Even during sentencing, this guy is an a*hole

[H.P.]

Scroll to the bottom:

http://www.courant.com/news/local/statewire/hc-09013412.apds.m0804.bc-ct--stolmar09,0,1383006.story?coll=hc-headlines-local-wire


Drunken pilot gets one year, is eligible for release



Associated Press

March 9 2006

WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. -- The unlicensed pilot who got drunk, stole an airplane,
flew it from Connecticut to New York and landed it at a closed airport was
sentenced Wednesday to a year in prison.

Because he has already served nine months, 21-year-old Philippe Patricio of
Bethel, Conn., is eligible for immediate release, but he still faces airport
security charges in Danbury, Conn.

Patricio's joyride with two friends last year won wide attention because it
seemed to demonstrate lax security at small airports despite the 2001
terrorist attacks.

He pleaded guilty in January to reckless endangerment, drunken flying and
resisting arrest. He admitted taking a single-engine Cessna from Danbury
Municipal Airport in the early hours of June 22, drunkenly flying it for
three hours and resisting arrest when he landed at the closed Westchester
County Airport.

Westchester County Executive Andrew Spano said at the time that when the
cockpit doors were opened "a significant number of beer cans" fell to the
tarmac.

Patricio, though unlicensed, said before an earlier court appearance that he
had enough training to fly the plane and never meant any harm.

Westchester County Judge Rory Bellantoni said during Wednesday's sentencing
hearing that the first thing people thought of when they heard about the
incident was terrorism.

After the remark, Patricio turned his back on the judge, who became angry,
The News-Times of Danbury reported.

"You seem to have a problem with stupidity," Bellantoni said.

The judge added, "You seem to have a bad attitude. You're angry at society
for punishing you for a crime you admit you committed."


Copyright 2006 Associated Press

[[email protected]]

>>>>"You seem to have a problem with stupidity," Bellantoni said. The judge added, "You seem to have a bad attitude. You're angry at society
for punishing you for a crime you admit you committed."<<<<

"A Daniel come to judgement!" (Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)

Gotta love a straight-talking judge. I hope he runs for office some day
:) Can you imagine showing that kind of attitude in court?
Jeeeeezzz....

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

H.P. wrote:
> Westchester County Judge Rory Bellantoni said during Wednesday's sentencing
> hearing that the first thing people thought of when they heard about the
> incident was terrorism.
>
> After the remark, Patricio turned his back on the judge, who became angry,
> The News-Times of Danbury reported.
>
> "You seem to have a problem with stupidity," Bellantoni said.
>
> The judge added, "You seem to have a bad attitude. You're angry at society
> for punishing you for a crime you admit you committed."



Oh, yeah. This lad has a bright future... no doubt. We'll be hearing about him
again.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Jay Honeck]

> Don't get me wrong; the drunken non-pilot is clearly a danger to
> himself and others, and deserves punishment, but the Judge's emotional
> behavior reveals a glimpse of the vagaries of what passes for justice
> in our nation.

Bull-roar.

You turn your back on a judge in his court room, and the book should be
thrown -- at your head.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:vxYPf.605486$084.409901@attbi_s22...
>> Don't get me wrong; the drunken non-pilot is clearly a danger to
>> himself and others, and deserves punishment, but the Judge's emotional
>> behavior reveals a glimpse of the vagaries of what passes for justice
>> in our nation.
>
> Bull-roar.
>
> You turn your back on a judge in his court room, and the book should be
> thrown -- at your head.

Did you ever see those movies about old Arabia where the man bows and backs
out of the room? Ever wonder why that was?

Why do we insist on deifying our governmental people?

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 16:16:27 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote in
<vxYPf.605486$084.409901@attbi_s22>::

>You turn your back on a judge in his court room, and the book should be
>thrown -- at your head.

Please cite the statute that grants the Judge the ability to assault
the defendant before him.

[John Doe]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> >>>Please cite the statute that grants the Judge the ability to assault
> the defendant before him<<<
>
> Except in Judge Judy's courtroom there is none, however I think Jay's
> point is that a judge should demand a certain amount of respect (if not
> just for the fact that he/she can REALLY make your life miserable if
> you give them a reason to) and this punk's alleged show of disrespect
> was met with a strong reaction from the bench. Not having seen first
> hand of course, nobody can say if it was justified but I doubt you'd
> find much sympathy for the erstwhile pilot.
>


Turning your back on a judge could be considerd "Contempt" and in many
cases could bring a bigger penalty than the original crime itself. Personaly
I'm surprised he didn't get charged with contempt as well as "reckles
endangerment", "Impared operation of a aircraft" ect. ect. those alone could
probably have gotten him atleast 10 years. He should count his blessings the
judge was lenient this round!.

I have never heard of such a case up here in Canada (well none that survived
to answer to a judge anyway) but about 10 years or so ago someone stole a
152 or a 172 out of CYCW and tried doing stunts under a freeway overpass at
night. Well he survived the initial crash only to be killed by a
Tractor-Trailer highway rig that couldn't stop in time!

Some people are just natural nominees for the Darwin Awards.

[john smith]

> >>>Please cite the statute that grants the Judge the ability to assault
> the defendant before him<<<
>
> Except in Judge Judy's courtroom there is none, however I think Jay's
> point is that a judge should demand a certain amount of respect (if not
> just for the fact that he/she can REALLY make your life miserable if
> you give them a reason to) and this punk's alleged show of disrespect
> was met with a strong reaction from the bench.

I have begun to question the respect due a judge given that judges have
become more politician-like in recent times.
They are now swayed by public opinion and private conversations,
disregarding the basic cannons of their trade.

[Larry Dighera]

On 9 Mar 2006 10:27:46 -0800, "
> wrote in
. com>::

>>>>Please cite the statute that grants the Judge the ability to assault
>the defendant before him<<<
>
>Except in Judge Judy's courtroom there is none,

Right.

>however I think Jay's
>point is that a judge should demand a certain amount of respect (if not
>just for the fact that he/she can REALLY make your life miserable if
>you give them a reason to) and this punk's alleged show of disrespect
>was met with a strong reaction from the bench.

How much respect do you have for the judges who tried O.J. and Blake?
:-)

A judge's job is meting out justice, not demanding respect. In any
event, publicly implying the defendant is stupid doesn't enhance
judicial respectability (even if it's true), and could be
characterized as verbal assault, IMO.

>Not having seen first hand of course, nobody can say if it was
>justified but I doubt you'd find much sympathy for the erstwhile pilot.

Your use of the word 'erstwhile' here implies that the defendant once
held a pilots certificate; apparently he didn't.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

john smith wrote:
> I have begun to question the respect due a judge given that judges have
> become more politician-like in recent times.
> They are now swayed by public opinion and private conversations,
> disregarding the basic cannons of their trade.


Be that as it may, it's like arguing with a cop. No good can come from it.

If you're smart, you'll show some respect whether you feel it or not, because at
least for that moment, the man has your life in his hands. You can show your
ass if you must, but be advised there's likely going to be a high price to be
paid for it. Only a stupid person tugs on Superman's cape.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:56:27 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
> wrote in
>::

>Be that as it may, it's like arguing with a cop. No good can come from it.

I know what you're getting at, but here's an example of good coming
from arguing with a cop:

From: " jls" >
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: !!Re: Joking?
Message-ID: >
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:27:28 -0400

An aggressive cop stopped me in my quiet neighborhood a few months
ago and demanded ID. I was taking a late night walk in sweat
pants to burn off a few calories. I told him I didn't have any
ID and was in my own neighborhood not bothering anybody and
unaccustomed to being accosted by an officer pulling his cruiser
over into my path, blocking me. Then did he ever become hostile
and told me to take my hands out of my pockets. I did as he said
until they became cold and back into my pockets they went. This
time he threatened me with handcuffs and jail, and then he went
off the charts when my hands went back into their pockets. "Take
them out!" he snapped.

"No, I won't," I said, as I turned my pockets inside out to show
him there was nothing in them "and if you arrest me you'd better
have a damn good reason in law for it." He began to reach for me
as if to grab my arm and I quickly stepped back, pulling away from
him. "Now you've assaulted me," I said. "I have lived here in
this town for the better part of two decades," I said firmly, "and
this is the first time in my experience I have been menaced by a
law officer."

"I am NOT 'menacing' you," he says.

He was so taken aback he went completely silent for a moment, then
said, "OK, move along then." Which I did, almost leaving in a
trot. Off he went in the other direction spinning his wheels and
screeching his tires.


It has been my experience, that if you are right and the judge or LEO
is not, you can usually prevail. However if you're wrong, there is a
good likelihood that arguing may provoke them to retribution.

But the individual so cowed by a mistaken or unjust authority figure
as to submit to intimidation (expressed or implied) in response to
mere rank or status, enables that figure to successfully perpetrate
their misguided assault.

[Skywise]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in
:

> john smith wrote:
>> I have begun to question the respect due a judge given that judges have
>> become more politician-like in recent times.
>> They are now swayed by public opinion and private conversations,
>> disregarding the basic cannons of their trade.
>
>
> Be that as it may, it's like arguing with a cop. No good can come from
> it.

I've argued with a cop more than once and won every time. And I'm
not even a lawyer. :)

I've even given chase a few times and confronted them when I saw
THEM do something wrong.

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[john smith]

In article >,
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote:

> john smith wrote:
> > I have begun to question the respect due a judge given that judges have
> > become more politician-like in recent times.
> > They are now swayed by public opinion and private conversations,
> > disregarding the basic cannons of their trade.

> Be that as it may, it's like arguing with a cop. No good can come from it.
> If you're smart, you'll show some respect whether you feel it or not, because
> at least for that moment, the man has your life in his hands. You can show your
> ass if you must, but be advised there's likely going to be a high price to be
> paid for it. Only a stupid person tugs on Superman's cape.

As my old college roomate who was a law student explained to me,
"Everyone thinks the legislature makes the laws. That's wrong, the
judges make the laws because they are the ones that interpret them."

[Jeff]

Uh huh. And it's the lack of calling people to the mat for being an ass
that gets us the generation of authority hating, personality lacking brats
that we now seem to be dealing with. Lawyers make there living arguing
against personal responsibility...doesn't make it right.

jf

[Larry Dighera]

On 9 Mar 2006 18:33:01 -0800, "
> wrote in
. com>::

>****ing off a judge is never a good career move.

If the Judge finds a rational and correct argument infuriating, it is
he who has made a bad move.

[Dave Stadt]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:56:27 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
> > wrote in
> >::
>
>>Be that as it may, it's like arguing with a cop. No good can come from
>>it.
>
> I know what you're getting at, but here's an example of good coming
> from arguing with a cop:
>
> From: " jls" >
> Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
> Subject: !!Re: Joking?
> Message-ID: >
> Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:27:28 -0400
>
> An aggressive cop stopped me in my quiet neighborhood a few months
> ago and demanded ID. I was taking a late night walk in sweat
> pants to burn off a few calories. I told him I didn't have any
> ID and was in my own neighborhood not bothering anybody and
> unaccustomed to being accosted by an officer pulling his cruiser
> over into my path, blocking me. Then did he ever become hostile
> and told me to take my hands out of my pockets. I did as he said
> until they became cold and back into my pockets they went. This
> time he threatened me with handcuffs and jail, and then he went
> off the charts when my hands went back into their pockets. "Take
> them out!" he snapped.

Once had a cop stop and ticket me and another driver for passing a stopped
school bus. It was a totally bogus citation. Went to court and won
followed by a visit to the next town board meeting, Presented the case to
the board after which mister cop was out of a job. Trouble is he probably
moved to another police department and is doing the samething.

[Dave Stadt]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Larry wrote:
>
>>>>>How much respect do you have for the judges who tried O.J. and
>>>>>Blake?<<<<
>
> Not much, but how are they relevant to this conversation? I'm not real
> familiar with the Blake trial, but the dog & pony show that was the OJ
> trial was a farce IMHO.
>
>>>>>A judge's job is meting out justice, not demanding respect. In any
> event, publicly implying the defendant is stupid doesn't enhance
> judicial respectability (even if it's true), and could be
> characterized as verbal assault, IMO. <<<<
>
> Agreed, (to an extent) but like I learned in the Army - if you can't
> respect the individual you must at least respect their rank.

Not if they haven't earned the respect to go along with the rank.

[[email protected]]

>****ing off a judge is never a good career move.

>>>>If the Judge finds a rational and correct argument infuriating, it is
he who has made a bad move.<<<<

You lost me Larry, are you suggesting the drunk airplane thief's
actions were rational and correct? That IS what this post was based
on..

[[email protected]]

>>>>Not if they haven't earned the respect to go along with the rank<<<<

Doesn't work that way in the military, Dave. Believe me, I've run into
a few a-holes that I couldn't stand in the army but maintaining
discipline in the military requires a respect for higher rank. Even if
the person wearing the rank is not worthy of it. (One of the reasons I
got out after 6 years)

[Larry Dighera]

On 10 Mar 2006 06:06:48 -0800, "
> wrote in
. com>::

>>>>>Not if they haven't earned the respect to go along with the rank<<<<
>
>Doesn't work that way in the military

Fortunately we're not living under military rule (yet).

[150flivver]

By the time sentencing comes around, the case (guilty or not guilty)
has been decided and if the judge wants to make a comment on the
defendant's conduct, that's the appropriate time to do it. If the
defendant decides to show contempt at any time in the courtroom, the
judge has the prerogative to issue sanctions against such conduct. The
thing that irks me about the courtroom shows on TV (especially Judge
Judy) is the way she appears to have made up her mind before all the
testimony has been given. The judge should remain impartial and avoid
emotional outbursts until the final verdict and then the judge can slam
the guilty party to his/her heart's content. Saying someone is stupid
for stealing an aircraft, drinking, endangering others, etc. seems like
a pretty accurate summation of the case. I'd say the guy shows a lack
of remorse and should be given the opportunity to reflect on his
conduct while picking up trash along the highway for as long as the law
allows.

[[email protected]]

>Doesn't work that way in the military

>>>>Fortunately we're not living under military rule (yet).<<<<

Roger that. The worst possible scenario would be a North Korean type of
martial society IMO. In that case, our airplane thief might not have
had a public trial and probably would have disappeared to a work camp
(or worse).

[JohnH]

> I've argued with a cop more than once and won every time. And I'm
> not even a lawyer. :)
>
> I've even given chase a few times and confronted them when I saw
> THEM do something wrong.
>

The judge will back them though...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/24/police.honking.ap/index.html

[Dave Stadt]

"JohnH" > wrote in message
...
>
>> I've argued with a cop more than once and won every time. And I'm
>> not even a lawyer. :)
>>
>> I've even given chase a few times and confronted them when I saw
>> THEM do something wrong.
>>
>
> The judge will back them though...
> http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/24/police.honking.ap/index.html


An example of one is far from conclusive evidence. A fair judge will listen
to both sides and decide based on the facts.

[Skywise]

"JohnH" > wrote in news:66-
:

>
>> I've argued with a cop more than once and won every time. And I'm
>> not even a lawyer. :)
>>
>> I've even given chase a few times and confronted them when I saw
>> THEM do something wrong.
>>
>
> The judge will back them though...
> http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/24/police.honking.ap/index.html

In this case, the officer was in line, in performance of his duty.

Here's the stories of the times I've observed officers abusing
their powers or otherwise acting inappropriately even for the
level of the situation.

You know how many streets have those painted islands, aka chicken
lanes? I had just pulled out of a driveway and was waiting in one
before merging into traffic. Suddenly in front of me from the
other direction a police car passes traffic on his side of the
road using this same chicken lane that I am currently in. He merges
back in before getting to me, but it's still quite a fright to see
a car speeding head on towards you at a high rate of speed. He
DID NOT have his lights on. So I turned around and followed him to
where he went. Turned out to be backup for another officers traffic
stop. When I saw things were OK there I approached the officers
and asked for the one that had jsut come down that particular road.
I confronted him about what he did and why I was making an issue of
it. I explained that if he had had his light bar on I wouldn't have
cared. He apologized.

In another case I saw an officer use his lights to go through a
red light. He then turned into a Dunkin Donuts. I didn't follow in
this case, but there did not appear to be any activity going on
warranting the action.

There was one time I was on my way somewhere and had a police bike
go flying past me. I was on my bike. He stopped at every red light
and waited for green. But between signals he was doing at least 70.
I took it up to that speed and he was still going faster. Mind you,
this was in a 45 zone. This went on for a good 2-3 miles and eventually
he turned off into a restaurant where he met his buddies for lunch.
There was no call, the guys wre just standing around yacking. I
did not pursue this as I was on my way elsewhere and was terribly
sick at the time. Otherwise I would have.

Another time I was on my way home from a halloween party at like 2
in the morn on my motorcycle. As I was driving through the
neighborhood I had passed a couple police cars parked at a house.
Must have been a problem. A minute later I see these two cars come
racing up behind me while I'm making a right turn. At an intersection
where I'm beginning to make a left turn, these two cars endager my
life, one by cutting inside the turn I'm in progress of making and
the other cutting around me once I'm around the turn. They DID NOT
have their lights on. I followed them at speeds of up to 80mph.
They were on an officer needs assistance call. The excuse was it was
a code whatever and they don't use their lights in that situation.
Problem is, it was 2 miles from where they endangered my life and the
location of the call. It would have been no problem if they had
simply flipped their lights on to warn of their presence. I could
have pulled over out of their way. Since they were so far from their
destination, flipping on their lights for a few seconds would have
done NOTHING to endanger ANYONE at the scene they were going to.
Instead, they chose to endager me.

This one's a little hard to describe. Imagine an intersection, but
just before that maybe a 100 feet is another intersection for a
side street. That intersection is marked "keep clear". There's also
a left turn lane for the opposing traffic to turn onto this side
street. Anyway, a cope comes up from behind me, cuts into the
opposing traffic lanes and tries to pass through this keep clear
section whereupon he has to slam on his brakes for a car entering
the turn lane. Once clear, he then proceeds up to the main intersection
to make his left turn. As it happens, the signal timing and traffic
is just right so I can enter that left turn at the main intersection
and follow. Turns out the officer had immediately turned into a
parking lot and stopped in the middle of it. I pulled up along side
and motioned for him to roll down his window. I ask, "If I had done
what you just did at that intersection back there, would I have got
a ticket?" He pauses for a split second and then says "Yes". I then
simply say "Thank you, have a nice day" and drive off. My point
was made.

Another time I was going shopping. You know how in the front of
the store is the "No Parking Fire Lane" section? Well, this sheriff
pulls up and parks. At first I think he's there for a shoplifter
or something. Nope. He walks over to the deli counter and proceeds
to order a sandwich. I walk up and excuse myself for butting in and
ask, "If I were to park in a fire zone just so I could run in the
store and get a sandwich, would I get a ticket". Again, the answer
was yes whereupn I politely thanked him and went about my shopping.
I watched out he corner of my eye as he just stooped there dumbfounded.
He was caught. Shortly thereafter he left. I don't think he got his
sandwich.

And now my favorite, which is a bit different than the rest. I was
out cruising on my bike late one night. At oen point I noticed blue
For Taurus in my blind spot. Probably just some idiot doing the
moneky see monkey do type driving. I speed up a little and they
pae me. I slow down, and they slow down. This goes on for a couple
miles. I'm approaching a left turn I intend to make, but being a
little concerned about this car thatis obviously following me, I
decide to not signal my intent until the last second. I enter the
left turn pocket as hard as I could without being wreckless and
come to a stop a the red. Sure enough, this car stops quickly and
maneuvers behind me. Great, I've got a freak following me. So I
make this turn and I take my speed up to about 50. It's a 45. I'm
thinking about my plan. I have the advantage of speed and want to
use it, but realize I'm about to come to another red light and I
don't want this guy pulling up next to me. So I wait until he's up
to my hind quarter agian in the lane next to me, take a quick look
in the mirror to make sure no one else is around, and then slam on
my brakes in with a downshift to shut down that bike right quick. Of
course, he goes flying past. Then the little red light on the dash
pops on. It's a cop. So instead of doing the u-turn I had planned,
I proceed past him and pull over. I see him get out via my mirror
whereupon,without getting off the bike, I simply turn around and
verbally lay into him something firece, french words and all. To
make the rest of this story short, his supervisor even deemed his
actions inappropriate. I wonder what would have happened had I
decided to run instead? I would have inadvertantly found myself in
a high speed chase.

I've also been pulled over late at night after a marked car did
similar stuff to me. Supposedly it appeared I had bald tires.
Funny thing was, I had brand new tires and it being so dark, how
could he tell. It was an obvious lie.

As an example of arguing my way out of a ticket, I was out cruising
on the bike and I stopped at a light where a police car already
was. I was pulled next to him. Anyway, the light turns green and
I take the bike right up to the speed limit. Motorcycles naturally
accelerate faster than a car. At least mine does. Anyway, the cop
pulls up into my left side blind spot. I need to change lanes there
for an upcoming turn, so I slow down so I can simply pull in behind
him. He slows down. So I speed back up to the speed limit. He speeds
up. Well, My turn signal was malfuncitoning so I used my hand signal
to indicate a left turn and speed up to only 5 over and make a nice
smooth lane change. Then he pops his lights on and puls me over.
He claims I was doing at least 65. I told him exactly what I said
here, that at most I was going 50 becaue he kept sitting inmy blind
spot and preventing me from making a lane change. He says my speedo
must be off. They have to get the speedo in their cruisers calibrated
every six months. I retort, "If spedometers can go out of calibration
that badly, why aren't all cars required to get their speedometers
checked regularly." AHA!! Got him. No answer. He hands me back my
stuff and let's me on my way.

And this only includes the times where I was the supposed "bad guy".
Then there's all the times where I had people trying to run me off
the road, or the drunk that hit me at a red light, or the nut job
that went road rage on me....in all those cases the police could
or would not do anything, all due to this-that-or-the-other rule or
law. All the times *I* needed help, it was not found.

OK....I think I've made my point. Enough story telling.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[Montblack]

wrote)
> Doesn't work that way in the military, Dave. Believe me, I've run into a
> few a-holes that I couldn't stand in the army but maintaining discipline
> in the military requires a respect for higher rank. Even if the person
> wearing the rank is not worthy of it. (One of the reasons I got out after
> 6 years)


A Few Good Men (1992)

Directed by Rob Reiner
Aaron Sorkin (play)
Aaron Sorkin (screenplay)

[Col. Jessep]
I'd appreciate it if he would address me as "Colonel" or "Sir"... I believe
I've earned it.

[Judge Randolph]
Counsel will refer to the witness as "Colonel" or "Sir."

[Col. Jessep]
I don't know what the hell kind of unit you're running here.

[Judge Randolph]
And you will refer to this court as "Your Honor" or "Judge"... and I'm quite
certain I've earned it. Take your seat, Colonel.


Montblack ...not a bad cast! <g>

Tom Cruise .... Lt. Daniel Kaffee
Jack Nicholson .... Col. Nathan R. Jessep
Demi Moore .... Lt. Cdr. JoAnne Galloway
Kevin Bacon .... Capt. Jack Ross
Kiefer Sutherland .... Lt. Jonathan Kendrick
Kevin Pollak .... Lt. Sam Weinberg
James Marshall .... Pfc. Louden Downey
J.T. Walsh .... Lt. Col. Matthew Andrew Markinson
Christopher Guest .... Dr. Stone
J.A. Preston .... Judge Julius Alexander Randolph
Matt Craven .... Lt. Dave Spradling
Wolfgang Bodison .... Lance Cpl. Harold W. Dawson
Xander Berkeley .... Capt. Whitaker
John M. Jackson .... Capt. West
Noah Wyle .... Cpl. Jeffrey Barnes

[Morgans]

"Skywise" > wrote
>
> OK....I think I've made my point. Enough story telling.

Man, you must either be one unlucky, hexed dude, or there is something that
you are doing to draw attention to your driving. I have never had the kind
of encounters you describe.
--
Jim in NC

[Skywise]

"Morgans" > wrote in :

>
> "Skywise" > wrote
>>
>> OK....I think I've made my point. Enough story telling.
>
> Man, you must either be one unlucky, hexed dude, or there is something that
> you are doing to draw attention to your driving. I have never had the kind
> of encounters you describe.

I dunno....perhaps it was because I wasn't driving like a madman
and therefore stood out. Now that I do, I have no problems. Go figure.

Actually, I think what it is, is that 99% of people would just shrug
their shoulders at such stuff and never think another thought about
it. I just happen to give a $&!^ about what goes on in my world
more than most (or so it seems at times). Perhaps I have an overly
developed sense of right & wrong & justice?

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[Morgans]

"Skywise" > wrote

> Actually, I think what it is, is that 99% of people would just shrug
> their shoulders at such stuff and never think another thought about
> it. I just happen to give a $&!^ about what goes on in my world
> more than most (or so it seems at times). Perhaps I have an overly
> developed sense of right & wrong & justice?

It sounds all normal {I think <g>} to me. I would likely react the same
way...

A few years ago, I had a strange encounter, that had me playing the citizen
cop.

I was on a 140 mile bike cross-country, on a 4 lane highway with cross
roads. I came upon a terrible head-on, with a lady laying out on the
ground, and a passer-by trying to help her. I stopped and asked if help was
on the way, and they said, "yes, but did I see a smashed up car going past
me, the other way?"

I said, "yes, there was a car laying out a big smoke-steam cloud," and
described the car. They said "yes, that was the one." I pulled a quick
U-turn, and went after the car. It had maybe a 2 mile head start, but I
could still smell the lingering smoke in the air.

I went weaving in and out of the traffic, at a very high rate of speed. The
smell was getting stronger, but suddenly, at a crossroads, I lost the smell.
I guessed right turn, but could not pick up the scent. I doubled back, and
turned the other way, but no luck.

There happened to be a state highway patrol station between the place of
losing the smell and the scene of the accident. I pulled in there and
reported what I had done, and where I lost the smell. I went on my way,
having done all that I could do.

At the end of the weekend, I stopped by the same station, and asked how it
had all turned out. They said, "Oh, you are the guy that tracked him down.
Yes, we found his car in the parking lot on that corner where you lost the
smell. We waited about an hour, and he came out of the store, and we
arrested him for drunk driving and hit-and-run. Thanks for your help. The
lady that got hit is doing fine, also."

It felt good, helping to fix a wrong. It was also fun, doing a high speed
pursuit, perhaps a bad idea, but I felt justified.

If I "HAD" gotten caught, would I have been arrested, and the book thrown at
me? I always have wondered. <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Dave in Columbus]

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:52:38 -0000, Skywise >
wrote:

>"JohnH" > wrote in news:66-
:
>
>>
>>> I've argued with a cop more than once and won every time. And I'm
>>> not even a lawyer. :)
>>>
>>> I've even given chase a few times and confronted them when I saw
>>> THEM do something wrong.
>>>
>>
>> The judge will back them though...
>> http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/24/police.honking.ap/index.html
>
>In this case, the officer was in line, in performance of his duty.
>
>Here's the stories of the times I've observed officers abusing
>their powers or otherwise acting inappropriately even for the
>level of the situation.
>
>You know how many streets have those painted islands, aka chicken
>lanes? I had just pulled out of a driveway and was waiting in one
>before merging into traffic. Suddenly in front of me from the
>other direction a police car passes traffic on his side of the
>road using this same chicken lane that I am currently in. He merges
>back in before getting to me, but it's still quite a fright to see
>a car speeding head on towards you at a high rate of speed. He
>DID NOT have his lights on. So I turned around and followed him to
>where he went. Turned out to be backup for another officers traffic
>stop. When I saw things were OK there I approached the officers
>and asked for the one that had jsut come down that particular road.
>I confronted him about what he did and why I was making an issue of
>it. I explained that if he had had his light bar on I wouldn't have
>cared. He apologized.
>
>In another case I saw an officer use his lights to go through a
>red light. He then turned into a Dunkin Donuts. I didn't follow in
>this case, but there did not appear to be any activity going on
>warranting the action.
>
>There was one time I was on my way somewhere and had a police bike
>go flying past me. I was on my bike. He stopped at every red light
>and waited for green. But between signals he was doing at least 70.
>I took it up to that speed and he was still going faster. Mind you,
>this was in a 45 zone. This went on for a good 2-3 miles and eventually
>he turned off into a restaurant where he met his buddies for lunch.
>There was no call, the guys wre just standing around yacking. I
>did not pursue this as I was on my way elsewhere and was terribly
>sick at the time. Otherwise I would have.
>
>Another time I was on my way home from a halloween party at like 2
>in the morn on my motorcycle. As I was driving through the
>neighborhood I had passed a couple police cars parked at a house.
>Must have been a problem. A minute later I see these two cars come
>racing up behind me while I'm making a right turn. At an intersection
>where I'm beginning to make a left turn, these two cars endager my
>life, one by cutting inside the turn I'm in progress of making and
>the other cutting around me once I'm around the turn. They DID NOT
>have their lights on. I followed them at speeds of up to 80mph.
>They were on an officer needs assistance call. The excuse was it was
>a code whatever and they don't use their lights in that situation.
>Problem is, it was 2 miles from where they endangered my life and the
>location of the call. It would have been no problem if they had
>simply flipped their lights on to warn of their presence. I could
>have pulled over out of their way. Since they were so far from their
>destination, flipping on their lights for a few seconds would have
>done NOTHING to endanger ANYONE at the scene they were going to.
>Instead, they chose to endager me.
>
>This one's a little hard to describe. Imagine an intersection, but
>just before that maybe a 100 feet is another intersection for a
>side street. That intersection is marked "keep clear". There's also
>a left turn lane for the opposing traffic to turn onto this side
>street. Anyway, a cope comes up from behind me, cuts into the
>opposing traffic lanes and tries to pass through this keep clear
>section whereupon he has to slam on his brakes for a car entering
>the turn lane. Once clear, he then proceeds up to the main intersection
>to make his left turn. As it happens, the signal timing and traffic
>is just right so I can enter that left turn at the main intersection
>and follow. Turns out the officer had immediately turned into a
>parking lot and stopped in the middle of it. I pulled up along side
>and motioned for him to roll down his window. I ask, "If I had done
>what you just did at that intersection back there, would I have got
>a ticket?" He pauses for a split second and then says "Yes". I then
>simply say "Thank you, have a nice day" and drive off. My point
>was made.
>
>Another time I was going shopping. You know how in the front of
>the store is the "No Parking Fire Lane" section? Well, this sheriff
>pulls up and parks. At first I think he's there for a shoplifter
>or something. Nope. He walks over to the deli counter and proceeds
>to order a sandwich. I walk up and excuse myself for butting in and
>ask, "If I were to park in a fire zone just so I could run in the
>store and get a sandwich, would I get a ticket". Again, the answer
>was yes whereupn I politely thanked him and went about my shopping.
>I watched out he corner of my eye as he just stooped there dumbfounded.
>He was caught. Shortly thereafter he left. I don't think he got his
>sandwich.
>
>And now my favorite, which is a bit different than the rest. I was
>out cruising on my bike late one night. At oen point I noticed blue
>For Taurus in my blind spot. Probably just some idiot doing the
>moneky see monkey do type driving. I speed up a little and they
>pae me. I slow down, and they slow down. This goes on for a couple
>miles. I'm approaching a left turn I intend to make, but being a
>little concerned about this car thatis obviously following me, I
>decide to not signal my intent until the last second. I enter the
>left turn pocket as hard as I could without being wreckless and
>come to a stop a the red. Sure enough, this car stops quickly and
>maneuvers behind me. Great, I've got a freak following me. So I
>make this turn and I take my speed up to about 50. It's a 45. I'm
>thinking about my plan. I have the advantage of speed and want to
>use it, but realize I'm about to come to another red light and I
>don't want this guy pulling up next to me. So I wait until he's up
>to my hind quarter agian in the lane next to me, take a quick look
>in the mirror to make sure no one else is around, and then slam on
>my brakes in with a downshift to shut down that bike right quick. Of
>course, he goes flying past. Then the little red light on the dash
>pops on. It's a cop. So instead of doing the u-turn I had planned,
>I proceed past him and pull over. I see him get out via my mirror
>whereupon,without getting off the bike, I simply turn around and
>verbally lay into him something firece, french words and all. To
>make the rest of this story short, his supervisor even deemed his
>actions inappropriate. I wonder what would have happened had I
>decided to run instead? I would have inadvertantly found myself in
>a high speed chase.
>
>I've also been pulled over late at night after a marked car did
>similar stuff to me. Supposedly it appeared I had bald tires.
>Funny thing was, I had brand new tires and it being so dark, how
>could he tell. It was an obvious lie.
>
>As an example of arguing my way out of a ticket, I was out cruising
>on the bike and I stopped at a light where a police car already
>was. I was pulled next to him. Anyway, the light turns green and
>I take the bike right up to the speed limit. Motorcycles naturally
>accelerate faster than a car. At least mine does. Anyway, the cop
>pulls up into my left side blind spot. I need to change lanes there
>for an upcoming turn, so I slow down so I can simply pull in behind
>him. He slows down. So I speed back up to the speed limit. He speeds
>up. Well, My turn signal was malfuncitoning so I used my hand signal
>to indicate a left turn and speed up to only 5 over and make a nice
>smooth lane change. Then he pops his lights on and puls me over.
>He claims I was doing at least 65. I told him exactly what I said
>here, that at most I was going 50 becaue he kept sitting inmy blind
>spot and preventing me from making a lane change. He says my speedo
>must be off. They have to get the speedo in their cruisers calibrated
>every six months. I retort, "If spedometers can go out of calibration
>that badly, why aren't all cars required to get their speedometers
>checked regularly." AHA!! Got him. No answer. He hands me back my
>stuff and let's me on my way.
>
>And this only includes the times where I was the supposed "bad guy".
>Then there's all the times where I had people trying to run me off
>the road, or the drunk that hit me at a red light, or the nut job
>that went road rage on me....in all those cases the police could
>or would not do anything, all due to this-that-or-the-other rule or
>law. All the times *I* needed help, it was not found.
>
>OK....I think I've made my point. Enough story telling.
>
>Brian


This one time, at band camp, I was riding late at night and.....
--

Dave in Columbus

[Montblack]

("Dave in Columbus" wrote)
[10KB of quoted text snipped ...165 lines]

> This one time, at band camp, I was riding late at night and.....


That's a very funny LINE. <g>


Montblack
Seriously, good stuff Dave. :-)

[Skywise]

"Morgans" > wrote in
:

>
> "Skywise" > wrote
>
>> Actually, I think what it is, is that 99% of people would just shrug
>> their shoulders at such stuff and never think another thought about
>> it. I just happen to give a $&!^ about what goes on in my world
>> more than most (or so it seems at times). Perhaps I have an overly
>> developed sense of right & wrong & justice?
>
> It sounds all normal {I think <g>} to me. I would likely react the same
> way...
>
> A few years ago, I had a strange encounter, that had me playing the
> citizen cop.

<Snipola of great story>

That reminds me of something I totally forgot about.

A place I lived once, I was only 3 houses down from the corner.
The main drag was very heavy, and the neighborhood had a frontage
road. Anyway, there was an accident right there and several of us
went out to investigate. Some girl in a car had hit the corner
curb. We thought she just lost control. Nope. Some guy hit her
and ran. Turns out he went into the neighborhood where there were
only two ways out - back to the accident scene, or another road.
So with the description in hand, I ran home and jumped in my car
thinking I could cut him off at the pass, at least maybe get a
license plate or the house he went to. Long story short, I never
did find the car. I suspect it went into a garage and hid. But
when I came back the accident scene, the cop there began to chew
me out, saying I was endangering lives running around the
neighborhood at 65 MPH like that and this-that-and-the-other and
that they didn't need to be hunting down two cars, etc...

Well, first of all, I was doing maybe 40 tops. The streets just
weren't long enough to get that fast and brake in time. Besides,
how could I look for the car at such high speed? And second, he
was the only responding officer. No other cops around looking for
the guy. I do not know what happened to the case, but it left me
with a very sour taste in my mouth. I felt that I was just trying
to do the right thing. I saw an opportunity and took it. Time was
of the essence and I had the advantage of knowing the neighborhood
and the suspects only way out. I knew that by the time the cops
arrived, he could be miles away. And what did I get for my
troubles? A lecture from a cop that didn't even know what the hell
was going on. I knew more of what was going on than he did.

A badge does not automatically garner respect in my book. They
are human beings, and they ARE NOT above the law, no matter what
anybody tells you. They are citizens, not gods. They have to earn
my respect just like everybody else does. A few have, but most I
find have attitudes and power tripping ego's.

Which reminds me of another story. I and fellow employees observed
a shoplifter adn when the cops arrived, they gave US the third
degree and attitude of wht WE did wrong. I was so mad I walked
away. They tried to get more from me and I refused. Later, an
investigator called the store and wanted my statement. I again
refused, relayed the story of the attitude of the cop, and that
for that reason alone I'd hope the perp got away. The other
employee, who was talked to the officer seperate from me, and I
did not witness it, later said she had a problem with that cop
too.

Geez...this is sad...I just remembered another incident.

There was an accident across the street from where I live. I
went out with my big mag light (it was night). Everyone was OK
and the police were called. Since the cars were in the street, I
used my flashlight to get cars attention and direct them around
the accident. Well, this one car was coming, and fast, and right
towards the accident. I pointed my mag right at the driver and
flashed it. They kept coming. So I get out of the way thinking
there's gonna be a big bang. It was a cop slamming on his brakes
at the last minute!!! I laid into him for that one. I told him he
should have flipped his lights on so I knew it was him. I later
called the watch commander to complain. He actually hung up on me!
Then I did something very rash, I called them back and told the
answering officer what his watch commander could go do with himself.

Yeah...maybe I am hexed...I have seen, at a guess, a bad cop to
good cop ratio of maybe 6:1. Yes, I have encountered very nice and
courteous officers, and I let them know it too. But they have been
few and far between.

Lately, when I've seen something suspicious, I really have to
force myself to call it in. I actually start wondering how they're
going to turn it all around on me. Seems the criminal has more
rights than the good citizen trying to do the right thing.

Ah geez....another one...drunk driver...tapped into me at red light.
Short story...cops MUST witness it. If they went to the guys house
and he denies it, even if he's falling down drunk...end of story.
If I pressed charges (or citizen arrested), I was told flat out I'd
be opening myself up to a "violation of civil rights" law suit. This
was an instance where the cops were VERY VERY nice. I learned a lot
about the law that night.

Ughhh...now I'm depressed...this planet sucks... :)

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[Skywise]

Dave in Columbus > wrote in
:

<Snipola>

> This one time, at band camp, I was riding late at night and.....

hahahah...good one... :)

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[JohnH]

> OK....I think I've made my point. Enough story telling.

Sometimes it works in your favor. One night quite late I ran out of gas on
a highway exit ramp. I proceed on foot and notice a police car sitting in a
field. I walk over and ask him where the nearest gas station was as I had
just run out of gas. "Hop in!" he said, and drove me to the nearest gas
station. I put a deposit on a gas can and put 5 gallons in the can and put
it in the cruiser trunk. On the way back to my van, he says "I'm on
vacation in 2 hours, I can't wait!" then proceeds to turn left at a red
light with a no left turn sign. He goes up the ramp the wrong way (no cop
lights) and drops me off. "Thanks!" I say as he speeds backwards down the
ramp. It was all rather funny.

[Jay Honeck]

> Ughhh...now I'm depressed...this planet sucks... :)

Apparently only the part of it you occupy, Brian. ;-)

In 47 years on this planet, in two states, a dozen cities, three businesses,
and a couple of dozen jobs, I've never seen a single, solitary occurrence of
police behavior like you describe.

Of course, people tend to be nicer, and bit more "real", in the Midwest. At
least outside the big cities.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Skywise]

"JohnH" > wrote in
:

>> OK....I think I've made my point. Enough story telling.
>
> Sometimes it works in your favor. One night quite late I ran out of gas
> on a highway exit ramp. I proceed on foot and notice a police car
> sitting in a field. I walk over and ask him where the nearest gas
> station was as I had just run out of gas. "Hop in!" he said, and drove
> me to the nearest gas station. I put a deposit on a gas can and put 5
> gallons in the can and put it in the cruiser trunk. On the way back to
> my van, he says "I'm on vacation in 2 hours, I can't wait!" then
> proceeds to turn left at a red light with a no left turn sign. He goes
> up the ramp the wrong way (no cop lights) and drops me off. "Thanks!" I
> say as he speeds backwards down the ramp. It was all rather funny.

HAHAHAH...that is too funny.... :)

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[Skywise]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:JCLQf.20514$oL.9462@attbi_s71:

>> Ughhh...now I'm depressed...this planet sucks... :)
>
> Apparently only the part of it you occupy, Brian. ;-)
>
> In 47 years on this planet, in two states, a dozen cities, three
> businesses, and a couple of dozen jobs, I've never seen a single,
> solitary occurrence of police behavior like you describe.
>
> Of course, people tend to be nicer, and bit more "real", in the Midwest.
> At least outside the big cities.

You may have a point...all of these incidents have occured in
north Orange County, CA...Buena Park mostly. Actually, I have
since heard from several sources that BP police have a "reputation"
even amongst other police forces as being...errr..."bad".

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:JCLQf.20514$oL.9462@attbi_s71...
>> Ughhh...now I'm depressed...this planet sucks... :)
>
> Apparently only the part of it you occupy, Brian. ;-)
>
> In 47 years on this planet, in two states, a dozen cities, three
> businesses, and a couple of dozen jobs, I've never seen a single, solitary
> occurrence of police behavior like you describe.
>
> Of course, people tend to be nicer, and bit more "real", in the Midwest.
> At least outside the big cities.

Or, "I didn't see it so it must not exist".

[Don Tuite]

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:27:09 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> wrote:

>
>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>news:JCLQf.20514$oL.9462@attbi_s71...
>>> Ughhh...now I'm depressed...this planet sucks... :)
>>
>> Apparently only the part of it you occupy, Brian. ;-)
>>
>> In 47 years on this planet, in two states, a dozen cities, three
>> businesses, and a couple of dozen jobs, I've never seen a single, solitary
>> occurrence of police behavior like you describe.
>>
>> Of course, people tend to be nicer, and bit more "real", in the Midwest.
>> At least outside the big cities.
>
>Or, "I didn't see it so it must not exist".
>
More likely that the whole state of Iowa and Orange County, CA have
the same population (ca 3M in 2004). Buena Park, in 2000, had about
80K people to Iowa City's 50K.

Cops are just thicker on the ground where Brian rides.

Don

[John Gaquin]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
>
> An example of one is far from conclusive evidence. ......

Less than 24 hours prior to this post, you cited "an example of one" in
describing an event wherein you supposedly got a town cop fired for issuing
"...a totally bogus citation...". BTW, I'm unfamiliar with that legal term
"totally bogus". Not sure exactly what is implied. :-)

[Skywise]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in
:

> BTW, I'm unfamiliar with
> that legal term "totally bogus". Not sure exactly what is implied. :-)

In this context: false, unwarranted, or otherwise illegitimate.

"No way, man. That's like totally bogus, dude." <use surfer dude accent>

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[Dave Stadt]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
>>
>> An example of one is far from conclusive evidence. ......
>
> Less than 24 hours prior to this post, you cited "an example of one" in
> describing an event wherein you supposedly got a town cop fired for
> issuing "...a totally bogus citation...". BTW, I'm unfamiliar with that
> legal term "totally bogus". Not sure exactly what is implied. :-)

My example was merely that, an example, nothing more nothing less. The post
by John H. appeared to state the judge would always back the cop. "Totally
bogus" as in he did not base the citation on fact but issued them to make
his quota, raise municipal revenue or some unknown reason. I suspect
municipal revenue was the reason as the DA attempted to get us to settle
without going to trial for some outrageous amount, As I remember his offer
was more than three times the maximum fine amount. It pays to get a copy of
the Motor Vehicle Code which is typically free from the state. It helps to
seperate bogus from real.

[John Gaquin]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message


> "Totally bogus" as in he did not base the citation on fact but issued them
> to make > his quota, raise municipal revenue or some unknown reason.

I take it then that you did *not* pass a stopped schoolbus. You never
clearly stated this, so it is unclear in just which way the citation was
"bogus".

[Jose]

> I take it then that you did *not* pass a stopped schoolbus.

I'm not the OP, but I've seen (in NYC) schoolbusses stopped, parked,
empty, and with the lights flashing down an entire block. They were not
loading, they were just sitting there, empty.

This seems to be routine.

Dunno, maybe there's a cop at the end collecting for the city, but this
is not how to garner respect for the law.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Dave Stadt]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
>
>
>> "Totally bogus" as in he did not base the citation on fact but issued
>> them to make his quota, raise municipal revenue or some unknown reason.
>
> I take it then that you did *not* pass a stopped schoolbus. You never
> clearly stated this, so it is unclear in just which way the citation was
> "bogus".

Read it again John. If you still have problems, no I did not pass a
stopped school bus. The bus was moving, did not have the red or amber
flashing lights activated and did not have the stop arm extended. Reference
IL vehicle Code 625 ILCS 5/11-1414 if you would like additional information.

[gatt]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...

> I have begun to question the respect due a judge given that judges have
> become more politician-like in recent times.

Ah. Yeah, and in the days of yore--say, before and during the civil rights
movement, in the southern states--judges were all fair and non-political
and, just like to police, they weren't corrupt.

> They are now swayed by public opinion and private conversations,

Never happened before.

-c