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View Full Version : Flight to Las Vegas Pirep -- Part I


Jay Honeck
March 23rd 06, 03:37 AM
Our idea was simple: Spend a cheap week with the kids somewhere warm.
None of us really cared where we went -- we just wanted some sunshine and a
swimming pool.

Somewhere along the way, our good friends Jim & Tami Burns *also* came to
the realization that winter in the Upper Midwest grows tiresome by March,
and -- over pancakes and eggs on a Sunday afternoon brunch flight -- we
began to plot our joint escape from snow and ice.

A few ideas were bandied about, but Las Vegas kept coming up as a fun
option. Cheap food, abundant sunshine, and ample entertainment beckoned us
westward. The fact that none of us gambled didn't seem to matter much -- we
just wanted to see something other than snow, ice, and mud! So, Vegas
became the destination of choice -- but how to get there?

Atlas, our Cherokee 235 Pathfinder, is a fine steed and well-suited to heavy
lifting and long flights -- and we had already flown over the mountains to
Nevada before -- but in winter, over those mountains? Nope, not a good
idea.

Jim's bird, on the other hand, a beautiful '66 Piper Aztec, seemed to be the
ideal choice. Fully IFR, with a coupled autopilot and two engines, the
Aztec was the perfect magic carpet. It also helped that it had six seats!

Of course, there were eight of us, counting Jim's kids. What to do? After
a few minutes of deliberation, Jim & Tami decided that their kids were "too
young" to enjoy Las Vegas, and sentenced them to a week at Grandma's
house -- so the trip was on!

Sunday, March 12 was D-day, and Jim & Tami arrived in Iowa City from
Wisconsin shortly after sunrise. The weather -- always a factor in March --
was gorgeous, with cobalt blue skies and light winds. The prog charts
showed all sorts of weather out west, but, hey, that was hours away! If we
only made it as far as Des Moines, we wouldn't care -- we were getting away
from it all!

So, in the plane we piled, along with our carefully weighed luggage, and
were soon droning westward along the Victor Airways. The air was smooth
and the chatter over the intercom was crisp and happy -- soon, we would be
in Albuquerque, NM!

Well, it didn't quite work out that way. As we approached Missouri, the
skies darkened, and the predicted convective weather began to build. We
were studying the approaching weather on Jim's cool new computer navigator
(with XM weather overlay!), keeping clear of the worst of the storm --
something that was Buck Rogers stuff until just last year. Soon, however, we
were flying toward an immense wall of clouds which -- in our VFR world -- we
would have ducked under. In Jim's IFR world, that wall wasn't even a
factor, and we soon sailed right into that opaque, floating mist -- and into
a world of sh*t.

The turbulence began in earnest, and soon we were alternately floating and
sinking, with several negative/positive Gs at either end. Without a defined
horizon, our inner ears were free to bounce around without reference,
producing that horrible feeling that can only end in air sickness. Soon,
folks were reaching for air-sick bags, and the chatter -- so recently
amiable and happy -- ground to a halt, broken by the occasional and
unmistakable sound of retching.

Popping in and out of clouds, we could see an even darker area ahead, and
Jim asked for -- and received -- permission to deviate 30 degrees to the
south of the build-up. Off the right wing we could see swirling, tornadic
clouds and lightning, and the turbulence became even more intense. (These
storms eventually killed several people on the ground that day.) Combined
with the long-wave ups and downs, we now began to get the tail kicking from
side to side, giving the plane the flight characteristics of a sidewinder.
Looking at the PC in our lap became impossible due to the wild ride. The
retching continued...and soon even Jim was filling a sick sack!

Luckily, my usual cast-iron stomach was little-affected by this, and I was
able, as co-pilot, to monitor systems and keep an eye on Jim. Although I'm
neither IFR certified nor multi-engine rated, I was ready to fly us out of
there if Jim had become incapacitated, as it looked like he might soon be.
I've never seen anyone so sick, and still vertical -- but Jim soldiered on,
answering ATC and making minor heading changes in between spells of violent
illness. It was quite an amazing thing to see.

At last we were away from the storms -- we never got more than a sprinkle on
the windshield -- and the skies cleared ahead, but the turbulence never
abated. In fact, if anything, it grew worse -- but at least we now had a
horizon to orient ourselves with. In those headwinds we were only able to
push around 110 knots, and Hutchinson, Kansas came ever-so-slowly into view.
It was a welcome sight to see, believe me!

As we taxied up to the pumps, everyone heaved a huge sigh of relief. It
felt VERY good to be on the ground, and we all needed a break -- so we went
inside to their excellent, on-field restaurant, hoping for a LIGHT bite to
eat.

Unfortunately, it was Sunday, and the ONLY thing they offered was their
all-you-could-eat Sunday buffet -- a fantastic spread of food. Mary, Tami
and I were the only ones on board who had NOT become airsick, so we were
ready for the buffet, but Jim and our kids were far more reluctant to test
their stomachs. Still, they pecked at some food, were able to get some
sustenance to stay down, and all three admitted to feeling far better when
we were at last ready to depart.

So, back into the skies we soared -- and back into the intense turbulence.
The charts showed the jet stream howling right overhead, and our groundspeed
steadily deteriorated as we ground our way westward. 100 knots...then
80...then 70... Finally, at our lowest point, we recorded a ground speed
of just 54 knots (that's FIFTY FOUR) -- in a twin that normally goes around
160 knots!

Worse, the turbulence never let up. Soon, the sick sacks were out again (we
had bought more in HUT, thankfully), and this time even Mary -- who I've
NEVER seen motion sick before -- was miserably ralphing into the little bag.
Poor Jim soldiered bravely on, but was once again sick multiple times, while
I watched in awe and horror. At several points in the flight I was truly
worried that I'd have to figure out how to land that big sucker, but he was
like a man possessed, determined not to give in even as his
inner-ear-to-brain-to-stomach connections failed him.

Somewhere along the way, it became apparent to us that the altitude hold of
the S-Tec autopilot was "hunting" for altitude in the intense turbulence.
Even though it was probably only going up or down 50 feet, it was the long,
gut-wrenching pull-ups followed by floating negative Gs that was making the
flight nearly unbearable. Jim disengaged the altitude hold and found that,
with practice, he could dampen out the worst of the up/downs. Thus, we
continued on, slightly better off -- but still getting beat up like Woody
Allen in a prize fight with Mike Tyson....

After another hour of this agony, we realized that Albuquerque was simply
out of the question. Looking over our maps (in real life, and on Jim's
nifty computer navigator), we chose Dalhart, Texas as our stop for the
night. Mary and I had been there before on previous flights, and --
although there is absolutely nothing there in the way of entertainment -- we
were more than ready to call it a day as soon as possible.

At last Dalhart crept over the horizon, and their AWOS was reporting a 46
knot gusty wind, 20 degrees off the runway heading. Rotten, but doable --
or so we thought. In this, too, we turned out to be too optimistic.

As we approached the runway, it became apparent that the winds were far
higher than reported -- or at least they were very different aloft.
Fighting to keep the runway in alignment, Jim was slapping the controls back
and forth and jockeying the throttles up and down. Airspeed was all over,
as the gusts hit us from seemingly all sides at once. Worse, from 100 feet
up we could see big tumbleweeds blowing perpendicularly ACROSS the runway,
at a very high rate of speed. This was no 20 degree crosswind, AWOS be
damned. This was an EIGHTY degree crosswind!

Approaching the flare, I quietly suggested that we do a go-round, as the
runway was rapidly slipping out from beneath us. Jim allowed as to how this
was an excellent idea, and cobbed the throttles to the firewall. Soon we
were climbing back into that blue-but-hellish sky, all the while being
tossed around like an ultralight in a hurricane, instead of a twin engine
plane at max gross. It was just incredible.

Wrestling the plane around the pattern, fighting for a stabilized approach
in impossible conditions -- while airsick -- Jim was again like a man
possessed. Wrenching the Aztec onto final approach, he was able to keep the
runway in alignment with nearly full opposite rudder and aileron, and we
ground our way through the ferocious crosswind, just feet above the
runway...

....when a HUGE, sustained gust of wind hit us from the side! With alarming
speed, the runway was blown out from under us as Jim fought to retain
control. With superhuman effort he was able to keep us over the runway, but
actually hit the tail skid ON the runway, followed shortly by the right
main, the left main, and then the nose gear. We had made it, but we knew
right away that something was very wrong.

Instead of rolling down the runway, the plane was doing a boogaloo shimmy,
like a drunk belly dancer. Thinking that we had blown out the nose tire and
fearing a gear collapse, I suggested stopping on the runway. Jim was
already on it, and commented that it wasn't the nose gear, as he couldn't
feel anything amiss in the rudder pedals. We wobbled to a halt on the side
of the runway and held our breath as Jim shut the engines down, waiting for
the inevitable *crunch*...that never came.

Sitting in the suddenly silent cabin, the strength of the wind became even
more apparent -- and it was awesome. The whole plane was being buffeted by
the wind, as if it were a Piper Cub! I was, at first, completely unable to
open the door into the wind -- it simply wouldn't budge. It took an
unbelievable push to get out, and then I was standing in a full-force gale,
unable to wear a hat or even open my eyes! I was never so thankful to be
on the ground, but Jim was quickly under the Aztec, ascertaining the damage:
A broken bolt in the right main landing gear scissors. Without that bolt,
the wheel wobbled like a bad grocery cart caster, and the black squiggly
skid mark behind us bore testimony to the shortness of our landing roll.
We had been very, very lucky -- but I was sure our trip was over before it
had even begun.

Once again, I was wrong...

Soon the FBO manager was on the runway with us, an old gentleman who had
been in the business over 55 years. Completely nonplussed by the situation
and the wind, he calmly determined that it would be possible to insert a
temporary bolt in the scissors so that Jim could taxi up to the shop, where
they would have a look at the gear. Incredibly, we had landed at the ONLY
airport for 300 miles in any direction that was open and had a mechanic on
duty on a Sunday!

He and his mechanic shuttled us off to the FBO, and, wow, did it feel good
to get out of that wind. Jim stayed out with his plane, and helped the
mechanic insert the temporary bolt in the scissors, but was soon taxiing up
to the shop. From a distance I could see him struggling to keep the
ailerons and elevator feathered into the wind, for fear of a gust flipping
that big ol' Piper on its back.

Once in the shop, the mechanic -- a real EAA homebuilder type -- got to
work. He didn't have a Piper bushing for that bolt, but he DID have some
Cessna ones that might be made to work. Firing up his air tools, he was
soon grinding and cutting a part to fit, and we just stood in awe, thankful
for our good fortune. For all this to be happening on a Sunday afternoon,
in the heart of the Bible Belt, was just amazing to me. Heck, most places
in the Bible Belt won't even sell you GAS on a Sunday, let alone repair your
plane!

And fortune continued to smile on us. Dalhart Airport is an old B-29 base,
and is situated well away from town -- and they have no cabs. With six
people and luggage, the courtesy car was out of the question, so the FBO
owner called his wife in from home, and they shuttled all of us to a motel!
I was lucky enough to ride with this grand old woman, who regaled us with
tales of her previous 55 years worth of pilot rescues -- apparently our
experience in Dalhart was far from unique -- and it soon became apparent
that she was going to miss these unrehearsed meetings in the heart of Texas.
After five decades -- and a lost medical -- her husband was selling the FBO,
but you could tell that everything in their lives still revolved around that
wonderful airport in the middle of nowhere. Upon arrival at our
destination she refused to accept gas money, and told us that they'd be back
to fetch us in the morning.

So, it was off to our tiny-but-serviceable room. Man, I hadn't even been
flying, and I was completely wiped out! My back hurt from constantly
fighting to stay upright in my seat, and -- although I hadn't gotten sick --
my head was pounding and my stomach wasn't right. It had been a truly
awful day -- in fact, the worst flight of our lives -- but, we had made it.

Now it was time to relax and have a little fun. Jim and Tami ordered pizza
for delivery to the motel, while Mary and I went in search of beer. (We have
our priorities...) After consulting the desk staff, we set off into the
howling sand storm (it was impossible to open your eyes, even with glasses!)
to the nearest convenience store -- which turned out to be just beyond the
Pizza Hut, which was delivering the pizza to us at the motel! We found
this to be hilarious, for some reason, and ran back with our beer and snacks
like a couple of teenagers. Living through an experience like that days'
sure makes everyday life all the sweeter, for some reason.

The nice part about motion sickness is that it's gone as quickly as it hits.
Everyone chowed down on pizza, breadsticks, and beer, and we had a nice
post-flight dinner. And, other than the trains that chugged by every hour
on the hour throughout the night, we had a nice stay. (Mary and I, after
years of experience, wear ear plugs in every hotel we stay at. I only heard
the trains once, vaguely -- but poor Jim and Tami were kept up all night...)

Next morning the FBO owner was there at 7 AM sharp to pick us up, as well as
another fellow pilot who had spent two days in Dalhart after flying his
brand new Maule in from the East Coast. (He had spent the first night
sleeping in the Maule out on the ramp, after arriving in the middle of the
night.) Again, we were awed by our hosts friendly hospitality, and again
they would take no money. We finally pressed some cash into their hands,
with the admonition that they "put the money in the church plate." This,
they agreed to do -- and I have no doubt that they did it.

With some trepidation, I'm sure, Jim stepped up to pay the fuel and repair
bill. After all, they had us over a barrel, and could literally have
charged almost anything -- what, after all, could we do about it? What
would repairing a twin's landing gear on a Sunday afternoon cost at YOUR
airport?

$98 bucks. That's all it was -- $98. For everything they had done for us!
I was, once again, awed and thankful. If we had to break something on this
trip, we surely had chosen the right place to do it. With many thanks and
fond memories (despite it all), we departed Dalhart. Thankfully, overnight
the winds had diminished to normal magnitude and the ride was smooth and
sure. Best of all, the landing gear rolled straight and true, and we were
very happy to see those three green lights as we soared westward once again.

With extra sick sacks on board (just in case), we soon saw snow-covered high
country on the horizon. As we flew over the upsloping foothills, it was
evident that the previous day's weather had dumped a prodigious amount of
snow on the area. Landing in St. John's, Arizona, for gas and a potty
break, the FBO manager (who was also the fire chief) grumbled about having
to plow 15 inches of snow that had fallen in the last couple of days -- this
after it had been in the 70s last week! And I thought Iowa had crazy
weather...

Then, it was off once again into the high density altitude. With St.
John's sitting over a mile high, the Aztec rolled a bit longer than normal,
but -- even at max gross -- those two 250 hp Lycoming IO-540s effortlessly
pulled us skyward. That thick, high-lift wing may not be particularly
fast, but it sure can haul!

Soon, New Mexico -- yesterdays intended destination -- was sliding beneath
us. Santa Fe looked lovely as we droned ever Westward, and within a couple
of hours, the Grand Canyon was sliding down our starboard side, a bit too
far away for us to get a good look. Unused to such strictly controlled
airway flying, I asked Jim if we could request a diversion to the north, so
that we might see the Canyon better. Had I been flying under VFR rules, we
simply would have gone and had a look-see at the canyon, but Jim didn't
think that ATC would take kindly to that kind of request, so we busied
ourselves with trying to catch glimpses from afar...

Then, at last, Las Vegas! In seemingly the middle of no where, in possibly
the most inhospitable place on earth, huge buildings with lush, green
gardens and swimming pools all around squatted incongruously in the middle
of the desert. Ringed by mountains, Vegas looked like a mirage from above,
and Henderson Field lay stretched out before us, rolled out like a wonderful
concrete carpet that beckoned us to land.

So, we did. The week had begun!

See pictures of the trip here:

www.alexisparkinn.com/2006_flight_to_vegas.htm

Next, the flight home -- and maybe Jim can post about his experience
obtaining his multi-engine instrument instructor rating while we were in
Vegas? (He did all that while the rest of us sitting at poolside, drinking
silly drinks with umbrellas stuck in them -- poor guy! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jim Burns
March 23rd 06, 04:15 AM
Short MEI report over on rec.aviation.student.
Jim

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:2KoUf.635691$084.627435@attbi_s22...
> Next, the flight home -- and maybe Jim can post about his experience
> obtaining his multi-engine instructor rating while we were in Vegas? (He
> did all that while the rest of us sitting at poolside, drinking silly
> drinks with umbrellas stuck in them -- poor guy! :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck

Jay Honeck
March 23rd 06, 04:24 AM
> Short MEI report over on rec.aviation.student.

You wrote: "The flying was fun and adventuresome"??

A master of understatement, you are. More like "wild and crazy"!! But,
hey, we lived through it, get to use the plane again, and now have some
great hangar flying stories to share in future years.

"There we were, at 12,000 feet, retching in four-part harmony..."

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Toks Desalu
March 23rd 06, 04:49 AM
Jay-

I was looking forward to this story.

Great story! Two thumbs up! Hilarious!

Toks Desalu
PP-ASEL
Dyin' to soar!

Jim Burns
March 23rd 06, 01:44 PM
Yep. Fun and adventuresome.... I'd do it ALL again in a second (just as
soon as I recover) :)
Jim

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:lqpUf.878526$xm3.7584@attbi_s21...
> > Short MEI report over on rec.aviation.student.
>
> You wrote: "The flying was fun and adventuresome"??
>
> A master of understatement, you are. More like "wild and crazy"!! But,
> hey, we lived through it, get to use the plane again, and now have some
> great hangar flying stories to share in future years.
>
> "There we were, at 12,000 feet, retching in four-part harmony..."
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

Ron Lee
March 23rd 06, 02:24 PM
Don't take this personally but it has the sound of a narrative that
could have ended in multiple fatalities.

Ron Lee

Jose
March 23rd 06, 03:16 PM
> Don't take this personally but it has the sound of a narrative that
> could have ended in multiple fatalities.

I'm glad you said that. I was t hinking the same thing... "get
there-itis plus macho". Perhaps the narrative was painted a little more
colorfully than the actual flight was so I reserve judgment. However,
it does seem that there was a large withdrawal of luck at some bank
somewhere.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jay Honeck
March 23rd 06, 03:19 PM
> Don't take this personally but it has the sound of a narrative that
> could have ended in multiple fatalities.

I suppose -- but you can say that about every flight.

It was a rough flight, to be sure, and we broke a part in the landing gear
on touchdown, true enough. But if we had been in a fixed-gear aircraft
like Atlas, nothing would have broken -- and, quite frankly, that bolt is
designed (like a "shear pin" in a snow blower) to be the first thing to
break. By breaking first it prevents other, more expensive, parts from
breaking.

Of course, we didn't know that at the time -- thus, the narrative.

The air sickness was unnerving, and awful for those afflicted, but Jim was
an iron man throughout. The only other time I've seen anyone tough out
motion sickness like that was on a Lake Michigan charter fishing trip. It
was very rough, everyone was sick (except, again, for me), and this guy --
an old Huey door gunner from Viet Nam -- was no different. He upchucked
over the side, reached for a beer, cracked it and smiled, saying
"Ahhh...it's Miller time!" He then proceeded to chug that beer.

I almost lost it right then and there, just watching him.

Jim truly won the "Iron Man" award for this flight. Through it all he
never skipped a beat, never missed a radio call -- and got us down safely in
a friggin' "inland hurricane". His professionalism and skill in the face
of truly awful conditions got us through a bad situation safely, and Mary
and I would fly that trip -- with our kids -- with him again tomorrow.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Mike Schumann
March 23rd 06, 03:36 PM
I would think that when you are flying IFR and you are worried that the IFR
rated pilot is about to be incapacitated and the co-pilot is VFR only, it's
time to call it a day. Breaking the landing gear is just confirmation that
this flight should have been cancelled earlier.

Mike Schumann

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:k0zUf.636324$084.461970@attbi_s22...
>> Don't take this personally but it has the sound of a narrative that
>> could have ended in multiple fatalities.
>
> I suppose -- but you can say that about every flight.
>
> It was a rough flight, to be sure, and we broke a part in the landing gear
> on touchdown, true enough. But if we had been in a fixed-gear aircraft
> like Atlas, nothing would have broken -- and, quite frankly, that bolt is
> designed (like a "shear pin" in a snow blower) to be the first thing to
> break. By breaking first it prevents other, more expensive, parts from
> breaking.
>
> Of course, we didn't know that at the time -- thus, the narrative.
>
> The air sickness was unnerving, and awful for those afflicted, but Jim was
> an iron man throughout. The only other time I've seen anyone tough out
> motion sickness like that was on a Lake Michigan charter fishing trip. It
> was very rough, everyone was sick (except, again, for me), and this guy --
> an old Huey door gunner from Viet Nam -- was no different. He upchucked
> over the side, reached for a beer, cracked it and smiled, saying
> "Ahhh...it's Miller time!" He then proceeded to chug that beer.
>
> I almost lost it right then and there, just watching him.
>
> Jim truly won the "Iron Man" award for this flight. Through it all he
> never skipped a beat, never missed a radio call -- and got us down safely
> in a friggin' "inland hurricane". His professionalism and skill in the
> face of truly awful conditions got us through a bad situation safely, and
> Mary and I would fly that trip -- with our kids -- with him again
> tomorrow.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

Jay Honeck
March 23rd 06, 04:06 PM
>I would think that when you are flying IFR and you are worried that the IFR
>rated pilot is about to be incapacitated and the co-pilot is VFR only, it's
>time to call it a day. Breaking the landing gear is just confirmation that
>this flight should have been cancelled earlier.

After Hutchinson, we were flying IFR in VFR conditions. We had a $20K,
altitude holding, S-tec autopilot, and, as a 1000+ hour pilot, I've been
very close to taking my instrument check-ride. I'm confident that, had the
pilot keeled over, I would have been able to land the Aztec. I was keeping a
close eye on conditions -- as should any co-pilot -- but that turned out to
be unnecessary -- Jim never skipped a beat.

There was no bad judgment here, and to imply otherwise is a misreading of
the situation. Had Jim felt like he was in any danger of becoming
incapacitated, we would not have departed Hutchinson. There were three
pilots on that airplane, and we all got back in that plane at Hutchinson
without a second thought. If any of us had felt threatened or endangered,
we would have spoken up.

Should we have spent the night in HUT? With 20/20 hindsight, sure -- but
for comfort reasons, not aviation safety reasons. Conditions were severe
clear VFR, and we knew we could stop at any of half a dozen airports along
the way -- but none of us knew that the turbulence would be unrelenting.
The fact that the wind came up higher than predicted was just bad luck, and
Jim's skill salvaged what might have been a far worse situation.

We would do that flight again today, under the identical conditions. Mary
and I have analyzed the flight from every angle, and at every step of the
way Jim's flight planning and decision-making process was sound. At no
point was there an obvious "no-go" condition that we missed, nor was there
any pressure to actually get anywhere in particular that day -- a fact I
think I made clear. "Get-there-itis" was NOT a factor at all.

It was just an exciting flight, which is something that occasionally happens
if you actually use GA aircraft for long cross-country flights.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jose
March 23rd 06, 04:21 PM
> It was just an exciting flight, which is something that occasionally happens
> if you actually use GA aircraft for long cross-country flights.

I'm not judging; I wasn't there and wouldn't presume.

However, some time ago you posted about some "idiot" who landed at your
airport in a snowstorm after what must have also been an exciting
flight. There was no end to the reaming he got here. He himself however
thought he did fine, and demonstrated superior skill.

Suppose that somebody =else= (who's stomach and ability were unproven to
you) were making this flight, and posting as he went. You read leg one,
leg two, leg three, and then you read about it in the newspapers. I
don't think he would get much of a defense here.

You are right, if you fly enough you =are= going to have exiting
flights. Maybe that's all this was. But the writeup suggests it could
have been much more.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

john smith
March 23rd 06, 04:42 PM
In article <qIzUf.879212$xm3.440468@attbi_s21>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> We would do that flight again today, under the identical conditions. Mary
> and I have analyzed the flight from every angle, and at every step of the
> way Jim's flight planning and decision-making process was sound. At no
> point was there an obvious "no-go" condition that we missed, nor was there
> any pressure to actually get anywhere in particular that day -- a fact I
> think I made clear. "Get-there-itis" was NOT a factor at all.

Not having looked at the winds aloft for your trip, I would be courious
to know what altitude was selected and why? Was an altitude change
condsidered to find smoother air?

Skylune
March 23rd 06, 04:49 PM
Shoot, Jay. I sold my boat, and was re-re-re-visiting the idea of hopping
back into the C-150 trainer. Then I read your story. :-)

(Great story though. You guys obviously really, really, really must love
flying to want to endure this. I guess that's what people think about me
when we go out skiing in wind chills of -30F, though. Glad it turned out
well.)

john smith
March 23rd 06, 04:56 PM
In article >,
Jose > wrote:

> You are right, if you fly enough you =are= going to have exiting
> flights.

"LET ME OUT!!! LET ME OUT!!! :-))

Jim Burns
March 23rd 06, 05:50 PM
Absolutely.
The turbulence, properly defined as "light", (never full defection of the
controls, altitude excursions of 200 ft or less), was caused by a sinking
jetstream causing high winds over the surface while flying towards rising
terrain. Headed west from Hutchinson, KS, we climbed from 8,000 to 10,000
searching for a better ride. 10,000 was the best altitude according to the
winds aloft forecast and we even tried 12,000 with no better results. Lower
alts that were still above the MEA were available, however surface winds
were kicking up significant dust storms below that I really didn't want to
fly through. Our impression was that turbulence would have been worse lower.
The guys up above were making non stop radio calls to Center in planes of
every description looking for a smoother altitude, no one ever found a
smooth ride.

The decision making process at Hutchinson was deceptively easy. Everybody
felt better, it was VFR, surface winds were lighter than forecast. Get
there itis wasn't a factor, because we had no where to get to. We didn't
have reservations in Las Vegas until the following night, we could have
easily stayed in Hutchinson if we'd had known what was ahead. Current
METARs led us to believe that the surface winds along our route may also
continue to be lighter than forecast, but they were not, they were higher
than forecast as we learned as we approached Liberal, KS where a regional
jet was shooting an ILS35 circle to land 21 due to blowing dust into a 45G51
knot wind. We began looking for a more suitable airport with runways more
aligned with the wind and hopefully lower surface winds than Liberal was
experiencing. Best port in the storm turned out to be Dalhart, TX. Beyond
Dalhart is Tucumcari (sp?) and not much else. I was not going to push our
fuel constraints passed Dalhart. We had an alternative route planned that
would take us further south towards Tucson and thus avoid some of the high
winds, however that route required a fuel stop in Liberal, KS, Dalhart, TX,
or Borger, TX. All airports have 17/35 & 3/21. Dalhart turned out to be
the best combination of lowest wind and runway length. Winds were said to
be 230@38G46, but in actuality they were more like from 260.

Without a doubt we could have stayed in Hutchinson, KS. With everyone
feeling better, the conditions at Hutchinson being better than forecast, and
the forecast showing acceptable VFR conditions, we chose to continue.

Jim

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article <qIzUf.879212$xm3.440468@attbi_s21>,
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
> > We would do that flight again today, under the identical conditions.
Mary
> > and I have analyzed the flight from every angle, and at every step of
the
> > way Jim's flight planning and decision-making process was sound. At no
> > point was there an obvious "no-go" condition that we missed, nor was
there
> > any pressure to actually get anywhere in particular that day -- a fact I
> > think I made clear. "Get-there-itis" was NOT a factor at all.
>
> Not having looked at the winds aloft for your trip, I would be courious
> to know what altitude was selected and why? Was an altitude change
> condsidered to find smoother air?

John T
March 23rd 06, 06:06 PM
Thats a nice looking FBO at Dalhart.

Too bad about the Grand Canyon...I've had better views of it from the
air flying commercial! >:)

John

March 23rd 06, 07:11 PM
........I suppose -- but you can say that about every flight.....

No. You can't.

If you bothered enough to get a briefing before you left it's amazing that you lacked the judgement to scrap the flight. To subject your passengers to that abuse and then brag about it is what worries me. You're an accident just waiting to happen.

Karl
ATP CFI ETC

john smith
March 23rd 06, 08:54 PM
Cumulomammatus cloud.
Indicates potential hail activity resulting from vertical up/down-drafts.
Sometimes greenish-gray in appearance.

Jay Honeck
March 23rd 06, 09:01 PM
> Cumulomammatus cloud.
> Indicates potential hail activity resulting from vertical up/down-drafts.
> Sometimes greenish-gray in appearance.

Are you referring to this picture:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?V36B648DC

??
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck
March 23rd 06, 09:05 PM
> Thats a nice looking FBO at Dalhart.

The owner used to keep his pristine V-tailed Bonanza inside the living room
area, on a specially tiled circular presentation area. That's the way it
was when we flew into Dalhart a few years ago.

Since then the old fella has lost his medical, and sold his beautiful bird.

:-(

> Too bad about the Grand Canyon...I've had better views of it from the air
> flying commercial! >:)

Ah, well, Mary, the kids and I spent two hours flying over the canyon, up
and down the VFR corridors, back in '04. Nothing could compare to that...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck
March 23rd 06, 09:36 PM
> However, some time ago you posted about some "idiot" who landed at your
> airport in a snowstorm after what must have also been an exciting flight.
> There was no end to the reaming he got here. He himself however thought he
> did fine, and demonstrated superior skill.

We don't know if he, himself, thought he did fine. I think it's more likely
that he considers himself lucky to have survived. A snowstorm is not
comparable to a windy day in any way -- but I get your drift. (No pun
intended... :-)

This angle points up several problems inherent with writing about our flying
adventures in this forum:

1. Interesting writing is, by definition, creative. Within the limits of
the facts, one must build tension -- and release it -- in order to maintain
interest. Otherwise, it's a travelogue, and we all know how interesting
those are.

On this flight there was no need for embellishment or exaggeration -- it was
exciting enough! -- but some people apparently read more into my words than
are actually there. Within the confines of truth, I endeavor to make my
writing as interesting as possible, which some people may read as hyperbole
or bluster. In this case, anyway, it wasn't.

2. Writing about transcontinental flying in Spam Cans opens one up to
criticism and back-seat flying of all kinds, simply because so few people
actually do it. Most of the pilots on our field -- and, probably, here --
never fly beyond the confines of their $100 hamburger flights, ever, and
probably regard attempting a flight of this magnitude as foolhardy.

3. My threshold for danger may be different than yours. Some folks might
regard what we did as foolhardy -- but many people regard flying Spam Cans
at all as insane. At no point on this trip did I feel threatened, out of
control, or in danger -- but I will allow that this fact may be a product of
our many cross-country (not cross-state) flights over the years. In other
words, I've flown in worse conditions than this flight, and may therefore be
more immune to a sense of danger than others.

4. It's impossible to include every shred of information about the
decision-making process that goes into a flight of this length in a
descriptive narrative. By necessity, some details simply must be left out,
and in any story I always concentrate on action, not deliberation. This may
make parts of the flight look more like a "hip shot" than they really were.
As Jim outlined in his excellent post, his flight planning was detailed,
extensive and cautious -- but conditions simply weren't as predicted.

So, long story short, I understand what you're saying, but -- in this case,
anyway -- I feel that it doesn't apply.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Montblack
March 23rd 06, 11:17 PM
("Jay Honeck" wrote)
> 1. Interesting writing is, by definition, creative. Within the limits of
> the facts, one must build tension -- and release it -- in order to
> maintain interest. Otherwise, it's a travelogue, and we all know how
> interesting those are.


From the OP:
"A few ideas were bandied about, but Las Vegas kept coming up as a fun
option. Cheap food, abundant sunshine, and ample entertainment beckoned us
westward. The fact that none of us gambled didn't seem to matter much -- we
just wanted to see something other than snow, ice, and mud! So, Vegas
became the destination of choice -- but how to get there?"


"...and ample entertainment beckoned us westward."

That slays me! :-)


Montblackjack

Mike Schumann
March 23rd 06, 11:32 PM
So after your 1st go around, why didn't you divert to an airport with less
severe crosswinds?

Mike Schumann

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:qIzUf.879212$xm3.440468@attbi_s21...
> >I would think that when you are flying IFR and you are worried that the
> >IFR rated pilot is about to be incapacitated and the co-pilot is VFR
> >only, it's time to call it a day. Breaking the landing gear is just
> >confirmation that this flight should have been cancelled earlier.
>
> After Hutchinson, we were flying IFR in VFR conditions. We had a $20K,
> altitude holding, S-tec autopilot, and, as a 1000+ hour pilot, I've been
> very close to taking my instrument check-ride. I'm confident that, had
> the pilot keeled over, I would have been able to land the Aztec. I was
> keeping a close eye on conditions -- as should any co-pilot -- but that
> turned out to be unnecessary -- Jim never skipped a beat.
>
> There was no bad judgment here, and to imply otherwise is a misreading of
> the situation. Had Jim felt like he was in any danger of becoming
> incapacitated, we would not have departed Hutchinson. There were three
> pilots on that airplane, and we all got back in that plane at Hutchinson
> without a second thought. If any of us had felt threatened or endangered,
> we would have spoken up.
>
> Should we have spent the night in HUT? With 20/20 hindsight, sure -- but
> for comfort reasons, not aviation safety reasons. Conditions were severe
> clear VFR, and we knew we could stop at any of half a dozen airports along
> the way -- but none of us knew that the turbulence would be unrelenting.
> The fact that the wind came up higher than predicted was just bad luck,
> and Jim's skill salvaged what might have been a far worse situation.
>
> We would do that flight again today, under the identical conditions. Mary
> and I have analyzed the flight from every angle, and at every step of the
> way Jim's flight planning and decision-making process was sound. At no
> point was there an obvious "no-go" condition that we missed, nor was there
> any pressure to actually get anywhere in particular that day -- a fact I
> think I made clear. "Get-there-itis" was NOT a factor at all.
>
> It was just an exciting flight, which is something that occasionally
> happens if you actually use GA aircraft for long cross-country flights.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

john smith
March 23rd 06, 11:48 PM
> > Cumulomammatus cloud.
> > Indicates potential hail activity resulting from vertical up/down-drafts.
> > Sometimes greenish-gray in appearance.

> Are you referring to this picture:
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?V36B648DC
> ??

That's the one!

Ken Reed
March 24th 06, 02:05 AM
> Then, it was off once again into the high density altitude. With St.
> John's sitting over a mile high, the Aztec rolled a bit longer than normal,
> but -- even at max gross -- those two 250 hp Lycoming IO-540s effortlessly
> pulled us skyward.

> Soon, New Mexico -- yesterdays intended destination -- was sliding beneath
> us. Santa Fe looked lovely as we droned ever Westward,

Going east to west, New Mexico generally comes before Arizona ;-)
---
Ken Reed
N9124X

JJS
March 24th 06, 03:09 AM
"Jim Burns" > wrote in message ...

snip
as we approached Liberal, KS where a regional
> jet was shooting an ILS35 circle to land 21 due to blowing dust into a 45G51
> knot wind. We began looking for a more suitable airport with runways more
> aligned with the wind and hopefully lower surface winds than Liberal was
> experiencing. Best port in the storm turned out to be Dalhart, TX. Beyond
> Dalhart is Tucumcari (sp?) and not much else. I was not going to push our
> fuel constraints passed Dalhart. We had an alternative route planned that
> would take us further south towards Tucson and thus avoid some of the high
> winds, however that route required a fuel stop in Liberal, KS, Dalhart, TX,
> or Borger, TX. All airports have 17/35 & 3/21. Dalhart turned out to be
> the best combination of lowest wind and runway length. Winds were said to
> be 230@38G46, but in actuality they were more like from 260.
>
> Without a doubt we could have stayed in Hutchinson, KS. With everyone
> feeling better, the conditions at Hutchinson being better than forecast, and
> the forecast showing acceptable VFR conditions, we chose to continue.
>
> Jim

Jim,

What day did you and Jay come through here? You flew within 90 miles of my home base, KWWR if you were at
Liberal. I think I was in Houston visiting relatives but if you'd have let me know I would have made sure you guys
were taken care of and had a place to stay if you'd have diverted here. WWR has a 5/23 runway which would have been
better for winds out of 260 & 17/35 is 100 ft wide.

Listen you guys, this ain't a butt chewing but I want you to know that the conditions you experienced are not at
all uncommon in this area. The area around Gage VOR has a reputation as the beginning of tornado alley. Look at
this: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/storms/19470409/

Some really huge thunderstorms will begin rolling through here within the next few weeks if the drought breaks.
The distinction with our winds is often not necessarily their strength but also "the intense sharpness and high
frequency of the gusts". I've seen gust fronts with straight line winds that exceeded 100 mph and they moved cars in
the parking lots. When we say winds are 30 gusting to 45 we mean they can change that much in just a second or two
and then be right back where they were. And they can keep it up for hours or days on end. Just please be careful in
this neck of the woods! The cloud pictures you guys posted on Jay's site look all too familiar.

Engage flame suit mode.

As an aside, and hopefully so others will be a little more careful than myself... about a month ago the wife and
I were on a return flight from visiting our daughter at college. There was an oil drilling rig on fire due to a well
blowout about 30 miles north of the airport. We flew up there, avoided a TFR, and took a look. It was after dark
and so it made for a spectacular sight. Shades of Red Adair and all! When I turned for home, the turbulence was
quickly increasing and I had to hold a very high angle crab to maintain runway heading for a long straight in
approach. The AWOS was spewing reports similar to those you encountered at Dalhart. I chose runway 17 due to its
width. The wind was from 200. The ailerons were nearly going stop to stop and I reached over, snugged up the wife's
seat belt, explained the situation and told her to expect a go around. The darkness made for a real challenge
gauging wind drift and flare height while battling for control. The landing light beam was swinging wildly from
clear past the right runway edge one second to off the other side the next. I had just started feeding throttle in
for the go around when the gusts died down to about 30 knots and I was able to touch down with the rudder to the
stops and chop the throttle. I intentionally was trying for the upwind edge of the runway and my plan worked. We
touched down semi straight and nearly on the centerline. In my haste to get the nose wheel planted and get firm
control before the rudder lost effectiveness, I let the nose wheel down early. The plan suddenly wasn't quite as
brilliant. With the nose wheel cocked with the rudder a la' Cherokee, we veered back and forth several times before
I had her tracking straight down the runway. It was the most challenging landing I've ever made in my short 870
hours of piloting. I am still wondering if I did the right thing. I'm not sure if I should be proud of my piloting
skills or ashamed of even trying, it was that close... and I fly here in these winds all the time. The airplane
suffered no damage but I know I was pushing both its and my own capabilities and my wife was a passenger.

p.s. Within a few days of your passing through, about 700,000 acres of the Texas panhandle went up in flames
near your route due to those winds and tinderbox drought conditions. Firefighters from my hometown were among many
on the scene.

Joe Schneider
N8437R



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john smith
March 24th 06, 03:56 AM
Joe, thanks for posting.
Local information such as yours is something we have all lost with the
FSS consolidations over the years.

Jay Honeck
March 24th 06, 04:54 AM
> I am still wondering if I did the right thing. I'm not sure if I should be proud of my piloting
> skills or ashamed of even trying, it was that close... and I fly here in these winds all the time. The airplane
> suffered no damage but I know I was pushing both its and my own capabilities and my wife was a passenger.

Great post, Joe. I suffered a landing like that -- in daylight,
thankfully -- in Rockford, IL ten years ago. Mary STILL gives me crap
about it! :-)

> p.s. Within a few days of your passing through, about 700,000 acres of the Texas panhandle went up in flames
> near your route due to those winds and tinderbox drought conditions. Firefighters from my hometown were among many
> on the scene.

Actually, those fires were already ablaze as we flew over, and
dust/sand storms were making the whole state look more like Iraq than
the US.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck
March 24th 06, 05:01 AM
> > Soon, New Mexico -- yesterdays intended destination -- was sliding beneath
> > us. Santa Fe looked lovely as we droned ever Westward,
>
> Going east to west, New Mexico generally comes before Arizona ;-)

Crap, Ken, I proof-read that thing five times, and never caught that
error!

And I'm the one that's always bitchin' about the lack of geography in
the schools today, too...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jose
March 24th 06, 05:13 AM
> [...] 4. It's impossible to include every shred of information about the
> decision-making process that goes into a flight of this length in a
> descriptive narrative. By necessity, some details simply must be left out,
> and in any story I always concentrate on action, not deliberation. This may
> make parts of the flight look more like a "hip shot" than they really were.
> As Jim outlined in his excellent post, his flight planning was detailed,
> extensive and cautious -- but conditions simply weren't as predicted.
>
> So, long story short, I understand what you're saying, but -- in this case,
> anyway -- I feel that it doesn't apply.

Fair enough. As I said, I was not judging, but my eyebrows did arch a
bit. :)

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Don Tuite
March 24th 06, 06:02 AM
On 23 Mar 2006 21:01:28 -0800, "Jay Honeck" >
wrote:

>> > Soon, New Mexico -- yesterdays intended destination -- was sliding beneath
>> > us. Santa Fe looked lovely as we droned ever Westward,
>>
>> Going east to west, New Mexico generally comes before Arizona ;-)
>
>Crap, Ken, I proof-read that thing five times, and never caught that
>error!
>
>And I'm the one that's always bitchin' about the lack of geography in
>the schools today, too...
>
It was easier when the rest of the world was all pink.

Don

Ron Lee
March 24th 06, 05:11 PM
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

My initial comment:

>> Don't take this personally but it has the sound of a narrative that
>> could have ended in multiple fatalities.
>
>I suppose -- but you can say that about every flight.

>Jim truly won the "Iron Man" award for this flight. Through it all he
>never skipped a beat, never missed a radio call -- and got us down safely in
>a friggin' "inland hurricane". His professionalism and skill in the face
>of truly awful conditions got us through a bad situation safely, and Mary
>and I would fly that trip -- with our kids -- with him again tomorrow.
>--
>Jay Honeck

Jay, I will add that it was not my intent to flame you. All I could
do with one reading is look at it from my perspective and note that I
would not have made that flight. Several reasons: Not instrument
rated (signed off for exam but have not taken it); I have no interest
in rough as heck IMC conditions or anything that approaches bad
convective activity; I hate severe turbulence; None of the above are
worth it for Las Vegas (been there once).

This morning I was to go to Carlsbad NM to go to the caves. Someone
asked why I was going on a beautiful day instead of when it was worse
weather. My reply: "Because I am a wuss."

Cancelled the trip due to a rough running engine but the flight should
have been the opposite of yours: Clear skies, no projected turbulence
and light forecasted winds at the destination. I still plan on
getting there and make a PIREP.posting on it but it will neither be as
"interesting" a flight nor as eloquent prose.

Ron Lee

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