..... Amazing....
>
My favorite part was the answer to every question was "ask your
supervisor". Um, until I moved, I was freelance - I had no supervisor.
What a waste of time.

[Rachel]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> I wonder at what point aviation training books will become illegal as
> well. Perhaps you'll need to pass a TSA background check before you buy
> Jepp's books. I'm sure those King video courses are on the TSA radar.
> Sounds like Jim has the right answer. What we really need to do is to
> spend lots of money at Arby's and these guys can have their old jobs
> back.

Just after Sept 11, I was coming back from Europe, using my flight bag
as a carryon...I hadn't cleaned it out completely before leaving. The
screener at the gate, back when they got to annoy us there, too, asked
me why I had approach plates with me. I'm not sure she knew what they
were, but you've got to admit the gov chart look pretty official. I
told her it wasn't any of her business.

Ahh, to be young and stupid enough to **** off security screeners again.

[nooneimportant]

"Rachel" > wrote in message
...
> nooneimportant wrote:
>> Just took it the first time myself a couple of weeks ago... was an
>> absolute joke. Did i learn anything more then common sense from taking
>> the "course?".....no.... did it ever test my knowledge?.... no.... Did it
>> record the results of my testing for electronic verification?..... no....
>> Could I have made the "graduation certificate" myself using microsoft
>> paint in less then five minutes?..... YES..... Amazing....
>>
> My favorite part was the answer to every question was "ask your
> supervisor". Um, until I moved, I was freelance - I had no supervisor.
> What a waste of time.
>

my fav is when they required locked gates to the ramp at the academy i teach
at... we we all have to enter a combination to enter the ramp area.... yet
the gate 200' away across the ramp... is.... you guessed it.... UNLOCKED...
and not required to be... even tho its closer to the aircraft then our
combination locks...

[[email protected]]

I have been working in IT industry for more than 3 years and have
worked at almost all phases of Software testing.

Detailed description of my career profile including Professional
Experience, Skill Set, Current Profile etc. is available in the
attached word document


My current profile gives me an opportunity to function and deliver
tasks that range from cross domains - cross technologies including
technical , Client Management, QA , Support. Further, I would be
willing to shift over to a similar profile as i am executing currently
but i am very adaptable to other profiles including being a
techno-commercial interface.

I am currently working for SUVI Information Pvt Ltd-CMMI Level III,
Indore, India, as a QA lead for wireless team.

I would like to have an opportunity to discuss at length my suitability
with your current requirement..

Looking forward for a response and further a personal interaction

Warm Regards

Neha Deshpande

[Robert M. Gary]

>me why I had approach plates with me.

I would think that would be a good sign. If a terrorist carries
approach plates he must have plans to land. When I've had to go
retrieve planes I've usually found the security guys to be pretty
understanding of me having my flight bag on board. However, it does
always guarantee me a spot in the "special line" because I"m one-way.

-Robert

[Dave Stadt]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> If TSA does not stop Arab looking males because it might be
>> "profiling" don't they have to profile in order to determine
>> which people are not to be stopped and searched?
>
> I think its a problem with statistics. 100% of the people that hijacked
> planes were middle Eastern men. However, Norm has decided that for
> screening purposes, they cannot make up more of a percentage searched
> than they make up a percentage of passengers. Everytime I see a blue
> haired old lady standing at the security check point with her bag open
> and her med bottles spread out all over the place, I just can't wonder
> what percentage of hijackers historically have been blue haired old
> ladies?? That's a question I would just love to ask Norm.
>
> -Robert

Norm is still fighting WWII. That's why he picks on blue haired old ladies.
He is also once again pushing for user fees. What a guy, what a guy.

[Jose]

> I just can't wonder
> what percentage of hijackers historically have been

We don't want to stop the attacks that have already occured. We want to
stop the attacks that would =in=the=future= occur. Were you a
terrorist, you might consider using little old ladies. (hint - it's
been done already)

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jim Macklin]

Years ago, long before 9-11, a screener at Springfield, MO,
asked about the knife in my carry-on bag. Turned out she
was seeing the hold open bar in my Jep book.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| >me why I had approach plates with me.
|
| I would think that would be a good sign. If a terrorist
carries
| approach plates he must have plans to land. When I've had
to go
| retrieve planes I've usually found the security guys to be
pretty
| understanding of me having my flight bag on board.
However, it does
| always guarantee me a spot in the "special line" because
I"m one-way.
|
| -Robert
|

[Jim Macklin]

I once suggested that everybody be required to be nude,
everywhere, school, work, the supermarket, on the trains,
buses and airlines. Would speed up security searches.
Exceptions would be made for those people who are so modest
that they must be covered, they just have to get a concealed
weapons permit, because clothes equal armed.
Certain people could be required to be clothed if they are
too ugly, fat or otherwise so repulsive that they would
cause projectile vomit.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
|> If TSA does not stop Arab looking males because it might
be
| > "profiling" don't they have to profile in order to
determine
| > which people are not to be stopped and searched?
|
| I think its a problem with statistics. 100% of the people
that hijacked
| planes were middle Eastern men. However, Norm has decided
that for
| screening purposes, they cannot make up more of a
percentage searched
| than they make up a percentage of passengers. Everytime I
see a blue
| haired old lady standing at the security check point with
her bag open
| and her med bottles spread out all over the place, I just
can't wonder
| what percentage of hijackers historically have been blue
haired old
| ladies?? That's a question I would just love to ask Norm.
|
| -Robert
|

[Jose]

> I once suggested that everybody be required to be nude,
> everywhere, school, work, the supermarket, on the trains,
> buses and airlines.

I'm all in favor of shedding unnecessary clothing, but the NYC subways
is not somewhere I think I'd want anybody to be nude. :)

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> >me why I had approach plates with me.
>
> I would think that would be a good sign. If a terrorist carries
> approach plates he must have plans to land. When I've had to go
> retrieve planes I've usually found the security guys to be pretty
> understanding of me having my flight bag on board. However, it does
> always guarantee me a spot in the "special line" because I"m one-way.
>
> -Robert
>

You mean you don't buy round trip and toss the return it's usually cheaper?

[Jim Macklin]

Perhaps they could make paper or Tyvek jumpsuits available
in vending machines.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jose" > wrote in message
. ..
|> I once suggested that everybody be required to be nude,
| > everywhere, school, work, the supermarket, on the
trains,
| > buses and airlines.
|
| I'm all in favor of shedding unnecessary clothing, but the
NYC subways
| is not somewhere I think I'd want anybody to be nude. :)
|
| Jose
| --
| Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>> If TSA does not stop Arab looking males because it might be
>>> "profiling" don't they have to profile in order to determine
>>> which people are not to be stopped and searched?
>>
>> I think its a problem with statistics. 100% of the people that hijacked
>> planes were middle Eastern men. However, Norm has decided that for
>> screening purposes, they cannot make up more of a percentage searched
>> than they make up a percentage of passengers. Everytime I see a blue
>> haired old lady standing at the security check point with her bag open
>> and her med bottles spread out all over the place, I just can't wonder
>> what percentage of hijackers historically have been blue haired old
>> ladies?? That's a question I would just love to ask Norm.
>>
>> -Robert
>
> Norm is still fighting WWII. That's why he picks on blue haired old
> ladies. He is also once again pushing for user fees. What a guy, what a
> guy.
>
>
>
>

It isn't Norm, it is the liberals who crap themselves at the thought of
taking into account that 99.99% of those that have sworn death to the
American infidels also happen to be Arab or other Middle Eastern.

[Rachel]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>me why I had approach plates with me.
>
>
> I would think that would be a good sign. If a terrorist carries
> approach plates he must have plans to land.

LMAO...I've had a really bad week and that totally made me laugh.

[Rachel]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> I once suggested that everybody be required to be nude,
> everywhere, school, work, the supermarket, on the trains,
> buses and airlines. Would speed up security searches.

My brother threated to strip at an airport checkpoint once. Here's why...

I was fortunate enough to hear a lecture by Oliver North a few years ago
at my university. He told a story about clearing security at a North
Carolina airport, just after the shoe bomber incident. The screener
didn't recognize him, and made him take off his shoes. Annoyed, he said
(and I'm fuzzy after this part of the story), "What would you do if
I/someone had a bomb in my underwear?" Long story short, he ended up
with his pants around his knees, being wanded when he moved and the
screener hit the panic button. He said that he looked over this
shoulder and saw six North Carolina state troopers heading up the
stairs. The lead one saw what was going on and about died laughing when
he saw Oliver North there with his pants down, being searched. Damnit,
I wish I could remember the entire story.

I told the story to my brother, who decided in the true spirit of the
Marine Corps, he would strip next time he got hassled by the TSA...I
mean, if you're nude, you can't hide anything, right? Unfortunately, I
happened to be with him and nearly died of embarrassment.

Of course, this is the same man who swears he can carry on his sword, so
he's obviously got no problem being arrested at the airport.