best bet under 10K

[[email protected]]

I've been looking around the for-sale ads for sailplanes, and it seems
to me if I am willing to spend between ten and twenty thousand bucks,
there is a lot to choose from. There are plenty of older fiberglass
sailplanes in that range, and some decently-performing metal ships like
the 1-35. But below that, in the sub-10K category, there doesn't seem
to be much at all. Is a used 1-26 still the best bet for a pilot whose
plane-budget will not stretch into five figures?

Johan Larson

[Marc Ramsey]

wrote:
> I've been looking around the for-sale ads for sailplanes, and it seems
> to me if I am willing to spend between ten and twenty thousand bucks,
> there is a lot to choose from. There are plenty of older fiberglass
> sailplanes in that range, and some decently-performing metal ships like
> the 1-35. But below that, in the sub-10K category, there doesn't seem
> to be much at all. Is a used 1-26 still the best bet for a pilot whose
> plane-budget will not stretch into five figures?

The best way to stretch your budget is to get a partner, but failing
that, you'll have a lot of fun with a 1-26, particularly if you live in
an area where there is an active 1-26 community. My favorite in that
price range would be a nice 1-23H. It is also possible to find a decent
HP-11 or even 14 in that price range, but you'll need to be comfortable
using 90 degree flaps. Not so difficult an adaptation for power pilots,
but a glider-only pilot should get advice from someone who has actually
used 90 degree flaps, and get some instruction in a flap equipped glider...

Marc

[Bob Whelan]

Bob Whelan wrote:
<snips>
> A good place to start to learn more about the possible 'finds' of older
> U.S. ship types (e.g. BG's come in various design flavors), is a copy of
> the November, 1983 or July, 1987 "Soaring" magazine Sailplane Directory
> issues.

Typo on the July issue...it should read July, 1997.

Regards,
Bob W.

[Wayne Paul]

"Marc Ramsey" > wrote in message
om...
> wrote:
> > I've been looking around the for-sale ads for sailplanes, and it seems
> > to me if I am willing to spend between ten and twenty thousand bucks,
> > there is a lot to choose from. There are plenty of older fiberglass
> > sailplanes in that range, and some decently-performing metal ships like
> > the 1-35. But below that, in the sub-10K category, there doesn't seem
> > to be much at all. Is a used 1-26 still the best bet for a pilot whose
> > plane-budget will not stretch into five figures?
>
> The best way to stretch your budget is to get a partner, but failing
> that, you'll have a lot of fun with a 1-26, particularly if you live in
> an area where there is an active 1-26 community. My favorite in that
> price range would be a nice 1-23H. It is also possible to find a decent
> HP-11 or even 14 in that price range, but you'll need to be comfortable
> using 90 degree flaps. Not so difficult an adaptation for power pilots,
> but a glider-only pilot should get advice from someone who has actually
> used 90 degree flaps, and get some instruction in a flap equipped
glider...
>
Johan,

I believe the most complete list of HPs can be found in the "Trading Post"
section of the Schreder Sailplane Designs web site
(http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder)

Wayne
HP-14 N990 "6F"

[[email protected]]

I was in this situation recently and decided on a 1-26. Figured I'd
start with a nice 1-26 and opt out of the LD arms race. The plan is
whenever the budget(and chief financial officer)allow is to get another
sailplane instead of always trying to trade up. My glider club also
has a new single seat glass ship so having access to that factored in
the decision to get a 1-26. Good luck and enjoy whatever you get.


Wayne Paul wrote:
> "Marc Ramsey" > wrote in message
> om...
> > wrote:
> > > I've been looking around the for-sale ads for sailplanes, and it seems
> > > to me if I am willing to spend between ten and twenty thousand bucks,
> > > there is a lot to choose from. There are plenty of older fiberglass
> > > sailplanes in that range, and some decently-performing metal ships like
> > > the 1-35. But below that, in the sub-10K category, there doesn't seem
> > > to be much at all. Is a used 1-26 still the best bet for a pilot whose
> > > plane-budget will not stretch into five figures?
> >
> > The best way to stretch your budget is to get a partner, but failing
> > that, you'll have a lot of fun with a 1-26, particularly if you live in
> > an area where there is an active 1-26 community. My favorite in that
> > price range would be a nice 1-23H. It is also possible to find a decent
> > HP-11 or even 14 in that price range, but you'll need to be comfortable
> > using 90 degree flaps. Not so difficult an adaptation for power pilots,
> > but a glider-only pilot should get advice from someone who has actually
> > used 90 degree flaps, and get some instruction in a flap equipped
> glider...
> >
> Johan,
>
> I believe the most complete list of HPs can be found in the "Trading Post"
> section of the Schreder Sailplane Designs web site
> (http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder)
>
> Wayne
> HP-14 N990 "6F"

[Marc Ramsey]

Marc Ramsey wrote:
> The best way to stretch your budget is to get a partner, but failing
> that, you'll have a lot of fun with a 1-26, particularly if you live in
> an area where there is an active 1-26 community. My favorite in that
> price range would be a nice 1-23H. It is also possible to find a decent
> HP-11 or even 14 in that price range, but you'll need to be comfortable
> using 90 degree flaps. Not so difficult an adaptation for power pilots,
> but a glider-only pilot should get advice from someone who has actually
> used 90 degree flaps, and get some instruction in a flap equipped glider...

As others have pointed out, the above is fixated on metal. If you have
the climate and local A&P knowledge to support a wood glider, there are
lots of options which show up on W+W periodically. I'll point out the
SZD-36 Cobra 15 in particular, first generation glass performance at a
somewhat lower price...

Marc

[Frank Whiteley]

Before rushing out, considering finding a partner and don't dismiss
importing
Visit http://www.segelflug.de/classifieds/ for some ideas. Check the
prices against US prices. Some single Astirs with trailer for about
$9000. Still a good deal after shipping.

Frank

[Shawn]

wrote:
> Bob Whelan wrote:
>
wrote:
>>
>>>But below that, in the sub-10K category, there doesn't seem
>>>to be much at all. Is a used 1-26 still the best bet for a pilot whose
>>>plane-budget will not stretch into five figures?
>>
>>Taking your question at face value (i.e. reading nothing into your
>>situation, motivation, flying background, performance druthers, etc.),
>>if patient you'll eventually find other ships than 1-26's sub-$10K.
>
>
> No need to guess. I left soaring about ten years ago because I didn't
> have the funds to match my flying expectations. I had gained my licence
> flying club ships, and I was at the point where I could stay up in good
> conditions for the 30 and 60 minute slots that were available on them.
> But it was clear that to take the next steps into soaring and early
> cross-country work, I really needed a glider of my own. Not possible on
> a student budget, so I drifted away.
>
> Things are much better now, moneywise, and I am thinking of getting
> back into the sport. I expect I could get back my old skills in a few
> months flying club ships. But then I would be back where I was before,
> needing to get a ship of my own. At the risk of whingeing, the prices
> for used modern gliders ($20-30K) aren't daunting longterm, but they
> are intimidating up front. I would be much happier paying $8K of so for
> a glider I could use for a few years, and then trade up.

I'd suggest one or two well considered partners. Double or triple your
buying power, while cutting expenses by (nearly) the same factor. It
will still sit in the trailer most of the time. Three partners works
better if one or more can fly during the week.

Shawn

[Bob Whelan]

wrote:
> Bob Whelan wrote:
>
>>Taking your question at face value (i.e. reading nothing into your
>>situation, motivation, flying background, performance druthers, etc.),
>>if patient you'll eventually find other ships than 1-26's sub-$10K.
>
>
> No need to guess. I left soaring about ten years ago because I didn't
> have the funds to match my flying expectations. I had gained my licence
> flying club ships, and I was at the point where I could stay up in good
> conditions for the 30 and 60 minute slots that were available on them.
> But it was clear that to take the next steps into soaring and early
> cross-country work, I really needed a glider of my own. Not possible on
> a student budget, so I drifted away.
>
> Things are much better now, moneywise, and I am thinking of getting
> back into the sport. I expect I could get back my old skills in a few
> months flying club ships. But then I would be back where I was before,
> needing to get a ship of my own. At the risk of whingeing, the prices
> for used modern gliders ($20-30K) aren't daunting longterm, but they
> are intimidating up front. I would be much happier paying $8K of so for
> a glider I could use for a few years, and then trade up.

Welcome back! Whether you go the partner route or on your own, to me it
seems what you've said above is reflective of some thoughtful thinking
on your part. That's a good thing, as, FWIW, my observational - and
personal - experience has been those who know what ticks their clock and
so have a realistic grasp on what it is they hope to get from the sport,
along with a sensible expectation of such important things as time
available to devote to the activity, learning curve times, realistic
outlook on risk management/tolerance, etc., tend to be the most
satisfied in their early ship choices. IMHO, ships always have more to
teach than lower-time pilots considering purchasing them can imagine.
That's not meant to be condescending, rather it reflects the almost
unimaginably vast reservoir of information awaiting individual personal
discovery in the sky. Have fun!

Regards,
Bob W.

[Jack]

wrote:

> I left soaring about ten years ago because I didn't
> have the funds to match my flying expectations.

> ...I am thinking of getting back into the sport.

> I would be much happier paying $8K of so for a
> glider I could use for a few years, and then trade up.

I was in a somewhat similar spot: early 2004, recently retired, power
flying background but new to soaring, unsatisfied with club ship
limitations, cautious with regard to investment in a new interest -- so
I bought a 1-26E. I could have found an older, even cheaper 1-26, but I
needed a D/E for pilot weight. I found a better than average example on
Wings and Wheels <http://www.wingsandwheels.com/wantads1.htm>, and
bought it as soon as I got over the butterflies. And I love it.

If you want something sleeker, and your Club operates only on weekends,
then having just one partner might avoid scheduling conflicts. If we
could fly any day of the week, a couple of extra wallets would
definitely be the way to go, and might even get me shopping again. But,
I'm not giving up the ability to fly whenever and as long as I want,
just to get 40/1 within a two day per week schedule.

From my experience with partnerships in powered aircraft I'd say, look
for a partner before your look for the ship. Like the soaring truism
that you buy your second glider for the trailer, the team is at least as
important as the choice of glider, I suspect. My guys were great, but I
was lucky.

I don't know if you'll find one of the better 1-26's in the US, with a
good trailer, radio, and instruments, under your ten-k limit, but you
might. But, whatever it takes, get a glider of your own and start
learning what it's all about. That's the best way, maybe the only way,
to really know where you want to go next.


Jack

[Bruce]

Jack wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> I left soaring about ten years ago because I didn't
>> have the funds to match my flying expectations.
>
>
>> ...I am thinking of getting back into the sport.
>
>
>> I would be much happier paying $8K of so for a
>
> > glider I could use for a few years, and then trade up.
>
> I was in a somewhat similar spot: early 2004, recently retired, power
> flying background but new to soaring, unsatisfied with club ship
> limitations, cautious with regard to investment in a new interest -- so
> I bought a 1-26E. I could have found an older, even cheaper 1-26, but I
> needed a D/E for pilot weight. I found a better than average example on
> Wings and Wheels <http://www.wingsandwheels.com/wantads1.htm>, and
> bought it as soon as I got over the butterflies. And I love it.
>
> If you want something sleeker, and your Club operates only on weekends,
> then having just one partner might avoid scheduling conflicts. If we
> could fly any day of the week, a couple of extra wallets would
> definitely be the way to go, and might even get me shopping again. But,
> I'm not giving up the ability to fly whenever and as long as I want,
> just to get 40/1 within a two day per week schedule.
>
> From my experience with partnerships in powered aircraft I'd say, look
> for a partner before your look for the ship. Like the soaring truism
> that you buy your second glider for the trailer, the team is at least as
> important as the choice of glider, I suspect. My guys were great, but I
> was lucky.
>
> I don't know if you'll find one of the better 1-26's in the US, with a
> good trailer, radio, and instruments, under your ten-k limit, but you
> might. But, whatever it takes, get a glider of your own and start
> learning what it's all about. That's the best way, maybe the only way,
> to really know where you want to go next.
>
>
> Jack
And one of the nice things about buying a not so pristine ship is that you might
have the uncontrollable urge to tinker and improve her. Then when it comes to
trading up the gap is smaller, and you have had lots of fun, and learned a lot
about instrumentation and finish, sailplane ownership etc.

Just do buy someting that can fly cross country, and go and do it.

--
Bruce Greeff
Std Cirrus #57
I'm no-T at the address above.