Blue Angels Question(s) [Archive]

three-eight-hotel

March 23rd 06, 02:50 PM

Our family went to the airshow in northern California last weekend. It
was a blast, to say the least. It blows me away to think about the
things people can do with planes and that they can have the
where-with-all to pull off some of the manuvers they do, and under the
G's they are pulling at times!

The Blue Angels were incredible, as were the rest of the performers,
but I left the show, as I'm sure others did, scratching my head
wondering how they do some of the things they do without tragic
results.

I heard that in some of the tight formation flying, they get as close
as 18 inches to each other. If this is true, and I have no reason to
believe it isn't, I have to wonder if they ever bump into one another?
If they were to bump into one another, would that be catastrophic, or
would they merely make contact and separate back into position? They
are all flying in the same direction, and at the same speed, so it's
conceivable that contact could be farily incidental.

Another question I had was regarding two Angels flying in opposite
directions and crossing by each other at a combined speed of 800 mph.
Do they have equipment on board that gives them precise situational
awareness, or do they use ground references? My thought was that one
of them could be lined up to fly right down the runway center-line, and
the other could line up just outside the runway which should guarantee
separation??? Their timing, so that they cross right at midfield is
amazing!

They put on an incredible show, and I'm glad my kids got a chance to
see them. I hadn't seen them in about 20 years, so I forgot how much
fun they were to watch.

Best Regards,
Todd

Paul Tomblin

March 23rd 06, 03:42 PM

In a previous article, "three-eight-hotel" > said:
>as 18 inches to each other. If this is true, and I have no reason to
>believe it isn't, I have to wonder if they ever bump into one another?

A few months ago two Thunderbirds made contact, and one knocked the
missile rail off the other. Nobody was hurt and everybody landed
successfully.

>awareness, or do they use ground references? My thought was that one
>of them could be lined up to fly right down the runway center-line, and
>the other could line up just outside the runway which should guarantee
>separation??? Their timing, so that they cross right at midfield is
>amazing!

Snowbirds usually use the two edges of the runway.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story
about a guy named `Manual'" - Dilbert

[email protected]

March 23rd 06, 05:25 PM

My impression is that slight contact during the tight formations is not
all that uncommon, and not generally a real problem - Just a bit of
touch-up painting required now and then ;o)

As far as the opposing pass maneuver, the aircraft are not lined up
horizontally, which is not really evident from the crowd line. Thus,
when they pass, they actually appear much closer than they really are.
Of course, at a closure rate of 1000mph, it wouldn't take much of a
mistake to turn tragic...

The midfield crossing maneuvers are done with a combination of site
reference points, speed control, and radio calls (from the flight
"Boss" flying plane #1). Presumably, all aircraft are flying at the
same speed, in different directions away from show center. At a
designated time/location, "Boss" makes a radio call so that all
aircraft climb (again, at a designated rate). Another radio call
signals the break at the top, where all aircraft decend toward show
center, again at identical speeds. If all goes well, they cross (at
slightly different altitudes) at show center. I've seen them get it
right, and I've seen them get it no-quite-right. :o)

Radio calls are used throughout the show, between the 2 "solo's" and
the diamond-guys, mostly from "Boss" - "Smoke on, ready, now" -- "Smoke
off, ready, now" "Up we go... a little more pull" "coming by show
center!" "prepare for the left echelon roll..." etc... etc... etc...

Get a radio scanner that can pick up military air frequencies, and
enjoy the show with a whole new perspective!

Regards,
Pat

Dudley Henriques

March 23rd 06, 05:26 PM

Yes, they do "bump" once in a while in the formation. There have been
numerous sheet metal "benders" through the years. Naturally, these are
wingtip hits laterally rather than nose hits :-) I remember one of these
occasions quite vividly during the 73 season.
The flow patterns in the diamond are unique to close proximity similar
aircraft. I say similar because in a close Diamond of dis-similar aircraft,
the flow patterns would not be as predictable.
Tip vortices on the left and right wing positions in close tend to cause a
roll away from the opposite aircraft and have to be countered. You can
really feel this as you get in close.
Lead and the slot position have their trim affected as the slot sticks his
nose in where it should be. Lead can actually "feel" the slot in position
and knows by his trim change if the slot slides out too far. The trim change
is nose down for the lead and nose up for the slot, again caused by the flow
patterns.
It's not nearly as smooth in the Diamond as it looks to you from the ground.
There is a lot of movement going on in the formation, especially through
rough air. It takes intense concentration to hold position.
On the cross over question. They use pre-selected hack and checkpoints
briefed by photo recon before the show as well as radio calls when visual.
Timing on the high show bomb burst is a hack call down from lead to the
split S pull on his cadence. There is a visual call by each opposing
aircraft (lead/slot) (left/right wings) and adjustments made during the
downside recovery for altitude and airspeed to seek co-cross at show center.
Naturally, both sides of the runway are used. It saves a hell of a lot of
sheet metal work after the show :-)
Hope this helps a bit.
Dudley Henriques

"three-eight-hotel" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Our family went to the airshow in northern California last weekend. It
> was a blast, to say the least. It blows me away to think about the
> things people can do with planes and that they can have the
> where-with-all to pull off some of the manuvers they do, and under the
> G's they are pulling at times!
>
> The Blue Angels were incredible, as were the rest of the performers,
> but I left the show, as I'm sure others did, scratching my head
> wondering how they do some of the things they do without tragic
> results.
>
> I heard that in some of the tight formation flying, they get as close
> as 18 inches to each other. If this is true, and I have no reason to
> believe it isn't, I have to wonder if they ever bump into one another?
> If they were to bump into one another, would that be catastrophic, or
> would they merely make contact and separate back into position? They
> are all flying in the same direction, and at the same speed, so it's
> conceivable that contact could be farily incidental.
>
> Another question I had was regarding two Angels flying in opposite
> directions and crossing by each other at a combined speed of 800 mph.
> Do they have equipment on board that gives them precise situational
> awareness, or do they use ground references? My thought was that one
> of them could be lined up to fly right down the runway center-line, and
> the other could line up just outside the runway which should guarantee
> separation??? Their timing, so that they cross right at midfield is
> amazing!
>
> They put on an incredible show, and I'm glad my kids got a chance to
> see them. I hadn't seen them in about 20 years, so I forgot how much
> fun they were to watch.
>
> Best Regards,
> Todd
>

Peter Duniho

March 23rd 06, 05:52 PM

"three-eight-hotel" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> [...]
> I heard that in some of the tight formation flying, they get as close
> as 18 inches to each other. If this is true, and I have no reason to
> believe it isn't, I have to wonder if they ever bump into one another?
> If they were to bump into one another, would that be catastrophic, or
> would they merely make contact and separate back into position? They
> are all flying in the same direction, and at the same speed, so it's
> conceivable that contact could be farily incidental.

A slight bump may just ding up the paint a little. Harder bumps may damage
something without affecting flight characteristics. Of course, really bad
bumps can kill all pilots involved.

The fact is, bumps do happen but very occasionally. In spite of the close
quarters, the pilots are VERY good at what they do, and even when they are
18 inches apart, practically never touch each other. If they do, it's
almost never more than a glancing blow.

> Another question I had was regarding two Angels flying in opposite
> directions and crossing by each other at a combined speed of 800 mph.
> Do they have equipment on board that gives them precise situational
> awareness, or do they use ground references?

All of their maneuvers are done by outside visual reference, either to a
ground reference or to the formation.

Of course, in the case of head-on passes, they fly the airplanes quite a bit
farther from each other than it appears to be on the ground. As you note,
in addition to being separated laterally, it takes a great deal of skill and
planning to arrive at show center at precisely the same time. IMHO, that
part is probably harder than keeping the airplanes from hitting each other.

Pete

Jim Macklin

March 23rd 06, 06:28 PM

I read somewhere that during the Korean war, a wounded
plane/ pilot was kept on course to a water bail-out by
bumping the wing to keep the wings level. Any truth to
that?

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in
message
ink.net...
| Yes, they do "bump" once in a while in the formation.
There have been
| numerous sheet metal "benders" through the years.
Naturally, these are
| wingtip hits laterally rather than nose hits :-) I
remember one of these
| occasions quite vividly during the 73 season.
| The flow patterns in the diamond are unique to close
proximity similar
| aircraft. I say similar because in a close Diamond of
dis-similar aircraft,
| the flow patterns would not be as predictable.
| Tip vortices on the left and right wing positions in close
tend to cause a
| roll away from the opposite aircraft and have to be
countered. You can
| really feel this as you get in close.
| Lead and the slot position have their trim affected as the
slot sticks his
| nose in where it should be. Lead can actually "feel" the
slot in position
| and knows by his trim change if the slot slides out too
far. The trim change
| is nose down for the lead and nose up for the slot, again
caused by the flow
| patterns.
| It's not nearly as smooth in the Diamond as it looks to
you from the ground.
| There is a lot of movement going on in the formation,
especially through
| rough air. It takes intense concentration to hold
position.
| On the cross over question. They use pre-selected hack and
checkpoints
| briefed by photo recon before the show as well as radio
calls when visual.
| Timing on the high show bomb burst is a hack call down
from lead to the
| split S pull on his cadence. There is a visual call by
each opposing
| aircraft (lead/slot) (left/right wings) and adjustments
made during the
| downside recovery for altitude and airspeed to seek
co-cross at show center.
| Naturally, both sides of the runway are used. It saves a
hell of a lot of
| sheet metal work after the show :-)
| Hope this helps a bit.
| Dudley Henriques
|
|
|
| "three-eight-hotel" > wrote in
message
|
ups.com...
| > Our family went to the airshow in northern California
last weekend. It
| > was a blast, to say the least. It blows me away to
think about the
| > things people can do with planes and that they can have
the
| > where-with-all to pull off some of the manuvers they do,
and under the
| > G's they are pulling at times!
| >
| > The Blue Angels were incredible, as were the rest of the
performers,
| > but I left the show, as I'm sure others did, scratching
my head
| > wondering how they do some of the things they do without
tragic
| > results.
| >
| > I heard that in some of the tight formation flying, they
get as close
| > as 18 inches to each other. If this is true, and I have
no reason to
| > believe it isn't, I have to wonder if they ever bump
into one another?
| > If they were to bump into one another, would that be
catastrophic, or
| > would they merely make contact and separate back into
position? They
| > are all flying in the same direction, and at the same
speed, so it's
| > conceivable that contact could be farily incidental.
| >
| > Another question I had was regarding two Angels flying
in opposite
| > directions and crossing by each other at a combined
speed of 800 mph.
| > Do they have equipment on board that gives them precise
situational
| > awareness, or do they use ground references? My thought
was that one
| > of them could be lined up to fly right down the runway
center-line, and
| > the other could line up just outside the runway which
should guarantee
| > separation??? Their timing, so that they cross right at
midfield is
| > amazing!
| >
| > They put on an incredible show, and I'm glad my kids got
a chance to
| > see them. I hadn't seen them in about 20 years, so I
forgot how much
| > fun they were to watch.
| >
| > Best Regards,
| > Todd
| >
|
|

Dudley Henriques

March 23rd 06, 06:52 PM

Sounds like Bob Pardo's little "adventure" in Viet Nam. He lives out in
Colorado today.
Bob literally "pushed" Earl Aman's damaged F4 most of the way home with his
own F4's windshield by getting Earl to lower the tailhook and snagging it on
the base of his own windshield.
Truly a magnificent feat.
I think Aman still lives out near San Antonio last I heard.
Don't know about Korea. There was a story that came out of Korea involving
two pilots flying F9F's when one talked the other back to the carrier.
Mitchner did a story on it. "Men of the Fighting Lady" with Van Johnson and
Dewy Martin as the two pilots involved.
Dudley

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:BNBUf.452$t22.204@dukeread08...
>I read somewhere that during the Korean war, a wounded
> plane/ pilot was kept on course to a water bail-out by
> bumping the wing to keep the wings level. Any truth to
> that?
>
>
>
> --
> The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
> But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
> some support
> http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
> See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.
>
>
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in
> message
> ink.net...
> | Yes, they do "bump" once in a while in the formation.
> There have been
> | numerous sheet metal "benders" through the years.
> Naturally, these are
> | wingtip hits laterally rather than nose hits :-) I
> remember one of these
> | occasions quite vividly during the 73 season.
> | The flow patterns in the diamond are unique to close
> proximity similar
> | aircraft. I say similar because in a close Diamond of
> dis-similar aircraft,
> | the flow patterns would not be as predictable.
> | Tip vortices on the left and right wing positions in close
> tend to cause a
> | roll away from the opposite aircraft and have to be
> countered. You can
> | really feel this as you get in close.
> | Lead and the slot position have their trim affected as the
> slot sticks his
> | nose in where it should be. Lead can actually "feel" the
> slot in position
> | and knows by his trim change if the slot slides out too
> far. The trim change
> | is nose down for the lead and nose up for the slot, again
> caused by the flow
> | patterns.
> | It's not nearly as smooth in the Diamond as it looks to
> you from the ground.
> | There is a lot of movement going on in the formation,
> especially through
> | rough air. It takes intense concentration to hold
> position.
> | On the cross over question. They use pre-selected hack and
> checkpoints
> | briefed by photo recon before the show as well as radio
> calls when visual.
> | Timing on the high show bomb burst is a hack call down
> from lead to the
> | split S pull on his cadence. There is a visual call by
> each opposing
> | aircraft (lead/slot) (left/right wings) and adjustments
> made during the
> | downside recovery for altitude and airspeed to seek
> co-cross at show center.
> | Naturally, both sides of the runway are used. It saves a
> hell of a lot of
> | sheet metal work after the show :-)
> | Hope this helps a bit.
> | Dudley Henriques
> |
> |
> |
> | "three-eight-hotel" > wrote in
> message
> |
> ups.com...
> | > Our family went to the airshow in northern California
> last weekend. It
> | > was a blast, to say the least. It blows me away to
> think about the
> | > things people can do with planes and that they can have
> the
> | > where-with-all to pull off some of the manuvers they do,
> and under the
> | > G's they are pulling at times!
> | >
> | > The Blue Angels were incredible, as were the rest of the
> performers,
> | > but I left the show, as I'm sure others did, scratching
> my head
> | > wondering how they do some of the things they do without
> tragic
> | > results.
> | >
> | > I heard that in some of the tight formation flying, they
> get as close
> | > as 18 inches to each other. If this is true, and I have
> no reason to
> | > believe it isn't, I have to wonder if they ever bump
> into one another?
> | > If they were to bump into one another, would that be
> catastrophic, or
> | > would they merely make contact and separate back into
> position? They
> | > are all flying in the same direction, and at the same
> speed, so it's
> | > conceivable that contact could be farily incidental.
> | >
> | > Another question I had was regarding two Angels flying
> in opposite
> | > directions and crossing by each other at a combined
> speed of 800 mph.
> | > Do they have equipment on board that gives them precise
> situational
> | > awareness, or do they use ground references? My thought
> was that one
> | > of them could be lined up to fly right down the runway
> center-line, and
> | > the other could line up just outside the runway which
> should guarantee
> | > separation??? Their timing, so that they cross right at
> midfield is
> | > amazing!
> | >
> | > They put on an incredible show, and I'm glad my kids got
> a chance to
> | > see them. I hadn't seen them in about 20 years, so I
> forgot how much
> | > fun they were to watch.
> | >
> | > Best Regards,
> | > Todd
> | >
> |
> |
>
>

Jim Macklin

March 23rd 06, 07:02 PM

Dudley Henriques

March 23rd 06, 07:25 PM

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:4jCUf.456$t22.106@dukeread08...
> I've seen that movie, a good one. Also a movie, Hunters
> with F86.
>
> Bridges at Toko Ri is good too.

I have a great affinity for "God is My Co-Pilot" naturally, as I knew Scotty
personally, but my all time favorite air movie has to be "12'o'clock High",
and strangely enough, it's not the air sequences I liked so much in the
film.
The opening sequence with Dean Jagger, the mug, the bicycle, the fence, the
airfield, then the flashback, has to be one of the finest segway sequences
ever filmed. The ending as well, coming back to the present with Jagger
leaving as he came in on the bike truly put a master's touch of film making
on this picture.
Dudley

Jim Macklin

March 23rd 06, 08:11 PM

I dated a girl whose father was a bombardier with that
group. They just ran God is my Co-pilot" a week or so ago.

For the flying movies though, Island in the Sky may be my
favorite, even if John Wayne looks like he's sawing wood
with the ailerons. Andy Devine was perfect as was the rest
of the supporting crew. Some of the formation flights and
music are beautifully done.

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:4jCUf.456$t22.106@dukeread08...
| > I've seen that movie, a good one. Also a movie, Hunters
| > with F86.
| >
| > Bridges at Toko Ri is good too.
|
| I have a great affinity for "God is My Co-Pilot"
naturally, as I knew Scotty
| personally, but my all time favorite air movie has to be
"12'o'clock High",
| and strangely enough, it's not the air sequences I liked
so much in the
| film.
| The opening sequence with Dean Jagger, the mug, the
bicycle, the fence, the
| airfield, then the flashback, has to be one of the finest
segway sequences
| ever filmed. The ending as well, coming back to the
present with Jagger
| leaving as he came in on the bike truly put a master's
touch of film making
| on this picture.
| Dudley
|
|

Paul Tomblin

March 23rd 06, 08:54 PM

Warning: Lame spelling joke follows.

In a previous article, "Dudley Henriques" > said:
>The opening sequence with Dean Jagger, the mug, the bicycle, the fence, the
>airfield, then the flashback, has to be one of the finest segway sequences
>ever filmed. The ending as well, coming back to the present with Jagger

No, it was a bicycle, not a Segway. Segways weren't even invented back
when this was filmed (http://www.segway.com/). Perhaps you mean "segue"?

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
[Y]ou should write for the comprehension of the next programmer who
looks at your code, keep it clean and sensible, and *not* play
any obscure Jedi mind-tricks. -- Anthony de Boer

Dudley Henriques

March 23rd 06, 09:20 PM

Yeah, Devine sure played some "out of character" parts didn't he :-)
Picture him as an over fed Arab in "Ali Baba and the Forty Theives" :-)
The absolute best out of character pilot for me has to be Slim Pickins with
a Texas accent pushing that 52 in "Strangelove". Now THAT was funny!!
Dudley

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:dnDUf.474$t22.310@dukeread08...
>I dated a girl whose father was a bombardier with that
> group. They just ran God is my Co-pilot" a week or so ago.
>
> For the flying movies though, Island in the Sky may be my
> favorite, even if John Wayne looks like he's sawing wood
> with the ailerons. Andy Devine was perfect as was the rest
> of the supporting crew. Some of the formation flights and
> music are beautifully done.
>
>
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in
> message
> ink.net...
> |
> | "Jim Macklin" > wrote
> in message
> | news:4jCUf.456$t22.106@dukeread08...
> | > I've seen that movie, a good one. Also a movie, Hunters
> | > with F86.
> | >
> | > Bridges at Toko Ri is good too.
> |
> | I have a great affinity for "God is My Co-Pilot"
> naturally, as I knew Scotty
> | personally, but my all time favorite air movie has to be
> "12'o'clock High",
> | and strangely enough, it's not the air sequences I liked
> so much in the
> | film.
> | The opening sequence with Dean Jagger, the mug, the
> bicycle, the fence, the
> | airfield, then the flashback, has to be one of the finest
> segway sequences
> | ever filmed. The ending as well, coming back to the
> present with Jagger
> | leaving as he came in on the bike truly put a master's
> touch of film making
> | on this picture.
> | Dudley
> |
> |
>
>

Dudley Henriques

March 23rd 06, 09:26 PM

LOL!!! :-)
Dammit Paul, I always suspected there was a right way to spell that damn
word. Just never bothered to look it up!! :-)))
Come to think of it, Jagger riding in on a Segway just might have spoiled
the mood a bit!!!
D

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> Warning: Lame spelling joke follows.
>
> In a previous article, "Dudley Henriques" > said:
>>The opening sequence with Dean Jagger, the mug, the bicycle, the fence,
>>the
>>airfield, then the flashback, has to be one of the finest segway sequences
>>ever filmed. The ending as well, coming back to the present with Jagger
>
> No, it was a bicycle, not a Segway. Segways weren't even invented back
> when this was filmed (http://www.segway.com/). Perhaps you mean "segue"?
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> [Y]ou should write for the comprehension of the next programmer who
> looks at your code, keep it clean and sensible, and *not* play
> any obscure Jedi mind-tricks. -- Anthony de Boer

Jim Macklin

March 23rd 06, 09:37 PM

Jim Macklin

March 23rd 06, 09:40 PM

Jim Macklin

March 23rd 06, 09:41 PM

Orval Fairbairn

March 23rd 06, 09:51 PM

In article et>,
"Dudley Henriques" > wrote:

> LOL!!! :-)
> Dammit Paul, I always suspected there was a right way to spell that damn
> word. Just never bothered to look it up!! :-)))
> Come to think of it, Jagger riding in on a Segway just might have spoiled
> the mood a bit!!!
> D

Mick Jagger on a Segway might be more believable!

three-eight-hotel

March 23rd 06, 10:08 PM

Thanks guys, for the responses! A couple of those nagging questions,
I've always wanted to ask...

I'm not a photographer, nor do I play one on T.V., but I did take a few
pictures, a couple of which I have made available... I've seen much
better, taken by much higher quality equipment, but for a point and
click camera I'm happy with what I've got.

http://thepetersonranch.com/angels.php

Take a look at the second picture, which prompted one of my questions.
I got completely lucky on the timing of the picture, but I was amazed
at how close the planes appear to be, and further more, how well they
are lined up! The last one shows a pretty tight formation (I don't
know about 18 inches, but tighter than I would feel comfortable with!
;-)

Best Regards,
Todd

Dudley Henriques

March 23rd 06, 10:26 PM

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:6CEUf.487$t22.333@dukeread08...
> Another Dean Jagger film, The Dam Busters.

Paul Brickhill wrote the story. I think Guy Gibson wrote an earlier book
before he was KIA in 44. Just 2 years after Brickhill's book on the Busters
he wrote the bio of one of my closest friends from the old Fellowship,
Douglas Bader.
I don't believe Jagger was in the DB movie though. I could be mistaken, but
I don't remember him as being in the cast.
Dudley

Dudley Henriques

March 23rd 06, 10:31 PM

"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
...
> In article et>,
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote:
>
>> LOL!!! :-)
>> Dammit Paul, I always suspected there was a right way to spell that damn
>> word. Just never bothered to look it up!! :-)))
>> Come to think of it, Jagger riding in on a Segway just might have spoiled
>> the mood a bit!!!
>> D
>
> Mick Jagger on a Segway might be more believable!

Hi Orville;
Dammit, I missed you again. Just got back this week from Ormond Beach.
Completely forgot about Spruce Creek would you believe it??

I think Mick's tied up doing something else right now. Last I heard, he was
renting himself out as a pop up face to help people get rid of the hiccups
:-))
Dudley

Jim Macklin

March 23rd 06, 10:34 PM

My mistake, Redgrave played Barnes Wallis, not Jagger.

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:6CEUf.487$t22.333@dukeread08...
| > Another Dean Jagger film, The Dam Busters.
|
| Paul Brickhill wrote the story. I think Guy Gibson wrote
an earlier book
| before he was KIA in 44. Just 2 years after Brickhill's
book on the Busters
| he wrote the bio of one of my closest friends from the old
Fellowship,
| Douglas Bader.
| I don't believe Jagger was in the DB movie though. I could
be mistaken, but
| I don't remember him as being in the cast.
| Dudley
|
|

Dudley Henriques

March 23rd 06, 10:39 PM

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:JnFUf.498$t22.114@dukeread08...
> My mistake, Redgrave played Barnes Wallis, not Jagger.

Wallace was completely broken up by the loss of lives on the raid. He was
actually a very plain and simple man who did his engineering thing and
apparently never really thought about the possible cost in lives.
Bader told me it hit him very hard and he never really got over it.
Dudley

Dudley Henriques

March 23rd 06, 10:42 PM

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:eBEUf.485$t22.266@dukeread08...
> Speaking of Dean Jagger, anybody see X, The Unknown?

A mud monster in Kilts? I'll wait for the Garfield sequel :-)))
Dudley

Jim Macklin

March 24th 06, 12:40 AM

I think that came through pretty well in the movie. Did you
see the History Channel recently about his earthquake bombs?

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:JnFUf.498$t22.114@dukeread08...
| > My mistake, Redgrave played Barnes Wallis, not Jagger.
|
| Wallace was completely broken up by the loss of lives on
the raid. He was
| actually a very plain and simple man who did his
engineering thing and
| apparently never really thought about the possible cost in
lives.
| Bader told me it hit him very hard and he never really got
over it.
| Dudley
|
|

Peter Duniho

March 24th 06, 12:41 AM

"three-eight-hotel" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> [...]
> Take a look at the second picture, which prompted one of my questions.
> I got completely lucky on the timing of the picture, but I was amazed
> at how close the planes appear to be [...]

The airplanes are very close.

That said, some optical illusions help with the drama. At a distance,
everything essentially looks 2D. A camera's zoom lens emphasizes this.
Your eye, or the camera's, is not able to differentiate between two objects
18 inches apart versus 18 feet apart versus (at far enough away, say a half
mile or so) 180 feet, as long as those distances are along your line of
sight (obviously you can do better with lateral distances). There's just no
depth perception, and not enough perspective to tell the difference.

This is especially a significant effect for the head-on fly-bys. In
formation, the airplanes really are that close, but when flying head-on they
don't need to be all that close for the viewer to still perceive them as
being very close.

Pete

Jim Macklin

March 24th 06, 12:41 AM

Radioactive slime, sort of like the Blob but more like
oatmeal. Not really a bad movie, but a waste of good
actors.

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in
message
nk.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:eBEUf.485$t22.266@dukeread08...
| > Speaking of Dean Jagger, anybody see X, The Unknown?
|
| A mud monster in Kilts? I'll wait for the Garfield sequel
:-)))
| Dudley
|
|

Dudley Henriques

March 24th 06, 12:55 AM

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:hfHUf.532$t22.213@dukeread08...
>I think that came through pretty well in the movie. Did you
> see the History Channel recently about his earthquake bombs?

No. Been on vacation, but most anything the HC does is solid work.
D

Dudley Henriques

March 24th 06, 01:00 AM

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:lfHUf.533$t22.346@dukeread08...
> Radioactive slime, sort of like the Blob but more like
> oatmeal. Not really a bad movie, but a waste of good
> actors.

I can just see myself pitching this one to my wife at Blockbusters!
"Yo Hon....let's get this one! It's got everything.........radioactive
slime.........a blob thing...........and something that looks like
oatmeal!................"
"Hon.......................hon..................... ...did anyone see my wife
leave?"

:-))
Dudley

Orval Fairbairn

March 24th 06, 01:17 AM

In article et>,
"Dudley Henriques" > wrote:

> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article et>,
> > "Dudley Henriques" > wrote:
> >
> >> LOL!!! :-)
> >> Dammit Paul, I always suspected there was a right way to spell that damn
> >> word. Just never bothered to look it up!! :-)))
> >> Come to think of it, Jagger riding in on a Segway just might have spoiled
> >> the mood a bit!!!
> >> D
> >
> > Mick Jagger on a Segway might be more believable!
>
> Hi Orville;
> Dammit, I missed you again. Just got back this week from Ormond Beach.
> Completely forgot about Spruce Creek would you believe it??
>
> I think Mick's tied up doing something else right now. Last I heard, he was
> renting himself out as a pop up face to help people get rid of the hiccups
> :-))
> Dudley

Well, Dudley, make sure that you are around here for a Saturday fly-out
to breakfast. You can fly with me or one of the other characters here.

Wizard of Draws

March 24th 06, 01:21 AM

On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
> wrote:

> Yes, they do "bump" once in a while in the formation. There have been
> numerous sheet metal "benders" through the years. Naturally, these are
> wingtip hits laterally rather than nose hits :-) I remember one of these
> occasions quite vividly during the 73 season.
> The flow patterns in the diamond are unique to close proximity similar
> aircraft. I say similar because in a close Diamond of dis-similar aircraft,
> the flow patterns would not be as predictable.
> Tip vortices on the left and right wing positions in close tend to cause a
> roll away from the opposite aircraft and have to be countered. You can
> really feel this as you get in close.
> Lead and the slot position have their trim affected as the slot sticks his
> nose in where it should be. Lead can actually "feel" the slot in position
> and knows by his trim change if the slot slides out too far. The trim change
> is nose down for the lead and nose up for the slot, again caused by the flow
> patterns.
> It's not nearly as smooth in the Diamond as it looks to you from the ground.
> There is a lot of movement going on in the formation, especially through
> rough air. It takes intense concentration to hold position.
> On the cross over question. They use pre-selected hack and checkpoints
> briefed by photo recon before the show as well as radio calls when visual.
> Timing on the high show bomb burst is a hack call down from lead to the
> split S pull on his cadence. There is a visual call by each opposing
> aircraft (lead/slot) (left/right wings) and adjustments made during the
> downside recovery for altitude and airspeed to seek co-cross at show center.
> Naturally, both sides of the runway are used. It saves a hell of a lot of
> sheet metal work after the show :-)
> Hope this helps a bit.
> Dudley Henriques
>

My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Jim Macklin

March 24th 06, 01:26 AM

Flight of the Phoenix with Jimmy Stewart. Avoid the modern
version with the same title.

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:lfHUf.533$t22.346@dukeread08...
| > Radioactive slime, sort of like the Blob but more like
| > oatmeal. Not really a bad movie, but a waste of good
| > actors.
|
| I can just see myself pitching this one to my wife at
Blockbusters!
| "Yo Hon....let's get this one! It's got
everything.........radioactive
| slime.........a blob thing...........and something that
looks like
| oatmeal!................"
| "Hon.......................hon..................... ...did
anyone see my wife
| leave?"
|
| :-))
| Dudley
|
|

Dudley Henriques

March 24th 06, 01:43 AM

"Wizard of Draws" > wrote in message
news:C048B3AD.6AC96%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
> On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
> et, "Dudley Henriques"
> > wrote:
> My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
> synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems
> to
> me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
> micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
> available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on
> Bird1
> is _exactly_ the same as every other?
> --
> Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Formation that tight isn't done by an engine setting per se. It's done by
relative motion. For example, lead always "gives up" a few % in RPM as his
full throttle position to give some play percentage wise to the lowest power
setting in the formation. There's always a few RPM for the slot and 2 wings
to use if they need it.
As to holding position, it's done by relative motion on a single position ,
usually lead in the Diamond. Lead sets the power and everybody does whatever
it takes to hold position. There is a set line of sight for each position
called a "paint" that coincides with a direct position line to that spot on
another aircraft. Power is adjusted to maintain that paint. No attention is
paid to what percent RPM is required to do that. It could very well vary
from position to position. The only thing that's important is that lead is
off the throttle enough that the slowest plane (RPM wise) in the formation,
has the excess power spread to hold the position.
There's a WHOLE lot going on with all this that the public never sees or
hears. Flying a 20 minute show for these guys is just about the same
physical effort as playing an entire football game as a pro...BOTH ways!
And this doesn't even get into the mental strain!
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques

March 24th 06, 01:45 AM

We're going down again next spring. Our son has a time share at the Royal
Floridian on A1A just below Granada. If you think of it sometime, send me
the phone number back channel and I'll try not to lose it this time :-)
Dudley

"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
...
> In article et>,
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote:
>
>> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article et>,
>> > "Dudley Henriques" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> LOL!!! :-)
>> >> Dammit Paul, I always suspected there was a right way to spell that
>> >> damn
>> >> word. Just never bothered to look it up!! :-)))
>> >> Come to think of it, Jagger riding in on a Segway just might have
>> >> spoiled
>> >> the mood a bit!!!
>> >> D
>> >
>> > Mick Jagger on a Segway might be more believable!
>>
>> Hi Orville;
>> Dammit, I missed you again. Just got back this week from Ormond Beach.
>> Completely forgot about Spruce Creek would you believe it??
>>
>> I think Mick's tied up doing something else right now. Last I heard, he
>> was
>> renting himself out as a pop up face to help people get rid of the
>> hiccups
>> :-))
>> Dudley
>
> Well, Dudley, make sure that you are around here for a Saturday fly-out
> to breakfast. You can fly with me or one of the other characters here.

Jon Woellhaf

March 24th 06, 01:53 AM

Dudley,

I thought your comments about formation flying were very interesting. Please
tell us more!

Jon

Dudley Henriques

March 24th 06, 01:55 AM

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:jXHUf.544$t22.197@dukeread08...
> Flight of the Phoenix with Jimmy Stewart. Avoid the modern
> version with the same title.

The scene when Stewart and Attenborough find out Kruger is a model airplane
designer is worth the price of admission :-)))
Dudley

Dudley Henriques

March 24th 06, 02:19 AM

"Jon Woellhaf" > wrote in message
. ..
> Dudley,
>
> I thought your comments about formation flying were very interesting.
> Please tell us more!
>
> Jon

Thank you very much for the kind comment.
Formation flying is a whole new world of information. If it's ok, I'd rather
simply answer a few specific questions when I can then ramble on aimlessly
about such a complicated issue :-))
Dudley Henriques

Wizard of Draws

March 24th 06, 02:37 AM

On 3/23/06 8:43 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
> wrote:

>
> "Wizard of Draws" > wrote in message
> news:C048B3AD.6AC96%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
>> On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
>> et, "Dudley Henriques"
>> > wrote:
>> My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
>> synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems
>> to
>> me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
>> micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
>> available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on
>> Bird1
>> is _exactly_ the same as every other?
>> --
>> Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
>
> Formation that tight isn't done by an engine setting per se. It's done by
> relative motion. For example, lead always "gives up" a few % in RPM as his
> full throttle position to give some play percentage wise to the lowest power
> setting in the formation. There's always a few RPM for the slot and 2 wings
> to use if they need it.
> As to holding position, it's done by relative motion on a single position ,
> usually lead in the Diamond. Lead sets the power and everybody does whatever
> it takes to hold position. There is a set line of sight for each position
> called a "paint" that coincides with a direct position line to that spot on
> another aircraft. Power is adjusted to maintain that paint. No attention is
> paid to what percent RPM is required to do that. It could very well vary
> from position to position. The only thing that's important is that lead is
> off the throttle enough that the slowest plane (RPM wise) in the formation,
> has the excess power spread to hold the position.
> There's a WHOLE lot going on with all this that the public never sees or
> hears. Flying a 20 minute show for these guys is just about the same
> physical effort as playing an entire football game as a pro...BOTH ways!
> And this doesn't even get into the mental strain!
> Dudley Henriques
>
>
I appreciate your time sir. As a follow up, can I assume that there is no
"fine adjustment knob" to the throttle, and that the ease of movement with
respect to the throttle lever can be set to the pilot's preference?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Dudley Henriques

March 24th 06, 02:47 AM

Generally, you turn your left hand into a micrometer tool by solidly
planting the outside of your palm on the throttle base and using that as a
fulcrum to make extremely small adjustments in power setting. You don't want
to be jockeying around with the power all that much anyway. It's all very
subtle and gently done. Your eyes hardly ever go to the tach. As pilots
become accustomed to a position, it's possible to actually check instruments
and hold position peripherally when going inverted through the float at the
top of a loop for example. This is especially true for the slot.
Dudley Henriques

"Wizard of Draws" > wrote in message
news:C048C595.6B308%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
> On 3/23/06 8:43 PM, in article
> et, "Dudley Henriques"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Wizard of Draws" > wrote in message
>> news:C048B3AD.6AC96%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
>>> On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
>>> et, "Dudley Henriques"
>>> > wrote:
>>> My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
>>> synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It
>>> seems
>>> to
>>> me that small variations would have to creep into their engines,
>>> requiring
>>> micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
>>> available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on
>>> Bird1
>>> is _exactly_ the same as every other?
>>> --
>>> Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
>>
>> Formation that tight isn't done by an engine setting per se. It's done by
>> relative motion. For example, lead always "gives up" a few % in RPM as
>> his
>> full throttle position to give some play percentage wise to the lowest
>> power
>> setting in the formation. There's always a few RPM for the slot and 2
>> wings
>> to use if they need it.
>> As to holding position, it's done by relative motion on a single position
>> ,
>> usually lead in the Diamond. Lead sets the power and everybody does
>> whatever
>> it takes to hold position. There is a set line of sight for each position
>> called a "paint" that coincides with a direct position line to that spot
>> on
>> another aircraft. Power is adjusted to maintain that paint. No attention
>> is
>> paid to what percent RPM is required to do that. It could very well vary
>> from position to position. The only thing that's important is that lead
>> is
>> off the throttle enough that the slowest plane (RPM wise) in the
>> formation,
>> has the excess power spread to hold the position.
>> There's a WHOLE lot going on with all this that the public never sees or
>> hears. Flying a 20 minute show for these guys is just about the same
>> physical effort as playing an entire football game as a pro...BOTH ways!
>> And this doesn't even get into the mental strain!
>> Dudley Henriques
>>
>>
> I appreciate your time sir. As a follow up, can I assume that there is no
> "fine adjustment knob" to the throttle, and that the ease of movement with
> respect to the throttle lever can be set to the pilot's preference?
> --
> Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
>
> Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
> http://www.wizardofdraws.com
>
> More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
> http://www.cartoonclipart.com
>

Orval Fairbairn

March 24th 06, 04:19 AM

In article >,
Wizard of Draws > wrote:

> On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
> et, "Dudley Henriques"
> > wrote:
>
> > Yes, they do "bump" once in a while in the formation. There have been
> > numerous sheet metal "benders" through the years. Naturally, these are
> > wingtip hits laterally rather than nose hits :-) I remember one of these
> > occasions quite vividly during the 73 season.
> > The flow patterns in the diamond are unique to close proximity similar
> > aircraft. I say similar because in a close Diamond of dis-similar aircraft,
> > the flow patterns would not be as predictable.
> > Tip vortices on the left and right wing positions in close tend to cause a
> > roll away from the opposite aircraft and have to be countered. You can
> > really feel this as you get in close.
> > Lead and the slot position have their trim affected as the slot sticks his
> > nose in where it should be. Lead can actually "feel" the slot in position
> > and knows by his trim change if the slot slides out too far. The trim change
> > is nose down for the lead and nose up for the slot, again caused by the flow
> > patterns.
> > It's not nearly as smooth in the Diamond as it looks to you from the ground.
> > There is a lot of movement going on in the formation, especially through
> > rough air. It takes intense concentration to hold position.
> > On the cross over question. They use pre-selected hack and checkpoints
> > briefed by photo recon before the show as well as radio calls when visual.
> > Timing on the high show bomb burst is a hack call down from lead to the
> > split S pull on his cadence. There is a visual call by each opposing
> > aircraft (lead/slot) (left/right wings) and adjustments made during the
> > downside recovery for altitude and airspeed to seek co-cross at show center.
> > Naturally, both sides of the runway are used. It saves a hell of a lot of
> > sheet metal work after the show :-)
> > Hope this helps a bit.
> > Dudley Henriques
> >
>
> My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
> synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems to
> me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
> micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
> available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on Bird1
> is _exactly_ the same as every other?

In tight formation you don't even LOOK inside the cockpit! you have
reference points on the other aircraft that you keep in line and make
adjustments with throttle -- very often macro adjustments, rather than
micro. All flights are flow according to the briefing -- and -- all
flights are debriefed ASAP.

Get hold of the T-34 Association's formation manual to help get up to
speed.

Jim Macklin

March 24th 06, 04:20 AM

Yes. The engine start is also worthwhile.

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:jXHUf.544$t22.197@dukeread08...
| > Flight of the Phoenix with Jimmy Stewart. Avoid the
modern
| > version with the same title.
|
| The scene when Stewart and Attenborough find out Kruger is
a model airplane
| designer is worth the price of admission :-)))
| Dudley
|
|

Matt Barrow

March 24th 06, 02:26 PM

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:4jCUf.456$t22.106@dukeread08...
> I've seen that movie, a good one. Also a movie, Hunters
> with F86.
>
If you think the movie was good, read the book -- ten times better than the
flik!

Matt Barrow

March 24th 06, 02:28 PM

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Yeah, Devine sure played some "out of character" parts didn't he :-)
> Picture him as an over fed Arab in "Ali Baba and the Forty Theives" :-)
> The absolute best out of character pilot for me has to be Slim Pickins
> with a Texas accent pushing that 52 in "Strangelove". Now THAT was funny!!
> Dudley

Watch "Strangelove", the immediately after, watch "Blazzing Saddles"; "How
'bout some more beans, Mr. Taggert?".

Matt Barrow

March 24th 06, 02:32 PM

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> I have a great affinity for "God is My Co-Pilot" naturally, as I knew
> Scotty personally, but my all time favorite air movie has to be
> "12'o'clock High", and strangely enough, it's not the air sequences I
> liked so much in the film.
> The opening sequence with Dean Jagger, the mug, the bicycle, the fence,
> the airfield, then the flashback, has to be one of the finest segway
> sequences ever filmed. The ending as well, coming back to the present with
> Jagger leaving as he came in on the bike truly put a master's touch of
> film making on this picture.

Good story, too; the USAF still uses it as a demonstration of strong
leadership.

Matt Barrow

March 24th 06, 02:40 PM

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message

>>
>> Mick Jagger on a Segway might be more believable!
>
> Hi Orville;
> Dammit, I missed you again. Just got back this week from Ormond Beach.
> Completely forgot about Spruce Creek would you believe it??
>
> I think Mick's tied up doing something else right now. Last I heard, he
> was renting himself out as a pop up face to help people get rid of the
> hiccups

What?, replace hiccups with a heart attack?

Jim Macklin

March 24th 06, 04:30 PM

Books are almost always better than a movie. Fate Is the
Hunter is a great book and a poor movie.

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:4jCUf.456$t22.106@dukeread08...
| > I've seen that movie, a good one. Also a movie, Hunters
| > with F86.
| >
| If you think the movie was good, read the book -- ten
times better than the
| flik!
|
|

GeorgeC

March 26th 06, 04:38 AM

Really! They still showing "God is My Co-Pilot"? The USAF show it to us at
Lackand back in 1955.

My CFI is joining the USAF for aviation training. It took almost all my self
control not give his some "good" advice. But, it made wonder how many tradition
survived. Do they sill through you in the water after your first solo? Do they
still square they meals? Do they still play tag around the clouds (mock
dogfight)? etc.

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:32:03 -0700, "Matt Barrow" >
wrote:

>
>"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>> I have a great affinity for "God is My Co-Pilot" naturally, as I knew
>> Scotty personally, but my all time favorite air movie has to be
>> "12'o'clock High", and strangely enough, it's not the air sequences I
>> liked so much in the film.
>> The opening sequence with Dean Jagger, the mug, the bicycle, the fence,
>> the airfield, then the flashback, has to be one of the finest segway
>> sequences ever filmed. The ending as well, coming back to the present with
>> Jagger leaving as he came in on the bike truly put a master's touch of
>> film making on this picture.
>
>Good story, too; the USAF still uses it as a demonstration of strong
>leadership.
>

GeorgeC

Matt Barrow

March 26th 06, 03:25 PM

"GeorgeC" > wrote in message
...
> Really! They still showing "God is My Co-Pilot"? The USAF show it to us
> at
> Lackand back in 1955.

12 o'clock High; I don't know about GiMCP.

>>"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>>> I have a great affinity for "God is My Co-Pilot" naturally, as I knew
>>> Scotty personally, but my all time favorite air movie has to be
>>> "12'o'clock High", and strangely enough, it's not the air sequences I
>>> liked so much in the film.
>>> The opening sequence with Dean Jagger, the mug, the bicycle, the fence,
>>> the airfield, then the flashback, has to be one of the finest segway
>>> sequences ever filmed. The ending as well, coming back to the present
>>> with
>>> Jagger leaving as he came in on the bike truly put a master's touch of
>>> film making on this picture.
>>
>>Good story, too; the USAF still uses it as a demonstration of strong
>>leadership.
>>
>
> GeorgeC

GeorgeC

March 26th 06, 06:41 PM

Errata. Change "God is My Co-Pilot" to "Twelve O'clock High"

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:38:51 -0600, GeorgeC > wrote:

>Really! They still showing "God is My Co-Pilot"? The USAF show it to us at
>Lackand back in 1955.
>
>My CFI is joining the USAF for aviation training. It took almost all my self
>control not give his some "good" advice. But, it made wonder how many tradition
>survived. Do they sill through you in the water after your first solo? Do they
>still square they meals? Do they still play tag around the clouds (mock
>dogfight)? etc.
>
>On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:32:03 -0700, "Matt Barrow" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>>> I have a great affinity for "God is My Co-Pilot" naturally, as I knew
>>> Scotty personally, but my all time favorite air movie has to be
>>> "12'o'clock High", and strangely enough, it's not the air sequences I
>>> liked so much in the film.
>>> The opening sequence with Dean Jagger, the mug, the bicycle, the fence,
>>> the airfield, then the flashback, has to be one of the finest segway
>>> sequences ever filmed. The ending as well, coming back to the present with
>>> Jagger leaving as he came in on the bike truly put a master's touch of
>>> film making on this picture.
>>
>>Good story, too; the USAF still uses it as a demonstration of strong
>>leadership.
>>
>
>GeorgeC

GeorgeC