Military Airfield Procedures..

[Dan]

Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway I was to land
on. Being unfamiliar with arresting gear and flying an Archer, I asked
the controller specifically what that meant. He indicated that it
consisted of a cable stretched across the runway about 6 inches high.
Since it seemed that this could seriously damage an Archer, I made sure
to land beyond it. (although it's exact position was difficult to
determine at night.)

Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.

On another note, as I was inbound on the ILS, the tower handed me over
to someone else for a "monitored" approach. This controller called my
position on the ILS and advised of any deviations. There was no
parallel ILS in progress. Is this just the way things are done at a
military field?

-Dan

[Peter Clark]

On 25 Feb 2006 14:19:32 -0800, "Dan" > wrote:

Isn't the arresting gear charted as the E-23 lines on the airport
diagram? http://avn.faa.gov/d-tpp/0602/00511AD.PDF

I think the 1000x200 is how far up the runway and how wide the wire is
(for 3L at least, there are other similar numbers like 600x200 at the
other end)?

>On another note, as I was inbound on the ILS, the tower handed me over
>to someone else for a "monitored" approach. This controller called my
>position on the ILS and advised of any deviations. There was no
>parallel ILS in progress. Is this just the way things are done at a
>military field?

Did they say "No further acknowledgement required" or something to
that effect? If so you got a PAR (Precision Approach Radar). They
light up two radars, one for vertical and one for lateral positioning
and guide you all the way down. There's no civilian plate for these
(is there a military plate somewhere?) but it's a cool approach to
shoot with a safety pilot. Since the radar guidance is precision, you
need no onboard equipment to shoot this approach. I think it's fun to
go up with a safety pilot, cover the AI and DG, and shoot the approach
using altimeter, wet compass, and ground controllers only until they
call minimums, at which point you should be able to pop off the hood
and have a runway right in front of you.

[Dan]

I was specifically on the ILS 21R. No mention of PAR, however they did
say "this will be a monitored approach" and handed me off to someone
else who simply gave me these position reports. I was unsure if I was
expected to acknowledge.

[Mitty]

On 2/25/2006 5:33 PM, Dan wrote the following:
> I was specifically on the ILS 21R. No mention of PAR, however they did
> say "this will be a monitored approach" and handed me off to someone
> else who simply gave me these position reports. I was unsure if I was
> expected to acknowledge.
>

Why don't you call them and ask for an explanation of what happened?
I think we'd all be interested to hear. In the few times I've called
ATC with a question they have been very willing to explain and help.

[BTIZ]

a monitored approach is one step short of a PAR
BT

"Dan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I was specifically on the ILS 21R. No mention of PAR, however they did
> say "this will be a monitored approach" and handed me off to someone
> else who simply gave me these position reports. I was unsure if I was
> expected to acknowledge.
>

[BTIZ]

I should add.. that sometimes it is for controller currency..
he needs to do xx monitored approaches or xx PARs per quarter, just like you
need 3 landings per 90 days to carry pax

BT

"Dan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I was specifically on the ILS 21R. No mention of PAR, however they did
> say "this will be a monitored approach" and handed me off to someone
> else who simply gave me these position reports. I was unsure if I was
> expected to acknowledge.
>

[JPH]

Dan wrote:
> Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
> mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway I was to land
> on. Being unfamiliar with arresting gear and flying an Archer, I asked
> the controller specifically what that meant. He indicated that it
> consisted of a cable stretched across the runway about 6 inches high.
> Since it seemed that this could seriously damage an Archer, I made sure
> to land beyond it. (although it's exact position was difficult to
> determine at night.)
>
> Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
> type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.
>
> On another note, as I was inbound on the ILS, the tower handed me over
> to someone else for a "monitored" approach. This controller called my
> position on the ILS and advised of any deviations. There was no
> parallel ILS in progress. Is this just the way things are done at a
> military field?
>
> -Dan
>
The cable is suspended above the ground by rubber "donuts" to give it
enough height for a tailhook to engage it. Acft with very small tires
will feel like the aircraft "bounces" when going over the cable. The
cable could possibly bounce up slightly when you run over it and snag
any very low antennas or other protuberances on the bottom of the
aircraft, so it's best to land beyond it. Most cables used to be either
connected to large heavy anchor chains that create extra drag as the
aircraft pulls the cable down the runway, acting as brakes, or they were
connected to B-52 brake mechanisms housed in small shacks on either side
of the runway.
Those airports that have Precision Approach Radar (PAR) routinely
"monitor" aircraft flying the ILS. The only thing they do on the monitor
is get your landing clearance from the tower for you, give you an
"approaching glidepath, wheels should be down" advisory, and verify that
you don't go outside the PAR lateral safety limits or below the vertical
safety limits, since the glidepath and course are depicted on the
controllers radar scope. The safety limits of the PAR and ILS are the
same. You could also ask for a PAR approach from the same controller,
and they will provide course and glidepath advisories once every 5
seconds on final. Even better, ask for a "no-gyro" PAR approach, and the
controller will get you down to the 100 or 200 HAT (whichever is used
there) using "turn left, stop turn" or "turn right, stop turn"
directions. Expect the phrase "make half standard rate turns" once you
get on final.

From the AIM;
2-3-14. Aircraft Arresting Devices

a. Certain airports are equipped with a means of rapidly stopping
military aircraft on a runway. This equipment, normally referred to as
EMERGENCY ARRESTING GEAR, generally consists of pendant cables supported
over the runway surface by rubber "donuts." Although most devices are
located in the overrun areas, a few of these arresting systems have
cables stretched over the operational areas near the ends of a runway.

b. Arresting cables which cross over a runway require special markings
on the runway to identify the cable location. These markings consist of
10 feet diameter solid circles painted "identification yellow," 30 feet
on center, perpendicular to the runway centerline across the entire
runway width. Additional details are contained in AC 150/5220-9,
Aircraft Arresting Systems for Joint Civil/Military Airports.

NOTE-
Aircraft operations on the runway are not restricted by the installation
of aircraft arresting devices.

John

[David Cartwright]

"Dan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
> mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway
> Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
> type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.

One has to wonder why they didn't put it down for you (the fact that they
said it was up suggests it was retractable). As for what would have
happened - well, it would almost certainly have damaged your landing gear.

Incidentally, even if the arresting gear was down, you should always try not
to land before it (assuming there's plenty of runway the other side - which
there should be). I did part of my PPL training at RAF Coltishall, which has
arrester gear that sits in a little channel across the runway when it's
down. If you roll over the channel, you get a hell of a bump.

David C

[David Cartwright]

"JPH" > wrote in message
news:VW9Mf.172831$WH.127355@dukeread01...
> same. You could also ask for a PAR approach from the same controller, and
> they will provide course and glidepath advisories once every 5 seconds on
> final. Even better, ask for a "no-gyro" PAR approach, and the controller
> will get you down to the 100 or 200 HAT (whichever is used there) using
> "turn left, stop turn" or "turn right, stop turn" directions. Expect the
> phrase "make half standard rate turns" once you get on final.

And the phrase "Do not acknowledge further transmissions".

If you've never done a "talkdown" before, have a go when it's convenient for
you and the controller. I did one as part of my IMC rating training, and
it's immense fun. The controller who did mine (at a civilian airport, so
they don't do all that many) told me he enjoyed it too, as it had good
training value for him.

D.

[Dave S]

David Cartwright wrote:

>
> One has to wonder why they didn't put it down for you (the fact that they
> said it was up suggests it was retractable). As for what would have
> happened - well, it would almost certainly have damaged your landing gear.

The retraction mechanism could have been disabled or inoperative. When
Ellington (KEFD) was having their tower refurbished, the tower did not
have control over retractible mechanisms and relied on airport
operations personnel to manual actuate and retract the barrier as needed
(using a guy in a truck).

If a small or light plane was cleared to land just prior to or just
after military fighter type aircraft, the cable was likely to be up and
the tower would announce such to the inbound aircraft.

Dave

[John Doe]

"Dan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
> mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway I was to land
> on. Being unfamiliar with arresting gear and flying an Archer, I asked
> the controller specifically what that meant. He indicated that it
> consisted of a cable stretched across the runway about 6 inches high.
> Since it seemed that this could seriously damage an Archer, I made sure
> to land beyond it. (although it's exact position was difficult to
> determine at night.)
>
> Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
> type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.

IT IS!

You could easily find yourself without your landing gear if you land before
the cable.

>
> On another note, as I was inbound on the ILS, the tower handed me over
> to someone else for a "monitored" approach. This controller called my
> position on the ILS and advised of any deviations. There was no
> parallel ILS in progress. Is this just the way things are done at a
> military field?
>

Yes.

[John Doe]

"David Cartwright" > wrote in message
...
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
>> mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway
>> Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
>> type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.
>
> One has to wonder why they didn't put it down for you (the fact that they
> said it was up suggests it was retractable). As for what would have
> happened - well, it would almost certainly have damaged your landing gear.
>

I think this is holdover from previous arresting gear terminology. There
are still web type devices that are actually "up" and then retracted when
not needed. Most cables are "strung" across the runway. At most fields,
changing a cable configuration is a manual process that takes a couple of
guys about 20 minutes or so to accomplish. Not something they will do for a
GA arrival.

[JPH]

David Cartwright wrote:
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
>>mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway
>>Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
>>type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.
>
>
> One has to wonder why they didn't put it down for you (the fact that they
> said it was up suggests it was retractable). As for what would have
> happened - well, it would almost certainly have damaged your landing gear.
>

The cable was probably manually operated only. Normal configuration for
manual cables is to have the approach end cable removed, and the
departure end cable strung across the runway. That way, military jets
that have brake failure or abort takeoff can snag it and come to a stop.
If the wind shifts and requires a runway change, then the tower has to
direct a crew out there to change the cable configuration. They may not
have had enough time to do that before you came in, or you may have been
operating "opposite direction" in able to get the ILS approach. There's
a good article about cables at the following link, it even mentions an
incident where an MD-88 snagged a cable during takeoff roll and came to
a stop.
http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/faqs/arrestingsystems.pdf

I'm not sure the E-28 cables at Yuma are remotely retractable.

> Incidentally, even if the arresting gear was down, you should always try not
> to land before it (assuming there's plenty of runway the other side - which
> there should be). I did part of my PPL training at RAF Coltishall, which has
> arrester gear that sits in a little channel across the runway when it's
> down. If you roll over the channel, you get a hell of a bump.
>
> David C
>
>
Ahh, RAF Coltishall. I spent 2 tours over in East Anglia. One at
Ben****ers/Woodbridge, the other at Mildenhall. It's amazing how many
airfields they squeezed into such a small area.

John

[GeorgeC]

Is a PAR like the old GCA?

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:49:32 -0800, "BTIZ" > wrote:

>a monitored approach is one step short of a PAR
>BT

GeorgeC

[Al]

"John Doe" > wrote in message
news:2fjMf.42118$Dh.501@dukeread04...
>
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
>> mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway I was to land
>> on. Being unfamiliar with arresting gear and flying an Archer, I asked
>> the controller specifically what that meant. He indicated that it
>> consisted of a cable stretched across the runway about 6 inches high.
>> Since it seemed that this could seriously damage an Archer, I made sure
>> to land beyond it. (although it's exact position was difficult to
>> determine at night.)
>>
>> Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
>> type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.
>

I've done it in a C-150, at NAS Millington, TN, with a flying club
aircraft. I was unfamiliar, simulating a dead stick with an Instructor, when
we touched down before the last wire. We rolled right over it. No damage.
When I saw we were going to hit it, I held the nosegear well clear, and hit
it with the mains. We were probably still doing about 30kts, and had full
flaps, so there was some lift being generated. I am a little amazed the
cable didn't pop up and strike the tiedown ring on the tail cone which must
have been a foot off the ground or so. Of course the cable is pretty heavy,
and I doubt the 150 moved it much.
The system they used to have installed at Klamath Falls,(Kingsley
Field), had the same wire and donut scheme, but it was connected to what
looked like anchor chain on both sides of the runway. One link was
positioned right next to the prior link, so the chain was very "slack". When
you caught the wire, you pulled one link on each side for about a foot, then
picked up the next link for about a foot. Before long you were dragging many
tons of iron down the runway. I have no doubt that it would stop almost
anything.

Al

[Gus Cabre]

"JPH" > wrote in message
news:o9nMf.173258$WH.118923@dukeread01...
> Ahh, RAF Coltishall. I spent 2 tours over in East Anglia. One at
> Ben****ers/Woodbridge, the other at Mildenhall. It's amazing how many
> airfields they squeezed into such a small area.

Well, there are fewer now. Benwaters/Woodbridge closed about 6-7 yrs ago.
Coltishall ceases to be operational on April 1st and will close towards the
end of the year when our last General Aviation ac will also depart. It's all
sad ;-(

When landing at RAF Stations the question asked is "Are you familiar with
the field", referring to the RHAG (rotary hydraulic arresting gear). I just
say "negative, but have the RHAG in site".


Gus Cabre
RAF Coltishall

[Morgans]

"Gus Cabre" > wrote

> When landing at RAF Stations the question asked is "Are you familiar with
> the field", referring to the RHAG (rotary hydraulic arresting gear). I
just
> say "negative, but have the RHAG in site".

So, how about a quick description of RHAG?
--
Jim in NC

[Jim Macklin]

They had, probably still do, at the joint use airport at
Springfield, IL where I learned to fly about 40 years ago.
Runway 4/22 was used by F84F and had a cable that could be
raised by the tower that would catch the nose gear on the
F84F if it ran past a certain point. It used old Navy
anchor chain as weight.


"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Al" > wrote
|
| > The system they used to have installed at Klamath
Falls,(Kingsley
| > Field), had the same wire and donut scheme, but it was
connected to what
| > looked like anchor chain on both sides of the runway.
One link was
| > positioned right next to the prior link, so the chain
was very "slack".
| When
| > you caught the wire, you pulled one link on each side
for about a foot,
| then
| > picked up the next link for about a foot. Before long
you were dragging
| many
| > tons of iron down the runway. I have no doubt that it
would stop almost
| > anything.
| I have seen the same thing Seymore Johnson AFB, in
Goldsboro NC, and at
| another NC base that I can't remember, at this hour.
| --
| Jim in NC
|

[Big John]

David and others

Before Air Force birds had tail hooks we had a system where a cable
was raised to two/three feet in air. When bird ran into it the cable
caught on nose gear and the chain lengths attached to ends of cable
drug you to a stop.

This arresting gear was normally down and could be raised and lowered
by the tower when required.

This may have been the system in this case. It's been so long since I
retired not sure if they still use it?

The tail hook system can be used at either end of runway so you can
get two chances to use it in an emergency. Approach end and far end.

Any current jocks care to comment on to days systems besides the tail
hook system?

Oh yes, in winter the chains would freeze to ground and had to be
broken loose every day or they would jerk the tail hook off the bird.

On GCA. I made 999 to one ILS. Also made a full zero zero landing on
GCA. Great system.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:08:20 +0000 (UTC), "David Cartwright"
> wrote:

>"Dan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
>> mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway
>> Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
>> type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.
>
>One has to wonder why they didn't put it down for you (the fact that they
>said it was up suggests it was retractable). As for what would have
>happened - well, it would almost certainly have damaged your landing gear.
>
>Incidentally, even if the arresting gear was down, you should always try not
>to land before it (assuming there's plenty of runway the other side - which
>there should be). I did part of my PPL training at RAF Coltishall, which has
>arrester gear that sits in a little channel across the runway when it's
>down. If you roll over the channel, you get a hell of a bump.
>
>David C
>

[Jim Macklin]

That was the system that was installed at SPI, when the
guard flew F84Fs. When the tower cleared them to land they
always said "The barrier INDICATES UP" which covered the
tower in case the barrier was down.



"Big John" > wrote in message
...
| David and others
|
| Before Air Force birds had tail hooks we had a system
where a cable
| was raised to two/three feet in air. When bird ran into it
the cable
| caught on nose gear and the chain lengths attached to ends
of cable
| drug you to a stop.
|
| This arresting gear was normally down and could be raised
and lowered
| by the tower when required.
|
| This may have been the system in this case. It's been so
long since I
| retired not sure if they still use it?
|
| The tail hook system can be used at either end of runway
so you can
| get two chances to use it in an emergency. Approach end
and far end.
|
| Any current jocks care to comment on to days systems
besides the tail
| hook system?
|
| Oh yes, in winter the chains would freeze to ground and
had to be
| broken loose every day or they would jerk the tail hook
off the bird.
|
| On GCA. I made 999 to one ILS. Also made a full zero zero
landing on
| GCA. Great system.
|
| Big John
| `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````
|
| On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:08:20 +0000 (UTC), "David
Cartwright"
| > wrote:
|
| >"Dan" > wrote in message
|
oups.com...
| >> Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach,
the controller
| >> mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the
runway
| >> Does anyone know what would have happened if I had
landed on it? This
| >> type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.
| >
| >One has to wonder why they didn't put it down for you
(the fact that they
| >said it was up suggests it was retractable). As for what
would have
| >happened - well, it would almost certainly have damaged
your landing gear.
| >
| >Incidentally, even if the arresting gear was down, you
should always try not
| >to land before it (assuming there's plenty of runway the
other side - which
| >there should be). I did part of my PPL training at RAF
Coltishall, which has
| >arrester gear that sits in a little channel across the
runway when it's
| >down. If you roll over the channel, you get a hell of a
bump.
| >
| >David C
| >
|