I Want to Fly Military Helicopters!

[Thomas Ewing]

To start off, I am 18 years old and graduating from high school. I am
very strong academically and intellectually, with scores of 1560 and 32
on my SAT and ACT, respectively. Hopefully this means that I am suited
to handle the mental tasks of being a pilot.

As cliché as it is, I have wanted to fly Army Helicopters since I was
a young child. My future is ahead of me, and I hope to fulfill my
dream of flying for the military. My primary questions are: What is
the best route to take in order to have the best chance of being
assigned to actually fly the helicopters (enlisted or officer, which
fields to work in, etc.), which branch of the military provides the
best training/most flight time, and what are the dirty, less-appealing
things about helicopter aviation that the recruiters don't tell me?

Any information is appreciated.

[601XL Builder]

Thomas Ewing wrote:
> To start off, I am 18 years old and graduating from high school. I am
> very strong academically and intellectually, with scores of 1560 and 32
> on my SAT and ACT, respectively. Hopefully this means that I am suited
> to handle the mental tasks of being a pilot.
>
> As cliché as it is, I have wanted to fly Army Helicopters since I was
> a young child. My future is ahead of me, and I hope to fulfill my
> dream of flying for the military. My primary questions are: What is
> the best route to take in order to have the best chance of being
> assigned to actually fly the helicopters (enlisted or officer, which
> fields to work in, etc.), which branch of the military provides the
> best training/most flight time, and what are the dirty, less-appealing
> things about helicopter aviation that the recruiters don't tell me?
>
> Any information is appreciated.
>


http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/


Good Luck

[Hawkdoc]

Generally the Army trains the most pilots for helicopters. They did away
along time ago with enlisted pilots the closest in recent time where the
Aerial Observers. Go to http://www.kiowapilots.com and search the forums
for flight packet. If you really want to fly then do not enlist first!
Sure, you can put in your packet once your in. However, this will take a
longer time and be more frustrating in the long run. Keep the faith in
yourself and good luck.

Scoutdoc,
Rule #3: never get into the cockpit with someone braver than yourself

[boB]

Thomas Ewing wrote:
> To start off, I am 18 years old and graduating from high school. I am
> very strong academically and intellectually, with scores of 1560 and 32
> on my SAT and ACT, respectively. Hopefully this means that I am suited
> to handle the mental tasks of being a pilot.
>
> As cliché as it is, I have wanted to fly Army Helicopters since I was
> a young child.
>
> Any information is appreciated.
>

Hi Thomas. I read through the answers to your question and they were
very good. I went high school to flight school back in 1972 through the
Warrant Officer route and have never regretted it. I retired in 1995 so
any advice I would give would surely be outdated. But first, find a
flight surgeon near you and pay to have a Class 1 flight physical to
make sure you are ok to fly. After the first class 1 physical you only
have to pass yearly class 2 flight physicals from then on.

You *may* be able to take the physical as a condition of enlistment so
you can walk away if you fail it.

Part of an enlisted Warrant Officer packet is recommendations from
people the Army places confidence in. A chaplain and your congressman
are good. I have been approached quite a few times requesting a
recommendation from me by an Enlisted Soldier who were trying to
complete all the paperwork to attend flight school. I can tell you, it's
a hard lonely road to flight school once you are already in the Army.

My advice is to complete at least a College Associate degree before
applying. You will then have to complete a 4 year degree withing 10
years or so if you want to remain in the Army. But if you just want the
training and all the hours you can get during your 4 or 6 years in the
Army don't worry about any degrees.

There are many jobs out there in the civilian world that you can get
flying helicopters but all start off at low pay but with increases if
you stay with them for years. There is a big turn-over rate in most of
the flying jobs I looked at after retiring.

But the main thing I would advise is get with a recruiter and don't sign
anything. If they can guarantee flight school right now and you plan
only to stay the few years get the recruiter to pay for the flight
physical and go from there. Just make sure it's in writing. Once in the
Army won't negotiate and the Enlisted packet take a long time and is
often not successful.

Wow!!! I just realized I've been out for 11 years. My advice is
certainly old.......

--

boB
Wing 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

[John Yasar]

Thomas Ewing wrote:

> Any information is appreciated.

I am already in the service with the same goal. You got some good
advice, let me know if you need any current info on how to become a
warrant. You can also try going officer also.

[boB]

John Yasar wrote:
> Thomas Ewing wrote:
>
>> Any information is appreciated.
>
> I am already in the service with the same goal. You got some good
> advice, let me know if you need any current info on how to become a
> warrant. You can also try going officer also.

Warrant Officer would be best. Regular Officers, as we called them, only
flew for a few years before they were assigned to non-flying positions.

I wouldn't be a source of current information since I retired in 1995
but talk to a recruiter and see what your options would be. When I
joined the Army back in 1970 I had no idea I could be a pilot. I could
kiss the recruiter for pushing me toward that goal. I flew for 25 years,
it was great.

If the recruiter tells you flight school is an option have him put it in
writing and go for it. You will never regret it.

If you do see a recruiter let us know how it turns out.

--

boB
Wing 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

[John Yasar]

boB wrote:

>
> Warrant Officer would be best. Regular Officers, as we called them, only
> flew for a few years before they were assigned to non-flying positions.

Bob you are right, I offered the option just because some people like
the glory of being a line officer, regular officer, whatever you call
them. I agree with you because for the first time in my life I have seen
a O3 quitting her duties (S3) to go warrant. Flying was a passion for
her that she went backwards in the promotion table.
>
> I wouldn't be a source of current information since I retired in 1995
> but talk to a recruiter and see what your options would be. When I
> joined the Army back in 1970 I had no idea I could be a pilot. I could
> kiss the recruiter for pushing me toward that goal. I flew for 25 years,
> it was great.

A warants job is TO FLY, FLY, FLY, yes they have some additional duties
such as fire prevention officer, safety officer, but those are side
duties not their job that it prevents them from flying actively.

What types did you fly?

>
> If the recruiter tells you flight school is an option have him put it in
> writing and go for it. You will never regret it.
>
> If you do see a recruiter let us know how it turns out.
>

So much crap those recruiters give to kids when they want to go civilian
to warrant, hard to find one recruiter that would work with you for that
specific route. I always suggest getting in the Army as enlisted and
then applying Warrant as the best route but it has its disadvantages also.

[B4RT]

Theres a better way! I know where theres an AH1 Cobra for sale for about
800K(US) . I flew it the other day at the Punta Gorda airshow, and its very
nice shape, and a damn blast to fly. The only real problem with it is its
hellfire missiles are the old wooden models and I couldn't get a single one
to leave the tubes.

Bart

"John Yasar" > wrote in message
...
> Thomas Ewing wrote:
>
>> Any information is appreciated.
>
> I am already in the service with the same goal. You got some good advice,
> let me know if you need any current info on how to become a warrant. You
> can also try going officer also.

[John Yasar]

B4RT wrote:
I couldn't get a single one
> to leave the tubes.

What hellfire missile do you have in a *TUBE*? Too bad to hear *you
tried* to get them out of their tubes, what was the intended target?
*chuckles*

[boB]

John Yasar wrote:
> boB wrote:
>
>>
>> I wouldn't be a source of current information since I retired in 1995
>> but talk to a recruiter and see what your options would be. When I
>> joined the Army back in 1970 I had no idea I could be a pilot. I could
>> kiss the recruiter for pushing me toward that goal. I flew for 25
>> years, it was great.
>
> A warants job is TO FLY, FLY, FLY, yes they have some additional duties
> such as fire prevention officer, safety officer, but those are side
> duties not their job that it prevents them from flying actively.
>
> What types did you fly?
>


UH-1B,D,H of course, transitioned into OH58A's in 1972 and I love that
aircraft. Even though I transitioned into Cobra's in 1974 I was able to
maintain currency in the scout throughout the 25 years of flying. Flew
OH58C's until 1988 then went to Stuttgart where we trained the unit in
the OH58D's and deployed to Desert Shield/Storm in Dec 1990. These
OH58D's were not Kiowa Warriors, we were unarmed. I did fly most of the
Cobra models as a maintenance test pilot/evaluator. AH-1G, Q (1st TOW
Cobra), S modified, S ECAS, and S Modernized. But the scout was always
the best. I retired in 1995 and went to the Grand Canyon and flew Bell
206's over the Canyon for a season. That's it for helicopters. Flew
some SEL's and a Sprint II Microlight and want to buy an enclosed
gyrocopter if I am able sometime in the future. The medication I take
now would not allow me to fly legally. A sport pilot legal Gyro would
be great.



>
> So much crap those recruiters give to kids when they want to go civilian
> to warrant, hard to find one recruiter that would work with you for that
> specific route. I always suggest getting in the Army as enlisted and
> then applying Warrant as the best route but it has its disadvantages also.


I discourage that because I've written many letters of recommendations
for great crew chiefs, who would make great pilots, (we already taught
them to fly) but watched all the rejections because they were in a
critical shortage MOS. Right now I believe all jobs in the military are
critical and I don't think many Warrant packets will get approved until
it gets better. That may be a long time.

But a person has an advantage as a civilian. The recruiter has a quota
and if he/she won't work with a person to get through the requirements
and guarantee flight school, I say there's another recruiter in the next
town. Don't listen to a recruiter that advises going in first and then
apply, you will be disappointed.

--

boB
Wing 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

[John Yasar]

boB wrote:

Quite flying experience Bob, ever made it to Korea? That is where I am
right now though heading back to stateside soon. The once glorious Cobra
is on display here at Humphreys now. Koreans are still flying it though.

> I discourage that because I've written many letters of recommendations
> for great crew chiefs, who would make great pilots, (we already taught
> them to fly) but watched all the rejections because they were in a
> critical shortage MOS. Right now I believe all jobs in the military are
> critical and I don't think many Warrant packets will get approved until
> it gets better. That may be a long time.

Bob, every other month about 60 to 70 enlisted soldiers are being picked
up. That is still a good number. Last board however selected a great
number of E-6s and only 2 E-3s. I will applying as an E-4 most likely
and they still pick at least 15 SPCs everyboard. I am though an aircrew
member, but just an armament guy and am sure that not in a shortage MOS,
again I have heard from our medevac guys that they are in need of crew
chiefs.

[B4RT]

Not sure where the Cobra's based, but I can track it down if you're serious.

I'll be in Lakeland for Sun-n-Fun, followed by a few days in Orlando, then
back in Key West. Let me know when you'll be near by.

Bart


> Where is this Cobra for sale? Think I'll kick the wife and kids out,
> sell the house, buy the Cobra and a camper shell for my truck and call
> it good. :)
>
> BTW Bart, I'm gonna be down in FL in a couple weeks.. Wanna take me
> flying in your helicopter? :)
>

[boB]

John Yasar wrote:
> boB wrote:
>
> Quite flying experience Bob, ever made it to Korea? That is where I am
> right now though heading back to stateside soon. The once glorious Cobra
> is on display here at Humphreys now. Koreans are still flying it though.
>

Hey John.... I feel for you over there. My first tour in Korea was in
1974, Camp Casey, 2ID flying Cobras. I know you still have those
practice alerts still, especially with the tension up north. But just
after I made PIC I was down in the Ville when the sirens sounded. Back
then we didn't stop to get in a uniform, hell, most guys brought their
beer with them. I ran straight to the airfield thinking it would be a
roll call and that's that. Instead they threw me my logbook, told me a
new Captain would be my front seat and they were arming the Cobras. I am
SOOOO lucky. A North Korean gunboat was being chased up the coast and
we were ordered to go sink it. Now how in the hell they thought we could
even see a blacked out boat but the weather was too bad, we couldn't get
over the mountains. If not for that I would be dead I think. All cocky
and bold then, I realize now there was more than ego required. :)


2nd tour in 1981 with the 4/7 CAV when we were at that prison of a
place, Camp Stanton. I don't know if it still exists but it was hell on
earth. Later they moved to Uijongbu (sp) and Camp Stanley.

Lost a wife after both tours. As it turns out, it was a good thing.


>> I discourage that because I've written many letters of recommendations
>> for great crew chiefs, who would make great pilots, (we already taught
>> them to fly) but watched all the rejections because they were in a
>> critical shortage MOS. Right now I believe all jobs in the military
>> are critical and I don't think many Warrant packets will get approved
>> until it gets better. That may be a long time.
>
> Bob, every other month about 60 to 70 enlisted soldiers are being picked
> up. That is still a good number. Last board however selected a great
> number of E-6s and only 2 E-3s. I will applying as an E-4 most likely
> and they still pick at least 15 SPCs everyboard. I am though an aircrew
> member, but just an armament guy and am sure that not in a shortage MOS,
> again I have heard from our medevac guys that they are in need of crew
> chiefs.

That is great.... maybe there were more applications for Warrant when I
was in but there were many packets disapproved, and they were good
soldiers. Take care over there.....

--

boB
Wing 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

[Mike Rotor Nowak]

John Yasar wrote:
I am though an aircrew
> member, but just an armament guy and am sure that not in a shortage MOS,
> again I have heard from our medevac guys that they are in need of crew
> chiefs.

12 birds out here, 24 crew chiefs and a supervisor, only 6 flight
medics though... you can bet your balls they're picking up everyone and
their uncle from our unit to be warrants, they need pilots more than
they need brand new 15Ts coming out of AIT.

We just got an E3 picked up out of flight ops last month, an E5 fueler
the month before, and maybe 5 or 6 guys in the last 6 months from
various positions.

When I first got in, they almost wouldn't give me enlisted aviation
because the slots were so full... ended up waiting 4 months just for a
slot. Qualified people willing to go through the BS to be a warrant,
now thats another story....

Enlisted to warrant seems to be the best path in my eyes; work hard and
you'll have every warrant and RLO in the unit writing sparkling
recommendations in a heartbeat.

-Mike

[boB]

>
> Enlisted to warrant seems to be the best path in my eyes; work hard and
> you'll have every warrant and RLO in the unit writing sparkling
> recommendations in a heartbeat.
>
> -Mike
>

If it's changed that much since I was in and more pilots are needed I
would think a recruiter would be happy to set a person up for flight
school. I don't understand how going enlisted first would be a better
road than going straight to flight school after basic training.

--

boB
Wing 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

[John Yasar]

Bob, in my opinion, not much action left here in Korea, they say they
can defend themselves now. Most of the exercises we participate, us AVIM
guys sit in tents all day and play PSP. Stanley already moved a lot of
units down to Humphreys, I spent a month in Stanley last year. Yongsan
is coming down to Humphreys also, Koreans wants Yongsan under their
control I guess. There will still be Army posts, few but large.
Humphreys is expected to expand larger than Ft. Hood.

[boB]

John Yasar wrote:
> Bob, in my opinion, not much action left here in Korea, they say they
> can defend themselves now. Most of the exercises we participate, us AVIM
> guys sit in tents all day and play PSP. Stanley already moved a lot of
> units down to Humphreys, I spent a month in Stanley last year. Yongsan
> is coming down to Humphreys also, Koreans wants Yongsan under their
> control I guess. There will still be Army posts, few but large.
> Humphreys is expected to expand larger than Ft. Hood.

Damn.... It's sure changed a lot. I wouldn't recognize it now but what
am I saying???? I don't ever want to see it again. :) It seems you
are doing OK but I know you would come home tomorrow if you could.....

Take care...... One day when I dig my pictures out I'll put the Korea
ones on a web site somewhere. It'll probably give you a big laugh...... :)

--

boB
Wing 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

[John Yasar]

boB wrote:

>
> Take care...... One day when I dig my pictures out I'll put the Korea
> ones on a web site somewhere. It'll probably give you a big
> laugh...... :)
>

Haha.... Kamsa Hamidaaaa....

[Thomas Ewing]

John Yasar wrote:
> boB wrote:
>
> >
> > Warrant Officer would be best. Regular Officers, as we called them, only
> > flew for a few years before they were assigned to non-flying positions.
>
> Bob you are right, I offered the option just because some people like
> the glory of being a line officer, regular officer, whatever you call
> them. I agree with you because for the first time in my life I have seen
> a O3 quitting her duties (S3) to go warrant. Flying was a passion for
> her that she went backwards in the promotion table.
> >
>
> A warants job is TO FLY, FLY, FLY, yes they have some additional duties
> such as fire prevention officer, safety officer, but those are side
> duties not their job that it prevents them from flying actively.
>
> > If the recruiter tells you flight school is an option have him put it in
> > writing and go for it. You will never regret it.
> >
> > If you do see a recruiter let us know how it turns out.
>
> So much crap those recruiters give to kids when they want to go civilian
> to warrant, hard to find one recruiter that would work with you for that
> specific route. I always suggest getting in the Army as enlisted and
> then applying Warrant as the best route but it has its disadvantages also.


Ok, so here's my update. I've been talking to my local recruiter and
he seems really helpful. He tells me that if this is what I want to do
that he will put all the "foot work" in to help me that's necessary
(scheduling physicals and tests, getting my application together,
etc.). It seems like he's done his homework, talking to various people
who have gone high school to warrant/pilot and seems to think there is
a pretty solid chance I will get in. I am told that I don't have to
sign anything until I am actually accepted into the program, which
seems like a major plus to me. I haven't had anything to make me
suspicious so far, and everything seems to be exactly as I would have
hoped. Maybe it seems a little too perfect. What might he not be
telling me, or is it as good as it seems??

Thanks for all your advice.

[Thomas Ewing]

And one more thing: do I need to do anything particular to get in shape
(physically or mentally) for my upcoming physicals and tests?

[Shiver]

> Thomas Ewing > wrote:

> And one more thing: do I need to do anything particular to get in shape
> (physically or mentally) for my upcoming physicals and tests?

Stop smoking, forget drugs, say goodbye to the beer cooler,
and don't have sex more than three times a day.

[boB]

Shiver wrote:
>> Thomas Ewing > wrote:
>
>> And one more thing: do I need to do anything particular to get in shape
>> (physically or mentally) for my upcoming physicals and tests?
>
> Stop smoking, forget drugs, say goodbye to the beer cooler,
> and don't have sex more than three times a day.

Heh Heh... Good advice. Actually there is not much you can do to
prepare. Either you pass a Class 1 flight physical or you don't. That's
why it's necessary to sign nothing until everything is done and you are
accepted. That Class 1 physical is the last one you take. All after
that are Class 2 physicals. I don't think it's too good to be true. The
recruiter must enlist as many as possible and he has to know the steps
to take.

This is good. I'm happy for you. Let us know how things are going......

--

boB
Wing 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

[Jim Carriere]

Thomas Ewing wrote:
> And one more thing: do I need to do anything particular to get in shape
> (physically or mentally) for my upcoming physicals and tests?

Run a lot, although that is for after the physical. When you get to
boot camp/WOCS/OCS or wherever exactly you end up, you'll run a lot
there, so best get started early :)

[Mike Rotor Nowak]

Congrads on getting a good recruiter... the #1 clencher for holding you
up is going to be your security clearance. You have to have an Interim
Secret or better before you can leave for WOCS and WOFT, and while I've
never done a clearance outside of active duty, it takes us about a week
of 8 hours a day to get one pushed through battalion level S2, a month
to get it through division, then a year or so to get it accepted --
though interim is awarded as soon as it gets through division. Ask the
recruiter how to get started on that stuff.

Get an AFAST book, the Arco is a good one
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076891700X/103-6698385-2427064?v=glance&n=283155).
The test is not hard, but the 2 things that kill a lot of people are
the complex movements (move the dot into the circle bit) and the
helicopter knowledge. Complex movements is 5 minutes for 30 questions,
so you're really at an advantage if you have a method for answering the
questions (I use the "upper right" philosophy, look at the upper half
or the right half of the arrows to tell you where to move it... once
you see a sample question it might make more sense).

The helicopter knowledge... I think I picked a lot of that up on this
group, the PPRUNE board, and surfing the internet... plus the day job.
There are all kinds of questions you can only get away with by knowing
them, like translational lift, dissemetry of lift, ground effect,
coning, lead/lag, etc. all the way down to what ISA is (29.92 inches of
mercury, 15 degrees C, no cheating on that one) and what color beacons
mark a heliport.

Make yourself sound like a confident, educated, team playing leader in
the personal questions, and think through the bit on the levers and
pulleys and force (can't remember what that section is called).

As for letters of reccomendation, get a good meet-and-greet with a w3,
w4, or w5. I'm not sure if you can use a retired warrant, as they will
usually have a bit more time and a better attitude (at least thats what
I've found).

In your resume, make sure you reinforce that you're doing this because
you "want to be an officer in the army, a leader and a member of the
team... and that (my) skills and abilities would be best used as a
pilot".

PT Test -- plan on doing something like 42 pushups, 50 something
situps, and a 2 mile run under 16 minutes. Ask your recruiter to let
you go in for every PT test they hold, and run at least 3 or 4 times a
week. You'll get better. Body fat -- get your recruiter to weigh you,
make sure you pass weight -- if not, get taped. If you push tape, work
on getting a smaller waist (good eating and running helps) and bigger
neck (crunches help). You'd be amazed at the people that fail weight
and tape -- they don't look fat at all, but because of their build, the
measuring tape says different.

And most importantly, if I can give any advice from my uneducated
hole-in-the-wall point of view, don't dance around on this stuff. Make
a decision that you want to join the hell that is the army, leave home
for 7 years or more, do multiple deployments, deal with a LOT of
bull**** and a LOT of idiots, while not making a great amount of
money... and if you say yes, then pick up a night job and do nothing
but work on your packet all day long, every day. Too many people
(especially active guys trying to do it) get wrapped up in work or
personal life, and never get around to finishing it... the WOFT program
is way, WAY too simple and easy to get into if you only spend a little
time and energy and doing it.

Good luck buddy!
Mike